Talk:List of World Rally Championship records

Records
The top paragraph says it's updated up to and including the 2008 Swedish rally. Some parts have been updated since, e.g. Sebastien Loeb's 40th win in Italy. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.103.164.172 (talk) 17:35, 19 May 2008 (UTC)

Methinks it would probably be wise to also start adding a co-driver win records list with the increasing number of articles about them now appearing. MRacer (talk) 11:29, 13 August 2008 (UTC)


 * Sounds good to me. Prolog (talk) 15:41, 14 August 2008 (UTC)

Talbot
Was Talbot French or British ? Hektor (talk) 03:48, 9 December 2007 (UTC)
 * British. I have corrected the flag now. Thanks, Prolog (talk) 19:43, 10 December 2007 (UTC)
 * While Ford is ultimately US-owned, AFAIK all the wins have been in British-developed machines, so should they not also be flagged as British? Mr Larrington (talk) 13:18, 20 July 2010 (UTC)

Citroën
Citroën event wins - I am pretty surprised that the number of Citroën event wins is equal to the number of Loeb wins, since I am more or less sure that Loeb won all his victories on a Citroën, but that other drivers have won an event on a Citroën. I would assume that Citroën has 50 event wins. Hektor (talk) 07:18, 31 August 2008 (UTC)
 * The number of Loeb's wins was up-to-date, but everything else was last updated after the 2008 Swedish Rally, until now. Prolog (talk) 13:18, 4 September 2008 (UTC)

Expansion
The article has been recently rewritten and expanded, which has introduced several problems: Capitalization and table formatting that is not in line with WP:MOS, 100% table width that looks bad on large screens, lots of unsourced records, lots of records that need constant updating and will therefore be quickly inaccurate, unformatted references, poor wikilinking (for example, "2008 Swedish Rally" was changed to "2008 Swedish Rally"), unexplained removal of some tables, unexplained removal of the notes and the presentation of juwra.com's stage win statistics page as fully accurate when it is in fact missing stats from several pre-1978 rallies. It should be easier to expand the old version than fix this new one. Prolog (talk) 04:58, 26 October 2010 (UTC)


 * Yes i agree and we should go back to the old as soon as possible. --WrcF1(Talk) 10:12, 26 October 2010 (UTC)


 * Yes, so do I. I tried to tell that user about the problems, but he just would not listen. I am now going to report this problem to the edit warring notice board and see how other administrators think. -- LS C HIST (talk) 09:01, 26 October 2010 (UTC)


 * Hello. I'm happy to see that an administrator has come to discuss about our problem and I strongly think that we can now start a constructive talk !! So Prolog, I start with the different points you're talking about :
 * 1.Capitalization, table formatting ==> can you give me more details about that, is this a colour problem, a font style problem and where ?? This is quite easy to modify. Do WrcF1's tables have the good capitalization and table formatting for example ?
 * 2.tables look bad on large screen ==> for this point you will have to help me by giving more details about the problem. I have tested my page with 4 different screens, I did a lot of modifications on the tables width and I didn't notive any problem anymore on the final version.
 * 3.unsourced records ==> that the point LS C HIST had talking about. Can you give me at least one example, a line in a table which needs additional sources. As I already said, I really don't understand that point.
 * 4.records need constant updating ==> well, I think that this page doesn't need more updates than the "2010 WRC season" page for example. It just needs to be updated after each WRC event, that is to say every 2-3 weeks max. I am a huge fan of rally and I am volunteer to take that point. Moreover, I think that this page still needs a lot of updates but it is mainly because of Loeb who is stil active and who holds several records. When Loeb is retired (at the end of 2011 season), it will be far easier to update that page because it will take some years before new records are established.
 * 5.unformatted references ==> I don't understand that point, can you give me an example from my work ?
 * 6.poor wikilinking ==> that's true and I chose to do that because a lot rally events do not have their own page on wikipedia. For example "1992 Rallye Côte d'Ivoire". But that point is very easy to solve, in less than 10 minutes. I can do it.
 * 7.unexplained removal of some tables ==> which tables ???
 * 8.unexplained removal of juwra stage wins ==> that's true and this is very easy to add. I can do it too.

Thanks in advance for your answer. Regards. @LS C HIST ==> this is very easy and wrong to say "that user just would not listen"..... We had a talk with my arguments and with yours. It would have been more honest to say I didn't understand you and you didn't understand me. Actually, I am disappointed to see that my work has already been destroyed without giving me the time to read this discussion. How am I supposed to do the effort to correct my page in that condition ?? If you just don't want me to correct my work, so what is this talk for ??? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Woodada (talk • contribs) 19:16, 26 October 2010 (UTC)


 * 1. Tables should use the standard wikitable format with no special colours (unless necessary). Text like "🇫🇷 Sébastien Loeb" should be left-aligned. Capitalization should be done only when necessary (see WP:MOSCAPS). So, no headers like "Special Stages" or "RECORDS : DRIVERS".
 * 2. I am referring to the tables like "DRIVERS : RECORDS". Removing the fixed percentages from the columns and setting a "max-width" attribute should reduce the huge amount of whitespace that the tables create on 1920*1080 and larger screens.
 * 3. For example, what is the source for the "Fastest stage win"?
 * 4. The difference between this and the 2010 season article is that on this article it may not be clear to the readers (or even the editors) which numbers are up-to-date and which are not. Even before your expansion, the stats on this page and on the biographies of active drivers were chronically out-of-date.
 * 5. You had bare links ( http://www.juwra.com/driver_statistics_wins.html ) instead of citations as references (see WP:CITE).
 * 7. At least the "Closest wins" and "Fastest rallies" tables were gone, though you did keep the records in the article. Prolog (talk) 10:48, 27 October 2010 (UTC)

Lets just keep it as it is at this time and i will do the updateing as i do it for the 2010 season.--WrcF1(Talk) 23:20, 27 October 2010 (UTC)


 * 1. I understand. Blue colors were added for an "easy to read" purpose. So you mean everything must be in white ?? Nevertheless, I do not understand the second point : "no headers". If I delete the headers, it's going to be unreadable. The headers were created to separate the big table into different categories AND to edit those different parts separatly, without having to edit the entire table when necessary.
 * 2. OK, so quite easy to fix. I didn't know the "max-width" option.
 * 3. Ah!! At least the most intesting part !! Well, firstly I knew that the fastest stage in WRC history was one of the 1983 Rally Argentina beacause this event with this specific year is very famous for that. Some of the stages had more or less no laps and the drivers were juste flying. You can find this record here for example : http://www.juwra.com/season_1983_stage_stats.html ; do the same for every season and you will find that there have never been a faster stage than 1983 Argentina SS1. BUT, maybe you will tell me "it's no clearly writtent that this is the record". Yes that's true, here's my answer : let's take the Citroën WRT Wikipedia page http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Citro%C3%ABn_World_Rally_Team ; what is the source for the 60 wins ?? There is no concrete source for that on the web, but that figure has been discussed in the talk part of the page. So, as for Citroën WRT page, I am ready to discuss every WRC records I added for which there is no clear source on the web. And in fact there are that kind of records in my page, they are not sourced on the web, even on www.juwra.com but I have calculated them from sourced data. For example : record for the number of Points Finish Rallies. This record is for Carlos Sainz with 139 rallies, I have calculated it with Sainz and other top drivers career data and it is not on www.juwra.com. But I am ready to discuss about it if you have a doubt on the figure.
 * 4. OK, so let's take another example, this page : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Formula_One_driver_records. F1 records. This page if far more huge than mine, it needs constant updating too and there are more F1 events than WRC events. So, do we have to delete F1 records page ?? Moreover, to answer your question, the last rally event from which the figures have been updated is written on the very top of the page, just like F1 records page. As I said, I can't do more than being volunteer to update my page after each WRC event.
 * 5. Yes that's true. I did that again for an "easy to read" purpose, readers have immediatly a visible link. But, we can add references too even if I don't think it will be more readable. I notice that for many tables on the F1 records page, there is no links and no reference.
 * 7. OK, I didn't notice that. This can be easily add to the page.

Woodada (talk) 23:59, 29 October 2010 (UTC)


 * 1. The colours should be the ones that the standard wikitable style is set to show. This ensures consistent and widely accepted style across the project. Headers: I was referring to capitalization by using two incorrectly capitalized headers as examples.
 * 3. This is original research and records based on that can not be added to Wikipedia. The Citroën number you mentioned is also problematic, though less so.
 * 4. No page is being deleted here. While the F1 record articles contain even more stuff to update, there is also a big difference in the number of active editors in the F1 and WRC topic areas. Prolog (talk) 17:59, 31 October 2010 (UTC)


 * 1. OK, now I understand.
 * 3. Well... OK I understand, "Original research"... Maybe in the F1 records page there is "original research" records too because all that I can see on this page are dozens of wikitables without any source, I can give you hundreds of wikipedia pages which are in the same case, but this is not important. For a reason that is unknown to me, Wikipedia rules just seems to stricly apply on this page. Maybe I should have created a website in 30 minutes in order to paste my work on it, and that would have been called a source... I don't know. But don't worry, this is really not important as you will see in the next point.
 * 4. OK... This time, I really can't do anything. You should have told me that at the very beginning, I wouldn't have wasted my time in that stupid and useless discussion. The moral of all this : "Wikipedia pages which seems to have a lot of contributors can have a lot of information. Wikipedia pages which seems to have few contributors are not allowed to be exhaustive and extended". Strange way of thinking, but as an Administrator you should add this to the "Wikipedia Rules". The conclusion to my point of view : I have spent between 20 to 30 hours to create the page you've seen and to calculate all the information in it. That's an undertstatement to say that I am completly disgusted and disillusioned. As a quite new contributor I would have need some help from the others and mainly from you. You are an administator, I can imagine that it's part of your role to help contributors. Instead of that, instead of talking about rally (that was my primary goal on Wikipedia, to give to the rally and WRC the same visibility and accuracy than other sports, records page was just the beginning), we've talked (uselessly) about colours, sizes, font, original research and last but no least "not enough contributors to accept your work...". So, with your very busy administrator timetable, I hope you will take 5 seconds to ask yourself the following :"Have I done everything to help this new contributor to keep the essence of his work ??". For me, it's time to travel to the far more comfortable space of wikipedia readers/leechers and to stop my young contributor career forever. Good Bye.

Woodada (talk) 21:28, 7 November 2010 (UTC)


 * I think you have misunderstood my comment(s) and my position here. I'll reply to this on your talk page. Prolog (talk) 00:37, 8 November 2010 (UTC)

Sébastien Ogier Title Update
He has won the title in 2015 and is now 3rd in all time title holders. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Swagger9000 (talk • contribs) 03:35, 20 September 2015 (UTC)

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Tyres?
Do we need a section for tyres, Pirelli, Michelin, etc? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 79.65.103.90 (talk) 23:55, 8 October 2017 (UTC)

Loeb stage wins
I have to mention this, somehow before Mexico-update we had 909. Now, we have 908. Currently juwra.com says 906, adding Loeb 3 stage wins in Mexico - 909? ewrc-results btw has 907. --Pelmeen10 (talk) 21:54, 11 March 2018 (UTC)

wiki before Mexico=909, so after that 912. Why is it changing all time to 909 ? — Preceding unsigned comment added by RacingAddict (talk • contribs) 21:40, 4 April 2018 (UTC)
 * Check here http://juwra.com/loeb_sebastien.html --Pelmeen10 (talk) 12:44, 5 April 2018 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 4 April 2018
RacingAddict (talk) 21:34, 4 April 2018 (UTC) LOEB STAGE WINS = 912
 * Red information icon with gradient background.svg Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. —   IVORK  Discuss 02:43, 5 April 2018 (UTC)

Power stage wins
Is a Top-10 of Power stage wins worth adding? It is a statistic after all, but I can think of 2 problems.

1. Only drivers of 2011 (the year Power stage was introduced) and present have been able to score these wins, meaning not everyone is eligible for the list, unlike the other records. 2. No other site, like Juwra and eWRC, list this statistic so maybe it is not interesting enough. Juwra's driver profiles do however list how many Power stage wins the driver has, so in that case we would have to refer to each driver profile and compare. Kovpastish (talk) 23:05, 19 May 2018 (UTC)
 * They are already listed at Power Stage (top5). --Pelmeen10 (talk) 16:31, 22 August 2018 (UTC)