Talk:List of X-Men members/Archive 2

Caliban as X-Man?
I know that Caliban had joined X-Force before his death (which the table clearly states) but does that include him as a member of the X-Men? Hepzibah actually joined the team for a mission or two BEFORE her brief stint in X-Force, so she should "count". I'm just not sure about the big lug though... Tullyman (talk) 03:43, 18 September 2008 (UTC)

Personally I dunno... it's kindof a grey area... I think Caliban was meant to be an official member of the team, even if that didn't quite come across 100% in the actual book... it's kindof similar to Xorn 2... same story really, he was kinda there, for an issue or two... he was techincally supposed to be an X-Man... but they didn't make it all that clear in the actual book, and then he was gone just as quickly, before it ever could be clarified.

What mainly makes me think he was supposed to be a member is, his picture was in the corner box on the cover, with the rest of the team for a few issues... I know that sounds kinda dumb, but I take it as a clear indication that marvel's intent was or him to be a member of the team, before killing him off.76.16.57.78 (talk) 04:06, 29 September 2008 (UTC)


 * I agree that it seems like Caliban was supposed to be considered an official member of the X-Men, and I agree that my main reason for thinking this is that he appeared in the corner box on the cover. This said to me that he was a member of the team and his helping the X-Men against the Morlocks was his joining of the team/first "mission." Who knows, maybe he was actually going to be on the team longer but then plans changed and he was switched over to the X-Force team for "Messiah Complex"? Then again, the members of X-Force seem to be considered X-Men anyway, which pretty much makes Caliban an X-Man by default either way . . . DeadpoolRP —Preceding undated comment added 20:31, 13 September 2009 (UTC).

Sage as a founding student
Although Sage was never title an "X-Man" she was trained and selected the same time frame as Beast she should be moved to the top arch of X-men and listed as "clandestine X-Man" as should Vulcan, Darwin, Petra, and Sway. Support for this is found in X-Treme X-Men no. 2 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 157.174.221.169 (talk) 17:10, 14 October 2008 (UTC)

Paris-based team in New X-Men #128-130
"M, Darkstar, Multiple Man, Siryn, & Rictor" should not be in the Main list of X-Men Tomahawk1221 (talk) 20:52, 25 October 2008 (UTC)


 * Unlike all other teams seen affiliated with X-Corporation, the team based out of the Paris office (which included M, Darkstar, Cannonball, Siryn, Multiple Man, and Rictor) were explicitly named as X-Men. Professor X referred to them as X-Men to the press, to the police, to Fantomex, and to the team themselves (the last when he, Jean, and Fantomex rescued them from Weapon XII).  He even called the team to his side by telepathically commanding "to me, my X-Men."  Please do not delete these characters from the list of X-Men proper. --Archimedean (talk) 03:42, 26 October 2008 (UTC)


 * Dear Archimedean: Quite simply, you couldn't be more wrong about your "paris x-men" talk, if this would be correct, then why wouldnt you add "sabra" or for that matter, anyone else in X-Corps/X-Corporation rosters.  Your edits have no merit. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Tomahawk1221 (talk • contribs) 04:20, 26 October 2008 (UTC)


 * Of the characters seen affiliated with X-Corporation, only the characters who have been moved to the X-Men list were declared X-Men characters in-story. No others (including Sabra, Sunspot, Feral, Thunderbird, Warpath, etc.) were called X-Men in-story, so it wouldn't be appropriate to place them in the list.  It may be that the Paris-based team was an X-Men team working out of the Paris X-Corporation building, or it may be that all X-Corporation members were official X-Men.  There is no evidence to support, much less to definitively declare in favor of, either conclusion.  M, Siryn, Rictor, Darkstar, Cannonball, and Multiple Man were repeatedly called X-Men by Xavier, though, which is a clear declaration for these characters, at least.


 * You may be right about the "currently" sections. I've not set out to add them so much as I've split off existing content (many characters had listings of when they were last seen or where they currently appeared buried within their listings) and attempted to standardize.  Most of my edits in the last day have been in support of standardization and grammatical cleanup of the page, as urged by the tag currently emblazoned above the page's contents.--Archimedean (talk) 13:02, 26 October 2008 (UTC)


 * Xaiver referred to X-Corporation worldwide as his X-Men in New X-Men #128, not just the Paris branch. Here's the exact text from that issue, pages 2-3...

"The doors of our international X-Corporation offices are now open. Consider us a worldwide refuge in times of trouble.  Simply think of the emergency 'X' -- you'll register on out Cerebra machine.  And trained X-Men will be on hand to help you."

Ergo, all X-Corporation members would be considered official X-Men. Also, Sabra was part of the Paris branch, the exact same branch which the mentioned characters (Madrox, Siryn, Monet, etc) were part of. Singling out a select few is incorrect as that was never done in the books, either all X-Corporation members should be considered X-Men, or none should. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.229.126.234 (talk) 21:45, 3 November 2008 (UTC)

Again, adding these 5 to the official team is strictly personal preference, you are super-ceding the grounds for membership with incorrect and misguided criteria, thus degrading the integrity of this article. Nowhere besides your own brain have these five been official "X-Men". However, as many times as people might say, "take it to discussion", we will have editing wars. Please, Cease and desist.Tomahawk1221 (talk) 19:22, 4 November 2008 (UTC)


 * Just randomly, if the Paris 5 were indeed X-Men, then why were they omitted from cover of X-Men Legacy (I think) showing all known X-Men or from both roster lists of the Handbooks (which have been stated to be canon), whereas Armor, Lady Mastermind, Caliban & Mystique (who all joined after the Paris 5) are shown as part of the roster. StarSpangledKiwi (talk) 09:42, 6 November 2008 (UTC)

Just to clarify, kiwi, Lady Mastermind & Mystique are shown on the cover of X-Men #200 (vol. 2/Legacy), whereas Caliban, Hepzibah, and Armor are official soon after it was printed. None of the paris 5 are included on the cover. Also, it has been documented that Multiple man has been offered membership to the X-Men and DECLINED throughout his existence(read his own personal article). Plus, the case for Darkstar? She is not even related to any other x-team.Tomahawk1221 (talk) 00:25, 7 November 2008 (UTC)


 * As mentioned above, it was quite explicitly stated by Professor Xavier that each of the branches of the X-Corporation was staffed with a fully trained squad of X-Men, and the Paris squad that included Madrox, Darkstar, etc., was just such a squad (and the one Xavier was with when he made that statement, I believe). Now, whether you interpret that as meaning that the members of those X-Corporation squads were "OFFICIAL" X-Men or not is your own choice, although Marvel's handbooks don't seem to consider them as such (though Danger seems to). But I nonetheless think some of the comments in this section are pretty off base: As far as Darkstar "not [being] even related to any other x-team"--she's helped the X-Men on several occasions, and she's now at least been a member of X-Corporation (if not the X-Men). The argument that Multiple Man wouldn't join an X-Team because he's declined in the past? That was pretty much taken directly from the words of Madrox's evil dupe when he was trying to trick people into thinking he was the original. And since that time, Madrox been a member of two X-Factor teams and X-Corporation, and he's worked undercover with Forge for Professor X, which obviously disproves the theory that he wouldn't join an X-Team. And the cover to X-Men #200 only showed members of the core team (not side/temporary teams like the New Mutants Graduate team, the Muir Island team, the Planet X street team, etc.), but I believe that before the issue came out Marvel pointed out that a few characters had been left out (some or all of them may have been added in between the time that the cover appeared on the Internet and the time the issue came out, but I'd have to do some research to be sure). And from what I can tell, Caliban's status as an "official" X-Man is still debatable, though he's still on the list here (the same could be said for X-Man, who's not on the list). Anyway, one very good point was made: You'd have to either consider all or none of the X-Corporation squads X-Men, and it's clear which way the handbooks have gone, despite Xavier explicitly calling them X-Men. Now we'll have to wait and see how they interpret Pixie's "We're all X-Men now" comment. I'm hoping they consider them all X-Men. And that Diamond Lil gets a memorial service . . . DeadpoolRP

Article Heading Image
So, the cover to X-Men vol. 2 #200 isn't good enough for the article heading image? Why not? So we've reverted back to now an almost 3 year old image to depict X-Men members? It's not a "clear enough image"? I beg to differ, or at least update this outdated image please. Tomahawk1221 (talk) 18:09, 28 October 2008 (UTC)


 * At the size that it was in (200px) the only one you could clearly see was magneto. This image is old, but at least you can recognize everyone there, and the majority of the people there are either still on the team, or recognizable enough to stay on the image. We had a discussion about the image before, AND the image you put up was part of the discussion. It was not chosen. --  Phoenix741  (Talk Page)  20:32, 28 October 2008 (UTC)

Understood. Wouldn't the image/cover of X-Men #200 be the most appropriate for this article were it "large" enough to see even the background characters? It is the only image that exists that addresses what this article illustrates. Can it be used if it is larger(?), do people just have an unbreakable affection towards the old one(?), or do some just simply dislike the image itself (due to membership discrepancies, artwork, etc..)? Also, Uncanny #500 cover, in my opinion, would be a poor choice only because it has mixtures of teams.Tomahawk1221 (talk) 01:24, 29 October 2008 (UTC)


 * If the image was big enough, then it would be a good image. But the size required for it would be way to large.--  Phoenix741  (Talk Page)  02:22, 29 October 2008 (UTC)

Shortening
A lot of X-Men members are repeated on various lists and groups, and a lot of the time it gives odd and random pieces of info on them each time. I cleaned up the X-Men Graduates list, so that the Powers are now consistent with those entries in the above lists. I think memebers who already have info on them shouldn't be filled in again; maybe a 'see above' link that re-directs to the already filled out entry? I've only just peeked into this article, and I really like the new organization with the 'Where They Are Now' heading and the seperation on notes and powers. I think each new character included should follow the same system, and any repeating characters that show up again should get a re-direct link. The exception would be the very minor characters (like the students) and such. Saintvlas22 (talk) 20:34, 10 November 2008 (UTC)

M as X-Man?
I believe that 'M' has been deemed *not* an official X-Man. I wanted to open discussion to this matter as I believe she should be referred by her X-Corporation status "on-loan" to the X-Men for only one mission (and removed from the Official List). Please Discuss..Tomahawk1221 (talk) 01:45, 10 January 2009 (UTC)

Lady death strike —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.57.25.42 (talk) 20:12, 10 May 2009 (UTC)


 * In this month's X-Men: Legacy Annual, M is described (by Danger during a briefing on Emplate led by Cyclops) as "former X-Man Monet St. Croix." This is not only an unequivocated statement of her status, but tracks with M's comments in Uncanny X-Men #410 (""We" X-Men? "We"? There is no "we" here, Stacy X. There is the X-Men... ... and then there is a mutant prositute hitching a ride.") - which seemed to indicated M's status as an X-Man at the time.  It seems pretty clear that she should be included. --Columbia clipper (talk) 01:45, 21 September 2009 (UTC)

The Deadly Genesis Team
I'm beginning to think they shouldn't be listed in the primary list at all... 1st they were listed before the "Giant-Size" recruits (Wolverine, Storm, Etc) Now they're listed under the 2000 Recruits... neither spot really made a ton of sense, and it got me thinking, are they really deserving of spots on the main list? They were a flavor of the month team not even featured in a primary book, but a limited series. They've had very little story development as a team, they don't have a whole ton of history in the X-Men universe, other than what was retconned in, Vulcan has been a villain since the moment he was introduced, Darwin could be safely listed as a 2000 recruit, Petra & Sway are both essentially throw away characters. Aside from Darwin, why do these people deserve spots on this list? We've got teams like the Muir Island X-Men, The Astonishing X-Men & The Phalanx Covenant X-Men listed under special headings because they were short-lived teams that had a short-lived imapact. Why is the Deadly Genesis team special?

So, I'm moving them. If anyone objects, feel free to discuss it here.76.16.57.78 (talk) 06:57, 11 May 2009 (UTC)

I support this change. Nothing about this team says "official" to me. They were never featured in a mainstream X-Men title, as a mainstream team. Two of them have only ever appeared in flashback. The story that primarily focused on them was a limited series. And story wise, with the acception of Darwin, they were only ever on-loan from Moira for one emergency mission, which they failed. How does being thrown hastily into one emergency mission make them any more an official team than the Phalanx Covenant Team, the Eve of Destruction Team, or the Planet X Street Team? The only thing that sets them apart which I can see, is they were chosen by Xavier, but that's obviously not a necissary requirement for this list, because if it were, Lifeguard, Slipstream & pretty much everyone to join for the last 3-5 years would have to be removed, because he hasn't been recruiting for a while.

The real X-Men were taken captive. Xavier recruited a substiute team for one mission, which failed to rescue them. After that failed mission, the original X-Men were rescued, and returned to active duty, with new recruits like Wolverine, Nightcrawler, etc. Darwin inevitably stayed on as a team member, so I have no problem keeping him listed him as such, but this was very much so a substitute team, even if they were picked by Xavier.Gillbob316 (talk) 01:23, 29 May 2009 (UTC)

Warlock
Under the "New Mutant Graduate X-Men" section, Warlock's powers are described as "Techno-organic body, shape-shifting, infection, and ..." The infection part is ambiguous: Can he spread an infection? Does he have immunities to infections? Is it related to the virus he creates? Would someone with some better knowledge about this superhero clarify this please? Fdssdf (talk) 00:52, 4 July 2009 (UTC)

Manifest Destiny Recruits
It's become more and more clear since the X-Men's move to San Fransisco that the X-Men team has grown well beyond just the characters being focused on in each individual book. Nary an issue goes by where several dozen supporting X-Men don't play a roll. They've been referenced as X-Men by other members of the team. Writers pretty much seem to acknowledge they're all extended team members. Some of them, such as the Setpford Cuckoos, are even regularly used in several books... the Cuckoos have pretty much become the X-Men's "Go to" psychics in nearly every title. Frankly, I don't see what makes Karma's roll so great that she deserves a spot on this list, whilst other support team members are completely ignored... other support members have played as big, if not bigger roles than Karma in recent months.

It is therefore my proposal that all the following characters be added to the list under the heading: "Manifest Destiny" Recruits...

The Stepford Cuckoos, The surviving Young X-Men, Domino, Elixir, X-23, all New Mutants not already on the list, such as Magma & Magik, Boom Boom, and many other characters I'm sure I'm forgetting. About the only people I'd leave off are the Science Squad, since they've made it clear they're mainly there to aid Beast in his research, and aren't active as X-Men, and Vanisher, since he's there against his will, and even Vanisher I'd consider adding to the "involuntary members" section.

X-Force and New Mutants members have even been refered too as X-Men. They play roles in X-Men titles. The titles of their books may not contain the word "Men" but its quite clear that the other X-Men acknowledge their presance and consider them members of the same team.

The only thing keeping me from making this change myself is the fact that I don't know how to sort out which individual issues each member would be considered to have "joined" in. Some of them have been in the background since manifest destiny started. Some showed up later. I don't know when and where exactly each individual mutant showed up.

Is there anyone out there who agrees with this potential change, and would be willing to help me move forward with it?Gillbob316 (talk) 00:16, 28 August 2009 (UTC)

I'm going to have to disagree with adding a Manifest Destiny recruit section. Although it is hard to pin down, this transition period creates the scenario in which SF is a mutant embassy. Karma did join officially, the rest are just periphery players. I know its confusing, but I recommend not adding periphery players to 'Official X-Men' during the Manifest Destiny/Utopia storylines. You state clearly, its undefined and difficult to sort out.

Another issue: What confirmation/sources are there for the recent addition of Namor, Cloak, and Dagger joining in Uncanny 515 after being in the Dark X-Men?? Please clear this up for me because currently it seems like speculation and likely incorrect.Tomahawk1221 (talk) 02:15, 14 September 2009 (UTC)

Well, Namor was shown as a member of the team in "X-men: The List". And Cloak and Dagger are shown in "X-men vs. Agents of Atlas" serving as members of an X-men strike team along with Surge, Rockslide and Sunspot, who also should be considered official X-men on this list. I think anyone shown in a strike team should be considered official X-men and added to the team member list. Others on Utopia should NOT be included like Lorelai, Erg, Dragoness, Avalanche, etc. until they actually serve as a member of a strike unit. Any thoughts? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.160.153.154 (talk) 05:53, 16 October 2009 (UTC)


 * Wasn't it stated in Uncanny X-Men/Dark Avengers: Exodus that "we're all X-Men now?"--68.50.75.74 (talk) 17:34, 19 September 2009 (UTC)
 * I've checked, and the statement was made (by Pixie) and writer Matt Fraction confirmed that this references all of the residents of Utopia. Thus, the current X-Men roster includes at least the following:


 * Adam X-Treme
 * Alchemy
 * Angel/Archangel
 * Anole
 * Ariel
 * Armor
 * Avalanche
 * Beast
 * Bling!
 * Boom Boom
 * Cannonball
 * Celeste Cuckoo
 * Cipher
 * Cloak
 * Colossus
 * Cyclops
 * Dagger
 * Danger
 * Dazzler
 * Dragoness
 * Domino
 * Dr. James Bradley
 * Dr. Kavita Rao
 * Dr. Takiguchi
 * Dust
 * Elixir
 * Emma Frost
 * Erg
 * Frenzy
 * Gambit
 * Gentle
 * Greymalkin
 * Hellion
 * Husk
 * Iceman
 * Indra
 * Ink
 * JEsse BEdlam
 * Karma
 * Litterbug
 * Loa
 * Lorelei Travis
 * Madison Jeffries
 * Magma
 * Magik
 * Match
 * Meld
 * Mercury
 * Mindee/Irma Cuckoo
 * Moonstar
 * Namor
 * Nekra
 * Nightcrawler
 * Northstar
 * Onyxx
 * Phoebe Cuckoo
 * Pixie
 * Prodigy
 * Professor X
 * Psylocke
 * Rockslide
 * Rogue
 * Sunspot
 * Surge
 * Toad
 * Trance
 * Warpath
 * Wolverine
 * X-23

--68.50.75.74 (talk) 15:13, 20 September 2009 (UTC)

Dates
I think it would be better if the dates separating the x-men should be set up like 1980-1989 as a pose to 1981-1990. When the heading says 1980's what you think is 1980-1989, not what is already set up. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.142.130.45 (talk) 03:41, 19 October 2009 (UTC)

Whoever is changing the dates, is simply wrong. If you were born in 1979, do you say you were born in the 80's?? No... 187.13.174.146 is the culprit...1980 is not "1970's recruits"...1989 is not "1990's recruits"! If you are thinking that the decade doesn't start until the 81/91 year etc. and using some sort of crazy rationale that the millenium didn't officially start until 2001 and applying that to subsequent decades, as stated, you are simply wrong. Another point, Moonstar has been an official code name for Mirage/Psyche numerous times and Warpath was only Thunderbird II with the Hellions, stop hijacking this page!Tomahawk1221 (talk) 02:27, 20 October 2009 (UTC)

So, in your book, the year 2000 is the 1990's?? Wow 187.13.174.146, can somebody get through to this person? Logic escapes you, and I find that sad.Tomahawk1221 (talk) 02:26, 22 October 2009 (UTC)

I just changed it, so hopefully nobody will change it back. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.142.130.45 (talk) 03:41, 20 October 2009 (UTC)  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.142.130.33 (talk)

Roster arrangement
For the DC Teams, Justice League, Justice Society, Teen Titans, and Outsiders (comics), their list of members pages are one giant list and membership is based on first actual appearance, and not retcons. Why do the X-men and Avengers list of members differ in that regard. 24.168.27.158 (talk) 19:02, 25 October 2009 (UTC)
 * If you take List of Justice League members, you have one giant list and you must scroll several pages to get some piece of information. Moreover, it is difficult to edit such a list. With several lists you can have a table of contents which helps to navigate.Cbigorgne (talk) 20:11, 25 October 2009 (UTC)
 * I understand that, and I do like this arrangement better, but it seems that it should be one way across the board. However, I do think it is an issue that this page regards retcons as times of membership and not the the issue of first appearance. Wikipedia is not supposed to be concerned with continuity, which can change, but hard facts and when a story was published. 24.168.27.158 (talk) 20:15, 25 October 2009 (UTC)

X-Men member status
The last Marvel Handbook released on 2/24/10 has a Wolf Cub profile. His group affiliation is listed as X-Men. I think this supports the idea that just about everyone is considered an X-Man now regardless of "Young", "X-Club", "X-Force" or just being on the island. Ultrabasurero (talk) 16:56, 25 February 2010 (UTC)

Lockheed as team member
Okay, so I'm curious what the rationale is for removing Lockheed from the main X-Men membership list and putting him in the "Other Status" section. He obviously doesn't belong there, because he's been listed in various handbooks as an official X-Men member (so there's no "other" about it), and what's said in handbooks is canon. Especially of note is the fact that he was listed as a team member in the Official Handbook of the Marvel Universe: Teams 2005 handbook, and when that list was further clarified in the errata section online (http://marvel.com/universe/OHOTMU:Data_Corrections_Teams_2005#X-Men), he was AGAIN listed as a member--but not only that, he was listed as a current, active member at that time. So, the only two questions I can see about his status are:

1.) Chronologically speaking, when should his membership be listed as starting? I wasn't sure, so I placed him in the list where his association with the team began, but if anyone has other suggestions, I'm open to them.

2.) Should he be considered an infiltrator? He's definitely not an "other," but he could possibly be considered an infiltrator (even if I'm not crazy about how that section is set up). However, as I mentioned earlier, that depends on when his official membership began. Since S.W.O.R.D. is a relatively recent organization, I find it hard to believe that Lockheed has spent his whole time as an X-Men member as a S.W.O.R.D. infiltrator as well. DeadpoolRP —Preceding undated comment added 00:46, 8 March 2010 (UTC).

Xavier Institute students currently missing from this page
I'm starting up a list of Xavier students we don't have on this list based on the info in the thirteenth volume of the Official Handbook to the Marvel Universe A to Z hardcovers:


 * Collider (James Prindle), alchemical transmutator, Generation M #4 (2006)
 * Crater (Erik Hallgrimsson), enhanced durability, New X-Men (vol. 1) #117 (2001)
 * Pako (Cirlio Crisologo), plant body, New X-Men (vol. 1) #117 (2001)
 * Eosimias (Hong Lianje), tiger-like appearance, New X-Men (vol. 1) #123 (2002)
 * Mentat (Robert Zepheniah), telepath, New X-Men (vol. 1) #124 (2002)
 * Stalwart (Adewale Ekoku), bulks up to enhance strength, New X-Men (vol. 1) #126 (2002)
 * Keratin (Dave Finn), clawed fingers, New X-Men (vol. 1) #126 (2002)
 * Polymer (Dana Holmes), sprays viscous liquid, telepath, New X-Men (vol. 1) #126 (2002)
 * Imp (Anders Nobel), horned appearance, New X-Men (vol. 1) #126 (2002)
 * Ruth Durie, small tail, X-Men Unlimited (vol. 2) #36 (2002)
 * Eleanor Sandford, spotted body, X-Men Unlimited (vol. 2) #36 (2002)
 * Butterfly (Lucy Priest), winged flight, New X-Men (vol. 1) #131 (2002) (darn, I guess Layla Miller can't use that codename . . . and never has . . .)
 * Elf (Natalie Wood), generates solid-photon objects, New X-Men (vol. 1) #134 (2003)
 * Saurus (Jorge Lukas), reptilian form, X-Treme X-Men #20 (2003) (and if I remember correctly, wasn't someone with the name Jorge Lukas shown as depowered and/or dead at some point? Also, at some point I think the name was attached to either Longneck or Forearm.)
 * Gelatin (Carlo Brewster), geletin form, New Mutants (vol. 2) #7 (2004)
 * Spencer Bronson, controls men, Mystique #12 (2004)
 * Skylark (Greg Carlson), arms transform into wings, X-Men Unlimited (vol. 2) #2 (2004)
 * Hitch-Hiker (Connor Laughlin), immunodeficient, possesses people, X-Men Unlimited (vol. 2) #6 (2004)
 * Caput (Abraham Verne), living energy animating skeleton, New Mutants (vol. 2) #7 (2004) (Whoah! Could this be the skeleton guy who was at that core X-Men members meeting in Nation X #1? That would make him an X-Man, or an X-Man-in-Training at least!)
 * Viskid (Adrian Defoe), sticky liquid form, New Mutants (vol. 2) #7 (2004)
 * Updraft (Johan Schumann), flight, Wolverine (vol. 3) #21 (2004)
 * Audio (Raymond Keyes), wide-frequency hearing, New X-Men: Academy X #1 2004)
 * Cudgel (Liam Bremner), arms transform into metal mallets, X-Men Unlimited (vol. 2) #10 (2005)
 * Elsewhere (Jaime Vanderwall), teleporter, X-Men Unlimited (vol. 2) #10 (2005)
 * Iolanthe (Katie Atkinson), fairy-wing flight, X-Men Unlimited (vol. 2) #10 (2005)
 * Lipid (Anne Moore), generates viscous liquid, X-Men Unlimited (vol. 2) #10 (2005)
 * Pinocchio (Frank Ludlum), turns into wood, X-Men Unlimited (vol. 2) #10 (2005)
 * Protozoa (Linus Sinker), transforms into giant amoeba, X-Men Unlimited (vol. 2) #10 (2005)
 * Marie D'Ancanto, human, Uncanny X-Men #450 (2005) (All done; however, the handbook doesn't list these students' first appearances, just when they first appeared as Xavier Institute students. So if anyone has info about first appearances that differ from the appearances listed, feel free to update the page!)
 * Plus, the entire Advocates squad:
 * Boggart (Robin Wise), enhanced strength, Uncanny X-Men #444 (2004)
 * Naiad (Aurelie Sabayon), breathes water, Uncanny X-Men #444 (2004)
 * Pinpoint (Gerard Cooper), high-range telescopic vision, Uncanny X-Men #444 (2004)
 * Trovao (Pedro de Noli), generates sonic booms, Uncanny X-Men #444 (2004)
 * Umbra (Patrick Nesbitt), controls darkness, Uncanny X-Men #444 (2004)
 * Xenon (Shaun Kennedy), generates light blasts, Uncanny X-Men #444 (2004) (All done.)


 * As well as creating squad sections for:
 * Excelsiors (mentored by Iceman, roster unrevealed) (Done.)
 * Exemplars (mentored by Beast and includes Angel Salvatore, with remaining members unconfirmed) (Done.)
 * Paladins (mentored by Kitty Pryde and includes Armor and Wing, with remaining members unconfirmed) (Done.)

And I think that's everything. I'll get working on this when I can, but feel free to help! DeadpoolRP (talk) 03:00, 18 April 2010 (UTC)


 * "Pako (Cirlio Crisologo)," & "Saurus (Jorge Lukas), reptilian form, X-Treme X-Men #20 (2003) (and if I remember correctly, wasn't someone with the name Jorge Lukas shown as depowered and/or dead at some point?" - both these civilian names were seen on tombstones in the Institute's graveyard in New X-Men.
 * "Also, at some point I think the name was attached to either Longneck or Forearm.)" - only by someone on Wikipedia, the same individual (I think StarSpangledKiwi, if you check back the edits, as I did some time back to identify the culprit) who added dozens of fake names for Xavier students, SHIELD agents, and various other entries.
 * "Naiad (Aurelie Sabayon)," - Aurelie was confirmed among the depowered in House of M: The Day After. You see one of the X-Men calling her parents to tell them their daughter was no longer a mutant. 86.138.120.85 (talk) 17:36, 22 April 2010 (UTC)


 * Hey, thanks for all of that info! Does anyone know the current status (depowered, deceased, etc.) of any of the other students listed here? Were there any other gravestones with legible names on them? DeadpoolRP (talk) 00:02, 26 April 2010 (UTC)


 * Okay, I updated the info about Pako and Saurus (that their names are on gravestones, so they were presumably depowered and then died in the bus explosion) and Naiad (that she was depowered and may have died in the bus explosion). Does anyone know if it's been confirmed that any of the three of them DID die in the bus explosion? Or that Pako and Saurus definitely WERE depowered before dying? Also, does anyone know exactly which issue of New X-Men (vol. 2) their gravestones were shown in, as well as any other post-M-Day comics showing gravestones?


 * Also, sorry if this is redundant, but as I mentioned above, the handbook volume doesn't list Xavier Institute students' first appearances, just when they first appeared as students, so if anyone has info about first appearances that differ from the appearances I've listed, please update the page! The handbook also doesn't list who's depowered and who's dead (whether from the bus explosion or from some other cause), so any information anyone can provide (and cite a source for, obviously) about these students and their status (depowered? deceased?) would be very helpful. DeadpoolRP (talk) 05:46, 16 May 2010 (UTC)

Well, I certainly don't intend to start an editing war and I concede to what the latest handbook says, but that doesn't mean I agree with the likes of 'Ariel' being a full fleged member (and other characters that are more than periphery players)or agree with marvel supposedly doubling "membership" in 2 years after almost 50 years of history. I also hope others don't play tug-of-war with edits. All I ask at this point is that somewhere in this section of the discussion page, indicate when you are done with the edits from the handbook vol 13. Fair enough? (I don't have the handbook and I don't want to guess when the edits might be done, or at least the major ones) I strongly disagree with 'current' x-force not being in the x-force section. After it's all said and done, its going to be a train-wreck with differentiating "in-training" vs. "manifest" vs. other status ETC ETC....The only thing I really agree with is adding the "secret team" to the main list and mystique/sabretooth/lady mastermind. Other than that, this list is going to resemble a franchise NO ONE recognizes. My guess is in a few years time and subsequent handbook volumes will concede this very notion.Tomahawk1221 (talk) 03:14, 20 April 2010 (UTC) Let me add one thought: and I quote you, RP, "Caput (Abraham Verne), living energy animating skeleton, New Mutants (vol. 2) #7 (2004) (Whoah! Could this be the skeleton guy who was at that core X-Men members meeting in Nation X #1? That would make him an X-Man, or an X-Man-in-Training at least!)"!!!!! WHAT!!!!???? I cannot help but have a change of heart with your edits. Your PREFERENCE and ignorance to the subject are highlighted by your own words. Your rationale that some character, on one panel, who happens to be in the same ROOM with some x-men, makes him an x-man or 'in-training'???? I call BS!! You've gone to great lengths to change this page, your edits lengthy, and it's more than apparent your preference and rationale are WRONG!! "CAPUT" is not an x-man, is NOT a rediculous category of "in-training" nor IS ANYONE ELSE of this similar stature. Thanks for HIJACKING this page, I tried to be diplomatic, but its obvious you are creating your own version of this franchise's history.Tomahawk1221 (talk) 04:29, 25 April 2010 (UTC)


 * Okay, let's try not to overreact here. I think a call to civility is in order, because I have been nothing but nice in what I've posted and nothing but cautious in my edits, announcing things in advance and asking for feedback before making major changes. However, the responses that I (and others, based on the discussion recorded here) get back are often derisive, aggressive, and mean-spirited, involving a lot of name-calling (even when it's edited out later) and ridicule of other people's comments and edits. When I (and others) back up edits with sources and quotations from comics, handbooks, etc., those points often aren't even addressed amongst the name-calling and insult-throwing that ensues. Opinions aren't facts unless you can back them up with some kind of evidence.


 * And now that that is out of the way, you'll notice that I didn't make any changes to the actual ARTICLE in question as far as the character Caput goes--I merely mentioned him on the discussion page, hoping that someone on here might know more about him than I do. I hope you'll excuse me for being a bit excited about possibly identifying a character who's been discussed with curiosity online (since he's an unknown character who was nonetheless shown sitting at the table during a "CORE X-Men members meeting"). I have no intention of editing articles based on vague hunches; however, the X-Men-in-Training squad is not a vague hunch, and if you want to discount its existence, I'm not sure what to tell you. You'll have to take that up with Marvel, because they're both the owners of the characters involved and the ones who officially identified the group as such.


 * Also, to respond to a previous comment, you'll notice that I've already been marking each of the changes that I outlined on this discussion page as "(Done.)" when I've completed it. So I'll continue to do that, and I hope you find it helpful. DeadpoolRP (talk) 22:29, 25 April 2010 (UTC)


 * I can tell you who the unidentified character in Nation X is. It's Dr. Nemesis. But, you say, it looks nothing like Dr. Nemesis. Agreed. It looks exactly like Holocaust, Apocalypse's son from Age of Apocalypse, which makes no sense because he's (1) dead and was killed in another reality to boot, and (2) even if he was alive, he wouldn't be welcome at such a meeting. But there's a very simple explanation - it's an art error. Writer puts down note of who to draw at meeting, including Dr. Nemesis, but doesn't think to provide a visual reference. Artist goes online to the Marvel Wikia site to get a visual reference, puts in Nemesis, gets this page

http://marvel.wikia.com/Nemesis_(Earth-295) and makes an understandable and very easy mistake. Supposition on my part, admittedly, but it's not exactly an unlikely chain of events, and given the possible individuals who might be expected to be present versus who was actually drawn, plus the overlapping aliases, it all fits pretty well. The other option is for it to be some brand new character who just happens to look exactly like Holocaust, and who got to sit in on one of the X-Men's core team meetings despite never having appeared before or since. 86.144.197.147 (talk) 10:59, 28 April 2010 (UTC)


 * Good call. That IS a very likely scenario. DeadpoolRP (talk) 13:28, 28 April 2010 (UTC)

First appearances vs. first appearance as Xavier Institute students
Breaking this into a new section, since the above is getting looooong. "however, the handbook doesn't list these students' first appearances, just when they first appeared as Xavier Institute students." For most of them, they were students when we first met them (or joined the same issue they debuted), so their first appearances match their first appearances as students. In the list above, the only exceptions I know are: Spencer Bronson, appeared first in Mystique #11, joined student body the next issue. Marie D'Ancanto, first appeared X-Treme X-Men #31.


 * Great, thanks so much for that info. I've updated the page accordingly, and let me know if you discover anyone else whose appearance issue differs from the issue they joined the student body! DeadpoolRP (talk) 21:21, 22 May 2010 (UTC)

Died in the bus crash
Again, splitting off a new section, to make it easier to read. "I updated the info about Pako and Saurus (that their names are on gravestones, so they were presumably depowered and then died in the bus explosion) and Naiad (that she was depowered and may have died in the bus explosion). Does anyone know if it's been confirmed that any of the three of them DID die in the bus explosion? Or that Pako and Saurus definitely WERE depowered before dying? Also, does anyone know exactly which issue of New X-Men (vol. 2) their gravestones were shown in, as well as any other post-M-Day comics showing gravestones?" Pako and Saurus' gravestones were seen circa New X-Men: Academy X #7, 8, and 9, the "ghost" story that revealed Jeffrey Garrett had survived the false Magneto's (Xorn) attack on the mansion in a non-corporeal form. Since that is well prior to M-Day, and since the students were searching amongst the graves of those slain in that attack, it appears they both died when the mansion was blown up, and so retained their powers at the time of their deaths. No evidence that Aurelie was on the bus - we know most students had already been sent home prior to the bus attack, so many of the identified students could as easily be alive as dead. 86.141.63.148 (talk) 16:47, 16 May 2010 (UTC)


 * Thanks for this info as well. I kind of wish Marvel would just reveal who did or didn't die, but I guess they probably don't want to unnecessarily limit future writers' ability to reuse characters by confirming their status. I'm glad they're at least (slowly) revealing more info about training squad membership, etc. DeadpoolRP (talk) 21:24, 22 May 2010 (UTC)

Prisoners
I see an edit war has gone on over this. First, I think it's highly unfair of FinalRapture to identify the editor who removed the prisoner as committing vandalism - even if you disagree with his reasoning, he's not trying to deliberately damage the page. So it's not vandalism. If he's guilty of anything it's an edit war, which is not the same thing. Second, I have to agree with him. This is a page for X-Men members; there's been lots of debate above over what constitutes membership, but by no definition do prisoners fit any membership criterion. Let's put it another way - if there was a page for "List of Staff at Alcatraz" you wouldn't be listing inmates in there, would you? Maybe one day some of those prisoners on Utopia will be successfully rehabilitated, and then join the team - then, and only then, should they be added to the lists here. But with regards to the prisoners on Utopia, if Wikipedia wants to list them, then a new page should be started specifically for them. 86.153.143.67 (talk) 09:31, 5 June 2010 (UTC)


 * I completely agree with everything said here: What was done wasn't vandalism (and is it even an edit war yet? I could be wrong, but doesn't something have to be changed back three times within 24 hours to qualify, or something like that?), and the prisoners don't belong on this page. A new page would be fine, though, if it's thought to be significant enough (I'm not sure if it is). DeadpoolRP (talk) 17:27, 5 June 2010 (UTC)


 * Thank you. I don't understand why that is being called vandalism, and quite frankly find it a little insulting with all the work I have put in trying to keep this stuff up to standards. 68.49.68.231 (talk) 01:02, 6 June 2010 (UTC)


 * I dont agree with that assumption because they are on the island as residents even if it is not of their own free will. So if the prisoners dont belong on this page, then why are other mutants like Frenzy and Nekra for example mentioned as part of the recurits/allies section. I dont see them wearing any X insignia stating that they are, and if they do belong on this page then how come others like Toad, Stinger, Litterbug, Erg, and a whole bunch of others are not your just contradicting yourself. Im not here to have a edit war with anyone, but if someone is trying to contribute something thats related to this, and then people remove the work someone put time into, then writing on here is nothing but propaganda, not contribution. Gijimu (talk) 23:47, 5 June 2010 (UTC)


 * I can kind of see the parallel you're drawing between the Manifest Destiny Recruits section and the Prisoners, but there IS a fundamental difference: The Manifest Destiny section is filed with allies whose X-Men membership is unclear--either they're students of the X-Men who may or may not be full X-Men-in-Training (Indra, Crosta) or they're mutants on Utopia who've ACTIVELY helped in defending the island (Nekra, Frenzy, Diamond Lil)--while the prisoners aren't even allies, so their LACK of membership is unquestionable. They're not members and don't belong on a membership list page, whereas allies and possible members can be seen in "allies," "honorary members," and "other status" sections, etc., throughout the page.


 * Characters like Toad, Stinger, Litterbug, Erg, Dragoness, etc., aren't listed anywhere because we've never seen them help the X-Men in the defense of Utopia in any way (and some of them have actually caused problems and hindered the X-Men!). They're island residents, but that's about it. (Rogue offered Toad X-Men membership, but he declined.)


 * So it's not that I don't appreciate the work and effort you've put into your list--I think you've done a good job with it. I just think you're putting it up on the wrong page. You could check around and see if there's an appropriate villains list page to include it in. Or you could start a separate "Prisoners of Utopia" page and see if it stands up to Wikipedia's standards of notability (which I honestly don't know enough about, so I'm not sure what the page's chances are). Or you could make a "Residents of Utopia" page and include everyone--X-Men, residents, prisoners, etc. I hope that helps. DeadpoolRP (talk) 00:16, 6 June 2010 (UTC)


 * Honestly, if things like the Manifest Destiny section are going to lead to problems like this, and if their inclusion is that questionable, it's probably better to leave them off the page altogether. One thing that's I've seen being drilled alot over my time here is that wiki wants to keep content to definite facts, and if they're that unclear about their status, you would be best served to remove that little section entirely. There's not really anyone in it who is that important to the page and if will cause future arguments on who is notable enough to put on this page, it's more trouble than it's worth. And to the user who wants to include these prisoners somewhere, if you want you can expand the version of Asteroid M that is now known as Utopia to include all the various inhabitats and make it a sub-article within the article itself.  68.49.68.231 (talk) 01:02, 6 June 2010 (UTC)


 * Well just for actual reference Dragoness involved herself in the fighting at the riots until she got knocked out. She was teamed with Trance and Toad who were being pursued by H.A.M.M.E.R Agents in the alley and they were fighting back before Gambit showed up to save Trance. Anyways I do think the prisoners are relevant, but I agree with you, DeapoolRP and 68.49.68.231, try to make it into a sub-article within the Asteroid M article. I just think it would be nice to know who is there regardless of being an ally or prisoner, using factual sources instead of personal preference which was what I was not trying to do. Im going to try the sub-article idea and if its viable, I could really use some help on it if you guys arent to busy.Gijimu (talk) 01:34, 6 June 2010 (UTC)


 * Removing the prisoners from this page and moving them to the Asteroid M page sounds good to me. Let us know when you have it started, and I'd be happy to look it over and add what I can. A list that might be helpful to you can be found here: http://forums.comicbookresources.com/showthread.php?t=9696&page=10 It unfortunately hasn't been updated much recently (some updates have been made, but they're not comprehensive), and it doesn't include sources or issue numbers, but it could help serve as a starting point. :)


 * Good call on Dragoness and Toad; however, at that point in time they were just a couple of San Francisco's many mutant residents and had no further connection to the X-Men. It wasn't until everyone moved to Utopia that the whole "member or just a resident" issue really came up, if that makes sense.


 * And 68.49.68.231: I'm not really averse to removing the "Manifest Destiny Recruits" section (though I wasn't going to suggest it). When I created it, I believe it served a very important purpose--getting a bunch of X-Men and X-Men sub-group members onto the official list until their official status (X-Men-in-Training, X-Force Strike Team, X-Club, full X-Men, or several of these) became clear. Now that most of that's been cleared up and most characters have been moved to the appropriate section(s), it's not too important. Frency's already listed on the Genoshan Assault squad anyway, and Cyclop's comment in the recent Dazzler one-shot that the difference between Emma and Mortis is that "Emma hasn't killed an X-Man" pretty much confirms that Diamond Lil was a member. And hopefully Indra's status will be cleared up in his upcoming X-Men Legacy arc and Fraction will elaborate on Crosta's in Uncanny at some point, which more than likely will only leave Nekra in limbo if we get rid of the section. DeadpoolRP (talk) 02:02, 6 June 2010 (UTC)


 * Well I made a new section on this page titled Residents of Utopia and then moved the prisoner sub-article there along with other unnamed residents. Let me know if its alright to leave it there, if not I will put it on the Asteroid M page like originally suggested. Also I got two questions for you Deadpool, any idea where Warpath is since his removal from X-Force havent seen him in Second Coming at all. And last but not least are the X-men still taking care of Leon Nunez? Did they move him to the medical lab on Utopia, cause of the confusion with Ink, he must still be alive but in a coma for Ink to use the powers.Gijimu (talk) 03:04, 6 June 2010 (UTC)


 * Looks good so far (but don't forget about Litterbug and Erg, etc.), but I'd definitely move it to the Asteroid M page (and I'd suggest beefing up the section on the fifth version of the asteroid in general) over keeping it here. Warpath's current status is unknown--we know he's no longer on X-Force, but it remains to be seen if he'll continue to go on missions with the main X-Men. And I would assume that Leon Nunez has been moved to Utopia, but I don't know if it's been confirmed anywhere. DeadpoolRP (talk) 03:22, 6 June 2010 (UTC)


 * I've started to turn the latest version of Asteroid M into its own sub article, which you can see here. You can start moving the stuff over there, since that info is more suited to that page than this one. And last I checked, Warpath is sill active with the X-Men, as he's seen in one of the Nation X issues. 68.49.68.231 (talk) 04:56, 6 June 2010 (UTC)

Ink is out of his coma
Since we're supposed to explain changes that could be seen as controversial before making them: I'm not sure why people keep changing Ink's status to inactive. He was seen during the "Utopia" storyline, and this sighting was confirmed in Marvel's recent Official Index to the Marvel Universe series, as well as in other sources. For example, his appearance in Dark Avengers/Uncanny X-Men: Exodus #1 (2009) can be confirmed on the Grand Comics Database (here: http://www.comics.org/issue/676543/ ), on the Comic Book Database (here: http://comicbookdb.com/issue.php?ID=178995 ), and on Comic Vine (here: http://www.comicvine.com/dark-avengersuncanny-x-men-exodus-utopia-chapter-6/37-170312/ ). So the character has come out of his coma, and I ask everyone to please stop marking him as inactive until we get some kind of confirmation in the comics that he has left the group. DeadpoolRP (talk) 21:05, 5 June 2010 (UTC)

Current state of the X-Men
To put it simply, I think this list needs some restructuring... due largely in part to the fact that the X-Men have been growing rapidly since manifest destiny...

Ever since their big move, they've been less a small, close-knit team, and more of a largescale pro-mutant army. Cyclops has said as much on-panel in several books.

As such, it seems that the direction things are going would indicate anyone currently under Cyclops' command is considered to be an X-Man at this point. This includes, but is not limited too, The Astonishing X-Men, The Uncanny X-Men, The Young X-Men, X-Force, and all the other secondary characters flowing in and out of the background in each book, but whom are not part of the main cast. (Such as many of the characters who recently appeared in Secret Invasion: X-Men) Pretty much anyone who appeared on the large foldout cover of X-Men #500, as it were. About the only characters who don't qualify are X-Factor & the small cast of X-Men Legacy.

However, as the secondary cast of X-Men has grown somewhat large and hard to control, some people seem to have a problem with adding these characters to the main list... I noticed many were recently added and then removed. I don't believe that's the right course of action however, because for all intents and purposes... all those characters, save maybe Aurora, are indeed X-Men... just not "1st String" X-Men... most of them were there to be part of the team before Secret Invasion, they just weren't the main focus of any books. Even some of the young ones have been focused on, such as Armor and Pixie, and I believe they create a precident for the ones in the background, such as Mercury and Prodigy, that shows that all former students still affiliated wth the team, have "graduated" to part of the team.

Furthermore, in the pages of Young X-Men, Cyclops just recently made it quite clear that Rockslide, Dust, Blindfold, etc, were all inducted into the X-Men fold. And then the book ended with Moonstar re-recruiting Anole. (I assume this would take place before Secret Invasion)

In any event, all I'm saying is... there's a new normal... for the X-Men as a team. And rather than ignore it, I think we should address it...

Maybe we could put a new sub-section in the list entitled "Manifest Destiney Recruits" similar to section currently in place for the Deadly Genesis recruits, and point out that they were all recruited during this era... This list would include all the recent "non-mainstream" recruits such as Boom-Boom, The Young X-Men, non X-Men members of X-Force such as Domino, Wolfsbane and X-23, most of the people who appeared in Secret Invasion, and anyone else who might list in and out of the background as it is or isn't convienient to the plot...

I think this would be a good compromise. That way, these members wouldn't be flat out ignored, but instead be listed in an informative manner, for anyone who might come to look at this article.

Also, I furthermore think we should change the main image from the 2006 Cast Illustration to this cover illustration from X-Men 500 (The one I mentioned earlier)...

http://creative.myspace.com/groups/_mcb/mycupojoe/week009/UNCX500_COVcolv5.jpg

The 2006 image, while a great illustration, is very out of date... being as it depicts Cable, Mystique, Sabretooth, Lady Mastermind, X-Factor & Several "New" X-Men. In short, many people whom are no longer currently members.

Not to mention, it depicts Cyclops without his powers... a condition he was only under very briefly toward the end of Joss Whedon's Astonishing X-Men run, and which he is currently no longer under.

The cover of #500 is a much more accurate group depiction of the current rosters. 76.16.57.78 (talk) 04:54, 29 September 2008 (UTC)

After reading the conclusion of Dark Avengers/Uncanny X-men: Utopia, it is clear that the X-men are now an army/nation. So now the team encompasses several who aren't included in the team list - Sunspot, Magik, Magma, X-23, Elixir, Anole, Ink, Greymalkin, Dust, Rockslide, Cipher, Surge, Mercury, Loa, Hellion, Domino, Onyxx, Bling, Nekra, Frenzy, Gentle, Trance, Match, Celeste Cuckoo, Mindee Cuckoo, Phoebe Cuckoo, Madison Jeffries, Ariel, Doctor Nemisis, Dr. Kavita Rao, Dr. Takiguchi, Danger, Husk, Cloak, Dagger, Namor, etc. should all be considered as members of the team. All these characters were seen fighting together against the Dark Avengers/X-men. Most of these characters were pictured when Pixie stated "Mr. Osborn, we are all X-men now." —Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.160.153.154 (talk) 04:48, 11 September 2009 (UTC)


 * I have to agree--after the events of "Manifest Destiny" and especially "Utopia," the X-Men is now pretty much everybody currently on an X-Team (other than X-Factor and the remaining few members of Osborn's X-Men)/on Utopia. It really doesn't get any more clear cut than Pixie saying that they're all X-Men now. Everybody in the books keeps referring to everybody else as X-Men, as do the recent volumes of the new Official Handbook of the Marvel Universe A to Z premiere hardcovers--for example, in the latest volume (9), the following people are listed as X-Men: Prodigy ("X-Men, formerly New X-Men, Xavier Institute, New Mutants training squad") and Rockslide ("X-Men, formerly New X-Men, Xavier Institute, Hellions training squad"). So at the VERY LEAST, if we're not going to be counting them as mainstream X-Men members, I think there should be some kind of "Manifest Destiny/Utopia Recruits" section, which would have to include all of the people listed in the above comment, as well as Match, Gambit, and Rogue, probably (and over time, I wouldn't be surprised to see characters like Omega Sentinel, Random, Amelia Voght, Adam X, Lorelei, Meld, Avalanche, etc., added to the list). What does everyone else think? DeadpoolRP —Preceding undated comment added 03:45, 14 September 2009 (UTC).

In addition, in New Mutants #5 (9/30/09), Cyclops mentions that "Sam submitted a permanent team roster for his group of X-Men." Sam (Cannonball) leads the "New Mutants" team (whose name is unofficial), and includes Dani Moonstar, Sunspot, Magik, Magma, and Karma). They should all be considered official X-Men at this point.  Who makes this decision, anyway?  --Trebligoniqua (talk) 19:46, 1 October 2009 (UTC)—Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.225.142.56 (talk) 19:43, 1 October 2009 (UTC)


 * No offense intended, but I find Tomahawk1221's edit summary comment from yesterday, "Trance and Blindfold are not official members, sorry," rather humorous. I think what he really meant, unless he's a writer or editor over at Marvel and we don't know about it, was "Sorry, but I personally don't believe that Trance and Blindfold are official members." I think it's pretty clear that Trance and Blindfold (and a ton of other characters) now ARE official members, but I'm willing to wait to add them to the list until it's made clear in the comics or handbooks exactly what their status is. On the other hand, it's been made QUITE clear in the comics that the members of the New Mutants are now considered official X-Men, so I'll be adding them to the list (and adding Warlock and Cypher to the New Mutants list) in the near future unless someone else does it first. Any other thoughts on the matter? DeadpoolRP —Preceding undated comment added 16:48, 14 February 2010 (UTC).


 * Well, it looks like we now have official word from Marvel--and it looks like Trance and Blindfold ARE official members! From Official Index to the Marvel Universe #13 (the indicia just says "First printing in 2010," but I believe it came out in January), in the "Note" section at the end of the entry for Uncanny X-Men #500 (I'd give a page number, but for whatever reason, the book doesn't have any): "When the X-Men re-form following their dissolution in X[-Men] #207, '08, their structure is much looser: although the 'core group' of team members remain, others now routinely come and go on an as-needed basis: students, former allies and acquaintances, all offered sanctuary in San Francisco, briefly join or aid the team on specific missions--and all are considered 'X-Men.' For the Index's purposes, however, we will only list the core group as feature characters, and the rotating cast will be listed as supporting characters." So, here are the supporting characters listed for each of the issues indexed, starting with that issue (I'll only list characters the first time they're listed):


 * Uncanny X-Men #500: Cannonball, Dazzler, Pixie, Storm (all already on the members list)
 * Uncanny X-Men #501: Karma (already on list)
 * Uncanny X-Men #503: Dani Moonstar (already on list)
 * Uncanny X-Men #504: Dr. Nemesis (not on list yet)
 * Uncanny X-Men #505: X-23 (not on list yet); Armor (already on list); Madison Jeffries (not on list yet)
 * Uncanny X-Men #506: Anole, Stepford Cuckoos (none on list yet); Warpath (already on list); Yuriko Takiguchi (not on list yet)
 * Uncanny X-Men #508: Domino (not on list yet); Hepzibah, Psylocke (both already on list); Kavita Rao (not on list yet)
 * Uncanny X-Men #509: Gentle, Hellion, Blindfold, Loa, Sunspot, Surge, Dust, Rockslide (none on list yet)
 * Uncanny X-Men #510: Elixir (not on list yet)
 * Dark Avengers/Uncanny X-Men: Utopia: Bling!, Match (neither on list yet); Professor X (already on list); Mercury, Trance, Glob Herman, Onyxx, Magma, Magik, Cipher, Graymalkin, Ink (none on list yet); but NOT Adam-X, Lorelei, Meld, Nekra, Skein, Joanna Cargill, Rhapsody, Toad, Erg, Litterbug (all listed as "Other Characters" instead of "Supporting Characters")
 * Uncanny X-Men #513: NOT Avalanche ("Other Characters")
 * Dark Avengers/Uncanny X-Men: Exodus: Boom-Boom, Prodigy (neither on list yet); Husk (already on list)


 * Now, while I might not completely agree with a couple of the distinctions made (Nekra and Joanna Cargill seem to clearly meet the requirements to be considered X-Men in their defense of Utopia in the Exodus one-shot), I think this outlines how we should define X-Men membership at present. I also think there are several other characters who've met these requirements in other titles: Danger, Ariel, and Indra in X-Men Legacy (but probably not Dragoness); Wolfsbane, Vanisher, Diamond Lil, and possibly Meld in X-Force; Warlock and Cypher in New Mutants; Wolf Cub in Young X-Men; possibly No-Girl and Ernst in Nation X (but probably not Bliss or Stinger--and not Sack in the Psylocke miniseries); Deadpool (who was a probationary X-Man, at the very least) in his own book and X-Force Annual #1; and Fantomex and possibly Crosta in Uncanny X-Men.


 * The big question for me is what to put in the "Joined in" section for these characters. I could just put the issues listed above for each character, but that might not be super accurate in some cases. For example, the members of the X-Force, Young X-Men, and New Mutants squads would probably be better listed as joining in their own titles. So, that's what I would suggest, but I'm open to other thoughts/suggestions. DeadpoolRP (Oops! Sorry, didn't realize I wasn't signed in.) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.166.98.66 (talk) 07:53, 7 March 2010 (UTC)


 * Okay, since no one argued against it, I've added the New Mutants squad members to the official X-Men list, as I mentioned I eventually would about a month ago. And I did a quick revision of everything but the Xavier Institute Students section at the end of the list. My next project (whenever I can get to it) is going to be adding the X-Force, Young X-Men, and X-Club squad members to the main list, for the reasons I've outlined above. So please comment here if you disagree or have any thoughts on the matter (because I like to give others a chance to comment if they disagree). Next will come the various former New X-Men members and other "recent recruits" (Cuckoos, Boom-Boom, Trance, Onyxx, Bling!, etc.) due to the team's current status quo, though for those ones it's going to be a bit more time consuming to figure out which issues they "joined" (or were first active) in. But hopefully by then we'll have more membership clarification in volume 13 of the new OHotMU hardcovers. DeadpoolRP (talk) 10:56, 15 March 2010 (UTC)

DeadpoolRP, you found it humorous? It's not opinion, it's fact. Your proposal to add all these periphery players will make this article useless, idiotic, and YOUR PREFERENCE. Again, thanks so much for enlightening us. Please re-read your proposal and rationale/criteria for adding the numerous characters, Then, for all of our sakes, look at the actual list of members. See a difference? when were these periphery characters active, "joined"? (what a joke).. To take the initiative of adding x-force, new mutants, young x-men, and x-club to the main list is horribly tragic. Tomahawk1221 (talk) 04:42, 17 March 2010 (UTC) To say (blank) and (blank) clearly qualify, but probably not (blank) and possibly (blank), all based on one Pixie quote, is speculation at best. Also, Fraction is a dolt. This part is actually my opinion or a compromise if you will: Make a Utopia Recruits sub-section... —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.176.44.57 (talk) 17:45, 18 March 2010 (UTC)


 * Okay, that was actually my thought for a compromise as well, Tomahawk1221. (That was actually you who made those changes to your original post, right? Whoever it was wasn't signed in, so I wasn't sure.) A few other people have suggested this before, and it seems like a a good way to keep both sides of the argument happy until we get more info from Marvel. However, I would suggest calling the subsection "Manifest Destiny/Utopia Recruits" (or possibly just "Manifest Destiny Recruits"), since it was around the move to San Francisco (not just Utopia) that the status quo change began. I would also suggest that, in order to keep the list from getting longer than necessary, only new recruits who have never been official X-Men before be added to the list, while returning members (Dazzler, Cannonball, Moonstar, Psylocke, Husk, Magneto, etc.) just have their status turned back to active/current. If no one else starts it before I do, I'll go ahead and add the subsection tomorrow (though I'd appreciate as much help as I can get from others, especially regarding "Active in" issue numbers, etc.), and I'll be putting it right above the X-Club section. And I'll leave the X-Club members off of the list since they have their own subsection. However, the current Official Handbook of the Marvel Universe hardcovers have been doing a pretty good job of including info about X-Men substitutes teams (labeling people as only Muir Island X-Men, etc.), so if volume 13 comes out and includes separate sections for the substitute teams but includes the Manifest Destiny/Utopia recruits in the main list, we'll have to bring this topic up for discussion again! Thanks for the compromise suggestion, and I'll get working on it as soon as I can. DeadpoolRP (talk) 02:01, 21 March 2010 (UTC)


 * All right, I put up the Manifest Destiny recruits section, and (despite a bit of an initial browser-crash mishap) it looks pretty good. I did a lot of checking as far as "Active in" issues go, but if anyone has any that they think should be (or even just might need to be) changed, let me know! Also, it's been a long time since I read X-Men: Manifest Destiny, but based on the summaries I just read online, most of the stories didn't seem to fit the "Active in" section. (They were mostly "down-time" stories, etc.) But if you think we should use any of them, let me know that too. Oh, and I did a bit more of the much-needed copy edit for this page . . . DeadpoolRP (talk) 10:40, 22 March 2010 (UTC)

DeadpoolRP, Beautiful...I (obviously) think this route is the most appropriate and you did a good job. It would be incorrect for the X-Men "Members" from 1963-2008 to have 60+, to adding 40+, or membership jumping 70% due to one story-arc. In short, thanks for the compromise.Tomahawk1221 (talk) 23:07, 22 March 2010 (UTC)


 * Hey, glad you like it and that we were able to come to an amicable resolution to the whole thing. I'd love to get feedback from everyone else, and let me know if I missed anybody! DeadpoolRP (talk) 16:48, 23 March 2010 (UTC)

Holy Redundancy!! RP, the "x-men-in-training" and "x-men strike team (x-force)" are over-the-top redundant. I think it's easy to infer that any combination of new/young x-men are "in-training", maybe taking the handbook too literally. In the case of X-Force, it's just listed twice, with the exception of cyclops, over-complicating "technicalities".Tomahawk1221 (talk) 18:35, 18 April 2010 (UTC)


 * The point is that while we here on Wikipedia have been considering X-Force and the New X-Men/Young X-Men an "X-Men Splinter Group" and "Xavier Institute Students Squads," respectively, Marvel has now revealed that they instead consider them official X-Men sub-groups, so I've put them in the appropriate spots. All of this information is coming from volume 13 of Marvel's Official Handbook of the Marvel Universe A to Z hardcover series, so if you haven't already read my section below called "Official Handbook of the Marvel Universe A to Z Hardcover, Vol. 13," please read that and let me know what you think.


 * So, while I'm not positive, I'm going to take your comment as agreeing with my suggestion below to delete the current X-Force squad from the "X-Men Splinter Groups" section, which I'll do now, as well as deleting the New X-Men and Young X-Men sections (though I'm going to wait a bit longer on that one to give people more time to propose ideas of how to handle the change). I'm basically just trying to avoid revert wars and/or deleting anybody's baby/pet project without giving them a chance to speak up about it first. Isn't that common courtesy? DeadpoolRP (talk) 22:08, 18 April 2010 (UTC)


 * With reference to those who have doubted the claim that anyone who joins the X-Men in defending Utopia is considered an X-Man, check out http://www.comicbookresources.com/prev_img.php?pid=5448&pg=6 Cyclops tells the other Utopia residents, including Bling, Erg, Outlaw, Random, Litterbug, Neophyte, etc, as he rallies them to face the incoming threat from the Nimrods, "Today we are all combatants. You are all X-Men." 86.139.191.179 (talk) 22:08, 12 June 2010 (UTC)


 * Nice find. The issue hasn't come out yet, however, so we obviously can't add these people to the list yet (so please don't, everyone!), and we'll need to decide where to put them once the issue does come out (a new sub-team section, maybe?). But I am curious to see if we can figure out who everyone in that scene is. On page five (the previous page) we have what looks like Stinger, Neophyte (I assume you're right about this one, though I'm not sure), Random, Frenzy (or possibly Cecilia Reyes?), Leech, Erg, and Outlaw. Then on page six we have Bling!, Litterbug, and three (or four?) people I'm not sure about. I'm wondering if the girl with the black hair is supposed to be Mortis, but I wouldn't expect her to be out of her induced coma--or to have Xs on her boots--though I guess it's possible. (And there might even be two different black-haired girls, since there are outfit differences between the two pictures on this page.) Not enough of the two men next to Litterbug is shown for me to be able to tell who they are. Maybe Neal Shaara (who was in San Francisco) and Toad (are those his goggles around his neck?)? We'll have to hope that the issue will clear everything up (and let us know who everyone is) once it comes out. Also, it's always possible that some of these characters won't accept the call to battle and become X-Men, which is another reason not to add them yet. DeadpoolRP (talk) 00:02, 13 June 2010 (UTC)