Talk:List of Presidential Medal of Freedom recipients/Archive 1

Arbitrary first section
Under the "Other Heads of Government" section, it lists Pope John XXIII and Pope John Paul II - Would these not be more appropriately placed under the "Religion" heading? I know they were both HoG of the Vatican, but surely their main contributions were as religious leaders rather than governmentally?

I have added James D. Watson to the category "Science." Officially his recognition was "Scholar, teacher, author and scientific pioneer, James D. Watson has challenged the mysteries of life itself and charted a new path in mankind's endless search for truth. His intellectual courage and relentless pursuit of scientific knowledge have earned him the respect and admiration of his country and a permanent place as one of the great explorers of the 20th century." Shannon bohle 03:23, 5 November 2007 (UTC)

Economics vs. Business and Economics
Wouldn't it make sense to combine these two? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.255.28.197 (talk) 05:50, 19 March 2008 (UTC)

Non-notable award winners?
Pretty much by definition, all award winners will be "notable," although a few might be "notable for 1 event" and therefore not worthy of their own article.

I suggest that in order to be in the list, the person must either have an article about himself which says he won the award with an appropriate citation or that a citation must be provided in this article. There doesn't need to be citations in both places, although an html-commented citation along the lines of may be helpful, in case the awardee's article later strips the information.

There are a few redlinked and non-linked names that do not have citations. davidwr/ (talk)/(contribs)/(e-mail)  00:09, 31 July 2009 (UTC)

Need help removing references to medaloffreedom.com - defunct and poor-quality source
Can I get some help with removing medaloffreedom.com links? This web site is defunct. An archive.org replacement is probably okay in most cases but I've seen some cases where it's content conflict with other reliable sources, so replacing it altogether is probably best. I've found Google Book searches to be good for people before the Bill Clinton era and List of recent recipients to be good for anyone after May 1993.

Given the sheer number of references and the fact that the site is listed as spam by some projects, it looks like this was a deliberate effort to drive traffic to that site. Not cool.

See here for a Wikipedia article search for medaloffreedom. Happy fixing. davidwr/ (talk)/(contribs)/(e-mail)  01:20, 31 July 2009 (UTC)

How many awardees?
NNDB claims that "It is not known how precisely many Medals of Freedom have been awarded, but the number exceeds 20,000." This site lists approximately 263 names, but given the earlier error and lack of citations, any name on this page should be independently verified.

This seems dubious, as this award originated in the 20th century and there should be good records for each and every recipient. Another web site claims that the number was about 400 near the end of the Clinton administration. This is a lot more credible, as there were about 200 in the 16 years of the Clinton and George W. Bush administrations combined. davidwr/ (talk)/(contribs)/(e-mail)  03:49, 31 July 2009 (UTC)
 * I agree that government sites should be used to verify the awardees.— Chris!  c t 04:26, 31 July 2009 (UTC)

Table organization
With the new 2009 recipients, I was thinking tables could improve readability for users. You want it sorted by year? Done. By area of expertise? Done. By awarding president? Done.

I'll give it a go in my personal sandbox. Comments welcomed. &mdash; MrDolomite &bull; Talk 14:39, 31 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Agreed. Hearing President Obama's award to 16 people, I wanted to have a look here on Wikipedia.  My first reaction was that the current structure was truly awkward.  Further, it begged confusion (Senator Kennedy listed as "U.S. Senators", but how to list Jack Kemp? ... or anyone else who has held more than one significant position, and who might be recognized for all of them).  I definitely think a table layout would improve this article, and would be superior to this "categorized" layout. - Thaimoss (talk) 22:49, 4 August 2009 (UTC)


 * I was actually going to suggest this myself! Glad I checked here. I think it's a fantastic idea. MrDolomite, is there any way I can be of assistance? Lekoman (talk) 04:42, 13 August 2009 (UTC)


 * most definitely a sortable table is needed.98.116.115.180 (talk) 21:39, 17 August 2009 (UTC)

SEE Reorganization below for more current discussion. --Flyguy33 (talk) 19:07, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

Roger Smith entry
I can find no source that verifies that Roger Smith (the GM executive) received the Medal. Has anyone else found one? -- Michael David (talk) 16:37, 19 August 2009 (UTC)
 * The authoritative list for medals after May 5, 1993 does not include him, so I'll zap him shortly. Thanks for catching this.  davidwr/  (talk)/(contribs)/(e-mail)  22:36, 19 August 2009 (UTC)

President Kennedy's role
Folks, I just came across this:

http://www.weeklystandard.com/Content/Protected/Articles/000/000/006/346fvmrc.asp

Apparently President Kennedy himself never actually presented the award during his tenure, Johnson did. This information is not included in the Main Article. I think it should be, do you? -- Michael David (talk) 17:08, 22 August 2009 (UTC)

Karl Holton
Folks,

I notice there is no Main Article on the Medal recipient, Karl Holton. I have biographical data & some images along with sources that I received via email from the New York Public Library Reference Department. I have never created a full Article in Wikipedia as my editing time is limited to fix-ups and adding various dates, etc. If someone is interested in creating a full article on him, I could forward what data I have. Please let me know. -- Michael David (talk) 17:35, 27 August 2009 (UTC)

Strom Thurmond
Undid removal per. davidwr/ (talk)/(contribs)/(e-mail)  20:17, 30 September 2009 (UTC)

Andrew Berry
Andrew Berry is on the list. This is the link I found regarding him;

http://www.myhistorymuseum.org/wwII/1943/berry.htm

Is this medal the same as the Presidential Medal of Freedom? -- Michael David (talk) 00:12, 15 October 2009 (UTC)


 * According to my own research on this one, it is the same. Apparently, the appearance of the medal has changed and, in the early years, was not always presented by the President of the United States. I have added the presentation of Berry's Medal as a reference. If someone else finds some conflicting data, by all means submit it. -- Michael David (talk) 14:55, 6 March 2010 (UTC)

Jorgen Haagen Schmith
Here is some data on Jorgen Haagen Schmith. My time is very limited these days. If someone can create an article on him, here is a beginning:

http://www.timelapse.dk/citronen.php

--- Michael David (talk) 13:41, 17 February 2010 (UTC)

Politics?
Why are the presidents who nominated people for economics listed next to the nominees? Is this political in nature? Perhaps I'm missing something? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Calends (talk • contribs) 00:14, 3 June 2010 (UTC)

Reorganization
Some of the sections are sorted chronologically and others alphabetically by recipient surname. It would be nice to have some consistency - nicer still to be able to choose how to sort.

I'm new to wikipedia editing and discussion pages, so don't want to make the edits myself and don;t know if this is the right place or format to ask the question - so forgive me if I've done something wrong... 92.104.81.253 (talk) 09:09, 25 October 2010 (UTC)David Crutchley 25/10/2010


 * Welcome to Wikipedia, David. And you certainly did not do anything wrong. An Article's discussion page is exactly the right place to ask such questions. I don't know if there is a set policy as to the order Lists such as this are to be sorted. A good place to ask such a policy question is the English Wikipedia Mailing List. I encourage you to register to become a member of this List by emailing the List Owner at mailman-owner@lists.wikimedia.org. In your message, say that you are requesting membership in the English Wikipedia Mailing List (wikiEN-l). Then, once you are a member of this List you can ask the question there. -- Michael David (talk) 11:59, 25 October 2010 (UTC)


 * Welcome as well, I agree that this article could use a cleanup, I've added a cleanup template message at the top of the page to draw some attention to that. I believe there should be some discussion as to whether each individual category should be sorted alphabetically or chronologically. Additionally, I believe the order of the categories on the page could be look at as well. What do others have to say? --Flyguy33 (talk) 19:05, 18 November 2010 (UTC)


 * Thanks, Flyguy, for making this suggestion. I agree with both you and David that there needs to be some consistency in the order of things. First, I think that each of the main categories should be listed alphabetically. Then, where there are subcategories, these should also be listed alphabetically. As for the names within the Categories, I think listing these, also, alphabetically would help if the reader is looking for a specific person. Lastly, I think adding the presenting President's name to each person should be eliminated as it crowds the list and doesn't really add any new information. The year it was presented should be enough. -- Michael David (talk) 22:24, 18 November 2010 (UTC)


 * Michael, great work. The alphabetizing of the categories already makes the page look better. I also agree that the names would probably look better listed alphabetically within each category and that the awarding President is unnecessary. The year the medal was awarded should be sufficient. --Flyguy33 (talk) 18:28, 21 November 2010 (UTC)


 * Another thought: Is there anywhere on the List Page where a message such as, "All Categories, Sub-Categories & Recipients' names are listed alphabetically" could be posted? (A note to the readers & a strong hint to the editors :-)) -- Michael David (talk) 19:12, 21 November 2010 (UTC)


 * The common trend on other list pages seems to be that the lead begins with This is an alphabetical list of... Once this list is alphabetized, I suggest that the lead sentence be rewritten as This is an alphabetical, partial list of recipients of the Presidential Medal of Freedom --Flyguy33 (talk) 19:16, 21 November 2010 (UTC)


 * Today, after I finished alphabetizing the rest of the List, I tried to add the phrase, "This is an alphabetized...", but there was no way to save the edit. Is the Article too long to be able to edit just the first part - or is it my poor, geriatric browser :-). -- Michael David (talk) 19:12, 22 November 2010 (UTC)