Talk:List of The Legend of Vox Machina characters

Scope
@IronMaximus this edit introduces a problem – Trinket is played by a Cheech Marin in a guest star role in season 2. The table as was reflected the intended scope of the article, which was "cast members". The scope changed when the title was renamed to "characters" between the move from draft to main space. I can see 2 options: etc.
 * 1) change the article title to "cast" as originally intended and revert the table (would probably have to revert  move, if not getting a SysOp to do it). An absolute faff, but solves the "problem" of Matt having a main cast credit but playing recurring and background roles.
 * 2) further condense the table to perhaps look a little like this, which gives us scope for future seasons:

Thoughts? (I don't actually think either is ideal, but am leaning more towards 2.) Little pob (talk) 11:56, 23 January 2023 (UTC) Little pob (talk) 11:56, 23 January 2023 (UTC)


 * The problem is obviously that some of the main actors also voice side characters with especially Mercer being a problem since none of his characters can really be classified as main characters. Maybe we could just get rid of the colours and do a cast table similiar to List of Star Wars: The Clone Wars cast members. One section for the main characters (not actors), so the Seven Vox Machina members, and then everyone else goes into a supporting character section, regardless of how many episodes they appear in or if the voice actor is credited as main or as a guest. It could look something like this:

(I only included a few characters as examples) IronMaximus (talk) 12:36, 23 January 2023 (UTC)


 * I'm always a fan of precedent; but will wait for more voices, as there might be MOS:TV arguments to consider. Little pob (talk) 13:33, 23 January 2023 (UTC)
 * Just want to flag a few concerns:


 * Mercer is listed in the credits as Trinket in S2E2 & S2E3 (no one is listed as Trinket in S2E1). What's the source that Cheech Marin is taking over the role?
 * I used Behind the Voices to determine recurring vs guest and the recent edit has changed a few recurring actors to guest. Per MOS:TVCAST: A cast member or character appearing in more than one episode, or in two or more consecutive episodes, does not necessarily mean that character has a "recurring" role. An actor or character may simply have a guest role across several episodes, rather than a recurring story arc throughout the show. If reliable sources cannot adequately distinguish between recurring or guest roles, then local consensus should determine their status. I think we should revert back to the source rather than us determining who is recurring/guest, however, Behind the Voices hasn't been updated for season 2 yet.
 * Iron said above: Mercer being a problem since none of his characters can really be classified as main characters - I divided it between main actors and recurring/guest actors since the show's credits determine who is a main actor and who isn't. My preference between the two example tables above is the first one since that continues to highlight who is main vs recurring/guest per credits.
 * On the article title, created the article from scratch (thus a different article title from Little pob's original draft) and then I went through the undeletion process to grab the table from Little pob's draft & have edit history merged to the right place. I don't have a strong preference here. Sariel Xilo (talk) 16:49, 23 January 2023 (UTC)
 * The problem I had with the previous version was that it was a little inconsistent. Tony Hale and Logic both appeared in 2 episodes, but one was listed as recurring and the other as guest. There has to be some consistency. IMO I think we should just ignore a possible recurring/guest distinction and put everyone into a supporting character section.
 * I just had the following idea: First a main cast section that is split into main characters (the seven Vox Machina members) and supporting characters (all other characters voiced by these eight actors). Second a guest cast section for everyone else. If a character like Trinket was voiced by both a main and a guest actor, then we can use the colours. Mercer is marked as green, Marin as blue. It could look like this:
 * Main cast
 * {| class="wikitable plainrowheaders" style="text-align:center;"

! rowspan="2" scope="col" |Character ! colspan="2" |Appearances ! style="width:15%;" |Season 1 ! style="width:15%;" |Season 2 ! colspan="3" style="background:#ccf;" |Main characters !Vex'ahlia "Vex" Vessar !Percival "Percy" Fredrickstein Von Musel Klossowski de Rolo III ! colspan="3" style="background:#ccf;" |Supporting characters !Lord Sylas Briarwood !Trinket
 * colspan="2" Laura Bailey
 * colspan="2" Taliesin Jaffe
 * Matthew Mercer
 * Matthew Mercer
 * Cheech Marin
 * }
 * Guest cast
 * {| class="wikitable plainrowheaders" style="text-align:center;"

! rowspan="2" scope="col" |Character ! colspan="2" |Appearances ! style="width:15%;" |Season 1 ! style="width:15%;" |Season 2 ! colspan="3" style="background:#ccf;" |Introduced in Season One !Lady Allura Vysoren !Sir Fince !Archibald Desnay ! colspan="3" style="background:#ccf;" |Introduced in Season Two !Thordak
 * colspan="2" Indira Varma
 * Tony Hale
 * Dominic Monaghan
 * Lance Reddick
 * }
 * We could also add to that just a short explanation that some of the main actors voiced characters that only appeared in one or two episodes, so the reader understands the table. That way Mercer would correctly be listed with the main cast, but we'd still have a clear distinction for main vs supporting characters.
 * IronMaximus (talk) 08:38, 24 January 2023 (UTC)
 * WRT Cheech Marin: I've noticed there are plenty of sources saying he is guest starring this season, but only a couple stating he is playing. So here's a recent one from CBR: The Legend of Vox Machina Hides a Battle Chasers Easter Egg in Plain Sight (cbr.com) Something I've realised since yesterday; this is the era in the live play game where Keyleth got speak with animals, which may explain why Trinket is played by two people this season—Cheech during the spell, Matt at all other times. Obviously sources are needed on that; but we can list two people for the role if both Mercer and Marin are credited for the season for Trinket. Do we even need the table, given it essentially duplicates the info in the list that follows it? Little pob (talk) 10:16, 24 January 2023 (UTC)
 * I like this table suggestion. On recurring vs guest consistency, I still don't think that's up to us to decide because that comes down to how the show wants to give out credit. If I had to assume why 2 actors with the same episode number were listed differently, it's probably down to the number of voiced lines (ie. guest being more of a cameo). We could probably remove both "Palace Guard" & "Tavern Keeper" from the table for not being named characters. Maybe include a prose section on cameos if needed?
 * Do we even need the table - I think ideally each name is formatted with internal anchors so you can use the table as navigation.
 * On Cheech, IMBD has him down for a Feywild episode so I bet that's why they switch actors (I'm assuming Trinket gets dialogue). If we're splitting it into two tables, then when Cheech is added for Trinket in the "Guest cast" table, we can add a footnote with an explanation for why Trinket is listed twice. Sariel Xilo (talk) 15:50, 24 January 2023 (UTC)
 * I think ideally each name is formatted with internal anchors so you can use the table as navigation. That can be done with internal links built into glossary markup. If you're not familiar, check User:Little_pob/List_of_Critical_Role_characters for an example started shortly before my wikibreak (and still very much in need of work). Whilst glossary markup is less intuitive to use; it does avoid long tables of content from overuse of sub-sections, and prevents having to ignore MOS:BOLD (see current "other characters" section). I do want to point out WP:WHENTABLE, however, which wants us to link to specific articles; not internal sections/anchors. No issues with applying WP:IAR, but we should have the discussion for the purpose of consensus. (I'm actually neutral on the use of a table here – just trying to play devil's advocate given the guideline.) Little pob (talk) 13:45, 25 January 2023 (UTC)
 * I've looked at a few cast/character tables recently; even when article scope is character, the tables list by actor. Therefore, I'm proposing this change.
 * {| class="wikitable plainrowheaders" style="text-align:center;"
 * I think ideally each name is formatted with internal anchors so you can use the table as navigation. That can be done with internal links built into glossary markup. If you're not familiar, check User:Little_pob/List_of_Critical_Role_characters for an example started shortly before my wikibreak (and still very much in need of work). Whilst glossary markup is less intuitive to use; it does avoid long tables of content from overuse of sub-sections, and prevents having to ignore MOS:BOLD (see current "other characters" section). I do want to point out WP:WHENTABLE, however, which wants us to link to specific articles; not internal sections/anchors. No issues with applying WP:IAR, but we should have the discussion for the purpose of consensus. (I'm actually neutral on the use of a table here – just trying to play devil's advocate given the guideline.) Little pob (talk) 13:45, 25 January 2023 (UTC)
 * I've looked at a few cast/character tables recently; even when article scope is character, the tables list by actor. Therefore, I'm proposing this change.
 * {| class="wikitable plainrowheaders" style="text-align:center;"

! scope="col" rowspan="2" style="width:30%;" | Actor ! scope="col" rowspan="2" style="width:30%;" | Character ! colspan="2" | Season ! style="width:15%;" | Season 1 ! style="width:15%;" | Season 2 ! colspan="5" style="background:#ccf;"| Main cast ! Laura Bailey ! Taliesin Jaffe ! Ashley Johnson ! Matthew Mercer
 * Vex'ahlia "Vex" Vessar
 * colspan="2" Cmain
 * Percival "Percy" Fredrickstein Von Musel Klossowski de Rolo III
 * colspan="2" Cmain
 * Pike Trickfoot
 * colspan="2" Cmain
 * Trinket
 * colspan="2" Cmain
 * }
 * Of note, MOS:TVCAST suggests removing guest stars from cast tables once a show hits three seasons. Some shows follow this guideline, others don't. Little pob (talk) 15:49, 4 December 2023 (UTC) Little pob (talk) 15:49, 4 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Of note, MOS:TVCAST suggests removing guest stars from cast tables once a show hits three seasons. Some shows follow this guideline, others don't. Little pob (talk) 15:49, 4 December 2023 (UTC) Little pob (talk) 15:49, 4 December 2023 (UTC)

Fantasy world names and AWB
Noting for posterity and to bring other editors' attention; WP:AWB will "correct" Fince → Finance when it is asked to fix typos. As such Fince is now wrapped in the proper name template, which will hopefully indicate to AWB that it's the intentional spelling. If AWB causes problems with another made up word from Matt or the team please use Not a typo or one of its substitution templates to have it skipped. Little pob (talk) 19:03, 7 May 2023 (UTC)

The Chroma Conclave nicknames
The source I've used for the nicknames that were added to the Chroma Conclave is the blog of Sideshow Collectibles – the collectable company. I've boldly used it as RS and V don't really discuss how to treat company blogs in these instances. However, as Sideshow have a merchandise agreement with CRP, it would be great if anyone found a source that could replace it, which doesn't amalgamate C1's events with those of TLOVM. Little pob (talk) 12:07, 25 August 2023 (UTC)