Talk:List of UEFA club competition winners

Untitled
Intercontinental Cup is a UEFA competition:

Competitions - Club - --Sporting1905 (talk) 14:00, 15 August 2009 (UTC)
 * UEFA Champions League
 * UEFA Europa League UEFA
 * Super Cup
 * UEFA Cup Winners' Cup
 * EUSA Cup


 * 50% UEFA club competition, 50% CONMEBOL club competition. FIFA recognize the tournament as world title but different than FIFA club World Cup...--190.41.162.74 (talk) 17:52, 15 August 2009 (UTC)


 * Interesate tenerte por aqui Dante. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Sporting1905 (talk • contribs) 23:58, 18 August 2009 (UTC)

Toyota Cup should be excluded
The Toyota Cup, unlike the Intercontinental Cup, wasn't organised by UEFA or FIFA and therefore should be excluded. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 188.140.49.141 (talk) 21:24, 13 August 2014 (UTC)

Do you have any source for that? Toyota was supposedly only the sponsor, but the competition was still endorsed by the UEFA and Commebol- — Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.102.115.116 (talk) 14:56, 20 December 2015 (UTC)

FIFA Club World Cup
The FIFA Club World Cup shouldn't count as it is a FIFA competition. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.247.64.141 (talk) 03:27, 10 December 2014 (UTC)


 * It actually should, it is implemented in the list of CONMEBOL club competition winners so.. 78.0.216.1 (talk) 15:04, 25 December 2022 (UTC)
 * So what? You can't just point to another Wikipedia article as a reason for doing something the same way here. – PeeJay 20:54, 11 January 2023 (UTC)

Add all side winners of 2006-2008 or none
Why only amend Atletico's to add the 2007 IC?

They were a side winner, just like Napoli and Sampdoria, so why aren't their totals added on to?

So you close the editing part of this page without discussing? Just because of some Wikipedia power?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UEFA_Intertoto_Cup#2006.E2.80.932008

Add new columns for all these winners too then and add Napoli etc to show 1 more title or NONE at all.

You can't just have Atletico's added on to and leave out the likes of Reid and Tabol. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.175.72.55 (talk) 18:13, 1 March 2015‎ (UTC)


 * According art. 2.1 of the competition's regulations, the UEFA Intertoto Cup winner is the club with the best performance in UEFA Cup.--Dantetheperuvian (talk) 04:41, 9 March 2015 (UTC)

Atletico's Intertoto
Atletico Madrid has one Intertoto Cup. Check this http://es.uefa.com/teamsandplayers/teams/club=50124/profile/index.html — Preceding unsigned comment added by 62.83.81.12 (talk) 00:58, 17 July 2015 (UTC)

THIS IS A WIKI ARTICLE, and not an official UEFA list so why count only UEFA organized competitions?
It has no sense whatsoever to stop counting intercontinental titles just because the competition was taken over by FIFA. The title has the same worth and it is not fair that new winners don't get the credit. Either count all the titles or none of them. Surely this article should be about honouring the achievement of a team more than the act of blessing by a bureaucrat. This is Wikipedia so we should stop pretending we are writing official lists. We are not UEFA.com. When UEFA has some official rankings we should simply copy them, and where they don't we should make our own with no consideration of what competitions they have or haven't organized. The Intercontinetal Cup issue is especially ludicrous. And why not simply make another column for the Fairs Cup? Zhmr (talk) 15:13, 14 March 2016 (UTC)
 * Quite simply because the competitions weren't administered by UEFA, so they are not UEFA competitions. There is a consensus on this. NapHit (talk) 13:21, 15 March 2016 (UTC)
 * You've missed the point completely, I don't think you've even read what I wrote. This is a wikipedia list, right? So why count only UEFA competitions? Zhmr (talk) 14:28, 16 March 2016 (UTC)
 * No you've missed the point, this list is only for UEFA competitions. It doesn't matter if this wikipedia or not, the list only counts UEFA competitions, it's not hard to grasp.. NapHit (talk) 14:35, 16 March 2016 (UTC)

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New table
Create a table with columns and lines to show the champions of each competition. The table should have the 7 columns (Year; UCL; CWC; UEL; UIC; USC; IC). In lines the specific years and champions clubs. The motif is to show diachronic and synchronic the importance of each phase and era tendencies. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2804:431:F7A4:633C:9490:CE4C:E698:C77A (talk) 20:07, 26 May 2017 (UTC)

European Club trophies
FIFA recognise the ICFC as a major trophy, so why is it not included in any table of the most successful club sides in European football? BRACK66 (talk) 00:32, 5 June 2017 (UTC)

Missing competitions
This page completely fails to mention the UEFA Women's Champions League and the UEFA Youth League even though they are club competitions. They should either be included or the page should be retitled to "List of UEFA men's club competition winners". Two other problems are the UEFA Futsal Cup and the UEFA Regions' Cup, although I'm not entirely sure the latter counts as a club competition. Madshurtie (talk) 15:27, 3 February 2018 (UTC)
 * Could be mention in the lead, that it is about men's football or does not include women's tournaments (well there is only one) and futsal. -Koppapa (talk) 05:34, 31 August 2018 (UTC)

FIFA Club World Cup?
Seems to make little sense to not include the FIFA competition that is regarded as the biggest club tournament in the world in many countries and not just title the article "List of FIFA and UEFA Competition Winners". What do people think about its addition? I think it definitely should be added as you participate in it by winning a UEFA tournament, just like the UEFA Super Cup. Davefelmer (talk) 02:35, 26 February 2018 (UTC)
 * No, this article has a defined scope already. If you add a non-UEFA competition just to get the Club World Cup in, why not add the Mitropa Cup, the Anglo-Italian Cup or something else? I realise you've given a decent reason for adding the Club World Cup, but what's to stop someone else from doing the same for those other competitions? No, this list is just for UEFA competitions. – PeeJay 06:09, 26 February 2018 (UTC)
 * Perhaps because Mitropa Cup isn't recognized by FIFA, and we're talking about UEFA and FIFA competitions? Govnery (talk) 16:36, 7 August 2020 (UTC)


 * Why is this still in the article, which clearly has "UEFA" club comps in the title, and not "FIFA"? Snowflake91  (talk) 21:37, 29 May 2019 (UTC)
 * Can you show me where the FIFA Club World Cup is mentioned in the article? I don't see anything that you think warrants removal. – PeeJay 09:33, 30 May 2019 (UTC)
 * My bad, thought that "IC" also includes Fifa WC titles. Snowflake91  (talk) 10:18, 2 June 2019 (UTC)

FIFA Club World Cup
Hi,

As some editors pointed out, FIFA Club World Cup is not a UEFA competition and hence should not be included on this list. However, in my opinion, it would be reasonable to include FIFA Club World Cup titles, as this tournament is (or at least supposed to be) the pinnacle of club football. This list shouldn't be reduced to UEFA honors, we should instead rename it to "List of FIFA and UEFA club competition winners", so that all major international honors (except Fairs Cup) won by European clubs are included. Govnery (talk) 07:42, 7 August 2020 (UTC)
 * The FIFA Club World Cup is not included in the article.  Tanonero    (msg)  10:29, 7 August 2020 (UTC)
 * I know. And I suggest that we include it because it makes sense! All international titles should be listed. Real Madrid won 26, for instance, but you can't find it anywhere because this page refuses to acknowledge their four CWC championships. Govnery (talk) 10:39, 7 August 2020 (UTC)
 * This article is not about FIFA competitions though. We don't need to include them just because the Club World Cup is considered (by some) to be the "pinnacle of club football". The Intertoto Cup is the complete opposite of the spectrum and yet we include it here because the scope of the article is UEFA competitions (or competitions co-organised by UEFA and CONMEBOL in the case of the Intercontinental Cup). – PeeJay 11:05, 7 August 2020 (UTC)
 * Well, it's unfortunate that there's no page that lists all international trophies won by European clubs. There's one for England, though: List of football clubs in England by competitive honours won. I don't get why we can't make a similar one for all European teams. Govnery (talk) 16:35, 7 August 2020 (UTC)
 * The scope of the article is for UEFA competitions only, it couldn't be clearer. WP:IDONTLIKEIT isn't a sufficient rationale to argue for the inclusion of FIFA competitions. NapHit (talk) 19:08, 7 August 2020 (UTC)

Subsection of Winners by Year
@Snowflake91

Hi,

my addition ( https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=List_of_UEFA_club_competition_winners&oldid=1121356436 ) of a list of winners by year was revised and therefore wanted to ask whether the list could then be included with the following changes:

(1) the logos could of course be removed

(2) if the color design is too much, the whole table can also be kept neutral in gray.

--->

I think the name of article List of UEFA club competition winners actually also implies a list of all winners per season and should therefore be implemented, if a consensus could be reached. Miria~01 (talk) 22:51, 11 November 2022 (UTC)


 * I don't think such a format with those several extra tables in the same row is acceptable for a FL article, and this isn't really needed at all since individual competition winners are already listed at List of European Cup and UEFA Champions League finals, List of UEFA Cup Winners' Cup finals, List of UEFA Cup and Europa League finals etc. Snowflake91  (talk) 23:53, 11 November 2022 (UTC)
 * Yeh, we already have the winners list in the individual articles. We don't need to replicate that here. It's a bit different from tennis or golf articles, as only one team can win the major honours, whereas someone could win a grand slam in the other sports. I agree with Snowflake that it's overkill. NapHit (talk) 23:55, 11 November 2022 (UTC)
 * ok, thanks for the quick reply and clarification.
 * @NapHit
 * the argument with the difference to e.g. tennis (listing Grand Slam titles) seems plausible to me Miria~01 (talk) 00:09, 12 November 2022 (UTC)
 * I actually don't mind the big table. The design can be worked on, but it's not a terrible idea. It's actually quite nice, IMO, to have an article that shows all the winners of the UEFA club competitions for a particular year in the same place. – PeeJay 07:33, 12 November 2022 (UTC)
 * In that case, Intertoto and Intercontinental Cup would also need to be listed since those trophies are clearly counted in the lead section and in all sections below, its indiscriminate to list only the winners of the five "main" competitions (which SuperCup is not anyway). And if those two competitions are added, then you'll have seven tables already which is way too much. Instead, we could add wikilinks to List of UEFA Cup Winners' Cup finals, List of UEFA Super Cup matches etc. somewhere in the article, like "to see the winners of specific competition, see List of UEFA Cup Winners' Cup finals". Snowflake91  (talk) 10:57, 12 November 2022 (UTC)
 * The wiki links to the finals of the competitions are a good compromise, giving readers a direct path for finding such information. Miria~01 (talk) 19:37, 15 November 2022 (UTC)
 * We can put them in the headers, pipe the links and have a note above the table stating where the wikilinks go. That does sound like a good compromise. NapHit (talk) 19:56, 15 November 2022 (UTC)


 * Oppose: With the list of finals and matches for single competition is enough.--2800:200:E840:1F3:9C7C:CF38:EFD3:9970 (talk) 14:27, 13 November 2022 (UTC)

Combining non-existing associations with existing ones
I think it would be clearer and more informative to combine the statistics of non-existing associations with the associations that the winning clubs currently belong to in the table titled "List of UEFA club competition winners by country." For example, we could merge Yugoslavia with Serbia since Red Star Belgrade is now affiliated with the Serbian association. This approach would ensure greater consistency between the two tables, as the one labeled "List of UEFA club competition winners" already considers the current association. Additionally, we could include a footnote in the current country's entry, specifying the previous associations it encompasses. I believe this is what has been done in other football-related list of winners articles.  Tanonero    (msg)  11:45, 1 June 2023 (UTC)
 * I'd go along with this as long as we included a footnote about the previous associations as you mentioned. Makes sense to me. As the person who created the page, I can't remember why the old associations were used. NapHit (talk) 12:05, 1 June 2023 (UTC)


 * No, because when those titles were won, the clubs represented a country called SFR Yugoslavia and not Serbia, two legally completely different countries, they entered the competition as the Football Association of Yugoslavia representatives, and not under Serbian FA. It doesn't really matter if the Serbian FA inherited Yugoslav records or not, we use countries at the time of the event, just as you won't separate the current Spain / Barcleona titles in the case that Catalonia gains independence one day, and its the same for Yugoslavia. Snowflake91  (talk) 12:13, 1 June 2023 (UTC)

I find the argument "It doesn't really matter if the Serbian FA inherited Yugoslav records or not" unconvincing. Why does it not matter? When creating a continuous ranking by country, the factor of inheritance must be taken into account. It doesn't seem logical to include non-existing countries in the rankings if their titles have been officially transferred to a new association that is currently competing. -- Tanonero    (msg)  13:04, 1 June 2023 (UTC)


 * Where is the source that "their titles have been officially transferred to a new association" though? The only record that Serbia inherited is UEFA ranking coefficient for both the clubs and national teams, for obvious competitive reasons, you won't find a source from UEFA that would say "we transferred titles and records from Yugoslavia to Serbia". The most reliable sources, like RSSSF, are also using Yugoslavia in their table. Snowflake91  (talk) 13:52, 1 June 2023 (UTC)
 * Well, I think it's a bit extreme to necessitate a source stating that directly, but you can see on the UEFA.com website that 1991 Champions League Red Star is indicated as a Serbian team, 1986 Steaua București as a Romanian team or 1986 Zenit as a Russian team. -- Tanonero    (msg)  15:28, 1 June 2023 (UTC)
 * Obviously because those entries are just redirects to their current UEFA profiles due to how the entire page / database is set up, note how they use "FCSB" and not "Steaua", and how they use current logos of the teams and not the 1980s logos etc., that doesn't prove anything, they even use "Türkiye" for Turkey, so a very recent change, and "Germany" instead of "East Germany" for Berlin, its just a database thing that copies the club identity from the present profile. In another Report from that same UEFA site, they use the "Soviet side" and "Yugoslav side", not "Russian" and "Serbian". Snowflake91  (talk) 16:02, 1 June 2023 (UTC)

Thank you for providing this example. However, I believe it would have been historically inaccurate to refer to those teams as anything other than Soviet or Yugoslav. Although I understand your argument regarding the database, I still think it demonstrates how uncontroversial it is to assign those trophies to their respective nations today. I can see we have opposite views, so I will defer to others who may be interested in joining the discussion, so I'll wait for someone who may be interested to chime in. :) -- Tanonero    (msg)  17:57, 1 June 2023 (UTC)