Talk:List of Italian American sportspeople

Wrestlers shouldn't be here. It's not a sport
Professional wrestling is not sport. It is sports entertainment. Outcomes are predetermined and not based on true competition. Those Italian Americans listed from other sports are being insulted by being in the same list. HiLo48 (talk) 00:46, 11 April 2010 (UTC)


 * I have removed this incorrectly titled section. It should be Professional Wrestling, which is not a sport. HiLo48 (talk) 21:04, 16 April 2010 (UTC)


 * User Hmains is arguing (on his talk page because I went there to get his attention) that Professional Wrestling IS a sport and that the category tree tells us so. I don't know what he means by the category tree, and I want to return the discussion to its rightful place. The category tree is not something obvious to a casual reader. The text of the Professional Wrestling article seems to go to great pains to not say it's a sport. It is described in the lead as "sporting theatre", not sport. Only one category I can see hints at any connection with sport. It says "Sports entertainment". No category says sport in any simple way. HiLo48 (talk) 04:59, 17 April 2010 (UTC)


 * Sorry about last night so I will explain. All articles in WP are placed into one or more categories--shown at the botton of the article.  All WP categories make up the 'category tree' as the categories are connected together.  Each category can have children making a parent-child/category-subcategory relationship.  Children inherit the attributes of their parents.  Same with grandchildren of a parent and so on.

In this case, there is a parent category named Category:Sports. Sports has a child named Category:Sports culture, which has a child named Category:Sports entertainment, which in turn has a child named Category:Professional wrestling. This makes professional wrestling a sport in the WP category tree. This structure or parts is perpetuated down through other categories. Example, see Category:Sports in the United States, which includes Category:Sport in the United States by sport, which includes Category:Wrestling in the United States.

Of course, WP editors are not allowed to just create categories and their relationships just because they feel like it. The category tree must be supported by the contents of articles, which must in turn be supported by references. I see that the Professional wrestling article says it is a type of 'sporting theater'; based on that, the category structure is probably right.

I work on categories in general, and have no particular interest in, or knowledge of, wrestling. Whether the WP articles are right or wrong, I do not know. I am just showing what exists and if something is to be changed in WP structure, one has to start somewhere other than a low level article. Doing so at a low level looks just like personal opinion, which is not how WP articles are supposed to be written or edited. Hmains (talk) 17:42, 17 April 2010 (UTC)


 * I'm sorry, but I still cannot see what you're talking about? WHERE is this category tree. It's NOT visible in the article, which goes to great pains to NOT say wrestling is a sport. HiLo48 (talk) 21:40, 17 April 2010 (UTC)


 * At the very bottom of the article are the categories to which an article belongs. It is not that this article is in the sports category tree I describe above, it is that Professional Wrestling is in the category tree which, when you move up the tree (or up though several level of parents, gets to Sports. By the rule of inheritance, this makes Professional Wrestling a sport in WP--which neither you nor I have to agree or disagree with, I am just pointing what WP says. Hmains (talk) 01:56, 18 April 2010 (UTC)


 * That is not a response to anything in my last post up above. Please read what I posted again. You may be an expert on Categories. I'm not. (Nor would most readers be.) I still have no idea what you are talking about. Want to try again? WHERE is this category tree? It's NOT visible in the article...... HiLo48 (talk) 02:09, 18 April 2010 (UTC)


 * I am sorry, but I tried the best I can. You may want to read Wikipedia:Categorization and ask questions there.  Perhaps someone there can satisfy your requirements. Hmains (talk) 02:16, 18 April 2010 (UTC)


 * Can you not answer the simple question "WHERE is this category tree?" If you expect people to look at it, you have to be able to tell us where to look. Not impressed.


 * And I'm beginning to feel that, if the evidence you proclaim is so well hidden, my original point that brought us here is proven, so I will go ahead and again remove Professional Wrestlers from this article. HiLo48 (talk) 02:20, 18 April 2010 (UTC)


 * You are beginning to make argumentative statements. I suggest again that you seek other assistance to learn what WP is about and not proceed in the fashion you are now suggesting.  You will see no benefit in doing so. Hmains (talk) 05:54, 18 April 2010 (UTC)


 * I made a claim. You counter-claimed that I was wrong, but cannot point me at the evidence you claim exists to demonstrate your view. That is not an argumentative position on my part. That is simply you being unable to back up your argument. I do not want an argument. I'm happy to learn. But your claim appears to be unsupported. HiLo48 (talk) 06:01, 18 April 2010 (UTC)

Since we've just had yet another actor added to this article, I think it's time to review this matter. I still think that having pro wrestlers (actors) here is an insult to the real sports starts in the list. HiLo48 (talk) 10:52, 22 August 2010 (UTC)


 * Let's try this again. I gave up last time due to irrational argument.


 * Professional wrestling is not sport. It should be removed. HiLo48 (talk) 23:45, 18 June 2011 (UTC)

One more try. Any rational discussion? HiLo48 (talk) 21:42, 5 July 2011 (UTC)


 * It's time to boldly remove. HiLo48 (talk) 04:57, 9 August 2011 (UTC)