Talk:List of The X Factor finalists (British series 8)

Frankie
I notice that Frankie doesn't have much information. Surely there's a lot to be said? Also, he's been notable for two things for a few weeks now, I'm really surprised nobody's tried to create an article. I wouldn't have reverted it, I was expecting it! What's going on? :S – anemone projectors – 15:38, 27 January 2012 (UTC)

Frankie is referred to as a 'cu-nt'. Please correct. — Preceding unsigned comment added by ProjectWorldPeace (talk • contribs) 13:37, 18 February 2012 (UTC)

Misha B
Misha B clearly needs her own Wikipedia page, but for some reason it keeps getting deleted. Little Mix http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Little_Mix and Marcus Collins http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marcus_Collins_%28singer%29 both have a page, I see no reason why Misha should be denied one. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Zoeblackmore (talk • contribs) 00:36, 6 July 2012 (UTC)


 * I hear your plight. I have been in a two-week argument with several editors over the same issue.  They contend that until any of the X Factor contestants have met more than the first criteria of notability found at WP:BAND then they will be denied a page.  This is not according to Wikipedia guidelines, but it is what these editors are making happen for right now.  You can see a history of what has happened to the various Misha B pages here.  I came in as a reviewer a page ago, accepted it, then the editors I mentioned asked for its speedily deletion.  I have since brought it back from the dead twice, improved it, added to it, and now it resides here.  I asked for a consensus and got a paltry response on the talk page and even got slammed for canvasing in the process - oh, well.  But the little consensus I did get was that I should wait for the single to come out.  Assuming I have no resistance after that, I will update and submit the current page and then the whole thing will be history.  Except, afterwards I would like to continue to petition this talk page and possibly WP:BAND to see if we need to write up a note about contestant shows, because this sort of combative page deletion and arguments aren't just happening to X Factor contestants but to nearly all contestants from music contest shows.  And if the Wikipedia consensus is that they must meet at least two of the criteria of WP:BAND instead of one, then we should have it noted instead of leaving it to consensus every single time.  At least there should be a discussion about this and see what happens.  Thanks for your concern. -- NewzealanderA (talk) 01:13, 6 July 2012 (UTC)


 * Little Mix won the competition, so obtained a record deal, releasing their own single in December (and another one this month). Because they won the competition I think there is also a reasoning that they deserve their own Wikipedia article anyway. Marcus Collins also released his own single in March, which charted. Hence they both have met the notability criteria beyond their X-Factor appearances.
 * The same criteria has been applied to X-factor contestants since the start, as far as I know. Similarly with Pop Idol, Big Brother, Britain's Got Talent and all the other rash of reality TV programmes. The only exception is American Idol, I don't know why, probably because of the American bias on Wikipedia... but that's another story. Sionk (talk) 02:09, 6 July 2012 (UTC)


 * Has been the subject of multiple, non-trivial, published works appearing in sources that are reliable and are independent from the musician or ensemble itself. [YES]
 * Has received non-trivial coverage in independent reliable sources of an international concert tour, or a national concert tour in at least one sovereign country.[YES]
 * Has been placed in rotation nationally by a *major radio* or music television network [Home Run, BBC radio 1, BBC Radio 1 Extra, Many independent networks].[YES]
 * Unreleased material (including demos, mixtapes, bootlegs, promo-only recordings) is only notable if it has significant independent coverage in reliable sources. *[Both her F64 for SBTV and he mix tape Why Hello World received lots of reliable internet music press coverage]*[YES]
 * Has won or *placed* in a major music competition. [X factor is probably the best known music competition in the UK][YES]
 * Has been a featured subject of a substantial broadcast segment across a national radio or TV network. [X factor finals for 9 weeks] etc etc [YES]


 * Where does it say that *all the above* should be ignored until she official releases a single, a single's release is not notable in itself so how can it make an artist notable? The is enough evidence to warrant her own page now, nevermind in a weeks time.Zoeblackmore (talk) 18:43, 6 July 2012 (UTC)

edited. Zoeblackmore (talk) 21:00, 7 July 2012 (UTC)


 * She hasn't been 'ignored'. As a contestant in the X-Factor she has a substantial entry on Wikipedia at this article. She is notable as a contestant on X-factor. Sionk (talk) 21:33, 7 July 2012 (UTC)


 * X Factor was so so last year...some of the other contestants have faded away ...things have moved on and Misha B is making notable waves now :) on top of xfactor she qualifies in at least two other areas ....


 * Has been placed in rotation nationally by a *major radio* or music television network [Home Run, BBC radio 1, BBC Radio 1 Extra, Many independent networks].[YES]
 * Unreleased material (including demos, mixtapes, bootlegs, promo-only recordings) is only notable if it has significant independent coverage in reliable sources. *[Both her F64 for SBTV and he mix tape Why Hello World received lots of reliable internet music press coverage]*[YES]
 * Has been the subject of multiple, non-trivial, published works appearing in sources that are reliable and are independent from the musician or ensemble itself. (Lots of current music press stuff)[YES]


 * OK :) I admit I truly don't understand the logic why someone takes part in the televised finals of the most well known music competition in the UK, should have less of a chance of a Wikipedia page than any other artist? Especially when that artist qualifies on a number of other areas. Are people who enter such competitions less worthy than other artists? Zoeblackmore (talk) 23:38, 7 July 2012 (UTC)

If we were to post on the talk page of WP:BAND a suggested change to the current notability guidelines, would there be any opposition if we asked for Wikipedia to consider a statement something to the effect of "For artists who are part of competitions, they generally need to meet at least two of the criteria to be considered eligible to have their own article outside of the competition coverage." Not sure if 'coverage' is the right word. Or does a simple statement like this not capture all the variables, which would mean we would need to allow more room for consensus -- example ... "For artists who are part of competitions, they generally need to meet at least two of the criteria to be considered eligible to have their own article outside of the competition or Wikipedia user consensus."-- NewzealanderA (talk) 23:14, 7 July 2012 (UTC)


 * I agree that an official interpretation of the notability guidelines for Artist from competitions is required here.Zoeblackmore (talk) 23:38, 7 July 2012 (UTC)


 * I'm not sure there's a absolute rule-of-thumb, hence the different treatement of American Idol contestants, for example. WP:N also says "This is not a guarantee that a topic will necessarily be handled as a separate, stand-alone page. Editors may use their discretion to merge or group two or more related topics into a single article". With the example of X-factor, it's clear that for the last 8 series the contestants have been treated this way. That seems to show to me that there is enduring consensus on the issue.
 * The general question aboth whether X-factor contestants should automatically have their own article should probably be raised at WikiProject The X-Factor rather than here. Sionk (talk) 00:02, 8 July 2012 (UTC)

Misha B Citations
Apologies I am trying to apply Webreflinks - List of The X Factor finalists (UK series 8) to all the citations I added yesterday (before checking and improving them further, but my internet is currently too slow... I will try again tomorrow if that fails I will do it manually Zoeblackmore (talk) 18:43, 6 July 2012 (UTC)

Now Done Zoeblackmore (talk) 09:02, 7 July 2012 (UTC)


 * There still sem to be several which don't show in the References section. It seems to stem from this edit, affecting the references for the defence of Misha B against bullying claims. I've removed the rogue partial citation, but it doesn't seem to have solved the problem. Sionk (talk) 14:40, 8 July 2012 (UTC)


 * Possibly because I did that section after I repaired the early citations, and used a Wikipedia link tool in Firefox, maybe it was not up to scratch?146.90.32.27 (talk) 17:13, 8 July 2012 (UTC) this was zoe.Zoeblackmore


 * The reasoning behind the length of my version of the section is that Misha still gets a lot of online cyber abuse and bullying regarding this baseless accusation, I was hoping that it would be an unbiased resource based on full verification


 * Links to video content on YouTube or Google Video (or other, similar content aggregators) are allowed, provided the material linked to is not obviously infringing copyright, is relevant to the article, and is a primary source or a reliable and irreplaceable secondary source. This is the same policy as for any other external link. unless it infringes copyright, the links were merely links to official pages with no actual breach of copyright? Zoeblackmore (talk) 17:31, 8 July 2012 (UTC)


 * Yaye fixed the bottom of page issue Zoeblackmore (talk) 19:31, 11 July 2012 (UTC)

Misha B again
The entry for Misha B is growing completely out of proportion again. This article isn't a soapbox to redress an argument about bullying. There is no need for the lengthy quotes and, particularly, there is no need for lengthy quotes from Misha. The article should be briefly about what was reported about her, not what she said about herself. It should be pruned back to a succinct summary, in balance with the entries for the other contestants. Sionk (talk) 20:10, 11 July 2012 (UTC)
 * no new quotes have been added from Misha? However, if its ok to quote false accusations, then it should be ok to quote the truth. You may need to remove all references to the accusation to make it balanced. All the quotes from are either relevant to events on x factor or her releases. But the clear truth is the obvious needed is for Misha to have her own page.Zoeblackmore (talk) 23:08, 11 July 2012 (UTC)


 * Maybe remove the 3 paragraphs relating to the accusations, to either a separate section at the bottom of the page or a very simple neutral link to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_X_Factor_%28UK_series_8%29 where it is covered.Zoeblackmore (talk) 10:39, 12 July 2012 (UTC)

Misha B Work in Progress Seperate Page
Comment Deleted as page in progress elsewhere Zoeblackmore (talk) 17:32, 12 July 2012 (UTC)Zoeblackmore (talk) 23:06, 12 July 2012 (UTC)


 * There's also Wikipedia talk:Articles for creation/Misha B, just to complicate matters. Sionk (talk) 23:42, 12 July 2012 (UTC)


 * Left her message pointing to NewzealanderA's page ...I also pruned Misha B's section back a bitZoebuggie 16:39, 13 July 2012 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Zoeblackmore (talk • contribs)
 * The current candidate with a request for review at WP:AFC resides here
 * (but should that fails for any reason, I have been playing in my sandbox and put together a alternative backup version here) ... Zoebuggie☺  whispers  11:46, 20 July 2012 (UTC)


 * LOL and another Misha page is up on Wikipedia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Misha_Bryan  — Preceding unsigned comment added by Zoeblackmore (talk • contribs) 17:03, 20 July 2012 (UTC)

Misha B Section restored and pruned
The Misha B section had been put back to a untidy previous version by the same person who reverted the Misha Bryan page, but they had removed most of the xfactor stuff and left the post x factor stuff. I undid the strange improvements and then removed some of the post x factor story.... Zoebuggie☺ whispers  21:25, 20 July 2012 (UTC)

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