Talk:List of Samurai Shodown characters/Archive 1

Untitled
My current plan of action: At this point, cleanup is done and the article is no longer dirty. However, because some outspoken editors have made complaints, this step must be completed before we ever hear the end of it: If you would like to fix any of the above problems, be my guest. It's more constructive that way. -MissingNOOO 21:34, 6 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Get infoboxes done.
 * Revise and cite or mark in need of citation where source is not easily found. Make sure material does not violate copyright.
 * Add in relevant real-world information from secondary sources.

--Unfortunately I'm not very knowledgable about Samurai Showdown (Which was part of my initial outrage seeing I couldn't learn more), but if theres a good source of this information somewhere it should be posted so those of us who arent't as knowledgable but want to help can help transcribe some of the information. --Kayin 08:28, 11 November 2007 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:Jinemon.jpg
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BetacommandBot (talk) 05:31, 19 December 2007 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:Ran-po.jpg
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BetacommandBot (talk) 05:35, 19 December 2007 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:Genan.jpg
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BetacommandBot (talk) 05:39, 19 December 2007 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:Hanma.jpg
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BetacommandBot (talk) 05:43, 19 December 2007 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:Wanfu.jpg
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BetacommandBot (talk) 05:48, 19 December 2007 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:Hanzo (Samurai Shodown).jpg
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BetacommandBot (talk) 05:54, 19 December 2007 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:Haohmaru.jpg
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BetacommandBot (talk) 05:55, 19 December 2007 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:Saya (Samurai Shodown).jpg
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BetacommandBot (talk) 05:58, 19 December 2007 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:Rasetsumaru.jpg
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BetacommandBot (talk) 06:02, 19 December 2007 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:Mizuki.jpg
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BetacommandBot (talk) 06:09, 19 December 2007 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:Genjuro.jpg
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BetacommandBot (talk) 06:10, 19 December 2007 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:Basara.jpg
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BetacommandBot (talk) 06:24, 19 December 2007 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:Shiki (Samurai Shodown).jpg
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BetacommandBot (talk) 06:53, 19 December 2007 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:Sugoroku.jpg
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BetacommandBot (talk) 06:57, 19 December 2007 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:Suija.jpg
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BetacommandBot (talk) 07:00, 19 December 2007 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:Shizumaru.jpg
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BetacommandBot (talk) 07:20, 19 December 2007 (UTC)

Character Sections
I know that there are some characters missing from Warriors Rage (PS1) but I don't really know them so I can't update them. Also, the SSZero characters are unknown to me since I haven't played that one of the series. :( Anyone else who knows them can edit them. Sake neko 02:45, 9 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Okay, for anyone watching (and for my own reference), here's the way each character section is set up.
 * Out-of-universe description: includes historical inspiration, real-world explanations for character origins, developer comments or info, quick character relevance to series or relevant notes regarding appearance history (ie: Charlotte being dropped in SS3 but is back in SS4, Shizumaru as new protagonist in SS3, ect)
 * Character arc: includes official backstory and endings from games; what are they doing in each appearance; if the character's reasons for fighting are very similar in every appearance, then it gets summarized in a couple of sentences; only include RPG if it is dramtically different than cannon
 * Gameplay: how each character fights; differences between Slash and Bust forms; how characters who share styles differ from one another; miscellaneous notes during play that may not be understood by everyone (ie: Kyoshiro's theatricalism, Ukyo's poetry, Genjuro's hanafuda)
 * Other Info: other appearances in the series or crossovers, critical comments found in books, reviews, or whatever regarding the specific character (in which a critic specifically phrases "Ukyo is godly" or something along these lines), appearances in merchandise

This isn't final or anything -since I haven't found all the sources needed yet- but it's a start. Sake neko (talk) 04:39, 1 January 2008 (UTC)

Images
We really need to utilize the rationale boxes and start filling them up. That damn bot keeps deleting all of the pics that don't have the rationales filled, without any regard because, hey, Wikipedia, saving their own paranoid/delusional ass' one pissed off user at a time right? Seperate articles would really help - this HUGE page took a minute to load on my computer, and it would seem to be difficult (since Wikipedia, in all it's logic has deemed regulations and guidelines that contradict, confuse and make no friggin sense) since people and would-be admins are deleting things and merging left and right at their own crusade of Wikipedian honour. 24.81.135.123 (talk) 10:40, 23 January 2008 (UTC)
 * The only reason why images cannot be loaded onto this article is because it's a user sub-page and it's against policy to add them. If we restore the article to wikispace, then we can upload images. Agreed on the size issue, though. I was thinking of splitting the articles somehow but I don't know what would be entirely appropriate. The closest I could think of was splitting the 3D exclusive characters to their own sub page when -or if- this is restored again. Sake neko (talk) 16:42, 22 February 2008 (UTC)

Split-page decision
Article was split because of the size (originally a whopping 212 kilo) but the article it was split into is a tentative title. If anyone wants to, they can rename it. Sake neko (talk) 08:17, 17 March 2008 (UTC)

Japanese text for voice actors, birthplaces, etc
Is it really necessary? It seems a bit superfluous to me... Especially when referring to birthplaces like, say, "Texas"... And while I kinda appreciate its presence for the names of the weapons and (imaginary) fighting styles, I'm not sure it should be there in those cases either, based on what I've seen of Wikipedia so far... 88.161.129.43 (talk) 01:16, 3 April 2008 (UTC)

Name order
Why are we using both name orders (Japanese and Western) in the article? Shouldn't we be using the Western name order? Or is it because of "historical" characters like Amakusa or Hanzō? 88.161.129.43 (talk) 01:16, 3 April 2008 (UTC)
 * It's because of the historical character reasons. While this may not apply to everybody, it'll be pretty weird to flip-flop throughout the whole article for the rest of the Eastern characters. Characters like Charlotte and Galford were excluded because they are better recognized by gamers for their first name than their last name. At least that's what user:MissingNOO intended. I pretty much sticked by it. Sake neko (talk) 03:04, 4 April 2008 (UTC)
 * That's what I figured, but it's not like Jūbee and Hanzō can be the historical ones anyway, right? Amakusa is out of place as well, but at least, he has an excuse. ^_^; Is there anybody else? I don't know, I'd think that kind of reasoning would work best for series like xxxxxxx Musō, Sengoku Basara or Onimusha... 88.161.129.43 (talk) 08:52, 4 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Hey there's Yoshitora too y'know! XD L'see, I don't think there's anymore other than those guys that I can think of. Can't do much with Basara and Kusaregedo since there are no last names to their character just a title of sorts (or we could go by their lesser known English counterparts). I'd personally have it stay this way though; it took a lot of work to even reverse a lot of these names and some of them were previously spelled wrong. I'll bend if more people agree to go Western order for the whole article though. :) Sake neko (talk) 22:36, 4 April 2008 (UTC)
 * I, for one, would rather keep all Japanese names in the Japanese order... but here, I think we need to be consistent with the rest of Wikipedia. Oh, and since you mentioned the "titles"... What about "Rashōjin"? Is that really supposed to be a name? 88.161.129.43 (talk) 20:05, 5 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Well, Wikipedia's supposed to work with community consensus for debatable matters for a work/article. Ideally, five or six other users will voice their opinions as well and then the community will carry out the most preferred option. The Japanese order notion for the older -and er... now non-existent- article was voted against. When this article was deleted half a year back, there were still complaints on the talk page on which order it should be. Like I said, User:MissingNOOOO made the notion on the article and I carried it out. Back then, it was okay since it was still a user subpage. Now that it's back on mainspace, it'll be up to consensus to see if the names will stay as they are or flip back to Western order. Policy at times, takes a step back if the community doesn't agree completely with it. Technically we don't have a community yet -since it's like maybe three people reading this- but hopefully it'll come with time.


 * Oh, and Rashōjin? English says it's a title with the whole "Marauding Deity" bit but I think it's just a name. :P Sake neko (talk) 18:14, 6 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Do you remember the arguments in favor of the Japanese order, in that debate? I can only think of a few... 1) Generally speaking, I think it makes more sense to list Japanese names in the Japanese order (same thing for Chinese names or whatever). 2) There are a few characters that are based on historical figures (whose names are generally listed in Japanese order). 3) I believe the announcer says the names in the Japanese order even in the English versions of the games (but I guess there may be exceptions for a few entries in the series?). 1) appears to be moot on Wikipedia, and for the rest, in my opinion, 2) there are too few "historical" characters to justify an exception for this article (plus some of them don't even "fit" at all, historically), and 3) I'm not sure English-speaking players pay that much attention to the voice (as compared to the names that appear under the health bars, for example), especially when said voice obviously speaks Japanese... And while I do prefer the Japanese order, I believe it wouldn't be that big an issue to keep the English order anyway, as the original Japanese order would still appear right after the kanji/kana spelling, and we could simply refer to the character by his "usual name" the rest of the time (when in doubt about the "usual name", we could check the official bios and see which name the narrator uses). The only problem I'd see would maybe be the listing order... If we keep it simply alphabetical all the way, those of us who are used to the Japanese order might feel a bit "lost". Maybe we could create sections such as "introduced in Samurai Shodown", "introduced in Samurai Shodown II", "introduced in Samurai Shodown III" and so on? I think that would make the whole list a bit less intimidating (regardless of the debate at hand, really). I guess we could even use the listing order of the series official site overall? But then again, maybe Wikipedia has strict policies regarding listing orders... 88.161.129.43 (talk) 15:04, 7 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Arguments for and against the Japanese name order were basically the ones you mentioned (in a nutshell). I actually asked to do a similar categorization too before the article got "deleted" -I think it was supposed to be merged somehow- but it was rejected at the time. There's nothing really that says we can't do it; it's more like how other users might respond to it. Again, I personally think this type of decision needs more people to voice their opinions on it before making it since it'll be a lot of work either way. Should we invite other users to comment here too? This place is oddly being ignored. ^^; Sake neko (talk) 04:49, 8 April 2008 (UTC)

List of Samurai Shodown Characters
If you're going to attempt to salvage that, you really need to trim it down. You need to get rid of the infoboxes. They take up way too much space and they're just unnecessary. If it's important, include it in the prose. You should try to get them all down to two paragraphs (three for the major characters). Remember that the sections are to describe the characters in general. The main game articles should take care of the plot. Also, characters that only appear in a few games should just redirect right to their game of origin. There is no need to list them all. The end result should be between fifty to sixty KB. TTN (talk) 23:41, 8 May 2008 (UTC)
 * I like the suggestions but I'd rather they be shared with everyone and not just me. I've had that trimming idea for sometime now and even though there's that wikiBold and size policy, a lot of people may not understand the reason for a trim. It may seem futile but I'd like to repost your suggestions on the article's discussion page because 1) it'll give time for anyone else to notice and see if they really care and 2} to see if anyone else will help with the change. Frankly, it's a little demoralizing to see that most of the newer edits made by other editors have been over the more trivial details. Is this all right with you? Sake neko (talk) 09:06, 9 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Do whatever you would like. TTN (talk) 13:49, 9 May 2008 (UTC)