Talk:List of Puerto Ricans in the United States Space Program

Neutrality
Doesn't the very existence of this page give undue emphasis to the nationality of certain employees of NASA? When looking at the manual of style regarding the usage of flags, there is a statement that says Wikipedia is not a place for nationalistic pride. Doesn't this page fly in the face of such a policy?

Comments?? WikiDan61 ChatMe!ReadMe!! 17:17, 7 January 2011 (UTC)

Comments or opinions


 * First of all I would like to state that I am not interested in being involved in a lenghly never ending discussion of this topic, like most discussions usually end up being, however I will give my opinion as rightfully requested by WikiDan61 and invite those intersted in expressing thier opinions to do the same. This is solely my own personal opinion.

I do not believe that the article is making an emphasize on the Nationality of the subjects in the "list" and instead it makes an emphasize on the contributions which notable scientists and professionals have made to the United States Space program which falls under the umbrella of the agency which is known as NASA.

The reference given above is in regard to the use of "flag images" and an example of what an emphasize of nationality without good reason is given in the following statement: "For example, with an English flag next to him, Paul McCartney looks like an "English singer-songwriter from Liverpool who was in the Beatles"; without the flag next to him, he looks like an "English singer-songwriter from Liverpool who was in the Beatles". Emphasizing the importance of a person's citizenship or nationality above their other qualities risks violating Wikipedia's "Neutral point of view" policy."

The list solely has short profiles of notable people who happen to be Puerto Rican and has nothing to do with national pride, it should allowed to exist for the same reason that hundreds of other "lists" such as List of Russian ballet dancers, List of American composers and List of Chinese painters exist even though they target a nationalistic group.

As I said this only my opinion and due to the limitation of my time I am not intersted in an agruement. Thank you. Tony the Marine (talk) 20:30, 7 January 2011 (UTC)


 * No, the list does not violate policy. If the basis for objecting to this list is going to be nationalistic pride, then we would have to object to other lists, such as List of Indians by net worth, List of American Orthodox bishops, List of Americans of Irish descent or --for that matter-- List of Americans, as all such articles could be argued by someone to show nationalistic pride. In any event, nationalistic pride is not listed in the wikipedia policy in question; what the policy is warning against is propaganda, which is vastly different: whether or not an article violates policy has never been based on whether or not the contributing editor was motivated by nationalistic pride, but on whether or not an article includes text that is non-neutral (POV). Otherwise all other lists including some nationality in their titles would also have to be objected to. Obviously, this is the wrong interpretation of the propaganda policy. But thanks Dan for your thoughtfulness in listing the concern on the PR project page. My name is Mercy11 (talk) 01:09, 8 January 2011 (UTC) and I approve this message.


 * I don't see any problem with this article. Agree with Tony The Marine and Mercy11 .It should be kept. Pr4ever (talk) 22:48, 8 January 2011 (UTC)


 * MOS:FLAGS covers, well, the use of flags in the mainspace. That is different from the format used in an article. As a matter of fact, one of out featured lists, List of Puerto Rican boxing world champions, has a similar format (albeit a lot simpler, due to the nature of the sport). -  Ca ri bb e a  n ~ H. Q.  07:07, 9 January 2011 (UTC)


 * Thanks for the opinions. I guess my feelings were in the minority.  WikiDan61 ChatMe!ReadMe!! 13:31, 9 January 2011 (UTC)
 * Your concern was legitimate, and your post is appreciated. Pr4ever (talk) 01:49, 18 January 2011 (UTC)


 * I would delete the flag from the infobox. Racepacket (talk) 08:41, 10 January 2011 (UTC)
 * Mercy11 has hit the nail on the head. But what about the notability of individual entries? How does notability work in something supposed to be a comprehensive list? You'll have to jog my memory on this; I've been here for ages but I generally avoid lists. Joseph M. Acaba most definitely should be there, but Desiree Santa, "Congressional Liaison/Research Opportunity Administrator"? Shayla Rivera, who hasn't worked at NASA since 2004 at the latest? It does claim to be a list of notable Puerto Rican scientists after all. -Ashley Pomeroy (talk) 19:40, 26 January 2011 (UTC)


 * The "list" is about notable Puerto Ricans in the US Space Program, both scientists and professionals. Some of the professionals listed are among the the first in their national (Puerto Rican) or ethnic (Hispanic) origins who have reached the top ranks in NASA, serving in sensitive leadership positions and therefore as such are listed. I do, however agree in what is said about Shayla Rivera. Tony the Marine (talk) 18:08, 2 February 2011 (UTC)