Talk:List of alumni of Jesuit educational institutions

Vfd
On 21 Mar 2005, this article was nominated for deletion. The result was keep. See Votes for deletion/Jesuits alumni for a record of the discussion. &mdash;Korath (Talk) 00:20, Mar 27, 2005 (UTC)

Recategorisation
Removed the general categories Roman Catholic Church and Education in favour of Jesuit Education which can be traced to both.

Goebbels
Anonymous post added Goebbels as Alumnus of Kerkrade Jesuit Seminary (Netherlands). I have serious doubts about this. As this could be politacally motivated, I removed the entry. If it would be correct, please justify here with reference to source material.

--Xaviervd 14:20, 7 July 2006 (UTC)

Confirmed that Kerkrade never had a Jesuit Seminary.

--Xaviervd 11:24, 11 July 2006 (UTC)

Awfulness
Thsi article was an awful mess of entries written in different styles, and mostly missing citation of nationality, not to speak when writing things such "NBA hall of fame" without further explanations. What is NBA? Do you think all people around the world can known it at first glance? Further work to standardize needed --Attilios 23:51, 30 April 2007 (UTC)

not awful
totally disagree on the 'awfulness'. The entries are, for the most part, quite clear. 'NBA' can easily be linked to the wikipedia entry on the NBA, which should satisfactorily deal with the concerns above. Besides, presumably one wouldn't want to spend a lot of time on this list reading an explanation of all the various associations. Overall, this list is at least a fascinating wikipedia entry and for some, a tremendous resource —Preceding unsigned comment added by 195.83.178.10 (talk) 07:28, 6 December 2007 (UTC)

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Requested move 22 May 2020

 * The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion. 

The result of the move request was: Not moved  buidhe 14:49, 5 June 2020 (UTC)

List of alumni of Jesuit educational institutions → List of graduates of Jesuit educational institutions – Since there is some confusion over whether alumni have necessarily graduated the institution, and recent editors have insisted that graduation is a requirement, then let's make the scope of this article clearer in its name. Elizium23 (talk) 16:21, 22 May 2020 (UTC) —Relisting. BD2412  T 03:59, 27 May 2020 (UTC)


 * Support: I checked a few English dictionaries which all stated that an alumnus is a graduate. However: checking a couple of American dictionaries enlarged the scope to include attendees. This would therefore appear to be an WP:ENGVAR issue. Having said that: Renaming the article to avoid the language difference and any confusion must always be a good move especially in an article with global scope. The article lede will require tweaking to match. 86.164.109.84 (talk) 16:59, 22 May 2020 (UTC)
 * Support - A good idea; list will then need to be culled. Beyond My Ken (talk) 18:14, 22 May 2020 (UTC)
 * Neither Support nor Oppose, but a Comment: Some of the people on this list did not graduate. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Shoebringer (talk • contribs) 19:24, 22 May 2020 (UTC)
 * Oppose on the basis of WP:TITLECON. See: List of alumni vs. List of graduates. "Alumni" implies graduation already, IMO. Jdcompguy (talk) 20:52, 22 May 2020 (UTC)
 * Yes, I thought so too, but please do read from dictionaries of American English, which say otherwise. Beyond My Ken (talk) 21:52, 22 May 2020 (UTC)
 * I'm withdrawing my oppose vote, as it appears that "alumni" and "graduates" mean different things. Jdcompguy (talk) 22:35, 22 May 2020 (UTC)
 * Oppose I am opposed to limiting the scope to only graduates. "Alumnus" is commonly understood to mean any former attendee, regardless of whether the person has formally graduated. WP:ALUMNI uses attendance as the criterion for inclusion, as do alumni categories. (Regarding other potential issues, this discussion ended in consensus not to classify a particular current student as an alumna; I don't know what the convention is for people who died while enrolled in school, but would lean toward inclusion.) Cheers, gnu 57 21:20, 22 May 2020 (UTC)
 * If the consensus here is to keep "alumni" in the title and to list both graduates and attendees, I suggest that the list in that case be broken up into two parts, one for graduates, and the other for those who attended but did not graduate. Beyond My Ken (talk) 21:53, 22 May 2020 (UTC)
 * I agree with you Beyond My Ken, I think the list should include both alumni and graduates. Also, whatever the dictionaries say, both of the colleges I attended list non-graduates as "alumni" in their alumni magazines. Shoebringer (talk) 23:50, 22 May 2020 (UTC)
 * Okay, that could work. Two considerations, though, are that (1) some Jesuit institutions are primary or secondary schools, for which graduation status matters less, and (2) some people attended/graduated from multiple Jesuit institutions; so someone who, say, graduated from Fordham Prep as a boy and was expelled from the Fordham University School of Law later in life would technically belong in both parts of the list.Other alumni lists I've seen (both the stand-alone type and the ones at the foot of school articles) occasionally mention irregular circumstances in-text, e.g., "Jones attended for two terms as a foreign exchange student", "Smith was expelled in her third year". (For real examples, see the entry for Walt Disney in Kansas City Art Institute; for Attila József in List of University of Szeged people; and for Joshua Leakey in List of University of Kent people.) Cheers, gnu 57 21:00, 24 May 2020 (UTC)


 * The issue here appears to be one of scope as much as one of title. An RM discussion is not the most appropriate means to delineate the scope of an article. I would suggest settling that issue separately, and prior to a title determination being made. BD2412  T 04:01, 27 May 2020 (UTC)
 * I was led to believe by the IP who reverted me that this was a settled issue and that "alumni" means "graduates". This has implications for many, many other articles besides this one. Elizium23 (talk) 05:36, 27 May 2020 (UTC)
 * Oppose The standard for these lists is alumni without limiting them to those who formally completed education and passed out. This also avoids the problem that many individuals' precise status is not easily recorded and also that many institutions are not set up in such a way that one actually "graduates" from them - not all schools have "graduation" and many higher education bodies have degrees conferred as part of a wider federation and/or an accrediting institution. Limiting a list to just "graduates" serves no purpose. Timrollpickering (talk) 13:51, 27 May 2020 (UTC)
 * Oppose. Not an ENGVAR issue. An alumnus is commonly understood as someone who attended an institution in all varieties of English and graduation should not be a requirement for inclusion. -- Necrothesp (talk) 15:10, 27 May 2020 (UTC)


 * The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Verifiability problem
This article has a serious verifiability problem. There are currently 4 references supplied, and the list, by my count, includes 549 people. A good number of them are still living. So there is less than 1% coverage of reliable sources. In order to verify each one of these entries, someone would need to search sources for the name and terms such as "graduated" "attended" "alumn(us|i|ae)", and then cross-reference the names of any schools mentioned against, e.g. List of Jesuit educational institutions, which has just shy of 800 entries listed. Only then could that source be cited and that entry retained in this list. So, I am inclined to solicit for people who would be inclined to take on this project. Elizium23 (talk) 04:14, 17 June 2021 (UTC)