Talk:List of Kansas State Wildcats head football coaches

Changes by User:Kgwo1972
I have reverted all changes by the above user. Here are my reasons: Please, lets discuss any future changs before making them to the list.» NMajdan · talk 15:17, 29 May 2010 (UTC)
 * This is already a Featured List, which means it has been voted on my members of the community as being among Wikipedia's top lists. Any significant changes should be discussed on the talk page first.
 * The changes made make it inconsistent with the other Big 12 coaches lists, which hurts its chances of becoming a Featured Topic.
 * Several of the changes are uncited. For example, the user above added conferences championships to coaches Ahearn and Lowman. According to the KSU website, Ahearn never played a conference game so winning a conference championship would be impossible. Lowman played in five conference games but lost them all. Again, hard to win a CC when you don't win a conference game. The user uses the College Football Data Warehouse as a reference, however, I feel the records of Kansas State University itself should trump CFBDW.
 * The user above added College Football Hall of Fame credentials to those that won it as a player. This is a list of coaches and they're playing time has no relevance. I feel this is merely an attempt to add a bit of POV to the article. No other list considers a coaches playing days nor do I think it is relevant.
 * The user modified some of the names of the coaches. I do not have as big of an issue with this, however, it should be known that I used the names as they were listed on the Kansas State Athletic website.
 * The user changed the wording regarding the coach of the year awards. I feel the modified language is misleading and inaccurate. Without going back and double checking, I don't believe Snyder won consensus CoY awards, meaning, he didn't win every single CoY award that year. He won several and all of them came after the 1998 season.
 * Several data ranges were changed from YYYY-YYYY to YYYY-YY. Some were changed, but not all. All other Big 12 coach list used YYYY-YYYY, so why change them?
 * I have reverted the page back to my changes. I made a number of other corrections to the text that are not addressed at all above, and if you want to changes some of my edits, please only change SOME of them.  For example, if you read the Kansas State Wildcats football page, you will see that there is some dispute in the sources about when Kansas State "started playing organized football."  (1893/1894/1896)  My wording is more accurate on this point.  Likewise, the point about splitting away from the MVC is more nuanced and better explained in my text.  (See Missouri Valley Conference history.)
 * My changes were not uncited as you say. I cited the CFDB and the Manhattan, Kansas newspaper for the other championships.  KSU was in fact in a conference prior to the MVC, the Kansas Collegiate Athletic Conference, as that page on wikipedia makes clear.  By the way, I didn't add it here, but here is yet another source for the 1912 championship -- an article on the history of college football from the Kansas State Historical Society.   (See page 298 as to KSU championship.)  So, the majority of legitimate sources are clear on supporting my changes, and I know for a fact the KSU media guide (let alone website) is not infallible as I have worked with them in the past to correct other errors -- and I have already contacted them to correct these over the upcoming summer.
 * I am OK with only having HOF coaches highlighted, but the criteria as currently stated is "Elected to the College Football Hall of Fame." To be clear, it should add at the end "As a Coach" or something to that effect.  Otherwise, it is innaccurate to not have the designation added to every coach on the list in fact "elected to the College Football Hall of Fame."  Moreover, I clearly stated in the text those coaches on the list that were elected as players rather than coaches.
 * The KSU media guide is inconsistent about the names of coaches. Sometimes it (accurately) names the coach as Reuben F. Booth and sometimes it (wrongly) calls him A.A. Booth.  Wikipedia is correct about the coaches' names on their own pages, as shown also by this on-line link to Willard's definitive history of KSU.  (See pages 499-505.)  KSU's athletic department sources are inconsistent, while the others are consistent in giving the names correctly.  I think this page should use their correct names.
 * I changed the wording for the coach of the year award because it was inaccurate as written ("Snyder is the only coach to have won national coach of the year honors, with all of them awarded after the 1998 season"). Snyder also won national coach of the year honors in 1991 (ESPN) and 1994 (CNN), according to the KSU media guide itself.  Vince Gibson was also Playboy's national coach of the year in 1970 according to the guide (as was Snyder in 1998).  I used the word "consensus" to distinguish Snyder's other awards in 1998 from these.  If another word is better, then we can use it, but the sentence as originally written was inaccurate.
 * I changed some date ranges in order to make the chart appear better on certain monitors. If consistency trumps that issue, then I'm fine with changing it back.
 * Let me know if you still have any issues. Thanks.
 * -Kgwo1972 (talk) 16:23, 29 May 2010 (UTC)


 * Comment My take on it is that there's a lot of changes here for a list that is already a featured list. I can understand some of the changes, I disagree with others.  Off the top of my head, I'd say "in the Hall of Fame" is "in the Hall of Fame" and that's that.  Names of coaches should be as correct as possible.  As to style, matching the other Big 12 coach lists would be preferred in my opinion.  Perhaps we should revert to the old "featured" list version and then build the new article in userspace.--Paul McDonald (talk) 18:59, 31 May 2010 (UTC)
 * OK. How does that work, and what's the next step after that?  I haven't gone through that process before.  There are material and documented factual errors in the "featured" list version, so I'd rather not leave it out there for a long time. -Kgwo1972 (talk) 12:53, 1 June 2010 (UTC)

Move discussion in progress
There is a move discussion in progress on Talk:List of Texas Tech Red Raiders head football coaches which affects this page. Please participate on that page and not in this talk page section. Thank you. —RM bot 07:46, 20 August 2010 (UTC)

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 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20100216091548/http://cfbdatawarehouse.com/data/div_ia/big12/kansas_state/coaching_records.php to http://cfbdatawarehouse.com/data/div_ia/big12/kansas_state/coaching_records.php

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