Talk:List of United States presidential assassination attempts and plots/Archive 1

"List of unsuccessful U.S. Presidential assassination attempts" vs. "List of U.S. Presidential assassination attempts"
I chose to name the article List of U.S. Presidential assassination attempts because the word implies that it was unsuccessful. List of U.S. Presidential assassinations would be the successes and List of U.S. Presidential assassination attempts would be the failures.

As a title, List of unsuccessful U.S. Presidential assassination attempts is long and bulky. Kingturtle 00:05, 4 Apr 2004 (UTC)


 * When I first read the title I thought it would include all assassination attempts, both failed and successful. So I guess this kind of ends the discussion right here, don't you think? Better to be verbose (and ugly) yet truthful, than concise (and possibly aesthetic) but of doubtful veracity. -- Dissident 08:44, 5 Apr 2004 (UTC)

Year 0 Curse
The article said, under "Ronald Reagan":

"Because Ronald Reagan survived the assassination attempt, he became the first president elected in a year ending with a zero since 1820 to survive and finish his term."

As written, this is false. Abraham Lincoln was elected in 1860 and survived and finished his term, which ended on 4 March 1865; he died on 15 April 1865. Franklin Delano Roosevelt was elected in 1940 and survived and finished his term, which ended on 20 January 1944; he died on 12 April 1945. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Dominus (talk • contribs) 13:54, 19 December 2004 (UTC)


 * HAHAHA DISREGARD THAT! FDR ran for a 4th term in 1944, which lasted from 1945-49; when he died in 1945, Truman finished out the term until 1949 and ran for election in 1948. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 128.239.183.26 (talk) 02:46, 24 March 2010 (UTC)

Why
i am not putting this article up for deletion because i know it will not be deleted. but what exactly is the point of this page? all this information can easily be expressed on individual pages. Sensation002 00:32, 11 May 2005 (UTC)
 * Because it is of interest to view all this information at once. If it is only on individual articles, then one would have to investigate each POTUS article. Kingturtle 00:38, 11 May 2005 (UTC)
 * As someone who was looking for something similiar, I would like to corrborate the above. I found this article extremely useful. However, I wouldn't object if someone decided to trim the article down to a list of links.68.191.117.208 (talk) 20:00, 24 August 2008 (UTC)

GW Bush
A live grenade is thrown at the president at lands 100 feet away - and authorities say it is not an attempt on his life? sounds like damage control to me. Kingturtle 02:14, 26 May 2005 (UTC)

It doesnt matter what sounds like damage control to you, are you saying you know more than the authorities? Even if it HAD exploded, that type of grenade has a maximum range of ~30 ft, which the president was clearly out of. And it was NOT a live grenade, you see? Because it did not explode.


 * (1) whether it would have killed him or not is a mute point. the point is that someone tried to injure the president. (2) when this story first broke, the Georgian authorities reported it, and the U.S. Government DENIED that it even happened. it took a few days before the U.S. Government admitted that it happened. (3) read the Clinton entry: Francisco Martin Duran fired shots at the White House from the south lawn thinking that Clinton was among the men in dark suits standing there. No one was hurt and Duran was sentenced to 40 years in prison. Clinton wasn't ever in danger. This list is meant to list incidents of attempts. Kingturtle 23:05, 26 May 2005 (UTC)


 * Great. Now this unnamed individual has decided that the solution is to remove the attempt on Clinton, too. Just leave it alone, wouldja, buddy? Squidd 20:08, 29 May 2005 (UTC)

I don't understand, I have provided you a SOURCE that says it was not a real attempt on Bush's life, when will you get your head out of your ass, and drop the ego, power-trip?


 * see my comments above. Kingturtle 03:16, 3 Jun 2005 (UTC)

The White House called it a war in Iraq, whereas Wikipedia calls it an invasion (2003 invasion of Iraq). Wikipedia is not bound by official government spin. Kingturtle 07:24, 5 Jun 2005 (UTC)

The article uses the word 'war,' AND the neutrality of the article is disputed. Both invasion and war are correct terms as I am concerned. White House spin? Are you kidding? Or just retarded? Both terms are neutral. Anyway, getting back to the article in debate. How the hell do you know? Were you there? Did you throw the grenade? What gives you the knowledge to dispute those who do know? EVEN IF, they are not telling the entire truth. Their (accused) half-truth STILL gives more information than what you infer. Please, put your ego out of the way. The person throwing the grenade did not intend anything other than fear, and not to kill the U.S. President.


 * It was a LIVE GRENADE. it just didn't go off. Kingturtle 06:25, 6 Jun 2005 (UTC)

I can see where Kingturtle is coming from here. Successful or not, likely to succeed or not, it was most likely an attempt to kill the president, and it was certainly unsuccessful. On the other hand, we don't know for sure that it was intended to kill the president. All we know is that an "inactive" grenade was found within 100 feet (30m) of where the president gave a speech the previous day. "Georgia's security chief said there was no chance that the Soviet-made RPG-5 hand grenade could have exploded and that the intention was probably to create public fear." I'd say that without more information, the prudent thing would probably be to not list it as an assassination attempt. -- Plutor 19:06, 20 Jun 2005 (UTC)


 * I totally agree with Kingturtle, if waving an unloaded gun is enough to make the list, so is throwing that grenade. demo 21:05, July 18, 2005 (UTC)


 * I re-added this. The incident was recently confirmed by Georgian authorities and the White house as an assassination attempt.--Pharos 20:25, 3 August 2005 (UTC)


 * After the latest news on this front, I agree. This definitely falls under the fuzzy definition of "assassination attempt".  -- Plutor 18:52, 29 August 2005 (UTC)

Expanding the scope
Why don't we just make this List of U.S. Presidential assassination attempts and include blurbs about Lincoln, Garfield, McKinley, and Kennedy. After all, which attempts were successful and which failed is largely a matter of historical accident, and it would be useful to have all incidents for comparison.--Pharos 00:23, 4 August 2005 (UTC)


 * I was going to complain that this would just be a merger with an article with a list of assassinations, but it turns out that such a list only exists in the PotUS article. I think this might be a good idea, as long as the list of events all stay roughly about the same length.  We should link to the John F. Kennedy assassination, etc, articles for more details.  -- Plutor 12:50, 4 August 2005 (UTC)


 * Congrats on the move and expansion. Lots of spelling and wikification mistakes, but that's okay.  That's why Wiki is great.  -- Plutor 13:50, 13 September 2005 (UTC)

Jonathan Gowan
While I was looking at this piece, I noticed how Jonathan Gowan was first. First of all, he isn't a president, unless they were talking about the assasin or the vice president. Second, I think we should combine all three into one Jonathan Gowan, although they were at different times. -F.T.

Who the hell was Jonathan Gowan? There never was a VP with that name. I looked him up here and on Google but didn't find anything relevent. Len

Attempt on Carter?
I've never heard about an attempt on President Carter's life, although John Hinckley was thinking about it before the 1980 election led him to change his target to Reagan. "Raymond Lee Harvey"? A little close to the name "Lee Harvey Oswald." Did this really happen, or is someone being a wiseguy? (Michael Pacholek, 6:43 PM EDT, May 30, 2006)


 * I've heard this before. But I can tell you that in 1980, some members of the Revolutionary Communist Party barged their way into the Democratic National Convention and tried to assassinate Carter there. DanTD 02:22, 27 November 2006 (UTC)

4 out of 15 chance
The article says 4 out of 15 attempts have been successful. So if someone were to try and kill the president, they have a 26 per-cent chance of succeding. By this logic if 10 ppl were to try on the presidents life they are almost guaranteed to suceed. 1 - ((11 / 15)^10) = 0.955020538 or a 95% chance of successs. DISCLAIMER:"I'm not suggesting or condoning anything"--God_of War 08:02, 31 December 2005 (UTC)

No, that would be presuming all the assasinations have been equally planned, equally thought out etc etc which is of course wrong. Some of the assassination attempts had a decent chance at being successul while others were just plain stupid. You can't really use percentages when it comes to situations like this because it has so many variables.

Where's Reagan?
Hi, I was just looking over this page to get the exact date of Mckinley's assassination and as I scrolled down out of curiousity and realized that Reagan did not make the list. I would attempt to fill in this information, but I am in the middle of doing a paper for school and also believe that someone else would do a much better job (seeing as how I have a tendency to write in run-on sentences)
 * Reagan's in the list. There's also a separate full article on the Reagan assassination attempt. -- Plutor talk 13:26, 28 November 2006 (UTC)

Separated successful presidential assassinations
Given this list is likely to be of most interest for those presidents who were in fact assassinated, I have separated out and emphasised the four successfull assassinations. I think it makes the page a lot clearer and user firendly. WJBscribe 00:24, 26 November 2006 (UTC)

Other attempts on Nixon, Carter & Clinton
I already mentioned the attempt by the Revolutionary Communist Party to kill Carter, but there are two others that haven't been covered.


 * In the early-1970's Richard Nixon was visiting Canada to sign some environmental agreement with Pierre Trudeau, when he face some demonstrators from a communist splinter group calling itself the "Movement for the National Liberation of Canada." Somebody tried to take a shot at him, and the RCMP took him out.


 * I haven't been able to find anything in Google about the "Movement for the National Liberation of Canada", nor anything about any assassination attempt in Canada. Do you have any sources, or further details that might be able to lead us to a source? -- Plutor talk 13:24, 28 November 2006 (UTC)


 * Here it is. I also heard about this in a late-1980's PBS Documentary mini-series called "Canda: True North." DanTD 15:04, 28 November 2006 (UTC)


 * Besides the attempted attack on Clinton by Francisco Martin Duran there was also that incident where somebody rammed a small plane into the White House in order to kill Clinton. Anybody else remember that? DanTD 11:59, 28 November 2006 (UTC)


 * That was Frank Eugene Corder, and according to his article, "friends claim he bore no ill will towards President Bill Clinton and likely only wanted the publicity of the stunt." His entry has been on this article off and on, it looks like, primarily because it's a challenge to determine when something becomes an actual "assassination attempt".  Does Leland William Modjeski's jump over the White House fence with an unloaded gun count? -- Plutor talk 13:24, 28 November 2006 (UTC)


 * My mistake. DanTD 15:04, 28 November 2006 (UTC)

I seem to recall that there were at least one (maybe two) other incidents involving shootings at the White House during the Clinton years, one of which -- if memory serves -- was at night, and no-one was certain whether it was a deliberate attack, or wayward gunfire from another crime. I remember it being the subject of a Newsweek article in the Clinton years, and I may still have the article. Whether these would qualify, if deliberate intent is uncertain, though, seems iffy. Sacxpert 02:33, 15 October 2007 (UTC)

Correction on Carter
I made a mistake. It wasn't the Revolutionary Communist Party that tried to assassinate Jimmy Carter. It was the Communist Worker's Party. Both are Maoists, so that's why I got them confused. DanTD 17:51, 28 November 2006 (UTC)

"Ambushed" the Blair House?
The description of the Truman assassination attempt says that the would-be assassins "ambushed the Blair House". Since "ambush" generally means a suprise attack perpetrated by people who had been lying in wait for someone to come along, it's kind of a baffling verb to use in regards to a building. Did they launch a frontal assault on the Blair House? Try to break in and find Truman inside? Or what? --Jfruh (talk) 02:13, 22 February 2007 (UTC)

Harry S Truman, not Harry S. Truman
His middle name was simply "S," it stood for nothing. So it is improper to use a period after his middle name. Removed. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 192.250.173.20 (talk) 04:23, 14 March 2007 (UTC).

Harry S. Truman signed his name with a period after the S even though his middle name was a single letter:  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 156.42.68.5 (talk) 00:04, 13 March 2008 (UTC)

Clinton?
Was the 1994 White House plane crash really an assassination attempt? It sounds like it was just a guy wanting to kill himself in news-worthy fashion. -- TexasDawg 17:20, 19 March 2007 (UTC)

Nixon is a bit of a stretch
The guy didn't even get the plane out of the airport, can this really count as an actual attempt? I am pretty sure if he survived the plane crash he would have been arrested for murdering the pilot, hijacking the plane, perhaps a weapons charge and at the very most threatening the life of the president. I mean there has to at least be some sort of near proximity to the target. The person doesn't necessarily need to get a shot off, or have a bullet in the chamber as Squeaky Fromm demonstrates in order to make an attempt, but crashing a plane that never even got close to the white house seems like a stretch. Just thought I would point out that this is the only website that lists the Nixon incident as an official attempt on the President's life. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Jdlund (talk • contribs) 11:16, 3 May 2007 (UTC).

Byck came close enough to count for Sondheim, and that's good enough for me. Stationary (talk) 21:40, 24 February 2010 (UTC)

JFK Assassination
The section on the JFK assassination was quite poorly written, and given over the rambling about various conspiracy theories and incorrect information about the House Select Committee on Assassinations. I cleaned it up a bit, and shortened it. I believe I have improved it, and would welcome other similar improvements to build on what I have done. Enigma00 04:43, 14 May 2007 (UTC)


 * I'm still dissastisfied with the JFK section. The HSCA finding's have come under recent scrutiny (the sole evidence for the other shooter, and thus a conspiracy, a dictabelt recrording, has seriously come into question), but I'm not sure of a way to work this into the article properly cited.  A mention of the public's dis-satisfaction with the Warren Commission's results, as well as the popular belief in some kind of conspiracy deserve to be noted, but to me the article still sounds a bit too non-POV, in favour of conspiracy theory.  It needs to be made better and more neutral, but I don't think I'm the one to do it.Enigma00 05:24, 22 May 2007 (UTC)

I've changed the JFK section to omit the part were it claims that the conspiracy theory shown in JFK2 was fact. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 194.81.254.172 (talk) 15:17, 21 November 2007 (UTC)

This shows why Wikipedia is a big crock of bullshit. The HSCA was any more interested in finding the truth about JFK's murder than the b.s. Warren Commission was. Anyone who has studied the case knows the truth about the conspiracy to murder JFK, carried out by the CIA. Read in particular John Armstrong's "Harvey and Lee: How the CIA framed Oswald" and Russ Baker's "Family of Secrets". But asking anyone at this intelligence operation known as Wikipedia to read something, let alone to tell the truth, is asking for the moon.

And while you're "cleaning up" (hiding the truth) how about figuring out on the Andrew Jackson section that you're describing two different kinds of firing mechanisms. First the pistols Lawrence used are described as "flintlocks", then there is talk of percussion caps. Make up your mind, which one is it? Or was that written by the idiot that refers to cartridges as "bullets"? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.23.21.81 (talk) 17:17, 26 June 2011 (UTC)

Number
The introductory paragraph says there've been 18 attempts on Presidents, yet I only count 17 on this page. What's the missing attempt? Or is the introductory paragraph mistaken? Nik42 19:25, 23 June 2007 (UTC)
 * There were two attempts at Ford, both are described under the same heading. Shall we split it? Max S em 19:46, 23 June 2007 (UTC)
 * I did see those two attempts, which is why I counted 17 and not 16. There were four successful assassinations, and then 13 unsuccessful ones against 12 Presidents and former Presidents. Nik42 21:08, 23 June 2007 (UTC)

Colombia
Wans't there an attempt on Bush when he was in Colombia, in 2003 or 2004?


 * Now that you mention it, I do seem to remember hearing something about Colombian authorities claiming they had broken up a plot to kill Pres. Bush on a visit to Colombia, but I don't remember any details. Break out the NYTimes and WPost archives. Sacxpert 02:29, 15 October 2007 (UTC)


 * Okay, I found some details. According to the Colombian Defense Minister, Jorge Uribe, the rebel group FARC ordered an assassination attempt against President Bush during his visit there. The attack would have been in Cartagena, Colombia on 22 November, 2004. A quote from the BBC article: "The Colombian authorities insisted that the attempt was thwarted by the heavy security net thrown up around the US president which, apart from his own secret service details, included 15,000 members of the Colombian security forces." It thus sounds like this wouldn't qualify, because it was just a conspiracy, rather than an actual attack. Also, there does not appear to have been much follow-up in the news, so who can say how serious this plan was. Sacxpert 08:34, 24 October 2007 (UTC)

Removing content
I disagree with Boo1210's removal of content from sections on attempts that have their own articles. Short summaries are needed anyway. Any thoughts? Max S em 17:18, 8 November 2007 (UTC)

Cheney
Cheney is not a president; why is he on this list? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Memprime (talk • contribs) 05:32, 16 January 2008 (UTC)

Successful assassinations
I'm thinking of adding a sentence (or maybe two) for each of the "successful assassinations". It would be nice to be able to get the date and basic facts without going to another article. Objections?Originalname37 (talk) 17:03, 3 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Ok. It's done.Originalname37 (talk) 18:49, 3 April 2008 (UTC)

George H.W. Bush
Seymour M. Hersh wrote in 1993 about a classified CIA study "that was highly skeptical of the Kuwaiti claims of an Iraqi assassination attempt". ("A Case Not Closed", 1993) More recently, Michael Isikoff reported that U.S. officials studying captured Iraqi intelligence documents have found no evidence of a plot to assassinate George H.W. Bush. ("Saddam's Files", 2008) Perhaps a short note of caution is warranted? smb (talk) 00:53, 8 April 2008 (UTC)

OBVIOUS White House geography error
It's sad how many comment on an article, pretending to be alert and thinking critics discussing prime points, while obvious factual error sits in the article. This is one of myriad examples.

Duran shot at the WH from Penn. Ave., the house's north side -- as accurately stated in the Duran article, but not this survey piece, which cites the shooting spot as "outside the south lawn."

Contradiction alone identifies error even to one knowing nothing about the White House area.

Wake up Wikis. Wiki does wonderful service for quick reference needs, and generally improves over time. But when such obvious errors long go uncorrected while other talk drones on -- along with omnipresent grammar errors, obtuse and nonsensical constructions, and the like -- credibility is undermined; and dreamed of academic citability (if that's a word) continues to elude.

76.100.52.204 (talk) 11:14, 6 May 2008 (UTC)Mark Powell


 * Please feel free to fix this error in the article to help Wikipedia improve. --CapitalR (talk) 11:15, 6 May 2008 (UTC)

Carter's first assassination attempt
Why is this in here? Unless someone sent the angry rabbit after Carter, its more a case of him being in the wrong place at the wrong time. Bobbit bob (talk) 05:04, 1 July 2008 (UTC)

Concur. Also note the frequency of people being reported killed by angry rabbits. 57.67.17.100 (talk) 06:21, 24 July 2008 (UTC)

I agree. I removed the rabbit attack as an obvious prank entry.Harbinger08 (talk) 23:52, 25 July 2008 (UTC)

Possible Bush assassination plot?
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,398403,00.html

According to this, police are investigating Collin Matthew McKenzie-Gude (18) who has apparently been stockpiling weapons, which include 4 assault rifles, 2 shotguns, and 1 handgun as well as ammunition for them. Police also found a Map of Camp David (the president's personal retreat) marked with the presidential motorcade route, a CIA ID and Geneva Convention ID, and "chemicals and components commonly used to manufacture homemade explosives."

Should conspiring be counted as an assassination attempt, or is this too ephemeral to be included in the article? Blatantlie (talk) 23:34, 7 August 2008 (UTC)

Image copyright problem with Image:Frommeassassinationattempt.jpg
The image Image:Frommeassassinationattempt.jpg is used in this article under a claim of fair use, but it does not have an adequate explanation for why it meets the requirements for such images when used here. In particular, for each page the image is used on, it must have an explanation linking to that page which explains why it needs to be used on that page. Please check


 * That there is a non-free use rationale on the image's description page for the use in this article.
 * That this article is linked to from the image description page.

This is an automated notice by FairuseBot. For assistance on the image use policy, see Media copyright questions. --20:30, 12 September 2008 (UTC)

Include presidential candidates?
What about adding (attempted) assassinations of presidential candidates to this article? (e.g. Robert F. Kennedy, George Wallace) - Jason A. Quest (talk) 12:23, 17 October 2008 (UTC)


 * Maybe a new list would be in order, to cover future presidents and major presidential candidates killed or injured during attempts on their lives. That would encompass RFK, George Wallace, Andrew Jackson, James Monroe, Rutherford B. Hayes, and others.  Of course, not many future presidents have been killed, as far as we know.96.32.11.201 (talk) 04:07, 3 May 2010 (UTC)