Talk:List of Press Gang episodes

Episode list screen shots
I respect that the screen shots that I added for each episode were removed, but find it a bit contradictory that 75% of episode coverage for other show's on Wikipedia get away with it - just check out, for pure example, List of Star Trek: The Original Series episodes, List of Star Trek: The Next Generation episodes, List of Star Trek: Deep Space Nine episodes, List of Star Trek: Voyager episodes, List of Star Trek: Enterprise episodes, List of DangerMouse episodes, List of King of the Hill episodes, any of the 18 seasons of The Simpsons (season 1) onwards... the list is endless. Although what is fair use on Wikipedia is a bit of a grey area, I don't think that the PG screen-shots weren't doing anything that these other pages get away with. If other pages can do it, why not the one for our show? I'd like to hear what others think. Jay Firestorm 13:13, 13 February 2007 (UTC)
 * You're right, it's an ongoing problem, but one that should hopefully be nearing the end. The board have issued a statement that further emphasises that our quest for creating a free encyclopedia involves being hesitant and suspicious about using fair use. The truth is that there are far more fan boys, newbies, etc., with the ability to upload images than there are people who understand our fair use policy and 'free goal'.
 * The lists you mention are not simple that they 'can' have images: they just have a large army of geeks who insist that it enhances the pages. They really don't: such attitudes are simply an illustration of our dumbed down visual culture. It's interesting that the sources we have both cited for Press Gang do not use images, and they manage to communicate effectively.
 * The point is that images in lists are merely there to make the pages look pretty. This is against our fair use policy.
 * Consistency is important, but that should be gained by images being removed, not use making the situation worse. The JPS talk to me  13:34, 13 February 2007 (UTC)
 * The only consensus on wikipedia concerning images in lists of episodes pages is that we're not going to change the rules to outlaw them. A minority of users are trying to remove them based on their own ideas about what is "decorative."  The statement referenced above concerns replaceable images (basically images of living people like actors) and doesn't effect images that can't have a free alternative such as screenshots.  We just went through this at List of Heroes episodes, here's the discussion.  The key to having images is that they should match the accompanying summary well and be unique and representative of their episode.  They should also have a detailed fair use rational on the image page, for example: Image:Heroes s01e02.jpg. - Peregrine Fisher 19:08, 13 February 2007 (UTC)
 * I agree that any image is more likely to pass if it is "representative of their episode", but only if the elements of the image is being discussed (lighting, composition, etc.) = "critical commentary." Otherwise they are decorative. They (generally) achieve nothing that words cannot adequately express. There's only a 'consensus' because there are more fanboys out there than editors applying policy accurately. IIMO, the overuse of images makes Wikipedia and its editors look immature. The JPS talk to me  20:19, 13 February 2007 (UTC)
 * That's your opinion, and I understand, but don't agree. I, and many others wikipedians, feel the images identify the subject of each episode, and specifically illustrate relevant points and sections within the text. The same as all good images on wikipedia.  As far as calling the dedicated wikipedias that create these pages "fanboys," that's an Ad hominem argument and a logical fallacy. - Peregrine Fisher 21:03, 13 February 2007 (UTC)
 * It is indeed something we're not going to solve tonight. Obviously theer might be sophisticated editors in support of them. But many are teen fanboys: a product of the increasingly visual, dumbed down culture.  The JPS talk to me  21:07, 13 February 2007 (UTC)
 * Cool, at least we understand each other. - Peregrine Fisher 21:20, 13 February 2007 (UTC)

Cast lists
Is the cast list really necessary for each season? They are practically identical -- there are only a handful of changes (Kenny, Sam, Julie), which are well described in the summaries. I don't think any of the other list articles have these. It's beginning to look more and more like Newton's page! (Thanks for your work, though). The JPS talk to me  22:27, 13 February 2007 (UTC)


 * This page is crying out for individual episode pages that can contain information like cast, it just won't fit here. - Peregrine Fisher 09:58, 3 March 2007 (UTC)
 * Yeah, they will be good. My wish is that they are created steadily and properly, rather than quickly and superficial. I've been looking at the Scrubs, and others, episode articles, and many are weak: having being created simply to turn a red link blue. Also, we shouldn't be too dependent on Newton's (very good) site. If I were Matthew, I'd be a little miffed that we copy his lits of trivia (a no-no section anyway) and first/last appearances. I suggest that we go for the most notable episodes first (what is considered notable is down to individual urge to work on them). The JPS talk to me  10:23, 3 March 2007 (UTC)

Section move
I'd like to propose we move the DVD information to below the episode listing. For one, a part from the LOE pages, it's generally standard practice among TV and Film articles to put DVD info last. This is a List of Episodes page, and not a List of DVDs page, so the first thing a reader should see should be the episodes. It's also a bit misleading to have it under "Series overview" (or something similar), because it isn't an overview or a summary. It's just a table for the DVD releases. I recently adjusted List of Smallville episodes to reflect that, moving the DVD info below the episodes under the new header of "Home video release", which is more appropriate given what it actually is. This isn't a major change, but I'd rather come to the talk pages of all the relevant LOE pages first.  BIGNOLE     (Contact me)  12:14, 14 April 2009 (UTC)

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