Talk:List of best-selling girl groups/Archive 2

Girls' Generation nationality edited
==Best-selling girl groups==

Tung4605041 (talk) 17:03, 22 November 2013 (UTC)

Not done: please make your request in a "change X to Y" format. Presenting what you want the table to look like after the edits makes it difficult to see what you are asking to have changed. Thanks, Celestra (talk) 19:36, 22 November 2013 (UTC)

Edit request on 12 December 2013
21. 2ne1 souldnt be on this list, whoever included them was trolling


 * Red information icon with gradient background.svg Not done: There's a reference included which puts them on this list. If you have any civil and constructive explanations to voice, please do so. -- El Hef  ( Meep? ) 21:53, 12 December 2013 (UTC)


 * Red information icon with gradient background.svg Not done: When it comes to physical sales 2ne1 didn't even sell 1 million. They are under 1 million.

Digital Download ??
Girls' Generation and 2NE1 are on the list?? From their references, their sales are digital download. but another groups on the list don't count it. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 171.101.164.213 (talk) 11:58, 13 December 2013 (UTC)


 * That's mostly because the other groups are older and most of their sales were on physical formats. When I added those two artists, I made sure that the totals for some recent artists like the Pussycat Dolls and Girls Aloud included both albums and (digital) singles.
 * Digital downloads are singles, they're just the newest format.-- Mαuri ’96 “  everything and nothing always haunts me…  ” 20:10, 13 December 2013 (UTC)

Girls' Generation, KARA, and Morning Musume
Girls' Generation AND KARA need to be removed off the list. They've only sold like 3-5 million physical copies. It's wrong to have them on here.

Morning Musume's numbers are a bit too high, they've actually sold 18 million copies of their singles and albums.


 * Please read the above discussion. No one has set in stone that, when it comes to who's sold more music, musical artists' success should only be measured by physical albums+singles. In this day and age, downloads are becoming increasingly popular and indicative of musicians/groups' success.


 * For example, if only records sold on vinyl formats (12" LP's, 7", 10" and 12" singles and EP's) were counted on the list of best-selling music artists, artists such as Mariah Carey, Eminem, Britney Spears, the Spice Girls, B'z, Beyoncé, Taylor Swift, and Lady Gaga, among many others, would be unable to make the list as they have begun their careers after the advent of CD's, cassettes, and in some cases, digital downloads.


 * Returning to the issue at hand, it has actually been shown that the percent of total music sales revenue from physical sales is an has been steadily decreasing during the past decade. Therefore, in today's music market, selling music on physical formats is becoming less and less of a defining metric for gauging a given artist's success. (i.e. Who cares how many cassettes, sheet music, or 7" singles artists sell these days?).-- Mαuri ’96 “  everything and nothing always haunts me…  ” 08:39, 19 December 2013 (UTC)

Note at the Bottom
Can somebody delete the vandalism left at the bottom of the page by Marsoff2020? It's very offensive. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Clovertaill (talk • contribs) 03:46, 22 December 2013 (UTC)

Girls' Generation.
Hello.

Regarding Girls' Generation's presence on the list, the numbers listed are not correct.

I am unsure if the list provided is based on album sales alone or the inclusion of 'records', a seemingly controversial term on this particular page. Furthermore, is this physical only?

If based on album sales alone, Girls' Generation have sold - 3,947,718, making them not rank on the current list.

If based on physical sales only, Girls' Generation have sold - 5,490,227, once again preventing them from ranking on the current list.

If based on record sales of which digital sales are included, Girls' Generation have sold - 52,528,093, making them rank third on the current list.

The figure for all record sales should be used because from my estimation, the record sales provided, explicitly named 'record sales', are in fact the groups total sales, suggesting that singles should be used, regardless of their format. The figure for Girls' Generation's total record sales also does not include non-Japanese single digital sales or digital sales post-Paprazzi because non of these are available, Japanese digital album sales, nor does the figure include their Korean digital sales, pre-dating Gee. Furthermore, none of their US sales have been included bar that of The Boys and Twinkle, both of which have been confirmed by Billboard. I am working to obtain this figures in the meantime.

If you are looking to estimate, they have sold 65 million recordsItalic text.

The breakdown of all of their sales have been compiled here, by me, here. http://onehallyu.com/index.php?/topic/491-the-girls-generation-worldwide-sales-thread-updated-with-lovepeace-sales/

All figures have been obtained from Gaon, Oricon and Billboard. However, the physical sales for Into The New World (Physical Single) were obtained from Hanteo, the Gee digital sales obtained from Korean media articles regarding its success and Genie's sales are based on Gaon rankings, whereby it charted two positions higher than a 2NE1 track. YG confirmed the sales of the track (I can't remember which one, might have been I Don't Care) so given Genie outselling it, I used the sales number of the 2NE1 track, making its sales somewhat conservative. — Preceding unsigned comment added by KweenSooyoung (talk • contribs) 11:58, 6 January 2014 (UTC)

I might also add that if this is such an issue of contention, additional lists are created, one purely for physical sales, one for digital sales and one combining the two. — Preceding unsigned comment added by KweenSooyoung (talk • contribs) 12:04, 6 January 2014 (UTC)

Edit request - date formats
In order to fix some of the Category:CS1 errors: dates issues, could you please copy Draft:List of best-selling girl groups into the article (and uncomment the pp-semi-indef on the first line). Note that these changes will not remove this article from the category, as three references are listed with an ambiguous accessdate of "04-09-2009", and the first one was added in. Thanks! GoingBatty (talk) 13:35, 7 January 2014 (UTC)
 * Yes check.svg Done thank you. Callanecc (talk • contribs • logs) 14:34, 7 January 2014 (UTC)
 * User:GoingBatty would you like me to delete Draft:List of best-selling girl groups? Callanecc (talk • contribs • logs) 14:35, 7 January 2014 (UTC)
 * Yes - thank you! GoingBatty (talk) 15:31, 7 January 2014 (UTC)

Protected edit request on 14 January 2014
BabySoKa (talk) 18:00, 14 January 2014 (UTC)

Eternal
Eternal should be added to this list. According to www.kellebryan.co.uk, they sold in excess of 15 million albums. 150.237.199.247 (talk) 14:10, 24 August 2010 (UTC)Andy I agree Eternal should be on the this list. They sold at least 10 million records worldwide so should be between atomic kitten and all saints. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Markrob75 (talk • contribs) 00:54, 25 January 2014 (UTC)

What about t.A.T.u.?
Russian 'Lesbian Group' t.A.T.u to Perform at Sochi Winter Olympics Opening Ceremony The duo released six albums during their career – three in English and three in Russian - selling more than 15 million albums worldwide (ibtimes.co.uk). — Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.11.123.65 (talk) 17:27, 6 February 2014 (UTC)
 * They're a duo. Duos are different from groups in various ways, so it's arguable that duos aren't groups in the sense intended here. Herostratus (talk) 18:33, 6 February 2014 (UTC)

SNSD - incorrect sales.
First of all, I much prefer the arrangement whereby the composition of sales is clearly specified. Sales are sales and why should not discount them if there was a transaction of money or something that holds monetary value.

However, SNSD's sales are incorrect.

They have sold 5,634,852 physical records.

They have sold 45,556,449 digital records.

They have combined sales of 51,191,301. — Preceding unsigned comment added by KweenSooyoung (talk • contribs) 09:07, 24 February 2014 (UTC)


 * Yes check.svg Done: I also added Japanese digital single sales as certified by RIAJ, which increased the digital total to 48.4 million.-- Mαuri ’96 “  everything and nothing always haunts me…  ” 21:14, 24 February 2014 (UTC)

singolo piu' venduto
2.36.159.37 (talk) 13:32, 22 April 2014 (UTC)il singolo piu' venduto al mondo per un gruppo femminile è wannabe delle spice girls con 7 milioni‡
 * Red question icon with gradient background.svg Not done: it's not clear what changes you want made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format. Cannolis (talk) 18:42, 22 April 2014 (UTC)

Girl group S.H.E
Hey, I can't help but to notice Taiwanese girl group S.H.E is not on the list. They have sold more than 10 million physical studio albums (this is excluding compilations and live concert albums).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/S.H.E_discography#cite_note-7

They deserve to be on the list since they've sold more than some of the other girl groups listed.

Thanks. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Aslim7 (talk • contribs) 10:58, 28 May 2014 (UTC)


 * Yes check.svg Done: I must have read your mind. I found out about them while browsing the List of best-selling albums in Taiwan and have added them to the list.-- Mαuri ’96 “  everything and nothing always haunts me…  ” 06:31, 1 June 2014 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 10 September 2014
The digital sales of S.H.E. included download counts for ringtones, while it shouldn't be.

Alvincyt (talk) 06:48, 10 September 2014 (UTC)

Article not protected &mdash;72.244.200.230 (talk) 15:03, 11 September 2014 (UTC)

Physical vs Digital
These lists confuse me because they seem to mix physical and digital sales. Spice Girls' "Wannabe" is from the age of physical sales only (maybe a few digital ones in recent years), yet it's compared side-by-side on a list with Girls' Generation's "Gee", which is nearly all digital sales. It was (and is) hard to sell a million physical singles, but now is quite easy to sell a million digital copies. I think it's really comparing apples and oranges, and while it's not exactly original research, it very nearly is because it's directly comparing statistics that are not really equivalent. I'm sure this discussion's been held somewhere on Wikipedia before, in which case point me toward it and I'll yammer there. But I really think this practice decreases the quality of this article and is misleading in spirit, at least. :) Shinyang-i (talk) 04:52, 28 January 2015 (UTC)

Girls generation suddenly moves up
Can someone explain to me how SNSD suddenly Gained 17.1 million digital sales in a few days? And isn't the whole table mixed up? ( 2NE1 should be 2nd place) I undid the edit as it was false. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 151.225.94.185 (talk) 14:17, 8 February 2015 (UTC)

2NE1 is now the best-selling girl group digitally
Chris1439 (talk) 23:47, 14 May 2015 (UTC) Their is now way that Girls Generation has 38.8 million digital sales. 2NE1 has sold the most but Girls generation has sold around 46 million. Try to do better research before doing this things Hey, 2NE1 is now the best-selling Korean girl group. Someone, please update their sales. I can show you all the legit references if your want.

SNSD's total sales (Korean, Japanese, American; including digital singles, mini albums, full albums, repackaged full albums, promotional singles, live albums, collaborative albums, compilation albums, remix albums, maxi single, sub-unit mini album, solo songs, OSTs, and DVDs) 56,738,887+

2NE1's total digital sales (exluding Japanese singles and albums, Korean albums, live albums, and DVDs) 59,499,745+
 * Lolipop feat. Bigbang: 3,500,000+ (estimated)
 * Fire: 3,500,000+ (estimated)
 * I Don't Care: 4,700,000+ (estimated)
 * Albums tracks (Pretty Boy, In the Club, Let's Go Party, Stay Together): 3,000,000+ (estimated)
 * Kiss feat. CL: 1,700,000+ (estimated)
 * Please Don't Go: 700,000+ (estimated)
 * You & I: 4,483,364
 * Try To Follow Me: 1,703,377
 * Clap Your Hands: 1,841,485
 * Go Away: 2,444,933
 * Can't Nobody: 2,327,146
 * It Hurts: 1,770,787
 * Love is Ouch : 903,293
 * I'm Busy: 902,101
 * Don't Cry: 2,512,950
 * Lonely: 2,935,930
 * I Am the Best: 3,467,674 (4.5 million according to Forbes)
 * Hate You: 2,577,420
 * Ugly: 3,005,896
 * Don't Stop the Music: 470,684
 * I Love You: 2,777,520
 * The Baddest Female: 549,324
 * Falling in Love: 885,446
 * Do You Love Me?: 638,002
 * Missing You: 1,027,309
 * Crush: 457,589
 * Come Back Home: 1,165,665
 * Gotta Be You 868,741
 * If I Were You 739,025
 * Good to You 328,465
 * MTBD (CL solo) 548,025
 * Happy 340,013
 * Scream: 306,142
 * Baby I Miss You: 263,462
 * Come Back Home (Unplugged Ver.): 156,977

TOTAL: 59,499,745+ downloads — Preceding unsigned comment added by Kenethquinto (talk • contribs) 02:22, 27 August 2014 (UTC)


 * Yellow check.svg Partly done: We don't include solo or subgroup singles on the list, meaning we can't include "The Baddest Female".
 * Are you sure about Bom's "You & I" selling over 4 million downloads? I know many singles in 2009 were huge sellers, but 4.4 million seems a bit much for a promo single.-- Mαuri ’96 “  everything and nothing always haunts me…  ” 04:07, 30 August 2014 (UTC)

Platinum Australian Singles?
How come there is no list for singles that went platinum in Australia? There is platinum for Australian albums, and for the other countries, there's both singles and albums. Bbfan23 (talk) 18:19, 5 June 2015 (UTC)

Problems with this article
I don't mind the lists of best-selling singles/albums by girl groups in each country – these are usually verifiable from a single source, the official body of the record industry in that country (e.g. RIAA, BPI, etc.). The big problem is in the first two lists, attempting to create a list of the biggest-selling girl groups worldwide. Firstly, there are supposed to be separate tables for physical sales and digital sales, but in the case of, say, Little Mix it's impossible to say what percentage of their 7.5 million sales are physical or digital – those are the combined total sales of both formats. I'm sure this is true of some of the other groups in the list as well, particularly those that have been active in the 1990s and into the 21st century. So it makes no sense to try and split the sales into physical and digital lists, there should just be one overall list.

Secondly, there's no way of stating for certain that these are the 20 biggest selling girl groups, they are just the 20 we know about and have sales figures for. Japanese and Korean girl groups sell huge amounts of records in their home countries and in China, and I would not be surprised if many more of them have sold more than 10 million records. There are also other groups I think could well be included in this list – t.A.T.u., The Pointer Sisters and maybe The Three Degrees, off the top of my head. So trying to make a meaningful "definitive" list of the best-selling girl groups of all time is fraught with difficulties, and I'm not sure that this list should exist on Wikipedia. I see there was a discussion about the article in 2012, in which some of the same points were raised. Richard3120 (talk) 17:25, 5 July 2015 (UTC)
 * Edit: t.A.T.u. may not count as a girl group because they were a duo, but then that leads into another discussion as to whether a girl group requires three or more members to be included in these lists. Bananarama started out as a trio, but have been a duo for some time... do we only include their sales as a trio? Richard3120 (talk) 17:33, 5 July 2015 (UTC)

Disputed
The list of best-selling singles by girl groups in the United States is so incomplete it's ridiculous. The 2006 edition of the chart book British Hit Singles & Albums notes all the songs that have have sold a million in either the UK or in the US – apart from the 14(!) singles by The Supremes which sold a million copies or more in the US, there are also "When Will I See You Again" by The Three Degrees, "Fire" and "Slow Hand" by The Pointer Sisters, "Ain't 2 Proud 2 Beg" and "Baby-Baby-Baby" by TLC, and very probably many others. The list as it stands is heavily weighted towards songs from the 21st century because those are the ones that can be searched for on RIAA's Gold & Platinum database, but it makes a mockery of this list. To be blunt, what with the lack of citation for many of these sales figures in other countries like South Korea, the impossibility of separating physical and digital sales, and my concerns above regarding some obvious omissions from the all-time list, I'm not sure of the usefulness of any part of this article, or how it can be improved. Richard3120 (talk) 23:52, 30 July 2015 (UTC)
 * Update: I've updated the table of 'best-selling singles by girl groups in the United States' with all the million-sellers I can find, with references. I think one million sales is a reasonable cut-off point: there are already more than 50 songs in this list, cutting it off at a lower sales level would make the list ridiculously long. In addition, it will be very hard to compile a definitive list of records that have sold between 500,000 and one million copies – musch easier to find the information on million-sellers. Richard3120 (talk) 21:23, 4 August 2015 (UTC)

Spice Girls overstated?
Using the references given, the album Spice has ~30M worldwide and Spiceworld ~20M. Not sure where the extra millions come from. Btljs (talk) 22:05, 12 August 2015 (UTC)
 * as I've said above, there is a lot wrong with this whole article. I've tried to bring some order to the US and UK singles sales, but haven't checked the figures or references for the rest of the article. Richard3120 (talk) 22:15, 12 August 2015 (UTC)
 * Trouble is if the benchmark is one source then people naturally quote the one which gives the highest total. The WP page List of best-selling music artists has a source giving Spice Girls 75M, while finding just over 40M in a country by country search. The Spice Girls were lucky enough to be in a period when a lot of information is available; my gut feeling is that The Supremes are understated, given their phenomenal singles success in the 60s and 70s followed by decades of compilation sales. Btljs (talk) 06:49, 13 August 2015 (UTC)
 * I know, but finding any sales info for pre-1990s records is next to impossible. I am certain that the Pointer Sisters and the Bangles have sold more than 10 million records in the US alone, based on their RIAA certifications, and therefore should be included in the top 20 best-selling girl groups, but how you find a worldwide figures for record sales for them, no idea. Richard3120 (talk) 18:42, 13 August 2015 (UTC)

A MESS
The previous version of the best selling girl groups was better. Now. Especially the United States Single sales table is horrifying. Whoever edited this has spoiled the look of the article. Everyone. FIX THIS. You can't just put in the artist and the song and NOT put in the certification or sales numbers. If it's like this for the US then why isn't it the same for the other countries? I think the edits till the user Gnata (user inactive) were just fine. The edit Richard made was not necessary at all. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Katty368 (talk • contribs) 12:37, 20 August 2015 (UTC)
 * The lead paragraph in the US section answers your concerns surely? Due to the lack of complete sales figures before the 1990s, it is not possible to rank the best-selling singles by girl groups in the US in sales order. However, the following table lists those singles which have sold one million or more copies in the US, along with sales figures where known. You could put 1,000,000+ in all the sales boxes if you like, but you can't not include them just because other countries may not have historical information going back this far. If there is a reason to have a page called "Modern day popular girl groups" then please create it, but please don't airbrush the pre-internet world just because it was patchily recorded. Btljs (talk) 15:35, 20 August 2015 (UTC)
 * , how can the previous version be better when it was incorrect? We don't have the sales for singles prior to the 1990s, so there is absolutely no way of telling whether "Don't Cha" is the best-selling single by a girl group in the US or not... it might be, it might not, so the only fair thing is to list all the singles that have sold a million in the US. I agree, it SHOULD be the same for the other countries as well, but certifications and sales for countries outside the US and UK are very hard to come by pre-1990s. The objective should be to try and make the lists for other countries the same as the US and UK lists, not the other way around and make the US and UK lists less complete. If this can't be done, then there is a very strong case for the entire article to be deleted, I'm afraid. And yes, it is a mess – to me it is absurd to try and split singles sales into physical and digital sales lists... how can we possibly know what percentage of, say, the Spice Girls' sales are physical or digital sales? Richard3120 (talk) 18:51, 20 August 2015 (UTC)
 * Easy: walk into CEX or Thats Entertainment and count all the copies of Spiceworld that have been sold back to the shop;-P Btljs (talk) 21:40, 20 August 2015 (UTC)