Talk:List of German expressions in English/Archive 1

fahrvergnugen
wasn't it BMW's advertisement?


 * I think so Sebastian 00:47, 2005 Apr 10 (UTC)


 * no, it was volkswagen --213.39.161.22 11:19, 13 August 2005 (UTC)


 * wasn't it Fahrvergügen? (with ü)

Uncle Google would say now "Did you mean Fahrvergnügen? RF-Musiker 00:03 July 13, 2009 (CET)]]

Quartz
I added the note at 'quartz' about Slavic origin. Amer Her and "Breve diccionario etimológico de la lengua española" by Guido Gómez de Silva (ISBN 968-16-2812-8) both agree on this point.--Hraefen 19:13, 12 December 2005 (UTC)

Suggestions for new words
I don't know how common these words are, but they appeared in ordinary BBC news articles:
 * to abseil
 * Gummi (Gummi bear)

I'd ask all English native spreakers to put these words in the appropriate domain ('common' or 'specialised')


 * OK, it's called "gummy bear", and granted, that might be a folk etymology of Gummibär, but gummy is an English word (akin to gum) which btw. both English and German has borrowed from Late Latin "gummi" (English perhaps from French). All words that are similar in English and German aren't necessarily borrowings from German. 惑乱 分からん 10:20, 12 July 2006 (UTC)

Einstein quote: Word order
I changed "The Lord is subtle, but He is not malicious" to "Subtle is the Lord, but malicious He is not" for two reasons:


 * 1) The latter is much more commonly used to quote Einstein (note that the well-known Einstein biography by Abraham Pais is entitled Subtle is the Lord).
 * 2) "Raffiniert ist der Herrgott, aber boshaft ist er nicht" is not the standard word order in German. One would write "Der Herrgott ist raffiniert aber [er ist] nicht boshaft". By changing the word order Einstein put emphasis on subtle and malicious. This is reflected in the translation by using precisely the same means in English that Einstein used in English.

Perhaps the Einstein quote was contributed by a someone who was not aware that Einstein has not only been a famous scientist but also a master of subtle (look, that word again :-) formulations. -- 213.196.192.151 14:03, 13 September 2006 (UTC)

Merge proposal
List of German expressions in English and Wiktionary:Transwiki:List of German words and phrases heavily overlap. Which is not surprising, because they are updated often independently. This is a classicle example of a harmful article fork: waste of duplicated effort. `'mikka (t) 07:17, 13 September 2006 (UTC)
 * Oppose - Wiktionary:Transwiki:List of German words and phrases is purely alphabetically arranged, whereas List of German expressions in English seems to be topic based, with some exegesis. There's room for both, and both are useful. WLD 11:43, 9 October 2006 (UTC)

2007-02-7 Automated pywikipediabot message
--CopyToWiktionaryBot 08:45, 7 February 2007 (UTC)

Advertising campaigns
If Fahrvergnügen caused puzzlement in the US, what about the "Vorsprung durch Technik" Audi campaign in the UK ?
 * I noticed that in an advertisement we had to analyze in English class. At the time I didn't know what it meant, but I figured it had something to do with technology xD Ahh, I should have asked my fellow classmates what they thought of it. T'would have been useful..:Stirb Nicht Vor Mir:. 04:40, 21 May 2007 (UTC)

Waldsterben
Death for sterben isn't the correct translation, that would be dying. I have no experience with wiki, could someone else please correct this, thx.--85.177.239.247 23:51, 2 July 2007 (UTC)

City names and similar
To what extend is Hamburger, Frankfurter etc. etc. a use of German. If we go that way Levis (after all the name of a German tailor) would be a German expression. Gouda (cheese) a Dutch, Bordeaux (wine), a French, etc. etc. These words indicate their place of origin (or in the case of Levis creator), and have nothing to do with a language. I would suggest to remove all such words from the list. Arnoutf 11:52, 28 August 2007 (UTC)
 * I would support this.Rex 12:40, 28 August 2007 (UTC)

Help: since 10 years i try to find out what Grubenschnitzel means.
Is there any nativ english speaker who had ever heard the word "Grubenschnitzel" ? It sounds like a german loadword but ther is no Grubenschnitzel in germany at all. I´ve heard it in different context like military, food. Often i found the phrase: My limit on Grubenschnitzel is 12. Do anybody know anything abut this ?? sorry for my bad english

mfG Kurzi


 * Read this: (es hat keine Bedeutung es hört sich halt typisch deutsch an. ) Bye LanX--217.224.1.148 22:02, 4 October 2007 (UTC)

I´m german and i had never heard this word in my life before. I searched it on google and found this sentence: Grubenschnitzel sind Fleischscheiben, die anno 1908 von Archäologen bei Ausgrabungen zufällig gefunden wurden. Auf der Suche nach alten Münzen fand man in 3 Metern Tiefe an verschiedenen Stellen mumifizierte 3 cm dicke Fleischscheiben.

sorry- my englisch isnt´t good^^, i just learn it at school. but i try to say what a grubenschnitzel is:

it´s a years old piece of meat, found on a excavation

Merge with German loan words
German loan words is a rather similar article, but with a lower quality. Shouldn't it be merged into this one? --35.9.136.44 14:49, 11 October 2007 (UTC)

Military ranks
Do Major and General really belong here? Those articles don't mention a German origin - in fact, Major mentions an English one. --Mr2001 13:59, 10 February 2006 (UTC)

"Major" and "General" are German military ranks. But AFAIK they are rather of Latin origin than German.--Gr8tmir 23:26, 23 February 2006 (UTC)
 * They are both indeed of Latin origin and as such do not belong here, but this list suffers from that same problem in many words. But hey, go for it.--Hraefen 00:47, 24 February 2006 (UTC)

I suggest to delete categories "Military ranks" and "Noble titles" completely. IMHO they do not fit into this list. These terms are not used in english language in other ways but as untranslated german proper nouns. (Like tenno or tsar or shah as titles of emperors in other countries and languages.) I think nobody would call an ensign of the british or US or any other but the german armee Fähnrich.--131.130.122.144 00:01, 18 June 2006 (UTC)
 * I agree, many of the noble ranks only have wiki articles because German editors refuse to allow their language to be translated into English. If they are used in English they are exclusively used to refer to the German nobility, which constitutes more of a name than a real use as expression. Arnoutf 11:48, 28 August 2007 (UTC)


 * The words listed in the sections "Noble titles" and "Military ranks" do indeed not belong in an article "List of German expressions in English" because they are not. Each of these entries deserves an article in Wikipedia, which they have (except for the just added "Korporal", which exemplifies why none of these belongs here). I'm going to delete both sections. Michael Bednarek (talk) 12:27, 6 March 2008 (UTC)

Suggestions for yet another new word - schlep/schleppen
to schlep (drag or haul) - schleppen ( to carry something slowly, tediously, awkwardly)
 * "Schlep" is from Yiddish, not German... 惑乱 分からん 23:03, 11 July 2006 (UTC)
 * the way i understand it, meriam webster disagrees with you http://www.m-w.com/cgi-bin/dictionary?book=Dictionary&va=schlep
 * It does? "Schleppen" is a German word typically used in colloquial contexts. It entered English via Yiddish (which, of course, borrows heavily from German), where it is used more frequently than in modern German. --Stephan Schulz 09:33, 12 July 2006 (UTC)
 * Yeah, Meriam-Webster states that it comes from Yiddish, originally from the Low German dialectal continuum (Otherwise, it would be "schleffen", I think...) Btw, I wouldn't say that Yiddish "borrows heavily" from German, rather that since it has evolved from similar languages/dialects in the continuum, a huge amount of the vocabulary would naturally be similar. But, as far as I have interpreted the list, it should contain borrowings from Standard High German, (Yiddish has a separate page), not similar languages such as Yiddish, Low German, Afrikaans and Dutch... (It might include Swiss German "müsli", though, but that's an exception.) 惑乱 分からん 10:14, 12 July 2006 (UTC)
 * "schleppen" REALLY is a very commonly used verb in (modern) Standard High German like stated in the first comment. It is also commonly used as a noun, e.g. "Schlepper", meaning 1. either a machine designed to pull something e.g. a ship or a tractor or 2. as a professional who illegally helps immigrants to cross state borders (which is a very "modern" occupation :-). So in my opinion, to schlep DOES belong to the list. Olagorie 16:25, 13 July 2006 (UTC)
 * Yes, but the word is not used for these more common meanings in English. In English it is akin to "hauling", and implies physical effort. --Stephan Schulz 20:30, 13 July 2006 (UTC)
 * And, further EMPHASIZING the YIDDISH origin, it is, by definition, NOT a "German expression in English". Sorry to be harsh... 惑乱 分からん 23:43, 13 July 2006 (UTC)

I have to disagree with Wakuran here. 1) Yiddish is German. It's based on Middle High German dialects. Due to its history, it has a strong admixture of Hebrew (partly Aramaic) and, later, Slavonic lexems. Standard German doesn't do this article justice, as many, many expressions are regional in German. 2) 'Schleppen', as has been mentioned, is indeed regular Standard German. At least where I live, you can call a heavy laptop a 'Schlepptop'. Also, words of Yiddish (Hebrew) origin still abound in Modern German, varying according to region. I grew up with words like 'Schmiere stehen' = "stand guard" (when stealing apples as kids), the first element < Hebrew _shmirah_ 'watch, guard'. Another example is 'meschugge' < _meshugga'_ "crazy". There are dozens and dozens of "Yiddish" words in Modern German and it would be totally artificial to try to dissect German into 'Yiddish' vs 'Non-Yiddish'. Lastly, it should be noted that up until the end of WW2, Yiddish (and colloquial German) were always open for borrowings from Standard German. --Simha 11:10, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Still disagree. Yiddish is considered a different language than German, although they have many similarities, and if the word was not explicitly borrowed from German, it shouldn't be considered a "German expression in English", even if the word is commonly used in standard German. English words of Yiddish origin has a separate article... 惑乱 分からん 15:03, 13 November 2006 (UTC)

You may disagree, but it is an older German word: Middle High German slepen < Middle Low German slepen = schleifen, and, yes, although Yiddish is considered an independent and different language, it has adopted and adapted many originally German words. Where I do agree with you is that the English usage of "to schlepp" did indeed arrive via Yiddish "schleppen" mainly through its North American urban heritage, and not directly from modern High German. Dieter Simon (talk) 22:05, 10 March 2008 (UTC)

Döner kebab doesn't belong here
I am going to remove the entry for Döner kebab from this list. While it is a popular dish in Germany (but see also Döner kebab around the world), it is patently not a German word. After all, ćevapčići and spaghetti and dozens of other dishes are popular in Germany, but they, correctly, do not appear on this list. Michael Bednarek (talk) 12:07, 11 April 2008 (UTC)

K for "Capital" used because of German "Kapital"
You really will have to produce some sourced evidence that "K" is used because of German "Kapital" and not for convenience sake, maybe because "C" is used for something else. Yes, all the sources you cited use "K" for "Capital" but not why they are using it in this way. It is the reason why "K" is used in this way in English we need, rather than the fact that it is used. Otherwise the sources you cited mean nothing, for the non-economist. Dieter Simon (talk) 17:51, 10 April 2008 (UTC) After all English "capital" is pronounced "Kapit'l", as "c" followed by "a" is always pronounced "Ka".Dieter Simon (talk) 22:52, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Thank you, Michael Bednarek, that's what we wanted to see, source for "K" for "Kapital". Brilliant. Dieter Simon (talk) 17:29, 11 April 2008 (UTC)

Umlaute
The article states in the second paragraph "Typically, English spellings of German loanwords... replace the umlaut letters with Ae, Oe, Ue, ae, oe, ue, respectively (influenced by Latin: æ, œ.)" Somebody kindly check that the use of Ae, Oe, Ue, ae, oe, ue in English is indeed influenced by Latin æ, œ. In German the Umlaut has a quite simple origin, which could also explain the English use of a, o, u combined with e. In Kurrent, an old form of German handwriting based on blackletter, the e is written as two slated bars, as is the Umlaut in modern German handwriting (see also the article about Sütterlin). Origninally the e just followed the a, o and u. People than started to put it above the letter as two slated bars, as they were using Kurrent handwriting. Early typing machines did not have such Umlaute and thus in typing the habit of having the e follow the a, o and u became common again until new typing machines with Umlaute were introduced. These however consisted of two points instead of two bars. On all foreign typing machines or computer keyboards, with the Umlaut normally lacking, Germans still use Ae, Oe, Ue, ae, oe, ue. It could well be that this is where the English spelling originates from. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 212.183.73.71 (talk) 09:08, 15 June 2008 (UTC)

Notes, explanations and such
I fail to see a consistent line. Do we explain the meaning of the German word on this list if it differs from the meaning of the English word? Do we include a short note explaining the English word? See beginnings of an edit war around delikatessen for more info.

I vote for a short definition of the English word and, if the original German meaning differs, a note defining the German word. Even if there is an article linked, it simply makes the list more useful. --Adhominem (talk) 17:41, 6 September 2008 (UTC)


 * I agree with your sentiments—a short description. In-depth usage notes and etymology should go into the main articles. The extent of some descriptions I object to are illustrated by my edit . Michael Bednarek (talk) 23:39, 6 September 2008 (UTC)

Raus
Though originally "raus" really is short for "heraus", indicating a movement out of somewhere and towards the speaker, it is also used short for "hinaus" (except in Bavaria where "'naus" would be used), which indicates a movement out of somewhere and away from the speaker. Thus, "Raus!" is actually not short for "Komm raus" ("Rauskommen" meaning coming out) but "Geh raus", translating "Go out", or more accurately "Get out!", because obviously the speaker wouldn't want the person thereby addressed to come towards him, but to leave. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Tronjjer (talk • contribs) 10:00, 3 November 2008 (UTC)


 * Yes, Tronjjer, it does depend on where the speaker is, telling someone from the inside to "get out!" it would indeed be "hinaus(gehen)", telling someone from the outside "come out!" would still be "herauskommen", and both would be covered by "raus!". You are right. Dieter Simon (talk) 01:50, 4 November 2008 (UTC)

Gene names in Drosophila melanogaster ?
Recently the section "Gene names in Drosophila melanogaster" has been added with a list of German words, none of which are cited as being a gene name. I followed one word (dachshund) to the FlyBase database and, sure enough, found it. On the other hand, the site flynome.com did not find it; however, it did find bruchpilot.

Anyway, I suggest that either a single source be found to verify these names or the section be deleted. Otherwise, it is open to erroneous or mischievous entries. Another argument for deleting the section, even if verified, is its lack of value for a wider readership and being a mere curio. Michael Bednarek (talk) 12:52, 30 November 2008 (UTC)


 * Okay, some Drosophila genes have been named after German words - but so have WoW players, are we going to include a list of them also? Not to mention that those names will likely never get an article of their own, and the few non-red-links go to articles not even mentioning the gene, but in some cases not even the German word (e.g. gurken redirects to Regional specification). IMHO this list is not notable enough to be included here. Lars T. (talk) 22:29, 30 November 2008 (UTC)


 * Can I just clarify this situation a little? If you go back in the history of this article a bit you'll find this list of so-called "gene names in Drosophila melanogaster" was entered as vandalism by an anon. The very same terms are also shown correctly under the heading "Other aspects of everyday life". I have a included a Nowiki item to warn editors not to reintroduce it this nonsense. Dieter Simon (talk) 00:38, 1 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Sorry, I should have said, the terms under the list of "other aspects of everyday life" are correct. The nonsense terms under the list of "gene names in Drosophila melanogaster" are not. So this latter list should not be re-entered. Dieter Simon (talk) 00:50, 1 December 2008 (UTC)


 * Let's not be too harsh: those names (I've now checked about half a dozen) are real, so describing these edits as vandalism seems unjust to me (WP:AGF). However, I agree (as I wrote above) that such a list is too obscure and specialised to be included in this article. Michael Bednarek (talk) 08:00, 1 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Yes, on second thoughts I do agree with you, they are possibly genuine as gene names. However, they should have been explained fully as such and sources cited. Also, as German expressions in English they do seem quite esoteric in everyday speech. If I was harsh, apologies all round.

Dieter Simon (talk) 23:25, 1 December 2008 (UTC)

Flak
Just to leave a note about it, I changed the translation of Flugabwehrkanone to air-defense gun instead of aircraft defense gun- it would have to be Flugzeugabwehrkanone to be 'aircraft-defense gun.' —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.208.231.32 (talk) 14:37, 13 September 2007 (UTC)


 * According to Anti-aircraft warfare the term is anti-aircraft gun. Wschroedter (talk) 12:25, 4 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Doesn't that article translate FlaK with "aircraft defence cannon" instead? Anyway, as usual, there a number of ways of translating such a term: literally or more idiomatically. The German term Flugabwehrkanone (or, according to de:Flugabwehrkanone also Fliegerabwehrkanone), may be translated literally as "Flight defence cannon" (or "aeroplane defence cannon") as does flak, or more idiomatically as "aircraft defence cannon" (see above) or "air-defence cannon" as this article currently does or as "anti-aircraft gun" as you suggest. Either way, the meaning is never in doubt. Michael Bednarek (talk) 15:22, 4 May 2009 (UTC)

Brezel - Bretzel
I am referring to this edit. AFAIK the AE spelling is indeed "Bretzel", maybe in order to avoid mispronounciation. German "Brezel" is pronounced with a long open "e" and a sharp "ts". The English pronounciation of this spelling would then be with a short closed "e" and a soft "zz". (Would need a sound file to demonstrate.) While the long open "e" (like German "Meer") seems to be unknown in English, the "zz" becomes more of a "ts" when spelling it "tz". My impression, at least. Wschroedter (talk) 11:07, 4 May 2009 (UTC)
 * The name of this article is "List of German expressions in English" and I understand that the German terms in this article are presented in their German spelling, although I admit that some are not. The German word is Brezel, the English word is "Pretzel". The German term is indeed used sometimes in English writings and business names. Bretzel is not an English word, althought it's sometimes mistakenly used in English if the writer intends to use the original German word, similiar to "" for Wiener Schnitzel. Some German dialects also seem to use it. However, the English Wiktionary only has an entry for Brezel, none for Bretzel. Also, this website is quite clear that Bretzel is wrong, as is the Duden in this entry. Under these circumstances I believe Brezel is the correct entry in this list. Michael Bednarek (talk) 15:22, 4 May 2009 (UTC)
 * You are absolutely right, Michael, I should have noticed that. Brezel is indeed the correct German spelling, many thanks. Dieter Simon (talk) 00:58, 5 May 2009 (UTC)

error
... Über Alles (originally "Deutschland über Alles"; now used by extension in other cases, as in the Dead Kennedys song "California Über Alles"). Incidentally (and ironically), this part of the German national hymn has become prohibited by law after WW2, as it is thought to have been used to propagate the attitude of racial and national superiority in Nazi Germany, as in the phrase "shall rule over all".

-not true, this part has not become prohibited Ahoh


 * Right. I fixed it some time ago, it still seems to be ok. The full song with all three verses has been the official national anthem up to 1991, although by convention only the third one was performed on official occasions. Only in 1991, after reunification, did the third verse alone become the national anthem. --Stephan Schulz 18:41, 15 June 2006 (UTC)

I was under the impression that the somewhat genereous discription of the area covered by Germany (including many areas that have not belonged to Germany for many many years) in the old first stanza was the main reason not to incude this stanza in the current national anthem, though. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.225.81.43 (talk) 05:21, 10 March 2008 (UTC)

Initially these words should express, how important it was to Hoffmann von Fallersleben, that the German speaking countries are united. Take a look to Deutschlandlied. RF-Musiker 00:03 July 13, 2009 (CET)]] —Preceding undated comment added 22:48, 12 July 2009 (UTC).

Fahrvergnugen is common
It's the standard name of a basic "grind" in Aggressive_skating. The pronunciation/spelling is shortened or approximated as "Nugen", "Fart-for-nugen", "Far-fer-nugen", "Farf", etc.

examples from Be-Mag include: http://be-mag.com/skatepictures/show/100 http://be-mag.com/skatepictures/show/44 http://be-mag.com/skatepictures/show/99

Also see the article Fahrvergnugen for more information.

Fräulein isn't Ms/Ms., is it?
The English word for Fräulein is Miss. As far as I know, there's a difference in meaning between Miss and Ms: Miss is used for an unmarried woman, whereas Ms can be used for every woman, regardless of her marital status, so I'm going to change the article accordingly. --Six words (talk) 10:14, 31 May 2009 (UTC)
 * The use of Fräulein in German is just as outdated as the use of Miss in English. German women now can determine whether they want to be addressed as Frau even if they are unmarried, and it is advisable to enquire whether they wish to be so addressed or not. Dieter Simon (talk) 22:34, 17 September 2009 (UTC)

merry christmas
Frochlie weinnacten —Preceding unsigned comment added by 208.80.74.13 (talk) 14:44, 4 December 2009 (UTC)

Verklemmt
I think Verklemmt is from Yiddish, rather than German. German seem to have a similar word "Beklemmend"/"Beklommen", instead.
 * The german use "verklemmt" too, its "uptight".
 * It came from the german family of words "klemmen", "geklemmt", "abklemmen", ... 84.137.171.229

...and a rather humorous expression for "male homosexual" would be "Klemmschwester"

No, that's definitely not Yiddish (like Chuzpe, Reibach or Meschugge). It's a sarcastic German slang for a shy person in a sexual meaning, unable to flirt or let him or herself go, can be a woman oder a man, but mostly used implicite for "frigid women". —Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.226.245.55 (talk) 20:13, 29 December 2009 (UTC)

List in the German Wikipedia
Please have a look at this list in the German wikipedia: de:Liste deutscher Fremdwörter in anderen Sprachen--MKI 16:26, 5 Oct 2004 (UTC)
 * The german Wiki people seem to think it is "grottenschlecht", though... I guess that means "horrendously bad" or something similar...

What about "Rumpelstiltskin"-effect? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.226.245.55 (talk) 19:59, 29 December 2009 (UTC)


 * “Rumpelstiltskin” is the English name for Rumpelstilzchen, so even if the effect is named after the fairy tale (I've never heard of this effect before) it's not a German expression. --Six words (talk) 20:20, 29 December 2009 (UTC)

Iceberg
Iceberg ([Eisberg]) is a German expression. Can it be added to the list? (I didn't want to start adding things without a consensus.) (Maaya 04:58, 14 October 2005 (UTC))
 * No, I think the English word is of Dutch or Scandinavian origin, so it doesn't count. It's just that the German word is a close cognate or calque based on the same roots. 惑乱 分からん 21:07, 24 March 2006 (UTC)
 * It's a half-calque of the Dutch word ijsberg.Cameron Nedland 18:36, 4 April 2007 (UTC)


 * Isn't Dutch a form of Low German? ;-) TinyMark 03:28, 8 November 2007 (UTC)


 * The difference between language and dialect is oftentimes merely political. See also Swedish-Danish, or Swiss German. Gulliveig (talk) 05:47, 23 January 2010 (UTC)

Discussing last two changes
1. I've never heard of a system in which a festschrift is prepared for a scholar 60 years after their first publication. Indeed, this would be a pretty crummy system for planning a festschrift, because more scholars than not must be dead by this point in their career and would therefore miss out on the honor. I have seen Festschriften for the scholar's 60th birthday; perhaps this is what was meant?

2. I've correct the common mistranslation of Eine kleine Nachtmusik; please see this article for full discussion. Opus33 (talk) 18:46, 6 February 2010 (UTC)

Merger per Articles for deletion/List of English words of German origin
The merger per Articles for deletion/List of English words of German origin has been completed. Bearian (talk) 20:31, 24 February 2010 (UTC)

Bergschrund
As I mountaineer doing some climbs outside the alps with international crew men most of the communication is in English, so I do miss the word "Bergschrund". I think it should be added in the "Sports and recreation" section. Other opinions? BTW: Russians speaking English refer to a sandwich as a "Butterbrot", but I think it's not used by native speakers and just a German term used in Russia? Is that correct? 85.181.79.71 (talk) 13:05, 17 September 2009 (UTC)
 * Not so, Butterbrot is indeed a good old German term, and it does mean a slice of bread spread with butter in German. The thing is probably that you are usually confronted by belegtes Brot, as normally you would choose bread and butter plus cheese, sausage, etc. Dieter Simon (talk) 22:48, 17 September 2009 (UTC)
 * Of course Bergschrund belongs into the list. I was unsure at first where to place it, but eventually opted for the "geology" section. Florian Blaschke (talk) 18:32, 9 March 2010 (UTC)

Sources: The German Wikipedia and my own knowledge in tongue.
I regret to say but terms such as "Fluchtweg" and "Geschmeido" are not words used in English, I think we are getting carried away a bit here. You really will have to create a Wikipedia article to explain what they really mean and by whom and in which capacity they are being used in English, as well as sources to support your statement that these expressions are used in English. You are saying: "Sources: The German Wikipedia and my own knowledge in tongue." Two aspects here: what the German Wikipedia says is not entirely relevant in the English Wikipedia and as to your statement "my own knowledge in tongue" sounds very much like own research. It needs to be supported and substantiated by independent sources. Dieter Simon (talk) 02:11, 14 March 2010 (UTC)
 * They are German band names and were listed as such; see de:Fluchtweg (Band), de:Tapete Records, http://www.geschmeido.com. -- Michael Bednarek (talk) 08:41, 14 March 2010 (UTC)
 * Oops, Michael, I am sorry. I hoisted myself on my own petard, haven't I? Have reverted the two examples in the list. Can we really say though that these band names are actual German words used in English. Aren't they names rather than words. Wouldn't that be tantamount to including all the geographical names "Berlin", "Gotha", "Carlsbad", etc., of German origin in the U.S. and in other English-speaking countries? Dieter Simon (talk) 23:52, 14 March 2010 (UTC)
 * I suspect that none of the German band names are used in English in the same way that "Kindergarten" is used. Their value in this list is propbably limited to a small number of people interested in those bands. The argument for excluding red links is customarily: "if they don't have an article, they're not notable." The arguments for including red links are usually: "1) the argument for excluding them for not having an article and thus being not notable is unproven; 2) Wikipedia is not paper – there is no harm in presenting extra information, it might be useful for some." I don't care either way; this list has long ago become the dumping ground for anyone who picked up a German word or phrase; it's encyclopedic value is minimal, but as Wikipedia is also an almanac, I suppose that's OK, too. -- Michael Bednarek (talk) 03:37, 15 March 2010 (UTC)

Reichskommissariat
I've got involved at Talk:Reichskommissariat over a suitable translation of "Reichskommissariat". Another editor proposes "Realm's Commissionerate" and, for several reasons, I disagree. Knowledgeable input would be highly desirable. Folks at 137 (talk) 09:21, 29 March 2010 (UTC)
 * Under no circumstances can it be translated into "realm commissionerate". It would be meaningless. "Realm", as in the English phrase "Peer of the Realm", may be referred to as a term unrelated to the German Reich from 1933-45, and so be translated into German as "reich", meaning any "kingdom". However the German term "Reich" is a generic term for exactly the period of Hitler Germany, as well as several other specific periods, such as Bismarck's and must be taken over as such, as for example in "Reichstag". As to "Kommissariat", such as Reichskommissariat Ukraine, during the Nazi period, the best way would be to transcribe it as such into English, again because historically and generically it refers to that specific period and has a specific meaning. I have seen it translated as "Reich commission" and its embodiment "Reichskommissar" as "Reich commissioner", but that again is really too unspecific. Dieter Simon (talk) 01:01, 30 March 2010 (UTC)

Foosball
I altered the foosball wording, because in Canada it is solely the name of table football, and is not used in any other way. At least in southern Ontario. It could be different in other parts of the country, I don't know. 64.231.14.161 11:40, 9 April 2007 (UTC)
 * Well I don't know weather it's used, but you probaly mean Fußball, produced Foosball. (see ß). Fußball. --80.144.104.233 (talk) 14:04, 30 December 2007 (UTC)


 * Well, I can say ( I am from Germany ) that we never use the word kicker in Germany. Only the word "kicken" ( to kick ) is sometimes used for playing football. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 188.96.184.56 (talk) 14:10, 16 June 2010 (UTC)

That is not true for Bavaria. I am a Bavarian and we use the term "Kicker" commonly. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 212.186.163.226 (talk) 22:16, 2 April 2011 (UTC)


 * Let me emphasize that the article is correct about the delicious cross-linguistic pattern here. The game table football also known as Foosball in English is commonly referred to as Kicker in Germany. Prost Mahlzeit! Mabuse (talk) 20:31, 3 April 2011 (UTC)

Handy
Now handy is also used in usa
 * No, it isn't. -114.91.68.217 (talk) 13:01, 4 November 2009 (UTC)
 * Yes it is. Even if you don't use it. http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/handy It comes from middle english. German translation is Handlich. Theshowmecanuck (talk) 17:12, 6 June 2011 (UTC)

Discussion from redirected Talk:List of English words of German origin
''If memory serves me right, Caesar described the Germanii as a large, hardy, ferocious people who inhabited the gloomy forests to the east of Gaul, wore hardly any clothes and were perpetually on the move. Well, if he were able to have a look around the seashores of Spain, Portugal or Italy today, he might say exactly the same thing, although this time around the context would be rather more peaceable. The descendents of those redoubtable forest-dwelling savages are probably the world's number-one travelers today, still gripped by an extraordinary wanderlust that sends them to the four corners of the earth in apparent flight from the serious, orderly and slightly boring society they have constructed for themselves in their geopolitical sandwich between the Latins to the west and the Slavs to the east. The Germans have done a lot of fighting and a lot of thinking about that sandwich over the centuries since Caesar reported on them, and the words that have entered the English language from their experience frequently reflect those military and intellectual struggles: they are light on things like play, gastronomy, fashion and frivolity but top heavy in philosophy, political thought and struggle in general: serious, consequential stuff. If these words tend to be a little ponderous and hard to pronounce, they are marvelously apt expressions of what could never be expressed so well if our English tongue just minded its own business and never wandered abroad to steal from others.''        -Rudolph Chelminski (rudychelminski@compuserve.com)

gesundheit
Neither "soundhood" nor "healthyhood" is a word in the English language. I suppose whoever included the word "soundhood" wanted to make an exact cognate to the German. Changing it to "healthyhood" ruins this intent without significantly changing the meaning. Incidentally, i think trying to invent an English word just so that it will be a cognate is silly, and the whole effort should be abandoned. - Lethe | Talk 20:46, Aug 8, 2004 (UTC)

Delicatessen
I have never eaten in a delicatessen; as a matter of fact, the only ones I have ever seen are in supermarkets - usually places where one buys specialist foods. Is a delicatessen actually some sort of restaurant or does that entry need editing?


 * Delis are very common in the New York area. I have eaten in them many times. -Lethe | Talk
 * In my experience the older / more history an area or city has in North America, the more likely you will find it easier to find delicatessens that serve food, as opposed to just selling meat and cheese etc. Even if there is no place to eat the food. I know of many delis that will sell you sandwiches but have no tables, but also know of may delis that sell prepared food and have seating. New York City as mentioned, but this also counts for many places in the U.S. Northwest, including large cities and small. Also in Southern Ontario, Manitoba, Illinois, all over. I wouldn't be surprised if you find at least one in any city of size, but in some you may have to look. In fact, you may shop at a deli that will make you a sandwich but just never asked them to. . Theshowmecanuck (talk) 17:20, 6 June 2011 (UTC)

Delicatessen are special foods, but not a shop or a restaurant. You can buy them in a delicatessen-shop. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 93.133.78.129 (talk) 12:48, 20 October 2008 (UTC)

Ostalgie
Ostalgie is *not* nostalgia for the whole eastern bloc but nostalgia for the German Democratic Republic aka East Germany, usually (rather short-mindedly if you ask me) limited to food products and some ways of lifestyle (if you consider it lifestyle to drive a Trabant). The Ostalgie-Article gives a pretty good impression. Ben 91.61.149.183 (talk) 11:58, 25 May 2009 (UTC) Added by Bearian (talk) 20:25, 24 February 2010 (UTC)

Older, miscellaneous discussion
I participated in a long discussion on the Leo forums a couple of years ago on this topic, it is available at http://forum.leo.org/archiv/2002_04/12/20020412185309l_en.html. This topic could be mined for more examples, some of which are quite a bit more common that some of the words appearing here. Also, what's 'LSD' doing in the list? --Don't have a Wiki id yet; I'm pczukor [at] yahoo dot com

Ansatz, Sitz im Leben and Urtext
Ansatz, Sitz im Leben and Urtext -- three words on this list I've never come across, at least not in "common English". What do they mean? --KF 19:20 Apr 29, 2003 (UTC)
 * Urtext at least is common, though it may be more recognizable in English written as Ur-text, meaning the original text (e.g. the manuscript of a symphony, etc.). -- Someone else 20:50 Apr 29, 2003 (UTC)


 * The term Sitz im Leben is used, no English equivalent being available, by scholars applying so-called "form criticism" to Biblical texts. See http://www.bible.gen.nz/amos/glossary/sitz_im_leben.htm - Sebastjan


 * "Ansatz" has many meanings, see http://dict.leo.org/ for translations. -- 195.33.105.17 16:32, 4 Feb 2004 (UTC)

Lederhose(n)
WRT Lederhose: in modern usage, Hose in the singular form does indeed mean one piece of clothing, however, the plural form Hosen may still be understood to mean one piece of clothing as well as more than one. This is supposedly due to the fact that some time two pieces of clothing (one for each leg) were united to form one piece, but the plural form remained in use until today. Kosebamse 19:46 Apr 29, 2003 (UTC)


 * It may just as well be the other way round. As you say, Sie trug eine Hose. "She was wearing trousers." is the same as Sie trug Hosen. However, I think the strong influence of English on German is responsible for the use of the plural for one piece of clothing. Can you substantiate your claim? (I can't.) --KF 19:59 Apr 29, 2003 (UTC)


 * Well, perhaps I can. "Kluge, Etymologisches Wörterbuch der deutschen Sprache", 23rd ed., says under "Hose":
 * [...] so bezeichnet wurde ursprünglich eine Art Strümpfe, die an der eigentlichen Hose [...] befestigt waren (deshalb noch nhd. [i.e. Neuhochdeutsch] ein paar Hosen u.ä.) [...]
 * which could be very roughly translated as:
 * term for a kind of stockings which were fastened to the "Hose" proper (therefore still in recent High German a pair of trousers)
 * Of course it is quite possible that the similar English form had some influence but the Kluge doesn´t mention this. Kosebamse 20:23 Apr 29, 2003 (UTC)


 * Thanks! KF 20:26 Apr 29, 2003 (UTC)


 * There is strong evidence, that the plural is the old form. In Low Saxon Büxen (pl.) is used in phrases, like "Se hett de Büxen an, nich ehr Mann" (She wears the trousers, not her husband). In Danish, it is "bukser", too. The use of the singular "Büx" is of younger date.Hansa
 * Another Typing is for one trouser is "Buchs"/"Buchse" (the "chs" in this sounds like "x" and you can also replace it with, like "Buxe"). L-Hosen: The bavarians also speak "Lederhosen"/"Lederhosn" and they are meaning one trouser. That very difficult to understand for high german speakers, too. 84.137.171.229 23:00, 9 Apr 2005 (UTC)


 * Grimm has "HOSE, f., meist plur. hosen, femoralia". The plural is most likely the older form. The original meaning is close to english "hose" in the sense of "stockings, socks", cf. also Dutch "hoos" in the same sense.  According to Grimm "auch die ältere nhd. sprache kennt hose nur als eine art hoch hinaufgehenden strumpf". So, when there were two of these 'stockings' on each leg one, it was naturally used in plural. That's also reflected in German literature, the older the texts or the diction, the more often one finds "Hosen" in plural. Given the archaicity of the plural in German (the Grimm Brothers wrote in the 18th/19th century) and the rather dubious "strong influence of English on German" here, I think we can settle for a development original plural > singular. --Simha (talk) 13:15, 19 March 2008 (UTC)


 * Absolutely, in modern German it is "Hose" every time. To ask a boy these days "Zieh deine Unterhosen an" would incur no end of mirth, and he would probably ask, how many pairs of underpants you would want him to put on. Dieter Simon (talk) 01:01, 20 March 2008 (UTC)

Delicatessen
I know little to nothing about word origins, but I was under the impression that "Delicatessen" came from French, not German ... ? Or is it originally from French, Germans took it, and we anglicized the German word? TimmyD 07:14 Apr 30, 2003 (UTC)
 * I´m not quite sure. In German "Delikatessen" and the adjective "delikat" are in daily use. Seems quite possible that the word is originally French. Kosebamse 10:22 Apr 30, 2003 (UTC)

-- "Essen" isn't French. "Délicat" is and is, thus, an import from French to German. "Delikatessen" is, therefore, German and it has been Anglicised to "delicatessen". I know of "deli" as an American abbreviation (not widely used in British English), but is that used in German? www.danon.co.uk
 * I think we are close to understanding why Internet fora aren't necessarily a good place to do scholarly research on etymology… The German word Delikatessen is not a compound of delikat and Essen. It's the plural of eine Delikatesse. My Duden 5 (Fremdwörter) gives no information about the etymology. Arbor 19:29, 8 Jun 2005 (UTC)


 * Info from German Wikipedia: "Delikatesse (frz. délicat "zart", "fein", délicatesse "Feinheit", "Subtilität")" and it is commonly used in German since 16th century

TimmyD got it right. The word was borrowed from French into German, whence it entered English. --Simha 11:08, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
 * In other words, English was loaned the word from German, not French. Theshowmecanuck (talk) 17:29, 6 June 2011 (UTC)

What counts?
Clearly there is a huge area for confusion. After all, "Gesundheit" is not in common use in English - unless you are assuming the US dialect. If this article is talking about expressions in use across dialects (i.e., if single dialect use is ipso facto uncommon), it needs thinning out and a policy statement showing what to avoid. PML.


 * I think we shouldn't be too strict about this. If this is still a brainstorming phase, let's try and find some more expressions. I can hardly believe that there aren't more German words in English, considering that the other way round we are presented with an altogether different situation.


 * I think it was correct to remove Gymnasium though. This word belongs to false friends. Hopefully no one is going to start on Yiddish expressions here. --KF 23:25 Apr 30, 2003 (UTC)


 * I wouldn't say US expressions are uncommon, AFAIK, there are more 1st lang english speakers in the US than in the UK, and US eng is also often being learnt as a 2nd language. (I don't know which type is being learnt most commonly, though, although US eng seems more popular in Asia.)

As far as I know "Gesundheit" is used in the USA but only as an interjection and not in the meaning of health.--62.47.93.204 23:38, 5 May 2005 (UTC)

I'm not sure if this is the place to put this but I think the majority (about 70%) of these words are not used in english. I think there has been some overzealous brainstorming going on and this article could do with some serious pruning. "The German words of this category will easily be recognized by many English speakers; they are commonly used in English contexts" Hasenpfeffer, Stein, Streusel, Zwieback, Turnverein, Volkswanderung, Wunderbar, Dummkopf, Gemütlichkeit, Ansatz etc. These are numerous examples of commonly used german crossover words in english? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 188.141.79.239 (talk) 21:30, 2 April 2010 (UTC)
 * Good gracious, this is indeed an Oldie that is suddenly cropping up. However, it obviously needs a reply. The problem with German terms, words and phrases is - probably similarly to most other languages - the context in which they are being used.
 * "Stein", for example, is certainly correct usage in English if you are talking about an earthenware-type drinking vessel. "Streusel" in questions of cuisine will certainly be encountered in English and so is "Zwieback". As for "Dummkopf" and "Gemütlichkeit" will be met with in certain ironic circumstances.


 * The best advice I can give is, if in doubt, enter any search engine with "dictionary stein" or "dictionary gemutlichkeit"(without the quotes) and if the term is used in English, it will be there and will be defined (in English). Dieter Simon (talk) 23:23, 2 April 2010 (UTC)

Lager, Dachshund
Not sure about the etymology, but lager is probably a false friend. It is indeed German for warehouse and not in common use with the meaning of lager beer. And Dachshund, althouogh of German origin, is not used in German, (instead Dackel), so I would not list it here. I think this is supposed to be a list of words that are used and recognized as German words. If we would list here any word of German origin in the English language...erm, good luck with the task, but it might belong to Wiktionary or somewhere else. Kosebamse 05:58 May 10, 2003 (UTC)


 * "Dachs" and "Hund" are two german words and "Dachshund" (shortened "Dackel") is german origin, but not often used (instead of Dackel). 84.137.171.229 23:12, 9 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Muesli, Nestle
For the sake of encyclopedic-ness, I would like to add that Muesli is Swiss German rather than High German, or to be even more precise, it looks much a like variant of High German as the Swiss would use it, the word itself perhaps being derived from a Swiss German diminutive of Mus (meaning mash). Kosebamse 13:03 May 13, 2003 (UTC)


 * Nestle (the swiss company) is also just a swiss word for the gernam/english Nest (just have a look at the logo). Fantasy


 * Müsli is commonly used in germany for cereals

A Germlish story
After the Putsch, the Bundespräsident, not a born Übermensch, and his Doberman pinscher were seeking Gemütlichkeit. They went to the Oktoberfest by U-Bahn, showing no signs of Angst, and the president had several lagers and spritzers there. His doggie ate a bratwurst, while his master started singing a lied about Weltschmerz. At that point the Kapellmeister stopped eating his Sauerkraut and joined in.
 * At this point a maid carrying Apfelpastete tripped on a Gummibär, and there was much Schadenfreude..:Stirb Nicht Vor Mir:. 12:03, 22 May 2007 (UTC)

Seriously, there is something wrong with this list, but I'm not quite sure what. I would like to encourage native speakers of English from all over the world to have a look at it. Together we might be able to improve it a bit. --KF 16:03 May 13, 2003 (UTC)

Why didn't they use Autobahn to go to Kindergarten? RF-Musiker 00:03 July 13, 2009 (CET)]] —Preceding undated comment added 22:31, 12 July 2009 (UTC).

pronunciation guides
Just a note for people who want to add pronunciation guides in the future (I just fixed a couple)... the letter "w" in German is pronounced like the English "v" always. Thus, Volkswagen is pronounced "folksvagen". I know most English speakers pronounce it differently, but I believe it should be noted correctly here. -- Djmutex 11:40 20 May 2003 (UTC)

renaming this list and leaving out the "common" in the title
What about renaming this list and leaving out the "common" in the title? Who can say what is "common" and what isn't? There must be millions of English speakers all over the world who have never in their lives used any of the words in this list. Any comments? --KF 16:38 25 May 2003 (UTC)


 * No comments. Well then, the inclusion of Methodenstreit was the last straw. --KF 18:45 27 May 2003 (UTC)

Regierungsbezirk
This list looks increasingly off to me. Now, I'm German and thus may not have a good feel for this list, but Regierungsbezirk?!? Has any native English speaker not living in Germany ever used that word? djmutex 19:11 1 Jun 2003 (UTC)


 * I agree (see 13 May 2003 above). Not every German word that crops up somewhere in Wikipedia is also being used in English, but it seems difficult to decide where to draw the line. I'll remove Regierungsbezirk: I imagine the vast majority of German speakers have never in their lives used this word. --KF 19:42 1 Jun 2003 (UTC)

Bezirk, Zeitschrift, Bundesliga, Bundespräsident
There are lots of words here which don't belong on this list. Where are Bezirk or Zeitschrift used in English? And I don't think proper names of institutions or organizations like Bundesliga or Bundespräsident belong there. --Wik 18:17, Aug 23, 2003 (UTC)

(d'oh!)
what about nonillion? it's not really common, it's not really german but from latin, i think. -- german user

words of common origin
It seems this list features mainly words that migrated from German to English in the 20th century. Would it be okay to add words like Hand, Finger, Ring, Winter, Gold, Name, Warm, Bank, Sand... to this list too? Or are these too long in the English language to be known for their German origin? -- 195.33.105.17 12:08, 30 Jan 2004 (UTC)


 * Those aren't of german origin, they are of Germanic origin (as is English itself). There is a difference.  Morwen 12:15, Jan 30, 2004 (UTC)


 * I see. I added a note explaining this difference. -- 195.33.105.17 16:32, 4 Feb 2004 (UTC)

organized list
I've organized this list into several categories based on frequency in English. Most of these words are very, very rare in English, and I don't want to give non-native speakers the impression that, say, "rosenkavalier" or "gleichschaltung" are used as commonly in English as are "kindergarten" or "bratwurst". I've likely missed a few. I'm going to break out the "academic contexts" section by discipline, since it's getting too big, but not tonight. (though feel free to dig in if you're bored.) Kwertii 02:13, 17 Feb 2004 (UTC)

Comment - where can I find this organized list? I'd love to see a grouping of these words into common, rare, academic/scientific, and "appear to have been included as a joke" categories.

JT docedemayo@yahoo.com

11 months later
I just came across this page after I started it about 11 months ago and are amazed how great it evolved. Thanks all. BTW, the categories are great.

Germanismus
See also http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Germanismus Stern 02:34, 18 Mar 2004 (UTC)

Where do we draw the line?
This is getting a little out of hand. I'm a native English speaker and I've never, ever heard most of these terms used in English. Where do we draw the line? Kwertii 23:48, 2 Apr 2004 (UTC)


 * Hi Kwertii, These words are used by people with all sorts of specializations, often academic specializations. Probably no one native speaker of English knows them all, but collectively, the population of English speakers does know them all.  I can assure you that musicologists really do talk about Kapellmeisters, historians about Kristallnacht, linguists about ablaut, and so on.


 * Kwertii's plaint does raise the question of whether this page is useful to anybody--surely, anyone who wanted to know what a Kapellmeister is would visit Kapellmeister, and not this page. I personally find the list worthwhile because it gives an overview of how the German-speaking cultures have influenced the English-speaking ones.  Opus33 00:49, 3 Apr 2004 (UTC)


 * One, I've seen many of these words -- even though many are specialized -- in English works. Two, it's useful to time these words all together, even if they are also accessible individually.


 * Indeed, I stumbled upon this looking for a list of abbreviations used in Das Dritte Reich (in that the right article?) because several are listed in Primo Levi's The Drowned and the Saved, and some of them I didn't know. (The abbreviations I don't know: RKAP, WVHA -- the ones I do: NSDAP, SS, SA, SD, KZ, RSHA, BDM). Ah, Google tells me that WVHA is Wirtschaftsverwaltungshauptamt: "The WVHA was responsible for all administration, economic and construction affairs of the SS".


 * Is there a particular reason that the euphemistic category "History" is used on the page, rather than having a separate category for Nazi-era expressions -- especially as almost all the expressions listed under "History" are from Das Dritte Reich or are military terms (Kanone, Soldaten, Oberstleutnant)? orthogonal 01:04, 8 Apr 2004 (UTC)

Zeitgeber
Would "Zeitgeber" be best transliterated as "time-giver" or "tide-giver"? Just wondering, since german Zeit seems to have both meanings...


 * its "time-giver", "Zeit" for tide isn't very usual, its "Flut" or "Gezeiten". "Zeit" is time. "Zeitgeber" is usually a technical thing which gives a signal in a special frequency.


 * Agreed. Am changing "tide-giver" to "time-giver" in the list.  Not that I know German, but I see this word used in articles about and studies of circadian rhythms.

O and H - Ohne Hauch and Hauch
It may be useful to add O and H (for ohne Hauch and Hauch) to the Medicine section, as these German phrases are apparently used for antigen classifications of E. Coli. Source: "The most common antigens of E. coli are the 0, K, and H antigens. The terminology 0 (from the German: Ohne Hauch) and H (from the German: Hauch), is used for the somatic (0) and flagellar (H) antigens of E. coli" -- http://mmbr.asm.org/cgi/reprint/46/2/129.pdf Any thoughts on this from a medicine expert? Mabuse (talk) 00:28, 9 June 2011 (UTC)

Neubauten
Discussion copied from User talk:Kuratowski's Ghost

I just noticed that you reverted my correction of the statement that "Neubau" refers to a style. I won't revert it again – i'm tired of edit wars with people who don't adequately back up their POV. But i wonder why you did that. You just have been called erudite, and you certainly don't seem like a rash POV contributor. But neither am i. As you can check in my history, if i change a statement, then i only do so when i know what i'm doing.

The term "Neubau" has been used in the meaning "new building" since the 18th century, according to Duden: Das Herkunfswörterbuch. It is not listed as an style in either Wilfried Koch: Baustilkunde, Orbis Verlag, 1994 or dtv-Atlas zur Baukunst, dtv, 1981. Do you have any serious reference that defines it as a style? &mdash; S e b a s ti a n  ( T ) 21:54, 2005 Apr 17 (UTC)


 * Well its something repeated over and over in articles about the band and can be found in the rec.music.industrial FAQ for example. Kuratowski's Ghost 22:35, 17 Apr 2005 (UTC)

From Einstürzende Neubauten

"The band's name is a marvelously compact poetical phrase and does not translate easily into English. "Imploding new buildings" is the main meaning. However "Einstürzende" is "Imploding" as an adjective not a verb - i.e. new buildings that are busy collapsing, falling down. But "Neubauten" is not just new buildings in general, it can also refer to a specific style of architecture, faceless concrete monoliths."

From RMI FAQ

"Neubauten" generally refers to buildings built in a particular style, rather than to any recently constructed buildings. The style in question is the impersonal concrete-box modernist style. Most housing projects (especially the huge towers built in the 60's) are perfect examples of Neubauten."

From Einstürzende Neubauten

Einstürzende Neubauten translates to "collapsing new buildings," which could be misunderstood as a desire to get a wreaking ball and set about town. In fact the name refers to buildings built in Germany after the Second World War that were so poorly constructed, they literally just collapsed Kuratowski's Ghost 02:55, 18 Apr 2005 (UTC)
 * [**] (In German:) Meine gesamte Schulzeit lebte ich in Kiel, welches im Krieg durch 19 Bombenangriffe mit insgesamt 6079 Flugzeugen zu 80 % zerstört war; kein einziges der (solide gebauten!) wiederaufgebauten Häuser ist eingestürzt, sämtliche stehen noch. Eingestürzt hingegen sind: Die Berliner Kongreßhalle (kein Neubau, die Halteseile waren durchgerostet http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kongresshalle_(Berlin) ), die eiförmige Sporthalle in Halstenbek zweimal mitten im Bau ("das Knick-Ei", http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Knick-Ei_von_Halstenbek) . Einstürzende Neubauten habe ich selbst aufgefaßt als einen Wunschtraum aus Haß gegen neue menschenfeindliche Architektur – ähnlich wie im Film Zabriskie_Point_(film) die Szene, in der das Haus des verhaßten Bosses Lee (vor allem in der Vorstellung der Filmheldin Daria) immer noch mal wieder in die Luft fliegt. In diesem Sinne sehe ich den Namen Einstürzende Neubauten als einen Wunsch, eine poetische Idee und gegen die Bauwut der kapitalstarken, rücksichtslosen Baulöwen. –– Detlef Lindenthal (talk) 20:14, 14 December 2011 (UTC)

Now i see where you're coming from. How about: "The term has been used since the 18th century to mean just "new building". For the band this evokes the image of buildings built during the Wiederaufbau (whatever that translates to in English), which were ..."?

What seems to be important for the band, and what distinguishes the buildings of that era is that they were cheap – following the sheer necessity of providing shelter for as many people as possible as quickly as possible with very limited resources. Style is not the issue – in fact, stylistic considerations were an unaffordable luxury. But if you want to give it a name, use the correct name: functionalism.

In short, defining "Neubau" as "buildings built during a certain time" makes as little sense as defining "baby" to mean "anyone born between 2004 and 2005". Much as i love music – please let’s leave the definition of architectural styles to architects. &mdash; S e b a s ti a n  ( T ) 06:22, 2005 Apr 18 (UTC)


 * I agree with you, Sebastian. WLD 07:35, 27 Apr 2005 (UTC)

I don't know what the right answer on this word. However the fact that it has been in use since the 18th century doesn't mean it can't commonly refer to post WWII buildngs now. Meanings often change. In fact the same thing has happened in English. In Jane Austen's "Pride and Predjudice" (written at the end of the 18th century) she describes Mr. Darcy's house in Derbyshire a "modern building." Yet if you described something as a modern building today in America it would refer to a particular architectural style that did not exist in Jane Austen's time. Jenn


 * The meaning of "Neubau" (pl. "Neubauten") has changed in the last years since WWII. Buildings build before WWII are called "Altbau" (lit. old building). "Neubau" is the opposite of "Altbau" (build after WWII). "Altbauten" have thick walls, high ceilings and are mostly decorated at the outside.

The architectural style you talking of might be "Bauhaus".

Spelling
Since we're talking about German imports to English, it would be useful (and accurate) if, in lists, non-proper nouns did not have an initial capital letter. For example: "angst".

German words that have no English counterparts
Is there a translation for the following?
 * Nesthäkchen: Somewhat endearing term for a child who is so much younger than the rest of his/her siblings that he/she remains in the nest while all the others flown out. (Sebastian (talk) 21:40, 2005 Jun 9 (UTC))
 * "Is there a translation for the following? Nesthäkchen:" Yes: "Family-baby", the smallest of the children, therefore being most loved by all the members of the family. Hans Rosenthal (hans.rosenthal AT t-online.de -- replace AT by @ )

In America we call such a person "the baby of the family." However it is often shortened to simply "the baby" with an emphasis on "the." Such as "Janie's the baby." There doesn't have a large age gap. It's more about the attitude that comes from being catered to and having more relaxed rules.

"Afterthought" maybe? It's a bit unkind, but perhaps closer than "baby of the family", because it suggests a long interval. TobyJ 13:32, 14 October 2005 (UTC)

Dieser Wiki-Artikel hat mich wirklich beeindruckt
An alle Beiträger und vor allem den Schöpfer dieses Wiki-Artikels: Hut ab ! Ich bin beeindruckt ! Hans Rosenthal (hans.rosenthal AT t-online.de -- ersetze AT durch @ )


 * Hans Rosenthal? Wir sind der Meinung: Das ist spitzeeee!--131.130.122.144 18:06, 15 June 2006 (UTC)


 * Danke für das Kompliment. Wenn man drinsteckt, hat man wahrscheinlich ein verzerrtes Bild; da ist es gut, von einem Außenstehenden zu hören. &mdash; Sebastian (talk) 05:01, 2005 Jun 18 (UTC)

Worth adding a comment
that use of the term Rucksack is more common, for example, in some parts of Pennsylvania? 69.72.8.228 23:56, 21 Jun 2005 (UTC)

ÜBER
I have read the term "über" (in German: ub above / about) in an US english text in a meaning of something like "the best-at-all". The person who has written the text was from a german-speaking country and has moved to the USA later on. Is "über" really used in US language? --BeanMe (talk) 16:26, 1 October 2012 (UTC)
 * I think so; see e.g. the articles über and uber-. -- Michael Bednarek (talk) 03:43, 2 October 2012 (UTC)

Changed a part of the text that appears to be relating to Germany during WWII, for obvious reasons. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.173.97.35 (talk) 17:45, 25 October 2012 (UTC)