Talk:List of Israeli flying aces

Mistakes
Abraham Shalmon only have 14.5 victories and Giora Epstein, according to the IAF site is still the top ace of Israel.Ingsoc 09:01, 15 April 2007 (UTC)

almost no single information in cited, and some egyptian pilots mentioned in ACIG.org that should be included, but the article do not include any egyptian pilot.


 * You are welcome to add sourced info on Egyptian aces. --Daniel J. Leivick (talk) 09:01, 17 June 2008 (UTC)


 * That's right, but that does not mean that the article do mention them right now. One last pharaoh (talk) 14:52, 17 June 2008 (UTC)
 * From what I can see at ACIG.org no Egyptian pilot has been credited with more than three kills. Are there other sources. --Daniel J. Leivick (talk) 19:17, 17 June 2008 (UTC)

NPOV tag
perhaps I'm missing something, but what is the NPOV issue here? The article seems to be a starightforward, factual list of pilots and their claimed kills - what POV is being intorduced here? Canadian Monkey (talk) 19:49, 20 June 2008 (UTC)
 * One last pharaoh says the list is not neutral because it lacks any Egyptian pilots. That may be true, but he will have to produce sources that indicate there are any Egyptian aces.  I looked into on ACIG.org and couldn't find any pilots with more than three kills credited to them. --Daniel J. Leivick (talk) 20:21, 20 June 2008 (UTC)
 * as I wrote in my edit summary, incomplete information is not the same as POV. This is a simple list, with no opinions presented, nor are any of the facts disputed. There's no issue of NPOV here. I'll replace the tag with amore appropriate one. Canadian Monkey (talk) 20:33, 20 June 2008 (UTC)
 * I agree. --Daniel J. Leivick (talk) 20:39, 20 June 2008 (UTC)

Bot report : Found duplicate references !
In the last revision I edited, I found duplicate named references, i.e. references sharing the same name, but not having the same content. Please check them, as I am not able to fix them automatically :) DumZiBoT (talk) 10:15, 12 August 2008 (UTC)
 * "p11" :
 * Israeli F-4 Phantom II Aces, Shlomo Aloni, p.31, Osprey Publishing , 2004
 * Israeli F-4 Phantom II Aces, Shlomo Aloni, p.11, Osprey Publishing , 2004


 * 358 aircraft altogether... And not a single Arab ace... This just has to be propaganda... —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.208.202.140 (talk) 14:01, 10 December 2010 (UTC)
 * show evidence of arab aces. show evidence of "propoganda" and then start accusing. facts are all that matter. if you have them, show them.

Neutrality
Being neutral does not mean just listing accurate information. The title says Arab-Israeli war yet we only see Israelis not a single Arab Ace! Were they just sitting ducks or did they fight? Or were the Israeli pilot invincible? I did hear about at least two Arab aces a Syrian and an Egyptian. Mentioning them would have made you neutral.
 * As has been said before, if you have a reference for an Arab ace, please provide it. -- Daniel 00:22, 11 May 2011 (UTC)

14.5?
How can someone have a .5 something kill?--75.74.107.88 (talk) 11:47, 20 August 2011 (UTC)
 * Shared aerial kills occur when more than one pilot hits a target and it is not possible to credit a single pilot with the victory. It that case individual pilots are credited with fractional shares of the kill. It's a British and American practice from WWII. Poliocretes (talk) 07:17, 22 August 2011 (UTC)

Proposed move

 * The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section. 

The result of the move request was: moved. Article titles should generally reflect their contents; if the article content changes then a name change is not inappropriate. DrKiernan (talk) 19:51, 15 November 2012 (UTC)

List of flying aces in Arab–Israeli wars → List of Israeli flying aces – to reflect the actual scope of the article, which is a list of Israeli flying aces. Relisted. Jenks24 (talk) 06:25, 4 November 2012 (UTC) Relisted. BDD (talk) 17:32, 17 October 2012 (UTC) -- Brown HairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 07:11, 25 September 2012 (UTC) However, specialists of the Egyptian/Syrian air efforts could create their own pages for claimed Arab aces, and the new pages would stand or fall by the strength of their own sources. I think "list of flying aces of Israel/Egypt/Syria" etc is more logical. just having a list based on a series of wars, without regard for individual nationality will turn into an endless wearying struggle against nonsense. Irondome (talk) 21:09, 25 September 2012 (UTC)
 * opposed - a quick look in the history of this article and in the talk page shows there's an ongoing debate about the veracity of claims regarding Arab aces. Right now they've been removed, but that's not to say they won't be making a comeback. Besides, the nationality of the aces is of lesser importance than the context of their victories, at least in my opinion. Poliocretes (talk) 08:11, 25 September 2012 (UTC)
 * I support the move Irondome (talk) 18:52, 25 September 2012 (UTC)
 * Poliocretes first point, is however, compelling. If reignites old and bizzarely sourced claims and arguments, then I oppose.


 * Support. If and when the article scope is expanded to actually cover flying aces in Arab–Israeli wars and not only Israeli flying aces, the move can be reversed accordingly. The correct title for the current article is List of Israeli flying aces. No use crystal balling over what the future might bring. --84.44.182.148 (talk) 21:38, 6 November 2012 (UTC)
 * Nicely put. Totally agree. Irondome (talk) 22:29, 7 November 2012 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The crystal ball has now cleared
Hello, all,

Now that there is a List of Egyptian flying aces and a List of Syrian flying aces, the redirect page for List of flying aces in Arab–Israeli wars is misleading as it points only to List of Israeli flying aces.

Georgejdorner (talk) 18:16, 24 December 2012 (UTC)


 * Done. Cheers, &Lambda; u α  (Operibus anteire) 01:33, 3 July 2013 (UTC)
 * Cool. Looks like the other pages are fairly stable and factual too and a great improvement. Multi-national lists create rivalries and edit warring. Seperating seems to chill things out. Thanks for putting the work in. Cheers! Irondome (talk) 02:01, 3 July 2013 (UTC)