Talk:List of North Carolina Tar Heels men's basketball head coaches

Review
Here's a little mini-review for the List of North Carolina Tar Heels men's head basketball coaches article:
 * 2687 games
 * Why wikilink the 2008–09 North Carolina Tar Heels men's basketball team and not the 1910–11 North Carolina Tar Heels men's basketball team season? Either link them both or delink both.
 * an NIT?
 * Generally speaking, I think the lead is too long. Per WP:LEAD, the lead should be no longer than four paragraphs, and for an article of this size, I would even trim that down to three tops.
 * Check out revised lede


 * Again, comma between the 1s.
 * Spelling.
 * Would it be possible to make the "General" and maybe "Coach of the Year Awards" keys two columns? I think its pushing the table down too far. If not, not a big deal.
 * The Men's section break isn't needed
 * Don't forget to populate the image alt text
 * I honestly don't know if it is the "recommended" approach, but in the "Conference Loss" columns, change the ntsh parameter to 999. Currently, the dashes sort in between the 0s and 1s. This will force it to sort beyond the greater values. Technically, the dashes should sort below the 0, but I haven't figured out how to do that. And I would rather have all the dashes sort beyond the scope of the numbers, so this is the only way I've figured out how to do that.
 * Personally, I think you can get rid of the all the conference championships years and just indicate the number. In addition, add a column for National Championships; there I think you could include the years.
 * Either add in columns for postseason wins and losses or remove them from the key.
 * Remove the extra line breaks in the "General" refs section as it is causing them to be a bit more spaced out than they should be.
 * Be consistent with your date format in the refs. Some use D Month YYYY while others use YYYY-MM-DD.
 * Some of your refs are missing access dates. If there is a URL, an access date is needed.
 * I don't think a row is needed for years when there was no coach. This is a list of coaches, so if there was no coach, no need to list it. At the most, maybe a Note saying there was no coach.
 * I like it because I think it is interesting to see how they did without a head coach, but I am happy to defer to general consensus if people think that it is a problem.


 * Add "| agency=The Associated Press" to ref 10.
 * Which source did you want me to add this to?
 * Now, #13. The SI one.—NMajdan &bull;talk 21:26, 15 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Done.

Hope that helps.—NMajdan •talk 22:01, 14 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Some of your other citations looks odd but I'm not familiar enough with the Harvard format to judge.
 * Very helpful. I will work on making these revisions. Remember (talk) 14:17, 15 December 2009 (UTC)

Key question
Can I make a suggestion? Why not remove the insanely complex key of symbols for championships and simply have a number of small columns for a count of each thing (regular season conference champs, ACC tourny champs, NIT champs, NCAA champs, etc, etc). The headers can be abbreviated and described in the key to keep the table a manageable width, but in the current form the table (particularly for Dean Smith) is just unreadable IMO. Staxringold talkcontribs 22:31, 14 December 2009 (UTC)
 * See the revised table. Let me know what you think. Remember (talk) 16:49, 15 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Definitely better. Personally I would still further split the 3 types of National Championship, but now the number of symbols and entries you're dealing with is more manageable and readable. Staxringold talkcontribs 17:38, 15 December 2009 (UTC)
 * I think I will keep it the current way unless others disagree. Adding two more columns would, I think, be too many. Remember (talk) 19:34, 15 December 2009 (UTC)

Comments from Peer review
Finetooth comments: I have a few suggestions, mainly about prose, style and layout.

Image license
 * The dabfinder tool at the top of this review page finds two links that go to disambiguation pages rather than their intended targets.
 * The Cartmell image licensing page at the Commons does not have enough information to allow fact-checkers to be sure that the image is properly licensed. The link to the University of Pennsylvania archives leads to an "entry denied" message. This problem is probably fixable.
 * Added better link to image.

Lead *"to have won a Olympic Gold Medal for coaching basketball" - "an" rather than "a"?
 * "The North Carolina Tar Heels men's basketball program is a college basketball team... " - A "program" is not exactly a "team". I'd look for a way to re-state this. Doesn't the program include the coaching staff, the basketball arena, the trainers, and a lot of other things in addition to the team?
 * The opening paragraph repeats "North Carolina" too many times. It shouldn't be hard to vary this a bit.
 * Atlantic Coast Conference should not be linked twice in the opening paragraph. How about using unlinked "ACC" on the second reference?
 * "During those seasons, three coaches have lead the team to... " - "have led" rather than "have lead"
 * "Smith is the only coach to lead North Carolina to an NIT championship... " - NIT should be spelled out and abbreviated on first use.
 * "Smith has had the longest tenure at North Carolina" - "had" rather than "has had"?

Key
 * The layout here is very strange. Why all the white space? Also, the "Other awards" box extends beyond the edge of the page on my computer screen. Could this whole section be re-organized somehow?


 * See revised key

References
 * The abbreviation for a single page is p., but for multiple pages it's pp.
 * Some of the citations lack the date of most recent access.
 * Most of those are specific referneces that refer back to the general references and the general references now all have access dates.


 * Some names, like "Southern Conference" in citation 1, are in italics when they shouldn't be. Journals and newspaper names should appear in italics but not universities, conferences, or other publishers.
 * Don't know how to change this in the template.


 * The publisher of the Wall Street Journal entry in citation 8 appears to be Dow Jones & Company.
 * The publisher of citation 16 appears to be CBS Interactive. The author is Bill Free. I'm not sure what "Umterps.cstv.com" refers to.
 * The wikilink in citation 3 appears to be circular. Ditto for citation 4. Ditto for citation 12. There may be others like this that are self-referential.
 * Not sure what you mean by circular. They point back to the general references already mentioned above.  I thought that this was the preferred style but i could be wrong.


 * In general, I'd suggest checking everything in the references section for formatting errors and to make sure all the refs are complete. My rule of thumb for Internet sources is to include author, title, publisher, date of publication, url, and date of last access, if all of these are known.

I hope these suggestions prove helpful. Finetooth (talk) 21:43, 30 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Thanks so much for the comments. I will get too as soon as I get a chance. Remember (talk) 22:02, 30 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Let me know what you think of some of my revisions. Remember (talk) 01:38, 31 December 2009 (UTC)
 * The text is looking better. I changed a hyphen to an en dash and a few more things of that sort on a read-through this morning, but a few similar things remain to be done to some of the other citations (as noted above). However, the layout is still less than ideal. There is no single right way to lay out a page, but it's often helpful to try out several possibilities before settling on any particular one. For example, you might try re-organizing your two explanatory tables along the lines of the explanatory table at the top of the "Statistics" section of the List of Minnesota Vikings starting quarterbacks. If you merged your two explanatory tables and made the columns just the right width, you'd probably be able to place the two images (Cartmell and Smith) to the right of the new table. This (if it actually works) would solve the white-space problem and make the page more visually appealing. I don't know for sure that it will work, but it, or something similar, is something you might try. Finetooth (talk) 18:51, 31 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Check out the revised table. Does that work? Remember (talk) 21:56, 4 January 2010 (UTC)
 * If there are no further comments, could you close out the peer review. But please provide more comments if you have any. Remember (talk) 13:39, 5 January 2010 (UTC)

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