Talk:List of Notre Dame Fighting Irish starting quarterbacks

Rename
This should be moved to Notre Dame starting quarterbacks in accordance to the WP:MOS. -- Zim Zala Bim talk  05:30, 24 November 2007 (UTC)

Starters
Good catch by Hanksummers in realizing that the names for 1925-1940 were incorrect. (It appears that those were all starting halfbacks, not quarterbacks.)

However, I think we're still faced with a problem in that the list is supposed to represent every quarterback to have ever started a game, not necessarily every quarterback listed on the depth chart. Therefore, prior to 1940 we need to find another source to confirm what QBs actually started, and which ones simply rode the bench all season.

Trowbridge (talk) 17:46, 13 December 2007 (UTC)

Following up...

The 1930s are proving to be even more complicated than I'd realized earlier. Coach Layden generally used backfield formations where the halfbacks threw more passes than the QB's, so looking at the historical passing statistics isn't particularly helpful. In fact, if a starting quarterback were to miss a game due to injury, etc., it's more likely that a halfback would step into the vacated role than whomever was listed as the "backup QB".

Given the confusion and the lack of any solid data, I decided to remove all of the names of the second and third string quarterbacks in the 1930s pending any confirmation that they did, in fact, start a game at the position. But I expect that any such data will probably show that an HB or two started at QB from time to time.

Trowbridge (talk) 16:58, 19 December 2007 (UTC)

Knight of Malta?
What's with the one QB from 1899 being footnoted as a "Knight of Malta?" How is that relevant? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.36.121.215 (talk) 21:29, 4 January 2008 (UTC)

Since I'm the person who footnoted that, I'll answer. Being a "Knight of Malta" is an interesting and noteworthy accomplishment for a graduate of a Catholic university/football player, just as winning the Heismann Trophy is. Therefore, it deserves a special citation. It shows that the person was more than just a dumb jock. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Hanksummers (talk • contribs) 21:37, 4 January 2008 (UTC)


 * I don't at all doubt that it's a noteworthy accomplishment, and definitely warrants a place on the page dedicated to the player; it just seems a bit out of place on this list, having nothing to do (as far as I can tell from perusing the page on the Knights of Malta) with football or Notre Dame (except by virtue of both being Catholic institutions). It'd be kind of like footnoting David Robinson's name on the list of NBA MVPs with "Lieutenant, U.S. Army." 68.36.121.215 (talk) 21:19, 8 January 2008 (UTC)


 * I would tend to agree that it seems a bit out of place on a page that deals exclusively with starting quarterbacks. Certainly any lifetime achievements that are directly football-related should be noted (e.g., I would have no problem adding footnotes for winners of the Sammy Baugh Trophy or the Johnny Unitas Golden Arm Award, etc.), but things that aren't directly related to playing football should probably be relegated to the individuals' pages, lest we open up the floodgates for every non-sports-related accomplishment any player might have had. -- Trowbridge (talk) 20:46, 16 January 2008 (UTC)

Request for deletion
On 1-21-2008, G4raider marked this page for deletion, with the justification that it should be relegated to a template on the "main page" (presumably referring to the Notre Dame Fighting Irish football page.

However, a template would be entirely unsatisfactory for several reasons. First of all, a template may be fine for a simple list where entries are not chronological, or if the names proceed in simple succession and do not repeat. That is not the case here. Names are repeated in various years (sometimes non-consecutively) and must be identified by the year to be meaningful.

Second, the list provides other data besides the simple list, such as identifiers for Heisman Trophy winners and Hall of Fame members. Such information cannot by conveyed in a template.

I may give serious consideration to converting the entire list to a table and adding additional information in a tabular format, so that the difference from a simple list will be that much clearer. -- Trowbridge (talk) 00:41, 22 January 2008 (UTC)

That's fine with me but in other situations i've seen pages like this deleted. G4raider —Preceding unsigned comment added by G4raider (talk • contribs) 02:29, 28 January 2008 (UTC)

Proposal for revised format
Okay, to follow up on my previous comment, I'd like to propose a fairly radical revision to the format of the page. I suggest using a table, and presenting the data in the manner of the following example:

Hopefully a presentation in this format will lay to rest the ridiculous notion that this is "just a list" which should be deleted or converted to a template. Comments are welcome! If no one has any negative feedback in the next week or so, I'll probably go ahead and get started. Note that some of this data may be very difficult to find as we get back into the early part of the prior century, so anyone who has detailed records, please come forward! -- Trowbridge (talk) 03:07, 22 January 2008 (UTC)

Trowbridge's suggestion is excellent. The idea that this page is "just a list" and therefore should be deleted is ludicrous.Hanksummers (talk) 15:26, 22 January 2008 (UTC)hanksummers

The deed is done! The new table is up, and it includes data for each individual's first game as a starter, their total number of starts, and their overall record as a starter. However, my sources for this data begin to get somewhat vague prior to 1955. For example, I know that Tom Carey started at QB five times during his tenure from 1952-54, and that he won all five games. But I have no solid information regarding precisely which games those were. Thus the absence of any such data in the table prior to 1955. (Of course, I know the won-lost records for QBs that played a full season, but I didn't want to leave any conspicuous gaps between various years.) Hopefully someone will step up with some better source information (official ND archives, anyone?) and fill in the missing data. -- Trowbridge (talk) 22:01, 25 January 2008 (UTC)

Win-Loss Records
Several QB's are missing from the 'Win-Loss Record' list. Namely, Theisman, Hanratty, O'Brien. I don't have the records for them handy, but obviously they need to be added. --Daysleeper47 (talk) 17:00, 1 November 2010 (UTC)