Talk:List of best-selling music artists/Archive 30

Flo Rida with 80m-records
Harout, If you feel interest. Need your help to check out of his certification sales, is it possible for him to gain 80m-records claim? because this source saying that (http://online.wsj.com/article/PR-CO-20140505-902684.html)

He's kind a new comer. It's seems difficult for him to reach that sales claim. What do you think? thanks Politsi (talk) 09:37, 9 June 2014 (UTC)
 * I went over Flo Rida's certification for eight markets, the total came up to 48.1 million. Flo Rida needs 56.9 million certified units for 80 million claim (71.2% certified sales required). There are some more markets like Belgium, Denmark that his certifications need to be retrieved from, but it looks like he'll still be short by some 7 million certified units.--Harout72 (talk) 04:41, 10 June 2014 (UTC)

But Harout, what if we include him with 75 million-sales? please look at this source from Forbes Magazine (http://www.forbes.com/sites/natalierobehmed/2013/10/21/rapper-flo-rida-endorses-debt-riddled-beamz-players/) Flo Rida aka Tramar Lacel Dillard sold 75 million downloads.

I know, that article not stated records. But downloads could be determined as combination for all records sales in this digital download era. Therefore, if Dillard could reach the 75m-sales we should consider to bring him into the list with that source.

If you agree, I will still looking for another better source because to be honest I don't like a source from Forbes.

Need your advice. thanks Politsi (talk) 05:37, 10 June 2014 (UTC)

Hi Harout, are you there?. For now, I will try to find out the 75m-records claim for Flo Rida, and need your advice if I do not have to. thanks Politsi (talk) 11:03, 11 June 2014 (UTC)
 * Actually, I went over a few more markets for Flo Rida, and his total available certified sales are still only 48.9 million, with his singles certified sales standing at 48.5 million. As I mentioned above, Flo Rida needs 71.2% certified sales for his claimed figures, that would be 53.4 million certified units needed for 75 million claim, and 56.9 certified units for 80 million claim. So we'll just have to wait for him to collect some more certified sales. But it's best to avoid putting him on the list with a source that speaks of Flo Rida's downloads only, we should go with one that uses records.--Harout72 (talk) 15:39, 11 June 2014 (UTC)

R Kelly?? Source!!
I have found sources that says... FIVE that says how much albums he has sold worldwide and ONE that says how much singles he has sold in the US and together it passes 75 million so it's about time yall put him on there till we find another source that claims higher.

Album Worldwide:
 * http://mtv.in.com/thebuzz/music/this-day-in-music/tdim-elvis-presley-sean-paul-and-r-kellys-birthday-8th-jan-52119760.html
 * http://www.stubhub.com/r-kelly-tickets/alldate/
 * http://thatgrapejuice.net/2013/04/tgj-replay-kelly/
 * http://www.mamamia.com.au/entertainment/r-kelly-rape/#793HehaZhhj7pcvT.97
 * http://louisvillemusic.org/blog/2014/05/07/r-kelly-at-yum-2/

Singles US: 15:50, 13 June 2014 (UTC) - WazzzzUppppp (talk)
 * http://www.contactmusic.com/news/r-kellys-tax-debt-increases-to-a-cool-62-million_1412817
 * Your first five sources, most of which are not reliable, claim 60 million albums. This list begins from 75 million sales. We cannot add the figure for albums and the figure for singles from multiple sources to make up a total, claimed figures should come from a single source. Note that this list uses claimed figures published by news agencies.--Harout72 (talk) 15:04, 13 June 2014 (UTC)

Lady Gaga
A recent Billboard article stated that Lady Gaga's worldwide album sales are at 27 million, and her single sales at 125 million. Should this figure be considered instead of the other one, as the source used now is from 2012? --StephenG (talk) 16:41, 11 June 2014 (UTC)
 * This list requires all artists to have certain amount of certified sales. The details of that information can be found in the second yellow box from top on this talk-page. Since Lady Gaga has begun charting in 2008, her claimed figures need to be supported by 72.8% certified sales. That would be 110.6 million certified units for a claim as high as 152 million (27 million albums, and 125 million singles). Lady Gaga so far has 61.9 million certified units.--Harout72 (talk) 00:35, 12 June 2014 (UTC)


 * , I have found an article that states a claim of 87 million records total worldwide. 87 million records worldwide isn't too much for certified units, is it? The link is below if it is possible it can be added!

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-15340049


 * Please don't forget to sign your after your comments. Our current source is also reliable, but it's almost one year newer than the article you've provided above. The claimed figure in the current source is also closer to Lady Gaga's available certified sales, which is what we're looking for at this list. But I will keep your source in mind. Once her certified sales become 72-75 million units, I will consider replacing the current claimed figure with something higher.--Harout72 (talk) 01:47, 14 June 2014 (UTC)

Mozart, Vivaldi, Bach?
I wonder: in pop music it's mostly the interpreters who are well-known and sell under their name. In classical music, however, it's the composers. Is there any data concerning the likes of Bach, Beethoven, Mozart? Vivaldi ranks always high in the classical sales charts, is there a way to find out how much they sold? 77.12.141.233 (talk) 00:05, 12 June 2014 (UTC)


 * The only way to know their approximate sales is if there were Gold/Platinum certifications for them, but I can't find that many. Mozart has a Gold-certification (100,000 units) in the U.K. for Favourites from the Classics. In France, W.A. Mozart has Platinum and 2 Gold-awards (total 400,000 units]. In the U.S., there are a few certification-awards for the compositions of Beethoven, performed by others. Overall, it's almost impossible to find out their sales through the certified sales.--Harout72 (talk) 00:55, 12 June 2014 (UTC)

Thanks for your answer and thanks for all the work you're putting into this. "for the compositions of Beethoven, performed by others" was a funny one, since Beethoven died in 1827 and is rarely seen performing his own works recently :-) Amazon.com lists 4.300 results for "beatles cd", almost 24.000 for "beethoven cd". I realize that this does not necessarily amount to higher sales numbers and that it's difficult or impossible to get the real numbers. However I wonder if the list should be called "best-selling music artists" when it can only count interpreters (whether it's their own work or not)? 77.184.6.111 (talk) 09:31, 20 June 2014 (UTC)

Beyoncé Record Sales
Beyoncé records sales are wrongly stated on the best-selling artist page. She, as a solo, has sold over 120 million records WW, not 75 million. This has been proven by many people. Can someone please fix it?

Sources:http://www.hotnewhiphop.com/Beyonce/profile/, http://www.mtv.com/news/1703895/beyonce-bow-down-i-been-on-reality/, http://uk.mtvema.com/artists/beyonce/, http://www.independent.co.uk/news/people/profiles/beyonc-born-to-be-a-star-1890924.html, http://www.rap-up.com/2013/02/12/beyonce-shines-at-life-is-but-a-dream-premiere/, http://blog.clickitticket.com/post/Beyonce’s-Birthday-Mrs-Knowles-Carter-Turns-32.aspx — Preceding unsigned comment added by 50.153.112.9 (talk) 22:35, 18 June 2014 (UTC)
 * Since this list requires artists who have begun charting in 2002 to have their claimed figures supported by 75.7% certified sales, as in the case of Beyoncé, she would need 90 million certified units for a claim as high as 120 million. Beyoncé's certified sales are still only 58.6 million units.--Harout72 (talk) 00:45, 19 June 2014 (UTC)

The list you provided me is outdated; it does not include recent sales figures. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 50.153.112.136 (talk) 01:25, 19 June 2014 (UTC)
 * Unless you can provide sources for the sales figures you're speaking of, I won't know what recent figures those are. But the list I provided includes all recent Gold and Platinum certifications for Beyoncé, that is for every single music market.--Harout72 (talk) 02:39, 19 June 2014 (UTC)

As a solo artist, Beyonce has moved over 30 million albums - am I correct? That's does not include her soundtrack albums and her video albums - which would probably bring her album sales around 40 million. ( I think Beyoncé's last album BEYONCÉ should be counted as a double album since it included a video album too) That takes care 2/3 of her certified discography. If you were to add her single sales, I'm sure it would exceed 58 million.

I would also like to add that Beyoncé's solo career started in 2002 when she collaborated with Jay-Z. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 50.153.112.137 (talk) 16:09, 20 June 2014 (UTC)

Drunk in Love has been certified platinum by the RIAA, and BEYONCÉ has sold over 3,200,000 million copies WW ( 2M+ in the US) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 50.153.112.136 (talk) 16:41, 20 June 2014 (UTC)

Her first featured single charted in 2000. Her first solo single, Work It out, charted in 2002. It reached #7 on the UK charts. It was also certified gold by the ARIA. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 50.153.112.136 (talk) 16:45, 20 June 2014 (UTC)

According to the IFPI, Telephone - her featured single with Lady GaGa - has sold over 7M+ digital copies WW. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 50.153.114.130 (talk) 18:45, 20 June 2014 (UTC)

http://atrl.net/forums/showthread.php?t=323424 — Preceding unsigned comment added by 50.153.114.130 (talk) 19:05, 20 June 2014 (UTC)


 * This source you provided is unreliable, so I won't even take a look at it. But the single "Telephone" has only 1.7 certified units coming from 12 music markets, see this for detailed certified sales. "Telephone" hasn't been certified by RIAA, so I don't know the approximate figure for it in the U.S. As for "Drunk in Love", its Platinum-certification (1,000,000 units) is included in the total certified sales on the list, it's also on the file that I provided. Beyonce's certified album sales stand at 18 million, so the 30 million claim for her albums would be inflated by some 7-8 million units. Overall, the 120 million claim is way exaggerated as far as her records sales go. Based on her certified sales (58.7 million), she could not have sold some 75-80 million records maximum.--Harout72 (talk) 01:11, 21 June 2014 (UTC)

Bruno Mars with 79m-records (11m-albums and 68m-singles)
Harout, finally i've got the reliable source for Bruno's 79m-sales claim. please look at this source (http://www.theoaklandpress.com/arts-and-entertainment/20140612/local-roots-fortify-bruno-mars-musical-director)

Garry Graff have been told that claim at The Oakland Press. Then we should include Bruno Mars on the list now.

and if he still need only a few or a hundreds in certification sales, just forget it because i think as long as the distant between the certification with the claim sales less than a million. It's okay to put him on the list.

Need your help. thanks Politsi (talk) 05:34, 19 June 2014 (UTC)
 * That source will do, but he still hasn't reached his required 60 million certified units (or 76% certified sales) for a claim as high as 79 million . His certified sales are still only 59.4 million. That's 600,000 units short, I'll put him up on the list when he gets really close to 60 million. That might take a while if the RIAA doesn't issue a certification for Bruno Mars soon, as other markets have much lower certification-levels.--Harout72 (talk) 15:21, 19 June 2014 (UTC)

Come on Harout, It's only 600,000 units short and what's so different? (oh my god, your very strict rules are killing me) Politsi (talk) 01:22, 20 June 2014 (UTC)

Harout... To be honest, I hope you always keep an eye for Bruno Mars certification and update soon if his certification quite enough to reach 79m-sales... Because seeing that you just throwing the source i have given to you for Mars's claim with the reason of "only" 600.000 units short... that's hurt me much. thanks Politsi (talk) 02:55, 25 June 2014 (UTC)
 * Don't worry, I'll take care of it when he gets there. I don't know if you've noticed but I made some corrections to the requirements of this list, based on the global sales generated by the music markets we use here. So that slightly affected the required percentage of Bruno Mars as well as all others. His certified sales need to reach 62 million (or 78.5% certified sales) to get on the list. I'm pretty sure, he'll get there shortly. He's already at 59.9 million.--Harout72 (talk) 03:30, 25 June 2014 (UTC)

Robbie Williams with 77 million albums and singles
Harout, need your help. As I remember, you've said that Williams could be list with 77 million sales. And now I have found this source from Shields Gazette (http://www.shieldsgazette.com/what-s-on/robbie-williams-makes-jarrow-girl-s-dream-come-true-1-6693089) which claim Williams's 77m-albums and singles.

So if his albums and singles certification quite enough to support 77m-claim. We must include him on the list.

And Harout, To be honest. I spend a lot of my time and energy to find this claim sales for Williams, and I really hope this will happen to him (become a part of this prestigious list).

Thanks Politsi (talk) 05:48, 27 June 2014 (UTC)
 * Robbie Williams currently has 48 million certified units and his claimed figures need to be supported by 66% certified sales (remember I made some corrections to the required percentages). That would be 50.8 million certified units needed for 77 million claim. I'll remember your source above, once he's at 50.8 million, I'll be sure to put him up on the list.--Harout72 (talk) 06:04, 27 June 2014 (UTC)

Please remember it Harout... Please, because it's a little bit depressing after spend many time and energy to search a reliable source for some artists who deserve to be on the list but it fail with the reason only with 1-2 million short. Politsi (talk) 06:24, 27 June 2014 (UTC)
 * Politsi, you really don't have to put time and energy into locating sources if it takes too much out of you. But the list has requirements and they must be followed to avoid inflated figures. Whether it's million units or more missing, the required certified amount must first be collected by the said artists, and only then they should be added to the list. If the policy rejections are affecting you, perhaps you should not get yourself involved.--Harout72 (talk) 06:43, 27 June 2014 (UTC)

Hahaha.... that's deep Harout. But thank you for your advice. Harout, I do really care about the quality of this list since many artists became famous with the title of "one of the best-selling of all time" in media since this list begin so active in wikipedia. Harout, just do what you have to do to make this list quality always been on the top. Please do not take it personally of my comments if it's seems silly or wasting your time. Just take which one is useful for the list.

Let's keep up the good work for the list. Politsi (talk) 07:32, 27 June 2014 (UTC)

Metallica to 120m-records list
Harout, need your advice again. I've been noticed that this band has almost 90m-certification with record begin since 1983.

I'll get to the point, what do you think if we raise Metallica's claim sales to 120m-records with source from Cambridge News (http://www.cambridge-news.co.uk/Lifestyle-and-Leisure/Glastonbury-2014-line-up-has-something-for-all-ages-20140625131717.htm)

10 million additional claim seems realistic and not inflated I think. Need your help, thanks Politsi (talk) 07:51, 27 June 2014 (UTC)


 * They are still 20 million certified units away from the current 110 million claim, so once they get close to 100 million with their certified sales, we can update their claimed figure using your source above. For now they're ok.--Harout72 (talk) 15:43, 27 June 2014 (UTC)

Jennifer Lopez
Hi Harout & co. I'm curious as to the status of Ms. Lopez. I see several (inflated) articles listing 55m from when she joined Idol in 2012, then it jumped to 70m, now reporting 80m which is what is being listed on her main bio etc. I want it to be clear and all articles to mirror what we establish here. If you'd be so kind Harout, what are her certification levels and what is your opinion (and others please) on the matter (including her on this list at even 55m?) Cheers.-- Peter Griffin  &bull;  Talk2Me   22:48, 24 June 2014 (UTC)
 * Well, Jennifer Lopez's certified sales are only 31.6 million. Since the question has been posted here, I'll explain basing on the requirements of this list. If the list offered sections for claimed figures such as 55 million and 70 million, Lopez would need both claims supported by 72% certified sales as she's begun charting in 1999. That is 39.6 million certified units needed for 55 million claim, and 50.4 million certified units needed for 70 million claim. Based on her available certified sales, she couldn't qualify for this list. And this list uses enough music markets which cover 90% of the global sales, in some years even more as the figures slightly fluctuate every year. Note that by 1999, when Lopez started appearing on the charts, the music markets covering 86.7% of the global sales, did have certification-systems, and we use them all here. My personal opinion about her true actual sales is, she has sold some 40-42 million records maximum worldwide (singles, albums, videos, digital, physical all combined). So, I'd go with the lower available claimed sales, even though, that is inflated also.--Harout72 (talk) 00:55, 25 June 2014 (UTC)
 * I'm glad we're on the same page. I suggest we leave 55m in place for her biography and other related articles just as a mantelpiece, but obviously leave her off this list.-- Peter Griffin  &bull;  Talk2Me   07:59, 25 June 2014 (UTC)

— Status  ( talk  ·  contribs ) 11:09, 25 June 2014 (UTC)
 * A few things:
 * In 2012, Forbes listed her album sales at 40 million, so she has definitely sold more than 40-42 records (they are most definitely a reliable source and would not post inflated sales).
 * In 2012, the IFPI reported that "On the Floor" sold 8.4 million copies.
 * In 2013, Billboard reported sales for her her top 5 US digital singles (excluding "On the Floor" here because it would be included in the WW sales mentioned above):
 * 1.2 million, "Dance Again"
 * 692,000, "Get Right"
 * 601,000, "I'm Into You"
 * 538,000, "Do It Well" (not certified)
 * With that in mind, we are up to 51,431,000 with worldwide album sales, "On the Floor" worldwide sales, and the US digital sales of four other singles.
 * The 55 million figure is definitely not an inflated one; the 80 million figure definitely is. The 70 million figure might be possible.


 * Reliable sources publish inflated figures all the time, this is nothing new. Had Lopez really sold 40 million albums as Forbes or others claim, she would have had at least 30 million certified album units. Her certified album sales are only 17.5 million, 11 million of which comes from the U.S. market. For newer artists like Lopez, we should always have their claimed figures covered by 70% certified sales, if such isn't the case, then, there is something wrong with that picture. For example, in the U.S. Lopez has sold:


 * Actual album sales: 12,167,000 albums — Certified album sales: 11,000,000
 * Actual digital singles sales: 7,021,000 — Certified digital sales: 5,100,000.


 * The certified sales illustrate even more accurate picture in other markets as the certification-levels are much lower everywhere else than in the U.S., which helps them to avoid huge gaps standing between the Gold and Platinum awards, like the U.S. Gold (500,000 units) and Platinum (1,000,000 units), or the 1st Platinum and the 2nd Platinum.--Harout72 (talk) 15:14, 25 June 2014 (UTC)


 * Mate. You just expressed to me the other day that even though Billboard listed certain sales of an album, it still could very well be inflated. How does that logic not apply when discussing Forbes listing of her sales? Sources of all kind are fed inflated sales by record labels for promotional purposes (especially when promoting an artist's new projects/albums/stints). I think it's safest to use 55m for the sake of her biography, but it's clear they are closer to the 40-45m range as Harout said.-- Peter Griffin  &bull;  Talk2Me   19:26, 25 June 2014 (UTC)
 * I only said that about Billboard because it has been deemed time and time again that the 110 million figure for Thriller was unrealistic, thus questioning the reliability of that specific source. How can you sit there and tell me Forbes (a widely respectable publication) is not reliable for sales in this instance, but BET is for Music Box? I completely understand sources being "fed" inflated sales, but what seems to bother me is that it doesn't seem to apply to Mariah (to you). I took your explanation at face value, as I really don't care nor have the time for such a discussion. For this neither, so do whatever you want I guess? It's nice to see you applying a two-person consensus, by the way. — Status  ( talk  ·  contribs ) 04:55, 26 June 2014 (UTC)
 * I don't see why you have to take it personally, and bring another artist into this discussion. Our talk was in regards to a difference of 4 million copies of an album that was released over 20 years ago (with sources from several other reputable sources). This situation is of a range of 25 million for an artist that clearly doesn't meet the criteria. Every time I try and heighten Carey's sales (which some take as non-neutral) I at least do so abiding by rules and with actual fathomable numbers. I attempted to add Carey at 220m records recently. That's 60% of her sales, more than the 50% required or an artist of 1990. True I might not be perfect, but my edits are from what you're insinuating and I don't appreciate it. Lopez began in 1999, has certifications of 32m and you're trying to pass her off as 70-80m. Carey (who has a career double the length) has 130m and is listed at 175-200m. You want to tell me how 25% of hers equates to almost half of Carey's sales (accounting for the certification year gaps as well?). Lastly, I don't think I ever even used the word consensus. I used the words talk page, which is where I provided solid facts and evidence to make my edit. In fact, I patiently waited a day for responses on her bio page and none of you had the decency to respond. I respect your work, I like you, but I don't appreciate you turning a factual discussion in an accusatory assault. Before you go about calling the kettle black, you should know all of us are in some way NPOV when it comes to the artist we like. We're human, and you're demonstrating it right now. Cheers mate and please cut out all the sarcastic edit comments. PS. As you've said with Billboard and Thriller, I quite frankly could care less who said 40m albums. Point of the matter is it's obviously as true as Forbes claiming Lopez is a man.-- Peter Griffin  &bull;  Talk2Me   05:33, 26 June 2014 (UTC)

is someone asking and talking about Mariah Carey? Politsi (talk) 05:34, 27 June 2014 (UTC)
 * Being as it seems you cannot read, yes, someone brought her up trying to make a point.-- Peter Griffin  &bull;  Talk2Me   16:08, 27 June 2014 (UTC)

Katy Perry certification
, Perry has over 72 million certified claimed sales in US alone now. Just note this for future addition and updation of Perry here. — Indian: BIO  · [ ChitChat  ] 16:04, 26 June 2014 (UTC)
 * I'm confused. How is it that the counted tally is at 42m? They are indicating certifications (shipments) so why is there such a large discrepancy?-- Peter Griffin  &bull;  Talk2Me   16:42, 26 June 2014 (UTC)
 * The list indicating Perry's certified shipments is outdated here in the list. Just today she got over 36 million+ of certified singles in RIAA database. Her total certified sales per the association is now at 75 million. — Indian: BIO  · [ ChitChat  ] 19:01, 26 June 2014 (UTC)
 * Oh, so you're saying they updated all of this just today? It would be cool if we could dig up a source listing her at 100-120m records and move her up into the next section. Seems more than appropriate. I didn't realize so many of her singles remained un-certified.-- Peter Griffin  &bull;  Talk2Me   23:07, 26 June 2014 (UTC)

I updated Perry's certified sales as well as the claimed figure from the previous 86 million to 92 million. But her total certified sales now stand at 98.2 million, which is 6.2 million units more than the current claimed figure; therefore, can be updated further. Since she's begun charting in 2008, 77.8% certified sales is required, so her 98.2 million certified sales can support figures of up to 126 million (Singles, Albums, Videos combined). I personally, couldn't find anything in that neighborhood, but if someone does, please keep us posted here.--Harout72 (talk) 01:13, 27 June 2014 (UTC)
 * Thanks, but yeah source is pretty difficult to find. I just did a whole check with numerous combinations of her record sales, but nada. — Indian: BIO  · [ ChitChat  ] 06:40, 27 June 2014 (UTC)

well .. no one will find any source cuz the blogs and magazines ... take the info from her wiki page unless you put it in higher column and if all her certification updated not jus the US she will be like Rihanna I think

lol I know you hate me but I had to say s0mething 77.44.232.141 (talk) 15:55, 28 June 2014 (UTC)
 * IP user, please provide a source else do not waste other's time posting nonsense. — Indian: BIO  · [ ChitChat  ] 16:42, 28 June 2014 (UTC)

Coldplay
Harout, need your help. How many actually their certification sales total, is it quite enough to support 80m-sales? Because, at this moment I'm trying to find the 80m-claim for them, because it seems they could reach that.

thanks. Politsi (talk) 01:42, 30 June 2014 (UTC)
 * Actually, they would need 60 million units of certified sales for a claim as high as 80 million because they've begun charting in 2000 (75% required). Their available certified sales are only 48.1 million, which can support 64.2 million claim, but such section we don't have.--Harout72 (talk) 03:33, 30 June 2014 (UTC)

The Doors
The Doors have sold 100 million records worldwide not 80 million. In 2008 Ray Manzarek say in the documentary "When You're Strange" The Doors have sold more 80 million records worldwide and every year sold 1 million. After six year is possible that the doors have sold 100 million records worldwide.

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/ray-manzarek-founding-member-of-the-doors-dies-at-74/

http://m.music.cbc.ca/blogs/2013/11/Strange-Days-drummer-John-Densmore-looks-back-on-life-with-the-Doors

http://www.thevinyldistrict.com/sanfrancisco/2011/08/manzarek-krieger-of-the-doors-blow-the-roof-off-the-regency-ballroom-exclusive-photos/

http://m.aljazeera.com/story/2013520225210903504

Nanettum (talk) 09:33, 30 June 2014 (UTC)
 * We keep all artists with those claimed figures that are closer to their certified sales. This is stated in the lead of the list. Aside from that, based on the available certified sales of The Doors, 46.7 million, their actual figure may or may not have reached 80 million. The 100 million is completely inflated possibly by The Doors' record company for promotional purposes.--Harout72 (talk) 14:01, 30 June 2014 (UTC)

The Doors discography
Hi, RIAA isn't updated for the album "Future Starts Here: The Essential Doors Hits" having sold in December 2013 500,000 copies becoming gold disk. That is why it is a total of 33 million more than 33,5 million.

Studio Albums:
 * The Doors first album 4 million
 * Strange Days 1 million
 * Waiting for the Sun 1 million
 * The Soft Parade 1 million
 * Morrison Hotel 1 million
 * L.A Woman 2 million
 * An American Prayer 1 million

Live Albums
 * Absolutely Live 500,000
 * Alive She Cried 500,000
 * In Concert 1 million

Compilation:
 * 13 compilation 1 million
 * Weird Scenes inside the Goldmine 500,000
 * The Doors Greatest Hits (LP version) 3 million
 * The Best of The Doors (1985) 10 million
 * The Doors Soundtrack 1 million
 * The Doors Greatest Hits (CD version) 2 million
 * The Doors Box Set 1 million
 * The Very Best of The Doors (2001) 500,000
 * The Absolute Best 500,000
 * The Very Best of (2007) 500,000
 * THE FUTURE STARTS HERE: THE ESSENTIAL DOORS HITS 500,000

Singles:
 * Light My Fire 1 million
 * Hello, I Love You 1 million
 * Touch Me 1 million

Video Albums:
 * A Tribute to Jim Morrison 100,000
 * Dance on Fire 100,000
 * Live At The Hollywood Bowl 100,000
 * The Doors Collector's Edition 100,000
 * Live In Europe 1968 100,000
 * Soundstage Performances 50,000
 * When You're Strange 50,000

TOTAL sales US : 37,1 million.

Bominchina (talk 15:15, 27 June 2014 (UTC)


 * You seem to have one additional Gold listed above for The Very Best of The Doors released in 2001. I can't find any Gold certification for that. There is Gold for only The Very Best of The Doors released in 2007. And the other one is 10x Platinum for The Best of The Doors released in 1973.--Harout72 (talk) 15:27, 27 June 2014 (UTC)

RIAA confused (The Best of doors 1973 with the best of the doors 1985 certification Diamond 10 x Platinum). The best of The Doors 2000 is certified Gold record 500,000 units. http://www.everythingcollectible.com/m/index.php?page=product&product_id=21017 Nanettum (talk 9:15, 30 June 2014 (UTC)
 * The image in the source you've provided above has the flag of the UK, and it says on the record at the bottom right corner of it, 500,000 units sold worldwide, not in the U.S. only. I'm not sure if it's supposed to be the Gold record of BPI.--Harout72 (talk) 14:21, 30 June 2014 (UTC)

Bowie
According to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Bowie should be in the list - 140mil referenced in intro. Not sure how to source for this list tho. 2.28.3.145 (talk) 16:48, 30 June 2014 (UTC)
 * David Bowie only can be listed with a maximum 100m-records. Please help by finding a reliable source from Newspaper or News Media Agency to support that claim. Politsi (talk) 02:48, 1 July 2014 (UTC)

Pink aka Alicia Beth Moore
Harout, need your help to check and verify again the certification sales total of Pink, is it enough to support 90m-claim?

Newsroom from KLKN (http://www.klkntv.com/story/21674082/pink-to) has been stated 40m-albums and 50m-singles sold of Pink.

And this is the only reliable source I have found for that claim. Need your advice. thanks Politsi (talk) 03:20, 1 July 2014 (UTC)


 * The sources integrity is a bit questionable. It's not third-party and is being used in direct promotion of Pink's concert and her success as a backdrop for it.-- Peter Griffin  &bull;  Talk2Me   08:22, 1 July 2014 (UTC)
 * Pink needs her claimed figures supported by 75% certified sales, that is 67.5 million certified units needed for a claim as high as 90 million. Her available certified sales are 52 million.--Harout72 (talk) 20:52, 1 July 2014 (UTC)

Garth Brooks
Harout, need your advice. I've seen that Brooks's certification sales has been reach 142m and his claim sales only stuck at 150m. Same situation with Katy Perry and Eminem.

Harout, what if I have found a reliable source which claim 190m-records for Brooks? Are you agree if we put that claim on the list when Brooks certification sales pass 150 million?

need your opinion. thanks Politsi (talk) 02:17, 2 July 2014 (UTC)
 * , appreciate your hard work, so please see if you can find reliable sources for the above three artists. Then it can surely be added. — Indian: BIO  · [ ChitChat  ] 03:59, 2 July 2014 (UTC)
 * Garth Brooks' claimed figure can definitely be updated, but 190 million records would be too inflated for him and too far off from his available certified sales. Let's bear in mind that Brooks isn't an internationally popular artist, the 95% of his records sales are generated by the U.S. music market. So a figure in the neighborhood of some 160-165 should work for him. In any case, his certified sales are still some 6 million units below his claimed figure, so for now, it's not an emergency to update his 150 million claim. Let me know if you come across a higher figure.--Harout72 (talk) 05:23, 2 July 2014 (UTC)

Harout, I agree for now that we still comfortable to let Brooks at the list with 150m-records claim, but We've been know that Brooks is one of the most popular singers in U.S ever, when he release his new albums I believe his U.S certification sales will increase heavily. So when his certification had passed 150m-records, we should find another new claim figure for him.

And Harout, I hope you would understand that we can not hope that all reliable source out there will be release the same amount exactly as we counting or calculated based on our list requirement. Therefore, we should consider the claim sales near by our calculation.

For example, if Brook's certification has been reach 155 million or more. 190m-records is not so inflated to cover his claim sales, in fact if we still insist to put him with 150m-claim, I'm afraid the reliability of this list would be lower.

Harout, Smoky Mountain News (http://smokymountainnews.com/news/item/1401-meet-three-hitmakers-at-sept-25-songwriters-in-the-round) mention about 190m-sales CD combination of Brooks and John Michael Montgomery. I will updated Brook's own wikibiography with that claim, and let's see from now. I believe another newspaper will be follow to release the same claim for Brooks.

What do you think?. thanks Politsi (talk) 09:32, 2 July 2014 (UTC)


 * Your source above doesn't seem to speak about CD sales of Brooks or even John Michael Montgomery, it simply says that 190 million CDs feature their music. In other words, there could be lot of country music compilation albums released which include one or two songs of Brooks with the rest of 95% by other singers. Also, we're not interested in combined sales figures, unless the figures for each artist is separate and specific, in this case it isn't. Therefore, I reverted your edit at the page of Garth Brooks. If you're not 100% sure you understand the information given in the content of a source, you should never replace the existing sources.--Harout72 (talk) 15:00, 2 July 2014 (UTC)

Harout, I just try to make a new claim figure for Brooks and of course I also understand that the source I provided above is NOT GOOD at all. But at least I hope there will be another 190 million records claim release for Brooks out there after I posted that source at Brooks's page.

Because, don't you think it will be look silly for the list? if finally Brooks reach 160m-certification sales while we still hanging with 150m-records claim? We should do a quick action to prevent that.

I believe you understand that I just do my best to make the list very complete and the claim figures source inside is reliable to see. So, please let me handle with my own special way.

And Harout... I still hope Bruno Mars and Robbie Williams entering the list, I really need your help and consideration regarding with their calculation certification sales.

thanks Politsi (talk) 01:39, 3 July 2014 (UTC)

And Harout, if that's happen (if finally Brooks reach 151m-certification or more sales while we still hanging with 150m-records claim) a quite reliable blog from Nikki Miller/City Pages Newspaper author (http://blogs.citypages.com/gimmenoise/2012/11/ten_reasons_we_still_love_garth_brooks.php) has been stated that claim / 190 million albums, and we could use this information for the list someday.

Is it right Harout? Politsi (talk) 02:02, 3 July 2014 (UTC)


 * The City Pages itself is a tabloid, the reliability of which isn't at the same level as traditional newspapers'. And the 190 million claim coming from a blog makes it even worse. So, that is not a good source, and the 190 million for Brooks is inflated. That should not be used even if Brooks hits the 150 million mark with his certified sales. That would create a gap of 40 million units. You should not have used that source at the Brooks page either. The 150 million claim was just fine.--Harout72 (talk) 02:29, 3 July 2014 (UTC)

Harout, don't forget that a famous traditional newspaper also could not be trust 100% (such as L.A Times which is often release an inflated sales, like Jennifer Lopez with her fake 80m-records claim). Therefore if the source still came out from a Newspaper or even a Blog from a Newspaper reporter (tabloid/traditional newspaper) and the claim meet our requirement calculation, we should considering it.

To be honest, seeing Katy Perry and Eminem with their weird claim sales. It could make the list quality look worse. It's bad enough already I think for the list and hopefully Brooks's claim not follow the same situation like them (Perry and Eminem)

Brooks's records release since 1989, which make him a quite old artist.Politsi (talk) 02:51, 3 July 2014 (UTC)
 * While Brooks may not be a new artist as you pointed out, all of the music markets that he's sold his materials in, whether the U.S., U.K., Canada, all of them do offer their certifications going back to 1989 and even many years further back. So it doesn't matter for Brooks having started circa 1990, because as I mentioned above, he's never been famous in those music markets which began offering their certifications in late 1990s. As for Eminem, it's better to keep him with 100 million claim than using something as inflated as 200 million.--Harout72 (talk) 03:21, 3 July 2014 (UTC)

Okay then Harout, let the time will tell. When Brooks finally reach 160 million or more in certification sales. Hopefully you agree with me to raise his claim sales to 190m-records (I will try to find the better source than City Pages)

Meanwhile. Please do your talent here Harout, you're the one who always capable to updating those artist certification sales, while I will looking for reliable source to support it. Politsi (talk) 03:39, 3 July 2014 (UTC)

different results for different languages...
The amount of records/cd sold by an artist should be the same no matter whether the article is in Italian, Russian or English. And with wikipedia, it is a very different figure we see. People like Rihanna are said to have sold thrice as many albums on the American page than on any other one (of course, except the ones like Spanish which have just been translated from English!). There is a problem there which makes all your numbers useless for any research. Compare the Italian page, which seems to rely on official numbers, the French one and the English one and draw the conclusions yourself. It upsets me not so much about the music business but because it enables anyone to discuss the validity of the information you find on wikipedia and starts again the old problem of its unreliability. I thought the issue had been cleared a long time ago and that you would only find small differences linked to cultural discrepancies but this article bothers me. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 65.94.90.125 (talk) 20:24, 14 July 2014 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 18 July 2014
Please change the standing of the Backstreet Boys because they have sold over 130 million albums. This page says 100 million http://www.imdb.com/name/nm1477802/bio

76.183.241.145 (talk) 05:48, 18 July 2014 (UTC)
 * ❌ Please read the talk header at the beginning of List of best-selling music artists to understand how we update the sales for each artsit. And also, IMDB is an unreliable source. — Indian: BIO  · [ ChitChat  ] 06:22, 18 July 2014 (UTC)

Eminem 115m-sales
Harout, I change Eminem's claim sales to 115m-claim with a source from the leading internet portal in Bangladesh (Priyo.com), is not a reliable source I know.

But we have to increase Eminem's claim in the list If we want the quality of the list still in a good shape. If you don't agree, just revert it.

thanks Politsi (talk) 03:05, 21 July 2014 (UTC)


 * I'm not sure why you replaced Eminem's sales source with an unreliable one, especially when you knew that Priyo News isn't reliable. We don't have to update Eminem's or others sales figures unless we have a reliable source claiming higher figures than the current 100 million. The quality of the list, in fact, decreases when unreliable sources are used.--Harout72 (talk) 15:14, 21 July 2014 (UTC)

Well, I just feel not comfortable seeing eminem still stuck behind metallica and even Taylor Swift at the list, he deserve better than that. 112m-certification vs 100m-records. It's very unfair.

Like I said, just revert it. Harout, you know my style very well I believe. Politsi (talk) 02:24, 23 July 2014 (UTC)

Lady Gaga
This BBC article (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-15340049) states Gaga has sold 87 million records worldwide. This article is also in the talk archives of this page, but the reasoning for not updating her sales isn't that solid. I'm sure this claim of 87 million records worldwide is reliable and enough to boost Gaga up the list a little bit. Please add this information, Thanks! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.205.172.29 (talk) 22:20, 29 July 2014 (UTC)
 * In order for us to use the 87 million claim, Lady Gaga would need to reach 67.6 million units with her certified units as artists who have begun charting in 2008 need their claimed figures supported by 77.8% certified sales. So far, her available certified units are 62.2 million.--Harout72 (talk) 00:35, 30 July 2014 (UTC)

Britney Spears
The Britney entry doesn't make sense. In August 2012, as you can read on http://www.billboard.com/articles/news/480544/la-reid-courts-britney-spears-for-record-deal, Billboard said that she had sold some 100 million copies of her first 7 albums worldwide. How can she have sold 100 million records in all? What about the many greatest hits collections, the first (Greatest Hits: My Prerogative) being quite successful? And what about the singles? I just took some singles as a sample: "...Baby One More Time" sold more than 10 million copies worldwide, "Gimme More" 3, "Womanizer" 5, "Circus" 5,5, "3" more than 3, "Hold It Against Me" 2, "Till The World Ends" 4 and "I Wanna Go" 2. The total of just those few singles is about 35 million copies. And she's released many more throughout her career. How come only the albums are taken into consideration? In cases like Rihanna, who's sold some 30-40 million albums in all, "records" means "albums" AND "singles". Otherwise she would be nowhere near the 100 million records mark. How come in Britney's case "records" only means "albums"? As I've proven, she's had a lot of very successful singles, too. Therefore, she shouldn't be in the 100 to 119 slot, but in the 120 to 199. Some say that she's sold 100 million singles, but even if we play it safe, the numbers indicate that she must have sold at least some 50 million copies. The safe estimated record sales should then be 150. And even though certifications are an ambiguous criterion (you should have the exact sales of all countries in the world to have precise data), they still back the estimate sales. Could somebody fix it, please? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Dreamboy81 (talk • contribs) 09:20, 31 July 2014 (UTC)
 * , please read the lead section of the list which explains how the record sales are calculated for each artist. Britney started charting in 1999, so her total sales are supposed to be certified by 75% claim. Her total certification stands at 76 million, which can roughly claim sales of 100 million and not more than that. — Indian: BIO  · [ ChitChat  ] 10:18, 31 July 2014 (UTC)

NZ certifications for Madonna
can you tell me if the RIANZ certifications for Madonna's records were included in the tally? — Indian: BIO  · [ ChitChat  ] 18:05, 4 August 2014 (UTC)
 * No, because Madonna's available New Zealand certified sales are only 60,000 units so far. The list as you may already know, uses those markets which have 100,000 + in certified sales. The 60,000 units includes only the certifications that appear on .--Harout72 (talk) 18:18, 4 August 2014 (UTC)
 * , in that document, "Hung Up" is missing from her UK tally. Certified platinum on 22 July 2013, 600K sales claimed by OCC. — Indian: BIO  · [ ChitChat  ] 18:33, 4 August 2014 (UTC)
 * Good catch, it's also posted at BPI. I will correct her UK's certified sales shortly.--Harout72 (talk) 18:58, 4 August 2014 (UTC)

Robbie Williams (Again...)
Harout (and maybe the other editors), I need your help to show William's actual sales in each countries, because this man is not a US CAREER focus, unlike the other singer in the list whose certification really dominate at the US Sales.

Williams in the other hand was so popular outside US, but still could reach 49m-certification sales. I really need consider from you guys to bring him on the list with his 77m-sales (eventhough he still need more two million in certification sales), looking base on his popularity around the world and not focus only in US. (Making it possible he has sold very much more than his certification sales).

Harout, I hope you would give your time to answer my consideration for Williams above. thanks Politsi (talk) 02:56, 5 August 2014 (UTC)
 * It really doesn't matter whether Williams has been popular in the U.S. or not. The requirements of the certified sales are based on how far back each music market's certifications go, and what portion of global sales each market represents in terms of percentage. The details of that information are posted right below the required percentages above on this page, in the second yellow box. So, for 77 million claim, Williams would need 50.8 million certified units (or 66% certified sales) as he's begun appearing on the charts in 1997 with his solo career. His available certified sales are still 48.1 million (37.8 million certified albums, 7.8 million certified singles, 2.5 million certified videos).--Harout72 (talk) 05:25, 5 August 2014 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 9 August 2014
Edit Lady Gaga sales she sold 130 m. copyes of her albums + singles and other stuff you should correct that!

217.75.143.36 (talk) 21:53, 9 August 2014 (UTC)
 * The current figure is correct.--Harout72 (talk) 15:49, 10 August 2014 (UTC)

Air Supply
According to wikipedia Australian band Air Supply have sold more than 100 million records worldwide, shouldn't they be included ? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 122.57.174.252 (talk) 21:57, 14 August 2014 (UTC)


 * This list requires certain amount of certified sales based on the years artists begin to chart. You might want to refer to this archived discussion for Air Supply. --Harout72 (talk) 22:54, 14 August 2014 (UTC)

Elvis Presley a Billion Sales ?
It appears Elvis Presley has a claim to topping the list as the only artist who has topped the billion mark. The following sources put him at a billion; MTV http://www.mtv.com/artists/elvis-presley/ who seem to have accepted the research conducted by the Elvis Information Network http://www.elvisinfonet.com/elvisvsbeatlespart1.html

Put simply, the RIAA methods have effectively penalised Presley, if they've bothered to accurately count his sales at all.

How about this gem..''.The RIAA certifications are based on documented sales figures and in the case of older artists these figures simply do not exist any more. In the case of Elvis the RCA figures are incomplete, most importantly sales during the 12 months after Elvis' death are unaccounted for. BILLBOARD wrote in September 1977 that RCA shipped 20 million records a week. They had as many as 40 pressing plants working overtime to cope with the demand. RCA November releases were postponed, in order to supply Elvis product and at one time during the period more than 1/3 of all sales in the country market was Elvis Presley product. On top of this tens of millions of records sold through outside companies including record clubs, are mainly unaccounted for in RIAA totals.''--122.57.174.252 (talk) 13:58, 17 August 2014 (UTC)

Backstreet Boys
I just noticed in reading through and having seen a preview of their movie (I also checked it on their wikipedia page as well) that the Backstreet Boys are only at 100 million when they are actually at 130+ million now (the page may have been done before their newest CDs came out and wasnt updated for them is all, not sure) so they should actually be right below Genesis in the 120+ section. Now I realize that their page can be edited but the boys themselves and Nielson ratings put them at 130+ as well — Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.205.158.71 (talk) 14:21, 19 August 2014 (UTC)

Depeche Mode
The main article from Depeche Mode included a Link to here (right at the beginning of the article) but here is nothing written down about them (over 150 million Copies they sold until today). Is that right? --2003:73:4F35:8501:F0C4:30D5:3690:8FCF (talk) 15:06, 18 August 2014 (UTC)
 * Someone had played around with that figure there. I corrected it to 75 million per the source provided there.--Harout72 (talk) 15:15, 18 August 2014 (UTC)
 * I´m sorry but that`s wrong; they sold over 100 Mio.: Echo.de and also the Biography Just can`t get enough: Depeche Mode from Simon Spence and: --2003:73:4F35:8501:EDA1:9980:191E:B4FA (talk) 20:39, 18 August 2014 (UTC)
 * I wouldn't believe those promotional sales figures tossed about by their record company. Their worldwide available certified sales are only some 26 million (albums, singles, videos combined), which actually suggests that their actual worldwide sales may not even be anywhere close to 75 million records.--Harout72 (talk) 22:20, 18 August 2014 (UTC)
 * Well with all respect but why should a document from anywhere in the internet say more about than a record company? Also the Bundesverband Musikindustrie-Link is more than useful AND the biography. But to be in your opinion - why is Barry White with "Total available certified units: 22.9 million" more worth than 26 Millions at "100 million to 119 million records"? --2003:73:4F35:8501:A9B3:6597:34D2:DD41 (talk) 06:15, 19 August 2014 (UTC)
 * IP user, I would suggest you read the top of the list that clearly explains how the sales are derived based on the certifications. The editors have said this countless times, its better that you read it. — Indian: BIO  · [ ChitChat  ] 06:39, 19 August 2014 (UTC)
 * IP user, the document I provided, lists Depeche Mode's certified sales coming from all significant markets. The figures on there have been converted from Gold/Platinum awards issued and posted in the databases of certifying agencies including Bundesverband Musikindutrie, see the sources posted on that document below each music market. As for Barry White, he's begun charting in 1973. A fewer markets offer their certifications going back to 1973 vs others like DM, who've begun charting after 1980. Also, you should know that the List of best-selling music artists uses claimed sales for each artist/band that are closer to their available certified sales.--Harout72 (talk) 14:35, 19 August 2014 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 19 August 2014
Please change footnote 194 and "100 Million" to "200 Million"

I noticed that the artist Eminem is the only one who has more certified units than what's shown in the "claimed sales" column. So I did a little digging and found this article on SiriusXM.com at http://investor.siriusxm.com/releasedetail.cfm?ReleaseID=800866 where the PR people from Eminem's own satellite radio channel, Shade45 claims that "[he]has sold over 80 million albums and 120 million singles worldwide." 200 million units put him in the neighborhood of Mariah Carey and Celine Dion who also have about the same number of certified units in the same time period as Eminem.

74.196.17.77 (talk) 15:11, 19 August 2014 (UTC)
 * ❌ You answered your own question there when you mentioned that it is Eminem's PR people who claimed those sales. We rely on third party reliable sources, not PR fluff. — Indian: BIO  · [ ChitChat  ] 15:14, 19 August 2014 (UTC)
 * Also note that Eminem's available certified sales could only list him with claimed sales of 156 million records maximum based on the requirements of this list, which is 72% certified sales for artists who've begun charting in 1999.--Harout72 (talk) 15:53, 19 August 2014 (UTC)

this page describes claimed sales as numbers that are most likely inflated because of record companies desire to influence more sales which is why there is a separate category for certified sales and claimed sales. At the least the third party sources used for the certified sales can be used to even out the numbers in the claimed column — Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.196.17.77 (talk) 00:57, 20 August 2014 (UTC)
 * As explained before, Eminem's PR fluff is not reliable third party source. — Indian: BIO  · [ ChitChat  ] 06:20, 20 August 2014 (UTC)

Correction for Motown ?
Are the existing requirements for Certified units unduly harsh ?

Motown is being penalised by the requirement for the given percentage of certified units. Discussion below.--122.57.174.252 (talk) 14:57, 16 August 2014 (UTC)

According to this article in The New Yorker, Motown refused to have its sales audited. http://www.newyorker.com/culture/culture-desk/did-thriller-really-sell-a-hundred-million-copies

Can a case be made to include their artists based on estimates rather than confirmed sales ?

Incidentally this article cites Guillaume Vieira who calculated for Michael Jackson sales of 515 million records ( embedded links evidence this ). Jackson, apparently, is up there with the Beatles.
 * Figures claimed by music fans cannot be used here. Also, Jackson doesn't have enough certified sales to assume that he's sold over 515 million. While Guillaume Vieira claims that Thriller could have sold 15 million in Europe alone, based on available certified sales coming from Europe, it is only 8.2 million. True that lot of the music markets didn't have certification-systems back then when Thriller was released, but then the key markets did, including those who generated (and still do) over 75% of the entire European sales.--Harout72 (talk) 15:24, 15 August 2014 (UTC)

The source I used is reputable and not generated by a ' fan ' as you say. The New Yorker article is recently published and the figures are itemised country by country in the embedded link. Please revise the placing on the list to reflect the accurate picture ( Jackson 515 million not 300-400 million ).

There is a flaw in your methodology, this arbitrary linking of RIAA and other official figures to claimed sales ( of 20% and the like ). Linking like that assumes artists are thoroughly audited, well, what about Motown artists or others who belong to recording companies not RIAA members ? You have systematically excluded them !! So we end up with a so-called reputable list where Diana Ross is excluded. This wouldn't matter if it was buried somewhere no-one would look, but if someone Googles the issue, they'll get this list first on the page. Basically, what we have here, with this little list, is ' lies, damn lies and statistics." — Preceding unsigned comment added by 122.57.174.252 (talk) 22:16, 15 August 2014 (UTC)
 * I'm not sure where you see the flaw. The certified sales of all artists are thoroughly audited. You might want to read the lead of this list more carefully to familiarize yourself with the details the list requires. I'm also not sure what you mean by what about Motown artists or others who belong to recording companies not RIAA members ?. Motown is a label, while RIAA is the agency in the U.S. that certifies Gold and Platinum awards. The claimed figures on the list are as close to the truth as they can be, including Jackson's. As for Dianna Ross, her worldwide available certified sales are only some 12.7 million, which isn't even enough for 75 million claim based on the requirements of the list. The required percentages and other related details, you can find at the top of this very talk-page, see second yellow box from the top.--Harout72 (talk) 22:43, 15 August 2014 (UTC)

Harout, you clearly do not understand why there would be a discrepancy between so-called ' certified ' sales and those claimed by the record company. It appears you think the higher figures exist due to record company hype. RIAA figures are only those audited, that is, the record company submits its application, pays the fee and pays for an auditor to travel the USA counting sales. Smaller record companies and those like Motown who do not belong to the RIAA ( who pay a higher fee to be audited ) simply do not have their sales audited to the same extent. Even large companies only selectively audit. So, with large companies a discrepancy exists, and a larger discrepancy the smaller or more independent the label.

Your list is bringing wikipedia into disrepute. You appear to be claiming that Diana Ross has not sold records. This contradicts all other sources which say she is one of the top selling female artists !! I have also proven using a recently published source from a reputable publisher that Michael Jackson's sales exceed 500 million ( not the 300-400 million you claim ), yet you refuse to adjust based on this evidence.

The flaw in your methodology is contained in the 20% threshold, an arbitrary line in the sand invented by you and which has no validity. Oh and by the way, MTV which you stipulate is authoritative, put Jackson worldwide sales at 750 million ....''During his extraordinary career, he sold an estimated 750 million records worldwide, released 13 No.1 singles and became one of a handful of artists to be inducted twice into the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame. The Guinness Book of World Records recognized Jackson as the Most Successful Entertainer of All Time and "Thriller" as the Biggest Selling Album of All Time. Jackson won 13 Grammy Awards and received the American Music Award's Artist of the Century Award.'' http://www.mtv.com/artists/michael-jackson/ Clearly now you must either elevate Jackson to number one, or omit him as not meeting your certified threshold.--122.57.174.252 (talk) 03:22, 16 August 2014 (UTC)


 * The fee that member record companies pay in the U.S. to get records certified is $350 vs the $450 for non members, no big difference. All record companies anxiously wait for their artists to reach the Gold/Platinum certification-levels to jump in and get their records certified, which frequently are used when marketing their artists' upcoming materials.


 * As for Diana Ross, I don't appear to claim anything, her available certified sales do. MTV and many other reliable sources including CNN have a history of publishing inflated figures, that's nothing new. Thriller may be the biggest selling album of all time; however, that doesn't mean Jackson's other albums have sold in similar numbers.


 * As for the flaw you supposedly see, had you looked at everything I told you to look at carefully and patiently, you probably would not have come back and called the methodology invented with no validity. That alone tells me that this is going to be just another futile and unproductive discussion.--Harout72 (talk) 04:09, 16 August 2014 (UTC)

Harout, you haven't paid attention. If you go to the RIAA website you'll see that the initial fee is just to kick off the process of certification, what then follows is the expense of employing an RIAA staff member to travel to audit. That expense won't be peanuts. Small labels, or those outside the RIAA system are less likely to participate.

In short, by linking certified units to total sales and setting a series of arbitrary benchmarks, you exclude valid performers. The certified audits are simply nice to have when you get around to it and do not have a bearing on total sales. Are you creating this benchmark ( 20% and up depending on the year ) to exclude artists you don't prefer ? That's certainly the way it looks.

Diana Ross as an example, appears to have 12.5% of her total sales certified, Why is that not acceptable ? Surely each record company has its own internal policies about when it applies for an audit, you don't get to decide. You can't apply your figure and assume because you made it up that it means the artist didn't make sales ( this is ridiculous and I'm possibly talking to a child here as anyone with any knowledge knows what a giant Diana Ross was ). Conversely you have grossly underestimated Michael Jackson who I've proven has reported total sales anywhere between 500 and 750 million !! Are you under-reporting due to his low certified figure ? Is your low total sale figure designed to ensure he meets the cut-off, seeing as on 750 million he comes in at 22% and below the cut-off considering those sales were mostly in the 1980's ? I think so.

What you are doing is fiddling the figures and arbitrarily excluding valid performers when it suits you. It just so happens your methodology impacts Motown ( but likely others like James Brown as well ). It looks like you have made this conscious decision to have a clear bias against Motown. Your list should be suspended and not put out there purporting to be fact. What you are doing is an abuse pure and simple. You need to start again and do the job properly.

I'll help you out, here is a better threshold, ensuring everyone is grabbed, you can still rank within sections based on certified units:-

''To be on this list, artists who began charting: before 1975 are required to have their available claimed figures supported by 4.9% in certified units. between 1975–1990 are required to have their available claimed figures supported by 5-14.99% in certified units. (That is 0.666% for each additional year after 1975); between 1990–2000 are required to have their available claimed figures supported by 15-44.99% in certified units. (That is 2.99% for each additional year after 1990); between 2000-present are required to have their available claimed figures supported by 45-59% in certified units. (That is 1% for each additional year after 2000)''

This will then include all those with recording companies with differing audit policies, but exclude those just making stuff up. Soundscan can also be used to check the claimed figures.''--122.57.174.252 (talk) 15:35, 16 August 2014 (UTC)


 * You have not proven that Michael Jackson has sold 750 million records. In fact, the very source you have provided above at the top of this discussion, says that the 750 million is inflated. As for the 515 million claimed by an independent researcher in that the same source, there is no way to verify his claims as the amount of the Gold and Platinum awards Jackson has immediately disagrees with his claims and/or with his suggestions that Jackson had sold anywhere near 400 million before his death.


 * As for the the required percentages of the list, they are based on two main factors. 1) What portion of the global sales each market covers. 2) Since what year the same markets have been certifying records. Suggesting such low threshold as you have above to simply allow artists into the list, who in your opinion have sold as much as you think, is not the way this list is being operated. And you're not talking to a child, you're simply talking to someone who has enough knowledge about how record companies use inflated sales figures to promote their artists' materials.--Harout72 (talk) 16:48, 16 August 2014 (UTC)

It appears you are ' whiting ' your list up. You have 95 names listed of which 17 people or 18% of the total appear to be Black. This is a disproportionately low percentage of the total number of successful black artists in entertainment. I think this is premeditated on your part, you are purging Blacks. In defense you'll likely point to Whites being excluded too, but I think you've decided to allow some collateral damage in your quest.

With regard Michael Jackson, the highest selling recording artist of all time, your links with regard him simply repeat the same information from the same newswire, one including the Dhaka Tribune, that hotbed of journalistic excellence ( sarcasm ). That's right, your source is Bangladesh while you dismiss The New Yorker and MTV.

Your comments regarding global proportion of record sales and when certification began are nonsensical. All you are interested in surely is the gross tally of how many units have been sold. Now what is true and we likely agree on, is that to make the list the artist must be big in the USA as anything else is simply minor. But what you shouldn't be doing is instituting such an egregious bias which favours largely White acts. This site is meant to be factual, I've got better sources than you, so you should include them.

I used your method to show how you could improve. Personally I think you should dispense with your threshold limits and only use RIAA certified sales as a rank to separate ties. Alternatively you could rename the article " best selling RIAA certified music artists ' as that would be accurate. As it is, what you have produced is disgraceful and an abuse of process.

Wikipedia numbers should line up. So a wiki page on Jackson, or Diana Ross should have the same numbers as your list. It is after all, an encyclopaedia. Currently one article contradicts the other. The solution is to delete or suspend your article as it is the outlier and conflicts with the other robustly researched work. --122.57.174.252 (talk) 07:42, 17 August 2014 (UTC)

@talk:122.57.174.252

Couldn't agree with you more, and only for the fact that my life is very busy at this time, I would be on here saying the same things in more detail.

There is a bias with various Wiki editors ...especially when it comes to MJ and the likes. Also, sources from various Web sites often used and accepted for information on figures regarding other artists, are strangely not good enough when used to post information on figures for Michael Jackson. On the other hand, sources are being used AND accepted for sales claims for some other artists that, after all is said and done, are still unfounded when push comes to shove and / or no other genuine information from past or present, to indicate / collaborate the claims. For example of the opposite - It has been stated many times going back years, that MJ is the biggest selling artist ever - has also been officially awarded for being the FIRST artist to sell 100 million records outside of the USA, and so fourth ...and this is all going back years; they can even be viewed on YouTube, word for word, and all from the big music award ceremonies which are held by the worlds most recognized musical establishments on an annual basis.

I am referencing MJ here because he appears to be a poster-boy for Wiki bias right across many of his various pages; either due to editors and / or whining posters who don't agree on positive MJ-related information in any given article. There are quite a few who notice this and unfortunately, are too busy to even begin tackling the bias / in-correct / unfounded information....and on and on and on.

One day, however, a few may start to do just that until some kind of compromise / genuine balance at least, is reached regarding all the one-sided BS going on with Wiki. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.42.67.216 (talk) 04:13, 4 September 2014 (UTC)

Rihanna
I found a source that claims that Rihanna has sold 183 million records (37 million albums and 146 millions singles). 121.1/183 = 66.1% of certified sales. Is 66% of certified sales enough or she will need a higher percent?
 * http://investors.livenationentertainment.com/news-center/news-center-details/2012/Rihanna-Diamonds-World-Tour-Announces-European-Tour-Dates/default.aspx — Preceding unsigned comment added by Rudeby88 (talk • contribs) 03:17, 7 September 2014 (UTC)
 * Hi Rdeby88, Rihanna needs to be supported by 76.75% of certified sales, since she began charting from 2005. So the above claim cannot be accepted. — Indian: BIO  · [ ChitChat  ] 06:49, 7 September 2014 (UTC)

The Police with 75m-records
Hi Harout and also the other. How are you guys. I need your help to verify again the total of certification sales of this band.

Because, I've found a source from Qatar Tribune and written by Gary Graff, inside it is stated The Police has sold 75m-records (http://www.qatar-tribune.com/viewnews.aspx?n=6F869480-C7F7-4828-943D-A8FA0A0CC793&d=20140809)

What do you think? can we put them to the list and give the title to them for being one of the best-selling of all time?. thanks Politsi (talk) 11:19, 10 September 2014 (UTC)
 * I added The Police to the list. We may have to replace that source though later with something better.--Harout72 (talk) 21:26, 10 September 2014 (UTC)

Of course Harout, who could handle the source of all artists in this list better than me?. at least The band already become a part of this prestigious list. Politsi (talk) 05:00, 11 September 2014 (UTC)

katy perry
how come she has 98 millions certificated unites and she is in the 92 claimed sales ???????????????

she should be higher maybe like over 128 million claimed sales >>

right ?>

77.44.189.240 (talk) 09:52, 17 September 2014 (UTC)
 * Please find any 100m-sales or more claim for her from any Official Newspaper. Bring it here and we will considering it. Politsi (talk) 11:13, 18 September 2014 (UTC)

The Monkees with 75m-records
Harout, is there any posibility for The Monkees entering the list with 75m-records? How many of their certification sales so far. I need your advice. thanks Politsi (talk) 12:04, 18 September 2014 (UTC)
 * Well, based on their 24.7 million certified units they couldn't have sold more than 50 million records.--Harout72 (talk) 02:37, 19 September 2014 (UTC)

Eminem's records sales
Harout, need your advice. Please look at this source from The Standard (Kenya) http://www.standardmedia.co.ke/entertainment/thenairobian/article/2000134572/rapper-eminem-s-rap-god-breaks-guinness-world-record-for-having-most-words-in-hit-record

inside, it is stated about Eminem sold 115m-albums and singles in US and 40m-worldwide.

What do you think? what is that mean? Eminem sold 115m or he's sold 155m-combined?.

Need your advice. thanks Politsi (talk) 09:06, 25 September 2014 (UTC)
 * The 155 million (115 million for U.S. and 40 million for the rest of the world) in sales seems just about right based on his available certified sales. And the source is reliable, maybe not the best, but doable for now. I implemented it.--Harout72 (talk) 15:07, 25 September 2014 (UTC)

Garth Brooks's 190m-records claim
Harout, I know we've been discussing about this topic, But I bring it back because now there's so many very prestigious source also claim the same amount of that brooks's sales (190m-records) such as:

Chicago Tribune/http://www.chicagotribune.com/entertainment/music/chi-garth-brooks-press-conference-20140904-column.html

The Guardian/http://www.theguardian.com/music/2014/sep/05/garth-brooks-launches-his-own-digital-music-store

The Belfast Telegraph/http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/entertainment/garth-almighty-a-profile-of-the-country-music-legend-30425543.html

And brooks already came close to 150m in sales certification, then we should consider that claim someday.

What do you think Harout? and I also need some advice and opinion from other editor. thanks Politsi (talk) 04:57, 26 September 2014 (UTC)
 * Brooks is still ok with his 150 million claimed sales as his certified sales are 141.8 million so far. The 150 million seems to be more logical for him at the moment than the 190 million as he's sold most of his records in the U.S. and another good portion in Canada. Both these markets have had certification-system since 1989 when Brooks began charting, so we're not missing anything as far as his certified sales go. And based on his certified sales, the 190 million seems quite inflated. But once he passes the 150 million mark with his certified sales, I'll update his claimed sales using one of the sources above.--Harout72 (talk) 13:09, 26 September 2014 (UTC)

New artists
i found new sources saying these artists have sold the most. hope we reconsider them:

http://www.rcarecords.com/news/pnk-re-signs-rca-records-multi-year-deal P!nk at 106 million

http://www.theoaklandpress.com/arts-and-entertainment/20140612/local-roots-fortify-bruno-mars-musical-director Bruno Mars at 79 million

http://www.forbes.com/sites/natalierobehmed/2013/10/21/rapper-flo-rida-endorses-debt-riddled-beamz-players/ Flo Rida at 75 million

http://www.fashionnstyle.com/articles/18731/20140422/janet-jackson-celebrity-style-evolution.htm and http://www.therichest.com/rich-list/nation/10-most-popular-female-soloists-of-all-time/2/ Janet Jackson at 140 million

http://richlistgroup.com/r-kelly/ and http://www.courier-journal.com/story/entertainment/music/2014/03/31/r-kelly-louisville/7128917/ R. Kelly at 100 million — Preceding unsigned comment added by Joshay.16 (talk • contribs) 06:37, 3 October 2014 (UTC)

Michael Bolton with 75m-records
Harout, please don't angry with my question over and over again. I didn't mean to make this list became full with so many artists which perhaps could reduce the quality of the list, But I'm not.

As we all know, many music legend with a big name in music industry in fact doesn't had their name written at the list with of course the certification sales reason, but if we make this list very complete. I think that kind of problem would doesn't really matter.

Therefore, I bring back Michael Bolton again with 75m-records claim from The Korea Herald news, written by one of their staff (Lee Hyun-jeong)/http://www.koreaherald.com/view.php?ud=20140921000156

Despite several sources still stuck his records sales at 60 million. But again Harout, Bolton has enough certification sales to reach that claim.

so why we're not let him became one the best-selling artists in history? and the reliable source for that claim already available.

Need your advice. thanks Politsi (talk) 11:00, 3 October 2014 (UTC)
 * His certified sales are still stuck at 37.1 million, which suggests that the 75 million claim is high, and the 60 million claim is more logical such as this based on his available certified sales. So, in the future, if Bolton's certified sales pass the 45 million mark, we can consider putting him up with the 75 million claim.--Harout72 (talk) 17:06, 3 October 2014 (UTC)

table design
The notes in the units column of the tables don't display properly. I tried taking out the fixed-width styles, but that didn't help. Fuddle (talk) 21:04, 3 October 2014 (UTC)
 * They look quite proper on my screen. If it displays overlapped, that could be because of the monitor size.--Harout72 (talk) 21:46, 3 October 2014 (UTC)

Sales
I've always wondered how this list has been created...Britney Spears has sold 100 million ALBUMS, Taylor Swift not (20 million). How can they be in the same category? The same with Rihanna. There should be a list for "album sales" and another one for "singles sales". A lot of artists shouldn't be on this page! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 93.44.223.187 (talk) 10:08, 4 October 2014 (UTC)
 * Read above. It's all explained in the above boxes. — Indian: BIO  · [ ChitChat  ] 10:29, 4 October 2014 (UTC)

Adele's records sales
Harout, if you have much time. Need your help to find out her certification sales total and how far her certification sales would claim the millions sales.

Because i think, it seems she could sold around 75m-80m records despite still released only two studio albums and more than 10 singles.

If it possible, I will find the reliable source to support it. Need your help, thanks Politsi (talk) 06:08, 4 October 2014 (UTC)
 * You're right, Adele's certified sales are already 60.9 million, which can support claimed figures of up to 78 million, as she needs her sales claims supported by 77.8% certified sales.--Harout72 (talk) 16:03, 4 October 2014 (UTC)
 * Harout, I think Adele WILL NEVER enter this list, eventhough her certification sales reach 100m. The editor in her own WikiBio always reverting my edit regarding her sales, although the source I provide reliable enough. I'm trying to re-new her Wiki Bio with some estimation sales to encourage the media releasing her claim sales but the editor at there, always reverting my edit. I will let her like Eric Clapton, the quality of this list will never down only because No Adele in here.Politsi (talk) 02:11, 8 October 2014 (UTC)

Kiss to 80 million claim
Harout, I curious because this band certification sales less than 27m but their claim sales at the 100 million. It's too much i think, especially when I realize that another old band such as The Doors has a better certification sales but their claim lower than Kiss.

I need your advice, in Kiss's 27m-certification, how much of their albums certification only? because we could kick them to the 80m-list with 80m-albums claim by this source (http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/blogsburger/50333955-53/thayer-kiss-band-simmons.html.csp) or this source (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/entertainment/8305250.stm)

There's several 80m-records claim for Kiss but the source already out of dated. So then, What do you think?

thanks. Politsi (talk) 01:18, 13 October 2014 (UTC)
 * The 80 million would be more logical than the current 100 million as their certified sales are really low. How old are the sources that claim 80 million records? I'm hesitant about using the sources that claim albums only because Kiss have total of 26.9 million certified units, and 3.2 million units (or 12%) of that is generated by videos and another 2.1 million units (or 8%) by singles. So they're not just album based band.--Harout72 (talk) 02:32, 13 October 2014 (UTC)

Harout, the only reliable source for Kiss's 80m-records claim sales is from the 2002 USA Today edition (http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/community/chat/2002-02-01-gsimmons.htm) but an article from 12 years ago, is not good for the list.

I've a better idea, what if we kick them to the 75m-records list since their certification is too poor to be claim as the 100m-sales.

Please look at this source from the 2007 The Age Australia edition (http://www.theage.com.au/news/tv--radio/gene-simmons-shows-his-family-jewels/2007/12/10/1197135364624.html) inside, it was said that Kiss ONLY sold 75m-records.

I think we can use that source at least for while until i got a newer source, and I believe there's no significant sales records of KISS after 2007.

But, if you still think that 75m-records claim is too low for them, we can use 90m-records claim from the same newspaper (http://www.theage.com.au/news/music/kiss-to-play-grand-prix/2007/11/14/1194766719128.html)

but I PREFER to use the 75m-records claim because it's more logical and the source more new (a month later) than the source which claim 90m-records.

What do you think Harout? thanks. Politsi (talk) 03:55, 13 October 2014 (UTC)


 * The claim of 75 million records is better than 80 million. Since they haven't had any serious number of certifications in the recent years, the source from 2007 will do fine.--Harout72 (talk) 04:54, 13 October 2014 (UTC)

Okay then, I implemented it. Politsi (talk) 05:22, 13 October 2014 (UTC)

The Who's Biography
I make a note on their own biography same as all artists in this list, having a title as one of the best-selling artists of all time. But well, not all artists happy to have a title like that.

The editor at band (The Who) biography with name rejected that title and revert my edit and I read the editor's comment in that band bio talk page.

''I'm going to continue my comments from the Peer Review here.

having sold more than 100 million records: as of? I think Snuggums asked the same question, and I addressed it, however if nobody wants it in there it can be removed. Ritchie333 (talk)''

Well, then if that band think that they don't sell as much as we mention here. I think we should erase that band's name from this list. I feel we look ridiculous maintaining their name in this list while in their own Bio, their reject that citation. Politsi (talk) 02:18, 14 October 2014 (UTC)

Harout, if you there and have much time. I really need your advice regarding about finding above. Thanks Politsi (talk) 04:34, 14 October 2014 (UTC)

Taylor Swift's new claim to 110m records
Harout, I really need your advice. Although this source come from a newspaper/The Herald (Rock Hill), but if we read the source/http://www.heraldonline.com/2014/10/13/6414811_taylor-swift-unlocks-out-of-the.html

It seems un-reliable since the contain come from PRNewswire.

Well, Inside Swift have a new claim sales (30m-albums and 80m-singles) but I'm hesitate to use that source.

Need your advice. thanks Politsi (talk) 08:11, 16 October 2014 (UTC)
 * Right, it's not really a source we'd want to use, we'll have to have for a better source.--Harout72 (talk) 13:57, 16 October 2014 (UTC)

Harout, how about this source (http://www.theglobeandmail.com/globe-investor/news-sources/?mid=cnw.20141016.C2956) what do you think?. well, I think we should find a new claim source for her since her certification nearly 100m-sales. We don't want her claim look like Katy Perry's right?. Please inform me, if you agree I will replace it and put her with the new claim sales. thanks Politsi (talk) 13:58, 19 October 2014 (UTC)


 * Hi Politsi, I'm afraid this link from Globe and Mail is again another case of the press release from her record company. It says so below. — Indian: BIO  [ ChitChat  ] 14:54, 19 October 2014 (UTC)

Hi 2, Well that's why I ask you guys first because I still hesitate to use that source. Thanks for your respond. Politsi (talk) 01:40, 20 October 2014 (UTC)

Harout and Indian Bio, this source come from The Berkshire Eagle/http://www.berkshireeagle.com/entertainment/ci_26763679/taylor-swift-releasing-new-track-today-itunes and looks different than all previous source which stated by her record company and PR Newswire. The statement in that article from The Associated Press. I think we can use it for while, especially her certification has pass 100m, I will implemented it but if you guys still think that source un-reliable. Just revert it, thanks Politsi (talk) 07:24, 22 October 2014 (UTC)

Eminem's claim sales source
Harout, yesterday I was checking the source for Eminem's claim sales just to make sure it's still working on. But, I've found it miss and doesn't exist anymore. I've been trying to find another reliable source to replace the old source (from Standard Kenya), but i failed and it seems the only source for Eminem's 155m-claim still come from Standard Kenya.

Need your help to checking it again and make sure it still exist, we must verify all source in the list are available to see. Thanks Politsi (talk) 07:57, 29 October 2014 (UTC)
 * The archived version of that source is still available. I updated it.--Harout72 (talk) 13:20, 29 October 2014 (UTC)

The RIAA Clumsy?
Zeppelin and Elvis have sold a ton since their last updates in the database, emphasis on Zeppelin. Both have had recent albums chart, Zeppelin I Deluxe entering the top 10-20 on Billboard, with Zeppelin IV doing exponentially well. All the remasters were best sellers on Amazon as well, the first three holding the top three spots before they were even released. Is there anyway to pull updated information? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2605:6000:1018:4055:44A3:55C9:19C5:9665 (talk) 22:54, 29 October 2014 (UTC)

Beyonce with 180m-records???
Wait a minute, who the h3ll post that in here?. Harout, need your help. Please give the editor who posted that silly thing with a fire warning. You and me especially are work together to protect this list from any vandalism.

But... if Beyonce certification sales has pass 83m... I think we should bring her to the 100m-list with this source (http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2013-12-14/entertainment/chi-beyonce-album-review-beyonce-self-titled-album-reviewed-20131214_1_album-review-bill-werde-delivery)

What do you think Harout?. thanks Politsi (talk) 06:43, 24 October 2014 (UTC)
 * Don't worry I reverted it. — Indian: BIO  [ ChitChat  ] 06:52, 24 October 2014 (UTC)
 * @Politsi: We can use the source that states 100 million records once she is at 75.7 million certified units. But it might take a long time before she gets to that point, maybe a year or two.--Harout72 (talk) 14:04, 24 October 2014 (UTC)

There are artists on the list with less than 50 million certified units while listed as having sold more than 100 million records. She surpassed 75 million records in 2008 with the release of I Am... Sasha Fierce, where multiple sources, including Sony, listed her as having sold 118 million records in 2010 after the release of the I Am... World Tour DVD.1, 2, 3. Note that 118 million does not include certifications from her fourth or fifth album respectively. Also note her discography certifications have not be recertified since the release of I Am... Sasha Fierce in 2008.


 * 1) You need to sign your posts. 2) All those artists that are listed as having sold 100 million records with less than 50 million in certified sales, have begun charting decades earlier than Beyonce. You need to read the lead of the list. And for detailed requirements of the certified sales, you need to read the second yellow box from the top on this talk page. That said, Beyonce has begun charting in 2002 as a solo artist, therefore, she's required to have her claimed figures supported by 75.7% certified sales (or 89.3 million certified units for a claim as high as 118 million). 3) Your sources include inflated figures which her record company uses for promotional purposes.--Harout72 (talk) 13:38, 30 October 2014 (UTC)

Beyonce's Certification as of October 30 2014.
Upon reviewing Beyonce's available certification, it has been brought to my attention that her certifications for most countries including the USA and Australia have not been updated since 2011, after and for some before the release of 4. Seeing that she needs 75.7 million cetified units to be placed in the 100 million section and is currently at 60.3 million in certified units, I have been wondering if you can kindly review her certifications to at least ensure that they are updated. By the way, how many certified units does Alicia Keys need before she can be placed in at least the 75 million section.

Regards(Anonymous) 190.80.8.8 (talk) 16:37, 30 October 2014 (UTC)
 * Actually, you're wrong. Beyonce's certified sales and the certified sales of all others are constantly updated. See this complied document which lists all Beyonce's available worldwide certified sales. As for Alicia Keys, her claimed sales should be supported by 75.3% certified sales. Her certified sales are currently standing at 39.2 million. With that much certified sales available, Alicia Keys can't even be listed with 75 million claim. She'd need 56.4 million certified units.--Harout72 (talk) 17:00, 30 October 2014 (UTC)

There is something VERY wrong with that document that is suppose to be accurate. For example, it states that Crazy in Love only sold 600,000 in the USA, whereas it is stated to have sold around 2 million. In fact, the whole USA sales for singles is ONLY on digital, when she started out when physical sales were very strong. Also, she is the second most certificated artists when it comes to single sales in the USA - after Elvis. It doesn't add up. All her certificated USA singles from the RIAA website amount to about 26 million, not 17. That was just a quick glance at the USA's singles. So no, they are not updated and they are actually logically wrong. Her sales need to be reevaluated and properly constructed, because it really doesn't seem like they are... at all. 31.205.119.172 (talk) 01:31, 3 November 2014 (UTC)
 * The document is 100% accurate. I'm not sure where you're getting the 2 million units for "Crazy in Love". The RIAA so far has only one Gold certification for Digital format, which was certified in 2004 for sales of 100,000 units (see the levels for Digital until September 7, 2006). The other Gold certification for that single is for the Mastertone format for sales of 500,000 units. So the total for that is only 600,000 units. If the Digital-format of that song has sold more by now, the RIAA has yet to certify it. Also, in the USA, Beyonce doesn't have any singles certified with Physical formats, they're all Digital. Your statement above: All her certificated USA singles from the RIAA website amount to about 26 million, not 17, tells me that you're either not familiar with the levels Gold/Platinum awards in USA represent, or you're double counting the awards. Make sure that you count the highest awards for each single/album/video ONLY once.--Harout72 (talk) 03:11, 3 November 2014 (UTC)

Adele
Where is Adele? Someone posted on another page that she has certificated 60 odd million, yet she isn't on the list? Are we just ignoring the system? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 31.205.119.172 (talk) 02:04, 3 November 2014 (UTC)
 * Not only Adele, but Eric Clapton should be here, in the list. But the thing is, the claim sales should be accurate with their amount of certification sales total and the source provide for the claim must be Reliable (came from a regarded official Newspaper). Let the time will tell Politsi (talk) 09:50, 5 November 2014 (UTC)

katy perry
it's really weird...... if her certificated unit's are 99.1 M this would support a 128 million claimed sales right????

I don't have a source, but even without one maybe you should encourage the newspapers and media to start putting the claimed sale (120-128) from now and on .... right ??????? it makes it unfair for her ....

I don't wanna annoy you with my talk, but as a wiki admirer I just like to anticipate

love ... peace

77.44.186.75 (talk) 19:32, 1 November 2014 (UTC)
 * If you don't have a source for that claim, then push yourself hard to find the reliable source for her suitable claim. Me and several editors for the list, work very hard to maintain the quality of the list, please make yourself usefull by finding it. Politsi (talk) 09:53, 5 November 2014 (UTC)

Shania Twain to 85m-records claim
Harout, her claim sales on the list still stuck at 80m-albums. I will raise her claim sales to 85m-records by using the source from Princeton Packet (http://www.centraljersey.com/articles/2014/11/07/hillsborough_beacon/news/doc545d12f8987e9007603510.txt).

I hope my idea is reliable. Need your advice. thanks Politsi (talk) 07:32, 11 November 2014 (UTC)
 * Seems reliable.--Harout72 (talk) 14:25, 11 November 2014 (UTC)

Puff Daddy
Harout, if you have a really big times. I need your help for Sean Combs's certification sales total, because I've found some source (not so reliable although) which said him has sold 100m-records and 75m-records.

If his certification sales could cover at least 75m-records, I will update his own wikiBio to encourage the news media to release his claim sales.

(This was happens to Jay-Z previously. You know, I believe The Punch and London Evening Standard will never said Jay-Z sold 75m-records if I dont updating his wikiBio..)

For example, this source already said him have sold 75m-albums (but we need a "records claim")/http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/entertainment/music/music-news/p-diddy-to-play-free-gig-1065640 What do you think?. thanks Politsi (talk) 03:22, 13 November 2014 (UTC)
 * His certified sales stand at 27.3 million. It doesn't even look like he could have sold 40 million records worldwide based on that.--Harout72 (talk) 15:40, 13 November 2014 (UTC)

Christina Aguilera
Hello. I am just wondering what number of certified units would be needed for Christina Aguilera to support a 100 million claim. If you could inform me of her certified units that would be greatly appriciated. Thanks. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.69.183.116 (talk) 04:16, 9 November 2014 (UTC)
 * Aguilera has begun charting in 1999, therefore, she needs her claimed figures supported by 72% certified sales. That is 72 million certified units she'd need for 100 million claim. Her certified sales are still currently 47.4 million units.--Harout72 (talk) 23:38, 10 November 2014 (UTC)

Harout, is it possible for her to get into the list with 75m-records claim? because I will find it if she has a change. Thanks Politsi (talk) 02:57, 12 November 2014 (UTC)


 * Well, she'd need 54 million certified units for a claim as high as 75 million records. So for that, she still needs to collect another 6.6 million certified units, which is possible if RIAA re-certifies some of her older singles. If you find a reliable source claiming 75 million, post it here, so we can use it once she reaches her required amount of certified sales.--Harout72 (talk) 03:35, 12 November 2014 (UTC)

Question! How come she needs to meet at least 75% certified sales for her claimed sales record? Being in the industry for 15 years, isn't she supposed to have just 20-30% certified records? What is the basis to classify whether an artist/s is old or new? Is it the number of years they have been charting, or the years they started releasing records? Are there other criterion? Hope you can clarify, because some artists deserve to be on the list but this unclear criteria prevents the from being eligible. Thanks.
 * First of all you should sign your posts by typing four tildes ( ~ ). Now if you would kindly look at the top of the page, there is a detailed explanation of how the certification and claimed sales are linked. As Harout said above, Aguilera has begun charting in 1999, therefore, she needs her claimed figures supported by 72% certified sales. — Indian: BIO  [ ChitChat  ] 05:59, 14 November 2014 (UTC)

Johnny Hallyday to 80m-list
Harout, I need your advise and your permission too. I've seen that this French artist certification sales total less than 24m. And put him at 100m-list sometimes makes me feel weird.

I found a source from The Guardian 2004 edition (http://www.theguardian.com/world/2004/aug/03/france.arts1) inside it's stated that Hallyday only sold 80m-records.

Since he retired at 2007, I think a claim sales source from 2004 for him is still reliable.

I need your advise, if you agree. I will kick him from the 100m-list to 80m-list. Thanks Politsi (talk) 04:24, 15 November 2014 (UTC)
 * Although, he has had almost 4 million units certified between 2004 and now, it's clear that his overall records sales cannot be more than 80 million based on his total available certified sales (23.8 million). I think we'd be safe to move him down on the list.--Harout72 (talk) 07:05, 15 November 2014 (UTC)

Okay then, I'll put Hallyday to the 80m-list. Politsi (talk) 08:45, 15 November 2014 (UTC)

Britney Spears
Britney sold most than 105 million of albuns and 95 million of singles! She has just 100 million on list.If rihanna,taylor,lady gaga and katy perry have on list ALBUNS and SINGLES,Britney will have ALBUNS AND SINGLES on list.!!!!!!!!! — Preceding unsigned comment added by MoreMoneyGomes (talk • contribs) 22:49, 7 November 2014 (UTC)
 * Doc please? — Indian: BIO  [ ChitChat  ] 05:10, 8 November 2014 (UTC)
 * I wish I could help, I can't understand what he's written or what he's asking.--Harout72 (talk) 05:19, 8 November 2014 (UTC)
 * I think that what he's written means that this page counts record sales (albums and singles). In this page, Britney Spears appears to claim 100 million record sales, but in fact Spears claims 100 million albums without counting singles. Counting singles, Spears claims almost 200 million records. Chaves1204 (talk) 19:51, 21 November 2014 (UTC)

The source used on the list for 100 million uses the term records, which stands for albums, singles, videos, not just albums. And based on Spears' available total certified sales of 76.7 million (52.2 million certified albums, 22.4 million certified singles, 2.1 million certified videos), the 100 million claims is just about right, even considering that some of her singles need to be re-certified in the U.S.--Harout72 (talk) 21:06, 21 November 2014 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 25 November 2014
Are you kidding? taylor swift ever sold 50 millions & rihannah is like millions sold. please change, be real no fake.

186.79.7.209 (talk) 09:46, 25 November 2014 (UTC)


 * Red information icon with gradient background.svg Not done: You might want to read these 10 discussions about Taylor Swift and these 16 about Rihanna for the reasons why.

Please also cite reliable sources to back up your request, without which no information should be added to, or changed in, any article. - Arjayay (talk) 10:03, 25 November 2014 (UTC)
 * If, after reading these, you still want to suggest a change, please request this in the form "Please replace XXX with YYY" or "Please add ZZZ between PPP and QQQ".

Beyonce's new total
Beyonce's proclaimed sales of 75 million are from a source pre-fifth studio album. Since the release of 'Beyonce', it has sold 5 million copies world wide, and the single 'drunk in love' has sold a further 3 million copies, plus other single releases 'xo', 'partition' and 'pretty hurts', having sold close to 1 million between them, meaning beyonce has sold close to 85 million records to date when this is added on to the previous 75. Plus, according to her wikipedia page, with a source to back it up, beyonce has sold 140 million records as a solo singer, and a further 60 million with destinys child.
 * Adding Timestamp. — Indian: BIO  [ ChitChat  ] 12:33, 25 November 2014 (UTC)

Adele ... again
Certificated 60.1 million, thus can support a claim of 78 million. Therefore, why is she not on the list? 31.205.119.172 (talk) 19:51, 26 November 2014 (UTC)
 * Actually, Adele's certified sales are 60.9 million, and yes that much certified sales can support 78 million sales claim as she's begun charting in 2008. Are there reliable sources claiming that she's sold 78 million records? Let me know if there is one, we'll put her up on the list.--Harout72 (talk) 00:15, 27 November 2014 (UTC)

Beyonce
75% of 80 million is 60 million. Beyonce has 60.3 certified units according to this page, so she can be moved to 80 million section (since numerous sources claim she has sold over 118 or 140 million). Also this page is in conflict with other Wikipedia articles. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beyonc%C3%A9_discography here it's stated that she has sold over 140 million records. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beyonc%C3%A9 while here it's said that she and Jay Z have sold a total of 300 million records. They're both in 75 million section and 75 + 75 is not 300. I think this should be corrected. Either all articles should state 140 or 75 or 80. Personally, I believe that since RIAA has named her top certified artist of 2000s she should have more than 60.3 million certified units. Thank you.

BeKay77 (talk) 19:29, 30 November 2014 (UTC)
 * When you find a reliable source that claims 80 million records for Beyonce, let us know, so we can move her one section higher as soon as her certified sales pass at least the 65 million mark. Until then her 75 million claim seems just about right based on her currently available certified sales. By the way, this source posted at Beyoncé discography, which is supposedly there to support the 140 million that you're speaking of, doesn't have any sales figures in it. On her main page, however, the sales figure is the same as here for her solo career.--Harout72 (talk) 20:07, 30 November 2014 (UTC)

The Supremes with 80m-records
Harout, I need your help regarding with this legendary girl group. How many exactly their certification sales total? is it possible for them to reach 80m-claim?

we can use this source (http://www.smh.com.au/entertainment/music/rihanna-hits-back-at-tlc-with-more-topless-pictures-20140604-zrw3m.html)

Need your advise. Thanks Politsi (talk) 09:38, 1 December 2014 (UTC)
 * I see very few certifications for The Supremes. From the U.S. just a Platinum Video for 100,000 units, from the U.K. I see 220,000 certified units. While they have charted mainly between 1962 and 1976, they still should have had a lot more of their albums/singles certified had they really sold anywhere close to 80 million.--Harout72 (talk) 14:42, 1 December 2014 (UTC)
 * @Harout They had several more certifications under the name of Diana Ross and the Supremes in the US still not sure if it would be enough for the inclusion --Uncleangelo (talk) 17:43, 1 December 2014 (UTC)
 * Right, I missed those, that adds additional 2.5 million units. So the total is 2.6 million from the U.S. There are also some certifications listed under Dianna Ross and The Supremes with The Temptations, TCB (Gold=500,000 units), Diana Ross & The Supremes Join The Temptations (Gold=500,000 units) and I'm Gonna Me You Love Me (Platinum=1,000,000), total of 2,000,000 units. But those should not be counted as we never include certifications with more than two lead artists. So all in all, not much changes.--Harout72 (talk) 16:43, 1 December 2014 (UTC)

Lady Gaga
As of November 20, 2014, this source (http://www.chroniclelive.co.uk/whats-on/music-nightlife-news/lady-gaga-chart-career-prepares-8140790) puts Lady Gaga at 114 million records worldwide. I'm not sure what Gaga's highest claim could be, but this is lower than the other amount of 157 million Billboard claims. Thanks! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.69.183.116 (talk) 22:06, 2 December 2014 (UTC)
 * Her certifications (which is grossly under) are still not on par to put her with that claim. — Indian: BIO  [ ChitChat  ] 05:46, 3 December 2014 (UTC)

Perry Como over 100 million records
I am no expert at all, but the book "Perry Como: A Biography and Complete Career Record" say Perry Como sold over 100 million records. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 32GMGU (talk • contribs) 00:48, 5 December 2014 (UTC)
 * It is very true that he sold over 100 million records, just like Bing Crosby sold 600 million - 900 million, they had mostly sold before the foundation of RIAA. When someone had checked last time, Como's sales figure was about 50 million, and certified sales were around 6 million, although we require at least 20% in certified units.  Occult Zone  (Talk • Contributions • Log) 02:09, 5 December 2014 (UTC)
 * Perry Como has begun charting as a solo artist in 1955, and has released albums until mid 1970s, while RIAA has instituted its Gold certification-award in 1958, therefore, most of the releases must have gotten certified, if at all reached certification-levels. Perry Como's U.S. certified sales are only 3 million units, that is terribly low to claim that he could have sold anywhere near the 100 million mark. We should've had at least some 20-30 million certified units coming from the U.S., had the 100 million claim been true. I also see some 2.9 million certified units coming from the U.K., but really nothing major. Sales claims are not necessarily true, those are figures tossed about for promotional reasons to make artists more attractive, oldest marketing tool by record companies.--Harout72 (talk) 03:40, 5 December 2014 (UTC)

What about Johnny Mathis?
His Wikipedia article claims 350 million record sales. HowardMorland (talk) 14:53, 6 December 2014 (UTC)

Interpreters
Hi all, the entry title is misleading: this list does not encompass all music artists but only interpreters. Take Timbaland as an example, who has two separate discographies, one as producer and one as interpreter (and note that he didn't compose all the songs). In this list, only Timbaland as interpreter would be listed, not as producer nor as composer (I'm not saying he would qualify, but even if he would not be listed. However, both producers and composers are music artists as well.) I realize that the current counting methods are focused on interpreters (the singers of a song) and not any other personel, however, that should be reflected in the title of the list.217.51.239.39 (talk) 01:40, 10 December 2014 (UTC)

I just found that the German version of this page talks about interpreters only: List of interpreters with the most sales worldwide. I just feel it's not ok to claim it's musicians and then talk only singers and instrumentalists. 77.12.200.18 (talk) 10:26, 10 December 2014 (UTC)

Guy Lombardo
Guy Lombardo should be on this list too, if anyone ever finds a good source for pre-1950s sales. Allmusic estimates his sales at 100-300 million. Kendall-K1 (talk) 17:24, 15 December 2014 (UTC)

Coldplay is missing
According to Wikipedia - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coldplay_discography (with multiple sources) - Coldplay sold at least 85 million certified units and thus should be part of the list. Unfortunately I have no clue how to change the article myself so I hope someone that actually has a clue how to do it reads this and changes it accordingly. Thanks — Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.120.159.54 (talk) 12:31, 22 December 2014 (UTC)
 * Coldplay are required to have their claimed figures supported by 75% certified sales. Their available certified sales at the moment are 50.6 million, which can support sales figures as high as 67.5 million. As for the sales claims at Coldplay discography, I see 80 million records stated there, but only one of the sources provided has sales figure for Coldplay, which is this, but it supports 55 million sales, not 80 million.--Harout72 (talk) 14:09, 22 December 2014 (UTC)

Harout, actually there is a reliable source to support Coldplay's 80m-records (http://tribune.com.pk/story/802800/coldplays-curtain-call-a-head-full-of-dreams/) but it's useless since their certification too low. Politsi (talk) 11:17, 25 December 2014 (UTC)
 * I'll keep that source in mind. They need 60 million in certified sales to be listed with 80 million claim. Once they're at 60 million, I'll put them up on the list.--Harout72 (talk) 17:34, 25 December 2014 (UTC)

Beyonce's certified sales.
Hi, I read on one of your discussions that stated Coldplay needs 60 million certified units to be placed in the 80 million bracket. I was wondering since Beyonce has 60.5 million certified units shouldn't she move to the 80 million bracket. Also, when will Jay Z move from the 75 million bracket as well, his certifications are well over 74 million. Thank you for your time. anonymous (190.80.8.9 (talk) 17:45, 5 January 2015 (UTC))
 * Is there a reliable source for Beyonce that states 80 million records? Jay-Z can be moved up on the list but I don't think there is a reliable source that claims anything higher for him than the current 75 million records.--Harout72 (talk) 18:17, 5 January 2015 (UTC)

Oh ok I understand, I have to find a reliable source that claims she sold that much. When I do I will inform you. Thank you for your time.(190.80.8.9 (talk) 10:20, 6 January 2015 (UTC))

Taylor Swift 175 million records claim?
Harout, today a news about her from New Straits Times really shocked me out. In that source (http://www.nst.com.my/node/67319), They said Swift has sold 45 million albums and 130 million digital single downloads.

Wow! such a huge claim for a new artist like her and especially this claim come from a reliable source.

Harout, need your advise. Is it possible for her to reach that claim, even with the release of her new album and singles?

Thanks.Politsi (talk) 09:18, 14 January 2015 (UTC)


 * Are we REALLY to count SINGLES as record sales? Impossible for the likes of The Beatles. In this context RECORD SALES historically (and certainly for every other artist on the list!) means ALBUM sales, so surely Swift should be at 45 million?! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 210.55.255.252 (talk) 12:11, 14 January 2015 (UTC)
 * Yes we count singles sales also and no, Taylor Swift has sold much much more than 45 million. — Indian: BIO  [ ChitChat  ] 12:33, 14 January 2015 (UTC)

@Politsi, the 175 million at the moment for Taylor Swift is quite inflated considering that her available certified sales are only 105.2 million (23 million albums, 81.9 million singles). Per the rules of this list, she needs her claims supported by 77.1% certified units, which would be 134.9 million certified units needed for claim as high as 175 million. I think it might take many months for Swift to get to that point.--Harout72 (talk) 14:25, 14 January 2015 (UTC)

Okay thanks, but Harout. Considering how huge the success of her new album (1989) and her song topped the chart worldwide, i think she can reach that claim within several months. What we should do is to keep an eye on it. Need your help of course. thanks Politsi (talk) 01:31, 15 January 2015 (UTC)

katy perry
I searched for over a month I couldn't find a reliable source to support her move to the 128 ( or less ) million claimed sales.

but it just bother me to see that her certificated units are 99.4 M and still in the lower column which is 91 M claimed { lower than her actual certificated sales )

can you do something about it ???????????

77.44.188.10 (talk) 21:54, 16 January 2015 (UTC)
 * No. — Indian: BIO  [ ChitChat  ] 03:28, 17 January 2015 (UTC)

Bon Jovi, 100 or 130 million?
Artists here appear to be listed by claimed, rather than certified sales. 100M was supposedly passed by Bon Jovi 10 years ago and, as noted in Forbes last year (http://www.forbes.com/sites/hughmcintyre/2014/07/21/bon-jovi-is-part-of-a-group-looking-to-buy-the-buffalo-bills/) Bon Jovi now claim 130 million sales, moving them into the next bracket. I query simply because the 120m plus number has been thrown around for Jovi for a number of years, it seems strange then that noone has moved them... — Preceding unsigned comment added by 210.55.255.252 (talk) 12:17, 14 January 2015 (UTC)
 * I have adjusted the figure to 130 million. I believe this is what it was originally set at on this page anyways. I have seen this figure cited far more and in more reliable, more widely-read sources including USA Today (which I have used...http://www.usatoday.com/story/life/music/2014/06/18/song-premiere-bon-jovi-judgment-day-from-new-jersey-reissue/10652465/), Forbes (http://www.forbes.com/sites/hughmcintyre/2014/07/21/bon-jovi-is-part-of-a-group-looking-to-buy-the-buffalo-bills/), and New York Daily News (http://www.nydailynews.com/entertainment/music-arts/bon-jovi-guitarist-richie-sambora-booted-band-reports-article-1.1435431), as opposed to the 100 million figure cited by the very local and more unreliable Atlantic City source.  Bon Jovi's available certifications represent 57.5% of the claimed figure of 130 million, which is well within the criteria (they only need 33.94%, having first charted in 1984). -- Abog (talk) 03:11, 21 January 2015 (UTC)


 * We don't update sales figures unless the available certified sales are really close to the currently listed sales figures. The lead of the list clearly informs editors/readers Note that this list uses claimed figures that are closer to artists' available certified sales. In other words, inflated claimed figures that will meet the required certified sales amount but are unrealistically high from available certified sales, will not be used. The 100 million records clearly seems more realistic based on Bon Jovi's available certified sales, and many reliable sources still report that including Boston Globe, Cleveland.com. Also, this list avoids using sources that use the term albums as all your sources do. Sources should use the term records, this is also stated in the lead of the list. Bon Jovi's available certified sales for albums are only 65 million. It's quite low for a claim as high as 130 million albums.--Harout72 (talk) 12:50, 21 January 2015 (UTC)


 * Well, I have seen the 130 million figure cited far more. The 100 million figure seemed totally out of sync with what I usually see claimed worldwide sales to be for this band which is why I made the change (a simple Google search of "bon jovi 130 million records" will show you the many sources claiming this figure), but I'm not going to get into an edit war over this. I also think you're splitting hairs, as most sources use the terms records and albums interchangeably...and I've actually found plenty which do cite "130 million records" anyways. I also think you're being totally hypocritical by showing that Dire Straits and Genesis have sold more records, especially given the huge disparity between claimed sales and certified sales. Do you really expect anyone to believe that these artists which have been largely inactive and irrelevant for the past two decades have sold 120-130 million albums worldwide when their actual certifications are only near 40 million, yet expect me to believe that Bon Jovi have sold less even though they have the much higher certifications (75 million) to back it up and continue to fill stadiums around the world? I know these artists are slightly older than Bon Jovi, but do you really believe they have sold more? I think it's more believable that Bon Jovi has sold 130 million albums given their enduring popularity throughout Europe, Asia, Africa, and Latin America and ability to fill stadiums in almost every country. Almost all other artists on here have significant gaps between claimed sales and certified sales which can likely be explained by the lack of data for many countries, under-certification, and so forth, characteristics which apply to Bon Jovi just as much as they do to Aerosmith, Queen, AC/DC and other similar artists with similar gaps (generally certifications being 55-60% of claimed sales). Abog (talk) 18:58, 21 January 2015 (UTC)

Bon Jovi may have sold some 10-15 million more records than Dire Straits and Genesis, but we cannot find lower sales figures for those two or some others that are listed with inflated sales figures. Again, we use the lowest available sales figures for all artists on the list, that is of course if they meet the required amount of certified sales. We have, in the past, moved lot of artists down on the list when lower sales figures have become available for them, the same will be done with many others in the future including Dire Straits and Genesis as soon as lower figures become available.

As for certifications, most music markets did have certification-systems in the mid 80s when Bon Jovi became internationally popular, including the U.S., Germany, the U.K., France, Canada, Spain, Sweden, Argentina, Finland and they offer their certifications online going back to mid 80s, even much earlier. Even music markets such as Japan, Switzerland, Austria, Brazil have had certification-systems since 1989-1990, so, much of their official sales are verifiable through the certifications offered by those music markets, which suggest much lower sales figures than 130 million. But when it comes to earlier acts/bands, we should bear in mind that lot of the music markets did not have certification-systems in the late 60s or even mid 70s when Dire Strait and Genesis for example have sold their records. So a notable size of their sales have gone uncertified, but still had they sold as much as new services claim, we would have had much higher certified sales.

Just to let you know, I will update Bon Jovi's sales figure from the current 100 to higher figures as soon as they reach 85 million with their certified sales, this might take time though.--Harout72 (talk) 19:58, 21 January 2015 (UTC)


 * Fair enough. I guess it's just difficult to see some artists' sales figures being held to higher standards than others based on what pie-in-the-sky numbers the papers happen to throw out there.  I guess the system is bound to have flaws based on the different claimed sales figures out there. I think the other thing that drove me here was that, per the Bon Jovi discography page, the worldwide sales estimates for their individual albums (all of which are individually cited) add up to over 135 million (and even more when you add in singles), and the estimates for each album don't really seem that off-base or anything.  I guess it would be good to continue to get more certified sales figures from more countries (as available) for all artists.  I can think of probably 30 countries in Europe, Asia, and Central & South America (as well as New Zealand and South Africa), where Bon Jovi have toured (sometimes many times over) from the late 80s until the 2000s, but which sales figures are not provided. You'd think that if Bon Jovi can fill stadiums over the years in Denmark, Italy, Ireland, the Netherlands, the Czech Republic, New Zealand, Thailand, India, the Phillipines, Norway, Peru, Ecuador, etc, etc, etc, that people there also buy their records. I'll try to look into this more as I have time, but I figure you (or other regular contributors to this article) may have a better idea of where to look. Thanks. --Abog (talk) 23:51, 21 January 2015 (UTC)


 * Well, lot of the music markets in south America and central America or even in Asia are very small, and they represent a very small portion of the Global music sales. For example, if you take south and central American countries like Ecuador, Peru, Uruguay, Venezuela, Chile, Colombia, combined they barely generate enough sales that a small music market like New Zealand does. Similarly, in Asia, countries like Philippines, Singapore, China, Malaysia, Indonesia, Hong Kong, Thailand, Taiwan combined generate less sales than a single European market like the Netherlands or Italy does. So I wouldn't worry about their sales or certification that much. Over the 90% of the global music sales are generated by those music markets whose certified sales we look at, including the U.S., Japan, Germany, the U.K., France, Australia, Canada, Italy, Brazil, the Netherlands (their database isn't functioning at the moment), Sweden, Spain, Mexico, Austria, Switzerland, Belgium, Denmark, Poland.


 * As for the individual sales figures posted at Bon Jovi discography, they are also inflated. Take for example, the 28 million sales for Slippery When Wet, the available certifications for that album represent 15.2 million. I understand that we don't have the certifications for some countries like Japan, Italy, Brazil, Austria, Belgium, Mexico, Denmark, Poland, but those counties generate just over 26% of global sales. We have the certifications coming from all other key markets, so, we would've had at least 20 million in certified sales for that album, had the 28 million claim been true. The same I'd say for all other figures posted on there for other albums. Anyways, just wanted to point out some of the important areas which often drive people into believing inflated sales figures.--Harout72 (talk) 00:45, 22 January 2015 (UTC)