Talk:List of best-selling music artists/Archive 26

Def Leppard
Harout, perhaps you still remember about this. Previously, they were listed with 65m-figures but since we've been raised the quality and the minimum claim sales in the list. Their name otomatically has been erase from the list.

Once again, i want to ask. Is it possible to put them with 100m-records figures by Los Angeles Daily News ? (http://www.dailynews.com/music/ci_20804782 )

Their certification sales units around 41m and their first charted record came in 1979, if we calculate with the minimum requirement sales, they could get the 100m claim.

Prove me please, if i'm wrong. Thanks Politsi (talk) 10:12, 12 January 2013 (UTC)
 * ✅ Although the 100 million is quite inflated based on their available certified sales, they meet our required percentage amount.--Harout72 (talk) 19:20, 12 January 2013 (UTC)

Depeche Mode
How come I can't find any data on Depeche Mode? According the wikipedia page they sold over 100M albums.
 * It all depends on their certified sales. Harout72 is probably the person to ask. To meet the claimed figure of 100 million records, they would need 27.98 million in certified sales. I highly suspect EMI have inflated the figures, although I could be mistaken. I have them at approximately 21.6 million certified units but I'd be happy to see what figures Harout has for them. Pyrophylaciorum (talk) 04:34, 13 January 2013 (UTC)
 * Yes, the 100 million is most definitely inflated by Depeche Mode's record company. As it's correctly pointed out by Pyrophylaciorum, DM would need their claimed figures supported by 27.9% certified sales, which translates into 27.9 million certified units. DM's available certified sales are only 24.5 million, (I can't open the uploaded word file for some reason posted above).--Harout72 (talk) 08:18, 13 January 2013 (UTC)
 * That's curious as it seems to be working for me. Never mind, Harout's figures are almost certainly more accurate than mine. Full disclosure: as a Depeche Mode fan, I can state that the figure of 75 million worldwide sales was generally used until around 2009, when EMI suddenly made the outlandish claim of 100 million. 24 million certified sales is enough to meet this more realistic (probably still inflated) figure. Should they be restored to the list at 75 million to 79 million? Pyrophylaciorum (talk) 16:37, 13 January 2013 (UTC)

Claims of up to 86 million can work for DM but only if the source claims Records (albums, singles, videos), not just albums. In the source you provided, the BBC uses the term albums, not records. So for a claim of 75 million albums only, they'd need 20.9 million in certified albums sales. Their available certified albums sales are 20.75 million. Hopefully, they will soon collect some more certifications for their album sales, so we can put them up on the list. In the meantime, if there is another reliable source with 75 million records, please let me know. BTW, I was finally able to look at your uploaded file. When in BPI's database, make sure to use the drop-down button (More info) as sometimes the highest award is not posted on top. That includes DM's albums Best of Vol.1 (Gold=100,000), Playing the Angel (Gold=100,000), The Singles 86-98 (Gold=100,000), Ultra (Gold=100,000), Songs of Faith and Devotion (Gold=100,000), Violator (Gold=100,000), The Singles 81-85 (Gold=100,000), Speak and Spell (Gold=100,000). The singles are all Silver=250,000 as released before 1989 (see BPI's earlier levels).--Harout72 (talk) 18:46, 13 January 2013 (UTC)
 * Of course. I should have recognised the difference between records and albums, my apologies. It is striking how the "100 million albums" meme has spread. I note that the press release for Best of Vol.1 refers to 72 million records but I can't find that repeated anywhere reliable. Pyrophylaciorum (talk) 19:36, 13 January 2013 (UTC)
 * On my file, I had a mistake of 500,000 units in the total of the German album certified sales. I had applied the correct levels to all albums but probably added them too quickly resulting in an incorrect total. The correct total for their overall certified albums is 20.75 million. I noticed my mistake when going over your file, thanks. Since they are only short by 170,000 units from the required certified album sales (20.92 million), I think we can put them up on the list with the BBC source that claims 75 million albums. The 170,000 units of gap should disappear sometime around March 2013, when they release their new album.--Harout72 (talk) 20:56, 13 January 2013 (UTC)
 * Excellent customer service for our anonymous, unsigned friend above. Thanks once again for your assistance. Pyrophylaciorum (talk) 00:47, 14 January 2013 (UTC)

Scorpions
I have found two sources that claim the Scorpions have sold 80 million records. They have 23,375% in certified sales and they need only 21,33%.

http://www.auto.de/magazin/showArticle/article/31434/The-Scorpions-Der-Volkswagen-Amarok-rockt (in German)

http://www.autozeitung.de/mit-den-scorpions-im-neuen-vw-amarok (in German) Ich901 (talk) 21:12, 12 January 2013 (UTC)
 * Actually Scorpions need 23.9% certified sales as they seem to have first charted in 1978 with their Tokyo Tapes. Scorpions have 18.7 million in certified sales which is 300,000 units short for 80 million claim (they need 19.12 million in certified units). Also the sources above aren't news services. Autozeitung is just an automobile related magazine, the other one the same.--Harout72 (talk) 21:44, 12 January 2013 (UTC)

Harout, What do you think about this source? (http://www.billboard.biz/bbbiz/content_display/genre/news/e3i265790c0e524ea2be89aaa5a2c471f33) I'm not sure this source is an official site from Billboard, inside they said Scorpions have sold 75m-records. Thanks Politsi (talk) 01:30, 14 January 2013 (UTC)
 * ✅ I inserted Scorpions with Billboard source. Billboard Biz is just a section in Billboard magazine, doesn't in any way change the reliability of the magazine.--Harout72 (talk) 04:48, 14 January 2013 (UTC)
 * Actually they charted first in 1977 with "Taken by Force" in Finnland but never mind. Ich901 (talk) 09:10, 14 January 2013 (UTC)
 * I can't verify the Finnish peak but most probably it's a non-existent peak, that's just been added by some fan. Yesterday I spent a great deal cleaning up the table of the Studio Table as it had dozens of incorrect and in some cases non-existent peaks.--Harout72 (talk) 16:09, 14 January 2013 (UTC)

Bob Dylan
Okay thanks, by the way you're not answer yet the source for 100m-claim figures for Bob Dylan, perhaps you didn't see then here it again (http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/arts/music/article3026317.ece). How about it? Politsi (talk) 05:16, 14 January 2013 (UTC)

Harout, are you still here? I Don't know perhaps you're so busy at the moment, i hope there's nothing wrong in my word above which make you hesitate to answer my question. thanks Politsi (talk) 01:34, 15 January 2013 (UTC)
 * ✅ Got it.--Harout72 (talk) 01:49, 15 January 2013 (UTC)

Foreigner
How about this rock band? could we bring them to 80m-list, because they look have a good certification sales units (nearly 46m).

One of The Daily Gazette articles (http://www.dailygazette.net/standard/ShowStoryTemplate.asp?Path=SCH/2012/07/11&ID=Ar01304&Section=Local_News) write and said them have sold 80m-records. Thanks Politsi (talk) 09:41, 12 January 2013 (UTC)
 * Note that the article states: Between him and Foreigner, they have sold over 80 million records. The mention of the 80 million claims should only be for the band Foreigner. But if there is another source claiming that figure, they surely could get on the list as they have enough certified sales.--Harout72 (talk) 19:20, 12 January 2013 (UTC)

But Harout, what if the source state of Albums and not Records? Like The Gadsden Times (http://www.gadsdentimes.com/article/20111216/ENT/111219880) which said they have sold nearly 80m-albums. Most of the reliable source only state about their previous sales figures (70m-records), are their certification sales albums only could cover to 80m-claim?

If you think my question is crap, please do not answer and just erase it. I give my permission on that, thanks Politsi (talk) 11:30, 15 January 2013 (UTC)
 * Is there really no other source that uses the term Records? Let me know if there is none.--Harout72 (talk) 02:19, 16 January 2013 (UTC)

None, believe me. Most of the source even said 70m-albums only. and this is the only source so far that i have found which claim 80m. Is this source reliable to use? thanks Politsi (talk) 04:45, 16 January 2013 (UTC)
 * ✅ The Gadsden Times is reliable.--Harout72 (talk) 05:20, 16 January 2013 (UTC)

LADY GAGA isn't on the LIST?
she has sold 25,000,000 albums abd 90,000,000 SINGLES surpassing rihanna and she isn't listed ? ? ? lol Fidel 11:37, 8 January 2013 (UTC) Fidel  11:37, 8 January 2013 (UTC)

Harout, need your help again. How many certification of this Lady so far? is it quite enough to support the 80m-claim?.

If yes then we could use the source from The Irish News (http://www.irishnews.com/news/gaga-brings-monster-of-a-world-tour-to-ireland-1190083) 15m albums and 65m singles. thanks Politsi (talk) 08:14, 16 January 2013 (UTC)
 * For 80 million, she needs 58.2 million in certified sales. She's got only 48.5 million. Once she releases her new album and singles from it, she'll collect the rest of the 10 million needed in some months. So don't delete this section, let it get archived, so I can come back to it and use this source once she has enough certified sales.--Harout72 (talk) 16:43, 16 January 2013 (UTC)

Eagles
Harout, i really need your opinion for this. This band have a very excellent certification units with nearly 124m. And It is look so tragic seeing their claim sales figures only 120m. For me, it is silly because that claim lower than their certification units.

I have found this source from Herald & Review (http://herald-review.com/entertainment/local/eagles-tribute-band-landing-at-kirkland/article_a8dcd506-08d0-11e2-82ac-001a4bcf887a.html)

If you read the article inside, it is said that they have sold nearly 150m-records. And they absolutely could get that claim figures, even more than that.

But i'm not sure Herald & Review is a Reliable Source. What do you think? thanks Politsi (talk) 11:32, 18 January 2013 (UTC)
 * ✅ While Herald & Review may not be as reliable as other prestigious news papers, it is okay to use.--Harout72 (talk) 16:38, 18 January 2013 (UTC)

Estimate Beatles
Shouldn't it be noted that the 1 billion claimed sales from the Beatles are only estimate? Ich901 (talk) 11:53, 19 January 2013 (UTC)

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB124760651612341407.html#

RIHANNA DID NOT SELL 100 MILLION RECORDS
If you read it CORRECTLY - the 'source' says that she has sold 25 million albums COLLECTIVELY through all five of her albums. Which means, that she has sold 75 million singles, and 25 million albums. combined does NOT mean records, and should not be added to the best selling music artists list.

QUOTE: "The plaque showcased each of her six albums, which have collectively sold more than 25 million worldwide." -http://www.bet.com/news/music/2012/11/09/rihanna-awarded-for-100-million-record-sales.html

MORE LINKS WITH TRUE FACTS SHE DID NOT SELL 100 MILLION RECORDS, only 25 MILLION + 75 million SINGLES. THOSE TWO TOGETHER DO NOT MEAN 100 MILLION RECORDS.

http://www.therichest.org/celebnetworth/celeb/singer/rihanna-net-worth/ http://www.bet.com/topics/r/rihanna.html http://www.thelocal.no/page/view/rihanna-to-headline-new-oslo-festival#.UPrmw6Uk_ww http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2012-11-19/entertainment/chi-rihanna-unapologetic-review-20121119_1_album-review-rihanna-chris-brown http://www.crazykelvin.com/aboutme/guyana.htm

http://wiki.answers.com/Q/How_many_albums_has_rihanna_sold

I've been trying to remove it with these facts and links, but keep getting denied. Why does Wikipedia have FAULSE information?????

If the page is adding the singles and record sales then there should be more artists with higher numbers....

Britney would have over 150 million sales Lady Gaga would have 100 million sales Black Eyed Peas would have 100 million sales Taylor Swift would have 100 million sales Adele would have 100 million sales Beyonce would have 150 million sales

etc. etc. etc.

Rihanna's addition to this page should be deleted, as she is not one of the best selling artists of all time. She has only sold 25 million records WORLDWIDE. and this list is for artist who have sold MORE THEN 75 MILLION ALBUMS WORLDWIDE.


 * This list is not for artists with album sales only. It is for albums, singles, videos, please read the lead part of the list carefully. Also, sign your comments. Now to answer your question, Rihanna's available Gold and Platinum awards surely support the 100 million records (singles, albums). Her certified sales are 16.6 million albums and over 69 million singles (including her Danish certified sales). That's a total of 86 million in certified sales. And certified sales are normally lower than actual sales, because it takes time for a lot of sold units get certified as record companies should submit a fee to get singles/albums/videos certified. So yes, she does deserve to be listed with a claimed figure of 100 million records.--Harout72 (talk) 18:48, 19 January 2013 (UTC)

Neil Diamond and Others
His claim figures source of 120m-sales is looks old (2005 & 2008), What if we change his claim figures from 120m to 160m-records by The Daily Telegraph? (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/music/rockandpopfeatures/9714553/Neil-Diamond-at-71-in-fashion-and-in-love.html) that source is really new. thanks Politsi (talk) 10:44, 19 January 2013 (UTC)
 * I thought we came to an understanding on further inflated sales figures. I just can't understand why you keep coming back to the same question again and again.--Harout72 (talk) 18:33, 19 January 2013 (UTC)

hehehe... do not mad for that Buddy, if you don't like it. Just answer NO!. That's it, and then i will erase that from this talk page. But if you feel agree with me, just answer DONE!. i think that's not waste your energy.

Like i said I wanted to re-new all the old claim figures source in this list, if i've seen the new claim figures from a very reliable source, i can not hold myself to asking you for that. thanks Politsi (talk) 00:53, 21 January 2013 (UTC)

Marilyn Manson Q
HI! Harout72, I have a question that keeps going to my mind and it's about Marilyn Manson worldwide sales, I know that there are some sources claiming that the band sold about 50 million records (http://www.blabbermouth.net/news.aspx?mode=Article&newsitemID=149002), though I also know that the figure of 50 million is highly inflated, but I just wanted to ask you if you're not to busy if you could tell me how many records has the band sold with the certifications he has please: (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marilyn_Manson_discography) This is the article

And besides the album sales by certification there are some sources that claim (even though I found much of this figures sales except for the ones noted, inflated or not real) that: Holy Wood; sold 9 million records Worldwide. (http://www.eagle-rock.com/artist/1B86CD/Marilyn+Manson)
 * Antichrist Superstar: sold 7 million records Worldwide and almost 1.9 million in the US. (http://blogs.ocweekly.com/heardmentality/2011/10/marilyn_mansons_antichrist_sup.php) & (http://www.reuters.com/article/2010/11/08/us-marilynmanson-idUSTRE6A71DA20101108)
 * The Golden Age of Grotesque; has yet to get the Gold certification by the RIAA. (new.music.yahoo.com/blogs/chart_watch/20401/chart-watch-extra-what-a-turkey-the-25-worst-selling-1-albums/)

Please if it's not much to ask nad if you have some time, it would be great if could tell me his albums (including singles and dvd's) sales, and in what numer of worlwide sales the band would stand, I think it might be 10 or 20 million. :)--Fallengrademan (talk) 19:05, 20 January 2013 (UTC)


 * Based on Marilyn Manson's certified sales (5,915,000), their actual sales should be in the neighborhood of 10-15 million maximum. As for the seven million units for album Antichrist Superstar claimed by OC Weekly, I honestly can't see how that album could've sold that much when the available certifications for that album support 1,335,000 only. Or the nine million units for album Holy Wood claimed by Eagle Rock Entertainment, when the certified sales for that album are only 575,000 units. Also, it's important to note that none of Marilyn Manson's albums have reached sales of one million+ units in the European continent.--Harout72 (talk) 03:14, 21 January 2013 (UTC)

Ozzy Osbourne
I think it's time to put his name in the list he has 30 million certified units and you can easliy put him in the list in 75 m.http://www.ozzy.com/us/biography  — Preceding unsigned comment added by Sabbathbloodness (talk • contribs) 11:47, 18 January 2013 (UTC)
 * We'd need a third party reliable source. You might want to go over Identifying reliable sources.--Harout72 (talk) 16:20, 18 January 2013 (UTC)

Harout, you're the one who is expert for this. Actually how many certification units of Osbourne only? and also how many certification units of Black Sabbath, i mean in separate way.

because if you read the article from RT (TV network)/(http://rt.com/news/prime-time/ozzy-scream-moscow/) it was said about 75m-records. I'm not sure this is refer to Osbourne or Black Sabbath?

And I'm not sure that source also could be accept to the list. Need you help. Thanks Politsi (talk) 10:19, 19 January 2013 (UTC)
 * RT (TV network) is not a news service, it's just a TV network. We want our figures to come from new services. But it seems to speak of sales of Ozzy Ozbourne as a solo artist. My quick glance at RIAA's certifications shows some 31.4 million in certified sales. That's good enough to get him on the list with 75 million if there is a news service claiming that figure.--Harout72 (talk) 19:03, 19 January 2013 (UTC)

I will try to finding it. Politsi (talk) 00:55, 21 January 2013 (UTC)

Alright then harout, how about this source (http://www.bbc.co.uk/6music/news/20070618_mojo.shtml) inside the article, it is stated about solo albums of Osbourne which claim to have sold 75m-albums, and not records. How about that? is his certification units albums could support the 75m-albums claim?Politsi (talk) 05:59, 21 January 2013 (UTC)


 * Note that the claim isn't coming directly from BBC, it's the work of Radio 6 music. I don't think it's a good idea to support a claimed figure with a radio station claim.--Harout72 (talk) 16:42, 21 January 2013 (UTC)

Shania Twain
Harout, personally if you could give me your opinion about her. Is it fair enough to put her with only 75m-records, while her certifications sales nearly 72m?.

For me, this is looks tragic. Actually how many certification sales of her albums only?. If could support 85m-claim, i think there's nothing wrong to use this source (http://www.nzherald.co.nz/entertainment/news/article.cfm?c_id=1501119&objectid=10433148) for her.

What do you think? thanks. Politsi (talk) 06:16, 21 January 2013 (UTC)
 * Actually out of the 71.5 million in certified sales that Twain has, only the 65 million is albums certified sales. Our current source is for albums also, 75 million albums, not records. Let's wait for Twain collect another five million in certified album sales, and I'll come back to this source and update her claimed album sales. Let this section get archived with your source, so I can find it later on.--Harout72 (talk) 00:22, 22 January 2013 (UTC)

Estimations of sales for top artists - Michael Jackson's claims singled out?
Why is there a note to discredit Jackson's (inflated) record sales claims while the far-fetched billion claims of The Beatles and Elvis are left as fact? The article cited in the "Note 2" where Adrian Strain cites several sources to estimate more realistic sales figures for Jackson also covers The Beatles with a realistic lower estimation as well as stating that Jackson's sales are second only to The Beatles, i.e. claiming he outsold Presley. If this article is to be used to add a note of realism to inflated sales, surely it should apply to all the artists it covers and not exclusively Jackson? Inflation of sales figures to promote back-catalogue sales should perhaps be a mini-section or note regarding its presence in several artists estimations, not just one. Mc8755 (talk) 16:51, 25 January 2013 (UTC)

No wonder you're very upset with the cutting of Jackson's sales figures, you are a Jackson's lover. Let's face it buddy, 400m-sales is more realistic than 750m-sales.

To be honest. I choose to believe the 1 billion figures of Beatles and Elvis rather than 750m-shit of Jackson's. Politsi (talk) 08:08, 27 January 2013 (UTC)


 * What you choose to believe is irrelevant. The article gives more accurate sales for Jackson and The Beatles, as well as stating Jackson outsold Presley. If it's to be noted in Jackson's sales, it should be noted for the other two artists. If you believe an artist has realistically sold a billion records you're retarded, especially one which has not a single album in the top sellers list. Mc8755 (talk) 11:51, 27 January 2013 (UTC)

Hey, take it easy please and use your attitude, no need to say someone retarded just because he believe the source figures that have been published by a very reliable source like TIME magazine. It is my right if i choose to believe they (Beatles and Elvis) have sold 1 billion, their music legacy have been spread all over the world, even the children who will be born on 2050 will know and would like them.

And this list seems been operating since two years ago, and if we remove of 1 billion figures would make this list better and more reliable. I will support 100% Politsi (talk) 11:18, 28 January 2013 (UTC)


 * Mc8755, I agree with you, neither The Beatles nor Elvis Presley couldn't have sold 1 billion records, at least their available certified units rule out that possibility. By the way, the insertion of the note for Jackson was the idea of another editor, Chrishanduars. That discussion can be found here. See my discussion below.--Harout72 (talk) 17:45, 27 January 2013 (UTC)
 * I've read through that discussion and it's partly hard to understand with the broken English, but I'm pretty sure it just serves to the endpoint of implementing the note about Jackson's then publicist being the apparent first recorded incidence of a 750 million record sale tally for MJ. I don't know if that's true, but even still, I don't see why this is so different to a record label claiming inflated sales and thus requiring its own note when other artists' sales aren't affected. It's just fairly illogical to me that the article used to reduce Jackson's sales reduces the Beatles' sales (by a far greater number!) and it's simply ignored? As you personally pointed out in that discussion, Jackson's certified sales coupled with a majority in reliable sources for total record sales make his total count eligible for 750 to remain as a potential figure (albeit perhaps with the 400m with reference underneath, similar to how Elvis' and The Beatles' sales are chronicled here). Again I think a common note beneath the higher selling artists to point out the reason for such broad ranges in total sales (600m - 1bn, 400m - 750m, etc) would suffice a more fair representation of inflated vs. realistic sales for all artists. Could this be considered for implementation? Mc8755 (talk) 22:55, 27 January 2013 (UTC)


 * Sorry for the delay in responding (and sorry for my bad english). @Mc8755: "Over 50% of the artists on the list haven't sold as much as claimed". The problem with Michael Jackson besides being (750 million) a figure inflated is a violation of a rule of Wikipedia: WP:ORIGINAL A rule nonnegotiable. Elvis Presley for example, is probably he has not sold 1 billion, but this reference of Washington Post (Obituary and from August 17, 1977) says: "Overall, he sold more than  500 million records worldwide  and made 33 films" and this is not a primary source of Wikipedia. Must be impartial in this case, I can get referrals (and reliable and in multiple languages​​) that Madonna has sold 400, 500 or 800 million records but is it realistic? Of course not; And this is that Madonna has more certifications Jackson. Regards, Chrishonduras (talk) 01:40, 28 January 2013 (UTC)


 * The case is fairly well resolved with the reduction of similarly massively inflated sales of Presley and The Beatles by Harout72. I genuinely don't believe Jackson sold 750 million records; I just wanted to point out that reducing his upper inflation number of 750 million while leaving the 1 billion levels for the two aforementioned artists didn't really correlate to fairness among the artists listed, illogically so when the sources used to point out a more realistic sales figure also demoted The Beatles' sales and regardless of when the first instance of the inflated value came from. I think the list is much more fair the way it's laid out now and far more realistic for all top sales figures (though I digress personally I genuinely don't see how Presley matches The Beatles' sales - but that's a debate for another day and one I don't envision participating in!) Mc8755 (talk) 15:55, 28 January 2013 (UTC)

We should keep the lowest available claimed figures
I added a small note: ''Note that this list uses claimed figures that are closer to artists' available certified sales. In other words, inflated claimed figures that will meet the required certified sales amount but unrealistically higher from available certified sales, will not be used''. This should bring more consistency to the list and help us use claimed sales that are more realistic. I also, removed the 1 billion claims for The Beatles and Presley. This note applies to outrageous figures only which are in disagreement with available certified sales. I think we can all agree with this.--Harout72 (talk) 17:45, 27 January 2013 (UTC)
 * My section above is rendered moot with this change to the article. As a whole, the article seems more realistic and fair to all of the top artists in my opinion. Mc8755 (talk) 23:01, 27 January 2013 (UTC)

Harout, Actually i've been saying that idea to you since two months ago and that's good. Politsi (talk) 11:21, 28 January 2013 (UTC)

Hong Kong
I think Hong Kong is another market available:


 * 1977-2008 (IFPI hk.org).


 * For foreign artists Platinum = 15 000 and Gold = 7 500.


 * Madonna ( 120 000 )


 * ABBA ( 97 500 )


 * Eagles ( 67 500 )


 * Bee Gees ( 60 000 )


 * Michael Jackson ( 52 500 )

Well, It is obvious that only Madonna exceeds the one hundred thousand units; other artists were only a comparison (Although also is Rod Stewart, Whitney Houston, Barbara Streisand, Phil Collins, Neil Diamond, U2..). Best regards, Chrishonduras (talk) 01:21, 29 January 2013 (UTC)


 * See this archived discussion on Hong Kong.--Harout72 (talk) 02:13, 29 January 2013 (UTC)

Okay, I understand. Regards, Chrishonduras (talk) 02:28, 29 January 2013 (UTC)

Elton John and Nana Mouskouri
Harout, i really need your opinion. Do we need to remove Elton from the 300m-list?. because seriously, most of the reliable source only claimed him have sold between 200m-250m. Unlike Madonna which have so many reliable sources which claim her 300m-sales.

And i just wondering, how many certification units sales of Nana Mouskouri? and how far could claim the million seller?

Need your help. thanks Politsi (talk) 06:13, 29 January 2013 (UTC)
 * Nana Mouskouri has only 5.4 million certified units, she has no chance for this list. I wouldn't worry too much about removing Elton John's 300 million as in that very section Jackson is list with even more inflated figure, with almost the same amount of certified sales. We want to concentrate on preventing further inflated sales figures from getting on the list.--Harout72 (talk) 07:01, 29 January 2013 (UTC)
 * Oh wait, Elton John's source for 300 million is no longer active. Isn't there another source that we can replace that with?--Harout72 (talk) 07:05, 29 January 2013 (UTC)

Wow, but why so many reliable source like Telegraph, Independent, The Age, BBC, and even CNN bravely said Mouskouri have sold 250-400m. That's silly for me.

About 300m-sales of John. NONE, believe me. like you see. I've been trying to re-new the claim figures source all artist in this list which is more new and reliable.

And i've been trying day by day seeing the new source for 300m sales of John, and NONE. that's the reason why i ask you, if we remove John from the 300m-list at least until we find the new source for that figures.

What do you think? Politsi (talk) 09:53, 29 January 2013 (UTC)
 * Removed the 300 million, and moved him one section down.--Harout72 (talk) 16:03, 29 January 2013 (UTC)

Sorry for the intromision. Harout72 I have a question by: " as in that very section Jackson is list with even more inflated figure, with almost the same amount of certified sales". It is point a very controversial, but, I think that is necesary put the 300 million records, because:


 * By Daily Telegraph


 * By Daily News and Analysis; author= Asian News International (ANI)


 * By Canoe.ca; author= Jam! and World Entertainment News Network

I think that although always it is an inflated figure, would have three numbers: 300, 350 and 400, so we let the people decide who they think and believe. What do you say?. I can add myself, but I need your opinion. Best regards, Chrishonduras (talk) 19:11, 29 January 2013 (UTC) P.S: Sorry for my bad English.


 * If I understand you correctly, you want to add a source that supports 300 million records? Well, all of your articles by The Telegraph, DNA, Jam! state He has sold more than 300 million records. Isn't that kind of already 350 million which we have?--Harout72 (talk) 01:10, 30 January 2013 (UTC)

Chris, what have you done to Jackson's sales figure in this list, is GOOD and no need to make the reader more confuse to add another claim figures, let's just around 350-400m sales.

Beside, we already agree that any inflated sales figures which is far away from the certification units will not use in this list, then you can remove the note about Michael Jackson's 750m sales figures from the list, to make this list more beautiful to see.

Hi, harout. I hope you're not forget about my question regarding with Marley sales below. thanks Politsi (talk) 01:33, 30 January 2013 (UTC)


 * Well I'll try to explain well (So sorry because my English is not very good :/). I already did. Thanks for your words, Politsi :) I try to do the best I can through my scope. I looked at the note added by Harout; and it seems that the sales note of MJ may be removed. But I did not, seeing cospiraciones / discussion forums as Prince.org, UKMIX, MJCommunity... etc, that They often come to defend their positions in Wikipedia. But If you think it is longer not necessary to include the note by MJ on their sales (750 millions), you can delete, but you should also ask Harout, about it. Best regards, Chrishonduras (talk) 19:31, 30 January 2013 (UTC)

Bob Marley
Harout, need your opinion. Rolling Stone (http://www.rollingstone.com/music/news/michael-jackson-elvis-presley-are-top-earning-dead-musicians-20121101) said that Marley have sold 75m-albums.

How many his certification sales and is it quite enough to support the 75m-albums and not records? and it seems this is the only prestigious source which said about 75m-figures of Marley. thanks Politsi (talk) 11:23, 29 January 2013 (UTC)
 * ✅ Got it.--Harout72 (talk) 00:40, 31 January 2013 (UTC)

Elvis Presley figure
Hi harout. Finally you give your response to my edit in this list...hehehe

Well, actually i'm still being confuse with the 500m-figures source of Elvis Presley which i've got from Washington Post (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/style/longterm/elvis/epobit.htm) but that's came in 1977, which is 35 years ago.

But, i try to inserted that figure and wait your response on it. And it was delete already, it's okay for me and i'm happy for it because it means you really maintain this list very well.

I've been re-new several sources of those figures in this list and updating the claim figures which is i feel need to do (such as Garth Brooks, Julio Iglesias and Neil Diamond) and i see there is no change from you, then i think you were agree with me.

For Elvis, personally i'm also doesn't agree any source which is so old, but i still feel need to find another lower figures (probably between 400-500m for Presley and Beatles).

But if you feel that would be not necessary. I will follow you. thanks Politsi (talk) 01:46, 31 January 2013 (UTC)

Is there any good reason to include images on this list?
I'm puzzled as to why this list includes images. I can't see that they serve any purpose, and the batch of pictures plopped into the top of each section looks random and sloppy. It's also confusing that there isn't an image for every artist in each section; at the top, I could look at the pictures and quickly scan what artists were in that section, but then a couple of sections down, I realized that there were artists in the list that weren't in the pictures. I realize now that, if you edit the section, you'll see an (ungrammatical) explanation that images are only included for the top seven artists in each section, but that's not made clear in any way to the reader (and it doesn't help that the images aren't even in the same order that the artists are listed, which would make it even harder to figure out that it's only the top seven artists). It seems to me that a list without images (or with images integrated into the table) would look much better than a list where each section includes an apparently random smattering of images, awkwardly shoved in at the top. Theoldsparkle (talk) 13:56, 31 January 2013 (UTC)
 * The images are of the seven top certified artists in each section, they're not randomly shoved in as you believe. And there is no reason why the list can't have images.--Harout72 (talk) 16:05, 31 January 2013 (UTC)
 * I'll repeat this part of my message above, since you apparently missed it: "I realize now that, if you edit the section, you'll see an (ungrammatical) explanation that images are only included for the top seven artists in each section, but that's not made clear in any way to the reader (and it doesn't help that the images aren't even in the same order that the artists are listed, which would make it even harder to figure out that it's only the top seven artists)." The reader sees seven images with no explanation for why those seven images were selected; therefore, to the reader, the images appear random, which makes the list appear sloppy. Theoldsparkle (talk) 17:31, 31 January 2013 (UTC)

Buddy, No Need to be Genius to see why only seven and why their images been selected to be placed on each section, the reader would be understand who is the best artist with the best certification sales, and no need to make this list more full with un-important explanation. As long as they could read and understand english. If you want to make this list look better, you can make yourself usefull by trying to find another famous artist but not being included on this list while their certification is more than enough (such as Eric Clapton) Politsi (talk) 04:47, 1 February 2013 (UTC)
 * Well, I thought I could understand English, until I got to this comment... Look, the truth is that the smattering of pictures looks random and stupid to anyone who doesn't know your "rules", which would presumably be 99+% of the people viewing this page. But since you all prefer the article, that you work so hard on, to look random and stupid rather than just remove a feature that adds no value whatsoever, I'll leave you to it and no longer watch this discussion. I couldn't even use this article to find the info I was originally looking for (the sales ranking of the Andrews Sisters), so I'm happy to forget it exists. See ya. Theoldsparkle (talk) 15:21, 1 February 2013 (UTC)

The Rolling Stones
Yesterday, i was trying to update their claim figures up to 250m by using this source (http://www.northernadvocate.co.nz/news/rolling-stones-not-fade-away-ever/1526659/_) and wait your response today. And it has been erase and back to their old claim figures.

Harout, If you think that would be not necessary, it's okay for me. I just need your opinion, is it possible to place their name equally with Elton John and Pink Flyod? because their music legacy it seems equally with them.

Thanks Politsi (talk) 04:37, 1 February 2013 (UTC)
 * I reverted your edit. There is not need for the figure of 250 million as their certified sales are below 100 million.--Harout72 (talk) 08:04, 1 February 2013 (UTC)

The Andrews Sisters
Greetings. Sorry I added photos of Dylan and Prince (no I did not see any notice not to add past seven but that's fine). Can you please add The Andrews Sisters to the group selling 75 million or more? Wikipedia says MCA last counted them in the 1970s. Here is a source:. Thank you. -SusanLesch (talk) 16:28, 1 February 2013 (UTC)
 * We actually require certain percentage amount of certified sales for artists depending on the year they have officially begun charting. For 75 million claim, Andrews Sisters would need 15 million in certified sales. I'm afraid, I can't find any certifications for them, whether in U.S., Canada or the U.K.. Besides, we don't source claimed figures to sources like IMDB, they are all sourced to articles published by news agencies, or Billboard, VH1 like sites.--Harout72 (talk) 16:38, 1 February 2013 (UTC)
 * IMDB agrees with The New York Times. The Los Angeles Times says nearly 100 million. Thank you for keeping to high standards here (I've encountered that on Wikipedia by another listkeeper). The Andrews Sisters by Harry Nimmo (2004, who says they could sell a million a year) says on page 412, "CD liners and feature stories often claim record sales of sixty to ninety million for the sisters, but the range is so great that the figures are not meaningful." -SusanLesch (talk) 16:57, 1 February 2013 (UTC)
 * Billboard ran the Associated Press obituary who says 80 million. Also note that the RIAA was founded in 1952. What would they know about a group from the 1940s? -SusanLesch (talk) 16:49, 1 February 2013 (UTC)


 * Well, RIAA has issued certifications for albums released in the 50s and early 60s. Similarily, had any of Andrews Sister's records reached a Gold or Platinum status, they would have gotten certified also. In other words, lot of the records released in the 50s and 60s reached Gold and Platinum certification-levels towards the end of the 20th century, and certified only then. I can't see any decent chart peaks for Andrews Sisters' albums, released in the 70s. If you wish, we can put up the name, The Andrews Sisters, in the lead, next to the name of those artists who are also not on the list due to lack of certified sales (proof of sales). Honestly that's all I can offer as we have to maintain consistency.--Harout72 (talk) 01:08, 2 February 2013 (UTC)
 * Thank you. Your offer is a good start. But instead of lumping them in all the uncertified artists, in this case we ought to simply say "The Andrews Sisters recorded before RIAA was in existence" (no need to list them in the article, but the examples you cite from the 50s, 60s and 70s are not the era they worked in). Also please note that Billboard/AP says "several" of their records were gold, but the system this article uses has to ignore those. -SusanLesch (talk) 03:28, 2 February 2013 (UTC)
 * You know what? Bing Crosby is in the same boat (they recorded a dozen songs together). I think both the sisters and Crosby need to come out of your mini-list of exceptional cases. -SusanLesch (talk) 15:45, 2 February 2013 (UTC)

I think you are under the impression that records released in the 40s or the 50s sold only during that era. That's what I tried and explain to you, perhaps my explanation wasn't clear. Records (albums, singles) keep selling for decades after their release date. Therefore, often times get certified decades later. For example, Elvis Presley's album Elvis, which was released in 1956 (before RIAA's Gold/Platinum program), received its Platinum in 2011. Or Frank Sinatra's Christmas Album released in 1957 (before RIAA) was certified Platinum in 1994. Also, Bing Crosby's White Christmas which was released in 1977, received its 4x Platinum in 2004. The same should've been with Andrews Sisters. It's true that we shouldn't expect to see all of Andrews Sister' albums/single certified as some of their albums/singles didn't continue selling after 1958, but their best selling albums released in 1940s (and compilation albums) should have kept selling for decades and eventually would have reached at least the Gold status after 1958, when RIAA already had established its Gold/Platinum program. In my honest opinion, we're just dealing with inflated promotional sales figures whether it's Crosby's 300 million records (albums, singles) as claimed by some sources or Andrews Sisters' 75 million (no offense). Anyways, I won't include Andrews Sisters in the lead since you don't want it. But Bing Crosby has released numerous albums/singles after 1958, therefore, should've had a lot more certified sales than just some 6.5 million in total from RIAA, if really sold as much as claimed.--Harout72 (talk) 16:56, 2 February 2013 (UTC)
 * You are right. I was under this mistaken impression. Just FYI, the Andrews Sisters' first hit came out in 1938, and the last one or two were by Patty alone in the mid-50s. I added them in the mini-list. Thank you. -SusanLesch (talk) 18:08, 2 February 2013 (UTC)

The Beatles claimed sales seems inaccurate.
According to Guinness World Records they've sold over a billion records. Despite Guinness World records stating they've sold over a billion records which usually implies it's little over 1 billion sales, according to Statistic Brain The Beatles have sold over 2.3 billion albums/records.

I think the wiki article should be changed and the claimed sales for The Beatles corrected. — Preceding unsigned comment added by HenryTheBeatles (talk • contribs) 05:07, 6 February 2013 (UTC)


 * These sources are unreliable. By the way, there's no musical act in the world which has sold over 1 billion records. Most of the figures are inflated. That's the reason why the certified sales are more important and included in this list.Christo jones (talk) 11:16, 6 February 2013 (UTC)


 * I think it's no is a good idea: The Guinness Book of Records is based in EMI and in principle, EMI is a source subjective and biased. IMHO :). Best regards, Chrishonduras (talk) 15:44, 6 February 2013 (UTC)


 * 2.3 billion? Jesus Michael Jackson wouldn't have been in so much debt if that were true! Mc8755 (talk) 17:07, 6 February 2013 (UTC)

They use sources such as RIAA, Apple Records and EMI which was last verified late last year. You can email them for their references or ask they how they got the statistics.

They obviously didn't make it up.

And Michael Jackson never actually bought the whole catalogues, he owned roughly half the rights to The BEatles catalogue but would steadily sell it off bit by bit. He also only bought the catalogue in 1985, which is already 15 years after The Beatles broke up and way past the period where Beatlemania was at it's peak. — Preceding unsigned comment added by HenryTheBeatles (talk • contribs) 23:23, 6 February 2013 (UTC)

Michael Jackson
Michael Jackson sold only 175 million records since 2009 according to The Grand Rapids Press: http://www.mlive.com/entertainment/grand-rapids/index.ssf/2009/06/michael_jackson_the_king_of_po.html Please remove the 300, 350 and 400 million — Preceding unsigned comment added by 190.56.253.135 (talk) 19:30, 6 February 2013 (UTC)

hahaaa lol this. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.32.87.203 (talk) 20:46, 6 February 2013 (UTC)


 * Not applicable. Sorry, but no need of delete the 300, 350 and 400 million. Best regards, Chrishonduras (talk) 21:01, 6 February 2013 (UTC)

Mötley Crüe
Harout, are they mention already in this list?. need your advise, who the h3ll (sorry...) are they?. USA Today (http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/life/music/news/story/2012-07-15/motley-crue-on-the-road-again/56312954/1) and BBC News (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-20423799) said them have sold 80m-albums. While Hartford Courant (http://articles.courant.com/2011-07-12/entertainment/hc-motley-crue-poison-0714-20110712_1_poison-new-york-dolls-text-shop) said them have sold 75m-albums.

Need your help, are these reliable? both. thanks Politsi (talk) 06:03, 7 February 2013 (UTC)
 * ✅ The 75 million albums claim works as they have over 25 million in certified album sales.--Harout72 (talk) 16:48, 7 February 2013 (UTC)

Lady Gaga should be included in this list
I could find this source for her sales; I can look for more if you want.

http://www.statisticbrain.com/lady-gaga-career-statistics/ -Mastamaind — Preceding unsigned comment added by 190.237.2.244 (talk) 17:56, 7 February 2013 (UTC)

Duran Duran
Harout, sorry...but please remind me again, how many certification sales of their albums only? as i remember, i was trying to add them in the list with 80m-albums claim. But, unfortunately their certification is not enough.

But how about with the 75m-albums claim from The Times (Malta)(http://www.timesofmalta.com/articles/view/20080511/local/the-wild-boys-are-coming.207608) is it work for them? thanks. Politsi (talk) 05:25, 8 February 2013 (UTC)
 * ❌ Duran Duran need 28% certified sales as they've begun charting in 1981, that's 21 million certified album sales needed for a claim of 75 million albums. Their available certified album sales are only 15.8 million. Don't delete this section please, let it get archived for other editors, if someone else asks the same question in the future.--Harout72 (talk) 05:50, 8 February 2013 (UTC)

Alabama
Harout, i need your help for them also. How many their certification sales for albums only? is it working for 75m-albums claim. and please advice, which one of these two source is reliable for the list.

VH1 (http://m.vh1.com/news/article.rbml?id=1672831&cid=recco_news_mre) and MSN (http://social.entertainment.msn.com/music/blogs/one-country-blogpost.aspx?post=9a1475e9-5557-44bb-b93c-01e648f6cebb) ? thanks Politsi (talk) 05:39, 8 February 2013 (UTC)
 * Alabama need their 75 million claim supported by 28% certified sales as they've begun charting in 1981. Their certified album sales are 47.2 million, which is more than enough. But I'm hesitant to use the first source as it looks kind of incomplete, and the figure of 75 million is coming from BMI's Jody Williams, it states Williams cited just a few of Alabama's achievements, from earning a star on the Hollywood Walk of Fame to selling "75 million albums. The second source cannot be found and MSN is not a reliable source.--Harout72 (talk) 06:12, 8 February 2013 (UTC)

Rihanna Claim figures source
Harout, Is it a source from Euronews is welcome to the list. If yes, then we can replace Rihanna 100m-claim figures with the source from Euronews (http://www.euronews.com/in-vogue/1806870-is-rihanna-set-to-be-new-face-of-chanel/) ? thanks Politsi (talk) 06:03, 8 February 2013 (UTC)
 * Yes, Euronews is a News TV channel, and it's ok for us to use, you can replace the current source with that.--Harout72 (talk) 06:12, 8 February 2013 (UTC)

Andrea Bocelli
"For 80 million claimed figure, Andrea Bocelli needs 38.4 million in certified units as he's begun charting in 1994"

Bocelli is an international artist who sold many albums in practically every country, if it was mainly in the US, then I would understand why he needs nearly 50% percent certification since he debuted in 1994, but that isn't the case. Romanza for example sold 20 million albums worldwide, 75% of which was outside North America, so the millions sold in Latin America and Eastern Europe aren't properly accounted for cause they were in 1997, only the more recent sales are certified.

In Italy: Bocelli sold millions of albums there, way more than what's accounted for because only certifications from the past few years are counted here.

In Hungary: Probably a million albums sold, yet the country doesn't get to be included.

In USA: Under The Desert Sky: 560,410, yet not certified (3/07)

Romanza: 4,050,369, yet 3xp (5/06)

My Christmas: 2,948,000, 2×p (2009), should be updated by next year/Over 200,000 in Canada yet not certified there.

--Ahmad123987 (talk) 23:24, 9 February 2013 (UTC)
 * For an artist who's begun charting in 1994, only 48% certified sales is required. We don't just look at the U.S. market as far as Gold and Platinum certifications go. We look at all markets that offer certifications. All notable music markets in the world the sales of which cover good 80% of the global sales have been offering certifications since 1990, see our Notes section. This here is what Andrea Bocelli's available certified sales are. Also, how could it be 20 million units for the album Romanza, when it's sold/shipped:
 * 3 million units (or 3x Platinum) in USA
 * 5 million units in Europe
 * 1 million units (or Diamond) in Canada
 * 350,000 units (5x Platinum) in Australia
 * 100,000 units (or Gold) in Brazil
 * 360,000 units (or 3x Platinum for Italian version, and 3x Platinum for Spanish version) in Argentina
 * 45,000 units (or 3x Platinum) in New Zealand
 * That's a total of 9,855,000 units coming from all music markets which cover more than 90% of the global sales. In the same vein, you should not believe such inflated sales figure as the 80 million is, it's just a promotional figure. The 75 million is inflated enough for Bocelli (no offense).--Harout72 (talk) 23:55, 9 February 2013 (UTC)


 * Offense taken...
 * Europe: 6 million actually certified as of 2001, doesn't include actual sold: 
 * Usa: 4 miilion+ as of 2009
 * France: 2million sold 
 * Italy 800,000 as of 1997
 * +As of 2001, 900,000 in Brazil, 120,000 in Chile, 650,000 in Mexico, 500,000 in Argentina 
 * --Ahmad123987 (talk) 00:51, 10 February 2013 (UTC)

For France, SNEP's site is more reliable, only a Diamond (1 million units), but Infodisc's figure could be true also. France's and Italy's sales figure are already part of Europe's 6 million. While your sources are helpful, I still can't understand why they'd claim 20 million for Romanza as those figures bring the total close to 15 million (13.5 million), but leaves it short by 6 million units from the 20 million. I'm sure it's the same with the total claims also. Anyways, we'll have to wait for Bocelli to gain another 3 million+ in certified units (we have to be consistent with every artist on the list). Then we can use the 80 million claim. Thanks for providing the additional sales figures. Based on that, looks like it may not take long for Bocelli to gain 3 million plus certified units.--Harout72 (talk) 03:20, 10 February 2013 (UTC)

Cher
According to BPI Cher has sold 6.250 million records in UK not 5.700 million. Please check and correct.

- The Very Best of Cher - Gold (100,000 units)

- Living Proof - Gold (100,000 units)

- The Greatest Hits - 2xPlatinum (600,000 units)

- Strong Enough - Silver (200,000 units)

- Believe (album) - 2xPlatinum (600,000 units)

- Believe (single) - 2xPlatinum (1,200,000 units)

- It's a Man's World - Gold (100,000 units)

- Love Can Build a Bridge - Silver (200,000 units) (Should not be counted as it's performed by four artists)

- Greatest Hits: 1965-1992 - 3xPlatinum (900,000 units)

- Love Hurts - 3xPlatinum (900,000 units)

- The Shoop Shoop Song - Gold (400,000 units)

- Heart of Stone - Platinum (300,000 units)

- Cher (1987 album) - Gold (100,000 units)

- Dead Ringer for Love (with Meat Loaf) - Silver (250,000 units)

You can easily check here:

Best Regards. FraDany (talk) 14:36, 09 February 2013 (UTC)
 * I added the figures for each of your posted certifications above. The certification for Love Can Build a Bridge should be left out as it is performed by four artists. We only count the certifications of those records (albums, singles) which are solo performed or duo collaborations. But the silver BPI certification for that single is only 200,000 units. The total for the rest of the certifications you have posted above (excluding "Love Can Build a Bridge") is 3,700,000 albums, 2,050,000 singles, total=5,750,000 units. Where are you getting 6,250,000 (including "Love Can Build a Bridge")? Your total with that single should be 5,950,000. See Cher's detailed certified here.--Harout72 (talk) 15:49, 9 February 2013 (UTC)

Thank you! I would like to know why this source is not reliable? And also why Sonny & Cher sales are not counting in Cher's sales? FraDany (talk) 20:00, 09 February 2013 (UTC)
 * You probably didn't look at the file that I provided, Sonny & Cher's certifications are counted, at least those that are available. The source you provided above is reliable, but it states 200 million albums. This list requires certain amount of certified sales based on the year an artist begins to chart. For 200 million album claim, Cher would need 40 million certified albums alone, which she still doesn't have. Cher, so far, has 25.5 million available certified album units.--Harout72 (talk) 19:58, 9 February 2013 (UTC)

I recounted Cher's US sales:

Albums: (including Sonny & Cher's ones)


 * Look at Us - Gold (1.000.000)
 * Sonny & Cher Live - Gold (1.000.000)
 * All I Ever Need Is You - Gold (1.000.000)
 * Gypsys, Tramps & Thieves - Gold (1.000.000)
 * Half-Breed - Gold (1.000.000)
 * Take Me Home - Gold (500.000)
 * Cher (1987 album) - Platinum (1.000.000)
 * Heart of Stone - 3xPlatinum (3.000.000)
 * Love Hurts - Gold (500.000)
 * Believe - 4xPlatinum (4.000.000)
 * If I Could Turn Back Time: Cher's Greatest Hits - Gold (500.000)
 * Living Proof - Gold (500.000)
 * The Very Best of Cher - 2xPlatinum (2.000.000)
 * Burlesque OST - Gold (500.000)

Singles:


 * I Got You Babe - Gold (1.000.000)
 * Gypsys, Tramps & Thieves - Gold (1.000.000)
 * Half-Breed - Gold (1.000.000)
 * Dark Lady - Gold (1.000.000)
 * Take Me Home - Gold (1.000.000)
 * After All (feat. Peter Cetera) - Gold (500.000)
 * If I Could Turn Back Time - Gold (500.000)
 * Believe - Platinum (1.000.000)

Music Video:

The Farewell Tour - 3xPlatinum (300.000) The Very Best of Cher - The Video Hits Collection - Platinum (100.000)

Which brings the total of Cher's US sales to: 24.900.000 FraDany (talk) 12:50, 10 February 2013 (UTC)


 * Gold U.S. certification for albums have always been 500,000 units, it's the Gold certifications for singles that was 1,000,000 units before 1989. Also, unless good 50% of a soundtrack is performed by the artist in question, the certifications of that shouldn't be included. Only 2 songs (or 20%) of Burlesque is performed by Cher, the rest of the songs are by Christina Aguilera.--Harout72 (talk) 16:50, 10 February 2013 (UTC)

Shania Twain please ?
Harout, i really wanted this woman to be included in the 80m-list with the source from here (http://www.thestar.com/opinion/editorials/2013/02/03/shania_twain_museum_and_the_fleeting_nature_of_fame_editorial.html), her certification sales is too excellent and i wanted to bring her to the new list (80m) by myself but i feel that i need to ask you first.

what do you think? thanks. Politsi (talk) 11:45, 11 February 2013 (UTC)
 * Well, Twain's certified album sales are 65 million, and she's currently listed with 75 million albums claim. But I guess 80 million will be ok also, since it's only a difference of 5 million.--Harout72 (talk) 16:21, 11 February 2013 (UTC)

Harout, actually i'm still confuse to replace the picture on the section, because if i remove and place Twain to the 80m-list, then her certification is the highest on the section, i'm worrying making some mistake inside. well, i hope you could that. but if you hesitate, i will try to do that. thanks Politsi (talk) 01:42, 12 February 2013 (UTC)

Already DONE. Thanks buddy. Politsi (talk) 06:13, 12 February 2013 (UTC)

Claim figures source from Reuters
Harout, i really need your opinion. Personally, I really hate the source from Reuters. Because if you read the article inside it was stated like this:

Reuters is not responsible for the content in this press release

Sh1t!. what kind of News Source like this? Harout, I will erase the 100m-figures of Backstreet Boys from Reuters, because Reuters is not responsible for the content in this press release (http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/05/25/idUS112216+25-May-2011+MW20110525). Thanks Politsi (talk) 01:38, 13 February 2013 (UTC)
 * True, it is weird. And also something seems to be wrong with the formatting. But the 100 million records for Backstreet Boys is more logical than the 130 million as their certified sales are only 67 million.--Harout72 (talk) 03:00, 13 February 2013 (UTC)


 * The article is a copied press release and imo shouldn't be used, however primary sources such as this can be acceptable on Wikipedia if no outlandish claims have been made or if the content is clearly false. There are many such articles on Reuters, which are identifiable by the grey background. Mattg82 (talk) 03:32, 13 February 2013 (UTC)

elton john records sales
have just viewed the best selling artist page and am pleased to see that the inflated fiqure for jackson is gone because it was clearly a load of bollocks, he simply has not released enough material compared to the beatles and presley. what elton john is doing below both queen and led zep is baffling with eltons certified fiqures easly out selling both artists esp queen by some 60 million.eltons track record around the world is vastly superior to either artists and quite probably both madonna and jackson.eltons sales in america are well over whatever the riaa certified sales are.universal records have never kept up with the certification process ,e.g.the lion king, elton never got the credit for it yet he and tim rice wrote the only songs on the album yet the riaa do not see it as a elton john album yet every other artists who have released a soundtrack album wether they have shared the album with multiple other artists i.e the beegees/saturday night fever or not wriiten all of the songs i.e.whitney houston/the bodyguard have it credited to them no matter what.elton sings and write the only songs on the album and can not get any credit whatsoever -go figure .in the billboard countdown of the top artists over the last 50 years elton john is third over all easliy beat jackson .he scored better than presley only because presleys two best yrs were not counted only the  the beatles and madonna were ahead of him while queen and led zep did not make top fifty wiki billboard hot 100 page/elton john main article  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 121.74.95.154 (talk) 08:51, 13 February 2013 (UTC)

Let me answer your question, Elton John claim figures source is only around 250m-200m records. If you feel that we need to raise his claim figures, make yourself usefull buddy. Please find the reliable source for him (probably around 300m) then we will put him in the better place on the list. Politsi (talk) 10:17, 13 February 2013 (UTC)

Luciano Pavarotti
Harout, i really need your opinion about him. Personally, i think he don't deserve to get into 100m-list since his certification sales still below the 20% requirement.

What if, i put him into the 75m-list with the source from here (http://www.musicweek.com/news/read/nominations-announced-for-the-classic-brit-awards-2012/051687), if you agree. I will remove him immediately. thanks Politsi (talk) 06:02, 14 February 2013 (UTC)
 * The 75 million would be more logical, but I don't think that source speaks of Luciano Pavarotti's sales anywhere. The 75 million seems to be for Andrea Bocelli: Since Luciano Pavarotti first heard his voice two decades ago in 1992, Italian tenor Andrea Bocelli has released 22 albums and has sold over 75 million records worldwide.. I may be missing something.--Harout72 (talk) 16:20, 14 February 2013 (UTC)

Oops!...hahaha... sorry, i forgot to use my glasses Politsi (talk) 05:01, 15 February 2013 (UTC)

Luciano Pavarotti removed from the list
I removed Luciano Pavarotti from the list because 15 million units of his all available 20.1 million certified sales are based on "Carreras, Domingo, Pavarotti". We should count the certifications of solo performances and duo collaborations.--Harout72 (talk) 20:29, 17 February 2013 (UTC)

Nana Mouskouri
Why isn't Nana Mouskouri on the list? She is supposed to have sold 200-400 million records. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.112.143.90 (talk) 15:30, 13 February 2013 (UTC)

http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0610062/ http://www.biography.com/people/nana-mouskouri-9416897 http://www.celebritynetworth.com/richest-celebrities/singers/nana-mouskouri-net-worth/ DilbertsDog (talk) 14:16, 18 February 2013 (UTC)
 * Nana Mouskouri isn't on the list due having only 5.4 million in certified sales. This list requires certain certified sales amounts depending on the year an artist in question has begun charting. See the second box from top on this talk page.--Harout72 (talk) 16:09, 18 February 2013 (UTC)


 * Ok, thanks. DilbertsDog (talk) 16:37, 19 February 2013 (UTC)

Robbie Williams
Why there's no Robbie Williams in this statistic?He Should be on this list!He have sold more that 75 million records Worldwide.

And How can you said about that buddy?, please do not put your sh1t here without any sources figures for your claim. Please find the 75m-figures of williams and then we will put him on the list. Politsi (talk) 08:30, 19 February 2013 (UTC)

Queen 300m-sales claim
Harout, sorry i'm asking this but i need your opinion. Are you sure that we should keep the 300m-sales claim of Queen? because their certification sales is not good enough to support the 300m-claim. Beside, i've been trying to see another reliable source for this claim.

And believe me, BBC Days of our Life is the only source which claim 300m-sales of Queen, while the others source only claim between 150m - 200m Albums not Records.

What if, We place Queen only to 150m section. What do you think? thanks Politsi (talk) 04:46, 19 February 2013 (UTC)

Wait, i have found another source (http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/entertainment/news/queen-drummer-john-taylor-reveals-competitive-streak-28585118.html) for their 300m-claim, but I still need your opinion for that claim. thanks Politsi (talk) 10:55, 19 February 2013 (UTC)

Sorry Harout for many asking and sh1t from me... accidentally i have found 200m-records for Queen from Sidmouth Herald (http://www.sidmouthherald.co.uk/news/news/queen_guitarist_reveals_sidmouth_inspiration_1_1392580) I will use it and erase the 150m-albums claim. thanks Politsi (talk) 11:08, 19 February 2013 (UTC)

Elvis Presley 500m-sales claim
Harout, need your opinion. Is it the source from here (http://www.the-star.co.ke/news/article-89535/celebrities-big-money-drugs-divorce-and-mysterious-deaths) is reliable enough for 500m-claim of Elvis Presley ?

Please Advice, thanks Politsi (talk) 08:27, 19 February 2013 (UTC)
 * Yes, looks like it's a daily newspaper in Kenya. Should be fine.--Harout72 (talk) 16:35, 19 February 2013 (UTC)

What happen with Bee Gees and with this list????
Harout, what happen with Bee Gees? why the get out from the 200m-list. and why the section look vandalism. I want to fix it, but i need to know are you still here?. thanks Politsi (talk) 01:20, 22 February 2013 (UTC)
 * I kept only their lower available claimed sales which is closer to their certified sales.--Harout72 (talk) 02:58, 22 February 2013 (UTC)

Donna Summer
Harout, i know that i'm the one who was asking you to include Summer in this list with 130m-records claim but when i'm looked back on her certification sales (only 31m). 130m-records is completely sh1t!.

I think, we should remove her name until we get the lower claim figures for her (such as 100m-records).

What do you think? thanks Politsi (talk) 05:58, 23 February 2013 (UTC)
 * It is inflated but unfortunately it meets the requires percentage amount. Let's leave it on for now. Once we locate an article that claims something lower than 130 million, we'll replace it.--Harout72 (talk) 16:31, 23 February 2013 (UTC)

B'z claim figures source
Harout, personally. i don't like the claim figures source of Japan Band B'z, which is published by Oricon. I feel that source is not reliable.

so i replace it with source from The Capital (http://www.capitalgazette.com/entertainment/local_entertainment/music-box-get-carried-along-with-the-playful-friendly-songs/article_ae19086d-3880-510c-8d9f-0fca75b0c971.html) but it is only stated 80m-albums, not records.

What do you think ? thanks. Politsi (talk) 06:28, 28 February 2013 (UTC)
 * Oricon is a very reliable source. Its reliability is equivalent to that of Billboard's.--Harout72 (talk) 16:49, 28 February 2013 (UTC)


 * Companies of music industry as the British Phonographic Industry (BPI) is acceptable as a reference here?. Regards, Chrishonduras (talk) 17:11, 28 February 2013 (UTC)

Change the picture of the artist periodically
Harout, i need your opinion. To make this list always look brand new, i suggest to up-date the picture from the artist in each section, not change the artist which is have the highest certification sales. But just to make more new look to see, not boring because always the same picture.

what do you think? thanks Politsi (talk) 04:49, 8 March 2013 (UTC)
 * I agree, some pictures look too dated. --Watquaza (talk) 14:26, 8 March 2013 (UTC)
 * I don't mind, but let's make sure when we replace images, we replace the current images with those that are clear. For example, Madonna's previous image was replaced with this, which is not exactly clear. We don't want to have unclear blurry images. That one needs to be replaced by another image.--Harout72 (talk) 16:04, 8 March 2013 (UTC)

Harout, to be honest. I feel so much better now, when i see several pictures in this (such as Madonna, Whitney Houston, and Rihanna) has been change. Because the previous picture look so boring. I suggest we change all the picture in the 100m-300m section, I wanted to do this by myself but i'm worrying making some mistake. Please advice Harout, thanks Politsi (talk) 01:34, 9 March 2013 (UTC)

Backstreet Boys claim figures
Harout, to be honest. I agree with you that their 130m-records claim is so inflated and 100m-records is more reliable for them as their certification sales only around 68m and they started their recording sales since 1995.

Please Advise, what do you think between this three sources is reliable for 100m-records claim of BSB.?

The Sunday Times (Western Australia)/http://www.perthnow.com.au/entertainment/nkotb-backstreet-boys-take-the-stage/story-fn7io1ym-1226358027023. CBC.CA/http://www.cbc.ca/news/story/2008/05/21/lou-pearlman.html. Channel NewsAsia/http://www.channelnewsasia.com/stories/entertainment/view/435471/1/.html.

And beside, i found this. what do you think? about their 75m-records claim from The Belfast Telegraph/http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/entertainment/music/news/backstreet-boys-back-in-belfast-28490984.html

Please advise.. Thanks Politsi (talk) 05:58, 23 February 2013 (UTC)
 * The 75 million is low, BSB must have sold between 80 and 90 million records by now worldwide. The 100 million is good but your articles are a few years old. If we're going to replace the 130 million with 100 million, let's find something that is new.--Harout72 (talk) 16:31, 23 February 2013 (UTC)


 * Claimed sales of 100m are definately closer to the 66.9 certified than the claimed sales of 130m. Plus, you said we need new sources, and the one of the Sunday Times is from last year. --Watquaza (talk) 16:38, 8 March 2013 (UTC)
 * I reverted the list to your version, I'm not sure why I thought your edit meant to be the other way around.--Harout72 (talk) 16:48, 8 March 2013 (UTC)

Finally you've got my point, actually i'm still confuse yesterday about this matter, i thought the source from Perthnow is not reliable because Harout said that we need a recent source. And i see the source from The Sunday Times is from 2012. thanks to change BSB claimed sales by the way. Politsi (talk) 01:26, 9 March 2013 (UTC)


 * Just wanted to point out that the new 100 million source copied and pasted the claim from the group's official site. I thought I read somewhere that it's not acceptable.--  Krystaleen  10:07, 10 March 2013 (UTC)
 * Well, let's just leave it on until another recent article pops up with 100 million in sales. Maybe there already is another, I'll look around.--Harout72 (talk) 17:16, 10 March 2013 (UTC)

Krysta, If the source from The Sunday Times still look silly and not reliable, then i will replace that source with Toronto Star (http://www.thestar.com/entertainment/music/2009/10/06/cd_pick_of_the_week_backstreet_boys.html) this news came from 2009 but still good because not too far away from this year and the source is highly prestigious. thanks Politsi (talk) 09:52, 11 March 2013 (UTC)

Why is Michael Jackson pictured after Madonna on this page?
I know this may seem kind of petty, but it's not. Why is Michael Jackson pictured after Madonna on this list of best selling artists. Michael Jackson has outsold Madonna, thus he should be pictured after the Beatles and Elvis. Leaving the pictures as it is implies racist efforts to suppress the significant accomplishments of this African American artist in an attempt to make it appear somehow inferior to his European counterparts which is completely untrue. I request that all pictures especially that of Michael Jackson's be moved so that they follow the order of the list

(Chicmama (talk) 19:48, 11 March 2013 (UTC))
 * The order of the images is based on certified sales, not claimed figures.--Harout72 (talk) 20:01, 11 March 2013 (UTC)

Backstreet Boys Sold 130 million albums
http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/entertainment/2012/07/reunited-backstreet-boys-announce-good-morning-america-concert/ http://www.officialcharts.com/features/backstreet-street-boys-interview/ http://www.whptv.com/content/Archive/story/New-Kids-On-The-Block-Back-Street-Boys-playing/FjBNa3B3UkOIBDUNGmk-XA.cspx http://www.mtv.co.uk/artists/backstreet-boys --- I do not understand why this wikipedia taking sales from artists old, and ridiculously increased sales of new artists. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Ramon.rlm (talk • contribs) 15:37, 11 March 2013 (UTC)


 * Almost every one of your sources above claims a different figure for BSB. What in fact is ridiculous is that Official Chart Company claims that BSB have sold 160 million albums. As if that is not enough, the UK's MTV claims 180 million albums. That is outright outrageous based on their certified album sales, which is only 54.6 million. We are still counting records sales of planet Earth only, aren't we?--Harout72 (talk) 16:31, 11 March 2013 (UTC)

is a shame because the credibility of wikipedia is already low, will soon only mad to believe in wikipedia. comment added by Ramon.rlm — Preceding unsigned comment added by 177.81.81.227 (talk) 19:58, 11 March 2013 (UTC)
 * And here I was thinking you would thank Harout72 for providing you with the correct information.Moxy (talk) 20:05, 11 March 2013 (UTC)

Ramon, who the hell you are? the reliability of Wikipedia will not decline just because of your shit above, if you don't agree with the rules on this list. Please get out without respect from here. thanks Politsi (talk) 04:25, 12 March 2013 (UTC)


 * 54.6 million? But you listed 66.9 million on the article. I agree though it doesn't really make sense to replace a new source with an old source, if you really have to have 100 million find a new source, at least newer than the 130 claim. There are a few sources I'm sure.--  Krystaleen  09:33, 13 March 2013 (UTC)

Krysta. are you a newbie in here? is it difficult for you to understand that most of the certification units in this list is combined from all (albums, singles, videos)? BSB have 54.6m only for their albums, while 66.9 combined with albums, singles, and their naked videos. Politsi (talk) 10:08, 13 March 2013 (UTC)


 * I somehow missed the "album" part, my fault. There's no need to be rude though, I find most of your comments uncalled for and rather aggressive. But anyway I don't think videos count, do they? Let alone the naked ones.--  Krystaleen  10:29, 13 March 2013 (UTC)

Sorry... if my comment look rude, but i just do my best to keep this list highly reliable and prestigious. I dont like to showing off, but this list has become more complete and most of the claim figures source were new. It's because of me.... but harout still the one... i just a supporter. and thank you so much to reply my comment, i appreciated it Politsi (talk) 10:44, 13 March 2013 (UTC)


 * All certifications are counted including the certifications for Videos as well as all types of Digital downloads for singles including Japan's numerous download types ("R format", "Full R format", "PC format") and the U.S. Digital and Mastertone types (if any). In other words, if there is any kind of certifications for an artist or a band in question, they're converted into figures and included in the total.--Harout72 (talk) 15:44, 13 March 2013 (UTC)


 * Ah you mean videos as in home videos or live DVDs, right? I was thinking of music videos for some reason.--  Krystaleen  15:49, 13 March 2013 (UTC)


 * All music videos whether BSB's The Hits, or A Night Out With BSB etc. Music Videos for singles are counted also if there is any. The BSB don't have any but some others do.--Harout72 (talk) 15:59, 13 March 2013 (UTC)

Update of Rihanna's sales??
this source is a trusted source just like the Daily Telegraph, and it states Rihanna has sold 41 million albums and 150 million tracks worldwide? also claims the same amount. That's two relatively trustworthy news sources reporting the same amount. It may be inflated, but still worth considering. 110.174.117.6 (talk) 04:42, 13 March 2013 (UTC)

NO. thanks Politsi (talk) 10:10, 13 March 2013 (UTC)

A.R Rahman has sold more than 200 million albums worldwide
Two time Academy award winner A.R Rahman has sold over 200 million records where is he in the list ???? [], [] , [] — Preceding unsigned comment added by Tojo667 (talk • contribs) 07:58, 14 March 2013 (UTC)

Harout, if the 200m-records look too much, how about 100m-records? (http://www.forbes.com/2009/01/06/bollywood-movies-rahman-biz-media-cz_ls_0106rahman.html) what do you think? thanks. Politsi (talk) 10:16, 14 March 2013 (UTC)
 * Almost no certifications at all for Rahman. I don't think he'll ever be on this list, even with 75 million (if there is claim like that).--Harout72 (talk) 15:10, 14 March 2013 (UTC)

Harout, is that so? but India have a billion human in there. Can not be true, that he not even reach 100m-sales in his native country. Politsi (talk) 04:55, 15 March 2013 (UTC)
 * Yes they do have a huge population, and 80-90% of their records sales are based on illegally made CDs, Cassettes which naturally can't get certified. Besides, Indian Music Association doesn't seem to have a database for their certifications. So no signs of certifications for Rahman except for this Australian Platinum (70,000 units), and this New Zealand Gold (7,500 units).--Harout72 (talk) 15:14, 15 March 2013 (UTC)

Garth Brooks' estimations vs. certifications
Garth Brooks is listed with estimations of 130 million but certifications of over 135 million. By that reckoning should his estimations not be moved in line to 136-140 million mark? Mc8755 (talk) 22:37, 14 March 2013 (UTC)
 * Can't find a reliable source that claims anything above his available certified units.--Harout72 (talk) 23:18, 14 March 2013 (UTC)

Mc, i should be so lucky to have find the 130m-albums claimed by USA Today, because if you really want to know. Brooks only famous in U.S and Canada. Therefore, his claim sales only around 128m-albums.

The same case was happen to Eagles before (120m-albums), but lucky i have found the better claim figure for them (150m-records). Politsi (talk) 01:30, 15 March 2013 (UTC)


 * Harout I thought as much, I've checked around and keep getting bounced back to Wiki with the 130 million estimates. Strange that his label haven't attempted to release an updated sales tally, even an inflated one. And Politsi Garth Brooks is famous in Ireland too! Mc8755 (talk) 01:57, 15 March 2013 (UTC)

But not in my country, Brooks is no one. Even TLC is much more famous than him. And don't forget that Brooks only has certification units in four countries (U.S, U.K, Canada, and Australia).

Actually, i've been trying so hard to find another better figures for his records sales but seriously, he is no-one outside the United States (who is he? is he a singer?). Politsi (talk) 04:52, 15 March 2013 (UTC)
 * Politsi, bear in mind that Brooks is a country singer, and country Genre normally doesn't attract international audience. But it's huge amongst many Americans, and even Canadians. Personally, I'm amazed by country singers' certifications. And quite frankly, none of their record companies inflate their artists' sales figures, they always seem to give the news agencies the actual sales numbers.--Harout72 (talk) 15:24, 15 March 2013 (UTC)
 * I concur with Brooks' certifications, Shania Twain and other pop-country singers I can understand because of the mainstream crossover but as a true country singer his sales are incredibly high.Mc8755 (talk) 16:30, 15 March 2013 (UTC)

Personally, i agree with Harout, it seems Brooks record company very consistent to reported his sales figure purely based on the certifiation. Unlike the other artist. Politsi (talk) 01:26, 18 March 2013 (UTC)

Sales
I think this list is quite good though its a bit strange that some artist with higher certifications are quite under some with lower certification. Just some examples Garth brroks 135 mio certification and 130 mio claimed? abba just 50 miilion certificated and 200 million? thats a hige difference!Willy993 (talk) 16:36, 16 March 2013 (UTC)

Maybe soon we should add artist with 50 million record to 75 million ? cause there are some artists like adele or robbie williiams that are quite famouse and also should be included ? what do you think?Willy993 (talk) 19:39, 16 March 2013 (UTC)

Alright willy, if Harout seems too busy to explain how this page works, let me answer you question. This list has been build purely based on the reliable claim figures that came out from the reliable news industry (Newspaper, News Network, News Music Industry). But the artist must have a sufficient certification unit and that figure should be meet the requirement and not so inflated from the certification. Listen buddy, you dont have to said about Robbie Williams or Adele should be add to this list. I've been trying to find their claim sales figures from reliable source and the result still Sh1t!/No. Make yourself usefull by trying to find the minimum 75m-sales of Adele or Williams and inform on this talk page, thanks Politsi (talk) 01:37, 18 March 2013 (UTC)

elton john sales
We wrote sometime ago about elton johns worldwide sales being way more than queen or led zepplin and i see you have dropped queen but not led zepplin which we fail to understand because on eltons wiki page you state he has sold over 250 million ,his cert sales are 20 million more than led zepplin yet you rate him below led zepplin ,simply i guess  because their record says they may have sold 200 to 300 million.Again we respectfully suggest that eltons vastly superior chart performance in both singles and albums worldwide must rate him both with jackson and madonna who are wthin about 10 million certs of each other.We belive Universal have never updated many of eltons albums for whatever reasons,but a site called UKMIX.UK a source you people once used who seem to do extensive work around world sales have elton at over 250 albums and 104 million singles which we would think is about right.I will try to find the pages these figures are on from ukmix uk org but doubt you see then has reliable121.72.141.150 (talk) 08:15, 18 March 2013 (UTC) 121.72.141.150 (talk) 08:15, 18 March 2013 (UTC) 121.72.141.150 (talk) 08:15, 18 March 2013 (UTC) 121.72.141.150 (talk) 08:15, 18 March 2013 (UTC) tony

i'm the one who was asking to kick out Elton John and Queen from the 300m-list. With a good reason, if you read carefully all the claim figures of those artist in this list came from a very famous news source. And about you argued that we should use the source from UKMIX.UK (especially about 250m-albums and 104m-singles of Elton's), the answer is absolutely NO!. thanks Politsi (talk) 10:00, 18 March 2013 (UTC)
 * To 121.72.141.150, see the discussion, Editing List of best-selling music artists that I recently had on my talk page with another editor whose edits were reverted here.--Harout72 (talk) 15:12, 18 March 2013 (UTC)

Typo fix by registered user please
In the first sentence of the final paragraph of the opening text, "The claimed figured are..." should read "The claimed figures are..." and I don't have access at the moment to this page. Thanks15:20, 18 March 2013 (UTC)2001:468:D01:14:1569:3B69:7687:D7E6 (talk)Andrew
 * Got it, thanks.--Harout72 (talk) 15:36, 18 March 2013 (UTC)

Deep Purple
Harout, sorry. But i need your information. Actually how much or how many of their certification units?. is it still not enough to cover the 100m-records claim? (http://www.thewesternstar.com/Arts/Festivals-%26amp-events/2011-11-29/article-2819522/Deep-Purple-coming-to-Corner-Brook-in-February/1)

thanks Politsi (talk) 10:15, 13 March 2013 (UTC)

Ehem... Harout, i understand why you dont want to waste your time to answer my question, i've been searching the archives and find the answer... sorry by the way. thanks Politsi (talk) 01:24, 14 March 2013 (UTC)
 * That is actually very strange that my response to your question hasn't gone through. It is in my contributions.--Harout72 (talk) 03:39, 14 March 2013 (UTC)
 * It was removed with another posting, probably by mistake . 88.104.27.2 (talk) 19:53, 20 March 2013 (UTC)

Beyonce´s sales needs to be updated
Beyonce has sold 75 million records according to the list, however , Wikipedia says , aka the link http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beyonc%C3%A9_Knowles , that Beyonce has sold 118 million records worldwide , plus , if we count and make a sum of Beyonce 's sales(Singles , Albums , etc) taking the certifications as a bias , Beyonce´s sales are 115 million aproximately.Can I edit the chart and upscale Beyonce, or I need more proof?

PD:Sorry for my bad english, I'm learning! Commented by Robert. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 186.6.85.163 (talk) 22:45, 19 March 2013 (UTC)
 * Please read everything that is in the lead of the list first. Then see required percentage amounts posted within the second box from the top of this talk page. As you can see Beyonce's 50.7 million in available certified sales are enough for 77 million claimed sales only.--Harout72 (talk) 00:29, 20 March 2013 (UTC)

Harout, what do you think about this claim from the prestigious news source/The Telegraph (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/celebritynews/9896887/Beyonce-agreed-to-sing-at-local-UK-carnival-but-only-for-50000-fee.html) this article said that Beyonce sold 120m-records, which is absolutely shit. Need your advice, if you have a time. thanks Politsi (talk) 05:16, 20 March 2013 (UTC)
 * That figure is inflated by 50 million units at the least, her actual sales should be somewhere around 70 million. Anyways, we can't use anything higher than 77 million.--Harout72 (talk) 05:49, 20 March 2013 (UTC)

Katy perry sales
she has sold 11 million album copies and 75 million digital singles well that easily puts her in the list with sales of 100 million copies — Preceding unsigned comment added by Jawad333 (talk • contribs) 18:30, 20 March 2013 (UTC)

The source please? do not ask us to do what you want if you didn't give your contribution also. Beside that, her certification units still below the requirement. Politsi (talk) 01:20, 21 March 2013 (UTC)

Metallica
Harout, need your advice. This band have a very excellent certification units (88m) what do you think about this source from The New Age (South African newspaper)/http://thenewage.co.za/70647-1022-53-Heavy_Metal_group_Metallica_to_rock_SA_fans This young african newspaper stated this band have sold 110m-albums. I think we should raise their position higher than the others in the 100m-list. What do you think? thanks Politsi (talk) 01:50, 21 March 2013 (UTC)
 * Your source says 110 million Albums not Records. Metallica's available albums sales are 76 million. By replacing their previous source (100 million records) with this one above, you have created a gap of 34 million units between their claimed sales and their certified album sales. I think the 110 million would be realistic if it said Records (albums, singles, videos).--Harout72 (talk) 15:19, 21 March 2013 (UTC)

Harout, i understand that the claim figures which stated records is so much better and reliable than albums. But what i see from this band that their certification is equal with Bon Jovi and U2. With 88m units, they even deserve to enter the 150m-list. I will try to find the source which stated Records for them, but since you seems not fully agree with their new figure, i will bring back to their previous claim (100m-records). thanks Politsi (talk) 01:28, 22 March 2013 (UTC)

Britney Spears
I know I shouldn't ask this, but can you use flattering picture of her e.g. the one she has on her main article? Jasica1122 (talk) 00:10, 28 March 2013 (UTC)

Mariah Carey
It has been brought to my attention that a recent published article about Mariah Carey claiming that she has sold 250 million records. Now I know you might think it's an exaggeration but take note most of the artists on the List of best-selling music artists has at least 40-60% of the claimed sales where the 40-60% sales are the total available certified units. 120 million units is 48% percent of 250 million which would qualify as a new claimed sales. Bands like Pink Floyd has a 250 million claimed sales but their total available certified units is 111 million, 9 million units lower than Mariah. How come the band is able to qualify and Mariah can't? You can argue that the band started at 1967 where the certification systems didn't became good till the 80's or 90's but I could also argue that Mariah Carey has many under certified albums and singles in Asian or Latin American countries where the music industry didn't hit big till the late 80's or the 90's; where the 90's was Mariah Carey's heyday. Before Mariah's debut English speaking countries and Europe were the only relatively big music markets excluding Japan(in which Mariah is big). And after the late 80's or early 90's smaller countries in Asia and Latin America started to have a music market albeit small still would add at least a million for a total certified unit sales for Mariah.

Now let's go with the breakdown. Here I will list some points in which country I think Mariah undercertified and most of them are in Asia.


 * 1. Japan: It says here that Carey has sold 8.9 million units in Japan. But according to Carey's discography including single sales she has an estimated 15-20 million record sales. According to the list of best selling albums in Japan, Carey has 12 million albums sold not including her MTV unplugged sales, 1990's singles sales and her 2000-2010's album, singles and DVD sales.


 * 2. South Korea: South Korea is not even included in the list of countries to offer a total available certified units sales for artists. She and Whitney are the only foreign acts to have a million seller album in South Korea and that tells something. Her albums and singles sales pre-Gaon chart are still not certified. Her Gaon(Korea's Billboard) sales alone would account to 500,000-1,000,000 units including digital singles if correctly and carefully monitored. Her record sales in that country is estimated around 3-5 million units.


 * 3. Other asian countries: Countries like Taiwan, Hong Kong, Singpore, Philippines, Malaysia, Indonesia, etc. are not even included. I'm pretty sure she has at least 1 million record sales in each country.


 * Not to mention that her catalog sales increases at least 500,000-1 million records every year(a fair estimation), thanks largely to her Christmas music.

I still think this 250 million claimed sales is still an embryo but it's up to you guys if you support the 250 million claimed sales. After all her catalog sales increases every year not to mention more and more certification especially from smaller markets are going to be available in the years to come. (Maybe a year or two). I will provide two sources for the 250 million claimed sales backed by a reputable source: Source 1A, Source 1B, Source 2. (Sources 1A and 1B have the same publishers)

Cheers. And have a good day, :) Mazic (talk) 15:04, 27 March 2013 (UTC)


 * First, you can never compare 1960s artists like Pink Floyd to 1990s artists like Mariah Carey (three-decade gap). Second, I'm an Asian and I have to say that Asia has never been a significant music market in term of record sales (excluding Japan), so your opinion of her under-certified sales in Asia will not affect anything. Third, all of your personal estimation above mean nothing, unless you can provide reliable source for those numbers. Bluesatellite (talk) 15:27, 27 March 2013 (UTC)
 * It's worth noting that her label confirmed sales of 175 million records in the press release of Memoirs of an Imperfect Angel (2009). The next year, they increased it to 200 million records when she came out with her next album Merry Christmas II You (2010). I believe that this is another attempt to inflate her record sales, considering that her upcoming studio album will be released this year. How can we believe that she add another 50 million sales when she barely sold 1 million albums for each of her last two albums? Not to mention she didn't have any chart hits during the last four years. Bluesatellite (talk) 15:39, 27 March 2013 (UTC)


 * "Asia has never been a significant" but still it adds up to your total available certified sales it's still sales at the end of the day. It will affect if combined. The certified sales for Japan are 8.9 million but Oricon has 12 million record sales figures not including her sales after her departure from Sony. Third, the requirement for artists who debuted between 1990-2000 must have 40-60% of the claimed sales, in which 120 million is 48% of the new claimed sales, 250 million. I've emphasized her Japanese sales to push the 120 million certified unit sales to at least 50%. 203.215.118.142 (talk) 15:45, 27 March 2013 (UTC)
 * So could you care to explain how in 2009, Madonna has an estimated 200 million figures and now she has 300? Do you actually believe in a span of 4 years she has sold 100 million records. hmmmmmm..... Mazic (talk) 15:53, 27 March 2013 (UTC)
 * Again I will ask you the same question. In 2009, it is said that Madonna has sold 200 million records worldwide: Wiki Link Sources: . and now she has sold 300 million records, 100 million records more in a span of 4 years!? Yeah, inflation right? ;) Mazic (talk) 15:53, 27 March 2013 (UTC)

To user Mazic: The percentage requirements are designed to determine whether or not artists should get on the list. The last two sentences in the lead of the list are another important part of how this list operates. Just to bring it to your attention, countries like South Korea, Taiwan, Hong Kong, Singpore, Philippines, Malaysia, Indonesia, etc. are small music markets and never generate notable sales. One single European market like Germany or UK generates more sales than the 95% of the countries in Asia (with an exception of Japan) and in South America (with an exception of Brazil, Mexico) combined. See Global music industry market share data. In other words, had Mariah Carey really sold anywhere near 250 million records, her certified sales from the markets that are included on the list would have been over 150 million units, since she is not an early beginner like many artists/band are on the list are. The 8.9 million units are the available certified units for Japan, not the actual sales. We can't know Mariah's actual certified sales for Japan because RIAJ's Gold/Platinum database begins from 2003 and their Million-Seller which begins from 1989, post only albums that have reached a sales of one million. But this is the reason why the required percentage amounts are kept low, otherwise we would require much higher certified amounts. Anyways, this is what Mariah Carey's detailed available certified sales look like.--Harout72 (talk) 15:54, 27 March 2013 (UTC)
 * Fair enough. But South Korea is not relatively small as you think, she has a million seller just to mind you. Excerpt from Music Box (album): In Asia, Music Box became one of the best-selling albums of 1994, selling over 2,200,000 copies in Japan alone.[35][36] The album's sales continued to skyrocket in Asia, topping sales of over 1,000,000 in South Korea and 320,000 copies in Taiwan as of 1996.[35][37] In Malaysia, Singapore and Hong Kong, sales reached 110,000 and 80,000 copies respectively.[35] What you mean by little should mean average. She's big in Asia, what is big in asia is average in western markets, so it will still add. My point is don't underestimate her selling prowess even in small markets. Little by little it still adds, and that is just one album I didn't even include her rest catalog.

And you said 150 million, but the requirement says 40-60% from artists debuting around 1990-2000., 120 million is 48% of 250 million and it will still qualify. I propose that we should add the 250 million claimed sales while still retaining the 175 million claimed sales. Mazic (talk) 16:15, 27 March 2013 (UTC)


 * Sorry, but I completely disagree. 250 million records? and by only one source..... This is clearly an inflation of sales. Something else, you're wrong: Mariah Carey does not sell well in the Latin American. The Latin American people know her much, but their music is not commercial as pop, rock... I will not comment on other artists, but is that you have not a broad perspective:

"So could you care to explain how in 2009, Madonna has an estimated 200 million figures and now she has 300? Do you actually believe in a span of 4 years she has sold 100 million records. hmmmmmm..... Mazic (talk) 9:53 am, Today (UTC−6) Again I will ask you the same question. In 2009, it is said that Madonna has sold 200 million records worldwide: Wiki Link Sources: .[4][5] and now she has sold 300 million records, 100 million records more in a span of 4 years!? Yeah, inflation right? ;)"

_LOL This is a complete fallacy, totally......

In 2006, the International Federation of the Phonographic Industry (The entity more reliable for worldwide sales) say that Madonna sold 200 million albums (only albums, not records). Obviously, the amount of albums since then has increased. And the singles are more than 100 million (by 2008). After all, the world's diversity of sources such as The Official Charts Company (source of music industry). Have said that Madonna has sold over 300 million records. You see, I think you're wrong, therefore, Mariah Carey and their 250 million figure is unrealistic. Regards, Chrishonduras (talk) 16:37, 27 March 2013 (UTC)
 * That IFPI numbers is way inflated. By 2006 records would sound reasonable. Slant Magazine reported in 2003 that Madonna has sold 150 million albums, how come just in a span of 3 years she sold 50 million albums more. The 200 million albums in 2006 is unrealistic. Mazic (talk) 16:49, 27 March 2013 (UTC)

I have a question: What entity is more realistic?. A Simple magazine or an organization that is dedicated to record sales?. Chrishonduras (talk) 16:57, 27 March 2013 (UTC)

Were they confusing albums with record sales? Which is more realistic, hmmm? Mazic (talk) 17:01, 27 March 2013 (UTC)
 * Please stop bringing Madonna's name here, this is not a diva war. The latest press release from her label still reported sales of 200 million records. Pleas note, this IS her label, which obviously put all the best words to market her. Do you think her label would report a low sales claim for her?! Bluesatellite (talk) 17:18, 27 March 2013 (UTC)


 * True, I did not touch the name of Madonna or other artists, but I see that the user does is justified by other artists, when one has to assess individually seperated. Now all we have emphasized that the 250 million it says Channel Canada is arbitrary. End to discuss. Regards, Chrishonduras (talk) 17:26, 27 March 2013 (UTC)


 * Tsk. Tsk. And you were quick to refute me. Where I could say the same things about the inflation of other artists. Mazic (talk) 17:33, 27 March 2013 (UTC)
 * User:Mazic, please stop talking in a snarky manner and assume good faith on every editor's contribution here. All of them are providing sources to certify their claims, which you are also doing, but is being refuted. So please accept that and if you can provide better third party sources, adhering to the norms set in this article, please do so. — Indian: BIO  · [ ChitChat  ] 03:47, 28 March 2013 (UTC)

wow. I just leave this talk page for one day, and now there is another war in here. to Mazic, please do not praise your fat diva too much, and i suggest it would be better if you're going with your male friends and doing some male stuff (like football or rugby).Politsi (talk) 01:39, 29 March 2013 (UTC)


 * It's nice to meet people like you, very nice indeed. Keep it up! Thanks man? Mazic (talk) 18:01, 30 March 2013 (UTC)

Mariah required certified sales cover the claim, but it honestly feels inflated. Maybe with a more prestigious source like CNN or BBC. But I think she should stay with her 200 million by now. Watquaza (talk) 23:08, 30 March 2013 (UTC)

Please be consistent with the picture from each section
To all editors, please do not change the picture from each section because only seven artist with the highest certification sales units allow to have their picture on the sales section. ''(example, what happened with Tupac Shakur picture? and why the Spice Girls replace him?) '' Harout, please. need your help with this. thanks Politsi (talk) 07:00, 31 March 2013 (UTC)
 * Yeah I know, the image of Shakur seems to have been deleted from commons, and so it's no longer considered a free image. We don't seem to have another image of him at the moment. So I placed the image of Spice Girls who are the next band with highest certified units in that section.--Harout72 (talk) 07:46, 31 March 2013 (UTC)

Wahahahaha... i never thought it was you (the mighty editor in this list). That's a good reason, i just wanted this list always reliable and prestigious. and believe me, writers from newspaper all over the earth will read this list if they wanted to write some famous artist. For examples, previously Eagles always get claim only around 120m-albums from most of reliable news source, but when i found their better sales figures from Herald & Review (150m-records) another reliable news source follow (http://www.theithacajournal.com/article/20130314/ENT/303140001/Philharmonic-Jeans-n-Classics-fly-Eagles) Politsi (talk) 11:21, 31 March 2013 (UTC)

Sales
one question,this sales have released with sales of albums or albums and singles?? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 187.79.132.69 (talk) 00:57, 2 April 2013 (UTC)

Green Day
Harout, Need your opinion. As i remember, this band has been said to have sold 65m-records in the previous list but this article from The Denver Post (http://www.denverpost.com/entertainment/ci_22798454/sxsw-2013-green-day-looks-rebound-at-big) claim that idiots have sold 75m-albums. What do you think? thanks Politsi (talk) 01:41, 2 April 2013 (UTC)
 * ✅ I put them on the list. If you come across a source that says Records, please be sure to replace this one.--Harout72 (talk) 02:12, 2 April 2013 (UTC)

Roger on that, i will. thanks Politsi (talk) 04:16, 2 April 2013 (UTC)

Cliff Richard
Harout, please remind me. How much actually of his certification sales units, most of news source and his official site claim he has sold 250m-records. If this claim is not reliable, how about 200m-records from Ventura County Star (http://www.vcstar.com/news/2010/oct/28/no-headline---g07vfilmdvdrail29/), 150m-records from Daily Mail (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-2062744/Merry-Christmas-Sir-Cliff-Richard-reveals-favourite-festive-moments.html), which is quite reliable? or both not? need your advice. thanks Politsi (talk) 11:18, 3 April 2013 (UTC)
 * Cliff Richard needs 30 million certified units for 150 million records. His available certified units are only 11.8 million. I doubt he'll ever be on this list.--Harout72 (talk) 15:52, 3 April 2013 (UTC)

This is actually silly, because most of prestigious news source (BBC, Telegraph, CNN) always claim him to have sold 250m-records, are they so idiot? are they not checking the fact before published something like this?. I dont get it Politsi (talk) 01:42, 4 April 2013 (UTC)
 * Are you surprised? We see inflated sales figures everyday. Cliff Richard has probably sold some 50-70 million records overall. He's an early beginner, so some 30% of his records have gone uncertified because the UK and many other music markets didn't have certification-systems before mid 1970s.--Harout72 (talk) 01:55, 4 April 2013 (UTC)

Meatloaf
Harout. As i remember, his certification units nearly reach 40m and his previous claim sales around 70m-records. But i have found an article from Boise Weekly (http://www.boiseweekly.com/boise/meatloaf-plans-to-regret-something-he-does-in-boise/Content?oid=2675307) and said them have sold 100m-albums, what do you think? thanks Politsi (talk) 11:54, 3 April 2013 (UTC)
 * Meat Loaf's available certified album sales are only 34 million. How can he have sold 100 million. Let's wait until we can come across a source that states maximum of 75-80 million records as his 38.7 million albums, singles, videos combined.--Harout72 (talk) 15:47, 3 April 2013 (UTC)

Harout, i can not find it. His records claim only around 70m-records. But how about 100m-records? from STV TV Network (http://entertainment.stv.tv/music/299400-meat-loaf-tells-stv-whether-hed-be-judge-on-the-x-factor-and-reveals-scottish-touring-plans/) what do you think? thanks. Politsi (talk) 01:38, 4 April 2013 (UTC)
 * No, that's not a highly reliable source. Let's be patient, he doesn't have to be on the list. We'll wait and see.--Harout72 (talk) 01:57, 4 April 2013 (UTC)

Okay, I will be patient. But please for the last question on this, how about this 80m-albums claim from this source?(http://www.northernexpress.com/michigan/article-4943-meatloaf.html) thanks Politsi (talk) 10:37, 4 April 2013 (UTC)
 * ✅ I put Meat Loaf on the list, but keep an eye out for a source that uses the term Records. Replace this one please once you find such source.--Harout72 (talk) 15:44, 4 April 2013 (UTC)

Thank you harout, of course. You know me and all my edit in this list, i will try to find the better source for meat loaf and like i said, time will be answer. once we place an artist in here, the other reliable news source will be follow. Politsi (talk) 01:26, 5 April 2013 (UTC)

Bon Jovi
Harout, yes I understand that we should keep the lowest claim figure for all artist in this list. But I think we need to see the " Fair Respected " in here.

What i mean to say that we must treat the old artist better than the newer artist which both has the same certification units, and this case is Bon Jovi.

Yes, they are one of my favorite bands of all time and i hope they gained a better respected in this list. As i remember, previously they claim to have sold 130m-records in this list, but in the past three weeks their claim figure were down to 100m-records. First, i agree. But when i see Britney Spears also claim the same figure like Bon Jovi and with the same certification unit sales. i feel this is not fair.

Yes, you always say to us for not making this list to be a competition, but i think we should treat the old artist better than the newbie. and the point is, could you please move them to the 120m-records list with the source from Manchester Evening News?(http://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/whats-on/film-and-tv/keep-the-faith-bon-jovi-fans-863943)

I need your permission and advice on that. thanks Politsi (talk) 05:15, 5 April 2013 (UTC)
 * We should leave them where they are with their available claimed sales, 100 million records.. Remember, fairness is decided by certified sales amount. The 100 million is the closest available certified sales for Bon Jovi.--Harout72 (talk) 05:56, 5 April 2013 (UTC)

Hall and Oates
Harout, what do you think about this old dog duo?. The Shelby Star (http://www.shelbystar.com/lifestyles/entertainment/oates-without-hall-1.91189) said them have sold 80m-records. Is it possible to include them on the list? thanks Politsi (talk) 10:44, 5 April 2013 (UTC)
 * ❌ The 80 million is rather inflated based on their available certified sales, which is 21.5 million. Other news agencies like The Telegraph claim 60 million records for them which also seems inflated but close to what they've actually sold.--Harout72 (talk) 23:53, 5 April 2013 (UTC)

Tom Petty and the Heartbreakers
Harout, i hope you're not sick with my question day by day?. is it possible to bring them back to the list with 80m-records claim from this source? (http://www.belpernews.co.uk/lifestyle/music/top-talent-at-the-flowerpot-1-5359458). Thanks Politsi (talk) 11:06, 5 April 2013 (UTC)
 * ✅ Their available certified sales are 30.9 million, which suggest that the 60 million claimed by The Independent is just about right compared to the 80 million. But I put them on the list anyways.--Harout72 (talk) 23:48, 5 April 2013 (UTC)

Thank you for your patience of handling an editor like me, what i should to say. I like this list a lot. Politsi (talk) 02:09, 6 April 2013 (UTC)

Christina Aguilera
In the article about Christina Aguilera there are some sources tell that Aguilera has sold 100 million records, with 50 million albums and 52 million singles. So why isn't she on the list? 118.69.148.109 (talk) 04:21, 7 April 2013 (UTC)

The Monkees
Harout, perhaps i forgot but i think i've been asking about this band to you before. As i remember, previously they said to have sold around 50m and 65m-records, but now with the new rule, they has been removed from the list.

I think we should bring them back to the list with 100m-records claim from Daily Mail (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-2109125/Davy-Jones-dead-Revealed-besotted-wife-half-age.html) and this claim is reliable since they have about 25m-certification units and they started their career at 1966, but of course. I need your advice and permission, thanks Politsi (talk) 05:13, 6 April 2013 (UTC)
 * Why do you think we need to bring them back with 100 million claim when their available certified sales are only 24.5 million? Other reliable sources claims that The Monkees have sold 50 million records. Why do we need to have a discussion of this kind for every inflated sales figure that there is out there?--Harout72 (talk) 06:16, 6 April 2013 (UTC)

Harout, thanks for your quick answer. Because if we calculated the amount of their certification sales and compared with the 20% minimum requirement, then 24.5m could cover the 100m-records sales. Please remind me if i'm wrong, because they started their music record in 1966, therefore the 100m-claim is logical for them. And again, i don't want to make this list became a competition, but let's face it. The who and Hallyday only has 23.3m-units in certification and both were in the same year with The Monkees, but why we accept their 100m-records claim while The Monkees not?. Again, this is only my opinion and that's why i'm asking you first. Politsi (talk) 06:43, 6 April 2013 (UTC)
 * Ask yourself this, are there lower claimed figures for The Who and Johnny Hallyday? If there are, then their current inflated sales figures should be replaced. The same goes for all others. There never should be a huge gap between artists' available certified sales and their claimed figures, but if their lowest available claimed figures meet our requirements, then, they can be on the list. But if artists like Johnny Hallyday with under 25 million in certified sales, have lower claimed figures like 50 million or 60 million, they should be removed from the list if they're on the list, because we simply don't have sections for such figures anymore. And such lower sales figures would be in the correct neighborhood for artists with such low certified sales.--Harout72 (talk) 16:19, 6 April 2013 (UTC)

Yes I understand, well that's a good reason. Even i'm actually a little bit dissapointed because The Monkees and The Beach Boys also in my favorite band list. But I accept it. thanks Politsi (talk) 01:29, 8 April 2013 (UTC)

Johny Hallyday
Harout, i want to continue your advice above, what do you think about this source from Billboard (http://www.billboard.com/biz/articles/news/1448501/hallyday-to-split-with-uni-france) which stated that Hallyday records sales at 80m. Do we need to down his position to 80m-list? what do you think? thanks Politsi (talk) 10:23, 8 April 2013 (UTC)
 * Yes, 80 million is more realistic, but it's from 2004 (9 years old). Isn't there something newer stating 80 million records?--Harout72 (talk) 14:58, 8 April 2013 (UTC)

None, only this from 2006 Forbes edition (http://www.forbes.com/2006/01/04/hallyday-warner-vivendi-cx_cn_0104autofacescan14.html), if you think still looks un-reliable for the list, well i think just let him with his 100m-records claim. But is up to you. Politsi (talk) 01:25, 9 April 2013 (UTC)

KATY PERRY
katy perry – — ° ″ ′ ≈ ≠ ≤ ≥ ± − × ÷ ← → · §

please update Katy perry has sold more than 11 million albums and 75 million singles that makes her one of the best selling artists and she has certificated albums up to 9 million and her singles anre more than 40 million that makes her certificated sales more than 50 million and her claim sales can be 75 million

so please pay attention please you have to update this article please 77.44.232.141 (talk) 11:40, 8 April 2013 (UTC)

Reba McEntire
Harout, what do you think about this red-hair country singer? The Press of Atlantic City edition in 19 August 2012 (http://m.pressofatlanticcity.com/news/breaking/review-reba-mcentire-spans--year-country-career-including-new/article_2e7dd9ac-e9a6-11e1-b9b1-0019bb2963f4.html) claim her have sold 80m-records. is this reliable? thanks Politsi (talk) 11:35, 9 April 2013 (UTC)
 * ✅ I put her on the list with the 80 million claim, because other reliable sources which claim 60 million are six years old. If you come across a figure like 75 million, replace the 80 million claim.--Harout72 (talk) 15:26, 9 April 2013 (UTC)

I will, but believe me it's difficult. Even actually, i'm lucky to find that claim for Reba because the others source still claim her around 50-55m records, and it is not reliable because her certification sales quite excellent (nearly 43m) and she started her career since 1987. Politsi (talk) 01:33, 10 April 2013 (UTC)

Rob Thomas
Harout. What do you think about this article from Hartford Courant (http://articles.courant.com/2011-12-26/entertainment/hc-rob-thomas-mohegan-1229-20111226_1_matchbox-twenty-sidewalk-angels-foundation-animal-rights) it is said about 80m-albums of Rob Thomas, i dont know who the h3ll he is but i feel this is not reliable. What do you think? thanks Politsi (talk) 11:02, 10 April 2013 (UTC)
 * All I can say that the 80 million for Rob Thomas is a ridiculous claim. I mean 80 million with only some 2.5 million in U.S. certified sales? And the claim is for albums only when he has one million U.S. certified albums. That figure would be inflated even if one included the sales of Matchbox 20.--Harout72 (talk) 15:18, 10 April 2013 (UTC)

Harout, i believe this list has been famous and attracted so many reader worldwide, including all artist. And i'm sure they would kill to have their name in this list. That's our job to maintain the reliability and the completeness of the list, perhaps i could find the reliable source for their claim and you the one who decided. Yes or not. Politsi (talk) 06:03, 11 April 2013 (UTC)
 * If the he doesn't have enough certified units to be on the list, how can a more reliable source help?--Harout72 (talk) 15:12, 11 April 2013 (UTC)

Harout. That's why i'm so curious to understand why a very prestigious newspaper like Hartford Courant could write something shit about that (Thomas 80m-claim). Perhaps he is so obsessed to be claim as one of the best selling artist of all time in his Wikipedia article. Because i always put the tag of the best selling title to the artist who have their claim figures in this list in their Wikipedia article. Politsi (talk) 01:36, 12 April 2013 (UTC)

Iron Maiden
Where is Iron Maiden? more than 85 million records sold. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.47.222.76 (talk) 12:18, 12 April 2013 (UTC)

Claimed Sales VS Certified Sales
Since when certified sales have to be taken into account? Or should I say since when claimed sales should at least reflect a certain amount of certified sales so it can be considered as reliable? There are no such rules that may suggest that logic. Record companies choose to display their artists' figures or not, plus they have to pay recording industry representatives (RIAA, BPI, etc..) for the publishing. We can only imagine why such Record Companies are obsessed about showing their figures and some other remains narrowed or silent, I just let that educated guess as a task for all of us, we are discussing right?

Moreover I would highly recommend to show only one single figure in the "Claimed sales" area, this can be misleading! 600 million or 500 million or 400 million what's the matter? This does not fit with Wikipedia standards. Finally, I've been studying artists' sales since ages, even though The Beatles, Michael Jackson and Elvis Presley are the best selling artists of all time the figures suggested are still not close to reality, but hey aren't we suppose to bring help around here? I do think so Readerweb (talk) 19:19, 11 April 2013 (UTC)

I would like to highly recommend you to bring something that help the completeness of this list rather than criticism and not helping like above. Read the rules of this list before saying like that and it is important to put the range sales for artist who have claim above 200m-records to avoid too much inflated from the artist sales claim. Politsi (talk) 01:45, 12 April 2013 (UTC)

As a matter of fact, I disagree with the rules of this list, we need to change it :

* First contradiction : "Note 2^ Michael Jackson's sales: According to the Wall Street Journal and diverse news sites, the 750 million units sold by Michael Jackson is an inflated figure that was initially claimed by Raymone Bain (2006),[303][304] who was the singers publicist at that time, without any factual evidence and probably in an effort to promote album sales.[305][306][307] From 2006 until present time, several sources such as MTV, Reuters or Billboard have claimed that Michael Jackson has sold 750 million units,[308][309][310] however, Adrian Strain, a representative from the International Federation of the Phonographic Industry (IFPI) has said that this figure is unreal"

OK then why World Music Awards (based on IFPI sales figures) presented Michael Jackson as the world's best-selling recording-artist of all time back in 2000? Since when we have to refere to some Association representatives without asking them the whole list figures??

* Second contradiction : "Note 2^ Michael Jackson's sales: According to the Wall Street Journal and diverse news sites, the 750 million units sold by Michael Jackson is an inflated figure that was initially claimed by Raymone Bain (2006),[303][304] who was the singers publicist at that time, without any factual evidence and probably in an effort to promote album sales.[305][306][307] From 2006 until present time, several sources such as MTV, Reuters or Billboard have claimed that Michael Jackson has sold 750 million units,[308][309][310] however, Adrian Strain, a representative from the International Federation of the Phonographic Industry (IFPI) has said that this figure is unreal"

If "the 750 million units sold by Michael Jackson is an inflated figure" which I believe it's true, how the 600 millions of The Beatles could be considered as true figures? Because of their certifications that are stronger than Jackson's?? Really? Remember since 1985 All papers and magazines stated that Elvis Presley and The Beatles sold more then 1 billion discs worldwide which was fictional and promotional.

* Recommendation : We do need to get "certified area" as much updated as possible but we also need to get the "claimed sales" area clean, i.e one single figure for each artist not 2 or 3 (the highest or the lowest I don't mind) because this is misleading and may be considered as a Discrimination or favoritism. Readerweb (talk) 13:01, 13 April 2013 (UTC)

Record Estimate
Hi, I noticed that the claimed figures section for Michael Jackson's sales estimate states that he has sold approximately 400/350/300 million records. I would like to point out that all three of these figures have been retrieved from sources dating back to 2009; precisely around time of his death. Therefore, the claimed figures of 400/350/300 million not only puts him strangely close to Madge but they also don't appreciate the occurrence of posthumous sales. This Billboard article written on June 25th, 2011 clearly states that within two years of his death, Jackson sold 26.9 million records in the United States alone as well as 50 million records ww within his one year anniversary. In fact, within two weeks of his death Jackson's posthumous sales were the highest ever, stripping Elvis Presley and John Lennon of their titles. It seems that all of the sources estimating Jackson's sales (as well as the country by country tally) are extraordinarily dated to either before or very close to his time of death. Lastly, I think that the specific source used for his Japanese certified sales aren't counting anything before 1989.

Thanks for reading, I'm sort of obsessed with the significance of posthumous considering that's how Presley sold nearly half of his total tally. VoguePlease (talk) 10:57, 5 April 2013 (UTC)

To whom you say it? is not clear what you say?. Are you write something related with this list? Politsi (talk) 11:03, 5 April 2013 (UTC)
 * The fact that Michael Jackson's available certified are 157 million from the markets that cover 90% of the global sales, clearly suggests that his actual sales was somewhere around 200-250 million before his death. His posthumous records sales should bring his total around 300 million by now. The sources we use for Japanese market, aren't for his actual sales, those are for his available certified sales. Japan's 1 million-seller database which covers albums that have sold one million units, doesn't contain a single album by Jackson that has sold one million units. And their Gold/Platinum database posts certifications issued since 2003, and this is why we keep our requirements for certified sales low.--Harout72 (talk) 15:42, 5 April 2013 (UTC)

Sorry VoguePlease, but this is clearly is a Argumentum ad verecundiam and Argumentum ad antiquitatem. There is ample evidence that the figure of 750 million is and will remain an unrealistic figure. Mr. Jackson and his team, always characterized by great marketing strategies (including hoaxes). And 750 million from 2006? (This figure was consolidated in obituaries); Even, The certifications in those time were extremely poor. In fact, the 157 million have the certifications after his death. Regards, Chrishonduras (talk) 20:16, 9 April 2013 (UTC)

Harout72, Hi, I took a look at the certified units page you sent me and I noticed how dated the numbers were. It's obvious -judging by the Billboard article I've provided- that Jackson's singles and album sales have not in the least bit been updated on the list. Considering that his record sales peak occurred between the 80's and 90's it seems reasonable (judging from the page requirements) to expect 20-50% in certifiable units. Considering these factors, I think that the 300/350 million estimation (especially the 300 million) is rather low and senseless. 50 million records ww in a year should provide some sort of leeway. It is also significant to note that the RIAA must be asked to certify and track units by the artist's label, so it's rather obvious that Sony hasn't done so for Jackson's past records. 4 years later, it is rather safe to estimate that his global posthumous sales push 70 million (considering the addition of 'Michael' and 'This is It' and the 60-80% requirement). Thanks for reading. VoguePlease (talk) 20:15, 11 April 2013 (UTC)


 * VoguePlease, you are not entirely correct when you say Sony has failed to submit the fee to certify Jackson's records in the past. Of course some singles are under certified but it seems that Sony has paid the fee for most records that needed to be certified before his death and after as well. If you look at the certification-dates at RIAA database, you'll see that all those albums and three out of four singles that are mentioned in your Billboard source, have all been re-certified after his death. That includes


 * Number Ones re-certified on August 21, 2009 as 3x Platinum (previously it was certified just Platinum on November 18, 2005), added 2 million units to his posthumous sales.
 * This Is It re-certified on December 4, 2009 as 2x Platinum, added 2 million units to his posthumous sales.
 * Thriller re-certified on August 21, 2009 as 29x Platinum (previously it was certified 28x Platinum on March 6, 2009), added 1 million units to his posthumous sales.
 * The Essential Michael Jackson certified on August 21, 2009 at 2x Platinum, added 2 million units to his posthumous sales.
 * "Billie Jean" certified on August 21, 2009 as Gold in Mastertone format, added 500,000 units to his posthumous sales.
 * "Beat It" certified on August 21, 2009 as Gold in Mastertone format, added 500,000 units to his posthumous sales.
 * "Thriller" certified on August 21, 2009 as Gold in Mastertone format, added 500,000 units to his posthumous sales.


 * Also note that Billboard's article mentions sales of five singles titles from the past, and four have been certified.


 * "Thriller" certified on December 4, 1989 as Platinum, though your source supports overall sales of 2.28 million unis.
 * "Billie Jean" certified on February 14, 1989 as Platinum, your source supports overall sales of 2.18 million units.
 * "Beat It" certified on February 14, 1989 as Platinum, your source support overall sales of 1.84 million units.
 * "Don't Stop 'Til You Get Enough" certified on November 29, 1979 as Gold (This is 1 million units), your source supports 1.43 million units.
 * It's true that some singles can be re-certified. For example, the singles "Thriller" and "Billie Jean" can be re-certified 2x Platinum respectively, but again it's incorrect to assume that most Jackson's records have gone under certified. "Beat It" and "Don't Stop 'Till You Get Enough" can't get re-certified 2x Platinum until they reach sales of two million units. Also, your source supports overall sales of some 27 million after his death. And his posthumous sales was mostly generated within the first two years after his death. --Harout72 (talk) 23:35, 11 April 2013 (UTC)

Harout72, Okay, so it seems we can both agree that the certifications are behind. Billboard states that 2 years after his passing Jackson has sold 27 million posthumous records in the USA alone. It also states that 1 year after his passing 35 million albums have been sold ww. Considering these feats, as well as the lack of re certification despite the occurrence of something as monumental as the passing of a musician, wouldn't you think that Jackson's estimated sales can sit comfortably at 400 million whilst satisfying the Wiki's 20-50% certification requirement (his sales peak was during the 80's and 90's)? Also considering the fact that his sales are rather global with most occurring before the Soundscan era. This just seems like a better decision than the three dated (and shady sourced) estimates.


 * VoguePlease, don't forget to sign your comments. While I'd agree that Jackson has sold some 35-40 million records (singles, albums, videos) after his death, I disagree that his actual records sales were anywhere near 300 or 350 million units before his death. The 400 million seems inflated by good 100 million units based on Jackson's available certified sales. Jackson's true actual sales should be somewhere around the neighborhood of 300 million. At least, that's what his available certified sales suggest. Also, note that we can easily remove the source that states 400 million records, because we're not supposed to keep those claimed figures which are unrealistically far from available certified sales, this is stated at the end of the lead.--Harout72 (talk) 15:45, 15 April 2013 (UTC)