Talk:List of best-selling music artists/Archive 31

Beyonce
Beyoncé's been at 60 million certified records since before she released her self-titled album. I think it's okay to say she's sold another 10 million records since then; self-titled sold 5 million copies, Drunk in Love is platinum in the US and has sold well WW, Partition has also been certified platinum, and her single 7/11 is gold. Also, I was wondering if her soundtrack appearances are included in her certifications? If not they should be. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 50.153.115.4 (talk) 08:23, 19 January 2015 (UTC)
 * We cannot increase it unless its supported by enough certified sales as is needed per the article upgrading rules. This has been explained time and time again. Please do not make requests which cannot be satisfied and stick to the conventions used. — Indian: BIO  [ ChitChat  ] 08:42, 19 January 2015 (UTC)


 * @IP, Beyonce has released her self titled album on December 13, 2013 when her certified sales was 55.5. Now it is 62 million, which includes all her certifications issued by those countries where she reached the required certification-levels. As for the soundtracks, the certifications of soundtracks are included in the total, only when the said artist has contributed 50% or more of the tracks, and those tracks should not have more than two lead artists. That said, Bad Boys II (soundtrack) has only one track by Beyonce, while Dreamgirls: Music from the Motion Picture has only two tracks that qualify, the rest of the tracks that she's on, include more than three/four artists. Therefore, neither of the soundtracks is included in her total certified sales.--Harout72 (talk) 19:25, 19 January 2015 (UTC)

I was wondering if you had a list of Beyoncé's certified sales? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.225.10.211 (talk) 22:23, 26 January 2015 (UTC)
 * Here it is.--Harout72 (talk) 23:08, 26 January 2015 (UTC)

Bruno Mars with 78m-records
Harout, need your help and advise. How far of his certification sales total? is it adequate for him to enter the list? Especially his new song with Mark Ronson has been topped the chart worldwide.

Well at least with claim 78m-records(http://www.palmbeachpost.com/news/entertainment/5-things-to-know-about-bruno-mars/nc7QT/)? Need your advise. Thanks Politsi (talk) 04:55, 27 January 2015 (UTC)
 * That source seems to supports 68 million (10 million albums, 58 million singles). But your other source which you had found earlier which says 78 million units sold, is already supported by Bruno's collected certified sales. He needs 62 million certified units (or 78.5% certified sales) for a claim as high as 79 million, and he's now at 63.5 million with his certified sales. So I will soon put him up on the list, thanks for bringing him up again.--Harout72 (talk) 06:02, 27 January 2015 (UTC)

Ahahahaha.... You know Harout, your discussion with the other editor about Bon Jovi above is so long and very hard to read. Perhaps that's make my brain stop to work for a second. Thanks for remind me and make my brain working again. Politsi (talk) 06:41, 27 January 2015 (UTC)

In my little opinion, our criteria might need to be more strict
I have thumbed-up your great work for 10th anniversary to research what can we report far more honestly because of many inflation of current global music market. Instead, it has really, greatly changed when every time files. For example, you great group members firstly updated 15-35-50 and lately 20-40-60. Nowadays, every user to subscribe it and every editor to discuss it knows 20-45-75.

Unfortunately, I think it it slightly unbalanced from my small prospect. Some needs to be more strict and some other side can be more smoother, dedicating myself to arranged global music industry and its following album single video for this great contemporary art.

First, many older artists will be required a bigger criteria. I know before 1975 most of certifications had not landed on this earth. Therefore, we showed its phases of times. On the contrary, your member's work seems to become more modern time to time. Many newbie of mighty American artist generally gain lot of position in List of Best-Selling Music Artists. Furthermore, several artists who met there two generation period (I mean it is at least 35 years to 50 years) still express their certification by your database. According to your semantic norm of this page, all of world-star who has bee n claimed in our global press must also be a representative emblem and a epitome. Well, when we use 30%, the balance of following generations do not meet equility, for this era themselves to refer how the world market has grown. In conclusion, I suggest 25% for pre-1975 is very reasonable. Difference of 5 ~ 10 millions will not hurt mush artists compare to their total fame!

Second, our music industry and distribution gain its force between 1976 and 1990. I can find the percentage rule is 20-45-75. However, as you know, each variation is 1.66% and 3%. In 1980s, for the last generation of 20 century, a lot of experimental progress in music overwhelmed mass. Alse, in 1990s it remained plus firsly spread to non America-Britain. So, 1.66% might means too tiny. But, there is a paradox. Generally 1990s hugely influenced than 1980s. When we increase this index, the result is 2% and 2% (1976~1990, 1991~2000) because you set up each one into 15 years and 10 years. In sum up, 1976~1990 can be 25~50%.

Third, in my simulation, other two groups required more statistical figure. Of course, 1990s means world most challenge for every continent in regard of music market. East Asia (where I live) and the big land of Europe will recognize this tendency. But, 3% is too large from my sight. 1980s also presented very higher network by satellite service and lately internet helped it. Moreover, 1990s is a great arrangement and a yardstick. Considering the certification progress plus artistic development in contemporary pop service, it must need a difference, no, most highest upwards of index. It minimally wants 2% in each year. To be end, 1991~2000 may be 50~75%. 70% is enough for that but I guess you will never change it. Then, these altercas is an alternative considering 75% degree.

There are also another map: 30-55-75, 30-50-75 (which means a significant change will come.)

80% is too high for every contemporary music! Its outcome will reduce many 2000s artists in here.

Well, we have fought many worldwide fans for this list. But, by 10 years, I guess you gain your own direct ruling. It might be disappointing for these disputers to receive more imposed 5 to 20 millions sell of certification. However, our methodology is much important. Can you deliver your advice?? Thanks. Csciey9654above8848 (talk) 11:00, 27 January 2015 (UTC)

Robbie Williams with 77m-records
Harout, need your help again. How about Williams? As I remember he has released a new album recently. Is his certification sales so far can reach the 77m-claim? (http://www.shieldsgazette.com/what-s-on/robbie-williams-makes-jarrow-girl-s-dream-come-true-1-6693089)

Need your advise. thanks Politsi (talk) 06:59, 27 January 2015 (UTC)
 * Williams needs his claimed sales supported by 63% certified sales as his first single "Freedom" has charted in the UK in late 1996. So, a claim as high as 77 million should have 48.5 million certified units backed up with. And he seems to have reached 48.169 million with his certified sales. He also had collected 860,000 certified units in the Netherlands by 2006, but NVPI's certification database doesn't function at the moment. All in all, I think it's safe to say that we can put him up on the list now.--Harout72 (talk) 14:31, 27 January 2015 (UTC)

Norway certifications
Harout, IFPI Norway is active again. Perhaps you can update some of the certifications? — Indian: BIO  [ ChitChat  ] 15:53, 27 January 2015 (UTC)
 * I need their certification levels for all time periods. I don't have the exact dates of when they adjusted their levels. I've contacted them several times for that information, no response.--Harout72 (talk) 16:31, 27 January 2015 (UTC)

Kiss- 100 million claimed sales
I was wondering why the band Kiss is left off this list. Claimed music sales exceeding 100 million. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2602:306:25D0:81B9:79EF:1401:CAD2:DE8D (talk) 17:09, 27 January 2015 (UTC)

Meatloaf's 80m-records sales source
Harout, I just checked several sources on this list and I find that claim sales source for Meatloaf that we are use seems no longer active (http://lasvegastribune.net/tacos-tequilachefs-max-raise-funds-injured-critic/).

I've been trying to find another reliable source for Meatloaf's 80m-records claim but I just found this (http://weston.dailyvoice.com/celebrations/happy-birthday-redding-s-meat-loaf) and I'm not sure this source reliable enough to support Meatloaf's claim since that source is an Online community news/The Daily Voice (U.S. hyperlocal news) and the contain inside looks like copying from Meatloaf's BioWikipedia.

Another option, I just found this (http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/entertainment/music/reviews/bats-all-folks-after-epic-swan-song-29267674.html) A source that we're previously use for Meatloaf's claim but the contain inside stated 80m-Albums not Records.

I'm confuse. But after think twice, I'll go on to source from The Daily Voice (U.S. hyperlocal news) even not a newspaper and looks like a copy from wikipedia but the article inside stated Records, better than albums only.

Need your advise and If you decided that source I put for Meatloaf's claim is not reliable. Please inform me, and I will go to source from Belfast Telegraph (even the source stated Albums only).

Need your help. thanks Politsi (talk) 02:46, 28 January 2015 (UTC)
 * Well, the archived version of our original source is still available, in case you want to replace it back.--Harout72 (talk) 03:43, 28 January 2015 (UTC)

I have to admit, the contain inside The Daily Voice (U.S. hyperlocal news) about Meatloaf is much more beautiful to see rather than the contain inside the Las Vegas Tribune. And also the source from L.A Tribune seems just like copying also from Meatloaf's BioWikipedia.

Harout, if you feel the source from Daily Voice is not reliable to be put at the list. Please revert it, but personally I will let Meatloaf's claim sales used source from Daily Voice, at least for a while until I found a better source for his claim sales. Thanks Politsi (talk) 04:34, 28 January 2015 (UTC)

Different between Publisher and Work at the claim source section?
Perhaps this question only between the registered editor, especially to Harout and IndianBio.

Harout, need your advise. Why the remark of the source from News Media in the list has been change from Publisher to Work?.

This is confusing because I really hope we running this list with a good look and properly to see. Because I've seen today many source section and not all source has been change.

Publisher to work. What is that mean? is that a mistyping or not?

Need your advise Harout. (I know this is just a simple thing but this is important for me). Thanks Politsi (talk) 09:30, 3 February 2015 (UTC)

Bing Crosby 400 million certified from PBS
Bing was legendary. His claimed sales are 1 billion records. I have 400 million (by 1980) certified units (more than a fifth) from this reliable PBS page: http://www.pbs.org/wnet/americanmasters/episodes/bing-crosby/bing-by-the-numbers-his-amazing-music-records/3528/ (on his new documentary), he needs to be on this list (Utzdman55 (talk) 03:04, 3 February 2015 (UTC))
 * Lol, I will let you answer this one. — Indian: BIO   [ ChitChat  ] 08:34, 3 February 2015 (UTC)
 * @Utzdman55, the claimed sales and certified sales are two completely different things. The artists' record companies often inflate sales figures to make their artists' sales more attractive. Those claimed figures are not necessarily true. Therefore, we largely rely on certified sales to verify those claims. That said, Bing Crosby has very low certified sales. In the U.S., his certified sales stand at 7 million units, in the U.K., 815,000 certified units, in Sweden 25,000 units (see 1996 section). Surely Crosby's an early beginner, but had those huge claimed figures been true to some extend, in the U.S. he would have had at least 100 million certified units as the U.S. has had certification system since 1958. As you may know, this list requires certain amount certified sales. For Crosby, all his claimed figures must be supported by at least 20% certified sales, and as you can see he doesn't have enough.--Harout72 (talk) 13:28, 3 February 2015 (UTC)

Katy Perry's sales
http://www.forbes.com/sites/bobbyowsinski/2015/01/30/katy-perry-and-the-new-super-bowl-sales-bump/

this is the source I've been waiting for loll they said she has sold over 100 million unites 77.44.219.177 (talk) 00:07, 31 January 2015 (UTC)
 * Wrong, it says nearly 100 million units. WE do no go by unconfirmed numbers. — Indian: BIO  [ ChitChat  ] 04:51, 31 January 2015 (UTC)
 * really ? weird !!! you requested any reliable source to make her claimed sales higher than 92. this source says nearly 100 million, that's logical more than her column which saying ( certificated sales 99.8 ) and the claimed sales 92 !!!!!!! right people 77.44.216.219 (talk) 13:40, 31 January 2015 (UTC)
 * Calm down. Source needs to explicitly say the record sales, other wise the old one have to do. Your Katy Perry enthusiasm is appreciated but don't go overdrive. You are really becoming irritating now. — Indian: BIO  [ ChitChat  ] 13:44, 31 January 2015 (UTC)

Harout, If you have a time. Need your advise about this matter, I personally doesn't have any problem with the article stated "units" as long as that statement is not described "albums". And statement "nearly" is also about estimated and same situation with statement "over/more than".

But the matter is, that source come from un-reliable source. I have found that Forbes has been released several wrong and silly statement in their news many times. Politsi (talk) 03:33, 2 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Politsi, that statement itself is absolutely against our verifiability policy. "Nearly 100 million" can mean anything from 98.7 to 99.1 to 99.9 maybe, we do not know. We need explicitly to be mentioned what are the sales. — Indian: BIO  [ ChitChat  ] 06:09, 2 February 2015 (UTC)

Well then, I replaced Britney Spears's claim sales source in the list with the other without "nearly" statement. Thanks for remind me. Politsi (talk) 11:41, 2 February 2015 (UTC)
 * I'm sure a better source will become available for Perry soon. Besides even if that source did say 100 million records, it would still be low considering that her certified sales are already 99.9 million. She must have, by now, sold 115-120 million records (singles, albums, videos combined).--Harout72 (talk) 14:10, 2 February 2015 (UTC)

I'm sure that magazines or any articles won't dear to claim that her sales to be near 120m or so, unless you encourage them, at leeeest in her wiki article I'm a devoted fan who manage a fan-club for Katy Perry ( I know I get on your nerves, but believe I just want to participate ) 77.44.182.236 (talk) 13:30, 3 February 2015 (UTC)

Dire Straits's albums sales certification only
Harout, need your help and advise. In that Band certification sales total, how many exactly in their 43 million-certification sales total for albums only? Is their albums sales dominated their amount of certification sales?

Because if their albums certification nearly 90% dominated in their total of sales certification. I think we should move them down to the 100m-list with this source (http://articles.courant.com/2010-04-29/entertainment/hc-casino.artapr29_1_mgm-grand-mohegan-sun-wolf-den-free-concert)

I can not found the records claim and this is the only reliable source with 100m-statement I have. While the other, of course already said their 120m-claim.

43m vs 120m. Is too much for them I think.

What do you think? thanks. Politsi (talk) 10:38, 3 February 2015 (UTC)
 * In order for us to do that, they should not have any certified sales on singles and videos, or at least the 99% of the entire certified sales should be based on albums. Dire straits have 43.506 million in certified sales (that includes Dutch certified sales which is excluded on the list for now). However, the 1,055,000 (or 2.4%) of the total is based on singles and videos certified sales. So we need a source that says 100 records. See if you can find one that uses records only, let me know.--Harout72 (talk) 13:47, 3 February 2015 (UTC)

Jay Z to 100m-List
Harout, Jay Z certification sales has reach nearly 75 million. I think we should raise and put him to the higher place. 100m-records claim.

I think he deserve to reach that claim (http://money.cnn.com/2015/01/30/technology/jayz-aspiro/index.html?iid=SF_T_River) / (http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/business/industries/media/article4340284.ece)

Need your advise and I prefer we use source from CNN. What do you think?

Thanks Politsi (talk) 09:05, 3 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Good job, this was necessary. I moved him up on the list, I used CNN's claim.--Harout72 (talk) 14:00, 3 February 2015 (UTC)

Proposed modification to rules or guidelines for ranking artists sales
I wonder if the rules or guidelines for ranking artists sales could be modified to make the ranking based on published media-claimed sales OR certified sales, which ever total is higher for any given individual, group, or band? A published media claim of sales looks rather off-base if it is less than the certified sales, even if the discrepancy isn't all that great (although a difference of 6 million in the case of Taylor Swift isn't exactly small either). I believe a reliable published claim cannot be less than the certified sales, even by a small amount. To me, such a discrepancy renders the claim at least contentious, or even definitely inaccurate, which in my opinion, obliges editors remove the claim in accordance with Wikipedia's most basic rule governing all articles and lists. I reckon it's about accuracy rather than making the list into a "competition" (although the music industry itself is pretty much that!). I admit I screwed up my first edit and I apologize for that. However, I saw my second edit as being in accordance with Wikipedia's apparent requirement to remove any contentious or inaccurate material. There is a pattern in this list that the claimed sales are based on published media reports. However, the certified sales are also 'published claims', and I see nothing in the article's guidelines that expressly prohibits using certified sales in that way if the data are obviously more accurate than the closest media claim. Even if that prohibition exists, the rule change I'm proposing would allow the published media claim to be omitted anytime it falls short of the certified claim, as supposedly required by the overriding Wikipedia rule regarding the removal of contentious or obviously inaccurate material. ChrisCarss Former24.108.99.31(talk) 12:50, 4 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Proposal rejected. You have already been explained all of these points in a great detail in above section(s), including why certified sales cannot be used for main ranking. Instead of proposing change in already-well-established-rules, perhaps you can locate sources for Taylor Swift that claim sales of up to 152 million records. Swift's currently available certified sales (117.7 million) can support that as she's required to have her claimed figures supported by 77.1% certified sales (for certified sales percentage requirements refer to the second yellow box from top on this talk-page). Also, bear in mind that RIAA and many other certifying bodies in the world issue the Gold/Platinum awards for Digital Download which are based on Downloads and Streaming. Therefore, the 110 million for Taylor Swift is accurate and maybe even higher considering that Streaming is counted towards her singles certification-awards, this is the reason why her certified sales are a bit higher than her current claim, but not inaccurate.--Harout72 (talk) 14:21, 4 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Oppose – The list is pretty reliable on what and how it represents the sales and is not a hagiography or a fancruft target of fanboys claiming to update sales from any random source (which I presume how it was before). Also, read what Harout said about the streaming sales. — Indian: BIO  [ ChitChat  ] 14:38, 4 February 2015 (UTC)

Metallica to 120m-list
Harout, I really feel that this band sales claim should be raise to 120 million records. I've seen their certification sales has pass 90 million, they begin recording their song since early 1980s and their certification sales spread in many countries.

I told this not because that band is my most favorite band but also seeing their certification sales compare with their current claim in the list, It seems not equal.

I really need your consideration to raise their place in this list, an additional of 10 million claim is logical for them.

This source looks quite prestigious for their 120m-claim (http://www.hindustantimes.com/music/britain-s-glastonbury-embraces-metallica-s-heavier-side/article1-1234851.aspx) and another news source already do the same thing.

Please remind me again if I'm wrong but in this case I feel right.

Need your help and patience. Thanks Politsi (talk) 10:30, 4 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Well, we discussed this back in June, and Metallica has only added 100,000 units to their certified sales since then. So, we're going to wait until their certified sales pass the 95 million mark at least. Once they're between 95 million and 100 million, we'll update their claimed figure. Just to point it out, Metallica's certified sales were 89.2 million when we replaced the previous 100 million claim with 110 million back in October 2013. They've only added 900,000 units to their certified sales since then.--Harout72 (talk) 13:55, 4 February 2015 (UTC)

I realize that we already talking about this before. But I still think that when Metallica has 90 million in their pocket, Their place should be higher than any artists in the 100m-list because comparing with other artists beside Taylor Swift on that list. Metallica is the highest with 9 point in the head of certification sales and is bothering me seeing them in the same list with another artists with certification below 80 million.

Alright then, we wait until Metallica reach 95 million in certification sales. And thank you for answering me, because I'm afraid you're get bored with my question regarding with this. Thanks. Politsi (talk) 01:23, 5 February 2015 (UTC)

Taylor Swift update
Here are the URL's for the latest "claimed" sales for Taylor swift. She's rising so quickly now that all our petty arguments about where and how she should be ranked will soon be irrelevant.

http://tswiftdisposition.tumblr.com/post/93079606417/123-million-records-sold-worldwide-7-grammy-awards https://twitter.com/maseratiswift/status/397402357849264128 https://twitter.com/SlayIorSwift/status/421898355262758913

These URL's might not carry as much weight as the unsourced newspaper report currently cited on this list as Swift's "claimed" sales, but the fact they are independent of each other and quote the identical total of 123 million makes them difficult to ignore. This higher claimed total is more consistent with the 75-80% support from certified sources which this list uses for ranking the other artists active since 2000. ChrisCarss Former24.108.99.31(talk) 11:35, 5 February 2015 (UTC)
 * None of them are even remotely considered reliable source per the guideline. Please familiarize yourself with it and then try to search for sources. And untill and unless a valid, reliable source with claims pertaining to the certification is found, Swift won't be updated. — Indian: BIO  [ ChitChat  ] 12:02, 5 February 2015 (UTC)

I DID say the URL's might not carry as much weight as a newspaper report, and if that means not "remotely" enough weight, then so be it. Other than that, what I AM saying is that Swift's sales have probably risen to 123 million and Wikipedia will soon have the published sources needed to update her rank; unless of course the mass media are COMPLETELY ASLEEP AT THE SWITCH on this one. BTW the proposal rejected yesterday on this page was not mine. I did NOT propose the rankings be based on certified sales alone, but rather on whichever is higher of the certified or claimed sales for any given artist. For artists before 2000, the rankings would continue to be based mainly on claimed sales backed by certified sales according to the formula already being used. According to the suggestion I actually made, certified sales would ony tend to outweigh claimed sales after 2000. It is stated very clearly on this list that certified sales post-2000 are quite accurate and it is not stated anywhere that claimed sales since the turn of the millenium are any more accurate than certified sales. If Wikipedia doesn't like this idea either, that's fine with me. It's not unusual for established rules to take precedence over logic in any organization. I just want to be sure the editors understand properly what's being declined. I should also clarify I have NEVER claimed sales of 152 million by Taylor Swift. That media report is cleary out-to-lunch. The guidelines for reliable sources says that mass media outlets sometimes make mistakes, and the claim of 152 million is clearly a whopper. However, this also increases my suspicion the "Daily Star" report currently cited for Swift's claimed sales is also in error, but on the low side. It is statistically and logically impossible for a claimed amount of anything to be factually lower than the certified amount unless the certified amount is factually incorrect. This scientifically unassailable fact overrides any established rules or fancy word-spinning that might be employed by anyone who would try to make any statement to the contrary. ChrisCarss Former24.108.99.31(talk) 13:00, 5 February 2015 (UTC)

Taylor Swift: Claimed sales less than certified sales!!
Taylor Swift seems to be way under-ranked in this article. I've added 4 million units to her claimed sales based on sales of her latest album which brings her claimed sales to 114 million. Yet her RIAA certified sales already total at least 117 million in the adjacent column. By comparison, Rihanna's certified sales are only slightly higher at about 119 million, yet her claimed sales are way higher at 150 million based on an newspaper report that provides no source for its claim. It looks to me like Taylor is way under-ranked, and Rihanna maybe over-ranked among current artists listed here. ChrisCarss Former24.108.99.31(talk) 14:25, 3 February 2015 (UTC)
 * You appear to be disrupting the list with your edits. Taylor Swift's RIAA certified sales are 105 million, the rest of her 117 million certified units are coming from other music markets. We don't add individual figures to the currently listed claimed sales as you have done in your edit here. The certified sales are updated that way, that is when there are new certified units issued by RIAA, BPI or others.--Harout72 (talk) 15:04, 3 February 2015 (UTC)

So this entire ranking is based solely on U.S. certified and claimed sales, not global? ChrisCarss Former24.108.99.31(talk) 15:13, 3 February 2015 (UTC)
 * The ranking is based on Claims Sales and Certified Sales of those music markets which generate over 90% of the global sales.--Harout72 (talk) 15:16, 3 February 2015 (UTC)

So how can the claimed sales be less than the global certified sales? ChrisCarss Former24.108.99.31(talk) 15:43, 3 February 2015 (UTC)
 * We'll just have to wait until a bit higher claimed sales is released by news services. Currently there is one other claimed sales available for Swift, but it claims 175 million units. Per the rules of this list, she needs her claims supported by 77.1% certified units, which would be 134.9 million certified units needed for claims as high as 175 million. it could take weeks if not some months for Swift to get to 134.9 million certified units.--Harout72 (talk) 15:59, 3 February 2015 (UTC)

Thanks for clarifying this a little. This is just my opinion, but I think if the claimed sales fall behind the certified sales, then the claimed sales are clearly out of date and should be immediately removed from the list, even if it means leaving the appicable space blank or with the the notation "N/A Pending update". The current global certified sales for Taylor are at 17.7 million as stated in the applicable column, which means the total claimed global sales of only 10 million in the next column is badly out of date and needs to be removed immediately until a newer verifiable claim is found. Taylor's ranking should be based soley on the certified numbers for now, or it has no credibility if her ranking can be artificially pulled down by the outdated or deflated sales claim of a newspaper that does't cite its sources. If the ranking is done soley on certified sales, Taylor jumps up into the next higher group just behind Rihanna which is probably where she belongs. Taylor has been greatly outselling Rihanna since 2013. ChrisCarss Former24.108.99.31(talk) 17:00, 3 February 2015 (UTC)


 * It is important that this list isn't viewed as a list of competition. We cannot remove claimed figures as the initial ranking is based on them, and only then on certified sales. Swift's certified sales may be ahead of the currently listed 110 million sales by 7 million, but that gap certainly isn't a major misrepresentation of her true records sales. However, listing her with 175 million sales would be as she hasn't sold more than 125-130 million records based on her available 117 million units of certified sales. The ranking cannot be based solely on certified sales, because the certified sales illustrate accurate sales for artists who've begun charting after mid or late 90s as some of the music markets do not offer their certifications going back earlier than that. And we have many artists on the list who've begun charting in the 70s, 80s and even 60s. But even for earlier artists, the certified sales always help us to determine whether or not the claimed figures are in the neighborhood of the true records sales.--Harout72 (talk) 17:40, 3 February 2015 (UTC)

140 Million records claim
Hello, just saw here: "With 40 million albums and nearly 100 million singles sold worldwide, Taylor Swift is the most successful recording artist of the last two decades." These claims are supported by 77.1% of her 117 million certified units. Is this a reliable source? Thanks, דיידרים (talk) 20:48, 4 February 2015 (UTC)
 * It's not a news service, it's just a TV channel in south Africa. We don't usually support artists' claimed sales with TV channels and such. The figures within the content are definitely realistic. It can be considered to support Swift's sales temporarily. What do other editors think?--Harout72 (talk) 00:08, 5 February 2015 (UTC)
 * My hunch says no, Channel 24 does not exactly ring an authoritative source or a source with commanding credibility for fact checking. Also, that "nearly 100 million singles" is what stops me always. — Indian: BIO  [ ChitChat  ] 05:55, 5 February 2015 (UTC)
 * I guess we'll just wait until something better comes along.--Harout72 (talk) 14:15, 5 February 2015 (UTC)

Harout, the better sales claim for Swift will hardly comes along as long as we only sitting and watch the list without making any visual action. I'm the one who make the media releasing 100m-records sales for Jay Z. Because when Jay-Z's certication sales pass 70 million, I updating his WikiBio from 75m to 100m with the condition of source still reporting his 75m-sales and wait for any article revert from other editor at Jay Z wikibio.

But 100m-records claim in Jay Z wikibio, still stand until CNN and other news media follow it. and Now we use that claim for him and make this list more reliable.

The Police, Jay Z, Bruno Mars and Robbie Williams will not be here unless I actively finding claim sales from some nearly reliable source for them and put it on their WikiBio. And guess what? several newspaper follow it.

So, I'll suggest. We put a new claim sales figure for Swift in her WikiBio which is completely based on requirement for her. For example, Let's put 130m-records in her wikibio (http://www.excite.com/events/concert-tickets/Taylor-Swift/Taylor-Swift-Manchester-MN/index.php), and don't revert it.

The media will take some action and probably follow it.

Harout, what do you think? (you don't have to answer this, if looks wasting your time). Thanks Politsi (talk) 05:50, 6 February 2015 (UTC)


 * I don't edit those pages, so I'm not sure what's taken place on the aforementioned articles. While I understand your logic, all sources must be reliable, otherwise editors are within their right to revert your edits. They also can revert if unverifiable figures are placed on articles. So I'm not sure how you can achieve any of what you're suggesting.--Harout72 (talk) 14:18, 6 February 2015 (UTC)
 * My two cents: Looking at Taylor's US certified sales, I can note that 35-40% of them are based on streaming, and not sales. Having the fact that Taylor got her international success with only 1989 (and slightly with Red) it is impossible that she has sold more than 110 records worldwide (I have doubts that she also sold less than 110!). If she has sold 150 mil, Rihanna then did 190 mil. I can find a source for that too. — Tomíca (T2ME) 14:30, 6 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Surely her certifications include Streaming, but 35-40%? The RIAA counts 100 streams as 1 download. Do we have very recent Nielsen Sound figures for all her recent certifications? Streaming should make up only 10% of her certifications.--Harout72 (talk) 14:59, 6 February 2015 (UTC)

Well, I think there is no choice. Harout, I already found the 175m-records for her from a reliable source. Let's wait until Swift's certification reach 135 million. Politsi (talk) 04:16, 7 February 2015 (UTC)
 * What? 175 million for Taylor? That's such an inflation and untrue. Just check her certifications, for ex. "You Belong with Me" sold 5.1 WW, while is certified 7x Platinum in the US, where it sold maximum of 4 million downloads. This is just one of the examples, I bet there are even more. When I came with the Rihanna source for 180 mil. was an inflation, but Swift 175, that's totally insane... — Tomíca (T2ME) 13:58, 7 February 2015 (UTC)
 * The single "You Belong with Me" had sold 4.5 million in the U.S by November of 2014 (by now it should have sold more). In January of 2014, it was certified Silver in the U.K. for sales of 200,000 units (should be more now), in Australia it was certified 3x Platinum for sales of 210,000 units in 2013, in Japan it had gone Gold for 100,000 units by Sep. 2013, in Canada it was certified 2x Platinum in 2011 for 160,000 units (should've sold more by now). Those are the markets where that single has reached certification levels, it should have sold another 500,000 in the rest of the world where it hasn't reached certification levels.--Harout72 (talk) 16:30, 7 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Then the article needs updating. Having her with sales of over 175 million with only five albums who were mainly popular in the US, it's non-sense. — Tomíca (T2ME) 17:19, 7 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Please read the entire discussion thread. The 175 million has been discussed in the beginning of the thread and it's been said that Taylor Swift at the moment cannot be listed with 175 million. For that she needs to reach 135 million with her certified sales. Her current certified sales (118.3 million), can list her with a maximum of 153 million claimed figure.--Harout72 (talk) 17:32, 7 February 2015 (UTC)

Update: I've found the original source about the 140 million records claim in the German news agency DPA, here. Does it changes anything? Thanks for your answers Indian: BIO   and Harout72. Yours, דיידרים (talk) 20:07, 7 February 2015 (UTC)

Backstreet Boys should be at least 130 Million...
-Edit Again-I saw above that a CNN claim was used as a source to change Jay Z data, so if we trust them for Jay Z, I personally think we can trust them regarding BSB. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.186.0.217 (talk) 03:30, 7 February 2015 (UTC)

I've read a few of the suggested edits, and none of the sources were counted as "reliable". I've tried looking for EXACT numbers, but Nielson doesn't give them (At least not that I can find). Most of the sources I have seen have been suggested and turned down, so here is one I recently found from CNN http://www.cnn.com/2013/08/02/showbiz/backstreet-boys-20/ They place BSB at "more than 130 million album sales worldwide..." Is this a reliable source? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.186.0.217 (talk) 02:41, 7 February 2015 (UTC)

Edit-The Hollywood Walk of Fame also credits BSB as "sales exceeding 130 million albums worldwide" Still not sure if this a reliable source, but it seems to be what all news sources are saying! http://www.walkoffame.com/backstreet-boys

The Guardian-"Backstreet Boys sold 130m records..."http://www.theguardian.com/music/2013/jul/04/backstreet-boys-we-created-memories

Huffington Post-"They notched up an incredible 130 million record sales" http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2013/07/05/backstreet-boys-reunion-take-that_n_3549008.html

The Daily Beast-"more than 130 million records sold..."http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2013/06/28/the-backstreet-boys-on-20-years-new-album-bsb-cruise-one-direction-and-more.html

03:40, 7 February 2015 (UTC)68.186.0.217 (talk)


 * ❌ Considering they are a late 90's group, with 70m in certifications, I'd say 100 million is right on the money.-- Peter Griffin  &bull;  Talk2Me   05:32, 7 February 2015 (UTC)

Well no, they are still recording and selling albums. They haven't broken up like other groups. I just find it interesting that many more sources (more than I've listed) claim 130 Million. It's not fair to say "They are a 90's group so meehhhhh 100mil works..." If CNN is the perfect source for one musician, it should stand for others. Again, they release albums every 1 or 2 years, so they are not just a "90's" group.68.186.0.217 (talk) 06:57, 7 February 2015 (UTC)

Also, I'd like to add that there are several on the bottom of the "120 million to 199 million" list who have less certified units than BSB. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.186.0.217 (talk) 07:02, 7 February 2015 (UTC)


 * When I disregard the notion, I do it simply because it blatantly goes against the policy of this page. If their dates/certifications don't add up they don't qualify.-- Peter Griffin  &bull;  Talk2Me   11:28, 7 February 2015 (UTC)

If you could elaborate on that, I would appreciate it. What about the dates and certifications doesn't add up? When I see other artists with much much less in certified units, maybe you can understand why this confuses me. What would be the ideal number of certified units in this scenario? and how does one find out the certified units?68.186.0.217 (talk) 16:09, 7 February 2015 (UTC)


 * All artists on the list are required to have certain amount of certified sales based on the year they've begun charting. The requirements of the certified sales are posted in the second yellow box from top, on this talk page. The Backstreet Boys should have their claimed sales supported by 60% certified sales, that would be 78 million certified units needed for a claim as high as 130 million. But it is also important to note that the sales figures aren't upgraded unless the available certified sales of the said artist are close to the listed claimed figure. In other words, the sales figure of BSB can only be upgraded if their certified sales come close to the currently listed 100 million claim (they should have at least 85-90 million certified units for that to happen).--Harout72 (talk) 16:27, 7 February 2015 (UTC)

Thank you for your answer, this makes more sense to me now. Any suggestions on how to find out current certified sales? 68.186.0.217 (talk) 17:09, 7 February 2015 (UTC)
 * See this file for their complete certified sales. Note that the Silver/Gold/Platinum/Diamond awards have been converted into figures. Each music market on the file has its own source at the bottom of their section. The certified sales for all artists are also posted on the list in the column of Certified Sales, the sources for all of them are there also.--Harout72 (talk) 17:44, 7 February 2015 (UTC)

I noticed that the RIAA site hasn't updated sales since the early 2000's. What about Itunes downloads? are those considered certified sales? and also, how does streaming/youtube play into this, or does it all? Just curious! Thanks again for all the info! Much appreciated!68.186.0.217 (talk) 20:32, 7 February 2015 (UTC)


 * I'm not sure where you're getting the idea that RIAA hasn't updated its site since 2000's, it is up to date. It's just Backstreet Boys haven't reached certification levels after 2005 in the U.S. with their albums and singles. All legal downloads count towards Gold/Platinum certifications. For information as to how RIAA (for example) counts streaming, see this. Many others certifying bodies including Germany, Italy, Spain, Denmark (just to name a few) also include streaming in the certifications of Digital downloads.--Harout72 (talk) 21:56, 7 February 2015 (UTC)

Iron Maiden - Albums certification
The band Iron Maiden should be added to this list. Claimed music sales of 85 million.

[Pfanner, Eric (5 September 2010). "Die-Hard Fans Follow Iron Maiden into the Digital Age". The New York Times. Retrieved 10 October 2010]



Harout, I just a little bit curious. Actually how many of Iron Maiden's albums certification sales only? is it quite enough to support 75 million albums?/ http://www.theguardian.com/music/musicblog/2010/mar/25/iron-maiden-olympics

Need your advise if possible. thanks Politsi (talk) 09:34, 12 February 2015 (UTC)
 * They need at least 21.2 million certified units to be listed with a 75 million claim for albums, as their claimed figures should be supported by 28.3% certified sales. Their entire available certified sales are 16.4 million which includes 14.9 million certified albums, the rest are based on videos.--Harout72 (talk) 14:30, 12 February 2015 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 16 February 2015
It says Rihanna's origin is Barbadian (Barbados) and American (America), however she is not American in any way, only Barbadian.

82.14.201.156 (talk) 14:24, 16 February 2015 (UTC)

I have no idea why, or where, it says "state the origin not the nationality" - perhaps User:Harout72, or another editor, can explain? - Arjayay (talk) 15:29, 16 February 2015 (UTC) ⋅
 * There was a dispute about this on 22 November 2010, as can be seen here with an edit summary "We actually state the origin not the nationality. In other words, Rihanna has begun her career in US not in Barbados, but let's leave Barbados in place as well".
 * The list provides information about artists' musical career, therefore, we list Country of Origin, which refers to the country artists have begun their careers in, or where they're signed, or where their music is being produced. For personal information about artists including their birth place or nationality, editors/readers should visit the main pages of the artists listed here.--Harout72 (talk) 16:16, 16 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the explanation - Arjayay (talk) 16:45, 16 February 2015 (UTC)

Queen Forever
When it comes to Queen, I think the amount of certified sales stated here are not yet updated. The reason I say this is because of the release of the new "Forever" album. Although not all sales have been collected, citing the BPI from the Wikipedia article for Queen Forever Wikipedia. "Queen Forever", there has been 100,000^ "British album certifications "Queen Forever"". British Phonographic Industry. Enter Queen Forever in the field Keywords. Select Title in the field Search by. Select album in the field By Format. Select Gold in the field By Award. Click Search sales for the album in the UK. Citing the ZPAV, there has been 10,000*"Polish album certifications "Queen Forever" (in Polish). Polish Producers of Audio and Video (ZPAV). January 14, 2015. Retrieved January 15, 2015., and finally citing FIMI, 25,000*"Italian album certifications "Queen Forever" (in Italian). Federation of the Italian Music Industry. Retrieved 12 January 2015. Select Album e Compilation in the field Scegli la sezione. Select Week -- and Year. Enter Queen in the field Artista. Click Avvia la ricerca. This is still early, and the shipments from other countries will soon be accounted for in that Wikipedia article (maybe I'll do some research into that). So it says here that the certified sales are 103.9 million, could it just be raised to 104 million? To secure such a change, the UK would be changed to 23.755 million, Italy would be changed to 330,000, and Poland to 770,000. Bobtinin (talk) 08:39, 18 February 2015 (UTC)
 * All newly issued certifications get updated the same day here, including BPI's Gold which was issued on December 19, 2014, and updated here the same day. All those certifications you mentioned above are included on the list. For Queen's detailed certified sales see this document. Whatever certification you see on that file is also on the list.--Harout72 (talk) 13:58, 18 February 2015 (UTC)

Thanks for taking the time to explain. It seems you are right, I just wanted to make sure it was updated. --Bobtinin (talk) 21:39, 18 February 2015 (UTC)

Queen Certified Sales
I'm sorry to keep being a bother, but in the document given to me by Harout72 it seems that there are several countries that were not added to this list. Keeping this strictly internal to Wikipedia, if you look at the Wikipedia pages for some of Queen's albums there are certified sales from other countries, which are not included under the Certified Sales in this article. I'm mainly talking about Netherlands which should probably added to the list of Certified Sales seeing as the NVPI have been cited many times. Netherlands accounts for up to 800,000 certified sales alone! So with your permission I would like to input Netherlands and maybe some other unaccounted countries into this document, so we can change the total number of Certified Sales to what it should be. --Bobtinin (talk) 02:48, 19 February 2015 (UTC)
 * You need to sign your posts. Netherlands' certified sales aren't included because their certification database doesn't function at the moment, which makes it impossible for readers to verify the certified sales that were available before. Also, all countries must have at least 100,000 certified units available in order for us to include their certified sales, otherwise, they are left out until the total there comes up to 100,000 certified units. This is stated on the list, below each section.--Harout72 (talk) 00:30, 19 February 2015 (UTC)

Well then in that case what about Norway which have 100,000+ just counting the certified sales of the albums Made in Heaven and the Platinum Collection. --Bobtinin (talk) 20:55, 19 February 2015 (UTC)
 * At the moment Norway's left out for all artists because we don't have their certification-levels for all periods. Just like most markets in the world Norway's IFPI has also adjusted their certification-levels due to declining music sales. But I don't have the exact dates they've made the changes in levels. This is very important. If you could contact Norway's IFPI and get a document such as this that I've for example gotten for Austria, which lists all dates for changes, I'll be more than happy to go over the available certifications for all artists that Norway has, and I will add them. I personally have contacted them via e-mail a few times, but no response.--Harout72 (talk) 22:56, 19 February 2015 (UTC)

Curious, to me that raises questions about how exactly those certified sales numbers for Norway were obtained for the Wikipedia articles belonging to the Made in Heaven album as well as The Platinum Collection. And this would also go for the Netherlands in all of the other articles for Queen albums in which they were mentioned. --Bobtinin (talk) 00:26, 20 February 2015 (UTC)

Oh and also, I just found out that sales in Mexico did surpass 100,000 and so they should therefore be added to the certified sales, take a look at this (sorry if you can't speak Spanish but "oro" is gold and platino is "platinum") AMPROFON certifies for Mexico in case you didn't know. --Bobtinin (talk) 00:39, 20 February 2015 (UTC)


 * Mexico's certifications for Queen are included on the file I provided for you above. The certification-levels for Amrofon are posted on their web site here. The levels for Videos are Gold=10,000 units, Platinum=20,000. The total certified units here are 60,000 units (4 Gold Videos and 1 Platinum video).


 * As for the Dutch certification levels, see this file I've received from NVPI. Norway's earlier certification-levels for albums are Gold=25,000 units and Platinum=50,000 units (the exact dates for changes are unknown). BTW, the source for the Dutch certification at Made in Heaven doesn't work, therefore the certification on there should be removed as it's unverifiable.--Harout72 (talk) 01:44, 20 February 2015 (UTC)

It is in the said document, however it is not on this page. If you look under Queen, I wasn't able to find Mexico, so I think putting them in is in order. Also I know about the certification levels, but my question was really directed towards the legitimacy of the claims that people were making on the Queen album pages when they listed Netherlands (they were also listed in the Made In Heaven album wikipage) under the certified sales. As you said before, their database can't be accessed currently, so how were the numbers obtained? --Bobtinin (talk) 05:43, 20 February 2015 (UTC)

UPDATE: In your document, under "Mexican Certified Sales" you have misinterpreted the certification numbers. It does seem confusing, but I speak Spanish, so I can say with certainty on their website, on this page if it was certified between 2003 and 2007 then for gold it is 50,000 and for platinum it is 100,000. So yeah, also changing that is in order. --Bobtinin (talk) 05:53, 20 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Netherlands' certification database used to work until around 2011. But since NVPI's web site currently doesn't have the certification database up and running, all previously posted certifications all over wikipedia should be removed as none can be verified.


 * As for Mexico's certifications, please read the web site carefully. The certification-levels you are speaking of are for albums, the levels for videos have never changed, they are and have always been Gold=10,000, Platinum=20,000. The criteria for Videos is the second section from the bottom CRITERIOS PARA LA CERTIFICACION DE VENTAS FÍSICAS / VIDEOS MUSICALES. Amrofon doesn't have any certifications for Queen's albums, they are all certifications for videos.--Harout72 (talk) 08:06, 20 February 2015 (UTC)

Hahaha, I can't believed I missed that part of the page. Sorry for wasting your time, I've tried contacting NVPI so we could verify those certification sales. Both for this Wikipedia page, and the album pages for Queen. --Bobtinin (talk) 21:04, 20 February 2015 (UTC)

Coldplay recognition?
According to their wiki page, Coldplay has sold over 80 million albums, with a link to this article. However, they are not listed. Is this accidental oversight or purposeful? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.235.235.44 (talk) 19:56, 19 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Regrading their exclusion, see this archived discussion.--Harout72 (talk) 23:15, 19 February 2015 (UTC)

Okay, I looked at your Coldplay document, how were you able to obtain data from Netherlands? --Bobtinin (talk) 03:42, 21 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Just like other music markets, their certification-database used to work before (I'm repeating myself here again), however, the certifications results were for the years of up to 2006 only, no certifications were available in NVPI's database beyond that point.--Harout72 (talk) 05:18, 21 February 2015 (UTC)

Those Dutch need to fix that certification database, the Dutch bought a lot of music from these bands I'm sure. Also, I was asking cause that's unverifiable now, as established earlier. --Bobtinin (talk) 16:53, 21 February 2015 (UTC)

By the way Harout, I'm editing your Coldplay document, unless you have a more updated version. I found out that you've missed some things (Ex: Austrian certfied sales for Ghost Stories, A Sky Full of Stars single for Denmark, etc.). I'll show you my changes with highlighted text. I'm not deleting anything, just simply adding on. These are also from the same website as your sources, so although I'll be adding the link to the source of my change, you should be able to trust the source (mostly IFPI). --Bobtinin (talk) 17:47, 21 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Yes, the Austrian Gold certifications was issued there in August 2014 and naturally I added it after that discussion took place. Here is the updated version of my file now. As for Denmark's certification for "A Sky Full of Stars", it's not a certification for Download, it's for Streaming, we don't add streaming certifications. Denmark combined their Streaming with Download on November 17, 2014. The streaming is now part of Downloads, that is for titles released after November 17, 2014.--Harout72 (talk) 18:30, 21 February 2015 (UTC)

Wow man, absolute clockwork, those are just about all the changes I made to your document, so it's pointless for me to show you. Anyways, it's true that Coldplay started charting in 2000, so this is closed until they sell 60 million units, right now they have around 65% of the 80 million claimed, so another 10% for them to appear on the list. If any claims for 75 million are found, then it would be increased to 69%. Keep selling Coldplay! --Bobtinin (talk) 19:31, 21 February 2015 (UTC)

Jennifer Lopez
Jennifer Lopez has sold 80 million records. (http://www.hmv.com/music/where-to-start-with-jennifer-lopez) / (http://mamimuse.com/6307/dale-j-lo-jennifer-lopez-becomes-first-latina-receive-billboard-icon-award/)--Jlo Fan 1999 (talk) 17:45, 12 February 2015 (UTC)
 * The second link is broken, and what is the specific source for the said sales? (Note: You must provide credible ones) --Bobtinin (talk) 22:13, 19 February 2015 (UTC)

I have found more sources. (http://jennifer-lopez.net/2014/08/04/jennifer-lopez-x-factor-australia/) / (http://www.expatliving.sg/Things_to_do/concerts_theatre/Singapore-F1-2014-Guide-to-headliners-including-Robbie-Williams-and-J-Lo-across-the-Grand-Prix-weekend-58003.ece) / (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-2714686/Jennifer-Lopez-sets-boys-hearts-racing-Dean-Ray-continues-quest-prove-hes-bona-fide-rock-star-X-Factor.html) Are they ok ?--Jlo Fan 1999 (talk) 16:35, 22 February 2015 (UTC)
 * As you may already know, in order for artists to be added to this list, they need certain amount of certified sales based on the first year they've begun charting. Since Jennifer Lopez has begun charting in 1999, she is required to have her claimed figures supported by 72% certified sales, which would be 57.6 million certified units for claims as high as 80 million records. Her available certified sales, however, are only 31.4 million.--Harout72 (talk) 16:55, 22 February 2015 (UTC)

U2 are at 170 million records
The U2 claimed sales are a bit obsolete. There are various sources that claim that they sold 170 million. To list a few, http://m.pitchfork.com/reviews/albums/12022-boy-october-war/

https://books.google.com/books?id=lVoqAAAAQBAJ&pg=RA3-PA2014&lpg=RA3-PA2014&dq=u2+170+million+records&source=bl&ots=R8-qvAf9yB&sig=vlem9dJmR7xAQXxKpacPSX-T3Fo&hl=en&sa=X&ei=ATTqVLGyNsWqNrbvgJgM&ved=0CDIQ6AEwBQ#v=onepage&q=u2 170 million records&f=false

http://franklin.davidson.edu/academic/music/public/mus401/jafarrelly/U2.html

http://plrplr.com/63424/u2-legends-of-rock/

So now you get the point. I now that this is a busy page, but I would appreciate if the information is updated to correspond with recent times. user — Preceding unsigned comment added by Correctingsection0062 (User talk:Correctingsection0062 • contribs) 20:01, 22 February 2015 (UTC)


 * Your sources are not reliable. Also, this list uses the lowest available published claimed figures which are closer to artists' certified sales. That is actually stated at the end of the lead. Based on U2's available certified sales (102.7 million), the 150 million claim is correct.--Harout72 (talk) 20:14, 22 February 2015 (UTC)

Ok, thanks for the heads up. Correctingsection0062 (User talk:Correctingsection0062 — Preceding undated comment added 01:04, 23 February 2015 (UTC)

Certifications
I Would like to see the document with all of Rihanna's certified sales. Thank you. --Rudeby88 (talk) 20:36, 21 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Here it is.--Harout72 (talk) 21:38, 21 February 2015 (UTC)

I was wondering if "All of the Lights" certification could be added to Rihanna's UK sales? --24.139.120.225 (talk) 03:02, 22 February 2015 (UTC)
 * KANYE WEST FT DRAKE & RIHANNA - ALL OF THE LIGHTS
 * Silver Certification (Single) 22 July 2013
 * UNIVERSAL MUSIC (ROC-A-FELLA)
 * Released 1
 * The issued certifications for that single have only been added to the total of Kanye West as he's the lead artist on it and he's the only one with the bigger part. The certifications should not be added to the total of featured artists when there are more than one featured artists involved. There is a table on this talk page which illustrates in which cases certifications of such singles should be added.--Harout72 (talk) 09:57, 22 February 2015 (UTC)

Rihanna's Venezuela Certifications (APFV) - 65,000


 * Diamonds - 30,000 (3 × Platinum)
 * Stay - 20,000 (2 × Platinum)
 * The Monster - 10,000 (Platinum)
 * Right Now - 5,000 (Gold)

Noway (IFPI Norway) - 50,000
 * Can't Remember to Forget You - 50,000 (5 × Platinum)

--Rudeby88 (talk) 03:33, 23 February 2015 (UTC)

Kiss Sales
The reference for the 25 million in Kiss sales is footnoted as the RIAA searchable database. The RIAA searchable database, when using "Advanced Search" with Artist set to "Kiss" and Format set to "Album" shows a much smaller number than 25 million. The only way I can see someone getting near 25 million is if you are looking at the sales of Video boxsets by Kiss. If you mistakenly believe that their 8x platinum and 6x platinum best selling boxsets represent the sale of 14 million units combined, plus other video box sets and album sales, you could think that their sales approached or surpassed 25 million. However, under the criteria for RIAA's certification, the platinum sales figure for Videos and Video box sets is 100,000 and not 1 million. Therefore the 8x and 6x platinum box sets represent album sales of zero and represent video sales of 1.4 million.

Unless someone is using another justification I would suggest a change be made. 68.5.203.247 (talk) 01:46, 22 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Type in Kiss in the main search box, then go to advanced search, type in Kiss in artist box. You should see all of them. They have four pages of certified albums alone. For their detailed certified sales see this document.--Harout72 (talk) 01:57, 22 February 2015 (UTC)
 * I already did that in RIAA, and saw the list of four pages of albums, which add up to 20 million, not 25 million. The document you reference shows 20 million as well.  We are in violent agreement that the article should say that KISS have 20 million in certified US album sales, then. 50.74.107.242 (talk) 15:59, 24 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Have you read the lead of this list? This list includes certified sales of Albums, Singles, Videos, not just albums. That said, in addition to 20 million certified albums, Kiss have 3 million certified videos, and 2 million certified singles. That's 25 million certified units.--Harout72 (talk) 16:37, 24 February 2015 (UTC)

Limit of Seven Artists?
For highest-selling artists at the top, there is a recurring message that says that it can ONLY be seven. Well why? --Bobtinin (talk) 16:09, 26 February 2015 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 10 March 2015
Erikeit (talk) 23:45, 10 March 2015 (UTC)


 * as you have not requested a change. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format. --I am  k6ka  Talk to me!   See what I have done  01:11, 11 March 2015 (UTC)

Queen Claimed Sales
Hold on a second, I just saw that 20% of claimed sales are required. I've read in many places that Queen's claimed sales are 300 million. In fact in another Wikipedia article almost exactly like this one, except limited to Great Britain, it says 300 million estimated sales. Well if I'm not wrong 103 million is around 33.3% of that. If you need other sources other than the one given in those of the linked Wikipedia page, I would be happy to give them to you. Let me remind you before you deny this, that claimed sales are based on estimates given by the media and musical outlets. If you think that Wikipedia article is wrong then you should indeed say something about this. --Bobtinin (talk) 23:29, 20 February 2015 (UTC)
 * If you also read everything that is in the lead of this list including the last two sentences, your questions can be answered.--Harout72 (talk) 23:44, 20 February 2015 (UTC)

Okay then tell me this, how the hell is Pink Floyd in the top section with 10 million more certified sales than Queen, when their claimed sales go up to 250 million! --Bobtinin (talk) 00:19, 21 February 2015 (UTC)

I would also like to add, since Billboard and MTV are put down as a credible, highly regarded, music organizations, why have they said this as well? --Bobtinin (talk) 00:22, 21 February 2015 (UTC)
 * All top sections of the list use two claimed figures that are closer to artists' available certified sales, that is the same for Pink Floyd and Queen. As for your Billboard source, it uses the term albums and not records (albums, singles, videos), which makes the 300 million claim for Queen even more inflated that the sources that use the term records. Based on Queen's certified sales, their sales are not only based on albums, they have certified singles and videos also.--Harout72 (talk) 00:38, 21 February 2015 (UTC)

So let me get this straight, 116 million is close to 250 million? That is completely absurd. Also please explain Albums vs. Records, to me they're the same. Edit: If it is the case, then Queen should also be up there in the 250 million range. --Bobtinin (talk) 01:21, 21 February 2015 (UTC)


 * I'm not sure why this is difficult to understand. The list uses the two available published claimed figures that are closest to artists' certified sales. Two figures for the top sections, the rest of the sections use one claimed figure that is also the closest to the certified sales. If there were lower claimed figures for Pink Floyd, we would have used those, but the 250 million and 200 million are the lowest published figures. The term Albums stands for albums, and the term Records stands for singles, albums, videos combined. Queen's lowest available claimed figures are 150 million and 200 million, which are much closer to their available certified sales than the 300 million, therefore, they are placed in the section 200 million to 249 million records. This list, by the way, shouldn't be viewed as a competition list.--Harout72 (talk) 02:00, 21 February 2015 (UTC)

I don't view this as a competition at all, in fact I like Pink Floyd a lot, it's just a simple comparison. You've basically said that the determination of claimed sales is based on lowest one you can find rather than consistency. So now it's pointless to say otherwise, simply because of 2 articles estimating Queen's sales at 150 million. To me that's favoring the most conservative estimates over the more realistic ones (according to several music media outlets). I'm looking here at the Wikipedia Queen article, and the range of sales is from 150 to 300 million. It's a pity we go with the conservative estimates, but I guess nothing can be done about that. Anyways, I hope I can help you in the future with other record sale increases, cause I want to get the certified sales for whatever country I can for these bands. --Bobtinin (talk) 03:33, 21 February 2015 (UTC)

I'm sorry for reviving this talk section, but I looked at the sources for 150 million claimed sales under Queen. Is it really fair to base the 150 million estimate over 2 articles about Brian May getting tested for cancer? I mean, I know you may think the 300 million is a stretch, but I have sources ranging from BBC to Queen themselves, which say 300 million records. --Bobtinin (talk) 02:17, 25 February 2015 (UTC)

Alright Harout, since I'm getting no response, then I guess it would be fine if I made edits? I would anticipate not, so I ask you why the hell Michael Jackson exclusively gets 3 claimed figures. There are an overwhelming amount of sources that put Queen's claimed figures up to 300 million records, so they should be put at 250+ million, and because you insist on keeping the lowest amount (despite its source coming from an article about Cancer Tests) it could be listed 150 million, 200 million, 300 million. Please respond, because it seems only fair that Queen is put up there. --Bobtinin (talk) 18:16, 1 March 2015 (UTC)
 * You have been thoroughly and clearly explained in number of ways as to how this list is operated. You should respect the rules and accept them. However, if you still decide to make edits by going against the rules, your edits will be reverted immediately as you'll be disrupting this list. In fact, your repeated posts here which keep going over the same points which have already been covered constitutes disruption.--Harout72 (talk) 19:02, 1 March 2015 (UTC)
 * stop your continuous whining. The list and its rules are correct and Queen will never be accepted. Stop disrupting the talk page else next posts like this will be reverted. Don't waste other's time. — Indian: BIO  [ ChitChat  ] 19:18, 1 March 2015 (UTC)

Woah, woah, I was only asking questions. I never said I would edit anything, in fact I said I would anticipate it wasn't okay. And I understand the points you're making, but it just seems odd that Michael Jackson gets 3 claimed figures. I've just been inquiring about this, cause Harout pointed me in the right direction by saying records are ideal for referring to claims, rather than albums. So I went out of my way to find reliable sources that said records, rather than simply albums. Turns out it was pretty easy to find reliable sources that said as such. But I want you to understand that I'm trying to improve the accuracy of this page, I just want all artists to get the same chance for advancement or even placement on the list. I know now that I've been kicking a dead horse, so I'll let this section get archived. --Bobtinin (talk) 19:43, 1 March 2015 (UTC)

The percentage amount of certified sales needed increases the newer the artist is
Even if this is perfectly grammatically correct it's a headache for people to read. Surely there is a better way to write this, but I'm having trouble even figuring out what it means.  Lazy Bastard  Guy  23:06, 22 February 2015 (UTC)
 * I guess you're right, maybe rewording it is a good idea. But if you're having trouble figuring out what it means; it's saying that to be placed on the list they must have claimed sales that make up a certain percentage of claimed sales, to be placed or advanced on the list. So for example if "Example Band" charted their first record in 1990 and they had 45% of their claimed sales (ex: 75 million) in certified sales, then they could be placed on the list. The percentage however, ranges within a decade, so if "Example 2 Band" had charted their first record in 1995 then they would need 60% (cause extra 3% per year after 1990) of their claimed sales in certified sales to be on the list. --Bobtinin (talk) 19:57, 1 March 2015 (UTC)

Problem with total certified units sold
I know the intention behind the inclusion of the actual certified numbers from every country and I appreciate it. But considering that the RIAA and BPI now include streaming into the singles certification (and probably will introduce a similar method into certificating albums) wouldn't that artificially inflate the record sales of newer artists?

"Bad Romance" by Lady Gaga has been certified Diamond in the US (which would usually indicate sales of 10 million) but stands at 5.6 million as of now (according to SoundScan.)

Also: Aquiring a gold or platinum plaque by most of the countries is always bound to costs, so record labels often avoid applications for certifications and leave the song certified at a low threshold of sales, even though they have sold a lot more:

Example: "Poker Face" by Lady Gaga has sold 7.2 million copies in the US alone, as reported by Billboard and NielsenSoundscan, the certification however stagnated at at 5x Platinum (which indicated 5 million sales). "Born This Way" by Lady Gaga has been certified Gold by the BVMI in Germany for sales of 150,000 copies, however it ranked at #17 of the 2011 year-end chart and the singles ranking below it acquired Platinum plaques within the same year (The #20 of the ranking "Still" by Jupiter Jones was released in 2011 and aquired a platinum plaque in 2011). Logically, Born This Way must have sold more than 300,000 copies to be able to rank higher on the year-end chart.

Comparing the statistics of Lady Gaga's reported sales (Soundscan), she accumalted a figure somewhere between 57-60 million records sold in the US (while the RIAA certified 35 million of them.)

I think it just lacks accuracy. --2A02:810C:8C0:22C8:5CCC:47DC:1B19:E9CB (talk) 19:46, 3 March 2015 (UTC)
 * RIAA allows Record companies to have records (singles, albums, videos) certified for multiple sales levels all at once, by submitting a single fee. This is the reason why certifications sometimes are issued late. In order to avoid paying multiple fees for the same single, album, video, the record companies wait for records to reach multiple certification-levels, that way they end up paying less. For Lady Gaga's U.S. sales, I'm counting 51.7 million soundscanned units, at least based on the sources provided including this source. We should very soon see the gap between the actual sales and the certified sales narrow down in the U.S. as it won't be long until new certifications are issued.--Harout72 (talk) 20:37, 3 March 2015 (UTC)
 * While that source is definitely more accurate, it is not up to date for Poker Face, Just Dance, Born This Way, Bad Romance and singles Judas & Marry The Night (which weren't even listed) as well as her music DVD releases and the statistics of album tracks sold (the sales of those can be found on the tracks respective Wikipedia pages though). Also it doesn't include the Gold certification of then a then unreleased Cheek to Cheek. --2A02:810C:8C0:22C8:5CCC:47DC:1B19:E9CB (talk) 21:04, 3 March 2015 (UTC)

Beyonce Sold 80 million records
I have found a source claiming Beyonce sold 80 million records worldwide. Can you kindly check it to see if it is legitimate.http://www.coasttocoasttickets.com/concerts/beyonce_tickets.shtmlMusicislife95 (talk) 00:30, 7 March 2015 (UTC)
 * That is not a reliable source I'm afraid.--Harout72 (talk) 03:48, 7 March 2015 (UTC)

Fix: Rihanna's sales
First, i love Rihanna, she's really great as an artist. but the numbers here are wrong. according MTV she sold 30 million worldwide here is the link: http://www.mtv.com/artists/rihanna/biography/ and according bet.com she sold 25 million worldwide in 2013 http://www.bet.com/news/music/2012/11/09/rihanna-awarded-for-100-million-record-sales.html (and 10M of those are just in US according Billboard: http://www.billboard.com/articles/columns/chart-beat/5793204/rihanna-hits-10-million-in-us-album-sales)

So please, fix that fake data. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 190.229.184.68 (talk) 17:07, 7 March 2015 (UTC)
 * Lol The data is not fake. Here we talk about records sales (albums + singles + videos), not albums. — Tomíca (T2ME) 17:20, 7 March 2015 (UTC)

Beyoncé claimed sales.
Please, change Beyoncé claimed sales total. Beyoncé has sold 120M albums on her solo career so far. Source: http://www.mtv.com/news/1703895/beyonce-bow-down-i-been-on-reality/

Thank you very much!

Erikeit (talk) 04:00, 9 March 2015 (UTC) Erikeit (talk) 04:00, 9 March 2015 (UTC)
 * ❌ They do not pass the certification threshold. Please read the top of this page to understand how the list is compiled. — Indian: BIO  [ ChitChat  ] 05:08, 9 March 2015 (UTC)

Updating Bon Jovi's sales
I've been doing some research and double checking all of the band's certifications and sales figures (from all the reliable sources) and I believe their current worldwide sales total should be 80,592,400.

The countries which need adjusting (including NZ which currently is not listed in their sales) are;

Furthermore, in the Argentinean certifications, Destination Anywhere is listed as an album, not a video. Therefore it should account for 30,000 records instead of 8,000. This would bring the Argentinean total from 428,000 as listed, to 450,000.

Adding these updated figures together, along with the other countries which do not need updated, the total sales for Bon Jovi should be 80,592,400.

Also, once the Netherlands searchable database is working again, we will be able to add another 710,000 onto that.

As a side note, when you include Italy (80,000), Hungary (84,500), Denmark (30,000), and Ireland (37,500) that total reaches 80,824,400 (but we don't want to be splitting hairs I guess).

Thoughts?

Cheers. Savvi72 (talk) 09:37, 14 March 2015 (UTC)


 * Thanks for bringing Germany's certified sales to my attention, I had all of the German certifications on my file, but I had gone over them too quickly while adding them up.
 * As for those certifications of Australia coming from a book, we'd need to have all pages scanned and uploaded for this list, just like for example I've scanned and uploaded the certifications for Spain 1979-1990, 1991-1995, 1996-1999, 2000-2002.
 * For France, you seem to have actual sales posted for some, the certified figures are supposed to be round figures as they represent certification-award-levels. The single "It's My Life" is certified Silver only (125,000 units), not Gold. The SNEP's newer certification database brings up all previous Silver-awards as Gold-awards, because they haven't programmed the database in a way so it could recognize the Silver-awards. See the older database for that Silver-award.
 * The level you have for Mexico is incorrect for Keep the Faith, it's Gold for 100,000 units. You can find AMPROFON's levels here. I had only Gold for Crush, thanks for that. I will correct this very soon.
 * For New Zealand, we use only the official chart site to support the NZ certifications.
 * As for Argentina, their database doesn't seem to support the certifications for videos anymore, so I had to remove all of the figures for Videos, this I did for all artists. In fact, I can't seem to find some of the certifications for albums either that were available before, so I had to remove those too.--Harout72 (talk) 01:49, 15 March 2015 (UTC)


 * ...No worries Harout72
 * I have photos of the respective pages for each Bon Jovi certification in the ARIA yearbooks, but not the whole book (this would take a lot of time and would cost me a bit to do as I had to borrow the journals from the state library). Will the single-page photos suffice? I can get single page scans but not immediately.
 * As for New Zealand, I'm not sure why the figures on Radioscope can not be used. It is stated on the official chart site "An independent agent, Radioscope, collects the raw retail sales data on which The New Zealand Music Chart is based. Radioscope compiles the charts using the sales information it has collected." The source I cited was the official Radioscope site (although it is no longer online).
 * I noticed your removal of all the Argentinean video certifications, so good job on that. I'm not sure why the albums have to be removed though just because some data cannot be found. Surely the data that is still available can be used? The total available certifications for Bon Jovi (by my calculations - using the correct data that IS available) is 360,000.Savvi72 (talk) 06:38, 15 March 2015 (UTC)


 * Australia: Single pages probably won't do, because for verification purposes, readers should be able to see the entire section for certifications and also the main page that shows who the book is compiled by and published by. Instead what I would recommend is to contact the ARIA via e-mail and ask for the full list of certifications for Bon Jovi. One of the editors has done this in the past for Cher, see this.
 * New Zealand: I personally don't mind using Radioscope, it's just its list of certifications isn't complete, it starts from 2007 and ends in 2011. Almost all of those certifications on Radioscope are also available on the archived charts, with an exception of those that have been off the chart for many years and get re-certified for higher certification-levels. That said, I'm only seeing the 6x Platinum that has been re-certified while it's been off the chart for years. OK that is worth adding to the list with the rest of already available certifications from the chart. So I have 112,500 certified verifiable units now. I will add NZ certs soon.
 * Argentina: CAPIF has lowered its certification levels on January 1, 2001. So, the Gold for One Wild Night is only for 20,000 units. I haven't removed any certification-figures for any albums that can currently be found here.--Harout72 (talk) 15:19, 15 March 2015 (UTC)

CHRISTINA AGUILERA SHOULD BE ON THE LIST.
OVER 100 MILLIONS RECORDS SOLD (50M ALBUM SALES & OVER 60M SONGS!!) MORE THAN TAYLOR, BEYONCE, ETC.. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.35.48.41 (talk) 14:53, 21 March 2015 (UTC)

Adele with 90m-records claim
Harout, I need your help and advise. What do you think? How many of Adele's certification sales total so far?

Is it fit enough to support 90m-sales claim? because in this article (http://www.telegraphindia.com/1150224/jsp/t2/story_5056.jsp) Adele has been said sold 40m-albums and 50m-singles.

Need your advise. Thanks Politsi (talk) 05:12, 23 March 2015 (UTC)
 * For 90 million claim, Adele needs 70 million certified sales (77.8%), but she so far has 62 million certified units.--Harout72 (talk) 13:23, 23 March 2015 (UTC)

Alan Jackson's 80m-records claim
Harout, I know we already talk about this before. But need your help for his new certification sales total, is it fit enough to support the 80m-records claim? (http://www.cullmantimes.com/news/alan-jackson-joins-rock-the-south-lineup/article_d3d7b342-b149-11e4-b8f5-778be6d79c36.html)

What do you think? thanks. Politsi (talk) 10:21, 23 March 2015 (UTC)
 * Alan Jackson's certified sales are 46.9 million, all of which are coming from U.S. and some from Canada. But there are other sources that say he's sold 60 million records, which is more realistic based on his available certified sales. And since we use the lowest available claimed figures for this list, we should keep Alan Jackson off this list for now, at least until he passes the 60 million mark with his certified sales.--Harout72 (talk) 13:45, 23 March 2015 (UTC)

Rihanna's total album sales and track sales
Hi, yesterday, Rihanna's official website - http://www.rihannanow.com/bio/ - had an update on singer's total album and track sales. It's now 203 million tracks and 54 million albums sold worldwide. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 89.79.171.238 (talk) 17:51, 24 March 2015 (UTC)
 * No that's a primary source and not accepted. It should also be inline with her certifications.

Taylor Swift's claim sales
Harout, is this source reliable enough for her (http://www.sabc2.co.za/sabc/home/sabc2/news/details?id=6d433157-e4be-4e8b-bfe0-4bece0141b7a&title=Profile%20at%2025,%20Taylor%20Swift%20is%20moving%20fast)

same situation before about her 40m-albums and nearly 100m-singles. That source come from a South African Broadcasting Corporation.

What do you think? Thanks. Politsi (talk) 08:06, 21 March 2015 (UTC)
 * SABC seems to be reliable enough for us use that article, at least temporarily until something better comes along. What do others think? If there aren't objections we could move Swift up on the list using that source.--Harout72 (talk) 15:46, 21 March 2015 (UTC)
 * We can use this for the moment definitely. — Indian: BIO  [ ChitChat  ] 15:48, 21 March 2015 (UTC)
 * OK done.--Harout72 (talk) 18:23, 21 March 2015 (UTC)

Then we should change Taylor Swift's claim sales on her own Wiki Bio, because if we still let her old-110 million sales kept on her wikiBio. The better source for her new 140m-records will hardly comes along. And I will do it, IndianBio I need your help. Thanks Politsi (talk) 01:25, 23 March 2015 (UTC)

This source from the IFPI says Taylor Swift has sold 130 million songs and 40 million albums, but I don't know if it includes shipments or something, could somebody help me out? FredeGermanotta (talk) 19:22, 24 March 2015 (UTC)

Beyoncé 120 Million Records
What does Beyoncé need for a 120 million record claim? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2601:4A:8002:1A10:1994:34E5:1363:6132 (talk) 01:53, 31 March 2015 (UTC)

Okay, Beyoncé has sold 62 million records in the US alone.That's her reported claim. Can her sales finally be moved up? She has at least sold 20 million outside of the US, which would bring her career total to 80 million certified records. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2601:4A:8002:1A10:1994:34E5:1363:6132 (talk) 02:02, 31 March 2015 (UTC)

I subtracted her certified US sales [45.650 million] you have for her by her total sales [64.8 million] and got 19 million. If you add 19 million on to her new claimed US sales from billboard magazine, you'll get 81 million records.

I would like to note that that 62 million does not include mastertones. If you calculate her certifications off of RIAA's official website, Beyoncé has sold 11 mastertones. That would bring her record sales in the US to 73 million.

This also doesn't include her video sales; specifically longform videos. According to her certifications off of the RIAA's official website, she has over 1.1 million in longform videos. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2601:4A:8002:1A10:400C:65FB:9278:2F90 (talk) 18:03, 31 March 2015 (UTC)
 * For Beyonce's detailed certified sales, see this file. It includes certifications from all music markets including her U.S. certifications. All of her available certifications are on that file, also on the list. On the list, however, we include those music markets which have at least 100,000 certified units.--Harout72 (talk) 19:19, 31 March 2015 (UTC)

But Billboard -- a very reliable source -- reported that her US sales stand around 62 million (albums plus singles. Mastertones are not included). You have her total sales around 64 million. Is she not due for an update? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2601:B:B180:72D:B428:4360:3F54:4A67 (talk) 20:37, 31 March 2015 (UTC)


 * Billboard is reliable but those are actual sales figures. There appear to be lot of units that have yet to be certified. At the moment, Beyonce can be listed with maximum of 85 million claim as she needs her claims supported by 75.7% certified sales, because she's begun charting as a solo artist in 2002. If there is a reliable source that says she's sold 85 million records (albums, singles, videos), let us know, we'll update her claimed figure.--Harout72 (talk) 21:09, 31 March 2015 (UTC)

Mariah sales
Are Mariah's South Koreans sales calculated into her overall sales? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2601:B:B180:72D:7802:577:D3B:F80E (talk) 19:27, 24 March 2015 (UTC)
 * No, South Korea does not have any official certification body or links. Please read the top of this page to understand how the list is compiled. — Indian: BIO  [ ChitChat  ] 05:37, 25 March 2015 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 1 April 2015
Rihanna has sold 54million albums and 210 million digital tracks worldwide?

Meaning a total of 216million records sold?

Source: http://www.ncaa.com/marchmadness/musicfest/cokezerocountdown

82.14.201.156 (talk) 13:27, 1 April 2015 (UTC)
 * ❌ No she does not pass the certification threshold. Please read the header section to understand how this list is compiled. — Indian: BIO  [ ChitChat  ] 13:40, 1 April 2015 (UTC)

100 million to 119 million records Image Gallery
Shouldn't Jay-Z be ahead of Britney Spears and Rod Stewart in the Image Gallery based on his Certified Sales? He has 77.7 million in Certified sales, Spears has 77 million, and Stewart has 76 million. Additionally, all three have Claimed sales listed as 100 million, which makes his Certified sales the closest of the three to their Claimed sales. TJ 23:08, 31 March 2015 (UTC)
 * Yes, the third not the first as you had yesterday done in this edit.--Harout72 (talk) 23:51, 31 March 2015 (UTC)
 * That edit was made on misinformation you already corrected me on. It's why I followed your advice from my talk page and posted here instead of making the update I mentioned above myself. However, I see you have made the edit regarding the Image Gallery for the 100 million to 119 million records. Should I come across any viable information regarding updates for this article, I will continue to post here in the talk page first. TJ 04:32, 1 April 2015 (UTC)

New US sales
I saw in the edit history the Billboard article which posted artists total career US sales (verified by Nielsen, posted by Billboard). Was wondering if that article or its information could ever be accepted here, since it would increase the accuracy of this article for severely under-certified artists (eg. Beyoncé – 45.650M certified, 62M actual sales / Jay Z – 64.7M certified, 84.8M actual). Would that ever be possible (as it seems fair and articles of this nature which post real sales, let alone total career sales are rare), or is this article only ever going to be based on certifications? Thanks ThirdWard (talk) 16:25, 1 April 2015 (UTC)
 * Those are actual sales figures on Billboard, those cannot be accepted as we post certified sales only. Once Beyonce's record company submits the necessary fee to get whatever units still need to get certified, the gap between her U.S. certified sales and the actual sales will narrow down.--Harout72 (talk) 16:41, 1 April 2015 (UTC)
 * Thought so. It's a shame, since actual sales are much more reliable than certifications which can be manipulated with shipments/streaming or labels simply not certifying, but it is what it is and I understand! Unfortunately I cannot see either Beyoncé nor Jay Z's labels certifying 20 million's worth of mostly older records which need updating. ThirdWard (talk) 16:46, 1 April 2015 (UTC)

Mexican Singer with 100 million sold records
Juan Gabriel is a Mexican Singer who sold 100 million discos and he´s not in the list., you have to add him Wikipedia Search

You can add this Singer once you validate the information that you can see in Wikipedia

Search : Juan Gabriel https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Juan_Gabriel

Regards GerardoCavazosL (talk) 16:50, 4 April 2015 (UTC)
 * He has sold 30 million, as sourced here "Juan Gabriel is one of Mexico's most successful vocalists. A six-time Grammy nominee, Gabriel has sold 30 million copies of his albums and has performed sold-out concerts throughout the world." Murry1975 (talk) 17:46, 4 April 2015 (UTC)

Maroon 5
How much certified sales Maroon 5 have? how much do they need to be on the list? --Rudeby88 (talk) 00:07, 7 April 2015 (UTC)
 * I haven't gone over their available certified sales. But for 75 million claim, they'd need 56.7 million certified units as they've begun appearing on the charts in 2002. If there already are 75 million claims being published by reliable sources, let me know here, I'll take a look at their certified sales.--Harout72 (talk) 00:32, 7 April 2015 (UTC)
 * This source claims Maroon 5 has sold 23 million albums and 109 million singles worldwide. Placing the group at 132 million records sold. The source is a lifestyle and travel online magazine. If it is considered a credible source, would you be able to look into Maroon 5's certified sales to determine if they meet the eligibility for inclusion on the list. TJ 05:47, 28 April 2015 (UTC)
 * That's not really a reliable source. But for the figure stated in that source, 132 million, they would need 100 million certified units, as all those who've begun charting in 2002 are required to have 75.7% certified sales. Again, if the source were reliable, I'd go over their certified sales, but given the number of their U.S. certified units 26.2 million (8.5 million albums, 17.7 million singles), I'm pretty confident they'd be way below 100 million with their worldwide available certified sales.--Harout72 (talk) 13:15, 28 April 2015 (UTC)

Taylor Swift sold 170 million sales
Please change Taylor Swift's sales cause she had sold over 40 million albums and 130 million single for a total of 170 million claimed sales source:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taylor_Swift

212.124.168.106 (talk) 15:11, 7 April 2015 (UTC)
 * No. She hasn't. Read above to understand how this list works. — Indian: BIO  [ ChitChat  ] 15:34, 7 April 2015 (UTC)

Katy Perry's claim sales
Harout, I have to admit that her weird claim sales make the quality of the list not so reliable, i really hate she still stuck with her old 11m-albums and 81m-singles in this list.

I can not find a better claim sales for her.

Harout, I suggest we put her at the 100m-list with this source (Adweek/http://www.adweek.com/news/television/why-super-bowl-halftime-show-has-become-biggest-ad-all-162528) and I realize, we're not welcoming for nearing statement.

Adweek is come from the same company of Billboard magazine as well /Prometheus Global Media.

Harout, let's put her to the 100m-list. She deserve it, at least until we've got the better claim sales and source for her.

What do you think? thanks. Politsi (talk) 04:58, 13 April 2015 (UTC)
 * Politsi, I had rejected that source earlier. Nearly 100 million is again anything from 98.9 to 99.9 million maybe, but still not 100 million, correct? — Indian: BIO  [ ChitChat  ] 06:28, 13 April 2015 (UTC)


 * I know, but it makes me feel so weird seeing her 99.9m against 92 million. Why we not use it? like I said It's temporary. The better claim sales will come along after we actively updating their sales with some nearly reliable source. Politsi (talk) 08:16, 13 April 2015 (UTC)
 * No, I'm still against using something not concrete. For Taylor Swift we decided to use the South African channel source temporarily because it explicitly stated the content, which is not the case here. It might appear weird to us to see Katy's claims, but alas, we cannot bend Wikipedia's WP:OR rule to interpret. — Indian: BIO  [ ChitChat  ] 08:56, 13 April 2015 (UTC)

Britney'sales
Britney has sold 100 million ALBUMS, not records.....why Rihanna and Taylor are placed higher? They didn't sell so many albums. How does this list work?
 * if you can, read above the yellow boxes. — Indian: BIO  [ ChitChat  ] 06:15, 17 April 2015 (UTC)

I just don't think it's fair to put them on the same level. So in 5 years Taylor Swift will be higher than Mariah and Celine? Why not creating 2 different lists, one for songs sales and one for albums sales? That would be good. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 93.46.245.146 (talk) 09:41, 27 April 2015 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 7 May 2015
Taylor Swift: Claimed Sales are 170 millions according to Billboard: Source http://www.billboardmusicawards.com/2015/05/taylor-swift-bad-blood/ Enzo13TS (talk) 14:12, 7 May 2015 (UTC)


 * ❌ Certifications don't add up. Her 126.5 million certified sales can claim sales of 164 million. She's really close though and I believe very soon we can add this source for sales. — Indian: BIO  [ ChitChat  ] 14:17, 7 May 2015 (UTC)

New Kanye West numbers from Billboard
Billboards official award website has just updated Kanye's total records sold:

Kanye West, who yesterday received an honorary doctorate from the School Of The Art Institute of Chicago and was recently named by Time Magazine as one of the 100 most influential people in the world, has sold over 32 million albums and over 85 million digital tracks worldwide.

Which is a total of 117 million which is closer to his total certified.

Source: http://www.billboardmusicawards.com/2015/05/kanye-west-bbmas/ — Preceding unsigned comment added by JasonHull100 (talk • contribs) 13:16, 12 May 2015 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 12 May 2015
I am asking you to update this page, because some of the data are outdated and need improvement.

178.36.171.35 (talk) 17:49, 12 May 2015 (UTC)


 * The submitted question/request is unclear and/or not specific.--Harout72 (talk) 18:38, 12 May 2015 (UTC)

Bruno Mars
Bruno Mars has sold about 12 millions albums and over 68 millions singles, so together it's 80 millions. If featured songs should be counted, you should add about 25 millions sold singles.

178.36.171.35 (talk) 18:57, 12 May 2015 (UTC)


 * Red information icon with gradient background.svg Not done: as you have not cited reliable, independent sources (not his record company or management) to back up your request, without which no information should be added to, or changed in, any article. - Arjayay (talk) 19:04, 12 May 2015 (UTC)

Here is the page with the certifications: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bruno_Mars_discography


 * See this file for Bruno Mars' detailed certified sales. The list includes whatever's on that file, with an exception of Ireland and Brazil as the total certified sales for each is below 100,000 units.--Harout72 (talk) 21:57, 12 May 2015 (UTC)

Yes, his certified sales is about 71 millions, but his claimed sales is 80 millions. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 178.36.171.35 (talk) 11:31, 13 May 2015 (UTC)

New Kanye West numbers
Any reason the question before me and after me were answered however not mine? The source I've given is more official than the one already posted, it's from Billboard's official website. And the current number he has is even lower than what he's certified for.

This is the post:

'''Billboards official award website has just updated Kanye's total records sold:

Kanye West, who yesterday received an honorary doctorate from the School Of The Art Institute of Chicago and was recently named by Time Magazine as one of the 100 most influential people in the world, has sold over 32 million albums and over 85 million digital tracks worldwide.

Which is a total of 117 million

Source: http://www.billboardmusicawards.com/2015/05/kanye-west-bbmas/ '''

I don't see why this won't be updated other than personal bias? — Preceding unsigned comment added by JasonHull100 (talk • contribs) 23:20, 14 May 2015 (UTC)
 * We normally support claimed figures with articles published by news agencies. The figure in your source is just about right based on Kanye's certified sales (94 million), but Billboard Music Awards show isn't something we want to support our figures with. I'm sure that the same figure will soon be published by news services. Until then we should wait as his certified sales are only ahead of his claimed figure by some 7 million.--Harout72 (talk) 01:18, 15 May 2015 (UTC)

Okay, fair enough, than here are credible news sites reporting it as well:

https://www.thewrap.com/kanye-west-to-close-2015-billboard-music-awards/

http://tvbythenumbers.zap2it.com/2015/05/12/kanye-west-to-close-the-2015-billboard-music-awards-sunday-may-17-on-abc/402972/

It was a press release, not an exclusive Billboard thing. — Preceding unsigned comment added by JasonHull100 (talk • contribs) 05:05, 15 May 2015 (UTC)
 * Those are not news agencies.--Harout72 (talk) 15:37, 15 May 2015 (UTC)

Why is 75 million the minimum?
Is 25 or 50 million too low to qualify? Not many artists in the world can even break out of the 10 million mark, so I'd like to know why how it came down to just 75. - Zach Hontiveros Pagkalinawan (talk) 15:13, 16 May 2015 (UTC)
 * Why would any artists be on a list that is entitled "List of best-selling music artists" if they haven't sold at least 75 million? In fact, this list should start at 100 million, but I suppose capturing those just short of 100 million in sales is not a bad idea. 50 million for artists/bands is too low to be called one of the best selling artists.--Harout72 (talk) 15:33, 16 May 2015 (UTC)
 * Cutting those with 75 mill would be uncalled for. In fact, there should be 2 lists of 'best selling artists', one with artists before and the other with artists after the digital sales age. In a few years we will have many artists with who knows how many millions of records sold, maybe even 500+ million (albeit consisting of mostly digital singles), but that doesn't mean we should erase and forget the veteran acts with sales of 50 and 75 million. Just my 2 cents...Uncleangelo (talk) 17:43, 16 May 2015 (UTC)
 * I didn't suggest cutting out those with 75 million in sales, but I'm not sure why you're mentioning 50 million as our list starts at 75 million. Having two lists, however, as you suggest doesn't make sense I'm afraid. Whether artists' sales are based on Digital singles or Physical singles doesn't change the fact that some of them are selling their singles well, and others poorly. By the way, in many markets physical singles do still sell, and their certifications are based on combined sales of both Digital and Physical.--Harout72 (talk) 16:03, 16 May 2015 (UTC)
 * I mentioned 50 million as I know that this list started from that number but was cut down afterwards, so I can imagine that happening again with the artists with sales of 75 mill. Seeing how artists appear on this list after only a few years in business due to their digital singles sales, I can imagine the list being way too long in the near future so it would either have to be shortened (for example starting from 100 million as you suggested) leaving so many acts out of it, or being divided into 2 lists. And the 2nd option would be only fair because 30 years ago, artists with 50 million in records sales were considered among best selling.Uncleangelo (talk) 18:12, 16 May 2015 (UTC)

Maybe 30 years ago having sold some 50 million records was significant mainly because there didn't use to be as many artists in the history of the music industry as we have now. But I wouldn't worry about this list growing that fast due to Digital downloads. Lot of today's artists are short lived phenomenons, will not be able to maintain consistent sales for many years as the artists in the past have managed to do so. Digital sales have been very strong for at least 7-8 years now, the last artists that were added to our list are Bruno Mars and Robbie Williams back in January 2015, only the first one's sales being generated by the Digital downloads.--Harout72 (talk) 16:46, 16 May 2015 (UTC)
 * When there was a discussion about this limit a while back I suggested 100 million as the minimum, and I still think it should be 100. There are simply too many artists who've sold 75 million.--  Krystaleen  00:33, 17 May 2015 (UTC)
 * There are not that many artists to be honest in that category, and besides, 75 or 95 million is an achievement too, so the artists in that category should be present. There should either be 2 lists or they should be kept in this one. If you go by that logic, the list will be too long anyway in 5 years, as it will feature more digital era artists and less the original acts which sold physical records, and the list will kind of lose its purpose of being a historic ENCYCLOPEDIA article. Uncleangelo (talk) 12:12, 17 May 2015 (UTC)

Rihanna Record Sales
Can you please change the number of records sold by Rihanna, as the number as now increased, according to her website, it says that she has sold 210 million records sold - thus she should be bumped up to the second category. I've linked to her website here: http://www.rihannanow.com/bio/ the specific quote is in her 'bio' page and says "it’s hard to believe that rihanna is only 27 years old. yet within the 9 years since the start of her musical career, she’s become the youngest solo artist to score 13 no. 1 singles on the billboard hot 100—the fastest to do so—she’s sold more than 54 million albums and 210 million tracks worldwide."

Thanks!

194.82.50.5 (talk) 23:03, 19 May 2015 (UTC)
 * The claimed figures on this list must be supported by reliable sources, news agencies preferably. However, this list also requires all artists to have certain amount of certified sales for their claimed figures, based on the first year they've begun charting. Rihanna would need her claimed figures supported by 76.7% certified sales as she's begun charting in 2005. For a claim as high as 210 million, she'd need 161.1 million certified units, but hers is still 125.8 certified units.--Harout72 (talk) 01:14, 20 May 2015 (UTC)

Kylie Minogue
Hello. If I could, I'd like to ask how many certified units of Kylie Minogue's records have been sold to date? Thank you in advance and greetings. DR  Talk  23:15, 19 May 2015 (UTC)
 * Kylie Minogue's available certified sales are only 22.1 million.--Harout72 (talk) 01:23, 20 May 2015 (UTC)

Jennifer Lopez
I Found some sources that say she sold 75 million records. As she began her carrer in 1999 I would like to know how much certified sales she have and if are enough for 75 million claim. --24.139.120.225 (talk) 05:39, 20 May 2015 (UTC)
 * mirror.co.uk
 * Fox.com
 * abc.go
 * For 75 million claim, Lopez would need 54 million certified units as her claimed figures need to be supported by 72% certified sales. Her certified sales currently stand at 31.6 million.--Harout72 (talk) 05:48, 20 May 2015 (UTC)

Taylor Swift
Please change Taylor Swift's sales from 140 million to 170 million because she has sold 40 million albums and 130 million song downloads

78.134.58.133 (talk) 14:46, 21 May 2015 (UTC)
 * When she reaches 131 million with her certified sales, we can. I'm guessing that can happen in a few weeks.--Harout72 (talk) 15:04, 21 May 2015 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 22 May 2015
What about Coldplay, Linkin Park, Maroon 5, Christina Aguilera and Usher?

178.36.51.242 (talk) 12:09, 22 May 2015 (UTC)
 * Be specific with your question.--Harout72 (talk) 13:13, 22 May 2015 (UTC)

I've heard Coldplay's sold over 90 million records, Usher over 65 million albums. I'm not a fan so I don't know exactly how much   all of them have sold but I think some of them should be on this list.

Michael Jackson
Hello. I know this list has its own rules and I know you try to be possibly most reliable and professional, but the majority of really reliable sources still cite 750 million records figure sold by Michael Jackson (example: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/magazine/8170429.stm). As I know, you're adding ONLY information from reliable sources and which are closest to artists' available certified units (which is justified in my opinion), but I think there should be add (maybe as note next to M. Jackson name) information about that (as it is written in his specific article), because many people who will read this list and could be confused (due to the fact 750 million figure is really common in media) and this kind of note will be able to explain that. So please, if I could ask, add to Michael Jackson note explaining that question. I think it will be useful and at the same time compatible with the list's rules. Thank you. NairdaShadow (talk) 00:33, 24 May 2015 (UTC)
 * Well, I think the list's rules say enough as to why the 750 million claim isn't being used. Once a reader goes over the lead part of the list, they should be clear on how things are done here. Most artists on the list have higher published claimed figures available than those that are being used here. So, we can't add notes for one artist and not add for others. Frankly, I don't think it's necessary.--Harout72 (talk) 01:29, 24 May 2015 (UTC)
 * Yes, I know it concerns most of artists, but I mean information about 750 million records sold is so common due to the fact it was published by Billboard, Rolling Stone, MTV, CNN, BBC etc. (It means most reliable sources) whence I've thought it could be add as note that The Wall Street Journal and Adrian Strain have told it is probably an inflated figure. I know your merits and magnitude of job You did to create this article and of course I just propose and please if You could think about this question, consider it and add this information due to its popularity (I think it might be useful for readers too). Thank You. :) NairdaShadow (talk) 13:54, 24 May 2015 (UTC)

Certified units and claimes sales
How is it possible that Katy Perry's and Kanye West's certified units are bigger than claimed sales? Shouldn't cartified units be at least as small as claimed sales?

178.36.51.242 (talk) 20:38, 24 May 2015 (UTC)
 * Red information icon with gradient background.svg Not done: Please read the introduction (lead) of the article, it explains how the totals are calculated. Mlpearc  ( open channel ) 21:13, 24 May 2015 (UTC)