Talk:List of National Historic Landmarks in New York/Archive 2

Geocodes
It has been pointed out to me that this NY list lacks geocodes for sites, which show up nicely in, say, the List of National Historic Landmarks in Minnesota, scroll down to bottom and select geocode / map display option. That display is really neat. Most state table-lists-in-progress have geocodes for most sites built in, like that, because they are based on SEWilco's tables generated from a NRIS report. Unfortunately for us in terms of geocodes at least, we started before that was available. If anyone has the energy for hand-editing, geocodes for many/most of the NYS and NYC NHLs are available at WikiProject National Register of Historic Places/NHL coords. doncram 00:58, 8 November 2007 (UTC)


 * Thanks to Dmadeo for adding geocodes! I love how the interactive map now works, it is really neat! It was a lot of work Dmadeo put in to make this feature work.  Is it all complete? doncram (talk) 02:07, 11 January 2008 (UTC)
 * No, it's not, but the last 10% will require a lot more effort. Some of them are so large that you'd have to pick something like one of the main entrances (Adirondack Park), others are "Lakes" or Battlefields in areas without good maps.  Someone will have to go there and determine exactly where "there" is.  But we certainly got most of them.  FYI, I'm still working on the NYC map as well.  It's mostly done dm (talk) 03:09, 11 January 2008 (UTC)


 * Another way to go would be to create our own map of the NHL locations in the state, similar to the map of 72 or so state parks in List of Minnesota state parks, currently a candidate for Featured List (see discussion now at Featured list candidates). It has clickable dots locating each park.  Sometime I saw in Daniel Case's talk page that he has a NYS map with the outline of Adirondack Park marked.  That map plus dots for the 147 other NHLs outside NYC would be feasibly displayed in one map, I think.  Based on discussion in its FL review, the MN parks dots are located only very approximately, too.  It might be easy to use the Google map to guide hand placement of dots on the NYS map. Does anyone know how/where to get started in making such a map?  (I don't).  What are costs and benefits?  Currently i think it would be nice but is not essential.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Doncram (talk • contribs) 04:37, 29 January 2008 (UTC)

Nantucket (lightship)
It looks like it's permanently in Oyster Bay, rather than Manhattan. Regardless of what the NRHP/NHL thinks, should we move it to the right page? dm (talk) 17:16, 25 November 2007 (UTC)


 * I never understood your comment, as it's on its own page already.... But i get it now: you mean move its mention from the List of National Historic Landmarks in New York City to the New York state NHL list.  Yes, by all means, I agree it should be moved. doncram (talk) 22:12, 24 December 2007 (UTC)


 * Moved from NYC list to NYS list, both lists renumbered as needed. Thanks Dmadeo for making the trip to Oyster Bay, and proving by your nice photo that it is located there in 2008! doncram (talk) 13:37, 19 January 2008 (UTC)

Tallies by type of NHL for lead, summary description of the list
There are 257 NYS NHLs (109 of those in NYC) more than 10% (4%?) of all the U.S. NHLs (2432 in total per working tally of NHLs by state at WP:NRHP).

Tallies by types possibly useful for the lead summary.
 * Ships and shipwrecks: There are 12 in NYS total (5 in NYC alone) as listed in New York section of List of U.S. National Historic Landmark ships and shipwrecks
 * Buildings on college and university campuses: There are 9 in NYS total (4 in NYC alone), as documented in New York NHLs subtally at end of List of Registered Historic Places at colleges and universities in the United States of America
 * How many military sites?
 * How many Forts?
 * Indian forts: Fort Corchaug site. Fort Massapeag site.  Mohawk Upper Castle Historic District.
 * ruins/archeological besides the Indian ones: Fort Orange archeological site. Fort Frederic.  Land Tortoise (shipwreck).


 * Fortified houses: Fort Crailo.  Fort Klock.  Fort Johnson.
 * Big forts & battleships: Fort Crown Point.  Fort Montgomery.  Fort Niagara. Fort Stanwix.  Fort Ticonderoga.  USS The Sullivans. (	USS Edson (DD-946)   USS Intrepid. )
 * How many Battlefields (besides forts where battles happened)?
 * Bennington Battlefield. Newtown Battlefield. Oriskany Battlefield. Plattsburgh Bay.  Stony Point Battlefield.


 * How many headquarters and training institutions and arsenals and retirement facilities?
 * Washington HQ 1. Knox Headquarters.  West Point. Watervliet Arsenal. (69th Regiment Armory.  Quarters A, Brooklyn Navy Yard.  Sailors' Snug Harbor, not sure if it is military enough?  Seventh Regiment Armory.)


 * How many buildings that were tallest in the U.S. / in the world? at least 4/ at least 4 (all in NYC)
 * Metropolitan Life Insurance Company Tower, Woolworth Building, Chrysler Building,Empire State Building,


 * How many that are primarily homes of politicians, national leaders?
 * Outside NYC: Elkanah Watson House. Roscoe Conkling House.  Millard Fillmore House.  Gen. Wm Floyd House. John Jay Homestead. Seward House. Top Cottage. Lindenwald (Martin Van Buren house/mansion). Thomas Paine Cottage. Elihu Root House. Gerrit Smith Estate.


 * How many mansions?
 * Jay Gould Estate. E.H. Harriman Estate. John Hartford House? Lindenwald?  John D. Rockefeller Estate, Kykuit.  Rose Hill.  Elkanah Watson House?  Philip Schuyler Mansion?  Springside, matthew vassar estate but there is no mansion.  Sunnyside?  Villa Lewaro.


 * How many Dutch houses or manors? (many, more than any other state for sure)
 * How many underground railway stations or other abolitionist-related sites? at least 5 total (1 in NYC)
 * Lemuel Haynes House. Harriett Tubman House. Gerrit Smith Estate. John Brown Farm and Gravesite. (in NYC: Plymouth Church of the Pilgrims)
 * Compare to other states listed National Park Service "On the underground railway" tour site list


 * How many historic districts of the usual kind?
 * How many NHLs that are primarily archeological sites? 9 in NYS total (2 in NYC)
 * Outside NYC: Ganondagan State Historic Site, Fort Corchaug Archeological Site, Fort Massapeag Archeological Site, Fort Orange Archeological Site, Lamoka,Mohawk Upper Castle Historic District, Schuyler Flatts
 * In NYC: African Burial Ground, Wards Point Archeological Site


 * How many churches or chapels?
 * Outside NYC: Cobblestone Historic District (1 of 3 bldgs is a church), Dutch Reformed Church (Newburgh, New York), Dutch Reformed Church (Sleepy Hollow), First Presbyterian Church (Sag Harbor, New York), Harriet Tubman Home for the Aged for its A.M.E. Zion Church, Mohawk Upper Castle Historic District for its 1769 missionary church, St. Paul's Cathedral (Buffalo),St. Peter's Episcopal Church (Albany, New York), Willard Memorial Chapel-Welch Memorial Hall
 * Inside NYC: _____


 * How many situated on the Erie Canal? 4 (all outside NYC)
 * Watervliet Arsenal, Schoharie Crossing State Historic Site, Harmony Mills, Schuyler Flatts


 * How many hospitals and mental health facilities? (4 mental health asylums outside NYC, no doubt more than any other state NHL list
 * New York State Inebriate Asylum, Utica State Hospital, Hudson River State Hospital, Buffalo State Hospital. The Utica State hospital, built in 1843, was perhaps the first state-run mental institution in the U.S., predating Dorothea Dix and the Kirkbride Plan


 * How many entertainment facilities?
 * Canfield Casino and Congress Park, Historic Track, Kleinhans Music Hall, Playland Amusement Park, would u include Saratoga Spa State Park?, more?


 * How many utopian communities? at least 2
 * the unique Oneida Community Mansion House, Mount Lebanon Shaker Society which was primary Shaker site like the capitol of them all, perhaps also Roycroft Campus, and perhaps all the Adirondack camps...


 * How many Adirondack great camps and other retreats?
 * Sagamore Camp, Camp Eagle Island, Santanoni Preserve. 2 Chautauqua NHLs: Lewis Miller Cottage, Chautauqua Institution, and the Chautauqua district one.  Lake Mohonk Mountain House. Saratoga Spa State Park.  perhaps the Canfield Casino one too, there was spa included.


 * How many sites associated with women's rights / leading women? (many sites listed on NPS's Places Where Women Made History trail.  Only Massachusetts could have as many NHLs on this list, does Mass have more?)
 * Susan B. Anthony House, Elizabeth Cady Stanton House, Kate Mullany House. Harriett Tubman House.  Villa Lewaro.  Vassar College Observatory .  Steepletop. (NYC: Morris-Jumel Mansion.  Florence Mills House. Henry Street Settlement.  Alice Austen House.  New York Studio School. Margaret Sanger Clinic. Triangle Shirtwaist Factory Building, if that is an NHL.)


 * How many sites associated with naturalists? (many relatively)
 * Adirondack Park. 3 John Burroughs houses. Manitoga (Russel Wright House and Studio).


 * How many writers' and composers' homes?
 * 3 associated with John Burroughs. Owl's Nest of Edgar Eggleston(?). John Philip Sousa House. Steepletop of Edna St. Vincent Millay.  Sunnyside of Washington Irving.


 * How many artist studios or homes? (many)
 * Outside NYC: Frederic E. Church House,Thomas Cole House,Roycroft Campus, Manitoga (Russel Wright House and Studio),Thomas Moran House,William Sidney Mount House, Jackson Pollock House and Studio, more? (in NYC: New York Studio School)


 * How many engineering landmarks? (besides tallest buildings)
 * Old Blenheim Bridge. Old Croton Aqueduct.
 * (NYC: Brooklyn Bridge)


 * How many other sites associated with inventors/engineers/scientists?
 * General Electric research laboratories. James Hall Office. John William Draper House, George Eastman House. Irving Langmuir House. Hough House. Samuel F. B. Morse House.  Jethro Wood House


 * Other? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Doncram (talk • contribs) 07:56, 21 January 2008 (UTC)

Perspective on preservationist movement, what's NOT in nys nhl list, what is but shouldn't be on list
Notably missing from NHL list: Penn Station, whose demolition was a driver of preservationist movement. Also Edwin H. Armstrong House, demolished NHL. Most of one archeological site, which was subject of great preservationist battle.

Unlike some other states, NYS has few National Historic Parks or other sites protected by the Federal government. Seems like NYS preservation predated other preservation efforts, including at the national level. Note the NHL program started in 1960, the NRHP in 1966. When was Penn Station battle? When did NYS create its historic sites?

The Florence Mills House is example of site that should not be on the list, because historians goofed and went with the wrong address 2 blocks away. The site actually home of Florence Mills was demolished, was it before or after the wrong site was designated?

Is it appropriate to argue about how important, in retrospect, is a given historic person? I could suggest a few.

Edit table structure to reduce article size / Tabulate State Historic Sites?
The article size is pushing 100kb now, due to length of footnote text and to lead article added recently. I wonder if anyone has the energy to edit the table to cut the size it uses up in double pipes and otherwise. 100kb is the point that you start to see page size warnings when editing the article, i think.

User Belhalla, discussing in AfD for some Liberty Ships list articles, figured out how to reduce table size by using carriage returns rather than double pipes and associated spaces. One example is List of Liberty ships: A-F, which he got down from 129kb approx 92kb through those tricks and others. doncram (talk) 21:53, 27 January 2008 (UTC)


 * If you can reduce it without making it harder to keep updated, ok.  Otherwise, I'd pull out the State Historic Sites into a separate article. dm (talk) 22:51, 27 January 2008 (UTC)


 * Hmm, no one has ever had anything nice to say about the State Historic Sites cross-reference table, which i put in and still like. Oh well.  Anyhow, I went thru it all dropping 2 chars on most lines (replacing carriage return-double pipe-space by carriage return single-pipe no space, and also eliminating extraneous comma in some dates), bringing it from 93,810kb size down to 91,703kb, not a huge change but still helpful.  Seems like the wikitable format is pretty flexible, BTW, it was fine even when format was different in parts of the table.  I think the reduced form will be fine for further updating. doncram (talk) 02:29, 29 January 2008 (UTC)


 * It's not that I dont appreciate the work you did to put them in there, it's just that I think it's a separate article, even though it will have most of the same rows in the table. You could add it as a new column, but then you have to deal with any that aren't also landmarks... dm (talk) 03:05, 29 January 2008 (UTC)


 * Thanks for responding. Right, we wouldn't want to add a column having entries on only 23 of 148 rows.  It occurs to me List of Chicago Landmarks is mainly a 3 part table of the Chicago-designated landmarks, then another table of the NHLs that aren't also Chicago-designated.  Maybe we should make sure that the State Historic Site name is there as an alternative name, like i know it is for some, in the NHL name column, and then reduce the list of SHS's to be only the 14 that aren't already listed as NHLs?  Would we then have to make a comparable table of the 14, and look for photos and so on?  In the Chicago landmarks, the NHL table is comparable, not just a mere list like this.  Would either of these be better? doncram (talk) 04:55, 29 January 2008 (UTC)


 * I am thinking that the 15 state historic sites not designated NHLs ought to be tabulated in this list-article. Some of them, like Herkimer Home State Historic Site are really very clearly NHL-eligible / comparable to other NHLs.  Its article doesn't show it well yet, but the site is important in connection to the battle of Oriskany.  Locals met and camped at Herkimers house to start their expedition.  After the battle, wounded Herkimer was brought back here to die.  I dunno what to do about the fact that the list-article is pushing 100kb now.  Maybe a table of 15 will not use much more filesize than a list of 37, currently.  The 22 SHSs that are NHLs can be denoted by asterisks or some similar way in the main table, per suggestions in the peer review. doncram (talk) 20:27, 28 February 2008 (UTC)

Develop all the stub articles further?
All of the NHLs indexed by the article could arguably be rated Start quality or above, depending on your assessment of what Start should be, although a large number of them show Stub rating. I wonder, should all those rated Stub be improved substantially more before going further to seek FL status? FL criteria do not preclude having some red-links, even, among items listed, but I have thought that having somewhat well-developed articles on every NHL listed would be part of justifying the descriptions in the list. Not sure if all the articles are sufficient for supporting a FL list yet or not.

General criteria for Start rating, from assessment guides are: "The article has a meaningful amount of good content, but does not provide complete information. Has at least one element of gathered materials, including any one of the following: a particularly useful picture or graphic, multiple links that help explain or illustrate the topic...." All of the Stub-rated articles have informative NRHP infoboxes, have NHL webpage links, have NRHP text/photo PDF doc links if those are available at the National Park Service, and have benefited from photo addition attempts (show a recent photo, show a HABS photo, or it has been ascertained that no HABS photo is available). This would suffice to justify raising them all to Start. I have been hesitating to do so, as there are often holes in the articles (although Start assessment allows for there to be incompleteness). Anyhow, those rated at Stub all could be improved.

Those currently rated at Stub (within the 148 NHLs in NYS list) are:
 * 1) John Burroughs' Riverby Study
 * 2) Canfield Casino and Congress Park
 * 3) Christeen (sloop)
 * 4) Cobblestone Historic District. Really should add HABS pic for each of other 2 buildings.  2 sources recently added to article shed light on how Cobblestone architecture is a New York State specialty.  Thus significance of 3 in this district is not that they are "rare" examples, but rather they may be "best" examples out of 600 or so in NYS.  Separate article on cobblestone architecture would help.
 * 5) Thomas Cole House
 * 6) Roscoe Conkling House rated Start.  Could be organized better. :)
 * 7) Erie Canal National Historic Landmark. Clarify what part is NHL.
 * 8) First Presbyterian Church (Sag Harbor). Relate to Minard Lafever's other steepled church hurt in a hurricane, the Government Street(?) one in Alabama.
 * 9) Gen. William Floyd House. It is not the only surviving home of Declaration signer, there is other signer home that is NHL in NYC.
 * 10) Fort Corchaug Archeological Site. It is not the only surviving fort, it is not surviving itself.
 * 11) Fort Crailo. Wikilink patroonship in the list description.
 * 12) Fort Crown Point. How far from Fort St. Frederic ruins, what is its relationship.
 * 13) Old Fort Johnson. Home of Sir William Johnsohn, but who is that?  Explain.
 * 14) Fort Klock. Develop from NRHP text.  Add 1 or 2 of the HABS pics that might be set further back, to give more perspective than its one color pic provides.  Use/describe some of the external links.
 * 15) Fort Massapeag Archeological Site. Is this the one that is surviving?  Develop.
 * 16) Fort Montgomery (Hudson River).  Set up proper otheruses or whatever link to other Fort Montgomery in NYS.  Changed rating to Start
 * 17) Fort Orange. How could this possibly be the first permanent Dutch settlement?  If so, why?  Develop about the archeological site too.
 * 18) Fort St. Frederic. Did the Brits recycle stones from this one?  Where is it relative to Fort Crown Point.
 * 19) Fort Stanwix. Relate better to Oriskany Battlefield, how far away was that.
 * 20) General Electric Research Laboratory. Describe what happened there. Verify the photo that was added, in article and in List page, is of this building.  (Cg-realms, photographer, contacted...)
 * 21) Geneseo Historic District. Somehow finish out some discussion of the buildings covered.  Length needed to keep from being absorbed into Geneseo article.
 * 22) W. & L. E. Gurley Building. Recent development of article suggests can be included/added in 4 of the footnote categories now: university buildings, industrial facilities, invention sites, military support sites.  Article text only partially develops these themes so far.
 * 23) James Hall Office
 * 24) Harmony Mills
 * 25) John Hartford House
 * 26) Jean Hasbrouck House
 * 27) Lemuel Haynes House
 * 28) Historic Track
 * 29) Holland Land Office
 * 30) Franklin B. Hough House
 * 31) Hyde Hall. Add HABS link for its gatehouse, too, and add HABS pic plus new pic of its gatehouse.
 * 32) John Jay Homestead State Historic Site
 * 33) Kleinhans Music Hall. Long enough to be Start.  Article could explain why declared an NHL and/or otherwise use NHL & NRHP references tacked onto the article.
 * 34) Lamoka Site
 * 35) Land Tortoise (shipwreck)
 * 36) Irving Langmuir House
 * 37) Manitoga (Russel Wright Home)
 * 38) Lewis Miller Cottage
 * 39) Modesty (sloop)
 * 40) Mohawk Upper Castle Historic District
 * 41) Montgomery Place. Add HABS pic or two.  Daniel Case do u have a pic?
 * 42) Morrill Hall (Cornell University)
 * 43) William Sidney Mount House.
 * 44) Mount Lebanon Shaker Society
 * 45) Nantucket (lightship)
 * 46) New York State Capitol
 * 47) Newtown Battlefield State Park
 * 48) Old Blenheim Bridge
 * 49) Main Building (Vassar College)
 * 50) Old House (Cutchogue)
 * 51) Oneida Community Mansion House
 * 52) Oriskany Battlefield State Historic Site
 * 53) Owl's Nest
 * 54) Thomas Paine Cottage
 * 55) Palisades Interstate Park. Mention Stony Point Battlefield
 * 56) Petrified Sea Gardens
 * 57) Plattsburgh Bay
 * 58) Priscilla (sloop)
 * 59) Rose Hill (Fayette, New York)
 * 60) Roycroft. why is it stub for NRHP, start for other wikiproject?  may need NRHP-specific development
 * 61) Rudolph Oyster House
 * 62) Sagamore Camp
 * 63) St. Paul's Cathedral (Buffalo)
 * 64) St. Peter's Episcopal Church (Albany, New York)
 * 65) Santanoni Preserve
 * 66) Saratoga Spa State Park
 * 67) Schuyler Flatts
 * 68) William H. Seward House
 * 69) Gerrit Smith Estate
 * 70) John Philip Sousa House
 * 71) Elizabeth Cady Stanton House
 * 72) Steepletop
 * 73) Stony Point Battlefield.
 * 74) Villa Lewaro
 * 75) Washington's Headquarters State Historic Site.
 * 76) Watervliet Arsenal
 * 77) Elkanah Watson House
 * 78) Willard Memorial Chapel-Welch Memorial Hall
 * 79) Jethro Wood House
 * 80) Woodchuck Lodge

Peer Review Followups
Much done in the peer review responses. Further to do, from that, includes:

Discuss distribution of NHLs in NYS
Tabulation of counties having 1 or more NHLs is in the photos tabulation discussion, which may have been moved to archive. But how many counties have no NHLs? A couple are counties i have never heard of before, which i came across recently: Yates County, New York which does have a historical society, Orange County, New York down towards NYC. Can anyone list these. And/or draft text or a graphic or other presentation to talk about distribution of NHLs in NYC.... doncram (talk) 05:17, 16 February 2008 (UTC)
 * There are 62 counties in New York, per List of counties in New York, 57 outside of NYC. Rough counting, NHLs appear in approximately 44 outside NYC, plus the 5 NYC ones, makes about 49 counties, so about 13 counties having none.  There are 12 without any:

Note St. Lawrence County does not have any separate NHL but it does have some of Adirondack Park, a NHL.
 * 1) Allegany County
 * 2) Cattaraugus County,
 * 3) Chenango County,
 * 4) Cortland County,
 * 5) Jefferson County,
 * 6) Onondaga County,
 * 7) Steuben County,
 * 8) Sullivan County,
 * 9) Tioga County,
 * 10) Wayne County,
 * 11) Wyoming County,
 * 12) Yates County.


 * Westchester has 17
 * Erie has 10
 * Suffolk hs 9
 * Albany has 8
 * Dutchess has 8
 * Orange has 8 + part of Palisades 1
 * Columbia has 7
 * Oneida has 7
 * Essex has 6 plus 1 for Adirondack
 * Ulster has 6
 * Rensselaer has 5
 * Cayuga has 4
 * Nassau has 4
 * Montgomery has 3
 * Niagara has 3
 * Rockland has 3
 * Saratoga has 3
 * Schenectady has 3


 * Others have 1 or 2


 * Bronx has just 4
 * Kings has 8 + 1 part of Brooklyn bridge = 9
 * Queens 4
 * New York 85 + 1 part of Brooklyn bridge =86
 * Richmond 6

Specific question marks in footnotes to be resolved
Use your browser search to see these question marks in the article's footnotes. Please comment here and/or change in article:
 * Is Dr. Oliver Bronson House and Estate accurately termed a mansion?
 * From the photos and books, it's a nice looking house dm (talk) 06:51, 28 February 2008 (UTC)


 * Is Montgomery Place a mansion?
 * From the website, I think it could qualify dm (talk) 06:51, 28 February 2008 (UTC)


 * is Elkanah Watson House a mansion?
 * is Philip Schuyler Mansion a mansion?
 * is Sunnyside a mansion?
 * I've been to Sunnyside, it's a cottage dm (talk) 06:51, 28 February 2008 (UTC)


 * is James Weldon Johnson Residence to be classified as artist, or activist, or unique/not easily classifiable?
 * both an artist and activist dm (talk) 06:51, 28 February 2008 (UTC)


 * is Paul Robeson Home to be classified as artist, or activist, or unique/not easily classifiable?
 * both an artist and an activist dm (talk) 06:51, 28 February 2008 (UTC)


 * is New York Amsterdam News Building to be classified as commerce, or activism, or unique/not easily classifiable?
 * commerce I'd say, but its arguable dm (talk) 06:51, 28 February 2008 (UTC)

—Preceding unsigned comment added by Doncram (talk • contribs) 14:58, 16 February 2008 (UTC)

Notes from my copyedit
I just began to make the changes I'd written in red on the hard copy I printed out a while back. I'm glad to see that the excessive figures have been changed to spellouts where necessary. I changed some phrasings here and there and made the lede less self-referential. But there are still some macro issues I'd like to discuss before a wholesale change.


 * Can we maybe tableize the breakdown in categories? Actually this isn't as bad as it used to look, but it might be something to consider. Or adding another column to the main list with all these things.
 * Thanks for your comments! I don't think it would be feasible to add a column to the main table with these categories, I can't imagine how that would work at all.  About a separate table of the categories, I guess i appreciate that you seem to like / engage with the categories.  Again not sure how that could work in this NY NHL list, except perhaps as a table below the main table, not part of the intro to the article.  But a list of NHLs associated with women scientists or any other category, could easily be a separate list-article, and include NHLs from all states.  Like the National Park Service tour of the women leaders, which spans New York and Massachusetts. doncram (talk) 00:25, 24 February 2008 (UTC)


 * We should definitely listify the architects.
 * Since u r so clear about that, I just tried listing them with dot points. It is better for finding any one specific architect, if u want that, but takes longer to get to the main table.  I am okay with it.  Is this what you meant? doncram (talk) 00:25, 24 February 2008 (UTC)


 * I would argue with including the Adirondack Park as an area of artistic and cultural importance. It, Palisades Park and Niagara Reservation should be accounted for together as significant achievements in land conservation (A third protected area, Saratoga Springs, is also on the list but that's a state park primarily to protect its historical resources, not its biological ones).

The twenty difficult to classify
We should explain the (the following twenty).


 * If one is really unique, though, then there is no use in explaining it up front in the intro/overview. It would take as many words there, as it takes to describe it in its list entry.  Only if it can be grouped with others like it, should it be covered in the categories discussion in the overview section, other than being in the grouping "unique ones that can't otherwise be grouped".  But that said, some effort oughta be applied to classify some of these.

Armour-Stiner House: Very unique architecture
 * New category: architectural oddities (and include also Nott Memorial Hall).  Or other architecture? doncram (talk) 01:14, 24 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Those two mentioned as architectural oddities now. doncram (talk) 06:45, 27 February 2008 (UTC) Done

Holland Land Office: Important in state history for it was the centerpiece of the development of Western New York.
 * I did add new references to this article recently. But it seems too unique to me to classify with anything else. doncram (talk) 01:14, 24 February 2008 (UTC)

Old House: Sort of an engineering/architectural accomplishment: an extremely well-built colonial house.
 * It doesn't fit into the category of old Dutch houses, as this one is English. It is unique in the list, I can't see fitting it in anywhere.  It is described in its description, of course. doncram (talk) 06:45, 27 February 2008 (UTC)
 * What about calling them Dutch/British Colonial houses dm (talk) 06:57, 28 February 2008 (UTC)

Palisades Park: See above.

Petrified Sea Gardens: Women's history and science history (key paleontological discovery). Those two also apply to Vassar College Observatory.
 * After developing the Petrified Sea Gardens article somewhat, recently, i agree this can be put into the women leaders section, as I think the Vassar College Observatory already is. Done doncram (talk) 01:14, 24 February 2008 (UTC)

Cooper Union: Education, plus famous antislavery speech given by Lincoln.

Dakota Apartments: main reason is architecture, but I put the modern things in the list that the NPS doesn't cite: Rosemary's Baby and John Lennon's death.
 * For "Other Architecture" then? doncram (talk) 01:14, 24 February 2008 (UTC)

Governors' Island: Military.
 * Hmm. I guess a military support site?  Is there a fort there?  Glancing at its article, and the military category options, I don't immediately see how to handle this one. doncram (talk) 01:46, 24 February 2008 (UTC)
 * It's got two forts on it, military for most of its time dm (talk) 06:57, 28 February 2008 (UTC)

Grand Central Terminal: Architecture. Perhaps you could get a transporation theme going with the bridges and Holland Tunnel.
 * or "Other Architecture"?

Matthew Henson Residence: African-American history
 * Maybe a new African-American history section, yes, to cover more modern accomplishments, separate from Abolitionist grouping. Would include also Villa Lewaro and Florence Mills House. Done doncram (talk) 01:14, 24 February 2008 (UTC)

Merchants House: History.
 * History of what, all NHLs are about history. doncram (talk) 01:14, 24 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Historic House Museums might be a good way of slicing this, there are several that are NHL's. Slice of life at that time, etc dm (talk) 06:57, 28 February 2008 (UTC)

Metropolitan Museum of Art: Cultural/Educational importance as one of the world's premier art museums

NY Public Library: Educational
 * Cultural/Education as one of the worlds premier libraries dm (talk) 06:57, 28 February 2008 (UTC)

Plaza Hotel: Architecture; I also cited the cultural significance of the Eloise books on the NYC list.

United Charities Building: Social history

James Weldon Johnson Residence: African-American, artistic and social importance
 * this and next 2 for "African-American" new category then. Done

Paul Robeson Home: Same.
 * Done

NY Amsterdam News: African-American.
 * Done

Rockefeller Center: Architectural history (first large complex of urban buildings)
 * First large complex? Wouldn't that be beaten by the acropolis in Athens, and a zillion others?  Put in "Other architecture" then?

Sailors' Snug Harbor: This is tough. Commercial history seems the best, but I'd say social as well in terms of being a retirement home for sailors.

My thoughts. Daniel Case (talk) 19:47, 23 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Thanks for tackling these. doncram (talk) 01:14, 24 February 2008 (UTC)

Color classification
Hey folks, I'm trying to get the Washington list uplisted, but was curious if anything was decided over here about explaining the colors associated with the different types of sites. Murderbike (talk) 02:40, 28 February 2008 (UTC)

Question
What's with the second name in black italics in the site name box? is that alternate name or something? Murderbike (talk) 23:47, 28 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Nice that someone is watching. I was removing alternative common names that are not actually official  National or State program names for sites, from the left column, and put them in bold over in the description column.  Probably each of those descriptions need to be edited to accomodate them better, and perhaps lose the bolding. doncram (talk) 06:13, 29 February 2008 (UTC)