Talk:List of Last of the Summer Wine episodes

Series 9
There seems to be some confusion over the transmition dates for Series 9.

The BBC comedy Guide suggests 1987, following the special "Merry Christmas, Father Christmas", but the official BBC book "30 years of Last of the Summer Wine" gives the dates as 1986, before "Merry Christmas, Father Christmas".

The Official LotSW appreciation society website http://www.summer-wine.com/summer-wine/episodes.htm gives the 1986 date as well.

The website epguides.com http://www.epguides.com/Lastofthesummerwine/ also uses the 1986 dates.

This website http://ichuddersfield.icnetwork.co.uk/0500summerwine/0200characters/index.cfm?page=3 gives Eli's first appearance in Jaws the 1986 date

IMDB gives the 1987 dates

So i'm going to change the dates back to 1986, as that seems to be the majority concensis, unless other clearer evidence can be found -- The preceding unsigned comment was added by 80.177.121.177 (Talk) on 00:48, 10 March 2007.

Just brought to my attention is a BBC1 Junction Video Clip from "Merry Christmas, Father Christmas" (28 December 1986) on YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jfzJnj0Atdc) which very forcefully points at 4 January 1987 for start of Series#9 with "Why Does Norman Clegg Buy Ladies' Elastic Stockings?". 1987 does seem most authentic given that for that year dates are Sunday applicable. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Frankmoyes (talk • contribs) 14:42, 24 February 2009 (UTC)

Cleanup
I've added templates to the article since it has become extremly long and has inconsistent style, with some series in tables and others in lists. I'd like to hear ideas on how to fix this problem, as I know the article has become so long because of how long :Last of the Summer Wine has been on the air. -- Redfarmer (talk) 18:15, 27 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Well, the whole list should eventually be in tables, i'll try and complete that. As you say, it is a long article, but I don't see any way to fix that.  The seasons are really too short to split up into articles of their own.  I think we'll just have to accept that it's a long article. Paul 1978 (talk) 19:50, 27 November 2007 (UTC)
 * OK, I've changed the article so it's all in tables, and i've removed the cleanup tag. Hope that's ok...I think the article length is something we can't do anything about...I don't see a problem with the length though, there's no way to split it & all the info belongs on this page.Paul 1978 (talk) 20:54, 27 November 2007 (UTC)
 * What if, instead of splitting up in series, it's split up by decade, e.g. "List of Last of the Summer Wine episodes from the 1970s"? -- Redfarmer (talk) 23:05, 27 November 2007 (UTC)
 * It's an option...to be honest I'd prefer just to keep the article as it is. It's all one subject, It's split into subsections so you can jump to whichever series you like.  It's tidy and readable now.  I'm looking at the guidelines for article length, and the length issue is aimed at readable prose.  I think an episode list (even with synopsis) falls outside these guidelines and into the exceptions which are mentioned in the footnote, specifically the "tables, list-like sections".  Just for comparison, the List of Star Trek: The Next Generation episodes is 57kb long, the List of Star Trek: Deep Space Nine episodes is 61kb, the List of Friends episodes is 109kb long.  My gut feeling is that for episode guides, it's best to keep it all on one page. Paul 1978 (talk) 01:29, 28 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Flat out, this is way too long, and the star trek examples are proof of overly long wikis, NOT justification for this one. Star trek should be redone too.  Man, those pages are just stupid.


 * And this is NOT all one topic.


 * What do you call it when a topic has sub categories? For example:


 * Wikipedia <-- the main page
 * Wikipedia:Contents <- related sub page
 * Wikipedia:Featured content <- related sub page


 * That's what we need here. Example


 * Last of the Summer Wine
 * Last of the Summer Wine:Episodes <-- just the basic list
 * Last of the Summer Wine:Season 1 <-- and etc. with the details


 * At the momement, imdb has all these series beat hands down. And this has been getting worse, not better.  I'm not a wiki pro or I'd fix it myself.  And I'm just learning about LOSW so I don't have the info to fill in the pieces.  But as it stands, wiki will be the last place I'll come for info. - Vic


 * I'm sorry, I totally disagree. The rules clearly state that tables and "list-like sections" are excempt from the guidelines.  The page IS all one topic, it's entirely about the episodes of LotSW.Paul 1978 (talk) 10:29, 28 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Suggest you take a look at List of The Simpsons episodes. The most basic details only are in the main list, with spin off articles for plot summaries. The JPS talk to me  11:36, 28 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Well, I can see what you mean, but having a list linking to individual articles is a fine situation for a program like "The Simpsons" which has lots of real world references in it. For LotSW, most articles would be just a plot summary, and those sort of articles usually get redirected back into an episode list like the current format, because the episodes are non-notable. I still maintain that the present page is the best way to have the information. Paul 1978 (talk) 20:48, 28 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Ah, sorry, not quite what I meant. I meant that there is the parent list with the most basic information on, with further sublists with plot summaries. So, you could keep this complete list, and have additional child lists by decade/series 1-5/or whatever is best. The JPS talk to me  21:51, 28 November 2007 (UTC)


 * I've been off getting Last of the Summer Wine up to good article status so I'm going to try and do some cleanup on this page. I want to base it on List of The Simpsons episodes, which is a featured list. If anyone objects to anything I do, just yell at me. Redfarmer (talk) 01:32, 20 January 2008 (UTC)
 * OK, here's what I have in mind for episode lists broken down into individual pages: User:Redfarmer/Last of the Summer Wine (series 1). Of course, there will be more information in the header, probably a picture of the box set, and references when all is said and done. Descriptions could also do with some revision. Let me know what you think! Redfarmer (talk) 03:41, 20 January 2008 (UTC)
 * I'm confused; are you intending to have a separate page for each season, because that would be a lot of pages. You could perhaps group them by which trio it is Ged UK (talk) 12:34, 20 January 2008 (UTC)
 * It's a lot of pages but it's not undueable (look at The Simpsons, who have been around eighteen years but had twice as many episodes as LOTSW). What I'd be concerned about with a grouping such as by trio is that it would create rather arbitrary groupings. For example, the "Compo-Clegg-Blamire" grouping would only have about twelve episodes. Meanwhile, the "Compo-Clegg-Foggy" grouping would have episodes from two different eras of the show. The first time he was on the show, it was only a handful of characters but by the time he returned, the supporting characters had more than doubled in size. Plus, what would you do with the episodes of the quartet years-"Clegg-Truly-Billy-Alvin"? Redfarmer (talk) 16:25, 20 January 2008 (UTC)
 * Well, tbh, that's what's confused me! The Simpons episode page is one single page with all the episodes on, which additionally links to separate pages for each season. Are you proposing copying that, so one single page with all the seasons and episode titles, with links to separate pages for each season which contains the short descriptor text? If so, I think that's a great step forward; currently the big issue with the epsiode page is that the decriptions really stretch it out. Ged UK (talk) 18:15, 20 January 2008 (UTC) EDIT: OK, having now read the talk section properly (should have done that first!) I see that this is what you mean! I say Go for it! Ged UK (talk) 18:18, 20 January 2008 (UTC)

2007 Christmas Special
Radio Times covering up to 4th January 2008 has been published. There is no reference to a Christmas Special (nor a New Year Special for that matter). Is the entry here of a 2007 Christmas Special authentic?Frankmoyes (talk) 21:11, 14 December 2007 (UTC)
 * The BBC website for Last of the Summer Wine (http://www.bbc.co.uk/comedy/lastofthesummerwine/) says at the top "look out for the 2007 Christmas Special", so presumably one has been filmed. Paul 1978 (talk) 02:09, 16 December 2007 (UTC)

SPECIALS ON BOXED SET SERIES 9 & 10

The page is currently showing that Specials 'Uncle of the Bride', 'Merry Christmas, Father Christmas' and 'Big Day at Dream Acre' will be on boxed set due out 5th May 2008. However, suppliers are specifying only 'Big Day at Dream Acre' and 'Crums'. What is source of information being used here? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Frankmoyes (talk • contribs) 08:13, 18 March 2008 (UTC)

Series 9 and 10 Boxset
The page is currently showing that Specials 'Uncle of the Bride', 'Merry Christmas, Father Christmas' and 'Big Day at Dream Acre' will be on Series 9 and 10 boxset due out 5th May 2008. However, suppliers are specifying only 'Big Day at Dream Acre' and 'Crums'. What is source of information being used by contributor here? Frankmoyes (talk) 14:37, 20 March 2008 (UTC)

Latest information does indicate that the list of Specials, 'Uncle of the Bride', 'Merry Christmas, Father Christmas' and 'Big Day at Dream Acre', is correct. However, it now looks as if calling it Series#9 and Series #10 is a bit of a misnomer. It would appear that it will contain only the twelve 1986 UK Series #9 episodes along with the Specials. There will be none of what UK calls Series#10 (from 1988). Frankmoyes (talk) 13:03, 31 March 2008 (UTC)

Series 9 & 10 Boxset and Series 16 and 17
The Series 9 & 10 Boxset is now on the street and does not contain the six episodes from what is designated Series 10 on the subject page. The Series Overview needs to be amended accordingly.

It should be noted that on this Boxset, 'Uncle of the Bride' is designated Christmas Special 1995, not New Year Special 1996.

In the Series Overview Series 16 is dated 1994 but in two other places it is dated 1995.

Is the Note about Series 16 and 17 correct? What is stated seems to apply to Series 9 which becomes Series 9 & 10 when exported (and is now the case with the latest Boxset DVD). See http://www.bbcprograms.com/pbs/catalog/lastofsummer/loswdesc.htm. Frankmoyes (talk) 09:22, 6 May 2008 (UTC)
 * I'm not quite sure what you're talking about but "Uncle of the Bride" was the film in 1986 that introduced Michael Aldridge, Thora Hird, Mike Grady, and Sarah Thomas to the show. Redfarmer (talk) 12:16, 23 May 2008 (UTC)

Regarding Series Numbering
Some controversy is apparently erupting over the number of series, specifically regarding the 1986 series. What has happened is BBC Sales has broken up series 9 into two series for the purpose of international and DVD distribution. However, there are still only 28 series to date. The evidence:


 * Bright and Ross's Last of the Summer Wine: The Finest Vintage list only 21 series as of 2000.
 * The BBC's programme site lists the series which concluded last September as series 28.
 * The number of 28 is accepted by sites such as IMDB and TV.com.
 * The number of 28 is accepted by reputable news sources such as The Guardian..

I would ask that we not accept the revisionist account by BBC Sales, the commercial distribution arm of the BBC, as they only seems to be to show potential buyers they are getting more for their money, not to accurately depict the actual history of the show. Above all, any changes to the current numbering need to be sourced or it is original research. Redfarmer (talk) 23:34, 28 May 2008 (UTC)

Episode Numbering
To harmonise numbers specified for current Series#29, with which I agree, Comedy Playhouse Pilot will need to be designated Episode#1 and errors in numbering of subsequent episodes will need to be corrected. For example, there are two episodes nubered #20 and two #28Frankmoyes (talk) 15:45, 8 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Is numbering the pilot as episode one standard procedure? Where are the numbers for S29 coming from anyway? Ged UK (talk) 15:49, 8 July 2008 (UTC)

Main Last of the Summer Wine article specifies 270 episodes as of 6 July 2008. To get that number the pilot needs to be included (as has always been the case with this programme). In any event, it was an episode of Last of the Summer Wine, after all. In process of checking episode numbering, noted that Series#5, Episode#6, "Here We Go Into The Wild Blue Yonder" is missing from list. To get harmonisation, last episode of Series#15 "Alladin Gets on Your Wick", needs to be Episode#128 (increment by four). Frankmoyes (talk) 16:03, 8 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Why is harmonization with that number necessary? What if that number is wrong? Redfarmer (talk) 02:44, 27 August 2008 (UTC)


 * This is all now taken care of and tidied up. When I wrote the above "Alladin Gets on Your Wick", was the latest episode to be numbered.  Now all subsequent episodes have been numbered and the errors I pointed out corrected, complete episode numbering is fine.  The current final total of 278 is generally accepted and consistent. Situation resolved and OBE. Frankmoyes (talk) 09:26, 4 September 2008 (UTC)


 * OBE? --Ged UK (talk) 09:43, 4 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Overtaken By Events. Frankmoyes (talk) 10:01, 4 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Ahh. Ta :) --Ged UK (talk) 10:02, 4 September 2008 (UTC)
 * I hate to be difficult but I still disagree that the pilot episode should be numbered as episode one. It is not episode one of LOTSW. It's episode one of series 17 of Comedy Playhouse. Redfarmer (talk) 14:10, 1 October 2008 (UTC)


 * I partially concur but feel we get into semantics here. I agree that it is not episode one of LOTSW. It is the Pilot episode. But it is an episode of LOTSW and should be included in a count of the total number of episodes (which comes to 278). This is supported by the fact that the applicable UKTV channels have frequently broadcast it as LOTSW. I admit that against that is the fact that it has not been included on any LOTSW DVD. Specifying the total number of episodes is the only reason for the numbering. I would never designate "Short Back and Palais Glide" as the second episode (or the first for that matter). It is Series#1, Episode#1. Likewise, "Forked Lightening" is not episode#7 or episode#8. It is Series#2, Episode#1. Maybe to resolve this the applicable column should be headed Episode Count instead of Episode No. Frankmoyes (talk) 19:21, 13 October 2008 (UTC)


 * I think that's a very sensible solution. I've never been particularly comfortable with calling Of Funerals and Fish a pilot anyway. A pilot to me implies that the episode was used as a test to see what the audience felt. I'm not sure (and the article doesn't make clear) whether this was the intention; I've always thought Comedy Playhouse was considered more of a showcase of writer's talent. But that's a side issue: episode numbers aren't important in an of themselves when each episode has a title; what matters more is the total episode count. --Ged UK (talk) 06:45, 14 October 2008 (UTC)

Smiler
Should it not be recorded that final episode of Series#28 is Smiler's last appearance. Stephen Lewis article notes he left in 2007 due to ill health. Frankmoyes (talk) 16:12, 8 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Off the top of my head, it was in, and I think I took it out because it was unsourced. If it's sourced in Lewis' article, then fine, but otherwise it's just speculation (though probably accurate). --Ged UK (talk) 17:01, 8 July 2008 (UTC)