Talk:List of Monogatari novels

Titles
I think it would be good if we explained what the prefixes to monogatari mean. Like how Bakemono=Ghost and Nisemono = Imposter in most common translations. Some are explained on the main page but others are missing explanations. Having them all here would be ideal. Ranze (talk) 18:15, 24 September 2012 (UTC)

Requested move

 * The following discussion is an archived discussion of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section. 

The result of the proposal was no consensus. There doesn't seem to be a good chance of the original proposal gaining consensus, though the series of moves outlined by Juhachi may be worth discussing. --BDD (talk) 16:27, 1 August 2013 (UTC)

Monogatari (novel series) → Monogatari series – (Or "Monogatari Series.")
 * It's called "Monogatari series," including in the article, so the article should be named so. Other examples of titles ending with "series" include The Darkness Series, Star Wars live-action TV series, as well as the Japanese interwiki link for this article, ja:〈物語〉シリーズ (Monogatari Shiriizu).--Makkachin (talk) 01:04, 25 July 2013 (UTC) Makkachin (talk) 01:04, 25 July 2013 (UTC)
 * Strong oppose why the novels? the TV anime has also been suggested for the proposed name (see Talk:Bakemonogatari) Further "Monogatari" is senseless, since the article we have on Monogatari has nothing to do with the suggested title. Further there are several series of 物語 -- 76.65.128.222 (talk) 06:12, 25 July 2013 (UTC)
 * I don't know where to start. What do you mean "why the novels?" What do you mean "Monogatari" is senseless? I am not sure what you are in favor of. Status quo? Status quo is "Monogatari (novel series)." It currently has the term "Monogatari" in the title and it's about the novels. I am simply suggesting that it be titled what it's called: "Monogatari series." Update: the series is called "物語シリーズ", pronounced "Monogatari Shiriizu" in Japanese. In fact, that's the titled used in the Japanese Wikipedia, to which I've already linked. Of the novel series, one of the books is titled "Bakemonogatari." This title was used for the first season of the TV series spin off from this novel. Anime fans got to know the title "Bakemonogatari" first before "Monogatari Series". Yes, that's true. However, the novel series is called "Monogatari Series". From the beginning. In Japanese. Officially. It's the only name for the novel series. It's not called "Monogatari" because that would be ambiguous. As commented, "monogatari" is a generic term. That's why the series is always called "Monogatari Series" in Japanese. Because of the Japanese language. Officially, the only name for the series in Japanese. It's not "It shouldn't be called "Monogatari Series" because of the Japanese language." No. It should be called "Monogatari Series" because of the Japanese language. That's what it's called. --Makkachin (talk) 20:32, 27 July 2013 (UTC)
 * "Further 'Monogatari' is senseless, since the article we have on Monogatari has nothing to do with the suggested title." I mean... the current airing anime is called Monogatari Series: Second Season. How much more does Shaft need to spell it out before people can finally realize that nope, Bakemonogatari is NOT the name of the series? 24.109.252.101 (talk) 17:48, 28 July 2013 (UTC)
 * Japanese 物語 (monogatari) is not a name but merely means "story", and in Japan and elsewhere there are many story serieses. Anthony Appleyard (talk) 22:13, 25 July 2013 (UTC)
 * We know. Yes, Monogatari s a Japanese noun. Thanks for mentioning that info. Now, were you "support" or or "oppose" towards the proposal? --Makkachin (talk) 20:22, 27 July 2013 (UTC)
 * Oppose I don't think we should take into account anything the Japanese Wiki does, as they have different guidelines than the English Wiki. For instance, the Japanese Wiki calls Haruhi Suzumiya ja:涼宮ハルヒシリーズ (Haruhi Suzumiya series), and they also call Book Girl ja:“文学少女”シリーズ ("Bungaku Shōjo series), but this is the general custom of the Japanese Wikipedia, whereas the addition of "series" in the article title (outside of parenthetical like it is done now) would be against several naming conventions laid out at WP:NAME and WP:MOS-AM. Another example is Harry Potter. On the Japanese Wiki, it's called ja:ハリー・ポッターシリーズ (Harry Potter series), but it's simply "Harry Potter" here. But since there is already a Monogatari article, we have to disambiguate this article, and thus use (novel series). And the reason why "(novel series)" is used instead of "(series)" in this instance is because the series also encompasses other forms of media, predominantly the anime, so to make this article's scope to be just about the novels, "(novel series)" is used. In short, "series" should never be capitalized, as it's not really a part of the title; it's merely acting as a qualifier for anyone talking about the series.--  十  八  21:28, 27 July 2013 (UTC)
 * Alternate Proposal Anime articles on the English Wikipedia has always been a mess and way below the quality the more popular stuff on Wikipedia (the Detective Conan aka Case Closed page is barely functional), but the Monogatari articles really sets the bar even lower. The fundamental problem is that there's no consistency here. This page calls the series Monogatari, while the anime, episode and character pages call the series Bakemonogatari. Thus, the first order of business is to give a standard name for the series. Instead of the current proposed procedure, I say we move Bakemonogatari --> Monogatari (series), Monogatari (novel series) --> List of Monogatari novels, List of Bakemonogatari characters --> List of Monogatari characters, and List of Bakemonogatari episodes --> List of Monogatari episodes. The de facto franchise page is Bakemonogatari and keeping the page Bakemonogatari is like calling Indiana Jones (franchise) just Raiders of the Lost Ark because that's the first one. Before there's maybe an argument, but now that the current anime is flat out called Monogatari Series: Second Season (which means the second season of a series called Monogatari for those of you who still don't get it).... there's pretty much no argument for what series should be called. 24.109.252.101 (talk) 17:40, 28 July 2013 (UTC)
 * I don't think I'd be against such a series of page moves. Btw, this article used to be called List of Bakemonogatari light novels before it was moved to its current title, so there used to be a sense of consistency. I would just be against calling it Monogatari Series or Monogatari series per what I said above.--  十  八  21:37, 28 July 2013 (UTC)


 * Anyways, to directly adddress Makkachin. I think the question proposed is whether the series should be called Monogatari or the Monogatari Series. That, I think, is actually debatable and worthy of a discussion, but you gotta realize that you are jumping the gun and a lot of people still think the series is just flat out called Bakemonogatari. Thus, we need to first work on correcting that. Next, I disagree that this current page should be the center page for the entire franchise, when Bakemonogatari has been the de-facto page with the most information. This page is more like a list of the light novels published. 24.109.252.101 (talk) 18:00, 28 July 2013 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

Move discussion in progress
There is a move discussion in progress on Talk:Bakemonogatari which affects this page. Please participate on that page and not in this talk page section. Thank you. —RMCD bot 00:29, 3 August 2013 (UTC)