Talk:List of House members of the 41st Parliament of Canada

Sorting with rowspans
Regarding Peter Goldring and the rowspan, I thought that it wouldn't sort either. However, before I reverted it, I tested the rowspan version to see what would happen, and it actually worked! When I sorted by name, it duplicated all of Goldring's fields and put one Goldring in the Conservative group and one in the independent group. I tested it logged out and it worked there too, so it's not just my preferences. I'm pretty sure that tabled used to fail when we tried to do this, so I guess class="wikitable sortable" has been upgraded. —Arctic Gnome (talk • contribs) 04:10, 8 December 2011 (UTC)
 * Huh, I didn't know that. Now if only I could remember all of the articles in the past I've wanted to sort, or use rowspan on, and couldn't. 117Avenue (talk) 04:45, 8 December 2011 (UTC)

Peter Goldring's party
We have to decide how to list Peter Goldring's party on this page (and on 41st Parliament of Canada). You could make a valid argument for either side: only listing official parties or listing the self-designated labels of independents. If we choose to only use official parties, we'll have to go through the 40 other lists of MPs to standardize them, because in those articles there are many people who are labelled as "Independent Liberal" or "Independent Conservative", and in the 1800s there are several MPs who made up party affiliations for themselves, like Conservative Labour. My vote is to label him as an "Independent Civil Libertarian" because even though it's not a party, the Parliament website is allowing him to use the label. —Arctic Gnome (talk • contribs) 01:15, 22 December 2011 (UTC)
 * To be honest, I'm a bit confused by it. I didn't think that the Parliament of Canada would recognize a party that wasn't registered in any way. "Independent Civil Libertarian" is probably the best way to go, but, again, for the past politicians the Parliament of Canada only lists independents with affiliation for affiliations with registered parties. I am just blown away that the Parliament of Canada would list a made up party, I don't know how to handle it. 117Avenue (talk) 01:33, 22 December 2011 (UTC)
 * I'm a bit confused too. I think I remember reading somewhere that only senators could self-designate (like the PC members did after that party dissolved). But, Parliament's webmaster seems to have allowed Goldring to do so on two pages ( and ) while keeping him an independent on two ( and ). Buddy Conservative-Labour from 1875 got to use his new title on the website . If we can find a document from the speaker, the house clerk, or the sergeant-at-arms that specifically says that he has no party affiliation, then that would overrule the website, but until then the anonymous webmaster is our best source, and they seem to be allowing it. —Arctic Gnome (talk • contribs) 02:00, 22 December 2011 (UTC)
 * As far as I know, only Elections Canada can recognize a party and he is still an Independent. This is the name of a caucus (that he made up one day?). Are there any formal rules on caucuses? maclean (talk) 02:08, 22 December 2011 (UTC)
 * Only Elections Canada can recognize a party for the purpose of elections, and probably also for taxes. However, I think things work differently in Parliament. For example, MPs get a higher salary if they are a party leader, party house leader, or party whip, but for that purpose parties are recognized by the Board of Internal Economy, which has set the bar at twelve members, the same as for official party status. That board might also determine unofficial party status. Then again, it might be the Clerk of the House of Commons (Canada) or the Speaker of the House of Commons of Canada who makes the call. This will require some research. —Arctic Gnome (talk • contribs) 02:40, 22 December 2011 (UTC)
 * Oops, I didn't see this discussion when I made my revert. I was just trying to make the "Members" and "Membership changes" section consistent with each other.  I'm not opposed to either option, just want it to be consistently applied.  TDL (talk) 05:09, 23 December 2011 (UTC)
 * Oh, look. A news article has appeared to explain the situation: Edmonton MP Peter Goldring now a 'Civil Libertarian' maclean (talk) 20:01, 3 January 2012 (UTC)
 * This isn't anything new. The Democratic Representative Caucus for example --Þadius (talk) 01:12, 7 January 2012 (UTC)

It is now reported that Civil Libertarian was an error, and several sources now call him an Independent Conservative. 117Avenue (talk) 06:15, 26 January 2012 (UTC)

Caucus/Party Listing
The caucus affiliation should be listed the same as the official parliamentary website shows. Therefore, Bruce Hyer should be listed as "Independent" as opposed to "Independent NDP". — Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.65.156.22 (talk) 00:06, 28 April 2012 (UTC)
 * Agreed. As of now, Hyer is Independent and Goldring is Independent Conservative. If anyone wants to change that, they'll need a source that trumps the Parliament's website. —Arctic Gnome (talk • contribs) 00:54, 28 April 2012 (UTC)
 * They both voluntarily left the caucus but retained party membership, I don't see why they would list Hyer as Independent. 117Avenue (talk) 04:17, 28 April 2012 (UTC)
 * Their reasons that the two picked different caucus designations is irrelevant. Unless you have a source that says Hyer's official designation according to Parliament's website is wrong, we have to copy Parliament's website. Labelling him as being a member of the caucus that we think he should be in violates WP:V and WP:OR. If I had to guess, I'd say that the two MPs requested different caucus designations because Goldring intended to keep voting with his party after being kicked out, whereas Hyer purposely left in order to vote differently from his party on some issues. But whatever the reason, ignoring a primary source isn't really an option for us. —Arctic Gnome (talk • contribs) 23:30, 28 April 2012 (UTC)

Note
I've had to revert two different editors making erroneous edits to this article within the past two weeks, so I'm just posting a note here to remind everyone that this list refers to the 41st Parliament, the one that was set by the 2011 election and dissolved by the 2015 election. Do not "correct" this list to reflect MPs who were newly elected in 2015, such as Darrell Samson, or new ridings that only came into being with the 2015 election, such as changing Stephen Harper's riding to Calgary Heritage — the list's purpose is to reflect what was true between 2011 and 2015, not what was changed by the 2015 election. There is a separate list, at List of House members of the 42nd Parliament of Canada, for the MPs and riding names that are reflected in the current Parliament. Bearcat (talk) 01:24, 4 January 2017 (UTC)

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