Talk:List of Mario franchise characters/Archive 2

Requested move 4 July 2020

 * The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this section. 

Characters in the Mario franchise → Mario characters – The article is no longer a simple list. ~ Arkhandar (message me) 00:16, 4 July 2020 (UTC) —Relisted.  P.I. Ellsworth   ed.  put'r there 12:12, 12 July 2020 (UTC)
 * I've taken the liberty of moving it, as I do not think it is a controversial move. - Bryn (talk) (contributions) 13:59, 4 July 2020 (UTC)


 * Comment. This request appeared in the Malformed requests list because the original current page, List of Mario franchise characters, was renamed to Characters in the Mario franchise, and the former became a redirect to the latter. So I altered this request accordingly. The nominator,, can withdraw this request or let it continue to run as it is, at their discretion.  P.I. Ellsworth   ed.  put'r there 17:12, 4 July 2020 (UTC)
 * please respond to the question, "Do you or don't you want to continue this request since the original "list" title has been recently renamed?" If there is no response from you, this move request may result in a procedural closure, and the current title would remain in place. Thanks in advance!  P.I. Ellsworth   ed.  put'r there 18:35, 8 July 2020 (UTC)
 * I'm not entirely familiar with Wikipedia's naming guidelines in this case: the "main" article being Mario (franchise) (with "franchise" being a disambiguation descriptor and not part of the name itself), and this one being about characters in that franchise. So, it would make sense to name it Mario characters, since the disambiguation descriptor would no longer be needed. But perhaps there's a rule that would justify the Characters in the Mario franchise or Mario franchise characters. I'm not sure ~ Arkhandar (message me) 13:37, 9 July 2020 (UTC)
 * Characters in the Mario franchise is more clear as to what it means, and such articles tend to use that format. - Bryn (talk) (contributions) 17:06, 9 July 2020 (UTC)
 * this appears to be a choice that is made by consensus, because I see both forms used in the categories. There is even a . I have no preference either way, though I love the games and Mario, Luigi, et al. If you decide to let this request continue until it is relisted or closed, then we'll have to wait and see if a consensus for this title change can be achieved.  P.I. Ellsworth   ed.  put'r there 05:55, 10 July 2020 (UTC)


 * Oppose current move; most articles go with this format, and I do not find "Mario characters" to be descriptive enough. - Bryn (talk) (contributions) 16:00, 12 July 2020 (UTC)
 * Oppose The proposed title could also mean "Characters named Mario". Not descriptive enough.ZXCVBNM (TALK) 09:17, 13 July 2020 (UTC)
 * Oppose per Bryn and Zxcvbnm, the name is inappropriate and not descriptive enough. Namcokid  47  (Contribs) 20:49, 15 July 2020 (UTC)


 * The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Pauline Split
I've been working on a draft for the character Pauline who first appeared in the game Donkey Kong. I think she is notable enough to become an independent article due to being one of the first females in video games and first damsels in distress, and continues to be in the Mario vs. Donkey Kong series. She is also the singer of the two lyrical songs in Super Mario Odyssey and has had a resurgence in recent years. I would continue with the article however there is so much information here already, that its hard to continue with the draft. I would propose either a split from this article to the draft or just a request for help on the draft. I hope to hear back. Captain Galaxy  22:32, 21 September 2020 (UTC)

Split the page
To me, this page should be restructured. Super Smash Bros. Ultimate depicts several characters (like Mario, Peach and Daisy) as "Super Mario" characters while Yoshi is considered as a "Yoshi series" character. In my opinion, we should split the page and have a "Characters in the LuigiYoshi/Wario/DK/ (ect..) series" here and only keep the lead and main characters appearing in main games AND spin-offs of the "Super Mario" series. For instance, it would mean that DK characters would not appear on this page, while Luigi would appear here and on a page called "Characters in the Luigi series" with more details about his games and the characters featuring in. I think that would be easier since there are a lot of characters (main, antagonists...) in each series. — Preceding unsigned comment added by TeenSacha123 (talk • contribs)
 * No, leave it as is. That would just cause to much confusion and clutter. Plus, most spin off series, with the exception of Wario, don't have a lot of unique characters (also DK already has one). This article is meant to list characters who fall under the umbrella Super Mario franchise. Also, has Sakurai even mentioned why he split Yoshi from the Mario series, there are barely any characters in the Yoshi series that can qualify as characters besides maybe Kamek and Poochy? Captain  Galaxy  17:43, 26 September 2020 (UTC)

The picture is too old
The image is too old compared to the current appearance of the characters and also because some new characters were introduced/became relevant through the time. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Wizard2222 (talk • contribs) 20:10, 12 October 2020 (UTC)

Who put that Luigi is hated by Masahiro Sakurai with no Evidence to back it up?
Until there is a credible source that states it I'm going to remove that sentence — Preceding unsigned comment added by Suggsman (talk • contribs) 20:12, 2 November 2020 (UTC)

Gooper Blooper?
I've been editing the Paper Mario articles, and I've noticed that Gooper Blooper, a boss, appears twice in the series. Not only that, in Super Mario Sunshine too, where they originate. Wouldn't they be considered a supporting antagonist, due to multiple appearances in the franchise? Le Panini [🥪] 14:54, 15 December 2020 (UTC)

F.L.U.D.D
Should F.L.U.D.D. have his own section? He has a voice.. but is he a character or a gimmick? MarioFyreFlower (talk) 20:53, 22 March 2021 (UTC)

"Foreman Spike" listed at Redirects for discussion
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Piranha Plant
I don’t know where I should start this topic so I’m starting it here. Why doesn’t Piranha Plant have its own article? It’s one of the most reoccurring enemies in the Mario series, only behind Boo in total appearances last I checked. It’s playable in Super Smash Bros Ultimate and Mario Tennis Aces, it deserves an article by now. — Preceding unsigned comment added by GalaxyPedestalFan (talk • contribs) 23:22, 9 November 2021 (UTC)


 * It looks like it's been added. Also, what a coincidence I stumble upon this exactly a year after posting! Realtent (talk) 20:00, 9 September 2022 (UTC)

Need of List Criteria
Hello! So while going through the article, I noticed many characters who have basically only appeared once in the Mario series are on here (such as Wart who most people only know as being in America's Super Mario Bros 2 Super Mario Bros USA in Japan ) which means that this article is in desperate need of a list criteria as that is essentially what this article is. Along with that, details that are unimportant to the character (Such as them being on some kind of top 10 or something) need to be removed. I'm fairly sure I've removed most of the unimportant details just going through the article, however it may still need to be cleaned up. ― Blaze The WolfTalk<sub title="Discord Username" style="position:relative;right:22q">Blaze Wolf#6545 14:12, 24 September 2021 (UTC)

Agreed. I'm wondering as well if the subsection on Mario himself needs to be so long since he has his own separate article. I think everything after his first paragraph could reasonably be cut but I'm hesitant to make such a large change without input. Crowslang (talk) 22:49, 20 June 2022 (UTC)


 * Hi there, I stumbled across this page on my suggestions, and I think 'Mario' should only have 1 section (probably the first), or the 3 sections should be condensed into a summary section. Any thoughts? Realtent (talk) 19:52, 9 September 2022 (UTC)
 * I agree. If people want more information they can continue to Mario's full article. Either remove the subsections or condense it into one section. Landfish7 (talk) 08:59, 10 September 2022 (UTC)

List criteria (again)
Anyone more familiar with list criteria have an idea of what that might look like for an article like this? I'd like to get the ball rolling on it but I'm not sure where to start. Landfish7 (talk) 07:23, 19 September 2022 (UTC)
 * And it seems to be something that has been contentious and confusing in the past, based on previous discussions in the talk page archives. So that does make me worry a bit about the feasibility of it. Landfish7 (talk) 07:26, 19 September 2022 (UTC)
 * All that being said, as a start, I feel like the non-boss antagonist section at the very least should be limited to the following criterion: Every entry meets the notability criteria for its own article in the English Wikipedia. The list feels too long and arbitrary as it is right now, and I feel like limiting it to just the ones that have a full article prevents it from turning into an exhaustive list of Mario enemies, or worse, a random assortment of Mario enemies.
 * Additionally, I feel like a case could be made for this criterion covering the whole article, though it would mean potentially removing Luma, Toadette, Captain Toad, Lumas (species), Poochy, E. Gadd, Nabbit, Toadsworth, Kamek, King Boo, Wart, Cackletta, Petey Piranha, Tatanga, and Kammy Koopa, among the aforementioned Mario enemies.
 * However, I'd argue the following:
 * Luma and Lumas (species) could be merged into Rosalina's section
 * Toadette, Captain Toad, and Toadsworth could be merged into Toad's section
 * Poochy could be mentioned in Yoshi's section
 * E. Gadd and King Boo could be mentioned in Luigi's section
 * Kamek and Kammy Koopa could be mentioned in Bowser or the Koopa Troopa species section
 * Some of the other Mario enemies could be merged into certain sections as well, such as Magikoopa being merged into Koopa Troopa, and Goombrat into Goomba.
 * I feel like I could be on to something here? I may consider mocking up what this could look like in my userspace or sandbox. Thoughts? Landfish7 (talk) 07:44, 19 September 2022 (UTC)
 * Forgot a few characters. Nabbit can probably be cut. Wart can probably be cut as well. Cacklette can be cut. Petey can be merged into Piranha Plant. Tatanga can be cut. Many of the basic Mario enemies can be cut. Landfish7 (talk) 08:20, 19 September 2022 (UTC)
 * I'm not sure the best way to showcase a proposed rewrite of this article. Am I allowed to copy and paste this text into my sandbox or a userspace subpage and make the changes there? Landfish7 (talk) 08:54, 19 September 2022 (UTC)
 * Hey thanks for letting me know about this (Even if it was at 3 AM for me). I had attempted to do this in the past but gave up since no one really showed interest. ― <b style="background:#0d1125;color:#51aeff;padding:1q;border-radius:5q;">Blaze Wolf</b>Talk<sub title="Discord Username" style="margin-left:-22q;">Blaze Wolf#6545 13:23, 19 September 2022 (UTC)
 * In regard to the above: Yes Luma and LUmas (species) should be merged into Rosalina's section (heck they're even presented as one character in Super Smash Bros Ultimate). So should Toadette, Captain Toad, and Toadsworth since, well, they're just unique toads. Poochy should also be mentioned in Yoshi's section. E. Gadd and King Boo I'm not sure about since they're exclusive to Luigi's Mansion (excluding E. Gadd's logo appearing on the brush Bowser Jr uses in Sunshine) Kamek and Kammy Koopa should probably be mentioned in the Bowser section. I disagree with Magikoopa being merge into Koopa Troopa since they are more different than just like a red koopa or Paratroopa. But Goombrat can be merged into Goomba. Nabbit should be cut since he doesn't really appear much outside of spinoffs, Petey can be merged into Piranha Plant, Tatanga can be cut since he's never appeared outside of the game he was in. Also, just link your sandbox. ― <b style="background:#0d1125;color:#51aeff;padding:1q;border-radius:5q;">Blaze Wolf</b>Talk<sub title="Discord Username" style="margin-left:-22q;">Blaze Wolf#6545 13:27, 19 September 2022 (UTC)
 * Here's a link to my sandbox. This is a very early proof of concept so I'm definitely open to any suggestions or significant alterations that may need to be made. There are a few different ways that this could be approached, and some information can probably still be condensed or thrown out. I've merged Lumas (species) and Luma into Rosalina. I've put Toadette, Toadsworth, and Captain Toad under Toad for now, but it may be possible still to merge the sections more elegantly. I've similarly put Poochy under Yoshi. I've tentatively included E. Gadd and King Boo under Luigi, as they are most relevant to him. I've kept Magikoopa separate for now, but this does make him one of the only characters without an English Wikipedia article to be included under their own bullet/section, but I could definitely see one being made some day. Oh, and I misread the article and noticed Goombrat is already merged into Goomba lol. I went ahead and cut Nabbit. And I've placed Petey under Piranha Plant. I've also cut Tatanga. Please feel free to let me know your thoughts! Landfish7 (talk) 22:15, 19 September 2022 (UTC)
 * Oh, and I forgot to explicitly mention that I've put Kamek and Kammy Koopa under Bowser for now. Again, some of their information can probably still be condensed and merged better into Bowser's text, rather than having separate paragraphs, if necessary. Landfish7 (talk) 22:22, 19 September 2022 (UTC)

When everyone is awake and has a moment, I'd like to hear more thoughts on what I've got so far. Still very open to suggestions. Otherwise, I'm tempted to be bold and cut through the red tape and just create a live version and see how it goes, as I feel the version I have now is at least an improvement to what is currently published on the actual page. I'll definitely give this several days to give people time to discuss it, though. So please do share! Again, my draft can be found in my sandbox. Landfish7 (talk) 07:47, 24 September 2022 (UTC)

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Cleanup
Should the cleanup template be removed from this article? This article has changed a lot since August 2011, and with no cleanup reason specified, I see no point in keeping the template up. If there is something that the article needs to be improved upon, the template should be updated with the relevant reasoning. Landfish7 (talk) 22:45, 3 October 2022 (UTC)

Magikoopa
Getting started on a Magikoopa page if anyone would like to help me expand it. Landfish7 (talk) 04:15, 4 October 2022 (UTC)

Intro
I think the intro should be rewritten/condensed. It also needs to have the selection criteria made clear, but I'm not sure the best way to incorporate it into the intro's prose. Any help with this would be appreciated. Landfish7 (talk) 06:27, 20 October 2022 (UTC)

Proposed change of list criteria
I propose changing the list criteria for this article from having a standalone article to one in which a character must fulfill any of the following:


 * 1) The character must have their own article (e.g. Vivian)
 * 2) The character must have appeared in at least five Mario games, in any sub-series (e.g. Kamek)
 * 3) The character must have had an unquestionably major role in at least one Mario game, in any sub-series (e.g. Olivia)

This is to bring the list more in line with its counterparts for other franchises.

Any thoughts are appreciated. DecafPotato (talk) 18:42, 15 November 2022 (UTC)
 * I disagree a bit about the third point, because that invites a large number of characters from the RPG games. For example: Count Bleck, Grodus, Cackletta are major villians in their respective games but are not particularly notable or covered by reliable sources. --ThomasO1989 (talk) 19:26, 15 November 2022 (UTC)
 * Yeah, I can see that. It also may invite a lot of subjectivity. DecafPotato (talk) 20:34, 15 November 2022 (UTC)
 * How about we get rid of the third point and then change the number of appearances in 2. from five to four. <b style="background:#f5b836;color:#d12b1f;padding:1q;border-radius:5q;">Pizzaplayer219</b>Talk<sub title="C" style="margin-left:-22q;">Contribs 21:29, 15 November 2022 (UTC)
 * Sounds good. Unless there are any objections, the list criteria will be as follows:
 * The character must either have their own standalone article, or appeared in at least four Mario franchise games of any sub-series.
 * I've been bold and made the change. DecafPotato (talk) 03:19, 16 November 2022 (UTC)
 * I’ve make an edit request for an edit notice here. <b style="background:#f5b836;color:#d12b1f;padding:1q;border-radius:5q;">Pizzaplayer219</b>Talk<sub title="C" style="margin-left:-22q;">Contribs 18:25, 16 November 2022 (UTC)
 * Done, but for future reference please make such requests at the article talk page rather than creating a pointless talk page for the editnotice itself.  — SMcCandlish ☏ ¢ 😼  06:41, 17 November 2022 (UTC)
 * According to here it says that I have to request it on the talk page of the edit notice. <b style="background:#f5b836;color:#d12b1f;padding:1q;border-radius:5q;">Pizzaplayer219</b>Talk<sub title="C" style="margin-left:-22q;">Contribs 13:13, 17 November 2022 (UTC)

"List of Paper Mario series characters" listed at Redirects for discussion
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I created it. Hope you enjoy!😊 Hackecas001 (talk) 23:40, 1 December 2022 (UTC)

Bob-Omb and Shy Guy
Looking at the enemies list, I find the lack of these two enemies to be very notable given how frequent their appearances are, both in series and out. They're rather well known overall, so it surprises me that they aren't properly listed. Pokelego999 (talk) 20:55, 23 October 2022 (UTC)


 * Being well-known isn't enough for them to be considered notable. They need information about them from multiple published sources that are in-depth (not just passive mentions about them), reliable, secondary, and independent of themselves. In other words, they need to have been analyzed and discussed at length by multiple trustworthy sources that aren't published by Nintendo or its affiliates. If you could provide such sources indicating notability, then maybe they can be added. But for now that remains to be seen. Landfish7 (talk) 03:36, 24 October 2022 (UTC)
 * I think shy guy and bob-omb should have their own pages too. SBlol493 (talk) 22:21, 21 April 2023 (UTC)
 * Please read what Landfish7 said directly above. What they said is correct for figuring out what characters have their own page. Sergecross73   msg me  22:46, 21 April 2023 (UTC)
 * Alright, Thank you for replying though. SBlol493 (talk) 23:05, 21 April 2023 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 25 April 2023
The first citation needed under the "Toadette" section regarding spin-off games should be changed to cite the games section of the website "https://play.nintendo.com/themes/friends/toadette/" LizeratorOneMillion (talk) 19:20, 25 April 2023 (UTC)


 * gotcha lizerator Buchweizenfeld (talk) 21:20, 25 April 2023 (UTC)

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Removal of Nabbit
Why was Nabbit removed? He apparently didn’t fit the criteria? He has appeared in more than 4 games: New Super Mario Bros. U, New Super Luigi U, Mario Golf World Tour, Super Smash Bros. For Wii U, Mario Party 10, Mario and Luigi: Paper Jam, Mario & Sonic at the Rio 2016 Olympic Games, Super Smash Bros. Ultimate, Mario and Luigi Bowser’s Inside Story + Bowser Jr’s Journey, Dr. Mario World, Mario Kart Tour, and he will be appearing in Super Mario Bros. Wonder. If there is another reason, then feel free to tell me, but I checked the criteria, and he fits in. Hackecas001 (talk) 14:54, 2 September 2023 (UTC)


 * His announcement for Wonder seems like a major, playable role too. I'm not understanding the removal either. Sergecross73   msg me  15:10, 2 September 2023 (UTC)

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