Talk:List of Grand Theft Auto IV characters

Niko and Kate's relationship
I think that the reason Kate never invites Niko into her house after a successful date is more likely because she is unwilling to engage in pre-marital sex and not necessarily because she only considers him a friend. I base this on the fact that she kisses him on the cheek at one point. Grieferhate (talk) 22:09, 13 April 2009 (UTC)

Niko's personality
I am seeing similarities between Niko's personality and the personality of Macbeth - the two are by far the most mature and the sanest of all the people that they interact with, have both been scarred by events in war and both feel that their spirits have been damaged beyond repair by things that they've done (Niko by his atrocities and Macbeth by the murder of the King of Scotland). While I accept that Niko is the more moral of the two, I am sure that it is worth noting. Should it be noted? Grieferhate (talk) 21:54, 13 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Hi Grieferhate. I actually agree with you that there are parallels between Niko and Macbeth, however that sort of information constitutes original research unless you can find a reliable source which has drawn that conclusion. Hope that helps! -- WORM  MЯOW  07:56, 16 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Actually, I was aware of that, but I am useless when it comes to citing sources. That's why I put it in the discussion page first. Grieferhate (talk) 16:52, 16 April 2009 (UTC)
 * I doubt that there will be any mentions of the parallels between Niko and Macbeth on any sources, as I can see that it is hard to make the connection - I only recently made the connection myself, so it will be hard. I'm hoping that people can find anything, however. Grieferhate (talk) 18:53, 28 April 2009 (UTC)

Character Deaths
It's quite the spoiler to tell readers not only that a character dies, but in what chapter, in the very beginning of their particular articles. This fucking thing ruined the game for me.

Agreed. There should be a spoiler alert.


 * It's Wikipedia. Every article about any work of fiction can be assumed to be full of spoilers.  It's in the rules somewhere that spoilers are the default.--12.21.161.34 (talk) 16:06, 22 December 2008 (UTC)

Dardan and stolen T.V:s
"Dardan Pretela is an Albanian loan-shark and also operates in a fence by selling stolen objects which is by said Roman when he says 'if I wanted to buy a stolen T.V, I would go to Dardan.'"

In communities of immigrants from Balkan here in Scandinavia (at least Norway and Sweden), albanians are often stereotyped as petty thieves. I don't know if this is a generally accepted prejudice or if it's something that's been born here, but when I heard Roman's statement in-game I immediately saw it as a reference to this, especially seeing as Roman is a serb (most likely, keep that flame war in the section were it belongs) and serbs stereotypically dislike albanians. Am I completely off here? 83.248.165.29 (talk) 21:38, 13 June 2008 (UTC)

I think that this counts as speculation rather than hard fact - if you had sources that link this with your speculation, then you could add it. I know because I have seen similarities between Niko and the lead part in Shakespeare's Macbeth, but this cannot be added because I don't have evidence to back up my observation. Grieferhate (talk) 14:34, 28 June 2009 (UTC)

Formal names vs. common names
86.18.83.87 keeps changing the headings from the common names i.e. "Playboy X" to "Trey Stewart". In my opinion the headings should have their common names, the lead-in can say their formal name. – xeno cidic  ( talk ) 14:35, 6 July 2008 (UTC)

Elizabeta Torres
Why does it say Elizabeta Torres is voiced by Charlie Parker? He died in 1955. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.178.170.157 (talk) 00:18, 14 July 2008 (UTC)

Elizabeta Torres was voiced by an unknown female voice actress with the same name of Charlie Parker, it did not mean she was voiced by the famous musician who is indeed dead, as of 1955. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.124.40.173 (talk) 22:11, 1 April 2009 (UTC)

Lola Del Rio existence source
check here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J_6md-XLg1s it is a video that she does exist, albeit among fake videos claiming the same. May not suffice for a valid source, but eventually someone big will post a blog or review on it we can cite. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Anthony cargile (talk • contribs) 12:59, 22 July 2008 (UTC)

Florian Cravic
I wonder, how is his name pronounced? Admiral Norton (talk) 21:37, 30 July 2008 (UTC)

its pronounced flowreean kravichLink ganon zelda (talk) 01:29, 9 August 2008 (UTC)


 * I was thinking something along the line of Ts ravi ch, but I guess Rockstar doesn't know Serbian that well. Thanks for your answer. Admiral Norton (talk) 13:04, 9 August 2008 (UTC)

Giovanni Ancelotti, unseen character?
Isn't he seen in the game? During the misson where Niko and Packie are exchanging Gracie for the diamonds?

No, that's "Gay" Tony Prince and his bodyguard, Luis Fernando Lopez. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.124.40.173 (talk) 22:13, 1 April 2009 (UTC)

cast
GRAND THEFT AUTO IV STARRING: MICHAEL HOLLICK - NIKO BELLIC, JASON ZUMWALT - ROMAN BELLIC, MOTI MARGOLAN - DIMITRI RASCALOV, RYAN JOHNSTON - PATRICK "PACKIE" McREARY, COOLIE RANX - JACOB "LITTLE JACOB" HUGHES, ALSO STARRING: THOMAS LYONS - FRANCIS McREARY, TIMOTHY ADAMS - BRUCIE KUBBUTZ, JOE BARBARA - RAY BOCCINO, TONY PATELLIS - DON JAMES "JIMMY" PEGORINO, FRANK BONSANGUE - PHIL BELL, CHARLIE PARKER - ELIZABETA TORRES, ELENA HARVEY HURST - MALLORIE BARDAS-BELLIC, DEVIN RICHARDS - DWAYNE FORGE, POSTELL PRINGLE - TREY "PLAYBOY X" STEWART, MILTON JAMES - U.L. PAPER, GEORGE FEASTER - DERRICK McREARY, P.J. SOSKO - GERRY McREARY, KAREL RODEN - MIKHAIL FAUSTIN, BERTO COLON - MANNY ESCUELA, MARY CATHERINE DONNELLY - KATE McREARY, MADISON ARNOLD - JON GRAVELLI, MISHA KUZNETSOV - VLADIMIR "VLAD" GLEBOV, TIMOTHY J. ALEX - FLORIAN CRAVIC/BERNIE CRANE, VITALI BAGANOV - RODISLAV "RAY" BULGARIN, SEEBORN - TEAFORE "REAL BADMAN" MAXWELL-DAVIES, DORIS BELACK - MAUREEN McREARY, REBECCA CROSS - MICHELLE/KAREN, ROBERT FUNARO - ANTHONY CORRADO, NOTABLE ACTORS/PEOPLE IN THE GAME: KARL LAGERFELD, IGGY POP, JULIETTE LEWIS, DADDY YANKEE, KAREL RODEN (RASPUTIN IN HELLBOY, THE RUSSIAN ASSASSIN IN THE BOURNE SUPREMECY), THOMAS WAITES (WINDOWS IN THE THING) LAZLOW JONES, JASON SUDEIKIS, FRED ARMISEN, WIL WHEATON (MAIN CHARACTOR OF STAND BY ME), ROBERT FUNARO (EUGENE PONTECORVO IN THE SOPRANOS) and BILL HADER. --69.124.57.51 (talk) 01:36, 6 August 2008 (UTC)

Niko's Personality
I've been told that Niko's personality is based on ex-footballer (or "soccer" player) Slaven Bilić's, and to be honest I can see the resemblence, but surely this is untrue. Have Rockstar said anything about this? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 90.209.46.103 (talk) 17:30, 13 August 2008 (UTC)

Kate McReary
I don't know if it's just me, but I picked the finale that she dies in, and about a week after that I was playing the same profile and she called me asking me why I haven't called her. I don't know if it's a glitch, but it kinda creeps me out. --L0W3R1D3R | TH3 L0W3D0WN 00:01, 23 September 2008 (UTC)

I think you'll find, mate, that this is not a glitch - the makers probably didn't want us to lose the benefits we get from dating characters because they die in the storyline - if you take the Deal storyline, when Roman is killed, he can still be called and taken out and his taxi service can still be used. I think that this is proof that what goes on in between missions is considered non-canon - this together with the fact that characters who you can take out do not acknowledge recent missions, unless they were missions done before they became friends - Packie will not acknowledge his sister's death if he is taken out after the Revenge storyline. Grieferhate (talk) 17:23, 17 October 2008 (UTC) That not at all true. It is a glitch. Try playing the game again. Roman is not available for me after he got killed. Phone calls that happen between missions are cannon since certain characters cannot be accessed after something happens in the storyline. Didn't you notice how you can not go out with dwayne after killing him? Derelix (talk) 21:10, 21 March 2009 (UTC)

Perhaps I should've been a bit clearer - Dwayne cannot be taken out because he never was taken out - he can only be taken out after all his and Playboy's missions have been done - whichever way you look at it. Maybe you didn't get Roman after he died because you use a different gaming platform to me. Grieferhate (talk) 14:31, 28 June 2009 (UTC)

Kiki Jenkins
Why is Kiki Jenkins not listed as a "girlfriend" character along with Kate, Michelle/Karen and Carmen Ortiz? Kiki is a lawyer from Algonquin that can be dated; she has the special ability to reduce wanted level stars for Niko if she likes him enough (similar to Francis McReary's ability). Someone should fix this!! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.2.7.218 (talk) 19:59, 28 September 2008 (UTC)

It seems like they've gone out of their way to take her out, using the excuse that only girlfriends involved in the story are included, even though Carmen isn't involved in anything. 67.101.56.253 (talk) 02:29, 6 October 2008 (UTC)

I don't see how appearing for 4 seconds in a cutscene with no dialogue qualifies Carmen as a "major character". When I get the time I'm moving Carmen to minor characters and adding Kiki there as well. 67.103.26.142 (talk) 10:50, 15 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Don't worry, I made sure it happened. I would've done it earlier, but I didn't know Kiki's surname. Grieferhate (talk) 09:50, 16 October 2008 (UTC)

Thank you! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.2.7.218 (talk) 18:06, 18 October 2008 (UTC)

Descriptions of character deaths
I haven't had much to do with this article, since I was avoiding it while playing the game. I was just wondering what the general consensus is regarding describing character deaths. I've noticed a couple that I don't agree with, but don't want to change anything yet in case I'm missing something. One is the "revenge" death of Dimitri which is described here as: "Niko executes Dimitri by shooting him in both his legs then the head". Now, when I played that mission, I killed him in the execution style and he was only shot in the head. The other thing is that the player doesn't have to kill him this way; for example, a Youtube video shows him being beaten with a baseball bat. Since these things are often down to player choice, would it be better just to say that the character is killed, rather that actually describing how?  Dbam  Talk/Contributions 14:17, 19 October 2008 (UTC)


 * I agree. It should be kept simple because the player can do things differently. Bill (talk 14:29, 19 October 2008 (UTC)


 * I decided to keep the info, but added it was only during optional cut scenes. I added a note about the execution cut scenes to the lead too.  Darko's scene in particular seems to have some bearing on events (thanking Niko).  I'd actually like to point out, while I'm on, that I've actually just watched Dimitri's proper execution on Youtube and he is shot in the legs.  I was sure I'd done him execution-style, but I must've been mistaken, oh well.  Dbam  Talk/Contributions 18:49, 19 October 2008 (UTC)

Niko Belic
Other main protagonists from the others games (i.e. Carl "CJ" Johnson) have their own page, why not Niko? D.M.N. (talk) 08:34, 20 October 2008 (UTC)
 * I would support having a page for Niko.MOOOOOPS (talk) 08:48, 20 October 2008 (UTC)
 * I've created the page. Just follow the link Niko Bellic (GTA character Grieferhate (talk) 15:34, 29 October 2008 (UTC)

<!-- Nikolai "Niko" Bellic is the primary character in Grand Theft Auto IV.

Life before game
Niko grew up in war-torn Bosnia. His father was a drunken bully and his mother, Milica Bellic, was upset to see her son grow up in such a bad place. When he was an "angry teenager," he fought in the Serbian War. During this, he saw and committed numerous atrocities that damaged him emotionally. A deciding moment came at one point when his army unit was ambushed nearly everyone was killed. A few weeks later, he realised that someone in the unit had betrayed them, Niko returned to where they were buried to check each body and see who was missing. He discovered that two men: Darko Brevic and Florian Cravic were missing. Niko initially suspected Florian of betraying them. Niko spent the next several years trying to track down both men so that he could ultimately avenge his friends. He is still searching in the game.

Following the war, Niko got involved in crime. He spent some time in prison and eventually joined a human smuggling ring, run by Rodislav "Ray" Bulgarin. One night, a ship bound for Italy sank in the Adriatic Sea. Niko managed to swim to safety, but Bulgarin, needing someone to put the blame on, accused Niko of stealing the money on the ship and sinking it. Realising that Bulgarin was too powerful a figure to fight, Niko joined the Merchant Navy. After learning that Florian Cravic is in Liberty City and that it is a good place to hide from Bulgarin, Niko decides to join his cousin, Roman, who has been in Liberty City for 10 years and claims through his letters home to be living the "American Dream" and possesses a mansion, four hot tubs, fifteen sports cars and two women.

Life in game
Upon arriving in America, Niko discovers that Roman's prior tales of success were, in actual fact, figures of his imagination - he in reality lives in a small, dirty apartment in Broker (Brooklyn), runs a gritty taxi firm there that is usually used by criminals and owes gambling debts to criminals. He is also harrassed by three Albanian loan sharks: Dardan and Kalem Petrela and Bledar Morina. His only success is with his long-time girlfriend, Mallorie. Eventually, Niko manages to help bail Roman out of his trouble. However, after Niko assassinates Vladimir "Vlad" Glebov, a member of the Liberty City Bratva, because he was sleeping with Mallorie, Vlad's superior, Mikhail Faustin, makes Niko take Vlad's place. However, because of Faustin's temper and drug abuse, his understudy, Dimitri Rascalov is annoyed and knows that Mikhail's behaviour will land him in trouble. Things boil over when Mikhail, on a whim, orders Niko to kill Lenny Petrovic, the son of another major Bratva boss, Kenny Petrovic. To avoid Petrovic's wrath, Dimitri orders Niko to assassinate Faustin, to prove to Kenny Petrovic that Lenny's death was to be blamed on him and that Niko was just a hired gun. Before he is killed, Faustin warns Niko that America has made Dimitri greedy and he will betray him as well.

Following this, Niko meets Dimitri in a warehouse to collect his pay, where Dimitri indeed betrays him and reveals that he has partnered with Bulgarin, from whom Niko fled to America. Bulgarin orders his men to kill Niko, but Little Jacob (one of Niko's friends) arrives in the nick of time to save Niko. However, Dimitri then burns down Roman's apartment and taxi depot, driving them out of Broker and into Bohan (The Bronx). There, they move into an apartment owned by Mallorie's cousin. Niko then works for a drug dealer named Elizabeta Torres. However, his girlfriend, Michelle, then reveals herself to be a government agent. Niko soon finds himself torn between working for the United Liberty Paper (a shadowy government agency) and various crime families, such as the McRearys, the Pegorinos and the Gambetti crime family. To make matters worse, Dimitri then kidnaps Roman to lure Niko to a warehouse, where he is to be killed. However, Niko rescues Roman, who then wins enough money to live the American Dream - he first buys himself a penthouse in Algongquin. One of Jimmy Pegorino's goons, Ray Boccino, helps Niko to locate Florian Cravic, who reveals that he is a different man - he has changed his name to Bernie Crane, he is now an open homosexual and an aerobics instructor. Unfortunately, he is in a doomed relationship with Liberty City mayor Bryce Dawkins, who is being blackmailed for this (Dawkins built his campaign on family values) by Dimitri Rascalov. Niko manages to ward off the blackmailers, though not before Dimitri makes an effort to convince Niko to work with him again to expose them. Eventually, however, the United Liberty Paper, as thanks for Niko's work, find Darko Brevic, who was the real culprit for the betrayal of Niko's group. At this point, the player can choose between killing him or sparing him.

Ending
Following his encounter with Darko Brevic and closing the book on his past, Niko relaxes with a drink and makes plans to move on. As he is planning, Jimmy Pegorino asks Niko to do a drug deal for him, with his partner being none other than Dimitri Rascalov. If Niko does the deal, he will get $2.5 million. Niko is unsure as to whether he should do the deal or get revenge on Dimitri for his earlier betrayal and constant attempts at killing him. Roman would like him to do the deal and Kate McReary (the sister of Niko's friend, Packie McReary and former boss, Gerry McReary and Niko's new girlfriend) thinks he should take revenge. At this point, the player must choose which storyline ending to take:

Revenge storyline: Niko, deciding that doing the deal would go against his principles, goes to the Platypus (the boat he arrived in and where Dimitri is). After a lengthy gunfight, finally kills Dimitri in cold blood in the hold of the tanker. Roman does not lament on Niko's decision for long and weds his girlfriend, Mallorie. Kate McReary, who has, up until this point, only viewed Niko as a friend, starts pursuing a romantic relationship with him. Unfortunately, Jimmy Pegorino turns up at the wedding and, while trying to shoot Niko, misses and kills Kate. Niko then pursues revenge on him. A gunfight ensues at an abandoned casino and Jimmy escapes in a boat. Niko chases on a motorcycle and boards a helicopter flown by Jacob and Roman and chases Jimmy further. However, when Jimmy's boat sustains bad damage, an RPG is launched and hits the helicopter, causing it to crash. Niko then pursues Jimmy on Happiness Island and finally kills him in front of the Statue of Happiness. Niko then gets Jimmy's share of the $2.5 dollars that he would've got had he done the deal.

Deal Storyline: Niko, deciding that he should not let past scuffles get in the way of an enormous paycheck, meets Phil Bell (one of Pegorino's goons). Dimitri appears joyous at learning that Niko is working for him again. Deciding to keep the heroin for himself and Jimmy's mob, Dimitri betrays the buyers at his side and kills them. Niko and Phil are forced to take the money by force. They are successful and get the money. Roman is joyous at the amount of money he is getting, while Kate breaks up with Niko, realising that he will go against his principles for money. At Roman's wedding, however, an assassin turns up to kill Niko, and reveals that Dimitri has betrayed Niko again. Niko kills the assassin, but a gunshot goes off and Roman is killed. Devastated, Niko and Little Jacob go to an abandoned casino in Alderney and Niko witnesses Dimitri betraying and executing Pegorino. Dimitri escapes in a helicopter and Niko gives chase in a speedboat. Jacob flies a helicopter to Niko and Niko boards. Niko then chases Dimitri's helicopter. When Dimitri's helicopter is badly damaged, an RPG is fired and hits Niko's helicopter. Both helicopters crash on Happiness Island. Niko then kills Dimitri in front of the Statue of Happiness. -->
 * Notwithstanding that you missed a closing bracket, the proper place for this article would be Niko Bellic. Not sure if we have enough to create an article on him though. I left the deleted content in a hidden comment directly above this note. – xeno  ( talk ) 15:45, 29 October 2008 (UTC)


 * I think that a seperate article for Niko would make sense, we know more about Niko than we do about any other main character in GTA, and the one currently found here just seams out of place being longer than any other topic on the page. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 142.162.96.122 (talk) 03:40, 7 December 2008 (UTC)

SERIOSULY MAKE IT

please —Preceding unsigned comment added by 190.148.120.17 (talk) 01:38, 9 December 2008 (UTC)

Michelle?
Why is there no section in the character list for Michelle (later confirmed to be Karen)? I thought she was a very notable important character and should be mentioned here. Im very surprised she isnt. Ive read the article through 10 times to make sure she isnt, as i was convinced i must be missing it. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Redman747 (talk • contribs) 19:25, 19 November 2008 (UTC)

I second this.... this is such a GLARING omission... Bohsocks (talk) 03:06, 1 December 2008 (UTC)


 * Third. I'm less than 10% through the game so I can't write it but it should be there. -Etoile 19 June 2009  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.126.133.22 (talk) 16:37, 19 June 2009 (UTC)

Nikolai should be changed to Nikola!!!
Name Nikolai is Russian!

It has been proved by now that he is Serbain or Croatian or Bosnian.And nothing else.

His mother Milica has Serbian name.Language spoken on occasions inside the game is Serbian. He was in Bosnian war.Only three sides fought in that war.(Serbs,Croats,Bosnians)

So Nikolai name doesnt exist in ANY of those 3 cultures.(Croats,Serbs,Bosnians) Its exclusively Russian.

But name "Nikola" exists is Serbia,Croatia,Bosnia.

So it needs to be changed from Nikolai to Nikola~! —Preceding unsigned comment added by Ivica4 (talk • contribs) 19:42, 22 December 2008 (UTC)

Images
It is standard practice to remove images of characters from character lists, especially when there is no discussion of the characters' appearance, per the non-free content criteria- there is no critical commentary on the image, and the image can hardly be considered significant if the appearance of the character is not even worth discussing in the text. Using character portraits in character lists also opens the floodgates to allowing images for all the characters in the list, which is obviuously overuse. For more information, see the explanation and links found in this essay. I do not immediately see why this list should be treated any differently from others, nor do I immediately see any past discussion of the issue. I am removing the images again, and I would ask that they are not added back without decent explanation and reference to policy. J Milburn (talk) 18:29, 24 December 2008 (UTC)
 * First of all, see a small part of the previous, and very heated, debate on the issue (which has been referenced and several times at WP:NFCC and WP:AN, in case you think it's irrelevant). Let's not even get started on the whole "lists" debate. A prosaic list is different from a skeleton or table list (and so on and so forth). In fact, there's an idea to omit "list of" from the title, as some other such articles are doing, due to the constant clashes and issues arising from it, as it's really an article. There is also no consensus on it being "standard practice" to remove images from lists simply because they are "lists". Removing images from articles is a subjective process.
 * Secondly, this wouldn't open the floodgates to overuse as previous consensus (which applied to all similar articles covering this series) on the issue was that only primary characters can have images, and this is constantly monitored and images for secondary or tertiary characters are immediately removed to prevent overuse in this manner. So that's not really an issue here.
 * "Critical commentary" (if you would please care to give an exact definition on this, as no one at WP:NFCC seems to be able to) was present in the article at one point, but due to recent heavy vandalism and removal of sourced and other such content, it's been lost in the chaos. I'm sure you can see how bloated this thing is. We can add some sort of critical commentary back. -- .: Alex  :.  21:32, 24 December 2008 (UTC)
 * I agree. And I also think its time to open a discussion for all character pages for the GTA series. It would be best that way, and this way we could avoid any more lengthy and heated deabates in the future. JayJ47 (talk) 22:03, 24 December 2008 (UTC)
 * If there is decent sourced discussion of the character's appearances (or some other reason that a picture is necessary to have a full understanding of the text) I could certainly support the readdition of images for major characters. I can see that there is also significant discussion of the character themself, and, as you say, the images are there only for the major characters, meaning that the floodgates would not be opened. J Milburn (talk) 23:07, 24 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Note also that a good way to avoid this kind of discussion being rehashed is to make reference to the prose in the image caption (something like "The design of X character was based on Y, with the addition of Z") and to not use generic copy-paste rationales, instead explaining why that image is required, again with reference to the text and exactly what it is being used to illustrate. J Milburn (talk) 23:08, 24 December 2008 (UTC)


 * I'm sure that there were earlier discussions about this. Four images of major characters are certainly appropriate for a handful of reasons that I'm sure were already discussed here in more detail.  First, this article is an amalgamation of smaller articles and not some kind of bare bones list of elements.  All the images in question accompanied significant prose content.  Second, the images were only for major characters, ones that are essential to understanding the overall topic of characters in the game.  Is it really necessary to have this same conversation every six months?  Croctotheface (talk) 00:56, 28 December 2008 (UTC)
 * I'm personally quite happy to sit and have the same conversation until some decent reasons are provided for keeping the images, or the images are removed permanently. The fact that the characters happen to be major characters is inconsequential: that doesn't make their appearance any more significant than other characters' by default. If the characters' apperances are significant, then the images should be included. Otherwise, they should not be. Why do you believe the appearances are significant, and if they are so significant, how come there is no sourced commentary of the significance within the prose? J Milburn (talk) 01:12, 28 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Indeed - please point me to the policy that states that "four images of major characters ... are sppropriate". Because I can't find one. And then, explain how they pass all three ofWP:NFCC, WP:NFCC, and WP:NFCC. Thanks, Black Kite 01:13, 28 December 2008 (UTC)


 * Explaining why they pass those tenets was the whole basis of the conversation that happened a year ago and the rehashing of it that happened a few months ago. You can look back to those discussions, or the comment I just posted on the WP:NFC talk page, for those reasons.  Until then, I'm going to let others present their opinions lest this degenerate into three editors bickering.  Croctotheface (talk) 01:17, 28 December 2008 (UTC)
 * And I'm going to unwatch the page too. Black Kite 01:57, 28 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Just as well, seeing as time and time again you simply storm in, ignore all previous discussions and try to impose the same old view. J Milburn, you've actually been the most helpful and co-operative person I ever come across on the subject of images. I will come back to this very soon, but unfortunately I'm a bit busy what with the holidays and everything and can't get into the discussion properly. Just so you guys know I haven't disappeared. -- .: Alex  :.  12:00, 28 December 2008 (UTC)
 * I think we should all take a break and comeback to this discussion later. I agree with .:Alex:. J Milburn has been the most co-operative thus far. We should all take a break from dicussing to cool off a bit. JayJ47 (talk) 01:23, 29 December 2008 (UTC)

Have'nt we "cooled" off for long enough ? --Crypa (talk) 11:33, 24 January 2009 (UTC)

This is just clearly my opinion, but I'm still going to discuss this: Arguments will not solve anything. Removing images from the list of characters does NOT improve the article. This severely limits the "good article", thus hurts the reliability of improvising things right. So why don't we add images for the characters, so this way, it'll earn the "good article" again? If you prefer this article to become nothing but words, that's fine. Then it'll be a huge stub due to lack of images provided within this article. No images, no article improvement. It's all up to you guys. You can either improve this article by adding images of each GTA IV characters or just leave it empty and degraded. JMBZ-12 (talk) 20:24, 5 May 2009 (UTC)

Eastern Europe
Seriously, since when is Bosnia in Eastern Europe?! It is generally considered to be in southern or southeastern Europe. ffs, Yugoslavia was not even within the Eastern Bloc, and even that stretches the geographic definition. It is about as "east" as Vienna. A mistake by Rockstar is not an excuse to include incorrect information on an encyclopedia. -- DIREKTOR  ( TALK ) 19:10, 24 December 2008 (UTC)


 * Well Niko speaks Serbian and even Serbia isn't considered to be in Eastern Europe. I think saying he's from Yugoslavia is as noncontroversial as its gonna get, since Rockstar says "He's from that gray part of broken-down Eastern Europe, a war-torn area.". - europemayhem (talk) 21:18, 24 December 2008 (UTC)

Putting all family members under family name (minimizing table of content)
I think that the TOC is too long according to Wikipedia's guidelines, and we can minimize it and the article to an extent by putting all the families listed (McReary family, Faustin family, Petrovics) under their family name instead of listing every individual on the TOC. What about it? Birdeditor (talk) 01:57, 8 January 2009 (UTC)

Sounds like a good idea. MrTrent9484 (talk) 01:44, 10 February 2009 (UTC)

Nationality Revealed
It is said in the game that Florian served with Niko in the Kosovo war. Since Niko served there he is a Serb, because Croats or Bosniaks did not fight in that war. Also his mother's name is Milica which is a female Serb name. One cannot decide simply by speech alone seeing as Serbs living in Croatia speak differently than Serbs speaking in Serbia. Simply put, he served in the Kosovo War which means he's a Serb. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 216.99.63.159 (talk) 04:44, 11 January 2009 (UTC)

Images
Images of the main 5 characters pass NFC criteria8. WHY ARE THEY REMOVED ? --Crypa (talk) 10:50, 27 January 2009 (UTC)
 * No, they don't. The appearance of the characters was not discussed, there was no need for the images. J Milburn (talk) 17:44, 27 January 2009 (UTC)

So basically what you are trying to say is that unless a character has a particular deformity or something of the sort, the images are plainly for decorative purposes ? --Crypa (talk) 19:01, 28 January 2009 (UTC)
 * actually, iimages for GTA IV characters are crucial in this article, unless you wanted empty spaced article that contained no images, that's all right by me. The list of characters seems to be downgraded with lack of images of GTA IV characters. JMBZ-12 (talk) 20:19, 5 May 2009 (UTC)

Special friend abilities.
I've made a quick mention of the unlockable friend abilities for Roman, Jacob, Brucie, Packie and Dwayne, but in all honesty the only one of these i've ever used is Jacob's so i don't know enough about the others to explain how they work. Maybe someone would like to expand on the references and explain in more detail how they work. Also, i'm not 100% sure that my mention of friends needing to like you more than 75% is accurate, it may only be 70%.

MrTrent9484 (talk) 01:42, 10 February 2009 (UTC)
 * Actually, they've all got specific ability points and drop off points, and I've got them written down somewhere (for example, I think Roman might be 60% on and then drop off of 15%). I'm having a look at the article at the moment, seeing if there's any ways it can be improved... Will have a look at putting stuff in about that! -- WORM  MЯOW  09:20, 10 February 2009 (UTC)

Luis Lopez
Even with the fan theory of the Impossible Trinity achievement linking Niko, Johnny, and Luis, there is no confirmed information. It's all about speculation. If mentioned in his section, remove it under WP:CRYSTAL. Thanks guys The Phantomnaut (talk) 02:21, 11 February 2009 (UTC)


 * I've just added a paragraph to the Luis Lopez section relating to the "Impossible Trinity" achievement and before you all get on me about it, at least here me out: In the paragraph, I'm not saying that Luis WILL be the main protagonist of the second GTA IV expansion pack (without any official reference or source), but that fans BELIEVE that he will be the main protagonist. I'll let you see my edit for yourself so you don't have to go back to the article:


 * "There is fan speculation that Luis López may be the main protagonist of the second GTA IV episodic expansion pack. This might be hinted in Luis' numerous, yet minor appearances in the Grand Theft Auto IV universe and the "Impossible Trinity" achievement that is achieved after completing the GTA IV mission "Museum Piece" how (possibly) all three protagonists of the three games are coincidentally brought together in a dangerous situation. However, there is no official word that Luis will be the main protagonist on the second GTA IV expansion and currently remains a fan speculation."


 * May I ask that we keep this paragraph because, as I've said, I'm not saying that he's going to be the main protagonist of the second expansion pack but that there is fan speculation of it, which is a fact (I even note that there is no official word on it and that it's currently only fan speculation). I ask that we keep this because I feel that those reading about the character should know of this speculation and that it exists because if you haven't noticed, it's a pretty wide speculation among the GTA fanbase.~Madroxxide17 (complain) 19:17, 26 March 2009 (UTC)Madroxxide17


 * Confirmed, announcement of second episode. I am going to modify the info. The Phantomnaut (talk) 23:46, 26 May 2009 (UTC)

Johnny Kidnapped Roman
Read somewhere that rockstar have confirmed that Johnny Klebitz was the one who kidnapped Roman for the Russians, someone should put that in his article. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.233.51.31 (talk) 14:51, 16 February 2009 (UTC)
 * The Lost and Damned is not out yet, unless you provide a source. The Phantomnaut (talk) 23:03, 16 February 2009 (UTC)

Jon Gravelli?
Where's Jon Gravelli. 69.3.84.184 (talk) 15:44, 19 February 2009 (UTC)
 * Good question =) – xeno  ( talk ) 16:01, 19 February 2009 (UTC)

Ray Boccino
It says that Pegorino thinks he's "not good at organized crime" but both Bell and Pegorino say several times that he's a "good earner". I'm pretty sure Peg says he would've killed Ray long ago if he wasn't so good at earning money. 69.3.84.184 (talk) 16:13, 19 February 2009 (UTC)

The Lost and Damned Characters
Should we add the characters from the DLC into this section or should we create a new section? Saad64 (talk) 17:37, 22 February 2009 (UTC)

Well it's out and people beat it, so it's just a matter of time. Also it's part of the same universe as GTA IV so yes. The Phantomnaut (talk) 23:04, 27 February 2009 (UTC)

Fixxer!!
Under the headline Unseen Charachters, I find Fixxer/Phonebooth Guy/Assassin missing.

He is important in the last sequenses of the story.

Wellplaced near the Weapons dealer in Alderney.

85.167.3.206 (talk) 09:41, 6 March 2009 (UTC)

Fixxer/Phonebooth Guy/Assassin
This character fits in Unsseen, or supporting characters, not Minor characters.

85.167.3.206 (talk) 09:47, 6 March 2009 (UTC)

The Lost and Damned
I think that the Lost and Damned characters should have their own article. It is a separate story from Niko's centre, and by the time the second downloadable pack is released this article will be so full of characters it will be difficult to read them all and differentiate the characters that belong in which game.

Osh33m (talk) 02:19, 1 April 2009 (UTC)

Subways
Is the subway the fastest way to get around Libery City? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Easterneurope (talk • contribs) 00:20, 9 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Hi Easterneurope. Can I just remind you that this is a page designed to discuss improvements to the list of characters in GTAIV, it's not a forum for such questions, or to discuss the game in general Having said that, I always found the fastest way to get around was to take a taxi, and skip the journey. Takes seconds -- WORM  MЯOW  07:35, 9 April 2009 (UTC)

Faustin's name
Is Faustin's name in Russian the official one given by Rockstar? I happen to be Russian and I can say that his name should be Фаустин instead of Фостэн. The latter sounds more American than Russian. -- Gerinych 06:27, 15 April 2009 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Gerinych (talk • contribs)

Niko Bellić splitting
I'm proposing this under the following grounds:
 * The article is too long to start with at 96kb, and at the moment very diffucult to read.
 * Other protagonists such as Claude Speed and Tommy Vercetti have their own page, and Niko is notable enough to have his own article as the protagonist of GTA numbered game. Compared to some other articles on WIkipedia, the notability criteria is fulfilled.

A test version of the page which I am constructing in my userspace is here. If there is support for a split, I will move it to "live" Wikipedia. Feel free to edit the test version as you wish.

Thanks Tmwerty (talk) 16:29, 3 May 2009 (UTC)


 * Support per your rationale. There is enough coverage in RS to allow for a split. —Admiral Norton (talk) 17:37, 3 May 2009 (UTC)

Kenny & Lenny Petrovic
Are they Russian or Serbian? I'm asking because there is a Russian surname Петрович, that is typically transcribed as Petrovič/Petrovich, but there is also a generic Balkan (Croatian, Serbian, Bosnian, Montenegrin, etc.) surname Petrović/Петровић, which is pronounced differently and sometimes written in English as Petrovic/Petrovich. The article uses the Petrović version, but includes Russian Cyrillic versions, and, to add to the confusion, does not display sources for any version. —Admiral Norton (talk) 22:11, 3 May 2009 (UTC)

The article states that they are Russian, but as RS's are hard to find for such minor characters it will be difficult to check, going with the transliteration given be Rockstar in the manual/in game as a basis for whether they are Russian or Serbian will probably be the best solution.Tmwerty (talk) 22:23, 3 May 2009 (UTC)

Characters' ages
So.. why add ages for every characters in the game without any reason? if you are going to add ages, provide me links in order to know their characters' ages. if there is no proof, the ages will be removed, and it won't count as a vandalism. I mean that it will be removed due to lack of links. Also, their ages are never mentioned in the game, so there is no point in any way. So, if you think removing their ages is a severe mistake, then links are required to know if their ages are really true. JMBZ-12 (talk) 20:18, 5 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Almost all of the characters' ages from GTA IV has been removed, due to lack of any proof or sources at all. If you think that it was wrong to do that, then it is indeed that sources for the characters' ages are definately required. Do not bother going to GTA Wiki. These do not show any sources or proof of characters' ages. If you still cannot find any proofs of souces and links, then I suggest you should e-mail Rockstar Games and ask about characters' ages in GTA IV. JMBZ-12 (talk) 13:52, 7 May 2009 (UTC)
 * As said before, I will remove character's ages if there is no source of proof for characters' ages. Even if you have found the LCPD site, then can only be done on the PC version using Fraps. Any unsourceful edits will be deleted. JMBZ-12 (talk) 17:39, 9 September 2009 (UTC)

Spelling Mistake
Mafia is spelled Mafyia under the Roman profile. 68.82.162.148 (talk) 04:43, 8 June 2009 (UTC)

Characters' Birth of Year?
Seriously? Do you guys intend on adding birth of year for all characters? If so, then a source of proof is required so I will find out if that was true. If the source of proof from the birth of year for all characters are not there, it will be deleted. JMBZ-12 (talk) 21:44, 13 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Since there are no sources of any proof of characers' years of birth, it has been deleted. I would'nt reccomend going to GTA Wiki, since it shows no such source for characters' birth of year, thus being irrelevant. Do not make unconstructive proof for the characters UNLESS you have the source for characters' year of birth or ages. If there is no source of the two proofs, it will be deleted. I made the list of GTA IV characters remained as a stub. Since then, no images, no way of improving it. I'll leave the article suffer without images, since I tried adding them, but seems to me that nobody wants images to be in this article; if you guys want to make the article look empty, your loss then. i tried my best on improving the list of GTA IV characters. JMBZ-12 (talk) 00:12, 20 June 2009 (UTC)

Real Badman (Teafore Maxwell-Davies)
This character is credited, encountered both in the main storyline (along with Little Jacob) and as a side-mission character, and yet isn't mentioned in the article.

Make Roman Bellic "Can be killed"
The fact that he dies in one of the two endings should make it as if it were optional so to be Can be killed rather than Killed in. If he were say killed in a mission which you didn't have a choice not to do, then it should be killed in. The same can be said with Kate McReary. --Victory93 (talk) 23:05, 3 September 2009 (UTC)

Brucie's Sexuality
It says in the GTA 4 Characters article that Brucie might be Gay this is untrue the person who wrote that should find more evidenceAndrew nicholson (talk) 13:13, 6 November 2009 (UTC)


 * He continually reaffirms his sexuality without people actually asking him what his sexuality is, which is often a sign of projection; he believes that the stereotypical "beautiful woman" is perfect and that he will accept nothing less because that's not "how he rolls", which seems to be a mask for his general lack of attraction to females; he even works out and cares more about how he looks than the women that often surround him--which may, admittedly be an attribute of a narcissist, but he seems far more neurotic and to be suppressing his homosexuality to a larger degree than his narcissism is present. Oh, and he tries to kiss Luis during The Ballad of Gay Tony and comments that he would have sex with Roman "if - if I were gay!" I'm pretty sure it's clear to anybody who understands sexual undertones that Brucie is gay to an extent, though perhaps not outright homosexual. --AlbertWesker411 (talk) 20:17, 3 December 2012 (UTC)

Jacob
Someone refers to Jacob as a Patois. I think this is doubtful, as he is often referred to, even by himself, as a "Rasta" which is a Rastafarian. It is actually Badman who is a Patois, which Niko finds harder to understand than Jacob.

Too many spoilers
Can someone warn the reader for spoilers? 83.84.17.246 (talk) 22:19, 22 January 2012 (UTC)

Links
Rest in removing links to the GTA Wikia article. Several editors on the discussion page bitching example. of the site is unreliable to add information in the article and it will not be checking their source. If we must link to a similar site, it must be http://www.grandtheftwiki.com/Main_Page. Since, is made of defectors gta GTA wiki by almost all users obbakning because it was felt that kvalititeten became much worse and that the wiki was generally useless because of all the commercially pressed into, and therefore tried to keep a dead wiki going to make money. Although, today's wiki poorly Maintained. Website's former domain was gta.wikia.com, but it kept gta wiki. Just what I know from experience have experienced. There is not a personal attack on Wikia-business in general.--80.161.143.239 (talk) 18:13, 6 August 2012 (UTC)

Bas Rutten
I think that it should be mentioned somewhere that Bas Rutten plays a fictionalized version of himself in the game, as a television host of The Men's Room, featuring Jeremy St. Ives. --AlbertWesker411 (talk) 20:13, 3 December 2012 (UTC)AlbertWesker411

WHY WHY WHY
Why did someone get rid of the characters page????? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.209.215.77 (talk) 14:09, 27 September 2019 (UTC)

Change title and redirect
Could anyone change the article's title to "List of Grand Theft Auto IV characters". I think it sound better that way. Also, it would be appreciated if you could change all the redirects regarding characters and other stuff like that from the Grand Theft Auto IV article to this one.

OK, so I kinda messed up and unintentionally created a lot of redirect articles just because I wanted to move this one. Could anyone delte them (especially List of characters in Grand Theft Auto I)? — Preceding unsigned comment added by General Clanker (talk • contribs) 11:58, 17 April 2020 (UTC)
 * ✅ wbm1058 (talk) 18:04, 18 April 2020 (UTC)