Talk:List of Scream (film series) characters/Archive 1

Reformatting
This list was reformatted to resemble other "List of characters in" pages, such as List of characters on Scrubs, List of The Sopranos characters, List of Clueless characters, List of Ocean's Trilogy characters, etc., that group characters into primary and secondary characters.

Additionally, the article previously contained statements of assumption, such as "he is assumed to have killed the couple in the cinema that went to watch Stab", "It is assumed that Roman was conceived during one of these parties"; non-standard formatting that showed the actor's name and character's film appearance as a bulleted item; and a overly general format of storytelling and rehashing of plot details that are already included in each of the film articles. The article previously read like prose structured in large blocks of information rather than well-stated concise paragraphs.

Furthermore, extremely minor characters, such as Officers Andrews & Richards, "Reporter", Lois & Murphy, etc. who are not instrumental to the plot are barely worth mentioning. Sottolacqua (talk) 20:27, 10 August 2010 (UTC)

Re:
There is no doubt that the article suffers from grammatical errors that most definitely need to be fixed. Does that mean reformatting is necessary? Absolutely not. Is reformatting beneficial? If it's done right. This particular reformatting takes out many things that are helpful and encyclopedic; specifically, the film each character appears in and who plays the character. Since parodies are unrelated to the character itself, I don't see a problem in deleting that. But to delete the actor who plays a character and which films the character appears in is nonsense. A reader should not have to browse another article to obtain which character is in which film. The film pages are about the films itself, including who appears in it. But the character page is about the characters, including which films they appear in. Neither are redundant because the articles are separate.

And your claim about "extremely minor characters" wasn't really thought about fully. Every character on this page needs to have at least one of the following:
 * 1) A picture credit
 * 2) Was a victim of Ghostface
 * 3) Appeared in at least two films or more

The characters included have been given broad standards, but it still makes them notable within the series nevertheless. What you claim is minor may differ from someone else; now we're getting into opinion. With set criteria for character inclusion on this page, it's easier to avoid disagreements. Feel free to fix grammar. Thank you. Geeky Randy (talk) 15:18, 12 August 2010 (UTC)


 * Look at the changes more closely. The actor portraying each character is still included in each individual description: "Roman Bridger (Scott Foley)", "Billy Loomis (Skeet Ulrich)", etc, and mirrors the formatting seen in plot descriptions of other film articles. Additionally, the films each character appear in are also included in the character description. These films contain main characters and supporting characters just as every other film does. Categorizing characters in a film series using a list format by the film in which they appear rather than alphabetically is more difficult and awkward, especially if characters appear in multiple films.


 * Why does their status as "a victim of Ghostface" need to be flagged? If the character dies, their death is described in the narrative. Additionally, if the character appears in more than one film the description already notes that. Rather than categorize the characters as Major/Minor I'll rename the labels to "Main" and "Supporting".  Sottolacqua  (talk) 15:33, 12 August 2010 (UTC)


 * I've rearranged the Supporting characters section to organize them alphabetically by film. Main characters are those who have appeared in at least two of the films.  Sottolacqua  (talk) 17:11, 12 August 2010 (UTC)


 * This section lacks so much. I know your intention was to clean things up, but you just made the article less encyclopedic.  There are less than half the characters.  No way will this slide.  Geeky Randy (talk) 22:33, 12 August 2010 (UTC)


 * I think this format is much better. It's the format that List of Saw characters uses and I see that many other articles use it too.  Anyway, I did do some minor cleanup, such as: Italicize the headings (titles of film should always be in italics), removed Scream 4 from "Appeared in"; they can't appear in something that hasn't been released (though it can be written as "Neve Campbell is set to appear in Scream 4" in the prose along with a source), removed trivia that is better suited (and probably taken) from IMDb, and finally added some "fact" tags next to some unsourced bits.  Randy, what is it that the section lacks?   Mike   Allen   23:14, 12 August 2010 (UTC)
 * Wait.. Randy undid the revision that Sottolacqua did. I was thinking he formatted the article like it is now.  Um no, the way you had it just doesn't work for a film with many characters.  I agree with Randy and leave the format like it is.  Mike   Allen   23:21, 12 August 2010 (UTC)
 * He's yet again changed the format. That is no valid rationale on coming in and changing an established and functioning format because it is "used in some other articles". You're turning into an unnecessary edit war.  Also listing who was parodied in Scary Movie?  Seriously?   Mike   Allen   02:40, 13 August 2010 (UTC)

This article reads like a junior high book report and uses a non-standard format of noting actors who portrayed characters and which films they appeared in. There are phrases such as "Like Gale Weathers, there is always a reporter ready for a story", "taking over from Tori Spelling" (who does not appear in any of the films), "he is assumed to have killed the couple in the cinema that went to watch Stab", "he does the killings", "Lois and Murphy are sorority sisters with an agenda", etc. There are also several entries that are clearly wp:or. Also, the article uses individual apostrophes instead of italics coding, as in the description for John Milton, Jennifer Jolie, Maureen Evans, etc.  Sottolacqua  (talk) 03:51, 13 August 2010 (UTC)
 * What is written in prose has nothing to do with the STYLE of how it's written. What are you talking about?  Copy edit the prose and leave the format of how it's presented alone. There is no "standard" on how to present a "List of characters" article, editors use what is best for the article. I never said this article was a good article, I said the articles you are comparing it to are not GA or FA.  Stop your edit warring and quit pushing your point of view.   Mike   Allen   04:02, 13 August 2010 (UTC)
 * Thank you, Mike. Sottolacqua is doing what he thinks is best for the article, but the reformatting is unacceptable and his edit warring is unproductive.  Geeky Randy (talk) 22:00, 13 August 2010 (UTC)
 * Reformatting the article is acceptible and your edit warring and actions of ownership of the article as a primary editor without actually participating in the discussion here are clearly disruptive.  Sottolacqua  (talk) 22:44, 13 August 2010 (UTC)
 * Nice try. You're getting awefully close into wondering WP:INTIM.  Feel free to take it to WP:DRR because I'm not backing down.  As someone who has done very much work on this article, I'd say "without actually participating in the discussion" is a bit of a stretch, not to mention the dangling of WP:OWN.  Geeky Randy (talk) 03:04, 14 August 2010 (UTC)

Engaging in an edit war is not "meeting half way". The following characters were removed:

Hank Loomis
 * Portrayed by C. W. Morgan
 * Appeared in: Scream, Scream 3

Hank Loomis is the father of Billy. He separated from his wife after she found out he was having an affair with Maureen Prescott. Despite the Loomis family being broken apart, Hank remains by his son's side when Billy is being interrogated because he's a person of interest. It is later revealed that Billy was shown footage of Hank and Maureen meeting at a motel, which proved that the rumors of the affair were true.

Chief Hartley
 * Portrayed by Lewis Arquette
 * Appeared in: Scream 2

Hartley is the Chief in the city that the Windsor College Murders are occurring. Lewis Arquette is David Arquette's father.

Joel
 * Portrayed by Duane Martin
 * Appeared in: Scream 2

Joel is Gale's cameraman during the Windsor College Murders. He's very aware of his surroundings and fears he may suffer the same fate Gale's former cameraman Kenny did. Whenever there is a sign of trouble, Joel disappears. He's very cautious and sensitive about the murders.

In an early draft of Scream 2, Joel is one of Sidney's friends at college, and Randy Meeks is Gale's cameraman instead.

Lois & Murphy
 * Portrayed by Rebecca Gayheart (Lois) and Portia de Rossi (Murphy)
 * Appeared in: Scream 2

Lois and Murphy are sorority sisters with an agenda. They're overly nice to Sidney and want her to join their sorority. Due to Sidney's popularity from Stab and the fact that Lois and Murphy both have a crush on her boyfriend Derek, they're both envious and jealous of her.

Officers Andrews and Richards
 * Portrayed by Philip Pavel (Andrews) and Chris Doyle (Richards)
 * Appeared in: Scream 2

Andrews and Richards are officers that are assigned as Sidney's security guards. Her boyfriend Derek finds them amusing. They tend to do a terrible job guarding Sidney when Cotton Weary is able to harass her in the library and ultimately the killer kills both of them (slitting the throat of one and impaling the other's head on a pipe) and Hallie.

Reporter
 * Portrayed by Nancy O'Dell
 * Appeared in: Scream 2, Scream 3

Like Gale Weathers, there is always a reporter ready for a story. Nancy O'Dell plays a reporter who is there from the first time Weathers releases Stab, to its last drop of blood as the cast of Stab 3: Return to Woodsboro start dropping like flies. She is seen giving an interview to Tori Spelling, who starred as Sidney Prescott in Stab, and is also seen reporting the death of Cotton Weary, a principal character in the Stab series. This is a reporter who was there from Stab's rise to popularity, to its fall into another bloodbath.

Tyson Fox
 * Portrayed by Deon Richmond
 * Appeared in: Scream 3

Tyson is an actor playing the role of Ricky, a video store clerk (hinted at being a Randy substitute), in 'Stab 3'. He is stabbed and thrown out of a window and a metal detector is placed next to his body for Sidney to use. He is the killer's seventh victim.

Steven Stone
 * Portrayed by Patrick Warburton
 * Appeared in: Scream 3

Stone is Jennifer Jolie's bodyguard before the killer stabs him in the back and kills him making him the fourth victim in the film.

These characters can barely be considered "supporting" for the roles they play in the film, and the descriptions are poorly written. "Like Gale Weathers, there is always a reporter ready for a story." "Joel is Gale's cameraman during the Windsor College Murders. He's very aware of his surroundings and fears he may suffer the same fate Gale's former cameraman Kenny did.  Whenever there is a sign of trouble, Joel disappears.  He's very cautious and sensitive about the murders." "Lois and Murphy are sorority sisters with an agenda." These look ridiculous and provide no character exposition that is not already covered in the Plot sections of their respective film.  Sottolacqua  (talk) 04:12, 14 August 2010 (UTC)


 * Additionally, I've included the "portrayed by"/"appeared in" bullets that I originally deleted based on the discussions above. That's part of "meeting half way"/compromising.  Sottolacqua  (talk) 04:34, 14 August 2010 (UTC)


 * I'm trying to be civil. I'm assuming good faith, knowing that you just want to help.  But, again, with your division of "main" and "supporting" characters; what are you basing your criteria off of?  To me, it sound like just your opinion.  Please read WP:NPOV as well as WP:CK.  You have no good reason--at least none that has been provided--to remove these characters.  I'm telling you, the reasons you've provided aren't going to cut it.  Please stop with the deleting of characters and reformatting.  Geeky Randy (talk) 05:06, 14 August 2010 (UTC)


 * There is no division of "main" and "supporting." The characters are grouped by film as they were before. The only items that have changed are the character descriptions and removal of eight characters, one of which doesn't even have a name. Please read wp:own.  Sottolacqua  (talk) 05:11, 14 August 2010 (UTC)
 * I don't see how I'm violating WP:OWN. Your reasoning for removing those eight characters remain unexplained.  It's your opinion they have no value to the article.  Does that make it a fact?  No.  Does that make it right to remove them?  No.  Every character has driven the plot somehow, something you acknowledge but said we had to refer to the actual article to the film because it doesn't need to be in this list.  Why?  You're contradicting your own logic by saying something is okay, but can't be included.  Geeky Randy (talk) 05:26, 14 August 2010 (UTC)
 * You obviously aren't comparing the changes I've made or the attempts to compromise with your reasoning, assuming earlier edits (which you've also blindly reverted and edit warred) are the same as later edits and even going so far as to accuse me of "changing what I earlier wrote" in order to deceive you before realizing your own mistake.


 * Instead of simply reinserting the characters you feel I have unnecessarily removed and accepting the changes I've made to the poor style of writing and storytelling that the other character descriptions include, you continue to edit war and play reversion games. You obviously feel that you own this article, justifying your edit warring on the fact that you "care about the article [you helped build"]. If you want your article to read like junior high drivel and others to include a clumsily-formatted chart (that anticipates the possible announcement that deceased characters will return for another sequel), that's the way they will stay.  Sottolacqua  (talk) 08:24, 14 August 2010 (UTC)

Removed edits
This was the first page that I edited with my account. I added the last names of Mickey, Derek, Kenny, Joel, and Hallie (I don't remember if I added anyone else). Also, I added a bit to Joel's biography. All of this was removed. Is there a reason for this? Thanks in advance. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Starwarsmaniac42 (talk • contribs) 01:39, 13 March 2011 (UTC)
 * I don't know anything about Joel, the last names were removed because they aren't officially their names, Scream Wikia has a lot of incorrect information and shouldn't be used as a source.Darkwarriorblake (talk) 23:01, 13 March 2011 (UTC)

Reformat?
This article is well-organized, sorting characters by their appearances like List of Saw characters, but I think that there are too many minor characters for it to be sorted like this. I added Martha Meeks and Gus Gold earlier today, and re-added those that were removed, but they were edited out later. I will confess, I think I've been doing a little too much editing to this article, as if I'm the one that wrote it, so I'm not going to be changing anything else. However, I have another idea on how to have every character included. The article does not necessarily need to be sorted by film, rather by importance of the character. An example is Characters of Austin Powers; the list is organized in a different fashion, and has Austin Powers first, along with some of the other most important characters, and the more minor characters are towards the bottom. The list makes the most important points about them, and briefly summarizes what they did in the movies, while giving each character a mention. If the Scream character list was re-organized into this type of fashion, all of the most important characters can come first, and the minor characters can be towards the bottom. This will give every character a mention, and make the most important points about them as well, so descriptions do not have to be super wordy. Does anyone else think this would be a good idea? Thanks in advance Starwarsmaniac42 (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 01:25, 26 March 2011 (UTC).
 * Decent lists aren't organized that way because status like main and minor character is arbitrary and can change from film to film. I used to do it that way but people rightfully pointed out that it wasn't the best way to do it and the current way is probably the best way to achieve such a list.  That Austin Powers one for instance looks bad, most of the articles it links to have messages that they are not of a very good quality, I'd be surprised if it wasn't put up for deletion or heavily modified in the future.  Also, the List of Saw characters does not include every minor character in the series because there is no need for it.  There's no need for Officer Andrews and Officer whatever because they don't do anything, they're plot items and there is not enough in-universe or external information to warrant them being included on the list.  Remember, this isn't a wikia where there can be an article on a character no matter how minor or inconsequential.  If the most you can say about a character is that they weren't killed then they probably shouldn't be on this or any list.Darkwarriorblake (talk) 01:46, 26 March 2011 (UTC)

Maureen Prescott
Should Maureen Prescott be listed under Scream? She plays a role but she isn't actually in it and so saying she appeared in it doesn't seem to make sense. Darkwarriorblake (talk) 12:42, 12 April 2011 (UTC)

I would say she should be included due to her pictures being in the film and her actions having been the motive for some of the events. Blackfyr (talk) 08:54, 24 April 2011 (UTC)

Suggestion
I am not adding anything else to this article, but I have a suggestion. People have asked why some characters were removed from this list, and they were responded to with saying that such characters are too minor and are not worth mentioning. However, would it be a good idea to have an entirely separate section for minor characters? Say, at the bottom of the list, a section titled "Minor Characters" and then list them, while identifying when they appear? Or perhaps instead, at the bottom of each section for an individual movie, a subsection for minor characters? Just a suggestion. Also, with the new movie coming out, a section for minor characters might be a good thing Starwarsmaniac42 (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 20:25, 12 April 2011 (UTC).

On Jill Roberts
I give fair warning on a spoiler. So don't complain when I do.

I edited her section and removed the "insanity" line as she is obviously very in control of her actions as everything was thought out and pre-planned. That, obviously, is very sane. -benmoody0220 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.174.2.165 (talk) 07:32, 16 April 2011 (UTC)

Constructive criticism
Whoever put the name of the killer in this page; FUCK YOU.

Mark pages with spoilers or don't publish them!!

I was halfway through the movie and wanted to know who played Sidney's cousin, and as I couldn't remember the character's name so I googled, got here and now there's no point in watching the rest of the movie as some little dickwad ruined the whole thing. Again, fuck you sir, fuck you very much.
 * I don't know what you read but if you just wanted to know who played her it's quite easy. It says the character name and then the actress name.  You didn't have to read any plot to find that out. Darkwarriorblake (talk) 23:09, 11 August 2011 (UTC)
 * I ctrl+f'ed for the word cousin and ended up with the identity of the killer. No where does it state that such spoilers are included in this article so I did not expect to find them in an article titled "List of Scream characters". What I expected to find was just that; a list of Scream characters. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.226.179.153 (talk) 20:04, 12 August 2011 (UTC)
 * See WP:SPOILER and WP:NDA. This is an encyclopedia, so we don't censor certain information. — Mike   Allen   01:07, 13 August 2011 (UTC)
 * This isn't about censorship, it's about not ruining works of art you dumb fuck.
 * Well that'll teach you not to look up information about a film before seeing it. Enjoy the movie. :-) — Mike   Allen   02:38, 14 August 2011 (UTC)
 * I can understand your problem, it was spoiled for me the day before the film came out and not even in an obvious article, someone specifically set out to just spoil it for people. But I also know not to check the article for something where the mystery is a big component when I'm only halfway through the film.  Why you couldn't wait until the end of the film or check IMDb I don't know but it isn't something to criticize wikipedia over.Darkwarriorblake (talk) 14:13, 14 August 2011 (UTC)
 * Theres is zero reason a "List Over Characters" should contain the identity of the killer as well as a description of the ending. That information was put there for one reason and one alone; to ruin the movie for people. All respectable websites use spoiler tags or avoid revealing the end of the movie altogether when there's no proper reason to even do so in the first place. @Darkwarriorblake I would've used IMDB had I been able to recall the name of the character. A website purposely ruining works of art to piss people off IS A PERFECT reason to criticize it. @Mike You're lucky your behind the internet or I would wipe that smirk off your face, you little prick. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.226.179.153 (talk) 16:06, 14 August 2011 (UTC)
 * Watch your language, or else you will be blocked. Thanks.-- ♫GoP♫ T C N 11:41, 27 October 2011 (UTC)

Arising during GOCE copy edit
At the end of section List of Scream characters we read:
 * Kennedy, however, had had no major roles prior to Scream, and the studio was eager to have a more prominent actor in the production alongside the other well-known stars such as Barrymore and Cox. The production were adamant that he was the best choice and successfully fought to keep him in.

and there's a problem here: who are "the studio" and "the production", and what is the distinction between them? These two usages are jargon: I don't understand them and neither will other people who aren't experts in commercial film making. Are there non-jargon terms meaning the same thing? Or if there aren't, please could someone explain the meaning here, and then I'll try during the copyedit to find words that non-experts will understand. Thanks. --Stfg (talk) 20:40, 15 September 2011 (UTC)
 * They mean the same thing, the studio is Dimension Films if that helps. Darkwarriorblake (talk) 20:47, 15 September 2011 (UTC)
 * Thanks. But then, how can the studio and the production be taking different views in the quotation above? (By the way, I'm tempted to replace "production" in this sense with "production team" everywhere. Does that seem reasonable to you?) --Stfg (talk) 22:06, 15 September 2011 (UTC)
 * Re-reading it I see the problem. I meant the studio to be the guys who greenlight it and provide the funding.  By production I meant the actual team, director, casting, producers, etc.  So y eah, production team probably makes more sense.  I'd completely missed this, it should read more like:
 * Kennedy, however, had had no major roles prior to Scream, and Dimension Films was eager to have a more prominent actor in the role alongside the other well-known stars such as Barrymore and Cox. The production team were adamant that he was the best choice and successfully fought to keep him in.

That works very well, thanks. I've used it with a couple of insertions, to introduce Dimension and to emphasise the contrast between the company and the team itself. --Stfg (talk) 10:09, 16 September 2011 (UTC)

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Move
Shouldn't this be moved to be clear that it's only for the film series charactsers?★Trekker (talk) 13:15, 11 March 2019 (UTC)
 * Objections?★Trekker (talk) 23:24, 20 April 2019 (UTC)
 * I'll go ahead then.★Trekker (talk) 01:56, 26 April 2019 (UTC)