Talk:List of The Muppet Show episodes/Archive 1

Order of episodes
I think the list is not ordered properly. For someone who got the time to reorganize the list, there are about four possible sources for the list: Of course, some the lists do not fully match... — Preceding unsigned comment added by 132.68.43.74 (talk) 20:06, 16 March 2006 (UTC)
 * 1) TV.COM -- missing some airing dates, and (probably) out-of-order.
 * 2) Kermitage -- (probably) the true order of the series.
 * 3) Muppet Central -- All the airing dates for the first two seasons.

Missing episode
The episode with Judy Collins is not listed. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.56.139.182 (talk) 08:00, 21 April 2006 (UTC)
 * It is now. - dcljr (talk) 10:14, 5 March 2019 (UTC)

The Muppet Show episodes
i'm tryin' to put everything in order.. if there is some errors feel free to write me 7.23 — Preceding comment added by 7.23 (talk) 10:39, 5 June 2006 (UTC)

Whatever happened to the Spike Milligan episode?
Whilst I think it doesn't air anymore, are there no places where the episode with Spike Milligan guest starring is available, or information related to it?

AdZ 19:53, 17 April 2007 (UTC)


 * This question is now relatively easy to answer by searching online. - dcljr (talk) 10:14, 5 March 2019 (UTC)

Life-Size Puppets
Wasn't there Moomenshantz or something with crazy-big puppets? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 216.195.221.106 (talk) 19:37, 2 November 2007 (UTC)

It is spelled Mummenschanz. And No, they were mimes that used costumes.Herogamer (talk) 16:06, 29 July 2009 (UTC)

Article is a mess
I'm sorry, but this article is in a mess. Ignoring the spelling errors, the person who has set it out like this is trying to write an episode guide. They're obviously using the DVD releases as their model, but that's hopeless since the Season One DVD is missing some scenes owing to music rights. I think this article should revert back to how it used to be - a *list* of the episodes and only a list.David French (talk) 11:52, 22 February 2008 (UTC)

episode number format
I'm changing the episode numbers a little. I couldn't find a reference for actual production numbers, so I'm not sure where the current ones came from. If the 1.x format is used, it seems to me that x should restart at 01 for every new season. e.g. for the first episode of season 2 to be 2.25 makes no sense. It makes episodes past 100 problematic, too. If there was a good reason to have the number after the '.' be the overall count instead of just for that season, please discuss it here (I couldn't find any). I'm leaving the overall episode number there, just in parentheses after the 1.xx-style number. --Fru1tbat (talk) 17:28, 12 December 2008 (UTC)

Table Formatting - Initial Airing Box
I can get the information on the initial airing of various episodes. For instance, episode 1.06 guest starring Jim Nabors initially aired September 27, 1976 in New York, and October 2, 1976 in L.A. However, no matter how much experimenting I do in the Sandbox, I can't fill in the initial airing box. Any clues as to how it's done, based upon how said table has actually been formatted, and not just by assumed instructions? Christopher, Salem, OR (talk) 11:10, 15 October 2009 (UTC)
 * I have it working. The problem is the order of the table entries, and the fact that one of the title fields appears to be mandatory and must occur before the OriginalAirDate field.  See the following sample below.


 * {| class="wikitable plainrowheaders"

! width="80"|# !! Guest Star !! Initial Airing


 * }


 * Also note that the short summary can be formatted using  tags, and if the summary text is entered all on one line in the source we don't get the extra line break between the last and second-last lines.  If I get the chance I'll try and correct the page tables.Vulcan&#39;s Forge (talk) 23:21, 16 November 2009 (UTC)


 * I have just changed the formatting of the ShortSummary entries to use unordered lists. This also fixes the extra-space problem alluded to above without forcing everything to be on a single line. - dcljr (talk) 10:14, 5 March 2019 (UTC)

Sex and Violence
Should the special 'An End to Sex and Violence on Television' be listed here? Grassynoel (talk) 08:02, 8 December 2010 (UTC)
 * It is listed now in the Pilots table. - dcljr (talk) 10:14, 5 March 2019 (UTC)

Season 6
This article references a season 6, I can't find any other signs of this online. The idea excites me a lot - can someone put a reference in? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Spicegw 001 (talk • contribs) 00:26, 23 January 2012 (UTC)
 * Season 6 is no longer listed in the article. - dcljr (talk) 10:14, 5 March 2019 (UTC)

Season 6?
Should it be removed? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.126.183.58 (talk) 06:02, 24 January 2012 (UTC)
 * It has been removed. - dcljr (talk) 10:14, 5 March 2019 (UTC)

Episode Order
I really think that the episode order should be changed to the commonly-found production order. As the show was syndicated, the order in which the episodes were shown varied. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Comedy3 (talk • contribs) 01:28, 5 March 2013 (UTC)
 * Right now, the order is by the first date the episodes were ever broadcasted. What order they are presented in will allways be a matter of debate, and your preference is just one of several. I think you will have to come up with a stronger case then just "I really think" because we can't change the order every time someone comes up with a different idea. So try to convince other users why your idea is really the best. Wikiklaas (talk) 06:31, 6 March 2013 (UTC)
 * Well that's not right, as the series was *first* broadcast in the UK by ITV's Midlands franchise ATV (Associated TeleVision) which produced the series. This list reflects the original US East Coast airings.David French (talk) 03:30, 21 May 2013 (UTC)
 * Some of the 1979 episodes can't be right, as ITV was off air August-October that year? 80.0.154.37 (talk) 01:56, 18 November 2013 (UTC)

I agree with Comedy3 and David French (presumably) that the current order, especially for the first few seasons/series, is not ideal. The airdates (and thus the "overall" episode numbers) seem to be based on the first broadcast of each episode in the US (possibly just the first broadcast in a particular city in the US), but, as already pointed out, the episodes were first aired in the UK. I don't know of any "reliable source" for the UK broadcast order, so I propose presenting the episodes in the first 3 series tables in the order they appear on the DVD releases (Buena Vista, 2005–08), since those not only have the imprimatur of an official release, but also seem to be mostly in production order (with a handful of exceptions). This will, of course, affect both the "overall" numbers and the "in-season" numbers (e.g., "1.05") — although that shouldn't be much of an issue, seeing as how the latter numbers in the Series 1 table (at least) don't match either the order implied by the airdates (which have been marked "citation needed" for years now) nor that implied by the production codes (the source of which I do not know) — so it's not at all obvious what they are actually based on. As for the order to be used in the rest of the series, I can't say; I guess just leave those alone, for now. - dcljr (talk) 04:08, 5 March 2019 (UTC)
 * I *think* I can find a reliable source for the UK airdates, though I'll have to do some asking around. There is a book that lists the airdates for television programs that have aired in the UK; I'll have to check see whether it's publicly available.  I have a funny feeling it is. David French (talk) 21:24, 6 March 2019 (UTC)
 * any update on this? - dcljr (talk) 02:27, 29 March 2019 (UTC)
 * I did ask around but never received a response. I'm going to try again. David French (talk) 06:48, 31 March 2019 (UTC)

The whole list is a mess, Especial series 4, with claims episodes being broadcast or even being made during the ITV Strike. Duduly moore on the main page claims to be 20th OCT YET this epsoide never went out until the first day after the stirke on 24th Oct.  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AeROdRz8wxs&t=2s&ab_channel=ukclassictelly  Its well documentent --Crazyseiko (talk) 08:54, 11 August 2019 (UTC)


 * Also the first series is CLEARLY WRONG as well it's in the TV listing in the national newspapers.. 5th September 1976.. The times, the Guardian.  Here is a free ref to it https://news.google.com/newspapers?id=3ik-AAAAIBAJ&sjid=zUoMAAAAIBAJ&pg=6117%2C741194  How has this been allowed to promote misleading, inaccurate erroneous details...
 * — Preceding unsigned comment added by Crazyseiko (talk • contribs) 09:08, 11 August 2019 (UTC)
 * "How" is no mystery: we lacked good sources. If you can document other first-airings with sources, please do. (I do notice, however, that your Google link unfortunately does not list which episode was airing, which is a problem. Does the Observer say it was the Rita Moreno episode?) As for the 4th-series Dudley Moore episode, if it or any others were first aired outside of the UK due to a strike (which seems to be the implication if both the older and newer dates are correct but for different countries), then should we not use the earlier, non-UK dates for those episodes—assuming it can be documented with a good source? While I agree that the "whole list is a mess" with respect to the reliability of the dates and production numbers, as the other discussion on this talk page can attest, it is not easy (or "hasn't been easy", anyway) to find reliable sources for this information. If you can do so, like I said before, please do. - dcljr (talk) 00:47, 12 August 2019 (UTC)
 * I shall go and ask a few people with TV times aswell!! I would be very surprised if any episodes managed to get out of ITV or Lew grade ITC while this strike was on. --Crazyseiko (talk) 07:57, 12 August 2019 (UTC)
 * I'm still asking people HOWEVER I have found out which ep went out first with a proper online link so you can see it. https://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=GGgVawPscysC&dat=19760904&printsec=frontpage&hl=en ALSO ALL Sunday dates are one day forward when published in Saturday listings.. that means all the current dates are wrong, because the dates listed are Saturday and the muppets never switched to Saturday until xmas 76 when it ratings soared to 14 million. Ive had  to take them out until we can add in more refs which will be happening over the next few weeks --Crazyseiko (talk) 09:48, 12 August 2019 (UTC)


 * Series One dates are now in much better position and the date are ALL Correct, I will added in the full refs shortly, i just need to get the proper TV times info. However this is where it gets a tag confusing. The last three episodes where only screen in the LONDON - LWT and East Anglia area, ( it should be noted there did not follow the network patten from the start)  the remaining 3 episode appeared in most other regions months later as part of a repeat run. It should be noted london and anglia did in fact extend its repeat run to end of july.  	Lena Horne in LWT was broadcast in march 77, etc when means there were in fact months behind the network on certain episodes, yet months ahead on others.
 * Outside the South east:
 * Best of episode -
 * Connie 16th April - NEW
 * Vincent price 23th April - NEW
 * Charles Aznavour 30th April 1977
 * Sandy Duncan	7 May 1977
 * Phyllis Diller 14 May 1977
 * Paul Williams	21 May 1977
 * Ethel Merman 28th May 1977 - NEW
 * Joel Grey 4th June 1977
 * Florence Henderson 11th June 1977
 * Ruth Buzzi 18th June 1977
 * Bruce Forsyth 25th June 1977
 * Twiggy 2nd July 1977
 * — Preceding unsigned comment added by Crazyseiko (talk • contribs) 12 August 2019 (UTC)

Color changes
The colors being used in the table header rows were way too dark for the black text to be read comfortably on, well, almost any screen, I'm guessing. (Turns out the code that was trying to force the header text to be white was simply misspelled, so it wasn't working. Oh, well.) Plus, the same colors were being used for Series 2 and 3. Since Manual of Style/Television only discourages arbitrary changing of colors when they already conform to accessibility standards (which they didn't), and suggests that the color scheme can be chosen based on "DVD or promotional artwork", I decided to unilaterally change the colors to a scheme that roughly corresponds to the dominant/unique color seen on the DVD cover for each series: (S1) Kermit = green, (S2) Miss Piggy = peachish , (S3) Fozzie = brownish , (S4) not released yet, but apparently will be Gonzo = purplish , (S5) not released yet, but apparently will be Animal = reddish. For the pilots I kept the original grayish color choice but lightened it quite a bit. Opinions for other possible color schemes are welcome, of course. Just discuss it here. (At the same time I converted the tables to use Episode table instead of grow-your-own table headings.) - dcljr (talk) 10:36, 2 March 2019 (UTC)

Series 5 order
It have to ask should we do a dallas an included US AND UK air dates? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Crazyseiko (talk • contribs) 10:07, 30 May 2020 (UTC)