Talk:List of Norwegian Americans

Thanks for establishing this article! :-)
A deep-felt thanks to Bert for creating this article! Great stuff for us Norwegians with American relatives -- which amounts to most of us, I guess. :-) Myself, I've got relatives in Florida, Maryland, Ohio, Wisconsin, and California. --Wernher 02:38, 18 Nov 2004 (UTC)
 * Thanks to you Wernher for vastly improving this list! It really looks a lot better now . Now if only I had the time and energy of three men, I'd get rid of all the red of this page by writing some more of the biographies and perhaps adding more names to the list (I know there are plenty of Norwegian-Americans out there that we missed). As for me, I don't personally know any of my relatives in Norway, but I probably have more than a few distant Norwegian cousins that I've never met (Sveen is a fairly common name in Norway I'm told)! Well thanks again . BSveen 03:14, Nov 18, 2004 (UTC)

Article title
I wonder whether we should rename the article from "List of famous Norwegian-Americans" to either "List of Norwegian-Americans" or "List of notable Norwegian-Americans". The first alternative is perhaps more in line with other lists of US immigrants (and descendants), such as List of Italian Americans. After all, not all the Norwegian-Americans listed are particularly famous... but notable they are! :-) What do you think? --Wernher 05:44, 20 Nov 2004 (UTC)
 * Yes this seems like a great idea to me! Better to rename it so as to keep it line with similiar lists. You know, when I first made this list I really had no idea at all what I was doing on Wikipedia (as you no doubt saw from the amount of "wikifying" you had to do on this page!); I probably should have named it "List of Norwegian-Americans" to begin with. Anyway let's go for it, rename it BSveen 05:55, Nov 20, 2004 (UTC)

Proposal for list inclusion
I have made the following proposal regarding the criteria for inclusion for these lists. If this is something that you have comments or ideas about, please provide feedback. Thanks. Wikibofh 9 July 2005 19:16 (UTC)

Ethnicity lists discussion
Please see discussion at Wikipedia:Village pump (policy) for current discussion of a potential policy to apply to all ethnicity lists on Wikipedia, including this one. JackO&#39;Lantern 20:31, 11 April 2006 (UTC)

Article improperly redirected&mdash;history lost
Please redirect properly. This will restore editng history. Thanks - Williamborg 00:53, 5 June 2006 (UTC)

I have added:

 * Pricilla Presley - Pricilla Presley has Norwegian ancestory and still has distant relatives in Norway today.
 * Surrey Marshe - Playboy Playmate born in Norway, but mislabelled by Playboy as being from Denmark.
 * Sharon Johansen - American playmate, model and actres. She is of Norwegian ancestary.
 * Brooke Berry - American Playmate of Norwegian and Swedish ancesters.
 * Vicky Vette - American adult movie actress born in Stavanger, Norway.
 * Kira Kener - American adult movie actress
 * Renee Olstead - Renee Olstead should also be on the list. She is an American singer.
 * Melanie Griffith —Preceding unsigned comment added by Mortyman (talk • contribs) 10:44, 14 March 2008 (UTC) Mortyman (talk) 10:53, 14 March 2008 (UTC)

Mortyman (talk) 17:09, 14 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Paris Hilton & Nicky Hilton
 * Conrad Hilton - founder of the Hilton Hotel chain
 * Conrad Hilton, Jr.
 * Barron Hilton
 * Richard Hilton
 * Leeann Tweeden - model
 * Josh Groban - singer

Wiki Filibustering
This method will no longer work. The list has been here for a YEAR since it was recovered from deletion review. Nobody bothered to do anything about it, and when someone does (me) I get reverted and asked to move back to status quo (with the infinitely persistent fact tags, that will never get sourced). Until the names have been re-added to the page with sources that specifically identify each as a "Estonian American," I will remove them from the mainspace, and move them here (if necessary). My attempts to circumvent this by simply moving the most notable to the article main page, has been met without discussion by reverts and vandalism warnings. Bulldog123 (talk) 06:12, 11 September 2008 (UTC)

Massive blanking, September 11, 2008
See. A great many names were removed, many sourced with external links and many others with information about the individuals' Norwegian heritage in their own wikilinked WP articles. Badagnani (talk) 07:12, 11 September 2008 (UTC)
 * I've come here from AN/I. If I see people adding unsourced or poorly sourced material about living people to this article, I'll warn them once, then block them. I hope that's clear. Jayjg (talk) 03:30, 14 September 2008 (UTC)

Massive blanking, September 14, 2008
See. Most of these were sourced or their WP articles state their heritage in the "Biography" section. It's much better to actually do the legwork (yes, it's tedious and takes time) on this than to simply "blank and run." That's not how our encyclopedia is built and maintained. Badagnani (talk) 04:46, 14 September 2008 (UTC)


 * Agree, there would be no good reason to duplicate sources on the X-American lists once the main articles about the people have been clearly spelled out. As I'm getting it, Americans of Norwegian descent shouldn't be really called Norwegian Americans or be part of List of Norwegian Americans? Is that the point of this?--Termer (talk) 05:18, 14 September 2008 (UTC)

It appears that one or two editors are taking a hard-line opinion that even if someone's parents (or both) were Norwegian, if a source doesn't use the actual term "Norwegian American," they cannot be called as such at Wikipedia. I don't believe that hard-line opinion has consensus, by the definition of Norwegian American. The reason for the lists is that they can be properly sourced (unlike categories), and because when they grow too long, they are split out of the main articles, such as Norwegian American. Badagnani (talk) 05:23, 14 September 2008 (UTC)


 * I'm taking a hard-line on this (and similar) articles with respect to poorly sourced or unsourced material about living people. If you or Termer insert material that isn't properly sourced into this article, I'll block you. And you're right, "It's much better to actually do the legwork", so get to it. And inserting poorly sourced or unsourced material about living people is "not how our encyclopedia is built and maintained." Jayjg (talk) 05:33, 14 September 2008 (UTC)

Wikipedia is a collaborative project. Your hyperaggressive tone, in this case is unnecessary; we should all work together to make this the best article possible. Let's do that rather than blanking large areas of sourced text, then mandating that others clean up. It will show good faith if all commenting editors (particularly those insisting on blanking text without prior discussion) actually follow through on such legwork. I'm really looking forward to it. Wikipedia should be a positive experience for everyone. Let's work hard to improve this article. Badagnani (talk) 05:38, 14 September 2008 (UTC)


 * Please Jayjg define "poorly sourced". as far as I'm concerned anything can be interpreted as "poorly sourced" by you and that can result blocking by you as you please. Just one example Lance Henriksen removed from the list but still is part of Category:Norwegian-Americans with all the sources in the main article as here on the list that were available. Sorry but none of this had made any sense to me and unless it's made clear how exactly "poorly sourced" is defined, I'm afraid any of my good faith edits can end up me getting blocked by you.--Termer (talk) 21:19, 14 September 2008 (UTC)

Removal, September 15, 2008
Renee Zellweger removed. Removing editor apparently believes that the Sami are not citzens of Norway. Badagnani (talk) 04:49, 15 September 2008 (UTC)

The first thing that should be found out, are the people that are Norwegian descent part of the list? The way I see it, the lists are about heritage, the roots, not about anybodies ethnicity or nationality. Perhaps all the X-American lists should clarify that right up there to avoid different interpretations.

Now, the first thing, the "dead people" who were born In Norway, emigrated to the US that have been removed from the article:


 * Jacob Tanner (15 October 1865 – 25 January 1964)[1] was a Norwegian American religious educator..emigrated to the United States.


 * Sven Oftedal (March 22, 1844 - March 30, 1911) was born in Norway


 * Elling Eielsen -founder of the Norwegian Lutheran Church in the United States.


 * Knute Rockne Place of birth Voss, Norway


 * Thorstein Veblen (born Tosten Bunde Veblen July 30, 1857 – August 3, 1929) was a Norwegian-American sociologist and economist


 * Ole Evinrude, born Ole Evenrudstuen in Norway was a Norwegian-American inventor

These are just few. I still am going thuogh the damage and in case anybody can see a logic or pattern in the removals done by bulldog, please let me know.--Termer (talk) 05:47, 15 September 2008 (UTC)


 * Comment - I support adding short annotations to each of the individuals for maximum clarity, as proposed above. Badagnani (talk) 05:52, 15 September 2008 (UTC)


 * Those names should be added back as it says they were born in Norway quite clearly. I added them back. Bull dog 23:06, 15 September 2008 (UTC)

Many sources and references removed, September 15, 2008
See. Badagnani (talk) 21:00, 15 September 2008 (UTC)

Massive blanking of sourced text
See. Badagnani (talk) 23:03, 15 September 2008 (UTC)

According to Norwegian American, "Norwegian Americans (Norwegian: norskamerikanere) are Americans of Norwegian descent." See the above diff to see numerous annotations and references for individuals of verifiably Norwegian descent, removed -- many with brand new sources from Google Books (published sources certifying such Norwegian descent) -- along with an edit summary that states, "These are just the same old sources." The blanking editor, after now dealing with nearly 100 such edits, seems simply not to be a careful editor. May we ask for more care in his/her edits in the future? Badagnani (talk) 23:11, 15 September 2008 (UTC)


 * You're adding different sources, I admit, that say the same thing. The definition of "Norwegian American" is not for us to determine. Bull dog 05:53, 19 September 2008 (UTC)

The definition is, to the contrary, quite clear--as given in the article Norwegian American. Have you read it? Badagnani (talk) 05:56, 19 September 2008 (UTC)


 * The definition of "Norwegian American" is not for us to determine. Bull dog 18:49, 19 September 2008 (UTC)

Rename
Since the name of the list "Norwegian Americans" gets interpreted as a list containing people with dual Norwegian-American citizenship and/or Norwegian born Americans even though the related article clearly says that Norwegian Americans are Americans of Norwegian descent. I'd suggest renaming the list to 'List of Americans of Norwegian descent that should make it very clear to everybody what is this list all about.--Termer (talk) 23:53, 15 September 2008 (UTC)


 * It should be fine; however, the ulterior motive may be (in fact, not "may be"; it's already been stated that it is) to delete all such articles, and if they're not allied in title to the parent article, Norwegian American, this may likely be attempted. I don't have a problem with renaming, other than this, as well as the fact that, by definition, a "Norwegian American" (and thus any candidate for this list) is a person who is of Norwegian descent. The removals of many names, sources, and annotations over the past day (see just above for diff), are completely impermissible according to this definition. Badagnani (talk) 16:39, 16 September 2008 (UTC)


 * If anybody wishes to rename it, I'm fine with it, but as Badagnani says, this does risk facing another AfD (not by me). Bull dog 05:52, 19 September 2008 (UTC)

edit repair
This article needs repair since the recent round of pointy deletions. Much good information was deleted and needs to be restored. Hmains (talk) 04:46, 18 September 2008 (UTC)


 * Yes, this edit removed a particularly large amount of sourced text, including some new Google Books sources from published biographies of the individuals in question. Badagnani (talk) 05:06, 18 September 2008 (UTC)


 * You can add as many Google Books sources as you wish, but if they don't call the person a "Norwegian American" or a "Norwegian" or a "citizen of Norway" I have no choice but to remove them. Your google book source for Mitchum says his mother was a "Norwegian immigrant" - Perfect for his mother. Is she notable? Bull dog 05:49, 19 September 2008 (UTC)


 * And they will be restored. The definition of a "Norwegian American" is quite clear, as given in the lead of Norwegian American. Have you read it? Badagnani (talk) 05:57, 19 September 2008 (UTC)
 * And will be reverted again (and this can go on as long as you want), because, despite your lectures about WP:POV and sourcing, you don't see that there are many subjective, verifiable sources for who a Norwegian American is. The definition used on our article is just one, interestingly editor-added, definition. For example, to Norwegians a "Norsk-American" is only someone who has been born in Norway and immigrated to America. Now, that's an equally legitimate definition as the first, and so, if I were to initate a WP:POV as you do, I could remove everybody who was not born in Norway but has a source that calls him/her "Norwegian American." I won't do that because that would be a bit of WP:OR on my part. Instead, we solve this problem by finding explicit reliable statements referring to people as "Norwegian American," citizenship rights in Norway and America (through birth), or self-proclamations of being "Norwegian-American." All are legitimate, and all are justified through verifiability not through our own personal discretions. If you find a source for Mitchum like that, it's perfect. However, sourcing him as a Norwegian American because his mother was one is WP:SYNTHESIS on your part, and I can revert it as a source that does not source what it purports to. There is no further explanation. Instead of wasting your time endlesslsy arguing a moot point, you could go and do what you have been telling me is productive editing. Bull dog 18:48, 19 September 2008 (UTC)


 * The definition of a "Norwegian American" is quite clear, as given in the lead of Norwegian American. Have you read it? Apparently not, bedcause you say, "I won't do that." Your extreme point of view, that an individual of verifiably Norwegian ancestry is not a Norwegian American (despite the definition of the term) cannot be allowed to be propagated at our encyclopedia, let alone to dictate which content will be blanked from our articles, because we adhere rigidly to an WP:NPOV policy here. Badagnani (talk) 20:08, 19 September 2008 (UTC)

Added back on
I have added the following back onto the list. For some reason most of them were removed from the list. If anyone has a problem with me adding them back on, please state why. If you need a verification, I am confident you can find it if you follow the url to their page here on Wiki and or the url on the respective Wiki page. If not I am sure I can find another one for you. Please let me know and do not delete again.


 * Pricilla Presley - Pricilla Presley has Norwegian ancestory and still has distant relatives in Norway today.
 * Surrey Marshe - Playboy Playmate born in Norway, but mislabelled by Playboy as being from Denmark.
 * Sharon Johansen - American playmate, model and actres. She is of Norwegian ancestary.
 * Brooke Berry - American Playmate of Norwegian and Swedish ancesters.
 * Vicky Vette - American adult movie actress born in Stavanger, Norway.
 * Kira Kener - American adult movie actress
 * Renee Olstead - Renee Olstead should also be on the list. She is an American singer.
 * Melanie Griffith
 * Paris Hilton & Nicky Hilton
 * Conrad Hilton - founder of the Hilton Hotel chain
 * Conrad Hilton, Jr.
 * Barron Hilton
 * Richard Hilton
 * Leeann Tweeden - model
 * Josh Groban - singer
 * Natassia Malthe
 * Lynn Anderson

Mortyman (talk) 16:59, 9 August 2009 (UTC)

Newly added
Mortyman (talk) 15:22, 13 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Grim Natwick - Famous Disney animator and lead animator on Snow White and also creator of the caracter Betty Boop

no pov discussion here
There is no active POV discussion on the talk page. The POV tag is apprpriate to point to such a discussison. There is none. Placement of the tag on this page is further disruptive editing. Hmains (talk) 06:17, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

article improvement
This article needs to have the occupations of each person added and then be sectionized by occupation. It would then provide additional useful information and be organized like many other 'List of fooian Americans' articles here. Hmains (talk) 19:36, 26 June 2011 (UTC)

New division of people on the list.
Hello, I have divided the list into sections. Each section of the list would include all the Norwegian American with a particular profession and within each section, in addition, people would be sorted alphabetically; as in other lists of Americans by ethnicity. This facilitates finding people on the list. --Isinbill (talk) 18:45, 6 August 2011 (UTC)

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