Talk:List of animals culled in zoos

Scope of the list
The scope of this list need clarification due to confusion about terms such as "culling" and "euthanasia". I propose this confusion is avoided by moving the article to either (a) List of animals intentionally killed in zoos or (b) List of animals killed in zoos by humans. Other suggestions are welcome. DrChrissy (talk) 20:17, 31 May 2016 (UTC)
 * There is no confusion about either of those words. You were just wrong. If you want a new list then start a new list no reason to change this one. 2601:645:C201:3B60:9CBF:4B3E:59E7:9578 (talk) 15:25, 1 June 2016 (UTC)
 * If there is no confusion about the terms, then why did you revert my inclusion of Harambe (the gorilla recently shot because a child fell into his enclosure) from the table?
 * Animal euthanasia is defined as Animal euthanasia (euthanasia from Greek: εὐθανασία; "good death") is the act of putting an animal to death or allowing it to die as by withholding extreme medical measures. Harambe was clearly "put to death", i.e. he was euthanised.
 * Culling is defined as In biology, culling is the process of segregating organisms from a group according to desired or undesired characteristics. It goes on further to state For livestock and wildlife, culling often refers to the act of killing removed animals. When the child fell into the enclosure, there were 2 female gorillas also present in the enclosure.  The females were segregated prior to Harambe being shot.  Harambe was culled.
 * DrChrissy (talk) 17:50, 1 June 2016 (UTC)
 * Talk about synth to get the definition you want. No Harambe was not 'culled'. He was killed on short notice in order to protect the child. Even where animals with life-threatening illness' are culled, the decision is not taken in 3 or 4 minutes. It is a long and engaged process. If your objection is that the euthanised animals are not culled either, remove them from the list. Only in death does duty end (talk) 07:50, 3 June 2016 (UTC)
 * Do you agree that Harambe was "put to death", i.e. euthanised? DrChrissy (talk) 20:25, 3 June 2016 (UTC)
 * This is quickly looking like playing silly buggers but I will give it one more try. As should be obvious to anyone the females were being kept away for the sake of the child not to keep them away from Harambe.   Certainly it was not due to any characteristic of Harambe.  That is obvious.  In the interest of not wasting anymore time let me ask you a question.  Do you have any sources calling what happened a cull?  If not then we are done here. 2601:645:C201:3B60:EC00:5A4D:9083:30FA (talk) 19:04, 4 June 2016 (UTC)
 * First, let me say I do not like it when you call my edits "playing silly buggers". This is incivil.  Please stop it. The introduction of the table is "The following is a list of animals that have been culled and euthanised in zoos and wildlife (safari) parks." Harambe was shot with a gun - he was euthanised - and therefore should be included on the list. DrChrissy (talk) 19:49, 4 June 2016 (UTC)
 * So then no sourcing that harambe was either culled or euthanised? Like I said done here. 2600:1010:B024:B835:68F5:B699:2A7E:BDD3 (talk) 00:07, 6 June 2016 (UTC)
 * As I have already indicated above, "euthanasia" means "to be put to death". There are many reports that Harambe was put to death (sorry for stating the obvious) which means he was euthanised.  Do you have any sources to the contrary? DrChrissy (talk) 15:47, 6 June 2016 (UTC)
 * When you get a source that uses either euthanised or culled then we can continue this. Until then we are just wasting time, though for the record I reject your original research as being wholly accurate. 2601:645:C201:3B60:48F7:6B55:B558:B04D (talk) 13:13, 8 June 2016 (UTC)
 * Stop being pedantic. We don't need a source that uses the exact words. Those words are just place holders for the title of the article and not meant to limit it to only cases where those exact words are used. We can include any incident we want so long as there is consensus for it.  --  Green  C  13:28, 8 June 2016 (UTC)

Focus and POV

 * 1) Most animals in zoos are euthanized/culled. Some may die of natural death, but most get old and diseased and caretakers put them down. Just like cats and dogs pets. So the list is going to be nearly as long as every animal in every zoo in every country of the world - they all die eventually.
 * 2) Zoos are just one place animals are held in captivity and culled/euthanized.

Needs a more meaningful scope. If Zoos are the focus - some reason provided. If an animal is to be included in the list, some rationale and not just any and all animals. -- Green  C  17:46, 5 June 2016 (UTC)
 * Thanks Green. I think you have very clearly summarised some of the problems here.  I started the list mainly as a response to the culling of Marius (giraffe) and doing a bit of research on other culling in zoos.  (By the way, I'm not a zoo-hater.) However, I'm feeling it has lost its rationale for including animals other than "it has been reported that animal X was killed in Zoo Y", and this has become complicated by different interpretations of the terms used.  So I am genuinely looking for feedback on this.  I very much take the point that many animals are killed in zoos - for example, hen chicks are fed to many animals, but I would not include these on the list.  Live mice are fed to fussy-eating reptilians, but I would not include the mice on the list. DrChrissy (talk) 18:08, 5 June 2016 (UTC)
 * The article could very easily become a sounding board for anti-zoo movement. Some ideas include requirement for sourcing that is national or international in scope, not local news. Require multiple sources. The lead section criteria might include something about "unusual" and/or "controversial" circumstances, the exact meaning doesn't matter but can be used to remove run of the mill deaths. --  Green  C  18:35, 5 June 2016 (UTC)

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