Talk:List of best-selling music artists/Archive 29

Mariah Carey
Harout Carey's single All I want for Christmas is you sales grew to | fourteen million here's another claim by means that her total sales claim should me included with those over 250 million! fidelovkurt 11:30, 9 January 2014 (UTC)
 * Carey's available certified sales are still below 130 million units. That doesn't suggest that the 250 million claimed figures by some news services is correct. As for the single "All I Want for Christmas Is You", I don't see how that single could have sold 14 million with the following certified sales:


 * U.S.: 2.1 million certified units
 * U.K.: 400,000 units
 * Australia: 140,000 units
 * Japan: 1 million physical units, 1 million digital (R format), 250,000 digital units (Full R format)
 * Italy 50,000 units
 * Spain 25,000 units


 * That's total of 4,965,000 units. I'm sure it needs to be re-certified in the U.S., but still the total wouldn't come to 14 million. That is also inflated.--Harout72 (talk) 16:42, 9 January 2014 (UTC)
 * Harout, thank you for the below. How much the certification claims should be to upgrade Carey's total claimed sales to over 250 million? thanks fidelovkurt 07:26, 11 January 2014 (UTC)
 * Carey's certified sales should approach at least the 180-190 border in order for us to consider using higher claimed sales than the current 200 million.--Harout72 (talk) 17:01, 11 January 2014 (UTC)
 * But Harout she is from 1990! Not a newly established artist like Gaga or Bieber for the claims to be that high!!

Beyonce 168 million with 55.8 certified sales
How is that since she had her debut in 2003! and I have to mention Mariah and Celine who according to Beyonce should have their claimed sales over 230 million for sure!! how come fidelovkurt 23:50, 12 January 2014 (UTC)

UB40
Harout, did i mention them already with 75 million records claim? (http://jamaica-star.com/thestar/20120224/ent/ent6.html) thanks. Politsi (talk) 09:27, 15 January 2014 (UTC)
 * BBC reports 70 million records, which is more realistic considering that their certified sales are only 19.5 million.--Harout72 (talk) 16:22, 15 January 2014 (UTC)

thanks for your answer but how about my question regarding alabama above? please dont ignore it. thanks Politsi (talk) 05:11, 16 January 2014 (UTC)

Alabama move to 100 million records claim
Harout, i really need best opinion from you. i know, i'm the one who gave the 75m-albums claims source of them from 2003-USA Today edition

and i try to search a newest source for their 75m-claim, and is not working

but today, i've seen that steve smith from Pasadena Star-News/http://www.pasadenastarnews.com/article/20130815/NEWS/130819804 said in ALL-STAR ALABAMA TRIBUTE ALBUM DUE section that alabama have sold 100 million records

and this source is from 2013, which is more new than 10 years ago-USA Today. I think we have to consider alabama to 100m-section.

Need your advice. thanks Politsi (talk) 08:45, 15 January 2014 (UTC)
 * The 100 million claim is inflated by good 20-25 million based on their available certified sales, 47.5 million. Don't worry about Alabama's source being old, they haven't had any new certifications after 2003 in the U.S. market, or in Canada.--Harout72 (talk) 16:13, 16 January 2014 (UTC)

Bon Jovi sales
In 2004, Bon Jovi released a Box Set titled "100,000,000 Bon Jovi Fans Cant Be Wrong". This release was to celebrate 20 years in the music industry and to mark 100 million records sold. Since then, the band has released 4 more studio albums and 3 DVDs, as well as a Greatest Hits album (both single and double disc versions). Reliable sources state that Bon Jovi have indeed sold 130 million records worldwide (including a VH1 source which I provided). On top of this, their total certified sales definitely fits in with the percentage rule.

Also, the band were previously listed on this list as selling 130 million records, with reliable sources. However they got changed down to 100 million (I'm not sure when). It is clear that Bon Jovi have sold a lot more than 100 million records.

As a side note, the Australian certified sales needs to be updated from 2.3 million to 2.7 million. According to ARIA...

Albums
 * Slippery When Wet = 6x Platinum
 * New Jersey = 2x Platinum
 * Keep The Faith = 3x Platinum
 * Cross Road = 11x Platinum
 * These Days = Platinum
 * Crush = Platinum
 * Bounce = Gold
 * Have a Nice Day = Gold
 * Lost Highway = Gold
 * The Circle = Gold
 * Greatest Hits = 5x Platinum
 * What About Now = Gold

Singles
 * Bed of Roses = Gold
 * In These Arms = Gold
 * Always = 2x Platinum
 * This Ain't a Love Song = Gold
 * It's My Life = Platinum
 * Say It Isn't So = Gold
 * Everyday = Gold
 * Have a Nice Day = Gold

DVD
 * Crush Tour = Platinum
 * This Left Feels Right Live = Gold
 * Lost Highway The Concert = Platinum
 * Bon Jovi Live in Madison Square Garden = Platinum
 * Great Hits DVD = 2x Platinum.

By my calculations, that is 2.7 million in sales.Savvi72 (talk) 09:20, 10 January 2014 (UTC)


 * Note that we include those certifications which come directly from certifying agencies including ARIA. That said, ARIA doesn't have certifications posted for the singles "Bed of Roses" (70,000 units), "In These Arms" (35,000 units), "Always" (140,000 units), "This Ain't a Love Song" (35,000 units). As for the album What About Now, I'm not sure where you're getting the Gold certification for that, it's not on here, or here. As for the certifications included on the list for each market, refer to this file here, it includes all of the certifications that we have for Bon Jovi on this list. Also, if you look at the last two sentences in the lead of the list, it says: Note that this list uses claimed figures that are closer to artists' available certified sales. In other words, inflated claimed figures that will meet the required certified sales amount but are unrealistically high from available certified sales, will not be used.--Harout72 (talk) 14:59, 10 January 2014 (UTC)


 * What About Now has gone gold according to ARIA see here. As for the global sales, it doesnt make sense to keep Bon Jovi at 100 million. It is known fact that they reached 100 million in 2003. Using the 100M figure pretty much discounts any of their sales from 2004 onwards. It is especially disheartening considering there are reliable sources stating they have sold a lot more. What is the point of updating this list if we do not use the latest (reliable) resources. I guess I am fighting a losing battle, so I'll just let it be. Savvi72 (talk) 12:35, 16 January 2014 (UTC)
 * I know that it is claimed that Bon Jovi have sold over 100 million, but that doesn't exactly make it a known fact, based on their available certified sales, 73.5 million. Also, I don't see enough certifications after 2003 to suggest that they've sold 30 million records after that point to present. I see:
 * 7.2 million certified units from the U.S. market, which included Digital singles, Videos, Albums.
 * 850,000 units from Japan
 * 600,000 units from Germany
 * 3.4 million units from the UK (Note that BPI often certifies records years later after albums/singles/videos reach their certification-levels]
 * 620,000 units from Canada
 * 1 million units from Australia
 * 210,000 units from Spain
 * 95,000 units from Switzerland
 * I could go on listing a few more smaller markets, but they're not going to make much of a difference in the total certified sales generated between 2004 onwards. Anyways, once Bon Jovi reaches 85-90 million mark with their certified sales, we'll update their claimed sales from the current 100 to 120 million.--Harout72 (talk) 16:45, 16 January 2014 (UTC)

KATY PERRY UPDATE
katy perry certificated sales is 52.3 million according to you but if you update it now with the new sales : those from Roar wiki page you already have the sources ....

Australia (ARIA)	8× Platinum	560,000

Belgium (BEA)[140]	Gold	      15,000*

Canada (Music Canada	6× Platinum	480,000^

Denmark (IFPI Denmark	2× Platinum	60,000^

Italy (FIMI)	       Platinum	30,000*

New Zealand (RMNZ)	3× Platinum	45,000*

South Korea (Gaon Chart)		120,314

Germany (BVMI)	         Gold	        150,000

Norway (IFPI Norway)	Platinum	10,000*

Sweden (GLF)	    2× Platinum	80,000x

United Kingdom (BPI)	Platinum	719,000

United States (RIAA)	4× Platinum	4,410,000

WW 6.57 mils you have the sources in Roar wiki page

and her album PRISM sales :

those are from Prism wiki page you already have the sources ....

Australia (ARIA 	2× Platinum	179,000

Austria (IFPI Austria)	Platinum	15,000x

Canada (Music Canada)	Platinum	80,000^

Mexico (AMPROFON)	Gold	       30,000^

New Zealand (RMNZ)	Platinum	15,000^

United Kingdom  	Gold	        233,000

US                     Platinum        1,020,000

( http://www.billboard.com/articles/news/5869538/katy-perrys-prism-hits-1-million-sold )

WW 2 Million so her certificated units is up to 59 this support the claim sales for 80 or more

77.44.232.141 (talk) 11:21, 11 January 2014 (UTC)


 * Currently Katy Perry's available certified sales stand at 56.8 million. That can support claimed figures as high as 78 million as Perry has begun charting in 2008. Let me know if there are news agencies claiming such figures.--Harout72 (talk) 16:58, 11 January 2014 (UTC)


 * @harout72 why ?? you can't put her without an article from a news agency !!! you have the certificated sales so I believe it's a must thing to add her thanks .. 77.44.232.141 (talk) 16:45, 17 January 2014 (UTC)
 * Because that is how the concensus is to structure the article, without reliable sources we do not add some artist in the list. And enough with your Katy Perry propaganda. Here or in every other List of.... articles. — Indian: BIO  · [ ChitChat  ] 11:26, 18 January 2014 (UTC)

Tino Rossi
What about Tino Rossi, more than 500 millions records (french wiki) or 300 millions records (english wiki)? 20ce (talk) 12:43, 18 January 2014 (UTC)

Julio Iglesias World Guinnes records 350 million copies.
Hi, I think Julio Iglesias should be in the top ten as per link attached. We are talking about a world Guinness record here. Julio Iglesias Receives World Record Certificate in Beijing Spanish Wikipedia is up to date with this record. I think this should be too.

Thanks. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Hecorman (talk • contribs) 23:37, 20 January 2014 (UTC)

David Bowie
Shouldn't David Bowie be here also? Acording to his wikipedia page he sold more than 140 million albums. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.138.97.150 (talk) 21:52, 23 January 2014 (UTC)

Herb Alpert
Hi harout. i think many artist seems wanted to be labelled with 75m-records claim. please advice about this classic artist how many certification he has, because this source (http://www.winnipegfreepress.com/arts-and-life/entertainment/music/jazz-musician-herb-alperts-totem-sculptures-on-display-in-nyc-park-241741441.html?device=mobile) said him have sold 75 million records.

thanks. Politsi (talk) 05:42, 26 January 2014 (UTC)
 * Not enough certified sales, just 1 million units from the US, 420,000 units from the UK.--Harout72 (talk) 17:48, 26 January 2014 (UTC)

Enrique iglesias
Add enrique to the list his clame of sales is 100 million. Why Russia sales is not counted? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 91.98.8.43 (talk) 09:09, 28 January 2014 (UTC)

""Shakira""
Shakira has sold more than 125 million copies worldwide. Her name must be included. Mewrising (talk) 06:54, 7 January 2014 (UTC)


 * I am awaiting a respose!! Mewrising (talk) 06:51, 12 January 2014 (UTC)
 * OK normally when you expect mutual discussion to take place, you'd want to provide reliable sources (preferably from news agencies) for the claimed figures such as the 125 million units above you're speaking of. Also, this list requires certain amount of certified sales for all artists to be added to the list. The requirements of the certified sales are based on the year the said artist has first charted. See the second yellow box from the top on this page. That said, Shakira has begun charting in 1996, therefore, she needs her claimed figures supported by 52% certified sales. Her current available certified sales stand at 39.4 million units, which can support claimed figures as high as 75 million. Let me know if there is a news agency claiming 75 million for Shakira, we'll put her up on the list.--Harout72 (talk) 17:06, 12 January 2014 (UTC)

Here is a source from Germany claiming 75 million http://www.mediabiz.de/musik/news/shakira-im-dezember-auf-deutschlandtour/291702 Tombo671 (talk) 02:44, 22 January 2014 (UTC)
 * That is not a source we can use, but Berliner Zeitung claims 75 million records, which is a good source, just a bit old, from July 2009. Is there a newer German source claiming the 75 million records?--Harout72 (talk) 16:55, 22 January 2014 (UTC)


 * Her Wikipedia page - Shakira says 125 million copies in the opening paragraph Mewrising (talk) 16:08, 23 January 2014 (UTC)
 * That's far from being the truth though. It's also inflated. Suggest editors who edit her page fix it. — Tomíca (T2ME) 16:13, 23 January 2014 (UTC)

Mewrising, I see that in the lead of her main article, it says having sold a total of 125 million records worldwide, over 70 million albums and 55 million singles, I'm not sure where you see 250 million. The 125 million claim cannot be used here at the List of best-selling music artists as for a claimed figure that high, she'd need 65 million in certified sales. Her available certified sales currently are just below 40 million. That is enough for a 75 million claim, and since there is a German reliable source claiming 75 million for Shakira (although the article is from July 2009), I'll go ahead and put her up on the list with that source.--Harout72 (talk) 16:24, 23 January 2014 (UTC)


 * Thanks, please put up a picture of hers too 14.139.229.35 (talk) 14:12, 26 January 2014 (UTC)

Sorry, only seven artist with the highest certification sales allow to have their picture in the top of each section. Shakira must beat the britain girls and nirvana to get into itPolitsi (talk) 08:55, 27 January 2014 (UTC)


 * okay thanks..though it surprises me that second most popular singer on facebook

couldn't make it to the top seven of the lowest category. It's all available figures, thank you :) 14.139.229.35 (talk) 08:41, 1 February 2014 (UTC)

The Police with 100m-records claim
Hi. harout, need your advice, how many certification sales they have? is it fit enough to support 100m-records claim? because as i remember their claim sales still around 50m-records

however. this source (http://www.koreaherald.com/view.php?ud=20101116000661) said the police have sold 100m-records.

is it reliable? need your help. thanks Politsi (talk) 01:32, 30 January 2014 (UTC)
 * The 100 million in the source is for the combined sales of The Police and Sting as a solo artist.--Harout72 (talk) 06:25, 30 January 2014 (UTC)

Harout, i hope you would take some time to answer and consider my opinion regarding with The Police, we are know that only source from news agency and highly music publish music industry allow to be use on the list, however i see this source (http://www.bankrate.com/ffnd/news/investing/20061219_fame_fortune_andy_summers_a1.asp)

Published from Bankrate which is one of the highly regarded and fastest-growing media company, this source said The Police have sold 75m-records and this source was release in 2006 which is earlier from this list i think. So, if The Police have a quite sufficient certification to get 75m-records claim, i think we should consider this source. Need your advice, thanks Politsi (talk) 01:48, 3 February 2014 (UTC)
 * The Police have 37.7 million in certified sales, and can be brought on the list, but not with a source which specializes in finance. We need that figure to come from a news service. Anyways, if there isn't one, don't worry as their available certified sales suggest that their true actual sales should be in the neighborhood of 55-60 million, maximum.--Harout72 (talk) 02:38, 3 February 2014 (UTC)

Eminem to 200 million section
Harout, i'm awaring Eminem certification sales has been reach 97m and since he just release a new album, meaning that sooner his certification sales could be pass 100m, then the 100m-records claim of him no longer reliable to be use in this list.

I've try to find another claim around 120m-150m records from reliable source, but is not working. However this source (http://www.herald.co.zw/eminem-heading-to-sa/) from The Herald Zimbabwe said him have sold 80m-albums and 120m-singles/200m-combined.

Need your advice, is it possible to put him in the 200m-records section if his certification sales has been pass the 100m-sales? what do you think? thanks Politsi (talk) 02:12, 3 February 2014 (UTC)
 * Based on his available certified sales (97.3 million), Eminem still can only be listed with claims as high as 167.8 million . For 200 million records, he needs 116 million in certified sales. I'll keep your source in mind, and when he reaches 116 million with his certified sales, I'll update his source. In the meantime, see if you can find something higher than our current 100 million claim, but below 170 million.--Harout72 (talk) 02:50, 3 February 2014 (UTC)

Paul Rodgers
Harout, did i mention him already? need your advice about his certification sales total because The Jersey Journal (http://www.nj.com/camden/index.ssf/2010/06/paul_rodgers_from_bad_company.html) said him have sold 90m-records. Is it reliable? thanks Politsi (talk) 08:09, 3 February 2014 (UTC)
 * Can't find any certifications.--Harout72 (talk) 17:10, 3 February 2014 (UTC)

Britney Spears
Britney sold most than 100 million of ALBUNS and 90 million of SINGLES,total = 195 million. Rihanna sold 40 million of albuns and 110 of singles,total = 150 million — Preceding unsigned comment added by MoreMoneyGomes (talk • contribs) 14:35, 6 February 2014 (UTC)

RIAJ Cert. for Guns N' Roses
Japanese available certified sales for Guns N' Roses (ガンズ・アンド・ローゼズ) is under-estimated.

"Sympathy for the Devil" ―　Gold ― Apr '95 (50,000) --Fugreena 02:14, 8 February 2014 (UTC)
 * Albums
 * Use Your Illusion II ―　2&times; Platinum ― Nov '93 (400,000 units)
 * The Spaghetti Incident? ―　Platinum ― Dec '93 (200,000)
 * GN'R Lies ―　Gold ― Feb '94 (100,000)
 * Use Your Illusion I ―　2&times; Platinum ― Feb '94 (400,000)
 * Appetite For Destruction ―　Platinum ― Mar '94 (200,000)
 * Live Era '87-'93 ―　Gold ― Dec '99 (100,000)
 * Greatest Hits ―　Gold ― Mar '04 (100,000)
 * Chinese Democracy ―　Gold ― Nov '08 (100,000)
 * Singles
 * Cumulative certified-sales 1993-2013
 * 1.65 million units ― (1,600,000 albums + 50,000 singles)
 * Got it. Somehow, I'd forgotten to update the total for Japan, although had it correct on my file. Thanks for bringing it up.--Harout72 (talk) 16:54, 8 February 2014 (UTC)

David Bowie
Why is David Bowie not on this list? His claimed sales are 140 million according to sources like this: http://www.ctvnews.ca/entertainment/david-bowie-exhibition-set-to-open-at-art-gallery-of-ontario-1.1468210. In terms of certified units, Bowie has sold over 21 million units in the UK, US, and Canada alone (trust me, I did a little calculating; I have not even begun to count other countries' sales, I just wanted to show my point). That's about 15% of his claimed sales. I don't have an exact country-by-country analysis, but that's what I got. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Wildboy7 (talk • contribs) 08:04, 5 February 2014 (UTC)

David bowie could be include on this list with maximum 80m to 100m-records claim, no higher than that and please find the reliable source for that claim from news agency Politsi (talk) 09:36, 5 February 2014 (UTC)

I'll try finding more country certifications. I am sure that I can find enough certifications to justify the 140 million record claims because, as I said, the 21 million records were from just three countries: UK, US, and Canada. If I looked for more certifications from countries like France, Germany, Australia, the Netherlands, Japan, etc. I am sure that I could easily justify the 140 million claim. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Wildboy7 (talk • contribs) 09:46, 5 February 2014 (UTC)


 * David Bowie's total available certified sales coming from 10 music markets are only 25.5 million units. That is not enough to suggest that he's sold 140 million records. Based on his currently available certified sales, Bowie cannot have sold more than 60-70 million records (albums, singles, videos). The 140 million coming from some sources is completely inflated for promotional purposes. In any case, this list requires all artists to have certain amount of certified sales to get on the list. That information can be found in the second yellow box from the top on this very page. That said, Bowie's claimed figures need to be supported by 20% certified sales at least.--Harout72 (talk) 12:44, 5 February 2014 (UTC)
 * For your information, the list misses a Japanese certification for the album Earthling released in 1997 and awarded Gold in 1999. --Fugreena 20:07, 7 February 2014 (UTC)
 * What month of 1999?--Harout72 (talk) 20:24, 7 February 2014 (UTC)
 * title=アースリング, artist=デヴィッド・ボウイ, label=BMG, released= Feb 1 1997, certified = May 1999, announced on the page 9 of The Record No.476 (July 1999) --Fugreena 02:14, 8 February 2014 (UTC)
 * Got it. I'd missed it because of Google's strange translation (EarthLink, / Thewa , Itsudo Bowie / 1997. 02.01 (BMG)).--Harout72 (talk) 03:49, 8 February 2014 (UTC)

Well? what then? is he fit enough to enter the list? even with 130m records claim? (http://edition.cnn.com/2013/03/22/showbiz/uk-david-bowie-exhibition/) thanks Politsi (talk) 06:25, 8 February 2014 (UTC)


 * He still needs to collect a few hundred thousand units more to get on the list with 130 million. I'll keep your source above in mind. Once Bowie reaches 26 million with his certified sales, I'll put him up on the list.--Harout72 (talk) 17:00, 8 February 2014 (UTC)

Madonna
Hi, first: i'm sorry for my english, i don't speak english. Madonna sales are bad, their numbers are set to more than 300 or 250 million, its sales are 500 million more, but I have proof are in Spanish but they translate the texts: -third paragraph: http://www.generaccion.com/noticia/107815/madonna-esta-vuelta-graba-nuevo-disco-julio Madonna, considered the "Queen of Pop", has sold over 500 million albums worldwide making it the most successful solo artist of all time.

-third paragraph: http://www.lacosarosa.com/madonna-entre-las-mujeres-mas-poderosas-e-influyentes-del-siglo-xx.html If we talk on economic issues we were short with more than 500 million albums worldwide and has sold part of the Guinness Records as the most successful and biggest musical of all time selling female artist. Not to mention the Grammy and Golden Globe he has in his cabinet.

-second paragraph, section "la chica material" http://web.archive.org/web/20130520233407/http://www.eltiempo.com/archivo/documento/CMS-8021524 Madonna has sold over 500 million albums worldwide and has the world record for "the most successful female artist of all time" by the Guinness Records. With its particular aesthetic and reinvent the way, has become an icon for three generations.

Thanks.--186.173.120.62 (talk) 05:41, 12 February 2014 (UTC)

This list has been built with a purpose to gave a nearly fact and reliable source for artist records sales claim, and to avoid inflated sales figure which is often use by those artist to promote their image in media. Madonna need at least 300m-in certification sales to reach 500m-claim. Politsi (talk) 02:45, 13 February 2014 (UTC)

Iron Maiden
Harout, sorry if this question has been bothering you many times but surely i forgot. How many certification sales of that band, is it fit enough to claim 80m-records? (http://www.irishtimes.com/business/economy/iron-maiden-frontman-to-speak-at-summit-1.1564223) thanks Politsi (talk) 02:12, 14 February 2014 (UTC)

Harout, if 80m-records still look inflated. How about 75m-albums? (http://www.theguardian.com/music/musicblog/2010/mar/25/iron-maiden-olympics) thanks. Politsi (talk) 04:51, 14 February 2014 (UTC)
 * For 75 million albums, Iron Maiden need at least 20 million certified albums. They don't even have 15 million certified albums. In fact, their entire available certified sales are only 16.4 million.--Harout72 (talk) 05:45, 14 February 2014 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 16 February 2014
Beyoncé should be reviewed

190.22.174.132 (talk) 19:08, 16 February 2014 (UTC)

If you want to suggest a change, please request this in the form "Please replace XXX with YYY" or "Please add ZZZ between PPP and QQQ". Please also cite reliable sources to back up your request, without which no information should be added to any article. - Arjayay (talk) 19:19, 16 February 2014 (UTC)
 * Red information icon with gradient background.svg Not done: as you have not requested a specific change.

Pink certification sales total
Harout, need your help again. her claim records still controversials since many source cited her with 110m-sales or more. actually how many of her certification sales exactly?

Is it fit enough for 98m-claim? (http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/08/06/idUS163615+06-Aug-2012+BW20120806) thanks. Politsi (talk) 02:16, 18 February 2014 (UTC)
 * Actually, Pink needs her claimed figures supported by 60% certified sales as she's begun charting in 2000. That is 58.8 million certified units she needs for claims as high as 98 million. Pink's available certified sales are so far 50.3 million.--Harout72 (talk) 06:47, 18 February 2014 (UTC)

Bruno Mars certification sales total
Harout, need your help about his certification sales total? is it fit enough to reach 108 million records sales? it seem's a very high record claim sales for such new artists like him.

this source (http://www.utsandiego.com/news/2013/Jul/24/bruno-mars-talks-musical-inspiration/) said him have sold 100m-singles and 8m-albums.

Wow!. Harout, need your advice. thanks Politsi (talk) 05:04, 17 February 2014 (UTC)
 * The claims about the 6 million for Doo-Wops & Hooligans and 2 million for Unorthodox Jukebox bot make sense. But 100 million for digital singles? That cannot be right. Anyways, he needs his claimed figures supported by 76% certified sales as he's begun charting in 2010. That is 82 million certified units for 108 million claim. I'll go over his available certified sales, but I highly doubt that he's anywhere close to what he needs in order to get on this list.--Harout72 (talk) 16:25, 17 February 2014 (UTC)
 * Bruno Mars' available certified sales are 57.5 million. He's short by 24.5 million in certified units to get on the list with 108 million claim. But he can get on this list with a 75 million claim as he's got enough certified sales for that much.--Harout72 (talk) 18:12, 18 February 2014 (UTC)

List
According to Agnetha Fältskog, ABBA sold over 370 million albums making them the 2-3 best selling band of all time. I'm not sure if the pages count the albums differently or what but it doesn't add up. --Jacksoncw (talk) 22:52, 20 February 2014 (UTC)
 * This list largely relies on artists' certified sales. And based on their available certified sales, they could not have sold more than 100-120 million records (albums, singles, videos).--Harout72 (talk) 00:37, 21 February 2014 (UTC)

Jay Z certification sales total?
Harout, i need your help. How many certification sales total of him?. i have a good feeling about his certification sales, it seems very good and even deserve to get 100m-sales claim.

I see this source from online newspaper WAtoday (http://www.watoday.com.au/tv/Celebrities/Jay-Z--Free-Force-2661022.html) and it is said that the rapper has sold 75m-records. i know, the source seems not so reliable

However, i think we should consider this source for while and bring Jay Z to the list. And then if there's another and better source for his claim. I will change it.

Need your advice and consider. thanks Politsi (talk) 01:35, 17 February 2014 (UTC)
 * Can we find another source? That is not for us. But Jay-Z has enough certified sales to get on this list with 75 million claim. In fact, even if we could find sources that claim 80 or 85 million, he could still be brought up on the list as his available certified sales are now 64.6 million.--Harout72 (talk) 16:32, 17 February 2014 (UTC)

Harout, like i said before. i already know that source (from WA today) seem's not reliable but adequate enough to be trust. And i suggest we use that source for while until we find another reliable source for him. Jay Z certification sales is so excellent (65-m) and there's no way to block him entering the list i think.

Remember when Rihanna certification sales reach 100m-claim, you use the source from BET for her claim for while eventhough we're already know that source un-acceptable here, and then i replace it with source from Euronews and latter from The New Zealand Herald.

Once again, i need your consider. believe me, once I re-new Jay Z biography with the title of being "the best-selling with 75m-records". the other source will follow.

Need your consider. thanks Politsi (talk) 02:04, 18 February 2014 (UTC)
 * I'm sorry, that source really won't do for us. It's no rush, whenever something better comes up, we'll put him up on the list.--Harout72 (talk) 06:49, 18 February 2014 (UTC)

Harout, is this source fit enough to support the 75m-records of him (http://beaconhill.patch.com/groups/events/p/jay-z-afterparty--greatest-bar_2ee0123d). To be honest, i really want his name to be include on the list, especially when i comparing his certification sales with the other artists in the 75m-list. Jay Z is the best, even better than his wife.

Harout, need your consider. thanks Politsi (talk) 04:56, 21 February 2014 (UTC)


 * OK, I added Jay-Z to the list with the article from Patch, but we should later replace that when we come across something better.--Harout72 (talk) 05:49, 21 February 2014 (UTC)

Thanks harout, I will. You know me, who can keep all claim sources in this list better than me. Politsi (talk) 07:11, 21 February 2014 (UTC)

The Miami Sound Machine
Harout, this source (http://www.scmp.com/article/430811/gloria-estefan) which talking about Gloria Estefan, mention the band have sold 75m-albums.

Need your help, how many certification sales of the band? especially their albums sales only. is it fit enough to gain 75m-albums claim?

thanks. Politsi (talk) 02:06, 22 February 2014 (UTC)
 * Gloria Estefan is already on the list. All those certifications for Miami Sound Machine count toward Gloria Estefan. Initially, it was Gloria Estefan & Miami Sound Machine.--Harout72 (talk) 02:48, 22 February 2014 (UTC)

Katy Perry certification sales
Harout. Need your help, how many so far her certification sales total? is she ready to be join this list as one of the world's greatest selling artists with 86m-claim (http://www.thestar.com.my/Lifestyle/Entertainment/Movies/News/2013/08/15/Roaring-good-time.aspx/)?

thanks. Politsi (talk) 02:06, 25 February 2014 (UTC)
 * Perry needs 62.6 million certified units for 86 million claim. She's still at 58 million. But your source is a tabloid, not exactly a traditional newspaper. We have a better source for that the same amount. --Harout72 (talk) 06:01, 25 February 2014 (UTC)

Yes, and that better source also provided by me previously...hehe.. and since perry just release a new album and her two singles recently topped the chart worldwide, i think she will reach that certified units amount to enter the list. we need to keep eye on that. Politsi (talk) 07:28, 25 February 2014 (UTC)

Donna Summer 100m-records claim
Harout, please view this source (http://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=1955&dat=20080722&id=sgUvAAAAIBAJ&sjid=GaIFAAAAIBAJ&pg=1034,3833784) it is a scan copy from Reading Eagle newspaper and release in 2008.

Inside it is said that summer sold 100m-records. I always consider her claim is too high with 130m-records. Need your advice, could we use that source to reduce Summer claim figure? thanks Politsi (talk) 02:51, 26 February 2014 (UTC)
 * I found the online version of the same article. I replaced Summer's source and moved her downwards on the list. Good catch.--Harout72 (talk) 06:04, 26 February 2014 (UTC)

George Strait 150m-Albums claim
Harout, as i remember this country singer previously claim sales at 70m-albums. However, this source (http://www.theoaklandpress.com/arts-and-entertainment/20140212/sound-check-george-strait-rides-into-the-sunset) said him having sold 150m-albums.

Need your help, how many exactly his albums certification sales? is it fit enough to gain the 150m-albums sales?. I know this claim seems too hight if we compare with his previous claim.

But, i think we need to be consistent with our rules. If his certification albums sales quite enough to reach the claim, we have to welcome him to the list. But, if we find another reliable source which claim his sales lower that that amount (at least 75m) then we must replace it immediately.

what do you think? thanks. Politsi (talk) 05:06, 27 February 2014 (UTC)
 * Well, Strait's certified albums alone stand at 72.2 million, which isn't even 50% of the 150 million claim. Based on that, his claimed figures for albums should not be more than 100-110 million. The 150 million is really inflated, isn't there anything else around 120 million maximum?--Harout72 (talk) 12:03, 27 February 2014 (UTC)

Nope, I've been looking for another reliable source, but his claim sales still stuck at 68-70m-claim/album which is so wrong if we compare with his excellent certification sales.

Harout, I suggest we let Strait enter the list with 150m-albums claim because his excellent certification album nearly reach 50% and he's kind of old country artist. So in my opinion, 150m-albums figures is not too much for him.

But, you decided. need your advice. thanks Politsi (talk) 04:06, 28 February 2014 (UTC)

Katy Perry
Hi harout, hahaha.... nice to see you there. why we don't let her with the new claim 92 million (http://www.couriermail.com.au/entertainment/katy-perry-talks-being-the-worlds-biggest-pop-star-and-checking-out-the-competition/story-fnic6ynx-1226849202551)

because, her certification still counting. need your advice. thanks Politsi (talk) 05:19, 10 March 2014 (UTC)
 * She needs 2.3 million more certified units, and we can then use your source. I'll take care of it once she reaches 67 million, don't worry.--Harout72 (talk) 05:22, 10 March 2014 (UTC)

Christina Aguilera
Hello, I am just wondering if you could check the certified units for Christina Aguilera since this source|source claims her sales to be 100 million worldwide. Thanks! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.246.148.98 (talk) 19:08, 10 March 2014 (UTC)
 * Your source cannot be found, but Aguilera's available certified sales stand at 44.5 million. Since she's begun charting in 1999, she needs her claimed figures supported by 58% certified sales, meaning she can be listed with claimed figures as high as 76 million records (albums, singles, videos).--Harout72 (talk) 22:48, 10 March 2014 (UTC)
 * Thanks for responding! Sorry for the broken link I was trying to make look better than just posting the link but here is the original link stating 100 million records worldwide (http://www.theguardian.com/music/christinaaguilera). If her certified sales equate to 44.5 million, does that mean the highest potential listed could be 76 million? Thanks for the help! It's greatly appreciated! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.246.148.98 (talk) 03:26, 12 March 2014 (UTC)
 * Yes, 76 million records is the highest Agulera can be listed with. Detailed information about the requirements of the certified sales amount can be found in the second box from the top on this very talk page.--Harout72 (talk) 15:29, 12 March 2014 (UTC)
 * So, in order for this artist to be added to this page, I must find a source stating 76 million records sold, or could we use the previous source and just lower the amount to 76 million? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.246.148.98 (talk) 19:31, 12 March 2014 (UTC)
 * Yes, in order for Aguilera to be inserted into the list, the source must state maximum of 76 million records. Your second suggestion cannot be done as the stated sales figures must correpond with what's in the sources.--Harout72 (talk) 00:24, 13 March 2014 (UTC)

A R Rahman
Why isn't A R Rahman included? "AR Rahman had sold by 2004 more that 150 million records of his film scores and soundtracks Worldwide and sold over 200 million cassettes,making him one of the world's all-time top selling recording artists." Check out these:
 * 
 * 
 * 
 * 

It is 200m+ as of 2007 (see 4th link) - 117.203.228.115 (talk) 16:16, 5 March 2014 (UTC)
 * This list requires certified sales. This is stated in the lead as well as in the second box from top on this talk page.--Harout72 (talk) 16:27, 5 March 2014 (UTC)
 * Where and how do I find it by the way? - 117.203.229.58 (talk) 06:01, 21 March 2014 (UTC)
 * There are almost no certifications available for Rahman, I've already checked. The certification databases are posted at the bottom of the second yellow box on this talk page.--Harout72 (talk) 14:56, 21 March 2014 (UTC)

Mariah Carey
Dear Harout, Please I want to know to what level should Carey's certification reach to update the total claimed sales to 220 million ? AND 250 million? fidelovkurt 08:55, 14 March 2014 (UTC)
 * Well, the last time you and I had this the same conversation back in January 2014, Carey's certified sales were 128.3, and now it is just 300,000 units more. So, if Carey continues to gather her certifications at this slow rate, I'd say it might take years for us to use anything higher than 200 million claim. At the moment, based on her available certified sales, the 175 million seems inflated by some 20 million units.--Harout72 (talk) 15:28, 14 March 2014 (UTC)
 * Harout, I can see that Carey's certifications increased by additional 300,000!? which market was updated ? fidelovkurt 12:45, 23 March 2014 (UTC)
 * See the edit history. I always briefly explain my updates in edit summaries. Between March 14 and now, Carey's certified sales have been updated twice, 100,000 units (Gold) for Japan, and 200,000 (Silver single) for the UK. See this file of mine for details.--Harout72 (talk) 17:38, 23 March 2014 (UTC)

Julio Iglesias
The data is incorrect, about an old reference (1998). Today, Julio receives world guiness record, for latin singer ( more or less 300 m. copies) Please check it and correct. Regards, 194.5.134.185 (talk) 13:59, 24 March 2014 (UTC)

Katy Perry
what about updating her certification units specially in the US cuz it seems u didn't add Prism sales and the three singles ( Roar, unconditional and Dark horse ) or you are waiting something ??

thx 77.44.232.141 (talk) 11:08, 25 March 2014 (UTC)
 * Where are you getting the idea that RIAA has issued a certification for Prism, there is none yet. The certifications for the singles "Roar" (6x Platinum=6 million units), "Unconditionally" (Platinum=1 million units), "Dark Horse" (3x Platinum=3 million units) have all been included in the U.S. total certified sales. For details as to what's been included on the list see this file.--Harout72 (talk) 14:43, 25 March 2014 (UTC)

Lady Gaga
According to this source: (http://www.billboard.com/articles/news/5785652/lady-gaga-artpop-release-events-to-be-live-streamed-exclusive), it does state that Gaga has sold 149 million records worldwide. Have we recently checked her certified units so the change could be made? Thank you! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.246.148.98 (talk) 19:18, 12 March 2014 (UTC)
 * Gaga needs her claimed figures supported by 72.8% certified sales as she's begun charting in 2008, that would be 108 million certified units for 149 million claim. She currently has only 61.2 million.--Harout72 (talk) 03:08, 15 March 2014 (UTC)

New numbers for Gaga's total sold worldwide are in. According to this source: (http://articles.philly.com/2013-11-07/news/43734133_1_stefani-germanotta-lady-gaga-troy-carter), Gaga has sold 114 million units worldwide. I am wondering if this number is acceptable since the previous higher number was too much. If this number is also too much, could someone please tell me the acceptable highest number possible? Please respond, Thanks! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.246.148.98 (talk) 22:36, 31 March 2014 (UTC)
 * Gaga needs 83 million certified units to be listed with 114 million claim. Her current 61.6 million certified units are enough for 84 million claim.--Harout72 (talk) 23:06, 31 March 2014 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 4 April 2014
On the page of the List of best-selling music artists, It states that music artist Beyonce have sold 75 million when in fact Beyonce have sold over 118 Million records as a solo artist. I am requesting for Beyonce musical sells be promoted to the 120 million mark. It states on Beyonce personal Wikipedia page that she has sold over 118 million records. Please Change Beyonce's musical sells from the 75 million mark to the 120 million mark.Kingkakashi20 (talk) 23:38, 4 April 2014 (UTC)

Kingkakashi20 (talk) 23:38, 4 April 2014 (UTC)
 * Red information icon with gradient background.svg Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. Blogs are not considered reliable sources... — &#123;&#123;U&#124;Technical 13&#125;&#125; (t • e • c) 02:09, 5 April 2014 (UTC)

Lead: Madonna's Record
''Currently, The Beatles are listed at the top of the list as they are considered the highest-selling band based both on sales claims and certified units. Elvis Presley, who is listed the second on the list is considered the highest-selling individual artist based both on sales claims and certified units.''

Is necesary add that "[And....] Madonna the fourth on the list, is considered the highest selling individual female artist based both on sales claims and certified units. This is a world record, and is true on the list. Why not add this information, like The Beatles (the best-selling band and artist) and Elvis Presley (the best-selling solo and male artist)? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 186.120.17.125 (talk) 22:39, 7 April 2014 (UTC) PS: Furthermore, She is the living artist who has sold more

This list was built to explain the best-selling artist in the world but not for praising them. Politsi (talk) 01:53, 8 April 2014 (UTC)

Bruno Mars's 10m-albums and 68m-singles
Hi Harout. Regarding with Mars's records sales, what do you think about this source (http://www.expatch.org/2014/03/20/bruno-mars-live-in-manila-22-march-2014/) this source is a website, news source, blogger environment, calendar and newsletter for expats and foreign business people working in the Philippines. It is the only website of Philippines's with full-time staff that regularly update its content.

In that source, there is 78m-records claim of Bruno Mars. I know this source is not completely reliable (not a newspaper) however, this source only publish articles that are rich and relevant in content, not accept articles for self-promotion (http://www.expatch.org/about/).

Therefore, that news source could be reliable. Harout, if Mars's certification sales are adequate enough to get 78m-claim, i think we could use that source for while until there's a better source come.

Need your advice. thanks Politsi (talk) 04:12, 8 April 2014 (UTC)
 * No, that's not a source for us, we'd better wait for Bruno Mars to collect 82 million certified units for the 108 million claim. His certified sales are already at 58.7 million units. Let me know if you come across a reliable source that claims some 77 or 78 million records.--Harout72 (talk) 04:47, 8 April 2014 (UTC)

Julio Iglesias sales should be corrected
Julio Iglesias has sold almost 400M copies. In fact, he is one of the top 5 best-selling artist in music history. Sources: http://www.guinnessworldrecords.com/news/2013/4/julio-iglesias-receives-world-record-certificate-in-beijing-47865/

AVMJ (talk) 14:11, 8 April 2014 (UTC)
 * This list requires all claims to be supported by certain amount of certified sales based on the first year the said artist has begun charting. This information is posted in the second box from the top on this talk page.--Harout72 (talk) 14:54, 8 April 2014 (UTC)

Beyoncé
According to CBS (http://www.cbsnews.com/news/how-gradual-success-helped-beyonce-28-01-2010/), Beyoncé has sold a total of 118 million units worldwide. I am wondering if Harout or someone could check Beyoncé's certified units seeing as she just released an album 3 months ago. Thanks! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.246.148.98 (talk) 17:45, 14 March 2014 (UTC)
 * Beyonce's certified sales stand at 57.3 million units (albums, singles videos). Beyonce's begun charting in 2003 as a solo artists, therefore, her claimed figures need to be supported by 64.8% certified sales. That is 76.4 million certified units for claims as high as the 118 million.--Harout72 (talk) 00:30, 15 March 2014 (UTC)
 * Okay! Thanks for checking! Do you also mind checking Lady Gaga's certified units since the previous section's problem hasn't been answered yet? Thank you. --Kworbi

im sorry, but including beyonce's certified sales for her new album, haven't these figures gone up yet? now she has 136,660,000 in record sales. please check this source http://atrl.net/forums/showthread.php?t=323424. these are real figures. and also i checked lady gaga's figures, they are correct. also, for artists like justin timberlake and beyonce aren't their group sales included? (nsync and DC?)please lok at these too http://www.riaa.com/newsitem.php?id=c91c40e1-a65a-0f81-ebb3-8fe3b7c0ecea (beyonce has 60+ certifications) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 120.59.171.196 (talk) 16:36, 29 March 2014 (UTC)
 * The 64 certifications for U.S. (RIAA), do not translate to 60+ million units in certified sales. It simply says 64 Gold and Platinum-awards. The Platinum-certification-level for Video-longform is only 100,000 units, she has 12 Platinum-awards for Video-longforms and one Gold (50,000 units), that is 1,250,000 units. Also, she has four Gold-awards for Digital singles, which are certified before September 2006, when the levels for Digital download were only 100,000 units for Gold. Those single are: "Naughty Girls", "Crazy in Love", "Baby Boy", "Check on It". Since December 13, 2013, that is when her last album was released, Beyonce's total certified sales has gone up from 55.5 million to 57.3 million. For Beyonce's detailed certified sales refer to this file.--Harout72 (talk) 17:32, 29 March 2014 (UTC)

thanks for the quick response. however that file you told me to look at is just a document. what is the proof of its legibility? im sorry im not trying to argue for arguing's sake. im genuinely wondering. and can you please tell me where do you get to know certified sales figures from? im interested in this and would like to know. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 59.177.74.83 (talk) 07:07, 30 March 2014 (UTC)


 * The file that I uploaded has the source(s) of each music market at the bottom of each section, that's where you need to go to see the certification-awards. We also have all available certification-databases for each music market listed on this talk page. See the second yellow box from the top on this page, at the very bottom of that box, you will find certification-databases. For changes in certification-levels you can refer to the list's Notes section (See the sources in the second section of the Notes).--Harout72 (talk) 16:56, 30 March 2014 (UTC)

"Drunk in Love" is now certified Platinum by the RIAA. —JennKR | ☎ 18:09, 9 April 2014 (UTC)

R. Kelly's 100m-albums
Harout, how many of his certification sales albums only? is it fit enough to reach 100m-albums claim? (http://www.courier-journal.com/story/entertainment/music/2014/03/31/r-kelly-louisville/7128917/)

need your advice. thanks Politsi (talk) 01:35, 11 April 2014 (UTC)

and Harout, there is no source claim with 100m-records of Kelly so far. Politsi (talk) 02:44, 11 April 2014 (UTC)
 * For 100 million album claim, R. Kelly needs 46 million certified units for albums. He has only 37.2 million. His total certified sales stand at 51.3 million. That could translate into some 75 million records.--Harout72 (talk) 03:29, 11 April 2014 (UTC)

what happen with Shakira?
Harout, where's her name?. thanks Politsi (talk) 08:11, 14 April 2014 (UTC)


 * She was removed because The Rolling Stone recently claimed she's sold 60 million records. I will add her back to the list once she reaches 50 million with her certified sales. At the moment she has only 39.7 million certified units.--Harout72 (talk) 14:51, 14 April 2014 (UTC)

Beyoncé
Should her active period not be 1997-present (as she first charted with Destiny's Child's "No, No, No" then), and her first solo release changed from 2003 as "Work It Out" was released in 2002? —JennKR | ☎ 10:34, 15 April 2014 (UTC)
 * In fact she has a solo release as early as 2000, as a featured artist on Amil's "I Got That", when she was still part of DC. —JennKR | ☎ 10:38, 15 April 2014 (UTC)
 * Agreed. It's similar to Paul McCartney. Beyoncé active year should be 1997—present, and her first year of charted (solo) record should be 2000. Bluesatellite (talk) 10:52, 15 April 2014 (UTC)

Can you change her first solo release → 2000 also? —JennKR | ☎ 20:45, 16 April 2014 (UTC)
 * Well, as a solo artist she officially began charting in 2003 with her "Crazy in Love". Duo collaborations as "I Got That", aren't part of the beginning of her solo career. Besides the column for Release-year of first charted record is for those records that have actually charted on official singles/albums charts. "I Got That" doesn't seem to have charted.--Harout72 (talk) 23:52, 16 April 2014 (UTC
 * "Work It Out" (released as a solo artist in 2002) peaked at #7 on the UK Singles Chart and various other international charts. —JennKR | ☎ 08:58, 17 April 2014 (UTC)
 * Ok got it.--Harout72 (talk) 15:27, 17 April 2014 (UTC)
 * Cheers! —JennKR | ☎ 13:47, 18 April 2014 (UTC)

david bowie
On his wiki page says he sold est 140 million albumns, but not listed here (strange) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 118.93.92.39 (talk) 02:00, 18 April 2014 (UTC)


 * There are a lot of prominent artists not included on this list who have 75m+ sales. Read the first few paragraphs of the article and it explains that artists must have their proposed sales backed up by at least 20% of certified sales. This means that Bowie must have 28m in certified sales from awarding bodies such as the BPI and RIAA to be included on this list at 140m. —JennKR | ☎ 13:51, 18 April 2014 (UTC)

Repetition of disclaimers
We really don't need the " To ensure a highest level of fact checking and editorial control" business for every section surely. Vranak (talk) 01:02, 19 April 2014 (UTC)

Rihanna
Hello. Rihanna has claimed sales of 150 million, she has over 78% of certified sales with 117.5 millon. Acording to an article in Rolling Stone Magazine Rihanna has sold over 41 million albums and 150 million singles. Thats make a total of 191 million. With 191 millon of claimed sales and 117.5 certified sales she'll have over 61.5% in certified sales. 61% of certified sales is enought to put her claimed sales at 191 million of she'll need a higher % of certified sales?


 * http://www.rollingstone.co.za/musicrev/item/2290-rihanna-heads-to-south-africa
 * http://www.emirates247.com/entertainment/rihanna-returns-to-abu-dhabi-for-eid-concert-2013-05-02-1.504928

--Rudeby88 (talk) 17:25, 20 April 2014 (UTC)

Bruno Mars's 10m albums and 68m singles
Hi Harout, i'm sorry for bringing this issue back to the page. So far, there is no newspaper claim that sales for mars but this source is a news website Digital Journal (http://www.digitaljournal.com/pr/1855253) write about that Mars's claim sales.

Is it possible to use it for while until we've got another better source for him?.

Need your advice. thanks Politsi (talk) 01:41, 21 April 2014 (UTC)
 * The content in that source is being fed by PR Web Newswire, not a reliable source, really.--Harout72 (talk) 00:49, 22 April 2014 (UTC)

Robbie Williams's 77m-copies
Harout, need your advice. what do you think about this source (http://bnn-news.com/robbie-williams-perform-tallinn-82104) inside it is said

" Robbie Williams is the most commercially successful solo artist in UK’s history – he has sold over 77 million copies of his albums throughout his career ".

is that mean 77m-records or 77m-albums? and could we use it to bring Robbie Williams to the list?

need your help. thanks Politsi (talk) 01:42, 24 April 2014 (UTC)
 * Williams has begun charting in 1997 which means his claimed figures need to be supported by 54% certified sales. So, for the claim of 77 million for his albums alone, he needs 41.5 million certified album units, but his available certified album sales stand at 37.1 million. His total certified sales; however, including Singles, Albums, Videos are 47.3 million, which would qualify him to get on the list if the claim above said Records, instead of Albums--Harout72 (talk) 02:34, 24 April 2014 (UTC)

Avril Lavigne: 90 million, let's say 80 (as Billboard says) in case you don't like.
I calculated ALL the sales of Avril Lavigne as listed with SOURCES in her wikipedia album pages. And... Billboard says 30 hell yeah but nikkansports says 40 million. Because: Let Go 20m + Under My Skin 12m, The Best Damn Thing 8m, Goodbye Lullaby 2m + Avril Lavigne 650,000 = 42,650,000 (Which all of them are sourced in her discography page.) Claimed 40m albums (they are not that far in certifications) + 50m singles = 90m. What is wrong with wikipedia by the way? Drat! All pages say different things even if they have a SOURCE. People hint undo unblinkingly. I'm not saying you or everyone do that way but "please" check her pages. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Dkisnis (talk • contribs) 18:05, 25 April 2014 (UTC)
 * All artists on the List of best-selling music artists are required to have a certain amount of certified sales based on their first year of charting. That information about certified sales is posted in the second yellow box from the top, on this very talk-page. Avril Lavigne has begun charting in 2002; therefore, her claimed figures need to be supported by 63.2% certified sales, that would be 50.5 million certified units for a claim as high as 80 million. Lavigne's available certified sales; however, stand at 33.4 million units (singles, albums videos combines).--Harout72 (talk) 23:53, 25 April 2014 (UTC)

So we can't clearly know unless someone claims them to be supported by 63.2% certified sales, I got it now. But let me correct you about this: 1) Your number are lower. Because as Billboard says her sales are higher . 2) You hadn't even included What the Hell which sold 2x Platinum in USA. I assert these because Billboard seems to be reliable source. I don't say "check the pages' sources" in vain. Because for example Let Go sold 1,711,088 copies in UK. That's why your certified units and mine are different. I know you may not accept it but (and that's why) thanks for your understanding anyway. Music industry can be very confusing as you see. Hope we can add her someday, right? Thanks for that claim requirement thing too


 * There is a difference between Certified Sales and Actual Sales, I'm beginning to believe that you don't know the difference. The single "What the Hell" has not been certified by RIAA. When it does get certified, I will definitely include it on my file. In order for albums/singles/videos to get certified, artists' record companies must submit a certain fee. In the U.S., that fee is $350. Based on this source you've provided, some singles need to get re-certified including "My Happy Ending" (from previous Gold level=100,000 for digital to current Platinum level=1,000,000). And the single "Complicated" can get certified Platinum. Also, the single "Hot" can get its Gold certification. As for the UK's certified sales, Let Go has been certified 5x Platinum=1,500,000 units, which is on the file I provided.--Harout72 (talk) 07:30, 27 April 2014 (UTC)

No I know. But in many wiki pages they are sourced. But I agree with you about RIAA database as I check it. So like I said before we'd better a suitable claim or a record company which is solicitous about (we know some of them even lack of a proper promotion) to add her to list. Thanks for information I'll keep that in mind.

Cher
Hello, Harout.

Cher's available claimed figures of 140 million records is supported by 20% in certified units. I don't understand why you reverted. Best regards FraDany 21:49, 27 April 2014
 * We are supposed to update the claimed figures only when the said artist's certified sales come really close to the listed claimed figure. This is stated in the last few sentences of the lead. By the way, the source that you used, Radar Online, isn't for this list. We use news services to support the claimed figures, and very few other music industry related magazines such as The Rolling Stone and Billboard.--Harout72 (talk) 21:09, 27 April 2014 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 27 April 2014
Beyoncé's record sales have grown dramatically since the references used were retrieved. Many estimates put her at 118 million records.

198.105.46.47 (talk) 22:27, 27 April 2014 (UTC)
 * Red information icon with gradient background.svg Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. — &#123;&#123;U&#124;Technical 13&#125;&#125; (t • e • c) 22:58, 27 April 2014 (UTC)

Janet Jackson 140 million
Articles are now stating this figure http://www.fashionnstyle.com/articles/18731/20140422/janet-jackson-celebrity-style-evolution.htm http://www.therichest.com/rich-list/nation/10-most-popular-female-soloists-of-all-time/2/

What would her certified sales need to be to support this? Tombo671 (talk) 10:13, 29 April 2014 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Tombo671 (talk • contribs) 10:09, 29 April 2014 (UTC)
 * We don't use sources of that kind here. The claimed figures should come from news services. Besides we don't update claimed figures unless the certified sales of the artist in question comes close to the listed claimed figure. This is stated at the end of the list's lead.--Harout72 (talk) 15:04, 29 April 2014 (UTC)

I am aware, hence why i asked what would her certs need to be to support 140 million? Tombo671 (talk) 11:10, 30 April 2014 (UTC)
 * In order for us to update it from the current 100 million to 140 million, Janet would need to get close to 85-90 million with her certified sales. I'm not sure if that'll ever happen honestly. But based on her current certified sales, her actual sales should fall in the neighborhood of some 80 million records (albums, singles, videos). So the 100 million seems a bit inflated.--Harout72 (talk) 15:46, 30 April 2014 (UTC)

Britney Spears
Britney Spears has now sold over 200 million records worldwide.


 * Only the album sales are counted on this list so far but:


 * Baby One More Time (Single) sold 10.000.000 copies. http://www.digitalspy.co.uk/showbiz/news/a377189/ten-things-about-britney-spears.html#~oD8UsKmG8l9RLP


 * Toxic, Oops I Did It Again (Single) and Womanizer sold 5.000.000 (or more) copies each. https://music.yahoo.com/blogs/yradish/biggest-selling-singles-since-the-year-2000.html


 * So, it would be 125.000.000 sales with albums and only 5 singles combined.


 * According to this blog she sold ~192.000.000 million records. http://dignitywithlove.blogspot.be/2012/02/britney-spears-album-single-sales.html

2A02:1811:C98E:FE00:39A4:EE1F:FB57:C939 (talk) 21:57, 2 May 2014 (UTC)

R. Kelly's 100 million records claim
Hi Harout. Previously, we can not bring R. Kelly with 100m-albums claim to the list because his albums certification sales only could not cover up for 100m-claim.

But, i have found this source from The Florida Times-Union (http://jacksonville.com/slideshow/2014-04-25/6-things-do-jacksonville-weekend#slide-1) and this time, this source said R. Kelly has sold 100m-records.

Need your advice. Could we use it to bring him get into the list? thanks Politsi (talk) 10:23, 2 May 2014 (UTC)
 * The 100 million records is inflated for R.Kelly. Isn't there something between the 100 million and our previously listed 50 million. R. Kelly's certified sales are only 53.3 million. The 87% of his certified sales are coming from the U.S. market, clearly his success is concentrated in the U.S. for the most part.--Harout72 (talk) 15:25, 2 May 2014 (UTC)

No Harout, that's the only records claim of R. Kelly from the news service that i've found beside the previous 50m-records. In my opinion, R. Kelly started his music career since 1990 and his name already famous around the world, eventhough his certification sales mostly came from United States. But, his 53.3 million certification sales units is quite enough to support the 100m-records and The Florida Times-Union is a reliable source.

Harout, i think we should let R. Kelly get into the list and crown her head as one of the world's best-selling artists, Please need your permission. thanks Politsi (talk) 01:24, 3 May 2014 (UTC)


 * "crown her head as one of the world's best-selling artists"? Last I checked, he was a man. Also, this sounds very fan-ish to me. I agree with Harout. The US market has been solid long before R. Kelly. There aren't any sales that aren't accounted for like with an internationally successful artist earlier than the 00s. A Floridian newspaper is just not enough.-- CallMe Nathan  &bull;  Talk2Me   03:31, 3 May 2014 (UTC)

Haha... Hi Nathan!. How are you? it's very nice to see your comment. It's been so long after our chit-chat about your fat diva achievement (mariah carey). But, i'm happy to see you.

By the way, not only Miss Universe/Miss World/Miss Earth who have a crown. A King also have a crown (and a King is a man), is it right?. and Beside i'm not R. Kelly's fans, I just hope this list very complete and reliable because i think this list is very prestigious for all artists.

And if we calculate R. Kelly certifications sales and compare with his years career. 53.3 million is quite enough to support 100m-records claim. please do it to make yourself feel better.

and if the newspaper like The Florida Times-Union is not enough, then what else? a Book from your college library nathan?

Harout. This is not too much. it's just 100m not 150m. I need your help. thanks Politsi (talk) 04:36, 3 May 2014 (UTC)


 * Politsi, let's just wait until something lower than 100 million records becomes available. We don't want to fill the list with inflated claimed figures. If you look at the section of the list which has artists with 100 million claims, you'll see that those that have begun charting in the mid 1990s as R. Kelly has, have over 70 million certified units. I too think that R. Kelly deserves to be on our list, but not with 100 million claim. The highest for him should be 80 or 85 million. I'll look around also to see if I can find something for Kelly.--Harout72 (talk) 04:39, 3 May 2014 (UTC)

Well, i'm very disappointed to be honest. So disappointed. But it's OK if that decision would be better for the list quality. Politsi (talk) 06:51, 9 May 2014 (UTC)

Is this source Reliable Enough for Meatloaf 80m-records?
Hi Harout. Well, because i'm so disappointed with our decision yesterday for not bringing R. Kelly to the list. Yesterday I spend my time about several minutes to pull out my hurt feeling by searching and changing any claim sales in this list which still stand with word Albums.

I changed albums/singles claim sales of Rihanna, Foreigners, and Motley Crue to word Records. I want to change Albums sales claim Meatloaf also to become Records in this list and I want to use this source (http://lasvegastribune.net/tacos-tequilachefs-max-raise-funds-injured-critic/). inside, it's stated:

One of the best-selling artists of all time with one of the best-selling albums of all time, Planet Hollywood Resort & Casino’s RockTellz and CockTails headliner Meat Loaf has sold more than 80 million records and has appeared in more than 50 movies and TV shows.

Is that independent newspaper good enough to become one of the reliable source on the list?

What do you think?. Please, need your advice. thanks Politsi (talk) 13:05, 9 May 2014 (UTC)
 * It's an ok source, we could use it. Besides our current source for Meat Loaf doesn't seem to work.--Harout72 (talk) 15:47, 9 May 2014 (UTC)

R. Kelly now on the List?
Harout, we're already agree that R. Kelly could not enter the list with his 100m-records which is given by me because is still inflated for him.

And now, today someone put his name on the list. and I erased his name immediately, but WOW. Wikifact123 REVERTED it again.

Harout, need your help. please advice, what's going on here? are "we" decided to put R. Kelly to the list?

thanks. Politsi (talk) 12:52, 13 May 2014 (UTC)
 * I know, I already left WikiFact123 a message at his talk. The edits he made are very similar to the edits made a few days ago by another user, Funnycelebritymoments. We seem to have the same person using multiple accounts, violation of Sock puppetry.--Harout72 (talk) 15:04, 13 May 2014 (UTC)

Hi Harout

I actually just copied that edit created by Funnycelebritymoments and past it on when i saw it got deleted, I improved it and now I just do not understand why it got delated again, like if selling 55 million certified units(most albums) does not deserve to be on the list of best selling artist. even if the claim of 100 million is false or whatever, he has no doubt sold then almost half the artists I could name on this list. even with him not being included on the lowest 75 million is a crime.

Why is Janet Jackson on this list with 100 million claimed sales and has been charted not so really long before R. Kelly, why does Rihanna have less than 30 million worldwide album sales(meaning less than R. Kelly's certifies US solo album sales) and still has 150 million records sold, (all featuring songs probably).

"New kids on the block" has 30,2 million certified units, with close the triple claimed sale. "Green day (american band)" came after R. Kelly and much less certified records and still there on this list, for me it sounds like you have something against him, but I don't know, other american artists who has charted around that time he began and with less certification are on this LIST!, i'm talking about 2Pac, Green Day, Black eyed peas, nirvana, spice girl.... i could go on...

Then there is others who has FIVE! five times more claimed record sales the freaking certified sales... yeah right. and if 60 % is not enough for 100 million, it is atleast enough for 75 million. reason for his high claimed sales could be that he puts out albums and songs every year. his latest album will most likely be certified Gold this summer. and his coming with three more albums this year. he puts out album like other people do songs. more albums distance certified sales from claimed sales if you think about it.

WikiFact123 (talk) 20:14, 13 May 2014 (UTC)


 * WikiFact123, when somebody's edit is reverted, that means there is something wrong with that edit. Therefore, you should not copy or try to improve, because as I see in your edit here, you still have incorrect certified sales for all other markets except for the U.S. market. And the source you have used in your edit, has already been discussed here by me and another editor. That discussion is also currently on this talk page above.


 * As for your question as to why others like Janet Jackson are on the list with 100 million claim, when her certified sales are 50.8. Well, Janet Jackson has begun charting in 1982, lot of the music markets still do not offer their Gold/Platinum certification going back that long. But R. Kelly has begun charting in 1993, and most of the music markets do offer Gold/Platinum certifications going back to the mid '90s. This is the reason why we have designed the requirements of certified sales based on the year artists chart. For more information about the years of each music market, refer to the section of our notes on the list.


 * By the way, New Kids on the Block have begun charting in 1986 and they are listed with 80 million claimed figure. Green Day are listed with 75 million records, whereas their certified sales are 45.5 million units and have begun charting in 1994. Similarly, R. Kelly can be listed with claimed figures as high as 75-80 million as his certified sales are enough to suggest that his actual sales are somewhere in the neighborhood of 70-75 million. Let me know if you come across a reliable source claiming records sales in the area of 75-80 million.--Harout72 (talk) 02:09, 14 May 2014 (UTC)


 * WikiFact123, personally i agree with you but... Harout know better and more capable than us to make this list quality always good enough, let's just trust him and be patient if we're not satisfied with his decision because that's the best for the list. Politsi (talk) 01:30, 14 May 2014 (UTC)

Eric Clapton
Harout, what do you think about him? is he deserved to be on the list?. and need your advice, how many certification sales he has?

Well. It seems he's not popular in media and they're not interest to talk about his claim sales. If you don't mind, please look at this source (http://books.google.co.id/books/about/Eric_Clapton.html?id=ZUIJAQAAMAAJ&redir_esc=y) it is an autobiography written by Christopher Simon Sykes.

Inside it is said: Eric Clapton has sold tens of millions of records, played sell-out concerts all over the world and been central to every significant musical development of his era.

need your advice about that source, is that source reliable enough to be put at Clapton's wikibiography? because the editor's of clapton wikiproject (DVdm) very angry on me for bringing those source to the Clapton's page.

I really need your opinion harout. thanks Politsi (talk) 14:46, 14 May 2014 (UTC)
 * It seems like a self published book, I'd avoid it. But I'm sure other reliable sources (news agencies) might have similar claims you could use.--Harout72 (talk) 15:25, 14 May 2014 (UTC)

What should we do if Eminem certification sales passes the 100m??
Harout, I need your advice because i really care about the quality of this list. I really obsessed and wanted this list very complete and reliable. That's why when i see Eminem's certification has been reach nearly 99m.

I was just Like. Oh well, what should we do if his certification passes the 100m? let's just say if it's become 102m or 104m. and the only source which is better that our current claim for him (100m) is 200 million combined (80m-albums and 120m-singles)

and this is the best source for that claim so far (http://www.newtimes.co.rw/news/index.php?i=15547&a=72244)

Harout, what should we do? just let his old claim's on the list even his certification has been reach more than 100m (101m-more) because we should wait until his certification sales reach the minimum require for 200m-claim (116m)?

or we put him at the 200m-list even his certification still around 101/102/103 million or more because if we still insist to put him on the 100m-seller could make the list less reliable?

what do you think harout? thanks Politsi (talk) 10:50, 13 May 2014 (UTC)
 * Good question. We are gonna have to let his certified units pass his currently listed 100 million records. Becuase for 200 million claim, Eminem needs 116 million certified units. But even if he reaches 116 million certified units, the 200 million claim will most definitely still be an outrageously inflated figure. Based on his currently available certified sales, 98.4 million (56.4 million albums, 41.5 million singles, 530,500 videos), his actual sales should be somewhere between 120 and 130 million units.--Harout72 (talk) 02:29, 14 May 2014 (UTC)

Harout, i need your help. How much actually his certification albums sales only? is it enough to support the 115m-sales?

and how much certification of his singles only?

because i think we could use this source for while (http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/features/why-eminem-is-a-greater-artist-than-lady-gaga-will-ever-be/story-e6frg8h6-1226836137106)

I know, it's state 115m-albums not Records as we use on the list. But i think we should consider to use that 115m-claim to make Eminem position in the 100m-list more highly respected than the other 100m-seller artists (he is the highest certification sales on the 100m-list).

I believe, sooner another reliable source will be release eminem's sales with 115m-records claim.

Harout, I need your advice. thanks Politsi (talk) 03:49, 15 May 2014 (UTC)


 * Politsi, I have listed Eminem's certification for Albums, Singles, Videos above. Again, Eminem needs his claimed figures supported by 58% certified sales as he's begun charting in 1999, so the 58% of the 115 million claim for his album alone, would be 66.7 million certified units, which he doesn't have as you see above.--Harout72 (talk) 15:19, 15 May 2014 (UTC)

Hahaha.... I forgot to use my glasses, sorry i didn't see that. For your records, eminem's claim sales is so inflated everywhere, even some source claim he has sold 96m-albums and 120m-singles. Politsi (talk) 01:36, 16 May 2014 (UTC)

KC and the Sunshine Band
Hi Harout, i'm sorry for bothering you again and again. Please remind me, did i mention them already? because according to Trinidad and Tobago Guardian (http://legacy.guardian.co.tt/archives/2005-12-02/pulse.html)

KC and the Sunshine Band sold over 75 million records. Need your advice, what do you think? thanks Politsi (talk) 06:18, 16 May 2014 (UTC)
 * I see low certified sales:


 * U.S.: 500,000 units
 * Canada 900,000 units
 * U.K.: 810,000 units
 * They have no chance for this list.--Harout72 (talk) 14:37, 16 May 2014 (UTC)

Alicia Keys
Harout. what about her? how many of her certification sales so far?. is it could support the 75m-records claim?

And i found this source (http://ww.prestcruise.com/entertaiment-news/item/83814-femi-kutis-songs-inspire-me-grammy-award-winner-alicia-keys-says) is I Paid A Bribe Naija, an online media agency that claim disseminate genuine information at the right time to our audience through our various platform.

But, I'm not sure that source reliable enough to be use on the list.

Please, need your advice. thanks Politsi (talk) 10:02, 16 May 2014 (UTC)
 * Alicia Keys needs her claimed figures supported by 61.6% certified sales, that is 46.2 million certified units needed for a claim as high as 75 million records. Her available certified sales are only 38.6 million units.--Harout72 (talk) 14:42, 16 May 2014 (UTC)

George Strait
Harout. I need your opinion, I don't understand why his publisher seems so difficult to confirm his worldwide records sales to media while his certification sales is so excellence.

As I remember and please remind me, Strait's certification album sales only even reach 74 million. Which is so excellent, but almost of news media always cited his albums sales around 65m - 70m. Dont you think this is un-fair for Strait?.

Harout, please view this source (http://www.okgazette.com/oklahoma/article-10520-george-strait-reba-mcentire-and-lee-ann-womack.html)

inside the article, it is said:

With combined album sales of more than 100 million, the reigning King and Queen of Country aimed to assert that time could be now Saturday night with its near-capacity show at Oklahoma City Arena.

I know, it could be said that album sales is the combination from Strait and the others. But Harout, If Strait could reach the 100m-albums sales claim, I think we should consider to put his name to the list by using that source.

Well, at least for while until the better source release the same claim. I already update Strait's own wikibio with that claim sales and source, i'm sure that the news media will use that source for Strait's claim sales immediately.

For this time Harout, i really wanted George Strait's name at this list. Please, need your consideration. Thanks Politsi (talk) 05:19, 18 May 2014 (UTC)
 * The source says that the king and the queen (referring to George Strait and Reba McEntire) have sold combined album sales of 100 million. That right there prevents us from being able to use that source. But George Strait's album certified sales alone are 69.2 million, so he surely can come on this list if there is a source that says Strait has sold 100 million albums.--Harout72 (talk) 16:01, 18 May 2014 (UTC)

Problems with sentences

 * Markets' order within the table is based on Retail Value: each market generates respectively, the largest market at the top and smallest at the bottom.

Something has gone wrong with this sentence. It does not read correctly. I'm not sure what it was supposed to say.


 * The column for Certified Sales above includes markets, the databases of which contain certifications representing figures of 100,000 and more.

This is hard to understand. Does "market" equate to "country"? Does a country or market have "a database"?

86.167.19.243 (talk) 19:32, 19 May 2014 (UTC)

Air Supply's 100m-records
Harout, To be honest. I still in the bad-mood since Strait's can not enter the list. But, i hope that's the best for the list, i will be patient to keep the list always in high quality.

Need your advice again. How many certification sales of that mellow duo pop? because this source (http://www.sgvtribune.com/arts-and-entertainment/20131101/steve-smith-john-mcvie-has-cancer-the-whos-50th-tour-to-be-its-last-janis-joplin-slated-for-hollywood-walk-of-fame) said Air Supply have sold 100m-records since 1976.

thanks Politsi (talk) 07:35, 20 May 2014 (UTC)


 * I see 12.5 million certified units coming from the U.S., 1,050,000 units from Canada. There isn't enough certified sales to suggest they have sold 100 million records, and they don't meet the required 20% certified sales either.--Harout72 (talk) 14:52, 20 May 2014 (UTC)

It means that we must proud for what we have done here, Harout. The completeness, the highly quality of the claim source, and extremely selective which done by you. Making this list very famous, with evidence now where so many artist declared themself have sold their records with at least 75m-records claim but in fact their certification sales so low. Politsi (talk) 00:51, 21 May 2014 (UTC)

Coldplay
Is there any reason why Coldplay isn't on this list? TomB123 (talk) 11:13, 20 May 2014 (UTC)
 * What are the newer claimed figures for Coldplay that news services are reporting these days?--Harout72 (talk) 14:52, 20 May 2014 (UTC)

TomB123, please find a reliable source (from News Agency) for your favorite artists which have claim at least 75m-records. Politsi (talk) 00:53, 21 May 2014 (UTC)

Enrique Iglesias with 75m-records claim
Harout, what do you think about this latino sexy guy (i'm a man and straight, but i have to admit... I wish i could be as hot as he is)

How many certification sales he has so far? is it quite enough to reach 75 million?

Well, Yahoo! Voice already mention him with 75m-records claim (http://voices.yahoo.com/enrique-iglesias-pitbull-will-performing-at-12664672.html)

It's only a matter of time that some Newspaper will be write the same thing about his records sales.

Need your advice Harout. thanks Politsi (talk) 11:03, 23 May 2014 (UTC)
 * Enrique Iglesias has very low certified sales 26.6 million in total. He needs his claimed figures supported by 50% certified sales. That's 37.5 million for 75 million claim.--Harout72 (talk) 14:35, 23 May 2014 (UTC)

Michael Bolton with 100m-records claim
Hi Harout, As usual. I need your advice again. What do you think about him, is it possible if we put his name on the list with 100m-records (albums and singles) claim?

Actually how many certification he has and how far he can claim a large of records sales? Is it enough to gain the 100m-seller?

So far, as I remember. Bolton claim records sales still between 50m to 53m, but his certification sales is so excellent.

Harout, please look at this source (http://lancasteronline.com/entertainment/michael-bolton-may-not-be-hip-but-he-s-happening/article_5d16f32d-8230-58e9-941c-8c8d684fd9a8.html) inside the article, it is said:

The Grammy Award-winning singer, who has sold tens of millions of albums and singles, said he initially thought someone was pulling a prank on him when a woman called and said she worked with Dylan.

in your opinion, is it appropriate if we consider the tens as 100?

Harout, please inform me. Is it possible if we put Bolton to the list with 100m-claim?. thanks Politsi (talk) 10:43, 23 May 2014 (UTC)
 * Michael Bolton's available certified sales are only 37.1 million, that isn't high enough to suggest 100 million records. Besides, other news agencies claim 50-60 million, which is quite realistic based on Bolton's available certified sales.--Harout72 (talk) 14:44, 23 May 2014 (UTC)

Okay then, what if the claim sales of 75 million records? is it possible for Bolton to reach that claim with his certification sales?. Well, he's one of my favorite artists, surely i hope he could be get into the list. thanks Politsi (talk) 01:22, 24 May 2014 (UTC)
 * I personally think 50-60 million is just about right for Bolton. But if you find a new reliable source claiming 75 million, we can consider bringing him onto the list since he's kind of an early beginner.--Harout72 (talk) 01:42, 24 May 2014 (UTC)

katy perry
well with the new sales Prism album and singles!!!! are the new sales added to her amount in the list ???????????????????

77.44.232.141 (talk) 17:54, 26 May 2014 (UTC)
 * No, this is not a summation that is added up to the list. Either a reputed third party media will report it, and it has to pass the criteria set in this list, else it will not be added. — Indian: BIO  · [ ChitChat  ] 18:14, 26 May 2014 (UTC)

Mariah Carey's 220m-records???
Harout, I’m confuse and I hope this's not happen because of you. I’ve seen that mariah carey sales claim has been increase to 220m-records in the list.

Two days ago, I thought it was just a praise thing for carey from one of her teen fans.

And we all know that Mariah Carey always screaming all over the place and insist that she is the best-selling female artist of all time (yeah right... I suggest mariah carey to kill madonna first, if she wanted that title so much)

So I erase that claim immediately. But now, someone called pettergriffith reverting my edit here.

Harout, I need your help. What happen here? we already agree that NO inflated sales to be put at the list and we use the closest claim with their certification sales

I still remember that you object when I ask to increase Bon Jovi and Rod Stewart claim sales with that reason.

and that reason should be put at mariah carey too.

Harout, I need your advice. thanks Politsi (talk) 03:23, 26 May 2014 (UTC)
 * Right, I'm aware of it. It has been added by a fan of Mariah Carey. For only some time I'm going to let the 220 million sit there to see if new Gold/Platinum certifications are going to come in for Carey's new album, and hopefully for older releases. Based on my careful analysis, Carey could not have sold another 20 million units in a matter of just 4-5 years. Back in 2009 and 2010, news agencies were still reporting 175 million records, or maximum of 200 million. Now some news agencies are beginning to claim 220 million records. Had she sold 20 million records within that short amount of time, we would've seen at least 10-15 million in certified units coming from local certifying bodies, including RIAA. Instead Carey's certifications in the last four years are only the following:


 * USA: Since 2010 --> 1.5 million certified units
 * Japan : Since 2010 --> 450,000 certified units. (Sources for certifications since 2010: 1, 2, 3)
 * UK: Since 2010 --> 2.1 million certified units (Note: that UK's BPI in July 2013, certified lot of old releases for many artists that had long reached certification levels, but hadn't been certified)
 * Germany: Since 2010 --> None
 * France: Since 2010 --> None
 * Australia: Since 2010 --> 210,000 certified units.
 * Canada: Since 2010 --> None
 * Brazil: Since 2010 --> 60,000 certified units.
 * Italy: Since 2010 --> 100,000 certified units.
 * Sweden: Since 2010 --> None (Note: enter Mariah Carey in search Box "Sok")
 * Spain: Since 2010 --> 25,000 certified units (Note: select "Singles chart", then "2013" and then "week 52")
 * Switzerland: Since 2010 --> None.
 * Belgium: Since 2010 --> None.
 * Austria: Since 2010 --> None.
 * Poland: Since 2010 --> None.


 * As we can see based on these key markets, which generate over 95% of the global music sales, Carey's certified sales have gone up by 4.2 million. That is not nearly enough to suggest that Carey's records sales could have gone from 175-200 million to 220 million in 4 or 5 years. The 220 million claim is simply a promotional figure for her upcoming material. If she collects at least 5 million more units in certified sales, I will agree to leave the 220 million there, but if not, it should be removed. Let's wait and see.--Harout72 (talk) 05:43, 26 May 2014 (UTC)


 * That my friends is Original Research, now taking it to the farthest level. Unlike the artists you bring up Politsi, Carey actually has the certifications to back 220 million. Not like Enrique Iglesias and other ridiculous numbers you bring to the table. We aren't here to add certifications from 5 years ago Harout. Fact of the matter is reputable sources (NOT at all affiliated with promotion of her album. One is actually written in a negative light.) claim 220 and she more than meets the criteria. Anything else is your OR. One more thing. Being a fan of Carey has absolutely nothing to do with it. I don't appreciate you suggesting or implying I'm in any way biased. What I did in my edit & what I'm suggesting is 100% encyclopedic, so don't try and use OR to defraud my edits or claims. I'm not the one trying to pass completely ridiculous figures, backed up by sources with absolutely zero credibility. Learn your place. While you're at it, your grammar as well.-- Peter Griffin  &bull;  Talk2Me   05:56, 26 May 2014 (UTC)


 * By the way. Carey has almost 8 million more certifications than Dion, and almost 20 million more than Whitney. Yet, you're still suggesting we keep them all at the same sales level? Dion's first official release was in 1990, and Houston started only 5 years before. That's a dosage of OR for you.-- Peter Griffin  &bull;  Talk2Me   06:17, 26 May 2014 (UTC)


 * Having the fact that Mariah is very local (well, she only achieved the real success in the US tbh) I would say that including the 220 million claim is ridiculous. Maybe using the 200 million claim for Mariah (which is again questionable) and the 175 for Houston since their difference in certifications will be a good idea? Just saying. — Tomíca (T2ME) 09:20, 26 May 2014 (UTC)


 * And you are basing that off of your own personal opinions of Carey's success outside of the US, even though the bulk of it was when you were a child. To note, she has more certified sales than Dion and has over 40 million certified outside of the US.. so not so bad for local.-- Peter Griffin  &bull;  Talk2Me   09:39, 26 May 2014 (UTC)
 * Do you want me to add the fact that Carey is a born American, while Dion is not? And still has 60 million certified sales in a country that's not her native born place? [I mean if you want to talk about comparing successes]. At the end of the day, my opinion is not important, but still, having Carey with a claim of 220 million is inflated, and the both users above also share the same opinion. — Tomíca (T2ME) 09:42, 26 May 2014 (UTC)
 * Sigh.. A). I didn't question Dion's success in the US.. B). The US is by far the largest music market in the world. C). I'm not playing your fan war games. My comments are based on facts (she has higher certifications than Dion) while you're making random fanatic comments. You're entitled to your opinion, but you haven't presented absolutely anything that holds weight in the discussion.-- Peter Griffin  &bull;  Talk2Me   09:51, 26 May 2014 (UTC)
 * What I really need to present is already presented by Harout and Politsi, so I just agreed with them. Having her with 220 is inflated sales claim and that's a fact. I just told my opinion how we can manage this vague situation. Waiting responses from the above mentioned users. — Tomíca (T2ME) 09:56, 26 May 2014 (UTC)

You keep saying inflated, inflated, however you fail to answer the question. Why does it make sense to list Dion & Houston at 200m, when they are both noticeably lower than Carey's? Yet it's such an inflation to list her 20m above them? Those are facts. Carey's certifications hold up 60% of the 220m claim (higher than Houston & Madonna's 55%, and equivalent to Dion's 60%. So forgive me for not taking your opinion into consideration. By the way, I only really count 3 people in this discussion so far. Politsi and his incredibly fanatic and biased rant (not to mention his ridiculous and far-fetched posts throughout this page) don't equate to anything in my eyes.-- Peter Griffin  &bull;  Talk2Me   10:03, 26 May 2014 (UTC)


 * Nathan (Petergriffin9901) bringing a proper and calm argument to this talk-page is one thing, but trying to argue yourself through with such statements as Learn your place. While you're at it, your grammar as well is another. You need to completely familiarize yourself with the way this list is operated. In the lead, it is clearly stated: Note that this list uses claimed figures that are closer to artists' available certified sales. In other words, inflated claimed figures that will meet the required certified sales amount but are unrealistically high from available certified sales, will not be used.. That's been there for over a year. In my demonstration above, there is no Original Research as you suggest, every single piece of evidence is backed up by a reliable source. OR is when one argues without being able to support his/her statements with reliable sources. It also is a weak argument when calling such demonstrations on talk-pages OR, as the policy does not apply to talk-pages, read that up.


 * Back to the 220 million, that figure is completely inflated by her record company, that is obvious when looking at Carey's available certified sales. This figure just began emerging. Five years ago it was maximum of 200 million. Carey did not sell 20 million records within a period of five years, that is the reason why I'm looking at her recent certifications.


 * BTW, when comparing artists to each other, you need to look at the years they've begun charting, and look at the certified sales in terms of percentage, not who has higher certified sales. Currently, Carey's 220 million is supported by 58% certified sales, Celine Dion's 200 million with 60% certified sales, and Whitney Houston's 200 million with 55.6% certified sales. Carey has begun charting in 1990, more music markets do offer their certifications going back to 1990 than 1984 when Houston began, see our section for Notes. Celine Dion, too, has been collecting certifications since early '80s. Anyways, as I said above, I will leave the 220 million on there for now, just to see what kind of certifications will be coming in within the next couple months.--Harout72 (talk) 11:29, 26 May 2014 (UTC)


 * I am absolutely calm and collected. Sorry mate, but I don't care for an editor who enters this discussion with an obvious bias. Read his comments above yours again and tell me it's not littered with negativity and fandom. I have been nothing but respectful towards all of you except for telling someone off about their grammar. It's quite frankly too bad. As for Dion, she began charting in 1990. I'm not going to sit here and actually count a few hundred thousand copies she sold in Canada in the 80s as an adolescent. I'd also like to know how you think The Guardian's article is in any way serving in promotion for her album when it's clearly written in a negative light? And Music Week? Last I checked they were the Billboard for the UK... It's not like these sources are from her record label. Either way, I'm done with this discussion. Go ahead and remove the 220m and follow the esteemed consensus we've gathered. Good day.-- Peter Griffin  &bull;  Talk2Me   11:47, 26 May 2014 (UTC)

First of all, comparing Mariah and Celine may make sense, since both released their major label debut in 1990 (yes, Celine's first album was in 1981 but all her 1980s had almost zero impact everywhere but Quebec). However, I disagree if you compare Mariah and Whitney for their certified sales. Whitney released her two biggest-selling studio albums in the mid-1980s (Whitney Houston and Whitney) and she had got several no.1 singles (seven in the USA) before Mariah began her career. As you can clearly see on this page, several major music markets (such as Japan, Australia, and Brazil) had not launched their certification system in the 1980s. So we can't fairly compare their certified sales. Second, still fresh in our memory that her label stated in the press release during Memoirs of an Imperfect Angel era (2009) that Mariah Carey had sold 175 million records. The next year, in the press release of Merry Christmas II You her label changed that claim into 200 million. So, did she really sell another 25 million in just one year? Oh wait, maybe her label under-estimated her record sales, so 200 million seemed more accurate by then. Alright, in 2012, her label kept saying 200 million in the press release of "Triumphant (Get 'Em)". The next year, we got another new claim from her label, 220 million sales. Did her label think 200 million was still under-estimated (again)? Or had she really sold 20 million since 2010? By looking at this trend, I believe that by her next album we will have got "250 million" claim for her. Bluesatellite (talk) 13:23, 26 May 2014 (UTC)
 * I get your point 100%. I would like to point out that you are comparing her label to independent and reliable third-party sources (not saying it makes sense for them to underestimate her sales, but still). Additionally, I do think Music Week is more credible than anything else brought up. As a last point, I would tend to agree with you more had we tried to establish 220m as the only number, but in my mind, listing 175-220m is the lower and higher spectrum of her sales, which I find more than fair.-- Peter Griffin  &bull;  Talk2Me   13:55, 26 May 2014 (UTC)


 * Most, if not all claimed figures are fed by artists' record companies, regardless who publishes them. The Guardian, I'm quite certain, does not have someone doing a meticulous research on artists' records sales before they included 220 million in their article. All major news papers contact artists' record companies to get the figures. When one looks at the sales figures, they all have the same constant gradual inflation. In other words, it's not like, one news service says 205 million, another 210 million, another 2015 million. The figures are always have the same level, which clearly suggests that there is one single source they're coming from, and that is the record company.


 * So, as I understand from our discussion, we can remove the 220 million claim? I just want to make sure we're all on the same page here, and not going to see any reverts. Nathan (Petergriffin9901)?--Harout72 (talk) 16:08, 26 May 2014 (UTC)

Harout, thank you very much for the explanation above, that's make me feel more and more respect in you and you deserve to be labeled as the highly trusted editor in this list. and to Talk2Me, please be fair. all editor already agree that your fat diva current claim sales is too fat to be put at this list.

By the way Nathan, regarding with your statement ''Unlike the artists you bring up Politsi, Carey actually has the certifications to back 220 million. Not like Enrique Iglesias and other ridiculous numbers you bring to the table''.

Nathan... I dont need to tell you how much my contribution and my work to make this list very complete!. Please behave!!. thanks Politsi (talk) 18:26, 26 May 2014 (UTC)
 * I can always see that when it comes to Mariah regarding her sales, the topic turns to be so tensed though I don't know why. First Mariah NEVER Claimed that she is the best selling female music artist of all time!And NEVER CLAIMED for so! She is the BEST SELLING FEMALE ARTIST in Nielsen Soundscan ERA (ABOUT 55 million scanned records) and its increasing every year out of total 65 million CERTIFIED UNITS! and She was the world's best selling artist of the decade in 1990 where she sold 100 million records then. And then she was established as the female artist of the Millennium in 2003 for being the FASTEST SELLING female artist that have sold over 150 million records in 2003!

Regarding the certifications! I agree that Carey has sold in the range of 220 million. Bearing in mind that she has around 59% of total certifications level that are needed for total claimed sales of 220 million where she needs 40% id we started counting an additional 2% from each year of the 90s. And Harout don't forget that the NVPI database isn't functioning and that Carey is having over 2.2 million certified UNITS from there and almost a HALF a million certified units from New Zealand that aren't listed. Moreover, Carey has sold more than 5 million records in the Asian Markets Basically South Korea, Taiwan, Hong Kong that has NO CERTIFICATION AGENCIES. I do believe that the 220 million claim should be set back ! fidelovkurt 06:16, 27 May 2014 (UTC)
 * Yeah that's the unfortunate part about this. When it comes to Carey, people always have to make these immature Diva wars. Anyway, not to misquote Harout, but if Carey manages to get about 5-6m or so more certifications from this new release, then we can compromise. Until then we'll just wait and be patient.-- Peter Griffin  &bull;  Talk2Me   07:50, 27 May 2014 (UTC)
 * What's Interesting about Carey's is that there is a cumulative increase in her certified sales year after year though its slow! for example by this Christmas, her Classic All I Want For Christmas Is You will reach triple platinum in America and Double Platinum in the UK totaling the total certification level to 132 million, and for sure this album is going to boost her certified levels fidelovkurt 08:37, 27 May 2014 (UTC)
 * I agree 100%. We've compromised. Her certifications have risen around 4.2m since 2010. We've agreed if that number comes closer to 10-12 we would once again include the 220m. I don't doubt she will collect another 6-7m by the years end.-- Peter Griffin  &bull;  Talk2Me   09:35, 27 May 2014 (UTC)

fidelovkurt, I have Carey's available Dutch certified sales on my file here, it had reached 1.475 million mark by 2006 (this I always take under consideration). Has Carey collected another 700,000 certified units in Holland since 2006? Where are you getting that? As for New Zealand's certified sales, I've only been able to find total of 60,000 certified units, but of course their older chart-database begins from 1999, so I can't argue. Also, note that the BPI issued certifications for hundreds of older releases in July 2013. All these records had long reached the required certification-levels in the UK, but hadn't been certified. So that's the reason why we see such a notable figure coming from the UK since 2010. With all the certified sales that we have available to us, I can't see how she could have sold more than 175 million records. Hopefully, we'll see more certifications from many other music markets.--Harout72 (talk) 15:49, 27 May 2014 (UTC)
 * Okay then Harout72 then why aren't the Dutch certifications listed in the aforementioned chart if you take it into consideration? and regarding the New Zealand older charting methodology I've shown you book from Amazon.com that shows Carey's certified NZ sales exceeds 500,000 but you requested scanning every page which was a time consuming and Please explain to me this, Mariah started in 1990 so we have to start counting a certification level of 40% with additional 2% since that year! and Since Mariah is at 58% from the certified level needed to the 220 million total claimed sales means, Mariah must reach a total of 134 million to upgrade that claim no? taking into consideration that Mariah has a a total of ALMOST 132 million certified sales (including the unlisted Dutch and NZ sales) please explain further! fidelovkurt 17:01, 27 May 2014 (UTC)

All of your questions are self explanatory, I'm not sure why you're requesting further explanation from me. 1) The Dutch certifications aren't included for any of the artists on the list, because they aren't verifiable due to NVPI database not functioning. But I take them under consideration when looking at new claimed figures. 2) Saying you don't want to scan NZ certifications because it's time consuming, is not a good excuse. Other editors have done that for other artists. I too have personally bought a book which has all earlier certifications for the Spanish market. I have scanned dozens of pages and uploaded them, mainly for this list. 3) Carey does need her claimed figures supported by only 40% certified sales since she's begun charting in '90. Additional 2% is for '91, '92 so on so forth. The reason why the 220 million isn't being used because it is unrealistically high from her available certified sales. The lead of this list, does inform the editors about that. It applies to all artists on the list. Just go over the history of this talk-page and you will be convinced that there is no cherry picking involved here.--Harout72 (talk) 22:40, 27 May 2014 (UTC)

Kanye West
I just finished going over Kanye West's certified sales, whose total came up to 67.7 million units. Is there a reliable source claiming some 80-85 million records for West? I wasn't able to locate anything for him, maybe someone can.--Harout72 (talk) 02:09, 27 May 2014 (UTC)

Really Harout? it's hard to find it?. Well, I've seen that many reliable source said that Kanye West has sold 21 million albums and 66 million digital downloads and that's 87 million.

this is the best source we can use i think (http://www.timesunion.com/entertainment/article/Kanye-the-quotable-5228754.php) from Times Union (Albany).

What do you think?. thanks Politsi (talk) 02:01, 28 May 2014 (UTC)
 * This will do, it is a reliable source, Times Union (Albany). Good job!--Harout72 (talk) 02:47, 28 May 2014 (UTC)

Bruno Mars
Harout, how many or how much of his certification sales so far? is it enough already to make him get into the list?

And still... there's no reliable source with his appropriate claim sales but this (http://online.thatsmags.com/post/bruno-mars-mercedes-benz-arena-shanghai-interview-thats-shanghai) the biggest selling English-Language Chinese magazine which claim his sales at 79 million.

Need your advice Harout, I think for now. He's ready to become a part of this very prestigious list. thanks Politsi (talk) 05:53, 28 May 2014 (UTC)
 * Bruno Mars needs his figures supported by 76% certified sales, that's 60.040 million certified units needed for 79 million claim. He's still at 59.3 million with his certified sales. But I'm hesitant about using that source. When he reaches 60 million, I may have to post it at WP:RS/N to get others' opinions on its reliability.--Harout72 (talk) 15:07, 28 May 2014 (UTC)

Celine Dion with 220 million records claim
Harout, I’ve seen that Celine Dion also begin to claim having sold 220 million records which is supported by her record label (sony)

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/arts/music/celine-dion-to-headline-chinas-big-televised-new-year-gala/article8389768/

http://www.sony.com/SCA/company-news/press-releases/sony-columbia-records/2013/celine-dion-gives-incredible-performances-on-the-v.shtml

I think we should be carefully with all inflated sales that sometimes being published to increase the artist popularity and status.

thanks Politsi (talk) 02:43, 30 May 2014 (UTC)


 * As it just so happens.. Carey has higher certifictions than Dion... So your logic kind of doesn't work. Carey also doesn't use sources from her label to secure 220m.-- Peter Griffin  &bull;  Talk2Me   15:58, 30 May 2014 (UTC)

My point is, i want to remind all of us here about inflated sales out there. and starting from now, we should stop talking about mariah carey. because we already had the result about her. thanks Politsi (talk) 16:03, 31 May 2014 (UTC)

Insert the flag of country from each artist in the list
Harout, you don't have to answer this question if you start to get bored with my question over and over again... But i do this for the quality and the reliability of the list.

To make the prestige of this list incresing, i suggest we put the flag of country where those artist in the list came from or represent, because i believe if we do that. It could make this list more serious to see and not only a list for fun.

It also make the list more beautiful and reliable, and people will give more a serious attention when they view the list.

Harout. I need your advice. thanks Politsi (talk) 17:15, 31 May 2014 (UTC)


 * As per WP:FLAGCRUFT, to qoute from it Words as the primary means of communication should be given greater precedence over flags and flags should not change the expected style or layout of infoboxes or lists to the detriment of words. Using flags would not add to the list. It is very good the way it is. Murry1975 (talk) 17:33, 31 May 2014 (UTC)

Hi!. nice to meet someone other than my regular friend in this list. thanks for your information Politsi (talk) 17:53, 31 May 2014 (UTC)

The Police with claim sales (75m-records) from KZOK-FM (CBS Radio/CBS Local Media)
Harout. I need your advice, as we remember in our talk several days ago. The Police band has enough certification units to gain 75m-records.

So far. I could not found any newspaper yet which claim that sales for them.

But, please look at this source (http://kzok.cbslocal.com/2014/05/28/greg-pisses-off-rest-of-allmans-woz-loses-a-bundle-on-us-again-this-day-in-classic-rock-videos/)

Scott Vanderpool from KZOK-FM (CBS Radio/CBS Local Media) stated inside:

30 years (and 75 million records) to the date after the first time they’d played together, Sting, Andy Summers, and Stuart Copeland played the first show of The Police reunion tour tonight in 2007 at the home of the Canucks, the Rogers Arena in Vancouver.

Harout, is it possible if we use that source for them and make them get into the list. At least for while until i have found a better source and replace it immediately.

Because i feel so weird if knowing that some of artists still can not get into the list but their certification sales quite enough (such as Clapton, R. Williams, G. Strait, A. Jackson, and M. Bolton)

I try the best i can to found a reliable source for them, because I thing that this list will be true reliable if the contain inside very complete.

Harout, what do you think?. thanks Politsi (talk) 17:01, 2 June 2014 (UTC)


 * I don't think it's acceptable. The wording is very vague and ambiguous, and not very clear as to whom they are referring to (not to mention this isn't the best source ).-- Peter Griffin  &bull;  Talk2Me   19:49, 2 June 2014 (UTC)


 * We should not use sources like that, even temporarily. But the claim of 75 million records is somewhat logical for The police, considering that they've begun charting in '77, and that their certified sales stand at 38 million units.--Harout72 (talk) 21:33, 2 June 2014 (UTC)

Harout, for me and personally. If the claim sales of 75m-records is logical for the Police, then why we don't let them became a part of the list because the source i bring with is came from one of CBS Media (News Media Organization) eventhough it's a Radio Station but at least it's an official website not a fanbase. Except the Police certification sales is not enough or the source is came from an unknown source or a fan base.Politsi (talk) 09:25, 5 June 2014 (UTC)

Dr. Dre
Harout... If you have a time, need your help to see the certification sales of Dr. Dre. Perhaps he could reach the claim sales of 80 million records.

Milwaukee Journal Sentinel (http://www.jsonline.com/blogs/entertainment/191701041.html) said that claim.

thanks Politsi (talk) 09:44, 5 June 2014 (UTC)
 * Dr. Dre needs his claimed figures supported by 46% as he's begun charting in 1993. For a claim as high as 80 milion records, he needs 36.8 million certified units. I see only 14 million from the U.S., 2.2 million from the U.K., 500,000 units from Canada, 150,000 units from Germany. Clearly the 80 million is inflated enormously.--Harout72 (talk) 15:37, 5 June 2014 (UTC)

MJ
Michael Jackson is the best-selling artist ever. Even if other sources refute this claim, why can't the 750 million "claim" be put in the "claimed sales" column? ☯ Bonkers The Clown  \(^_^)/  Nonsensical Babble  ☯ 13:37, 5 June 2014 (UTC)
 * He would be if The Beatles and Elvis never existed...-- Peter Griffin  &bull;  Talk2Me   19:39, 5 June 2014 (UTC)

Michael Bolton with 75m-albums claim
Harout, I need your advice again regarding with him. As you said in the previous talk, Bolton has 37.1 million certification sales, and exactly how many of his albums certification only?

Because Time Warner Cable / (http://www.twcc.com/articles/2014/06/06/t/time-warp-turntable-jams-music-n-mullets.6) said him have sold 75 million albums, not in records term. And that's source look's quite reliable because coming from a Telecommunications Mass media.

Harout, i've seen that Bolton begin his years in music since 1975 and it's really kind of an early beginner, so if his albums certification sales only could reach 75 million, we should put him in the list.

Harout. 75 million claims is a realistic figure and not too inflated. Need your advice, thanks Politsi (talk) 13:26, 6 June 2014 (UTC)
 * Bolton's certified album sales are 35.9 million, which meets the required amount (30.6%) of certified sales for someone who's been charting since 1983, but the Time Warner Cable cannot be used as a source. If there isn't a reliable source for Bolton that claims records sales in the neighborhood of 75 million, that's ok, we're not leaving someone very notable out of the list as Bolton's certified sales aren't high enough.--Harout72 (talk) 15:02, 6 June 2014 (UTC)

Harout, so far the only source i have found only from the Time Warner Cable which claim 75m-sales for Bolton. If you think that we cannot be used as source, we should know that TWC is also release Time Warner Cable News a brand for Time Warner Cable's 24-hour cable news television channels. Which the type product absolutely same like CNN and BBC. And even CNN is a product from Time Warner which is previously owned Time Warner Cable.

Therefore, the source I bring with for Bolton's claim sales is reliable to use. Harout, the certification albums sales for Bolton is meet the required amount and the source quite reliable, then we must put him on the list.

But I will still looking forward for another better reliable source and claim sales with term 75m-records for Bolton and If i have found it. I will replace it immediately.

Harout, I believe you understand that I'm the one who make the claim source for those artists in the list very reliable and unique.

Need your help to make Bolton get into the list. Thanks Politsi (talk) 01:27, 7 June 2014 (UTC)


 * The Time Warner Cable News doesn't really fall into the same category as those top notch news agencies such as CNN and BBC. If the figure of 75 million album sales for Bolton came directly from Time Warner News, it would kind of be passable. But Time Warner Cable Central isn't quite the same as I understand, which is where your claimed figure's coming from. Maybe someone else could help us understand the difference.--Harout72 (talk) 03:58, 7 June 2014 (UTC)

I've check it already and Time Warner Cable Central is also came from Time Warner Cable, please click at the section About us inside the source I've give, it would be directly to the Time Warner Cable. Which is mean that the contain inside Time Warner Cable Central and Time Warner News is same because both came from Time Warner Cable.

And the most important point is, Bolton's albums certification sales is meet the required amount. We should considered it. Politsi (talk) 04:10, 7 June 2014 (UTC)

Well then Harout, what's the decision? we will bring Bolton to the list with that source or not?. I need your response. thanks Politsi (talk) 06:49, 7 June 2014 (UTC)


 * Since more reliable sources such as The Independent, Northjesrsey.com, Oakland Press, Express & Star, claim 60 million records, and since the 60 million records is closer to Bolton's available certified sales, he should not be added to the list.--Harout72 (talk) 11:57, 7 June 2014 (UTC)

I have to admit, I really wanted all my favorite artists became a part of the list and Bolton is one of my favorite. However, again. I would ask you and you don't have to answer this.

What if, someday newer than all of your four sources above. I have found Bolton's claim figure at 75m-records from a very prestigious news agency. Would you consider, to bring him into the list? thanks Politsi (talk) 16:53, 7 June 2014 (UTC)


 * Politsi, this list's policy applies to all artists. The policy I'm referring to is We are to use claimed figures closer to certified sales. There are many other reliable sources that claim 60 million records for Bolton which I didn't provide above, so it's not only four. So to answer to your question, I'm afraid we should not consider adding Bolton to the list with 75 million sales, unless of course his certified sales magically reach at least 50 million from the current 37.1 million. I'm not sure if that will ever happen.--Harout72 (talk) 17:39, 7 June 2014 (UTC)

George Strait with 100m-records
Harout, please look at this source (http://popcultureblog.dallasnews.com/2014/06/george-strait-sets-a-u-s-concert-attendance-record-in-a-musically-superb-star-laden-show.html/) Joy Tipping from The Dallas Morning News said that Strait has sold 100m-records.

Harout. We already know that Strait's certification sales is very high and could cover up the 100m-sales, and I think that source is reliable enough too to bring him into the list.

Need your help. thanks Politsi (talk) 03:17, 9 June 2014 (UTC)
 * Even though, it's a blog, which are normally not regarded as reliable, this one seems to be reliable as it's written by an employee/reporter of The Dallas Morning News. I'll put Strait on the list soon.--Harout72 (talk) 04:50, 9 June 2014 (UTC)

Thank's Harout, Well. After Strait already became a part of the list, I still looking for Robbie Williams's 77m-records, Alan Jackson's 80m-records, and Eminem's 115m-records. But to be honest, I still hope you still considering if i ask you to let Michael Bolton enter this list with his 75m-sales on future,

And back again to Strait since the source I've found not a very good source, I also still looking for the better source for him and replace it soon but meanwhile, we shall let him on the list cause his certifications is so excellent. Politsi (talk) 05:10, 9 June 2014 (UTC)

Alan Jackson
Speaking of Alan Jackson, I still remember that several reliable source claim his records at 60m-sold but that claim seems un-fair to him because if i'm not mistaken, his certification sales reach 40m while his music career happens to be since 1983.

Harout, need your advice. How many of his certification sales and Is it possible to include him on the list with claim sales at 80m-records? Because I will find that out if that's possible for him.

Thanks Politsi (talk) 09:25, 9 June 2014 (UTC)


 * Most of the sources claim 60 million albums for Alan Jackson's, and his available certified album sales are only 45.3 million (his total is 46.1 million), which may or may not be 60 million in terms of actual sales since he doesn't seem to have had any success outside of north America. So anything higher than 60 million albums/records would be quite inflated for him.--Harout72 (talk) 15:32, 9 June 2014 (UTC)

Master P with 75m-records
Harout. Did I mention him already?. Need your help to find out how many certification sales he has. Is it possible to reach 75m-records claim.

So far, there is no reliable source such a newspaper write about him but this (http://www.mtv.com/news/1640612/master-p-talks-no-limit-records-2010-vh1-hip-hop-honors/) from MTV News, where this rapper told that he and his career with No Limits recording company able to make him sold 75m-records.

While there is so many un-reliable source said about his 75m-records mostly from Black Entertaintment Company and Music community.

Need your advice. thanks Politsi (talk) 08:15, 9 June 2014 (UTC)
 * Master P has begun charting in 1996, therefore, needs his claimed figures supported by 52% certified sales, that is 39 million certified units for a claim as high as 75 million. I only see 12 million from the U.S., 50,000 units from Canada. I think we have the answer.--Harout72 (talk) 01:51, 10 June 2014 (UTC)