Talk:List of The West Wing characters/Archive 1

regarding my recent edit
I'm not much for cutting content. If anyone sees value in th stuff I deleted, I'd be interested to hear it. I think I hav an idea of what this content was getting at, but overall I found it to be weak. Kzz Rzz  Knocker  02:40, 11 April 2006 (UTC)


 * While the info was "true", in a sense, I also agree that it was a bit extraneous to our purposes here, and is probably better explained in a more general television series article. -Jc37 00:39, 12 April 2006 (UTC)

so you'r sayin we're talkin about "alternate TV realities" here. Ka- zizzl Mc 05:25, 25 April 2006 (UTC)

Toby's Wife
Why isn't Toby's ex-wife, I think her name in Andrea, on here?
 * She's on the List of politicians on The West Wing page. Her name is Andrea "Andie" Wyatt and she's listed under "House of Representatives."--Hnsampat 12:53, 11 April 2006 (UTC)

D Wire Newman is gone
Someone felt that the entry for D. Wire Newman was too trivial and put a re-direct to the episode in which he appears. You can see the original article, |here. Right and proper the article should go? Or pointless pruning of a harmless article?

cheers, Neale Neale Monks 11:37, 16 November 2006 (UTC)

John Goodman
I don't see John Goodman's character House Speaker Glen Allen Walken listed here. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.165.61.203 (talk • contribs)


 * Please see: List of politicians on The West Wing. - jc37 12:03, 8 June 2007 (UTC)

Santos/Vinick
has anyone noticed santos and vinick are missing? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 124.183.151.31 (talk) 16:15, 13 June 2008 (UTC)

Matt Santos and Arnold Vinick are conspicuously missing from this list, especially since Helen Santos is present. --Pollard666 07:16, 18 June 2007 (UTC)


 * Please see: List of politicians on The West Wing. --Fred Bradstadt 08:20, 18 June 2007 (UTC)

Vice Presidents?
I notice there's no mention of the vice presidents' characters. unfortunate because I came here trying to remember the first one's name / the actor's name. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.171.179.181 (talk) 07:15, 26 August 2008 (UTC)
 * They're mentioned on the List of politicians on The West Wing page. --Hnsampat (talk) 16:27, 26 August 2008 (UTC)

Comments and Questions
You do realize that the major character already have lengthy articles on them, right? This needs to define its purpose better. Stan 16:52, 16 Nov 2004 (UTC)

- If you read the Vfd on Charlie Young, you'd see we were discussing the need to redirect and merge the character articles into one page. --ExplorerCDT 17:15, 16 Nov 2004 (UTC)


 * No, I don't look at VfD, just patrol new pages. Merged into one article, that is going to be a real monster! I can see a single page for minor chars though. Stan 19:20, 16 Nov 2004 (UTC)
 * It can (and will) be done in such a way that doesn't require every little detail about what the character wore in episode #3, and be kept into a respectable, reasonable size. --ExplorerCDT 19:24, 16 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Actors
this page could really use the names of the actors for each role. Kingturtle 01:48, 14 Dec 2004 (UTC)

Comparison with reality
I think it might be interesting to have a chart comparing the positions of the fictional characters and the real-life figures who hold those same positions (Press Secretary, Chief of Staff, etc.). -205.153.156.226 02:57, 20 May 2005 (UTC)

nevermind.
I said it in the summ. Likwid Swzzl 21:54, 4 November 2005 (UTC)

Jack Reese
Reese is repeatedly referred to as Deputy National Security Advisor on wikipedia. I'm pretty sure this is incorrect; he was watch commander for the situation room and in no way connected to Nancy McNally's office. Doctofunk 18:50, 13 January 2006 (UTC)

I watched the "Jack Reese" episodes just last week and several times they said he reported to Nancy McNally.--Robertjm (talk) 17:02, 14 January 2010 (UTC)

He is the "Late Night Watch Commander for the Situation" which in the West Wing, makes him a a member of the millitary branch assigned his post under the directive of the National Security Adviser (Nancy Mcnally) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.250.145.90 (talk) 19:31, 8 April 2010 (UTC)

Re-vamp
Could this perhaps be done in a table of some sorts, or a more organized fashion? This is my first time looking at this and i couldnt even scroll down the page before i had to make this point. its very difficult to read and it would be easier if it was in a table or whatever it would take to make it easier to read.--J miester25 (talk) 17:03, 17 March 2009 (UTC)
 * It would also be easier to read if the list would adhere to the standard used by the rest of the world — with actors' names in parentheses following characters' names — instead of the ungodly proliferation of hyphens and em dashes now polluting the page. 71.200.134.47 (talk) 01:07, 24 August 2010 (UTC)

Criteria for inclusion
We need to come up with some kind of objective criteria for inclusion of characters on this page. Obviously ever single guest star to ever appear on any episode of this 7-season show is not notable enough to be on this page. Should we restrict this only to recurring characters? If we do that, then some one-time appearances by family members (such as C.J.'s father) will get excluded. Should we restrict it only to characters who have been mentioned in more than one episode? If we do that, then we might end up including characters who never actually appear on-screen. Whatever we decide here, I think that we should then apply the same criteria to this article's sister page, the List of politicians in The West Wing article. --Hnsampat (talk) 13:08, 22 October 2009 (UTC)
 * Mentioned more than once (even if the "more than once" is in a single episode). A throw-away line about senator so-n-so should not rate being added to either page. (Especially, as has been noted, the writers aren't always consistent.)
 * This allows family and such to be added, and may also add a motivation for adding notations for first appearances. - jc37 23:07, 17 November 2010 (UTC)


 * Should we include Secretary of State Miles Hutchinson? He is seen and mentioned in season four, episode fourteen. The appearance is regarding a "force-depletion report" for the deployment of peacekeepers to Equatorial Kundu to cease the genocide.
 * Context: Hutchinson did not believe Reece should have let Bartlet read the report, while McGarry and Bartlet completely disagree.


 * SilvestertheCat (talk) 01:15, 20 January 2012 (UTC)


 * Is there a reason why Amy Gardner is not mentioned (although her Bassett Hound does get a mention)? There is a separate page dedicated to the character already - just need a link to it. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.99.37.152 (talk) 15:48, 6 May 2012 (UTC)
 * She is mentioned. Look at the bottom of the "White House staff" section. --Kbir1 (talk) 03:49, 7 May 2012 (UTC)

Merge character pages
There seem to be countless unnotable character pages on Wikipedia for very small characters, some only appearing briefly or in one episode. I have nominated several to be merged into this article. There is only in-universe information for most of these articles, and no references for most of them either. They simply reiterate the plot of the episode they were in. Granted I haven't seen the entire show so I may have nominated some that shouldn't have been, but reading their articles most appear to just be a fictional in-universe stub, some only a paragraph (one a sentence) long.

Most of the in-universe information should be dismissed and not merged in whole to this article, as it still will be slapped with an in-universe tag and need cleanup to remove the in-universe information. Ejfetters (talk) 23:00, 2 August 2009 (UTC)

I'm against merging the pages of those who were either main characters (in the opening credits) or appeared frequently across multiple seasons. So, I think that most should be deleted, but, at the least, Danny Concannon, Percy Fitzwallace, Bruno Gianelli, Mandy Hampton, Kate Harper, Margaret Hooper, Mrs. Landingham, Joey Lucas, Nancy McNally, and Annabeth Schott should remain. --166.82.223.192 (talk) 05:08, 10 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Can you provide real-world notability for these other characters you have listed? The articles have no real-world notability and are just in-universe, original research information.  I don't see how to keep these articles without real-world notability. Ejfetters (talk) 07:09, 11 August 2009 (UTC)

none of those characters proposed for merger have any notability on their own. i'm for the merger.--camr nag 23:16, 16 August 2009 (UTC)

My feelings are that if they were a major recurring character or a contract character they deserve their own page... I feel Mandy, Amy, Annabeth and Mrs. Landingham deserve their own pages as well as Margaret, Kate, Bruno, Percy and Danny. I mean come on lets not be stingy. There is plenty of room. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.50.147.108 (talk) 03:17, 3 February 2010 (UTC)

I say merge Nevermore  | Talk 09:18, 12 March 2010 (UTC)

If we merge all those characters, we will create a huge and chaotic article. So I say that the articles shouldn't be merged. Mijnnaamgaatunietaan (talk) 13:17, 13 November 2010 (UTC)

Mandy Hampton has real-world notability as the origin of the Mandyville concept - for this reason that page should remain.86.183.190.103 (talk) 01:55, 17 November 2010 (UTC)


 * What is this concept? Can you please provide a reliable source for it? --Hnsampat (talk) 22:11, 17 November 2010 (UTC)

I think the term premiered on TWoP. And has become an internet meme (at least).

here's a google search. - jc37 23:07, 17 November 2010 (UTC)

It is difficult to talk about the notability of all these characters en masse, due to the shear number, and the fact that so much press coverage has been devoted to West Wing that you can almost certainly dig up articles highlighting any significant character. What is clear is that an article describing all characters from all seven seasons in more than cursory detail will become an unwieldy mess. Which means that any information about a character's relation to the development or plot of the show, or the actor's relation to the character... must be in a separate article if at all.

I think this should be viewed from the perspective of Wikipedia's value as a reference work. For someone wanting to understand a character in the context of The West Wing, is it sufficient to point them to a sentence describing that character and the episode they appear in? For any one-off character that does not play a central role in an episode, yes.

But if a character is involved in multiple episodes in a meaningful way, it is a disservice to the reader if they have to hunt through 20 episode summaries trying to piece together information about the character. Or, if a character is so prominent in an episode that they threaten to overshadow the episode summary, or their impact on the show goes beyond that episode, such that they might be linked to from other episode and character pages... then there is a strong case for having their own article.

I realize there is a ever-present concern of Wikipedia becoming a repository of fictional canon minutiae and I have suggested in the past that more should be done to direct people to more appropriate references for fictional universes where those exist. (Star Trek, Star Wars, and The West Wing being only some of many examples where devoted fan communities maintain reference wikis.) But that doesn't get Wikipedia off the hook for providing a basic understanding of each significant character on their and not as part of a cursory list.

As such, I think a year of continued edits and several failed deletion attempts on many of these articles suggest there is a consensus to keep many if not all... if there are specific characters people still think should be removed, that should be run through discussions specific to those characters. --Marcinjeske (talk) 10:56, 27 December 2010 (UTC)

Articles_for_deletion/Mandy_Hampton illuminates a related attempt to delete many of these articles. Based on that an my thoughts above, looking at the specific articles and the types of links pointing there, and referencing IMDB, here is my bold editing attempt: I have removed merge templates from all no merge above. Somebody had to do it. --Marcinjeske (talk) 12:08, 27 December 2010 (UTC)
 * General Nicholas Alexander - no merge - appears in 7 episodes over 2 seasons, part of Template:Characters_on_The_West_Wing, useful background
 * Oliver Babish - strong no merge - appears 8 episodes, linked from 4 episode articles, plays major role in the Bartlet MS story arc
 * Eleanor Bartlet - strong no merge - appears in 9 episodes, linked from three episode articles, was a key plot driver in several episodes.
 * Elizabeth Bartlet - could merge - appears in 6 episodes and linked from 4 episode articles but with minor role
 * Zoey Bartlet - strong no merge - 25 episodes, central to major story arc, involvement with multiple central characters (Charlie Young)
 * Ronna Beckman - could merge - 22 episodes, but not central to episodes
 * Greg Brock (The West Wing) - no merge - 8 episodes and has central role in shuttle scandal
 * Don Butler - could merge - 3 episodes and off-hand references
 * Clifford Calley - no merge - 7 episodes and played prominent role in several
 * Danny Concannon strong no merge - 28 episodes and involvement with many plots.
 * Ed and Larry - no merge - 45 and 47 episodes, their nature need be explained
 * Percy Fitzwallace - no merge - 21 episodes, 5 episode links, and plays a significant role in episode
 * Bruno Gianelli - no merge - 18 episodes and heavy involvement in campaign plot
 * Stanley Keyworth - could merge - 4 episodes, but he is a bit of a stock character... knowing his history is not needed


 * Kudos on the work you've done and I'm glad that somebody finally decided to be bold. I don't, however, agree with your decision with regard to these specific articles. The NUMBER of episodes that a character appears in should not be the standard nor should, believe it or not, the importance of the character to the plot. For example, Abdul Shareef is mentioned in countless episodes and basically forms the basis for the plot of the end of the 3rd season and much of the 4th season. However, he is never developed as a character -- we just know that he's an evil foreign leader involved with terrorists who is assassinated under Bartlet's orders. As such, any article about him would offer nothing more than plot summary and so he should NOT have a separate article. The standard for having a separate article should be whether we can write more than plot summary. The current Mandy Hampton article offers a good example of a character article that offers more than plot summary. In the articles you listed above, I think that maybe Zoey Bartlet and Danny Concannon can be kept as separate articles, but I don't really see much justification for keeping the others as separate articles. --Hnsampat (talk) 15:41, 27 December 2010 (UTC)


 * Great work Marcinjeske. I do think three characters that could be merged, definitely should be; Don Butler, Stanely Keyworth and Ronna Beckman. I do however disagree on Nicholas Alexander. I believe he should be merged.
 * SilvestertheCat (talk) 01:34, 20 January 2012 (UTC)

Making a decision - after 2.5 years - I have taken the 'merge tag' off Kate Harper. It was the oldest notability tag in WP. --Greenmaven (talk) 06:39, 21 April 2012 (UTC)

There also still appears to be merge tags on Joey Lucas and Margaret Hooper, both dating back to July 2009 (three years old). Admittedly, I was not a regular viewer of this show, so I am not one to judge these characters' notability. If consensus could be reached regarding these merger requests, that would be excellent! WTF? (talk) 03:27, 12 July 2012 (UTC)

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