Talk:List of Omnitrix aliens/Archive 4

Divided We Stand : New Alien
Did any of you catch the ad for the next episode featuring the new alien to Ben's Omnitrix? I already added him to the list even though we don't have a name or picture yet. I only added what I remembered from the commercial. Sonicmaster1223 21:36, 17 July 2007 (UTC)
 * We are aware of the new Alien, however, it would be wise to wait for the episode to air before adding it. So we have proper information, rather than what continually gets added. -Sukecchi 02:07, 18 July 2007 (UTC)

LUCKY!I'm yet to see it...-S.L.J.C.O.A.A.A.T.R.

The TV guide says the next alien's name is Ditto, and it's power is obviously to duplicate itself. --74.223.123.103 21:06, 19 July 2007 (UTC)

Ditto sense
Alright, this has already appeared multiple times, so I have to set this straight. Ditto obviously cannot sense when another one is nearby. When three of the Dittos noticed that the other one was missing, they all took off in different directions, proving they had no clue where to go. In addition, Max is the one who told them to head for the oil tanker, and without him pointing it out they would have sailed on by. The fact that the Dittos flew over to each other when in close enough proximity is a force, and not a sense. In this degree it is similar to magnetism. One magnet can not sense where the other magnet is, but it is forcibly drawn to it.MegaWhatt 23:42, 19 July 2007 (UTC)


 * I think my perspective might be important. I've seen several Ben 10 episodes, but I have not seen "Divided We Stand" and the description of Ditto is slightly confusing for me. It says, "Should one Ditto be destroyed, every other Ditto is destroyed along with it." How can we know that? In order to demonstrate the truth of that statement, Ben would have to be destroyed in that episode. I can almost imagine that happening, but I seriously doubt it. -- Lilwik 06:34, 20 July 2007 (UTC)

Dr. Animo's mutated stinkflies had the same power from Ditto's DNA. When one was destroyed, the rest soon were destroyed as well. --Piemanmoo 06:38, 20 July 2007 (UTC)


 * But remember that at one point, they say that they can tell he is nearby. And that was before they started flying towards each other.Wild ste 11:36, 20 July 2007 (UTC)

Actually, I don't remember it. All I do know is they all took off in different directions at first and would have passed by the oil tanker if not for Max. So it may be possible that they only can sense each other when close by.MegaWhatt 17:49, 20 July 2007 (UTC)


 * Me neither. I just watched the episode, and I can't remember them ever "sensing" each other's presence. If both of you are correct (I know Megawhatt is), then it would be an inconsistency. If it is inconsistent, it cannot be in the article until a consistency is reached. Savvy? Javo 718 15:58, 24 July 2007 (UTC)

I think I know what you are talking about. It's been a while since I've seen the episode, but I think I remember the Dittos on the boat sensing the other one after getting close. However, if I remember correctly, this was just before the Omnitrix began to time out. This means that the ability to sense one another may have simply been a side effect of their being forcibly drawn together, like magnets. Of course, this is just a theory. The world&#39;s hungriest paperweight 16:10, 30 August 2007 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:Ditto.jpg
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BetacommandBot 04:31, 20 July 2007 (UTC)


 * I've added a new, clearer picture along with Fair Use rationale. --Piemanmoo 06:20, 20 July 2007 (UTC)

Separation into Old and New Aliens
Now that we have Ditto's article, should we start thinking about separating this article into two separate ones, one for the original 10 aliens and the other for all the ones after it (from season 2 onwards)? It would help our space problem.Wild ste 11:35, 20 July 2007 (UTC)


 * Are you suggesting we split one article into three (Omnitrix, Original Aliens, and New Aliens) or one article into two (Omnitrix, New Aliens)? The latter is highly inconvenient, so I'll talk about the former. I think that once the show ends, we should split the articles. As it is now, this article is the central hub of all Omnitrix-related rumors. It would be stupid to have to go to one article to debate about the Omnitrix, one article to debate about the Originals, and so on. So, as for now, we should keep the articles as one for the sake of discussion practicability. After the show concludes, there will be no more gossip (hopefully) and the articles can be split. Am I making sense? Javo 718 15:54, 24 July 2007 (UTC)


 * Yer, sure that makes sense. I was just thinking that the orginal Omnitrix facts (i.e. creation, what it is etc) would go in the orginal Ben 10 artical and then there would be two articals for the orginal 10 and the other for the new ones. The reason, as I said, was simply since we've been having space problems for ages and there has been loads of debates of whether the name of the alliens homeworlds is important or not.Wild ste 20:47, 24 July 2007 (UTC)


 * I worry about notability. The Omnitrix is a great subject for an article, but none of Ben's forms by itself seems to be worthy of an article, so I wonder how appropriate it would be to have an article about just a subset of Ben's forms. -- Lilwik 05:27, 25 July 2007 (UTC)

Voice change?
Does anyone else think it's pertinent to make a passing mention to how the different alien forms sound? I dunno, it's been kinda bugging me. 71.87.113.191 14:42, 21 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Not really...it's not all that important. Of course different characters are going to have different voices. -Sukecchi 15:52, 21 July 2007 (UTC)

Age reversal?
The episode "Don't Drink the Water" has Ben and Max getting younger, and Ben's aliens de-age along with him. Shouldn't this be noted under design, as with Ben 10,000?

How do we know that when theep. is yet to air?It's most likely true,but baby Ben might be too much of an idiot to be able to even blow a bubble.LOL.-SLJCOAAATR

That was an interesting episode. What my question is is if we should make any note at all on the changed powers of the two aliens that demonstrated them. The two were, I believe, Stinkfly's younger self having the ability to expel toxic herbicidal gas and Heatblast's younger self going 'supernova' when angry. The unclear thing about this is whether or not those are abilities the older forms have as well. Stinkfly it seems not. I've never seen him demonstrate anything like that before, but that could just be me forgetting such an instance. Heatblast could be capable of similar heats, but exercises more self-restraint so as not to cause collateral damage. The tantrum was very destructive. And on one final interesting note, does this mean that all of Ben's forms are children like he is? I thought that in Ben 10,000 the forms were slightly more mature or changed due to the augmented Omnitrix, but I guess they were actually just adults at that point. 71.120.244.44 13:04, 27 July 2007 (UTC)

Well now that we've seen when the alliens are younger and older, I suppose we could alter the artical to say that the age of the person currently holding the Omnitrix directly affects the age of the alliens in the watch, though it was pretty obvious even before we knew that. I don't think however we need to go into the details of what each allien is like when it is older/younger as it is just a waste of space. Wild ste 17:57, 28 July 2007 (UTC)


 * Then you're going to have to go through the article and remove them since someone has added them. -Sukecchi 01:45, 30 July 2007 (UTC)


 * There we go, though I have no doubt that someone else will add them again: so I'll say it now. It is pointless having what they look like when they are children. Odds are we are never going to see them again so there is no point having what they look like when they are young and how they differ to adults. We have the main fact that they do change in the main part of the artical and thats all we really need.Wild ste 13:01, 31 July 2007 (UTC)

More weaknesses
I found 2 more weaknesses for ripjaws, listen to this


 * In "They lurk below", Ripjaws needs to get back in the sumburine before the watch times out. I started beeping.
 * Ripjaws may have a strong jaw I but he can't break things that are too hard I in "The big tick" where he was batlling the great one. Never sad 13:01, 29 July 2007 (UTC)
 * The reason he needs to get back to the sub is that Ben would drown (or possibly be crushed by pressure, even) if he transformed back deep underwater. That's not really a weakness for Ripjaws, but for Ben. And everyone has limits to their strength. --DarkfireTaimatsu 19:19, 29 July 2007 (UTC)
 * As for the second, a lack of strenght is not a weakness. Basically, if the alien can do something that the average human cannot, it's an advantage.  You Can '  t See Me!  19:25, 29 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Now that it's been mention, though, should we add Ripjaw's pressure resistance? And maybe that he can't get the bends while at it?

Alein Order
Shouldn't we put the Ben's Aleins in oreder from when he first USed them, like original Forms- Heatblast, Wildmutt, Dimondhead, XLR8, Grey Matter, Fourarms, Stinkfly, Ripjaws, Upgrade, Ghostfreak and then Additional alien forms- Cannonbolt, Wildvine, Benwolf, Benmummy, Benvicktor, Upchuck, and last Ditto- RREDD13 20:25, 7 August 2007 (UTC)
 * That might look a little random to the casual reader. Alphabetical works well enough. --DarkfireTaimatsu 21:01, 7 August 2007 (UTC)


 * It's also easier to look up a single alien by alphabetical order than it is by show number. Javo 718 16:07, 9 August 2007 (UTC)


 * Yep, I'd say leave it as it is Wild ste 13:28, 10 August 2007 (UTC)

Way Big
Does anyone got pics of Way Big yet? I think one should be put up - that thing was pretty dang awesome. StupidFrog 00:46, 11 August 2007 (UTC)

Is there any confirmation in the credits that the name was Waybig? I couldn't read them because half the screen was squished aside showing that shitty new live-action series. Why the heck even bother running the credits in a little corner of the screen if nobody can read them? --Piemanmoo 09:13, 11 August 2007 (UTC)

Good point! I think I have it recorded on DVR so I could poke the credits again, thought I doubt I could see anything - my television is fairly small ): - and I could try to get a good picture of Waybig if I needed to. StupidFrog 18:34, 11 August 2007 (UTC)
 * The closed captioning preceeded a few of his lines with "Way Big:", but I don't think that's as good a source. The captions have been known to get stuff (majorly) wrong sometimes.
 * And Way Big's a terrible name, anyway. =3 Ben, what are you thinking? I'd almost prefer another Benalien... --DarkfireTaimatsu 20:32, 11 August 2007 (UTC)

Like Big Ben, or somthing? 69.202.119.212
 * o_o Big Ben. That's brilliant. You should write for this show. --DarkfireTaimatsu 22:16, 11 August 2007 (UTC)


 * I thought of that two days ago... it wouldn't work unless the alien had a British accent. I would have preferred something like Skyscraper, or Gigantor or something. MegaWhatt 18:20, 12 August 2007 (UTC)

I went through the damn tiny credits like ten times trying to decipher it, but as I said, my tv is small and so are the credits. I couldn't read a single word. I got a couple of atleast decent pics of "Waybig" and I'm trying to get better but have little luck. They're the best one can do through a camera lol. I'm sorting through them now and seeing if any are actual worth it (i'm fairly sure none of them really are worth it) StupidFrog 21:14, 12 August 2007 (UTC)

I don't get why it says that Way Big isn't any more durable than normal just because Vilgax hurt him by digging in with his claws. It seemed to do way less damage than it would with any of Ben's other aliens... besides, Vilgax is a super-pumped up enhanced alien... is there anybody he wouldn't hurt when not even Diamondhead can punch him without chipping away at his own hands? That's like saying that humans can't get hurt by bees.MegaWhatt 21:56, 12 August 2007 (UTC)


 * Proportionally speaking, Vilgax's claw was a bee sting to Way Big. If he had been hit by something of similar size (S.A.M., Limax, etc), he would have felt the same way a human would feel if hit by something of comparable size to a human.  You Can '  t See Me!  22:58, 13 August 2007 (UTC)

I read it perfectly his name said way big but skyscraper sounds cooler!

Oh... I get it now. Ah well, it's not the first time I've screwed up, and it won't be the last. But who cares? I can come up with cooler names than Cartoon Network! I'm not a total loser after all!MegaWhatt 17:54, 14 August 2007 (UTC)

tetrax
tetrax is not also known as hoverboard thats just what fans named im or something
 * Actually, the credits and toy line named him this before his true name was revealed. So it's still official. --DarkfireTaimatsu 20:29, 11 August 2007 (UTC)

Don't forget the Ben to the Rescue game. He is called Hoverboard in it.

wildvine and zetsu?
Ive noticed that Wildvine has a key attribute in common with Zetsu a character from Naruto, the humongous venus flytrap around his head. I dont know whether this could be an influence to Wildvine's design seeing as its already been prooven the creator is a fan of naruto seen in Merry Christmas when Mr. Jingles kids are similar to Konohamaru's team, or if its even important enough to put in the article. I just didnt want to edit the article if someone is just going to delete it. Feedback? 207.5.242.4 02:43, 12 August 2007 (UTC)Shiko09
 * Not even remotely important to Wildvine. A coincidence and nothing more. -Sukecchi 03:11, 12 August 2007 (UTC)

Mystery Silhouette
Just out of curiosity, should we mention the silhouette at the beginning of the Ben 10: Secret of the Omnitrix movie? It didn't look like any of Ben's other aliens.MegaWhatt 01:56, 15 August 2007 (UTC)


 * I'm fairly sure that was Way Big's silhouette; I've only seen the opening once and Way Big twice, so I can't be certain. If anybody has recorded it, might as well check.  You Can '  t See Me!  05:06, 15 August 2007 (UTC)


 * It wasn't, and it doesn't correspond to anything else. — Someguy0830 (T | C) 05:18, 15 August 2007 (UTC)

Why does everybody say that it's Way Big? It's got a weird lookin' head for cryin' out loud! But it does look familiar.MegaWhatt 17:23, 15 August 2007 (UTC)


 * Alright. I saw the intro again, and you're right; It's not Way Big. The only other possibility I can think of is that SotO was intended to air after the fourth season ends, so this mystery alien may be something he gets in an upcoming episode.  You Can '  t See Me!  19:06, 15 August 2007 (UTC)
 * Anyone have pictures of what's being talked of here, so I can follow this conversation? Please? --DarkfireTaimatsu 19:42, 15 August 2007 (UTC)

Actually, a very good friend of mine went to Comic-Con and heard there are supposed to be three different versions. Besides, it wouldn't make sense for them to show it in the beginning credits if it's not in the movie. The idiots at Cartoon Network just aren't telling us. I know, you've heard the 'friend' thing before, but I'm serious. If you don't believe me it's mentioned in one of the articles on the front page of Ben10toys.net.MegaWhatt 20:13, 15 August 2007 (UTC)

I had noticed the silhoutte when I first watched the movie, I was hoping it would be a new alien, but I think it was Benwolf. Since we haven't seen many shots of Benwolf, we probably didn't recognise it.

I correct myself... everyone thinks its Way Big... or Benwolf. I've seen the Benwolf silhouette, and that ain't the Ben wolf silhouette. That silhouette had some weird shape around its head.


 * This is why it would be so useful to include the silhouettes as part of this article. -- Lilwik 00:57, 19 August 2007 (UTC)


 * So people could solve a trivial argument on a talk page? No, that's not a reason, and having the silhouettes would not solve the problem anyway. The one in the opening doesn't match any known alien, plain and simple, so stop speculating about it. — Someguy0830 (T | C) 01:10, 19 August 2007 (UTC)


 * How do you know it doesn't match any known alien? Do you have all the silhouettes memorized? If it was important enough for you to memorize, I'm surprised that you can say that it is trivial. -- Lilwik 04:36, 19 August 2007 (UTC)


 * I have the episodes recorded. It takes me a total of one minute to do a comparison, and would have taken you at the most five if you had the intention of trying. It's a trivial argument. — Someguy0830 (T | C) 04:42, 19 August 2007 (UTC)

Meh... who needs record? I've got a photographic memory when it comes to useless junk like this. But either way, silhouettes ain't that important. Deal with it.MegaWhatt 17:01, 19 August 2007 (UTC)


 * I'm just pointing out that this is a perfect illustration of the fact that there are pros and cons to consider on the issue of including the silhouettes in this article. -- Lilwik 05:11, 20 August 2007 (UTC)


 * Except that a talk page argument is not a con. It would only be a con if there was an actual issue, which there is not. There is only idle speculation. There is nothing in this article, or any other, about the random image, and so it is not a con. — Someguy0830 (T | C) 05:16, 20 August 2007 (UTC)

perhaps its ditto or maybe wildvine81.153.49.11 16:57, 28 August 2007 (UTC)

heres where you can find the silhoutte http://www.putfile.com/pic.php?img=6442585

My GUESS is that is the alternate alien mentioned --Addude 00:04, 29 August 2007 (UTC)

ok definetly NOT wildvine or ditto81.153.49.11 10:20, 29 August 2007 (UTC)


 * Cartoon Network has updated their site to include some of the new aliens, including this mystery silhouette... its name is Eye Guy. —Preceding unsigned comment added by MegaWhatt (talk • contribs) 22:13, 31 August 2007 (UTC)

Archiving
The page was at 116 kb; I chopped off approximately 100 kb and shoved it in a third archive. Feel free to salvage anything you need to from Talk:Omnitrix/Archive 3.  You Can '  t See Me!  17:41, 14 August 2007 (UTC)

Re-Design
Hi, i've noticed the long article bit, so i'm going to redesign the page. Check out the effort at User:Stinkfly/Omnitrix --Stinkfly 15:42, 16 August 2007 (UTC)
 * We've already discussed several times that breaking down the article and splitting it into articles about the aliens would not be good in the long run. --DarkfireTaimatsu 18:27, 16 August 2007 (UTC)
 * Not to mention, the image gallery is bulky and awkward. Its position in the lead above the Table of Contents only adds to that awkwardness, as do the brief statements under some of the aliens; I follow the series, and even I had to take a moment to figure out "Original form: purple lightning monster". The prose could use a lot of work as well.  You Can '  t See Me!  20:01, 16 August 2007 (UTC)

Interesting...
In Secret of the Omnitrix, there was a Volaan (Ripjaws species) on Incarsicon. Since he stayed on land for so long, to me it seems that adult Volaans are capable of breathing on dry land. --Ridley76 00:39, 17 August 2007 (UTC)
 * Speculation of the highest caliber. -Sukecchi 00:43, 17 August 2007 (UTC)


 * It's hardly speculation that they are capable of breathing on land, since Ripjaws can speak when not in the water and he can operate effectively with only small exposures to water. Any real creature that cannot breathe without water will not be happy with some water poured onto its head. Ripjaws needs water for something, but it's not to breathe. -- Lilwik 05:08, 17 August 2007 (UTC)
 * Hydration, perhaps...? (More speculation... >_> ) --DarkfireTaimatsu 06:45, 17 August 2007 (UTC)


 * Hm... It's odd, because no matter what, Ripjaws needs the water to even survive. While this adult Ripjaws didn't even look uncomfortable. Much more, he had legs! I thought that ony the Omnitrix Volaan had legs... Interesting...

Maybe since Ben is just a kid it could make all of his aliens kids like the discussion above named AGE REVERSAL where Ben's aliens deage with him. My point is maybe adult ripjaws have the ability to stay on land while the larvae/kid ripjaws don't. Much like how baby frogs (yes I do mean tadpoles) can't last long, but full grown frogs can perhaps the adult version of ripjaws have developed lungs and a the same time kept gills (yeah I know it seems impossible, but after all we are talking about aliens)Youknowme(youdon&#39;tknowme) 20:05, 17 August 2007 (UTC)

I suggest you guys take a closer look at the movie again. The Volaans are clearly wearing some type of "water sacks" around their gills to breathe. I wish I could provide an image to validate this, but sadly I do not have one. The legs controversy, however, is what intrigues me; I'm not sure exactly where it is said that Volaans do not have legs and only the Omnitrix version does (although I do believe it was one of the Bandai profiles), it may have been either improperly worded or it may have been wrong altogether (i.e. Cannonbolt releasing a chemical blast and Wildmutt shooting the quills on his back). BlueX511 21:34, 17 August 2007 (UTC)

Well, Ribjaws can breathe on land, but if he dries out because it's relly hot, he will get weak. Just breathing probably won't be any trouble unless he stays for a really long time or is very active.

Bandai references
All of those all links to the same home page, so why bother make a reference anyway? What do you say about removing them and link the home page to External links? -- Dylan Damien 09:40, 17 August 2007 (UTC)

Petrosapien
Shouldn't it be noted in the Diamondhead section that most of the Petrosapien species is mostly extinct? While some (like Hoverboard for instance) may live elsewhere in the universe, I think a species can be considered mostly extinct if the main number of the population has been wiped out. -- Toa of Gravity August 22, 2007 —The preceding  signed but undated.
 * It doesn't directly apply to Diamondhead himself.  You Can '  t See Me!  23:36, 22 August 2007 (UTC)
 * Plus, being a confirmed spacefaring species, it seems doubtful they're extinct. — Someguy0830 (T | C) 23:51, 22 August 2007 (UTC)

CGI Heatblast
should we put the CGI version of Heatblast in his part of the article??? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Wayside 10 (talk • contribs).

No, it will take up more space then is needed and we only need the Omnitrix transformation one away. It shows what Heatblast looks like and thats all thats really important. Whether its a cartoon picture or a CGI picture doesn't mean anything.Wild ste 19:50, 25 August 2007 (UTC)

true. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 124.197.10.100 (talk) 20:08, August 26, 2007 (UTC)