Talk:List of Pakistani Americans

Terrorists
In this deletion, two names of American Pakistani terrorists were removed on the basis of undue weight. Can anyone explain clearly why this would be undue or should the names be re-added as valid notable Pakistani Americans even if this has a negative connotation? Fæ (talk) 16:31, 25 October 2010 (UTC)
 * I have restored it. clearly an attempt to remove perceived negative info in violation of WP:NPOV.  some of the other individuals in this list are not half as well known as these two.--Wikireader41 (talk) 01:29, 26 October 2010 (UTC)

"some of the other individuals in this list are not half as well known as these two" according to whom? an indian who seems obssessed with pakistan based articles? Hrh80 (talk) 09:48, 26 October 2010 (UTC)


 * Please stick to comments about the article rather than making assumptions, failing to assume good faith and attacking other editors. Refer to WP:ADHOM and WP:OWN. Thanks, Fæ (talk) 10:11, 26 October 2010 (UTC)

to whom are you referring to? Hrh80 (talk) 12:34, 26 October 2010 (UTC)
 * Hrh80 are you saying that the others listed in the article are equally well known as David Headley and Faisal Shahzad? also please read WP:NPA if you dont want to get blocked.  By the way the changes were made by a sock of well known pro Pakistani banned user Nangparbat.--Wikireader41 (talk) 20:14, 26 October 2010 (UTC)
 * also another notable Pakistani American Farooque Ahmed. (BBC), (Dawn), (NPR)--Wikireader41 (talk) 02:29, 28 October 2010 (UTC)

The militants section should be kept as the mentioned persons have articles and clearly satisfy notability; there is nothing undue. And Wikireader41: "Hrh80 are you saying that the others listed in the article are equally well known as David Headley and Faisal Shahzad?" ...surely that is quite naive. Are you flagging an estimated 102 notable individuals in this list on the basis of two more or less (observe the emphasis) notable individuals? Please read the definition of WP:Importance first; let's not take to the assumption here. Also, what has Hrh80 specifically done (notwithstanding the comment above) to be "blocked"? I am afraid your comments here are in bad faith and are not helping this discussion. Mar4d (talk) 13:46, 28 October 2010 (UTC)
 * I think HrH80 violated WP:NPA and that is clearly a blockable offense and that is what I clearly mentioned echoing Fae's sentiments. not assuming good faith per WP:AGF is another one which applies to your comment Mar4d.  the notability of several individuals is marginal at best compared to Faisal and David Headley( as judged by coverage in WP:RS).  Take a look at Sergeant Wasim Khan, Commander Muhammad Muzzafar F. Khan and Pamela Leeming they don't even have an article and yet are used to pad up this list if you are having difficulty understanding my comment.--Wikireader41 (talk) 19:04, 28 October 2010 (UTC)
 * We don't normally block someone immediately in such cases; a warning is sufficient. Per the 'marginal notability' debate surrounding this, your examples are individuals and subjects who may not be as notable as Shahzad and Headley; however, that does not apply to each and every individual on the list as you seem to be saying. WP:Importance says: Determining notability does not necessarily depend on things like fame, importance, or popularity.... and I fail to understand what point your comparison of who's-more-notable-and-who's not is trying to make here. The point that Shahzad and Headley are the most notable Pakistani Americans is your own assumption. Mar4d (talk) 09:35, 29 October 2010 (UTC)
 * Who said Shahzad and Headlley were the MOST notable Pakistani Americans ??  Who said that HrH80 should be blocked immediately ? If you read my comment closely then you will realize that I hyad merely asked him to read WP:NPA if he did not want to be blocked.  It automatically means that I do not think at present his behavior crosses the threshold to require blocking.  I do not think that you will ever understand that Sergeant Wasim Khan, Commander Muhammad Muzzafar F. Khan and Pamela Leeming do not have 10% the notability of shahzad and headley as per criteria mentioned at WP:N.  they do not even have any article dedicated to them in WP and hence those entries need to be deleted.--Wikireader41 (talk) 18:21, 30 October 2010 (UTC)
 * lol @ (user:Wikireader41) Hrh80 (talk) 13:34, 17 November 2010 (UTC)

Defining the inclusion criteria
Looking through some of the members of this list, their classification as "Pakistani American" appears based on highly subjective grounds. For example Munaf Rayani is American and his mother "grew up" in Pakistan. There is no evidence of him having any other connection with Pakistan. I propose that names on this list with no evidence that they were either born in Pakistan and now have American citizenship or vice versa should be removed. Fæ (talk) 04:53, 30 October 2010 (UTC)
 * His article says he is of Indian and Pakistani descent; hence that should be sufficient to define him as a Pakistani American. Mar4d (talk) 07:19, 30 October 2010 (UTC)
 * "Indian and Pakistani descent; hence that should be sufficient to define him as a Pakistani American". LOL . trust me no Indian American would want to be considered Pakistani American. However many Pakistanis in America pretend they are Indian.I think only people of Pakistani heritage ( not Indian) who are US citizens should be included in this list. --Wikireader41 (talk) 18:27, 30 October 2010 (UTC)
 * I don't believe there is any definition of "descent". Is the list to include people who are not connected to Pakistan apart from having a relative who was born in Pakistan? Are there limits to what a qualifying relative might be (just direct parents or including grand-parents)? Fæ (talk) 19:57, 30 October 2010 (UTC)
 * well Pakistan only came into existence in 1947. So I would favor only including persons who either were born in Pakistan themselves or whose parents or grandparents were citizens of Pakistan before coming to US.  Prior to Partition in 1947 it was all India and as such most Pakistani Americans have ancestors who were Indian.  Many Pakistani's have cousins in India ( whose families refused to go to Pakistan at Partition) but that doesn't make them of Indian descent like many Pakistani Americans now pretend.  Likewise I dont think Indian Americans become Pakistani Americans just because they have a cousin In Pakistan.--Wikireader41 (talk) 20:11, 30 October 2010 (UTC)

Lists of names
Lists of names in this article should be sourced in accordance with WP:BLP. As there is no way of constantly maintaining linked articles, this applies to names which have a Wikipedia article as well as those that do not. Any name listed with no verifiable citations should be removed. Refer to WP:NLIST for guidance. Fæ (talk) 12:48, 4 November 2010 (UTC)

Zafar and Mavalvala
With regard to this diff: Please also see Academic titles, it is against the guidelines to include "Dr" before names in the body of the article. Fæ (talk) 13:01, 4 November 2010 (UTC)
 * Mavalvala has a separate article demonstrating notability but to be included as a Pakistani American a footnote needs to be added in this article confirming their nationalities. Without such a footnote they fail the WP:NLIST guideline.
 * Zafar has no wikipedia article and so fails the WP:NLIST guideline for notability. If you believe they are notable, then please create an article for them first.

Copyright problem removed
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Edit request from 65.71.189.66, 11 January 2011
Please add this information to notible Pakistani-Americans (Academic/Medical):

Dr. Nafis Sadik, first female head of the United Nations Population Fund (UNFPA). She is currently Special Adviser to the UN Secretary General with additional responsibilities as Special Envoy for HIV/AIDS in Asia.

Source: There is page in Wikipedia for her already with appropriate sources quoted.

65.71.189.66 (talk) 23:04, 11 January 2011 (UTC)

Not done: This is the article for Pakistani-Americans. Her UN bio indicates only that she is a national of Pakistan, and doesn't say anything about her being a US citizen. As such, I don't see why she belongs on this list. If you have another source verifying she is also an American, please make a new edit request with those details. Contact me on my talk page if you have a question. Qwyrxian (talk) 01:29, 12 January 2011 (UTC)

External links modified
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