Talk:List of LGBT and LGBT-friendly fraternities and sororities

Changing inclusion criteria
I think we should change the inclusion criteria from only organizations with a wikipedia article to any national organization. When I did the List of social fraternities and sororities, I set it up so that any organization that is a national organization (at least 2 chapters) could be included, regardless of notability. Local organizations could be included if they have a current wikipedia page. To me it makes sense since there aren't all that many LGBT organizations. Thoughts? Bali88 (talk) 17:16, 14 April 2015 (UTC)
 * I completely agree.Naraht (talk) 17:46, 14 April 2015 (UTC)


 * So, how long should we wait for additional feedback? Bali88 (talk) 19:41, 15 April 2015 (UTC)
 * I'd seek out the person who actually last deleted things and if he/she doesn't respond, a week from your original posting (so the 21st).Naraht (talk) 11:25, 16 April 2015 (UTC)
 * It's been two weeks since my original post, so substantial time has passed and no one else has responded. I'm hesitant to include that person in the discussion. The only reason they made the deletion is because they were involved in the AFD for the article and when I spoke to them, they referred to the members of the sorority as "dykes". I realize wikipedia is for everyone, bigots included, but I don't feel that someone who would use that type of language freely and publicly is the type of person who will contribute anything helpful to this article. If we need additional opinions, we can ping any of the major editors on the article or post this on the LGBT wikiproject talk page. Bali88 (talk) 20:55, 16 April 2015 (UTC)
 * What on earth do you mean "involved in the AFD for the article"? This article has never been discussed at AfD. Faggot and dyke are two words that have been in the English language with the meaning of gay for a long time. The word queer has definitely been reclaimed and the reappropriation article suggests that dyke may be heading the same way. I do not consider dyke in any way insulting. I fully support LGBT ideas, movements, etc.
 * However I disagree that any national organization should be included, regardless of notability. Wikipedia is not a directory. If a national organization is notable, it will have its own article here and can be included in this list. Otherwise it does not deserve mention here. &mdash; RHaworth (talk · contribs) 11:10, 17 April 2015 (UTC)
 * Perhaps I was mistaken, I assumed you were involved in the deletion of gamma zeta rho. There may also be cultural differences here that I'm not aware of, but dyke is not acceptable language everywhere in the world and is considered an offensive slur to many people. I will post this discussion on the LGBT wikiproject to get a clearer consensus on the topic. Bali88 (talk) 13:30, 17 April 2015 (UTC)


 * Wikipedia has established practices for including items in a list. Considering Manual_of_Style/Stand-alone_lists, in my opinion the least surprising choice for this list would be including only those organizations which meet Wikipedia's notability criteria.  Blue Rasberry   (talk)  13:41, 17 April 2015 (UTC)
 * Hello! I am a total neophyte and clueless about how to operate Wikipedia talk. I most certainty didn't want to edit the article myself as one not initiated into Wikipedia's rules. I just was reading the Wikipedia article for Sigma Phi Epsilon, and I noticed the article says they voted to welcome transgender men in 2014. It uses the minutes of the meeting where the vote happened as a source. I found another source which I imagine does not comport with the Wikipedia standards, but corroborates and claims they were the, "First Men’s Fraternity to Adopt Clear Transgender Policy." I don't know more; I just wanted to serve what I read to someone who knows the rules and the current agreement on the Talk page about what should and shouldn't be included.
 * Thanks! 2600:8803:7B04:BF00:C0EE:BD1B:97E5:13A2 (talk) 06:05, 22 June 2023 (UTC)
 * Shoot, I didn't paste the link to the article I mentioned: https://fraternallaw.com/newsletter2/sigma-phi-epsilon-becomes-first-mens-fraternity-to-adopt-clear-transgender-policy
 * Thanks again! 2600:8803:7B04:BF00:C0EE:BD1B:97E5:13A2 (talk) 06:06, 22 June 2023 (UTC)

Friendly vs. Emphasis
I am currently working on moving the lists to tables and have noticed some issues. Because more groups now specify that they allow non-binary and trans, the sectional divisions of women, men, and all genders are no longer inclusive of male and female-only groups that now allow non-binary and trans. Yes, I know trans women are women and trans men are men, but you get my point. One solution is to merge into a single list--I will be able to tell better if that will work after merging the lists into respective tables. For now, I am changing the header for Organizations for Women to Sororities and Women's Fraternities (labeling the type of organization rather than the type of member). Any thoughts or suggestions will be helpful.

Also, in reading through the above conversations, I agree that national policies of inclusivity are more common. However, accepting LGBTQ+ as members does not make an organization an LGBTQ+ fraternity or sorority. Just as accepting African Americans or Jews did not change traditional GLO into a group with that cultural identity. Furthermore, diversification of traditionally all white GLO did not significantly change the functional and role o what are considered cultural GLO. In this article, I think it is important to identify and recognize GLO that are LGBTQ+ by mission and culture, not by broad-minded pledging policies. I am also not convinced that professional and honor societies that have always been co-ed should fall under this article's heading just because of changes to constitutions. Firstly, that would require duplicating the majority of those lists which and, again, being welcoming and friendly is not the same thing as an organization focused on a specific culture. If others feel there is a need for it, we could have another table for groups that are "friendly" in policy, but I almost feel it is false advertising for some of the larger groups to claim that every chapter is welcoming and friendly to the LGBTQ+ community. Rublamb (talk) 04:34, 5 February 2023 (UTC)

Non-notable organizations
I have removed the following organizations that have no Wikipedia article, no website, no source, or noncollegiate/local/newer. I am copying here so others can potentially restore to the article at a later date if notability can be confirmed. There are still other organizations that should be cut on grounds of notability, but I left those that have been around for a while, have numerous chapters, or national coverage--even if they lack a Wikipedia article.

Rublamb (talk) 10:25, 5 February 2023 (UTC)
 * Sigma Psi Omicron. Sorority, non-collegiate. empowering those who self-identify as women
 * Chi Kappa Psi, Women's professional fraternity for masculine-of-center-identified lesbian
 * Chi Upsilon Omega, 2013, Atlanta, Georgia, Sorority local, transgender women
 * Delta Psi Eta, Professional sorority, feminine lesbian women
 * Omega Rho Theta, Women's fraternity for dominant lesbian women and trans men
 * Phi Alpha Nu, 2006, Charlotte, North Carolina, Women's fraternity, Inactive
 * The Society of Femmes, Multicultural organization, lesbian, bisexual, straight, feminine women, Inactive?
 * Xi Theta Kappa, 2017, Memphis, Tennessee, Sorority Local, lesbian women of color
 * Alpha Nu, Philippines, Social fraternity, all who identify as men, regardless of sexual orientation
 * Alpha Delta Epsilon, Sorority Local, cis women, non-binary, and transwomen
 * Phi Sigma Phi (ΦΣΦ) - Epsilon Lambda Chapter (ΕΛ) - inclusive fraternity open to male-identified individuals from all walks of life, including trans men, that respects all pronoun choices and sexual orientations.
 * Alpha Kappa Pi, 2008, Montgomery, Alabama, Sorority, black and brown lesbians
 * Pi Kappa Psi, Sorority, feminine and transgender women, old web http://pikappapsi.org/home.html
 * Psi Lambda Theta, a Multicultural faith-based sorority, LGBTQ welcoming
 * Tau Delta Psi, 2009, Tuskegee, Alabama Service, sorority, lesbian, bisexual women, queer women, and women who do not label their sexual orientation
 * Gamma Zeta Rho,GAMMA BOIZ,	2012, Los Angeles, California, Women's fraternity, non-collegiate,Local, LGBT aggressive lesbian
 * Theta Pi Psi, 2012, Dallas, Texas, Women's fraternity, Local, masculine of center women and transmen
 * Zeta Psi Zeta, 2012, Sorority, Local, those who identify as feminine women and are willing to support the LGBT community
 * Pi Upsilon Phi, 2021, Fraternity, non-collegiate, transgender man at any stage of transition.
 * Delta Delta Phi, Sorority, non-collegiate, Regional, 	open to persons identifying as female, lesbian, bisexual, and heterosexual females
 * Sigma Alpha Pi, 2010, Fraternity, Local, Must live strictly as a masculine, aggressive, stud, transmale, or cis male
 * Sigma Xi Theta, 2012, Women's fraternity, non-collegiate, dominant lesbian
 * Omicron Psi Omega, 2000, Tallahassee, Florida, 	Women's fraternity, masculine-of-center-identified lesbian
 * Nu Tau Beta, Carson, California, Women's fraternity, non-collegiate, lesbians who identify as masculine of center or butch, transmen, and androgynous
 * Kappa Omega Phi, 2008, Montgomery, Alabama, Sorority, non-collegiate, dominant lesbian women
 * Eta Epsilon Gamma, ΗΕΓ, 2009, Jackson, Mississippi, Sorority, African American, non-collegiate, LGBTQ community who were assigned female at birth and identifies as lesbian, bisexual, or cis-gender, Inactive
 * Eta Iota Mu, HIM, 2009, Jackson, Mississippi, Women's fraternity, African American, non-collegiate, masculine, identified cis-gender women and openly transgender males, Inactive
 * Alpha Psi Kappa, Tallahassee, Florida, Women's fraternity, service	National, masculine-presenting lesbian women
 * Alpha Omega Kappa, Richmond, Virginia, Social fraternity, non-collegiate, transmen in any stage
 * Kappa Iota Sigma, 2014, San Jose, California, Service sorority, non-collegiate, transgender women with a female gender identity during any stage of their transition
 * Nu Phi Zeta, 2009, Hammond, Louisiana, Social fraternity; non-collegiate, progressive men of all sexual orientations