Talk:List of best-selling music artists/Archive 32

Barbra Streisand
Barbra's record sale should be over 240 million,Barbra's cer is more than several time much as her peers',such as Cher,Donna,Tina,they also sold less than half of Barbra's. http://news.yahoo.com/katie-couric-interviews-barbra-streisand-about-partners-album-093204812.html Ironically, Streisand — the "Oscar-winning, Emmy-winning, Grammy-winning and Tony-winning performer who has sold 245 million albums worldwide — claims she doesn't love to sing"

http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2014/09/16/after-51-year-absence-barbra-streisand-takes-the-host-chair-at-the-tonight-show/

http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/live-feed/barbra-streisand-tonight-show-all-733023 "The singer-actress-director has sold more than 245 million albums worldwide and is one of only 16 people to have earned all four of the U.S.' major entertainment awards: Emmy, Grammy, Oscar and Tony (her Tony was an honorary award). "

http://www.news.com.au/entertainment/tv/karl-stefanovics-cringeworthy-moment-with-barbra-streisand-for-the-today-show-in-new-york/story-e6frfmyi-1227052558261 "Things lurched from bad to worse when he asked the entertainer, who has sold an estimated 245 million records worldwide and won a swag of awards, why she “makes people nervous”.

http://www.thehollywoodnews.com/2014/09/23/the-power-of-the-cross-media-artist/ "Known for her distinctive sound, Barbra Streisand is one of the best-selling artists of all time, with more than 245 million records sold worldwide"

http://musicweekly.asia/culture/news-culture/double-threat-10-famous-musicians-that-became-movie-stars The ever talented Barbara Streisand has had a successful career as a singer, actress, filmmaker and producer. Throughout a career that has lasted more than 60 years she has sold more than 245 million albums as well as collecting Oscar nominations or wins for Best Song (1976’s A Star Is Born), Best Picture (1991’s The Prince of Tides,” which she directed) and Best Actress (1968’s Funny Girl). - See more at: http://musicweekly.asia/culture/news-culture/double-threat-10-famous-musicians-that-became-movie-stars#sthash.NwdZSEtU.dpuf

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/home/books/article-2264026/Is-Barbra-Dame-Edna-disguise--HELLO-GORGEOUS-BECOMING-BARBRA-STREISAND-BY-WILLIAM-J-MANN.html "240 million:The number of records Barbra has sold worldwide" — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2001:250:3000:5C21:79AC:99E2:3B6:A8B4 (talk) 10:59, 23 May 2015 (UTC)
 * ❌ Clearly, clearly inflated to the power of infinity. Get a clue folks, don't trust record label posted numbers. — Indian: BIO  [ ChitChat ] 12:52, 23 May 2015 (UTC)

So Barbra's cer is more than several time much as her peers',such as Cher,Donna,Tina,but only sold more than 40 million?How could they sold 100 million?If Barbra only sold 145 million, their figures are inflated,why dou you use double standard for  that?And Barbra's record cer and chart performance both  several time much as her peers',could you tell me how Cher or Diana,Donna could sold  80 million outside US?


 * This list uses the lowest available published claimed figures. If you find reliable sources for Donna Summer and Tina Turner which claim lower records sales than current ones, let us know. Also, based on Barbra Streisand's available 97.1 million certified units, the 145 million records is just about right. As pointed out above by IndianBio, the 240 million is just an inflated figure given to all news agencies by Streisand's record company for promotional purposes. Until two years ago, news agencies were publishing 145 million records for Barbra. Had she sold 90 + million records over a period of two years, we would have seen huge number of newly issued Gold/Platinum awards by RIAA, BPI and all others. In fact, since then we've seen only very few certifications, all for the album Partners. RIAA issued Platinum-award (1,000,000 certified units) for her album Partners, BPI issued Platinum-award (300,000 units) for it, Canada issued Platinum-award (80,000 units), Australia issued Platinum (70,000 units), and a Gold from New Zealand (7,500 units). All in all 1.4 million certified units, which isn't enough to suggest that she's added 90 million to her total records sales.--Harout72 (talk) 16:19, 23 May 2015 (UTC)

So why abba have two number,100 million and 200 million,and AC/DC,Led Zeppelin's ?,You don't belive cer or chart performene,just make up with highest figures with others and for Brabra,lowest available published claimed figures.why dou you use double standard for that?. And who tell you 145 million wan't given by Streisand's record company for promotional purposes? Until six years ago, the same news agencies had been publishing 140 million albums for Barbra.So Barbra only sold 5 millin singe(which is even much less than her singels' sales only in US)? At least add 1.4 million certified units to it,it should be at least 146.4 million
 * Red information icon with gradient background.svg Not done for now: Re-activate if/when consensus is reached. Mlpearc  ( open channel ) 17:36, 23 May 2015 (UTC)

Having the high amount of certified records doesn't mean the sales are double or triple, it means the record company did their job and payed for those certifications. Just like it doesn't mean that if the artist has a lower certification figure the real sales are lower too. Hence why Diana or Dolly are not on the list. Cher has sold more than 50 million records in the US, even though the certified number is 22 million. Same goes for Tina. It means that many of the veteran artists have a lot of under-certified and unecertified records...Uncleangelo (talk) 17:43, 23 May 2015 (UTC)
 * Only small number of actual sales go under certified or uncertified at all. The certified sales are always an excellent source to rely on to determine where the approximate actual sales are. The record companies are anxious for their artists to reach Gold/Platinum award levels with their albums/singles, so they can jump in get those certified and use the awards when promoting upcoming materials.--Harout72 (talk)
 * It can be a good indicator for the artists of the last 25-30 years, but I'm afraid not of the artists in the 50s and 60s. Many labels did not want to pay for certifications even though the records reached or exceeded the sales tally. For example, Motown almost never payed for certifications by RIAA but issued their own Gold disks in the 60s. Only certain labels were anxious to certify all of their artists' records. There are tons of artists from the 60s who have albums which passed 500k or 1 mill but are not certified. It also happens today, some of Christina Aguilera's recent solo singles have not been certified (Show Me How You Burlesque, Your Body, Just a Fool) and they all passed 500k in the US. Her greatest hits album passed that number years ago as well but remains un-certified almost a decade after its release.Uncleangelo (talk) 14:43, 24 May 2015 (UTC)
 * Uncleangelo, we should probably discuss this in a new thread, we're moving away from the main topic here. But certifications are excellent indicator not for the past 25-30 years of releases, for the past 40 years. But even Diana Ross has albums from the 60s released on Motown that are certified, Diana Ross & The Supremes Join The Temptations, TCB. The Temptations also have albums from the 60s released on Motown that are certified, Puzzle People, Cloud Nine, Greatest Hits. Another band named Rare Earth has their 1966 album certified Get Ready. As for Christina Aguilera, almost all of Aguilera's albums/singles that have reached a certification-levels have been certified. Some albums/singles are certified late because record companies pay the fee to certify only when they see those albums/single are not going to sell anymore. Record companies can pay a single fee and get albums/single/videos certified for multiple sales levels, that's the reason why they submit the fee very late for lot of the records.--Harout72 (talk) 15:20, 24 May 2015 (UTC)

Cher has sold more than 50 million records in the US, even though the certified number is 22 million? It's inflated.Barbra have more under-certified and unecertified records than them,As you said,just like it doesn't mean that if the artist has a 91.5 million certification figure the real sales are 145 million .All artists included on this list, which have begun charting on official albums/singles charts have their available claimed figure(s) supported by at least 20% in certified units,Barbra is one of them. Why abba have two number,100 million and 200 million,and AC/DC,Led Zeppelin's ?,You don't belive cer or chart performene,just use highest figures with others and lowest available published claimed figures for Brabra,.why dou you use double standard for that?.Tsame news agencies had been publishing 140 million albums for Barbra,so you used 5 million sales for Barbra' singles?
 * ❌ Pov pushing, IP hopping  Mlpearc  ( open channel ) 05:05, 25 May 2015 (UTC)

It's impossible Barbra only sold 5 million singles worldwide,she sold more than 15 million singles in the US alone,it may underestimate Barbra's sales, why not add another figure from some other sources have claimed.
 * ❌ Streisand's claimed figures, the 145 million, nowhere mentions anything about 5 million singles. It clearly states 145 million record sales, that is for albums, single and videos. Also, the section where Streisand is placed, uses only one claimed figure.--Harout72 (talk) 07:47, 25 May 2015 (UTC)

This is for the unsigned Barbra fan - if you were a fan of Tina, Cher, Diana and other veteran female artists you would know their estimated sales on the ground of charting performance and not certifications. Do you really think that Look at Us (debut album of Sonny and Cher) which spent 8 weeks at #2 on the albums chart and is certified Gold, only sold 500k? It sold more than 2.5 million copies in the US alone. Same goes for a lot of Cher's solo records, as well as for Tina Turner and Ike and Tina (who have so many albums and don't have any certifications in the US yet the sum of the sales is in millions). Cher's record sales in the US add up to more than 50 million, probably over 55 million with the digital singles downloads, and you are welcome to do the hard work and do the math, and stop looking at certifications. Same goes for Diana, did you @Harout see when the Diana Ross and the Supremes' records were certified? One album in 1986, and the rest in 1997 and 1999, and not in the 1960s as I explained. Motown did start certifying her work in the early 80s but not before that. All in all, you CANNOT judge the sales of the majority of veteran acts by their certifications. Uncleangelo (talk) 14:43, 24 May 2015 (UTC)


 * Uncleangelo, it is also possible that Motown began certifying the 60s albums in the 90s because those albums had not reached the necessary sales levels to be qualified/certified as Gold. Do you happen to have official sales figures for those albums coming from Billboard's archives that prove that they had long reached certification levels but hadn't been certified? Also I don't mean to make this discussion any longer than it already is, but how do you land at 55 million in sales for Cher? Maybe you can open up a new thread on this very talk page for that and post the figures with sources. I'm very anxious to see what is exactly not being captured by certified sales including the 2.5 million in sales for Look at Us.--Harout72 (talk) 16:10, 25 May 2015 (UTC)


 * Many Cher fans have made estimations of her record sales over the years according to the weeks spent on the Billboard charts and they are more or less the same - over 50 million. If an album, which is not certified at all, spends 64 weeks on the Billboard 200, does it mean it sold 0 copies, or as in the case of The Best of Sonny and Cher from 1967 which spent that many weeks and reached #23, sold an estimated 750k while on the charts, probably more in the following years. Or her 1999 Geffen compilation which is certified Gold but as reported by Billboard in 2010 sold 960k and is most probably over 1 mill by now. Her Live in Concert video spent 79 weeks on the video chart and is not certified at all, and so on. Look at Us sold/shipped 800k after 6 weeks after its release, here's the link to Billboard article https://books.google.co.ve/books?id=HCkEAAAAMBAJ&pg=PA4&dq=sonny+cher+look+at+us+copies&hl=en&sa=X&ei=O9FuU7XtKtHQsQTNrYDgCQ#v=onepage&q=sonny%20cher%20look%20at%20us%20copies&f=false so the over 2 million estimate is very much realistic and true. Anyway, my point was that people shouldn't expect that the certifications should equal sales for all the artists, especially from 50s and 60s, because the music business was still very 'young' at the time and the labels were not in need to certify every record which sold well but to put out more records so they would make money, it was later that they discovered the certifications also help to promote and sell.Uncleangelo (talk) 00:36, 26 May 2015 (UTC)


 * If an album spends 64 weeks on the chart and never gets certified, it doesn't mean 0 amount of sales, but it also doesn't mean it could reach a Gold status. Lot of albums spend many weeks on the chart, but most of the weeks off the Top-20, therefore, they don't sell enough to reach certification-levels. In order to rely on weeks spent on charts, one needs to know exactly how many thousands in sales a particular chart-slot has generated in the year an album or a single has appeared. Each year that the same chart slot will generate a different amount of sales due to changes in economy. So in the end it'll be impossible to have an approximate figure by following that technique. But based on the one source you've provided for Look at Us, I have to agree that the total sales for that album should at least be around 1.5 million, since it spent some 13 weeks in the Top-10. I'm not sure about the 2.5 million though. Anyways, I was hoping that you might have individual sales figures for Cher's earlier albums/singles, just like the figure for Look at Us, but I guess not. Unfortunately, without those, we cannot discredit certified sales entirely. But I do agree that some albums/singles are under certified.--Harout72 (talk) 23:51, 25 May 2015 (UTC)
 * I have individual estimations but I can't see the point of stating them all, my point was that there are artists with records which spent weeks on the chart and continued to sell when off the chart as well, so looking at certifications alone is not a realistic indicator for the artists from 60, 50 and 40 years ago. I used examples which are enough to illustrate my point, and here's another one - Cher's unofficial double compilation Gold sold 90k by 2010 and it never charted, the figure was reported by music Yahoo editor and it's an example of how sometimes even the charts are not an indicator of some records' performance. Fans who did the estimations have their own methods and have used many sources, they compared the album's or single's performance to the records charting at the time which were certified so the estimations are pretty realistic. When some artists last as long as Tina, Cher or Diana, with majority of their records released before 1991, their record sales are not easily traceable as with the post-soundscan artists. I just reacted because the list is already in a way 'discriminating' towards some veteran acts who don't have enough certified sales, so it's uncalled for to make allegations that the sales of the ones who do have enough certifications to be included (Tina, Cher, Donna Summer, Berry White) are inflated. Uncleangelo (talk) 00:36, 26 May 2015 (UTC)

Rihanna's Origin
Please change Rihanna's origin from Barbados and the United States to just Barbados.

She does not come from the United States, she just moved there when she was sixteen and has been living there since - there is no other relation. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.14.201.156 (talk) 20:26, 3 June 2015 (UTC)
 * The origin here isn't meant to indicate where artists were born, or the nationality as you think. The listed countries for origin are to indicate where artists' professional careers have begun, which should only be USA, in the case of Rihanna.--Harout72 (talk) 23:35, 3 June 2015 (UTC)

Release-year?
This is not a compound word.

It's 'release year'.

Pls. correct.

--82.41.251.96 (talk) 14:53, 7 June 2015 (UTC)

Robbie Williams to 75m-records sales?
Harout, need your advise. What do you think if we change William's claim sales to 75m-records by using this source (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-3082482/As-singer-s-bride-accused-sexually-harassing-male-aide-meet-wife-s-WILDER-Robbie-Williams.html)

Need your advised. Thanks Politsi (talk) 19:01, 9 June 2015 (UTC)
 * I don't think we need to change it, the difference between this and the one the list's using is only 2 million units.--Harout72 (talk) 00:05, 10 June 2015 (UTC)

Bruno Mars to 80m-List
Harout, need your help and advised. Even only a mere 1 million different. But I think we should bring him to the 80m-list because his certification sales are too high in the 75m-list.

We can use this source (http://www.madhyamam.com/en/open-talk/2014/dec/30/michael-jackson-making) from an Indian newspaper published in Malayalam language but that source being published in English version.

What do you think? Thanks. Politsi (talk) 18:42, 9 June 2015 (UTC)
 * I updated Bruno Mars' claimed figure.--Harout72 (talk) 00:18, 10 June 2015 (UTC)

Kanye West
Harout, need your advise. Is it an online news like this (http://guardianlv.com/2015/05/kanye-west-his-career-and-controversey-at-the-billboard-awards/) is adequate being considered as a reliable source?

Because we can use it for West's new claim sales at 121 million.

What do you think? Thanks. Politsi (talk) 19:30, 27 May 2015 (UTC)
 * thumb rule regarding sources like this. Always check if they have an article on Wikipedia or not. — Indian: BIO  [ ChitChat ] 05:44, 28 May 2015 (UTC)

Indian Bio and Harout, need your advised. Is it possible for Kanye West to reach the 121 million sales with his certification units? and this source (http://thechicagocitizen.com/news/2015/may/27/kanye-west-gives-dondas-house-largest-donation-eve/) come from one of Newspapers of the Chicago metropolitan area. Is it reliable enough to support that claim? at least for temporary until the better one comes along?

What do you think? Thanks.Politsi (talk) 18:14, 9 June 2015 (UTC)

Harout? I need your help, what do you think?. Thanks 103.28.21.21 (talk) 08:51, 10 June 2015 (UTC)
 * I updated his claimed figure with that source you found, but if you later find a better one, replace it.--Harout72 (talk) 14:19, 10 June 2015 (UTC)

Thanks and of course I keep on eye with it, and who can do that better than me. Politsi (talk) 17:18, 12 June 2015 (UTC)

New Lady Gaga's RIAA certifications update
So, a few days ago, Lady Gaga's record label updated some of her US certifications, which added a total of 11 million more certified units to her total certified sales, so I updated her certified US sales, so I guess that now her claimed sales could increase from 80 million to 91 million? FredeGermanotta (talk) 18:35, 9 June 2015 (UTC)
 * She now can be listed with claimed figures as high as 95 million as she needs her claimed figures supported by 77.9% certified sales. Her current certified sales are 74.4 million units.--Harout72 (talk) 00:22, 10 June 2015 (UTC)

Ok, thanks, I've listed her with claimed sales of 95 million. FredeGermanotta (talk) 18:46, 10 June 2015 (UTC)
 * But where do you see that this source says anything about 95 million sales? The source provided for claimed figure must support the listed claim sales.--Harout72 (talk) 01:39, 11 June 2015 (UTC)

OMG, so I have to find a random source where it says she has sold 95 million? I think this system is a little lame. FredeGermanotta (talk) 01:49, 11 June 2015 (UTC)
 * Not a random source, a reliable source. You're not familiar with Verifiability?--Harout72 (talk) 02:04, 11 June 2015 (UTC)

Harout, I will put Lady Gaga with 87m-records claim by using this source (http://edition.cnn.com/2013/05/26/business/lady-gaga-business-route-to-the-top/) and when her certification able to support 100m or more, I will find the reliable source to support it. Politsi (talk) 17:48, 12 June 2015 (UTC)

Edit request about ABBA
ABBA have sold over 300 million records, but the artricle says only 100-200. I suggest changing that, but I'm not so skillful on editing on the english wiki. Referances - 370 million, 300+ million.

Taylor Swift to 170m-records
I added some certifications for the phillipines, and ireland and other asian countries also her UK sales were at 6.3m in 2014 according to the OCC can we use that figure instead of the 5.4m figure? Harout, since her certification has reach nearly 131 million. I think we should bring and raise her claim sales to 170m-records.

I still didn't see a very prestigious reliable source to support that claim but we could use this source at least for temporary until I find the better one (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/wires/aap/article-3098726/Ten-reasons-Taylor-Swift-fierce.html)

What do you think?. Thanks Politsi (talk) 18:02, 12 June 2015 (UTC)
 * We can do that very soon, 600,000 more certified units. Who knows, until then a better source may be born.--Harout72 (talk) 00:05, 13 June 2015 (UTC)
 * Hello Harout72 and Politsi. Here are some better sources:
 * http://www.billboardmusicawards.com/2015/05/taylor-swift-bad-blood/
 * http://www.ifpi.org/news/Taylor-Swift-named-IFPI-global-recording-artists-of-2014
 * http://www.music-news.com/ShowNews.asp?nItemID=87484
 * http://abc.go.com/shows/billboard-music-awards/news/press-releases/2015-billboard-music-awards-open-world-premiere-of-taylor-swifts-bad-blood-music-video-05072015
 * דיידרים (talk) 06:21, 24 June 2015 (UTC)

Maroon 5
Harout, need your help. Actually how many of their grand total certification units so far. Is it reliable enough to support... let's say 127m-records? (http://www.seagovillegazette.com/2015/01/24/maroon-5-coming-to-dallas-on-feb-16/)

I'm still working to look the most reliable source for their claim but need your help for information how far as their can reach a claim sales.

Need your help. Thanks Politsi (talk) 07:58, 15 June 2015 (UTC)
 * They would need 96.1 million certified units for that claim as their claims must be supported by at least 75.7% certified sales. Their U.S. certified sales are only 22.7 million, I'm quite certain, their worldwide certified sales are not more than 50 million, but I will go over them all just to be sure. In the meantime, if you come across a source that claims 75 million for them, let me know. Because clearly they cannot be listed with anything more than that at this point.--Harout72 (talk) 13:29, 15 June 2015 (UTC)


 * found one source saying Maroon 5 sold 75 million -- http://literock969.com/first-of-ac-summer-beach-concerts-announced/ — Preceding unsigned comment added by Joshay.16 (talk • contribs) 03:55, 26 June 2015 (UTC)
 * That does not seem to be a reliable source Joshay. — Indian: BIO  [ ChitChat ] 05:12, 26 June 2015 (UTC)

Katy Perry
Don't know if this has been brought up before, but her claimed sales are under her certified sales, which is kind of odd. Should a more updated reliable source be used instead? Bobtinin (talk) 18:58, 28 June 2015 (UTC)

How does it work?
If certified units will increase, for example, by one million, shouls claimed sales also automatically increase by one million?


 * Not necessarily, if you look at the top of the page it will show you the percentage ratios. You must use articles with reliable sources to think about changing it. If the article matches the prerequisites to change the numbers then sure you can change it (after consulting the talk page), but you can't be adding 1 mil to the claimed sales each time the certified increases by 1 mil. By the way, you should use a signature at the end of each entry you make. To do this, type in 4 tildes together or the pen at the top when you make a new entry. Bobtinin (talk) 19:09, 28 June 2015 (UTC)

In the whole world or only in America and Western Europe?
If I check the notes I get a list of countries in the Western world. Whole continents are not represented on the list. Africans maybe not buying much albums, but I have never been in an African country where not (illegal copied?) cassette bands of black artist were sold in any street corner: Michael Jackson, Bob Marley, Stevie Wonder, etc, and African artists big in Africa. India, China, Indonesia are countries with very big populations, but nobody seems to count what music people there are buying. At least one Indian singer, made popular by Bollywood, should be on a worldwide list. And all over the world where there are tourists and some restaurants and beach bars you hear Bob Marley and The Wailer when you take a walk. This Wikipedia list is widely copied on Internet as "Best selling artists in the world", so it would be honest to state in the article that the list only show albums that have been verifiable sold in a selection of rich countries, which represents a minority of the world's population. --Caspiax 10:59, 30 June 2015 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Caspiax (talk • contribs)
 * We only look at the certifications of those countries that cover over 90% of the Global music sales. For the sizes of the music markets see Global music industry market share data.--Harout72 (talk) 12:59, 30 June 2015 (UTC)

Pink
What about Pink? Wikipedia says that she' sold 40 million albums and 70 million singles. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 178.36.48.115 (talk) 21:52, 2 July 2015 (UTC)

Formatting Error
The 'See Also', 'Notes' and 'References' sections have not been placed at the end of the article, instead they are in the Scorpions' 'Claimed sales' cell. Seems like a simple case of missing end tags.

Barry chuckle21 (talk) 21:16, 2 July 2015 (UTC)


 * Yes check.svg Done, thanks! &#8209; El Hef  ( Meep? ) 21:56, 2 July 2015 (UTC)

Abba
The claimed sales for ABBA are somewhat off and based on mediocre/apparently uninformed sources. Aside from the general problems with claimed/uncertified sales, there are plenty of proper sources for Abba sales in 360-400 million range, in fact at the 5 year anniversary of mamma mia (2004), Polydor represented them with a special certificate/prize for having sold 360 million records. That was over 10 years ago, taking to account that they still several million recordings every year (globally according to Reuters), we end end up somewhere between 360 and 400 million and indeed proper newspaper sources did report such figures repeatedly (Die Welt 2013, >380 million, The Telegraph 2014, >360 Million, ABC 2004, >360 Million, The Age 2005, >360 million, Billboard 2008, >350 million, Rock'n'Roll Hall of Fame, esimates up to 350 million, Express 2011, >375 million, Biilboard/AP 2012, > 400 million, BBC 2014, >400 million, Rock'n'Roll's Strangest Moments: Extraordinary But True Tales from 45 Years of Rock & Roll History - book 2014, estimate from 140 to 500 million,[http://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/music/news/my-my-abbas-agnetha-fltskog-scales-new-heights-of-uk-chart-success-with-new-album-a-8623487.html The Independent 2015, >370 million). Why they have been ignored here and been replaced by in doubt more mediocre sources with lower figures is beyond me.--Kmhkmh (talk) 19:30, 3 July 2015 (UTC)
 * News papers never do their own research, they publish what they get from artists' record companies. And all of the figures you're posting above are outragously inflated. Yes, there are some albums, singles that have gone uncertified or under certified, but we certainly don't have over 300 million records that have gone uncertified. Just to let you know, this list uses the claimed figures that are closer to artists' certified sales.--Harout72 (talk) 21:35, 3 July 2015 (UTC)
 * Actually is not true at all, there are plenty of uncertified sales on a global scale in particular 40 years ago. I don't quite see, why those numbers seem outrageously inflated to you. They are actually fairly consistent with what has been reported over the years. If you look at reporting from the late 70s/early 80s, then you often see Abba described as the best selling group of that time (with figures in the 200 to 250 million range). This completely consistent in relation to the 360-400 figure for today and the sales of other successful bands of that time say AC/DC or Led Zeppelin. Also note in particular for artists/bands who where globally successful and less driven by the US market the difference between certified sales and actual estimated global sales tends to be large.
 * Lastly the article needs to make up its mind and take a consistent approach. It is perfectly fine to compile a list based on certified sales only. However if one includes "claimed sales" then one actually needs to report what somewhat "reliable"/reputable sources news outlets report. What one should not (strictly speaking according to WP policy cannot) do is to cherry pick from (often less reputable) external sources, so that the figures match one's personal notion or conviction of a good or realistic estimate. Or to put it this way either the article reports claimed sales properly or it shouldn't report them at all.--Kmhkmh (talk) 22:01, 3 July 2015 (UTC)
 * ABBA's global success mainly began in 1974-1975 when all key music markets had certification systems including UK, France (1973), Germany, Canada (1975), not to mention the U.S. has been certifying records since 1958. Those five markets alone represent over 55% of Global music sales, and all five do offer their certifications online going back to the very beginning of when they launched their certification systems. There is no cherry picking involved here, those are inflated figures. 350-400 million in sales do not vanish that easily. Had ABBA really sold 350-400 million records worldwide, we would have had at least 125-150 million in certified sales. Based on their extremely low certified sales, 58 million, even the 200 million seems like a stretch. We've all seen inflated figures being tossed about for all artists by their record companies for promotional reasons, it's nothing new.--Harout72 (talk) 22:48, 3 July 2015 (UTC)
 * There are three issues here.
 * First of all, why it is fine to discuss and personally  the reliability of various published figures on the talk page, it is as far as the article content is a case of WP:OR. WP states what the (majority of the reputable) sources say and not simply an individual or cherry pick one that you consider to be correct based on your personal assessment. The four sources you cite for your preferred figure are in terms of reputation (or reliability) inferior to most sources I've listed above and since their estimate widely differ this is clearly cherry picking.
 * Second the computation you do doesn't really hold up, you can easily sell 400 million records in 45 % of the global market, that is without selling a single certified record. So you cannot really make a general argument of simply multiplying the certified sales by a factor 2-3 to get a global estimate. That is highly depending on the specific context and market of the particular group.
 * Lastly WP articles are supposed to stick what the sources say. Polydor might or might not have inflated the sales figures it has published. As far as WP content is concerned that requires a specific source not just a broad general statement. Other it is like arguing, we all know that politician lie, so obviously politician X is not telling the truth on subject A (because I don't believe him). That's a no-go for WP, either it has a source or it is out. What you can do however is using attribution or qualifiers if a claim questionable to you, so write something like according to the bbc or according to the label polydor. But you cannot simply pick some hardly known local US paper while ignoring what the BBC, Associated Press, CNN, ABC or various major newspapers state (guardian, telegraph, die Welt). You may attribute them but you cannot simplybforego them.
 * --Kmhkmh (talk) 00:33, 4 July 2015 (UTC)

Sources are either reliable or unreliable, and our sources are reliable. Even the reliable sources publish incorrect information, therefore, in our case, the sales figures must be scrutinized. And there is nothing wrong with that and it's allowed. Read up Context matters. There is no personal assessment or Original research involved here, all certified sales are supported by reliable sources. And you're speculation "you can easily sell 400 million records in 45 % of the global market, that is without selling a single certified record" is just plain ridiculous. You obviously don't have the slightest idea as to how the music sales are generated. You don't sell 400 million records without having sold most of it in the largest and/or the key music markets. And when you do sell that number of records, you automatically have countless number of Gold and Platinum awards. This is Music Market Operation 101. You seem to be fond of CNN and the likes, well, CNN published two completely different claimed sales for Michael Jackson, 750 million in March 2009, later it published 350 million in June 2009. Both were reported not far from each other. That is why sales figures must always be carefully weighed.--Harout72 (talk) 01:21, 4 July 2015 (UTC)
 * You misunderstood me somewhat and I'm not sure whether you understood my point. First as far "you can easily sell 400 million records in 45 % of the global market, that is without selling a single certified record" - I agree that "easily" might be pushing it a bit, however that was essentially a statistical/math argument. Meaning mathematically you can generate 400 million sales in 45% of the market, whether that is particularly likely is another question, which depends on the specific global sales distribution of an artist. If you argue you cannot sale 400 million without selling the bulk of it in the biggest market, then you essentially assume a globally uniform distribution which works for some artists while for others it is a fundamentally flawed assumption.
 * As far as CNN and Michael Jackson is concerned. I'm neither particularly fond of CNN (on the contrary imho their reporting has become rather lousy over the last decade but that hasn't really much to do with reporting on the music industry) nor do I care about Michael Jackson for the moment. I'm aware about his disputed figures and the problem of figures in general. However right now we are neither discussing Jackson figures nor problems in general but Abba's claimed estimates.
 * Speaking of the latter I still see not seeing any justification or reason why you'd pick figures published by The Arizona Republic and The Register Citizen Newspaper over those published by The BBC, Associated Press, CNN, The Telegraph, The Guardian, Die Welt or even a book on rock/pop history.
 * Also taking a closer look at some of the actual certified figures, I'm having trouble understanding them. That is how they are exactly compiled and how that is matching other data presumably from certified sources. Am I correct to assume that you've compiled what was available in the cited online databases? In any case for the UK the article currently lists roughly 16 million certified record sales for ABBA. However I already get 16 million by adding the (certified) UK sales for the Dancing Queen single and the Gold album alone (11+5, see ,) with actual figures for all certified) records being somewhere in the 25-30 million range. What am I missing here?--Kmhkmh (talk) 02:26, 4 July 2015 (UTC)


 * All best-selling music artists sell 90-95% of their records (albums, singles, videos) in some 30-35 markets, that includes U.S, U.K., Germany, France, Canada, Australia and others. I've been analyzing artists' music sales for years now, so I'm really not having this discussion based on assumption as you suggest above. Artists/bands like AC/DC, Led Zeppelin, Pink Floyd, and others are where they are by having done extremely well in all larger and medium sized music markets. The example of CNN for Michael Jackson wasn't meant to discuss sales of one artist, I merely tried to point out that the fact that some news agencies have been named more prestigious than others, doesn't immediately make them flawless on consistent basis. They all make errors including all of the ones you are naming above, including BBC which in October 2012 claimed 200 million records for ABBA, and in April of 2014, claimed 400 million. When it comes to record sales, one should never believe the figures blindly, this can only be determined by bringing certified sales in. Certified sales work well for all those artists that have begun charting after 1973-1975. As for ABBA's detailed available certified sales, see this document. If you have problems understanding the certification-levels, let me know I'll provide sources for them. We also have lot of sources at the Notes section.--Harout72 (talk) 05:28, 4 July 2015 (UTC)
 * I don't argue for believing any figures blindly (not even certified ones), I'm not even arguing the 400 million figure to be correct, but I'm arguing to report what the sources without cherry picking.
 * The document you've linked is a private compilation and as a source for the WP completely unusable. However the sources it referenced in might be acceptable, but they are not to believed blindly either. Hence my question how exactly did you (or whoever) compile them (online access through websites websites given?). But more importantly you did not not explain why that data differs from the British chart sources I linked above. The sales figure for the Dancing Queen single alone for instance differs by a factor of 2 (see ! What I'm supposed to make of that?
 * Looking at the source I originally linked above in my earlier posting, I must correct myself it provided the overall sales for the UK until 2012 not singles. However it gives 11 million for Abba where the WP article compiled 16 million. It also gives 22 million for the Beatles where the WP article give only 12. Which begs the question how reliable the compilations of the WP article are.
 * Take another example. Look at the certified sales for France (allegedly since 1973) it gives 2.75 million which might look reasonable look at first glance, but then look at the records which have contributed to that figure, they are only singles and compilation albums. There is not even single one of the regular 8 studio albums in there, so unless you seriously believe that Abba didn't sell any studio albums in France at all, it seems rather obvious that this data is junk. So either the data in certified sales is rather incomplete or a rather large part of french record sales after 1973 didn't get certified for whatever reason. Bringing in certified sales becomes almost pointless if they are not compiled properly.
 * Also you didn't answer my other question from above, why you've picked the somewhat peculiar The Arizona Republic and The Register Citizen Newspaper for the claimed figures.
 * --Kmhkmh (talk) 07:03, 4 July 2015 (UTC)


 * The Document for Certified sales isn't meant to be used directly in articles, it is for my personal use and I also use them on discussion pages. I keep similar documents for literally hundreds of artists. But the sources the certifications are retrieved from are highly reliable, and the certified sales are posted in the article supported by those sources. The Gold/Platinum certifications have certain levels in each music market, and you need to know them in order to convert the Gold/Platinum awards into figures. In the U.S. for example, the levels are these. For U.K. see this, for Germany see this. For France you can visit SNEP. You can also find many of the sources posted at our Notes section.
 * The sales figures that you have here for singles are worldwide sales figures, the figures for British top selling singles are here, and there are other sources too. The single "Dancing Queen" has sold 1 million units in the UK. As for your second source, which states 5.1 million for ABBA's Gold Greatest Hits, that album is certified in the UK 14x Platinum for 4.2 million (14x 300,000 units). It can now be re-certified as 16x Platinum, it might take some time, but it eventually will.
 * The reason why the studio albums aren't certified in France is most likely because those albums have not quite reached the certification-levels in France, in other words, albums had to sell 100,000 units in France until June 2006 to be certified as Gold.
 * The sources that currently support ABBA's The Arizona Republic and The Register Citizen Newspaper are as good as any other reliable sources. The sources, by the way, often times are updated by other editors, I just make sure the old ones are replaced by reliable sources again.--Harout72 (talk) 13:52, 4 July 2015 (UTC)

Rihanna
Now that Rihanna has around 145 certified units, here is a source with a claim of 190 million records that we can use for now. I know it's not perfect but, it's not bad either. She definitely deserves updating from 150 mil. — Tom (T2ME) 22:29, 1 July 2015 (UTC)

I have another source that said she sold 191 million records. link --24.139.120.225 (talk) 00:29, 2 July 2015 (UTC)

I saw that Rihanna certified sales are now 174.6 million. I have a source that says Rihanna has sold 230 million records. link --24.139.120.225 (talk) 01:23, 2 July 2015 (UTC)
 * Yes, Rihanna's claimed figure can now be updated, but we need a good source. This source comes from AXS TV, it's not something we want to support claimed figures with. Is there any other source that claims similar figure (190 million)?--Harout72 (talk) 01:41, 2 July 2015 (UTC)


 * nationmultimedia
 * newsok.com--24.139.120.225 (talk) 01:52, 2 July 2015 (UTC)

Harout, need your advise. Are you sure Rihanna's certification sales has been reach 174 million? This is weird. Need your explanation, thanks. Politsi (talk) 19:53, 6 July 2015 (UTC)

Bruno Mars
Bruno's certified units in United States is 51 million. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 178.36.52.207 (talk) 17:40, 6 July 2015 (UTC)

Anybody here? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 178.36.52.207 (talk) 13:11, 7 July 2015 (UTC)
 * Are you asking it or stating it in the first part of your post? Bruno Mars' U.S. certified sales are still 47 million including 4 million for albums, see this file.--Harout72 (talk) 13:23, 7 July 2015 (UTC)

Sorry, Bruno's discography wikipedia page fooled me. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 178.36.52.207 (talk) 22:49, 7 July 2015 (UTC)

Taylor Swift to 170 million records claim
Harout. Well, I think it's time to her to get that claim.

170m-records using this source (http://www.theneworleansadvocate.com/news/12384234-31/superstar-taylor-swift-encores-in)

Need your advised. Thanks Politsi (talk) 14:00, 8 July 2015 (UTC)
 * I updated her claimed figure using your source.--Harout72 (talk) 23:33, 8 July 2015 (UTC)

Lady Gaga
Lady Gaga has more than 140 million singles sold + more than 28 million albums and not only 90 million!

http://www.songhall.org/news/entry/lady_gaga_to_receive_first_ever_contemporary_icon_award Koray aydin (talk) 20:32, 9 July 2015 (UTC)

Pink (Beth Moore) certifications sales total
Harout, I wonder if you have a time to seek her total of certification sales. since i don't have a good capability as you did.

Need your help for her total and estimated sales claim for her because i feel she deserve to have her name in this list.

I will try to find the reliable sources to support her claim. Need your help.

Thank you. Politsi (talk) 18:48, 9 July 2015 (UTC)
 * So far, she has only 49.6 million certified units, which can support 66.2 million claimed figures as she needs her claims supported by 75% certified sales. So, at the moment she can't appear on this list.--Harout72 (talk) 00:18, 10 July 2015 (UTC)

Certified sales
Hi. Could I ask how many certified sales are available for: 1) The Drifters 2) Wei Wei 3) Herbert von Karajan 4) and Helena Vondrackova? Thank You in advance. 31.61.136.172 (talk) 11:58, 9 July 2015 (UTC)
 * The Drifters: UK: 2 million certified units.
 * Herbert Von Karajan: Germany: 250,000 units, UK: 60,000 certified units, France: 300,000 units, Switzerland: 25,000 units. There could be few here and there from other markets, but it's not going to be anything major.
 * For Helena Vondrackova and Wei Wei, I can't find anything.--Harout72 (talk) 00:45, 10 July 2015 (UTC)

Jay Z should be above of Bon Jovi in the 100m-list
Harout, I believe you are the one who have been updated each of artists's certification with the highest correct and reliable source but I think we should also carefully to place the artists in the list with the correct position.

Sorry, but please remind me if I'm wrong. Jay-Z at 82m and more than Bon Jovi who has 80m. I will correct it, Thanks Politsi (talk) 18:45, 15 July 2015 (UTC)

Rihanna in the 200m-list
Harout, Need your advised. I've seen today that her name has been include in the 200m-list and i 100% agree with that.

I put her name with 230m claim and 191 claim with some reliable source.

Need your advised if there's some missunderstanding. Thanks Politsi (talk) 19:46, 10 July 2015 (UTC)
 * Rihanna needs at least 176.5 million certified units for a claim as high as 230 million. Even when she gets to that point, she should not immediately be moved up on the list. We'll do that when she's at least passed the 180 million mark with her certified sales.--Harout72 (talk) 01:14, 11 July 2015 (UTC)

Well, I don't do that actually, I just corrected the claim and the source but that's why i still asking you first. We already has two reliable source for her 230m-claim and when she's reach in that point (180m-certification sales) I will remind you again. Thanks Politsi (talk) 18:58, 12 July 2015 (UTC)

I beg to disagree with this sales.Rihanna sold 100m singles and 7.5m albums in usa and how comes it goes iver 135m claimed sales....Her total claim sales goes beyond 150-170 not 191m... — Preceding unsigned comment added by 112.198.79.115 (talk) 16:13, 18 July 2015 (UTC)

Whitney Houston sold over 200-250million records claim
It's is right to her to get that claim.

WHITNEY SOLD OVER 155M ALBUMS AND 80M SINGLES

SUMMARY

Whitney Houston-30m Whitney-25m I'm Your Baby Tonight-12m My Love Is Your Love-13m Just Whitney-3m I Look to You-5m The Bodyguard-44m The Preachers Wife-6m The Greates Hits-13m Ultimate Collection-5m Other Albums-2m

Singles

You Give Good Love        	            600,000 Hold Me                                    100,000 Thinking About You	                    50,000 Someone For Me	                            30,000 Saving All My Love For You               2,500,000 How Will I Know                          1,500,000 Greatest Love Of All	                 2,000,000 I Wanna Dance With Somebody (Who Loves Me)7,000,000 Didnt We Almost Have It All	         1,000,000 So Emotional	                         1,700,000 Where Do Broken Hearts Go	         1,200,000 I Know Him So Well (Germany Only)	   150,000 Love Will Save The Day	                   400,000 One Moment In Time	                 1,500,000 It Isnt It Wasnt It Aint Never Gonna Be	   200,000 I'm Your Baby Tonight	                 1,400,000 All The Man That I Need	                 1,200,000 Star Spangled Banner	                 1,000,000 Takin' A Chance (Japan Only)	           100,000 Miracle	                                   200,000 My Name Is Not Susan	                   300,000 We Didn't Know	                            25,000 I Belong To You	                           100,000 I Will Always Love You	                20,000,000 I'm Every Woman	                         2,000,000 I Have Nothing	                         1,700,000 Run To You	                           500,000 Queen Of The Night	                   300,000 Something In Common	                   300,000 Exhale (Shoop Shoop)	                 2,200,000 Count On Me	                           700,000 Why Does It Hurt So Bad	                   400,000 Step By Step	                         1,400,000 I Believe In You And Me                  1,400,000 My Heart Is Calling	                    75,000 When You Believe	                 1,000,000 Heartbreak Hotel	                 1,800,000 It's Not Right But It's Okay	         1,500,000 My Love Is Your Love	                 5,000,000 I Learned From The Best               	    500,000 If I Told You That	                   200,000 Same Script Different Cast	            20,000 Could I Have This Kiss Forever	           697,000 Fine	                                    20,000 Whatchulookinat	                            30,000 One Of Those Days	                    10,000 Try It On My Own	                    15,000 Love That Man	                             5,000

Total                                      70m  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 112.198.79.115 (talk) 16:32, 18 July 2015 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 18 July 2015
eminem has sold more than 260 million record https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eminem_discography

Mehdishady1996 (talk) 18:30, 18 July 2015 (UTC)
 * Red information icon with gradient background.svg Not done: The discography article seems to be incorrect - the source cited there for the 260 million figure is the same source cited on this article, and it actually says 115 million US sales, 40 million worldwide, making this article correct. https://web.archive.org/web/20141006084706/http://www.standardmedia.co.ke/entertainment/thenairobian/article/2000134572/rapper-eminem-s-rap-god-breaks-guinness-world-record-for-having-most-words-in-hit-record Cannolis (talk) 19:23, 18 July 2015 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 19 July 2015
Prince has sold 120 million records. http://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/music/news/prince-vault-rumours-verified-by-sound-engineer-who-says-she-started-it-10122608.html Artists such as Julio Iglesias have been certified for less and have these figures. So can someone please update his number from 100 million to 120 million? "The Independent" has been used for several artists as a source for claimed sales. Here's another source: http://www.detroitmusicmag.com/prince-perform-detroit/ Please update his figure to 120 million. I apologize for making a new topic, but I found out I had to send an edit request, which I didn't do the first time. Thanks.

173.74.247.195 (talk) 05:24, 19 July 2015 (UTC)
 * This list uses the claimed figures that are closest to artists' certified sales. This is actually stated in the lead Note that this list uses claimed figures that are closest to artists' available certified units. Inflated claimed figures that meet the required certified units amount but are unrealistically high, are not used.--Harout72 (talk) 06:45, 19 July 2015 (UTC)

Thanks for the reply. But artists such as Julio Iglesias have been certified for less than Prince yet are in the 120 million category, while Frank Sinatra has been certified for about half of Prince's sales yet is in the 150 million category. If one is to search up Julio's sales, you get anywhere from 60 - 300 million. Anyways, what I'm saying is that artists who have sold much less than Prince (including Genesis and Dire Straits) are in the 120 million category, so why can't he? Abba is certified for less, yet is in the 200 million category. Barry White is certified for a mere 21 million yet is in the 100 million category alongside Prince. So 120 million is relatively close to his sales compared to other artists on the list. And I was able to back it up with more than one source (and The Independent is a credible source used for many artists on the list). Please look into this, as it is not farfetched, the 120 million sale claim for Prince. He is certified for 62 million, more than other artists who have higher 'claimed sales'. I fail to see why he can't be pushed up to 120 with a credible news source. Last time I tried to get an artist updated, it took a single source. If you look at the table, there are loads of artists who have meager stats yet high 'claims'.Thanks for your time — Preceding unsigned comment added by 173.74.247.195 (talk) 07:30, 19 July 2015 (UTC)

❌
 * If you wish to continue discussions after making a request to which you've received a reply for already, do it without switching the yes to no.
 * The certified sales for artists who've begun charting pre mid 1970s will naturally be incomplete, because even the key music markets such as Germany, UK, France, Canada didn't have certification-systems before mid 1970's. Therefore, lot of their records (albums/singles/videos) may have gone without ever being certified, that includes all those names you're mentioning above. Let me remind you again that this list uses the lowest available claimed figures for all artists, regardless of what I just mentioned above. So Genesis, Barry White, Dire Straits, and others are currently using their lowest available claimed sales available.
 * Lot of reliable sources still publish 100 million for Prince, including The Telegraph, The Irish Daily Star, The Independent.--Harout72 (talk) 16:10, 19 July 2015 (UTC)

1. sorry, my bad.

2. I understand what you're saying. I realize that 120 million is a significant number away from Prince's certifications of 62 million. I realize you take the lowest number into account here, but then how come artists such as Whitney Houston, Mariah Carey, Celine Dion all have 2 claimed figures, and one MUCH higher than their certified amount. All of these artists began their careers in the '80s so the 'charting pre mid 1970s' wouldn't apply here. If only the lowest available claimed sales is accepted, then why do these artists have 2, and one significantly higher than the other? (for example, Whitney has both 170 million and 200 million in her claimed sales box). Is it because there are sources (such as 'The Independent') that back it up? All I'm saying is that Prince is in a similar situation, where there are 2 reliable sources that give a slightly higher number than his current one, and I've seen several artists here be pushed up after a news article or such claimed a figure. And if Mariah and Whitney can use 2, then why can't Prince have one claim of 120 million and another underneath of 100 million? Again, this is the same as what's happening in other artists' 'claimed sales' box. A reasonable looking claimed sale underneath a significantly larger one. Except 120 million is not significantly larger than 100 million. I fail to see why he can't be bumped up to the 120 million category with maybe 2 claimed sales in his box (120 and 100). Loads of other artists get pushed up with high 'claimed sales', why not him. All I'm asking is that one of his claimed sales be '120 million'... because it IS a claimed sale

3. That's true that they do, however if you're to search up news sources talking about Whitney Houston's sales, a lot will claim 170 million. Yet the '200 million' is still in the box, probably because other reliable sources say so. This is the same situation. I apologize for dragging this out, btw. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 173.74.247.195 (talk) 20:28, 19 July 2015 (UTC)


 * As you can see, only the top two sections use two claimed figures. This is mostly done for the top section, where the listed artists are pre 1975 beginners with an exception of Madonna. The 2nd section also uses two claimed figures, because 3 out of 7 are also pre 1975 beginners, but we might change this in the near future and use one claim for all. As for Whitney Houston, her 200 million is only some 17% higher than her lower claimed figure. While both Mariah Carey's and Celine Dion's 200 million figures are only 14% higher from their lower claims. The section Prince is listed, uses one claimed figure, and the 120 you suggest is 20% higher than his current 100 million. That will take him significatly away from his available certified sales.--Harout72 (talk) 21:31, 19 July 2015 (UTC)

Sweden new certified sales
--24.139.120.225 (talk) 06:50, 24 July 2015 (UTC)
 * Rihanna's B**ch Better Have My Money - Platinum (40,000 - Veckolista Singlar - Vecka 28, 13 juli 2015)
 * Rihanna's American Oxygen - Platinum (40,000 - "Search for "Rihanna", then look for the title of the song in the list (#50 under Rihanna's songs). Click on "visa" and go to the "certifikat" area - Platina 2015-07-07.".)

Some artists and bands had a wrong calculation
Well, I found there are wrong parts of table. I am going to point about where is it.

"Andrea Bocelli" and "Spice Girls" were charted in the mid-1990s. 47.25M and 42.75M are our tags. When you re-check them, there are more than 1 million gap on them.

New Kids on the Block is near the required sales which were certificated. Only less than 0.5 millions sale has not been covered. So, I think we leave it.

By the way, I have an opinion that we have to be more strict for a real purpose of this project. I slightly suggest that we can lift up a minimum point. 20% cannot be enough although they were a genuine world-star. I think 30% is more proper criteria.

One more thing is that I wonder how many sales are the certificated "Enrique Iglesias"

Csciey9654above8848 (talk) 08:35, 25 July 2015 (UTC)

britney should be in 150 mil list
Britney spears should be in 150 million list that link is about her album that sold over 100 million and in her discography it was written that she has sold that plus 28.6 million single just in us ,not worldwide
 * Britney's certifications lag. can give the complete discrepancy. — Indian: BIO   [ ChitChat ] 06:14, 29 July 2015 (UTC)

Adele
I was wondering how high are Adele's certified sales? --24.139.120.225 (talk) 07:18, 29 July 2015 (UTC)
 * 62.3 million certified units so far.--Harout72 (talk) 22:46, 29 July 2015 (UTC)

AC/DC should be over Whitney Houston now and B'z claim
AC/DC got more certified units than her now.

The wikipedia article "List of best-selling music artist in Japan" says that B'z sold 81.46 Million but the source doesn't fit, just wondering where the numbers came from and if they are possible to add to their claim. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Fancy Socks (talk • contribs) 14:10, 4 August 2015 (UTC)

Eminem
According to Eminem's article he's sold 172 million records. Last source (claiming 155 million) is also archived from web.archive. Should we update Eminem's sales? Jojnee (talk) 12:56, 9 August 2015 (UTC)

Katy Perry should have 126m
Katy received a special plaque at the 3rd Annual Capitol Congress rewarding PRISM's achievements, which include: 4m total albums sales and 30m total single sales. You should update the sales from 92 million to 126 million (92+34). Here are the sources:
 * http://katysource.com/2015/08/katy-perry-at-3rd-annual-capitol-congress-in-hollywood/
 * https://twitter.com/katyperrylately/status/629573319310770176
 * http://www.billboard.com/articles/business/6656658/beastie-boys-katy-perry-don-henley-capitol-congress
 * http://www.hawtcelebs.com/katy-perry-at-3rd-annual-capitol-congress-in-hollywood/
 * http://www.gettyimages.com/detail/news-photo/singer-katy-perry-attends-the-3rd-annual-capitol-congress-news-photo/483158222


 * none of those sources are reliable except for Billboard, which doesn't provide any figures. Snuggums (talk / edits) 13:27, 9 August 2015 (UTC)


 * And ShaneFilaner should also understand about WP:SYNTH. We do not simply add to the total. — Indian: BIO  [ ChitChat ] 14:07, 9 August 2015 (UTC)

Proposed corrections
This list puts together physical and digital copies; it counts singles for some artists, while only albums for others.

Even RIAA distinguishes between all-time physical records, and a physical album sells for $20 or so, while digital singles are available for £099.

Putting together digital singles with albums gives a distorted perspective.

Plus, for some artists, only albums. A simple example, and one can't go more official than this, Madonna has sold 300 million ALBUMS not records according to the Guinness Book of Records http://www.guinnessworldrecords.com/world-records/best-selling-female-recording-artist Yet the singles are not counted (digital or physical).

There should be different lists, as selling 100 Million digital singles is no where comparable to selling 100 million albums or even less 100 million physical albums. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2.28.43.232 (talk) 16:03, 7 August 2015 (UTC)


 * It sounds to me like you have a chip on your shoulder against a particular artist, though which one, I could only guess. Maybe it will make itself apparent in the near future. As to your complaint, selling 100 million digital copies of anything, be it album or single, is comparable to selling 100 million digital copies of anything else. The sales process is the same (just a few clicks!), so there is no reason to create separate lists. Further, we can only use the available data on a particular artist. If album data exists, but not record data, we must go with it, and vice-versa. We are not here to validate your opinion on the superiority of physical media versus digital media; 100 million albums is 100 million albums. 100 million sales is 100 million sales, regardless of media or bulk. 2601:281:C701:D07:E861:7D08:C7C4:FECB (talk) 14:17, 14 August 2015 (UTC)

ABBA
The German wikipedia-site indicates much stronger sales for ABBA, up to 300 million as reported by CNN. http://edition.cnn.com/2003/SHOWBIZ/Music/07/03/mroom.sweden/index.html Maybe someone can add this information? 88.70.178.20 (talk) 10:43, 31 July 2015 (UTC)
 * The German WP article states most likely the "offical" label (UMG) estimate as of 2013, which is at 380 million. Other published figures range from 100 to 500 million and most of <380 million figures (like the cnn figure from before 2001) are likely to be derived from older label statements (since the 1970s).--Kmhkmh (talk) 15:54, 15 August 2015 (UTC)

Bruno Mars above B'z
Shouldn't Bruno Mars be above B'z if his certified units are bigger? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 178.36.3.147 (talk) 15:21, 17 August 2015 (UTC)
 * Yes, thanks for bringing it up.--Harout72 (talk) 00:35, 19 August 2015 (UTC)

Updates
Hi. Aren't there any updates on the record sales of Adele, Usher, Shakira and Enrique Iglesias? BrunzPOP (talk) 13:51, 20 August 2015 (UTC)

Rihanna to 200m-List
Harout, I really hope that we can move her name to 200m-list because her certification sales is too excellent and she deserve it.

We should do this I think, and we can use this source (http://www.irishmirror.ie/whats-on/music/preview-rihanna--aviva-stadium-1971078) from Irish Daily Mirror and it's reliable.

I think we should put her with 200m-claim for while until her certification reaching 185 million and then we can use her 230m-claim.

I suggest we treat her like other 200m-sales artists. We put her with 200m-claim and also with her lowest claim at 191 million.

Harout, I need your advise and I think we should do this. What do you think?. Thanks. Politsi (talk) 09:15, 3 August 2015 (UTC)
 * Irish Mirror is definitely an unreliable source. — Indian: BIO  [ <b style="font-family:Tempus Sans ITC;color:#1C1CF0;">ChitChat</b> ] 10:21, 3 August 2015 (UTC)

Really? if Irish Daily Mirror is an un-reliable source then why we use a source from Irish Mirror for Garth Brooks's 150m-records claim? (http://www.irishmirror.ie/showbiz/irish-showbiz/ireland-gives-garth-brooks-perfect-3122508)

Please take a time to look this list completely clear. If you think Irish Mirror is un-reliable source, we should kick Garth Brooks from this list and please find a better source for his 150m-records claim (not only leave some comment).

Don't forget, even Irish Mirror is a Tabloid but that's one of the newspapers in the Republic of Ireland and like I said, we use this source only for while and when we or especially me find some better source. We will change it.

We should put Rihanna to 200m-list with that source for while and she deserve it. I will and also WE must find another better source until Rihanna certification sales reliable for 230m-claim.

Harout... I need your advised and help (the best result)... Thanks Politsi (talk) 03:27, 4 August 2015 (UTC)
 * Politsi, there is no need to update Rihanna's claimed figure yet. We just updated it. Her certified sales are still 17 million units away from her current 191 million claim. We'll update it again when she passes the 180 million mark with her certified sales.--Harout72 (talk) 04:00, 4 August 2015 (UTC)
 * And just to note, this attitude of "We should put Rihanna to 200m-list with that source for while and she deserve it" is against our policy of WP:OR and WPFANCRUFT. Please Stick to the origin and the rules applied to this page. Waiting a few days to have her certifications updated won't kill you. — Indian: BIO  [ <b style="font-family:Tempus Sans ITC;color:#1C1CF0;">ChitChat</b> ] 05:50, 4 August 2015 (UTC)

To IndianBio, it won't kill me but it's make me very angry because you said the source (Irish Mirror) i've mention it is unreliable while we USE that source (Irish Mirror) for other artist (Garth Brooks). I suggest you better read this list more carefully before warn another editor about rules or regulation of Wikipedia. And copying my statement without asking me is impolite.

I don't want to waste my energy for useless debate because Harout already answer my question and that's more than enough for me.

Again, I understand we should work together for the reliability of this list but we should very concern with the contain inside and keep it updated regularly.

To Harout... Thank you for your patient and it's been three years so far we handling this list together and i really appreciated your attention.

I still stand with my argue about Rihanna's 200m-records claim, once i've found the most reliable source, I will bring it to this page for our consideration. Politsi (talk) 12:55, 4 August 2015 (UTC)


 * What's the source to claim 138 million sales for Rihanna in the US? In the July news on the RIAA site is mentioned that "in addition to her 100 million cumulative song honors, Rihanna’s career album awards total 7.5 million sold in the United States". So the total sales of albums and singles/downloads/streams is 107,5 million in the US. What declares the difference of 30 million? DVD'? I believe this figure is inflated.Christo jones (talk) 13:45, 15 August 2015 (UTC)


 * Where do you see 138 million for the U.S.? It's 133 million. If you're referring to the certified sales figures, then the U.S. certified sales are taken from the RIAA site. The RIAA's total for singles here does not include mastertones and/or the singles Rihanna's featured on, including:
 * "Live Your Life" (3 million Digital + 1 million Mastertone)
 * "Love the Way You Lie" (11 million digital)
 * "Fly" (1 million Digital)
 * "Take Care" (4 million digital)
 * "Run This Town" (2 million digital)
 * There is also 500,000 units for mastertone format of "S.O.S.", 1 million units for "Unfaithful", 2 million for "Umbrella". --Harout72 (talk) 15:10, 15 August 2015 (UTC)

I would like to see Rihanna's document. Thanks. --Rudeby88 (talk) 23:10, 18 August 2015 (UTC)


 * The question also is if we should taken into account the singles where Rihanna is featured on. Those are more difficult to follow up and it is music not released under the name "Rihanna", but under the name of an other "artist feat. Rihanna". To me not the same kind of sales.Christo jones (talk) 19:03, 20 August 2015 (UTC)

Is there any reason to leave them, which I din't recognized, in this list?
I found there are wrong values in this table. I am going to point where it is.

"Spice Girls" and "Andrea Bocelli" are charted in the mid-1990s. According to our calculation, they are demanded to reach their minimum certified sales, which have each number as 47.25 million or 42.75 million. When you re-check them, there are more than 1 million gap on them.

Of course, "Spice Girls" has only 41.1 million and "Andrea Bocelli 37.4 million.

That means, they didn't filled 63%(Year 1996) or 57%(Year 1994) of "75 million sales"

--59.3.95.154 (talk) 15:31, 21 August 2015 (UTC)
 * You are actually right, they are not supposed to be on the list based on our requirements. I made some corrections/changes in the required percentage amounts last year based on each market's certified sales availability, but failed to remove these two. Bocelli needs 42.7 million certified units for 75 million claim, and his certified sales are only 37.4 million. And the Spice Girls need 47.2 million certified units for 75 million claim, but their available certified sales are so far only 41.1 million. Thanks for bringing this to my attention.--Harout72 (talk) 00:53, 22 August 2015 (UTC)

Harout, since their name and reputation (Spice Girls and Andrea Bocelli) was so legendary through the music world history but still can not enter this list and seems quite hard to enter this list in the future (they are non-active already), I will put their name in the top page of this list information. Need your advise also, Thanks. Politsi (talk) 12:12, 22 August 2015 (UTC)
 * Sure you can do that. But I wouldn't call them legendary :). Artists legendary enough, do have legendary certified sales, not these.--Harout72 (talk) 16:00, 22 August 2015 (UTC)

John Fogerty / Creedence Clearwater Revival
Harout, I wonder if you have any interest to answer my question. But i need your advise, Fogerty is the leader of Creedence Clearwater Revival band and he also has some solo career. Is it possible for him or his band to enter this list with 100m-records claim? (http://www.cbsnews.com/news/john-fogerty-creedence-clearwater-revival-reunion-a-possibility/)

What do you think?. Thanks Politsi (talk) 12:32, 22 August 2015 (UTC)
 * I See very low certified sales. From the U.S. 4.1 million, from Germany 25,000 units. The U.K. doesn't seem to have a single certification, neither does France or Canada. I'm not even going to check the rest, as those are our key music markets.--Harout72 (talk) 16:08, 22 August 2015 (UTC)

Adele and Pink
What about Adele and Pink? Sources say that they sold 90 and 110 million records respectively. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 178.36.29.201 (talk) 14:34, 23 August 2015 (UTC)


 * Pink has sold 40 million albums and 70 million albums according to a few souces. Her first charted record was relased in 2000 so she'll need over 70% of certified sales. She has 14 million certified albums and 5.5 million certified singles in the US. In the UK she has 5.9 million certified albums and 3.6 million singles. In Australia over 3.15 million albums and 2.69 million singles. I don't think she could be listed with a 110 million claim. She'll need over 52.5 million for 75 million claimed sales and 77 million certified sales to be listed as high as 110 million.


 * Adele first charted record was relased in 2008. So she'll need 75.28% of certified sales. For a 75 million claim she'll need 56.46 million certified sales and for 90 million claim she'll need 67.75 million certified units. She had over 62 million in certified the last time I saw her document. If you find a reliable source I think she can be listed with a 75 million claim. --Rudeby88 (talk) 18:10, 23 August 2015 (UTC)

Barbra Streisand
Barbra Streisand should be in the 200 million plus club. Almost every article since 2014 have mentioned 245 million. (The only female in the top ten, and the only artist outside of the rock 'n' roll genre.) and it's on her official website. This claim is supported by at least 20% in certified units as well. The recent sources from (2014-2015) that claim 245 million far outweigh the claim that she only sold 145 million so I think the page should change to reflect that. Also the 145 million claim originated from a 2003 book that only listed how much albums she sold, not her total record sales. 2601:C1:8000:31B5:F9C1:27AC:B8BC:92AA (talk) 00:37, 26 August 2015 (UTC)


 * Claims higher than 145 will only be used if Streisand's certified sales get close to her currently listed claimed figure.--Harout72 (talk) 01:22, 26 August 2015 (UTC)

Can you explain to me why you only use that criteria with Barbra Streisand? Frank Sinatra only has 37.1m certified sales yet he's listed at 150 million and Whitney Houston who's in the 20-60% bracket only has 20 million more certified sales than Barbra Streisand. ABBA have half the certifications of Barbra Streisand yet they are in the 200 million club. Queen has nearly the same amount of certifications and they are listed. 173.125.45.62 (talk) 17:25, 26 August 2015 (UTC)
 * The list uses lowest available published figures for all artists. This information is stated at the end of the lead. The top two sections use two of the lowest published figures, mainly for the artists that have begun charting years before 1975 when most music markets didn't have certification-systems.--Harout72 (talk) 00:50, 27 August 2015 (UTC)

Beyonce's certified sales.
Hi. I am well aware that Beyonce's certified sales will soon be 70 million which means she can be moved up to the 100 million bracket (finally since her certified sales had they been updated by her label would have surpassed the previously mentioned amount years ago). I was wondering what articles would be accepted as reliable sources of information. P.s when will Usher, Nicki Minaj, Drake, Toni Braxton, TLC and Lil Wayne make this list. Thanks in advance. (190.80.51.110 (talk) 03:34, 30 August 2015 (UTC))
 * Beyonce: All articles published by news services are acceptable, excluding those articles which speak of either albums sales or singles sales only. They must mention either records, or they could state two separate figures, one for albums, the other for singles.
 * Lil Wayne's certified sales are 76.1 million which can put him on the list with a maximum of 110 million claim.
 * Usher has 48.4 million certified units, and can be listed with 75 million claim.
 * I haven't gone over the certified sales of Nicki Minaj or Drake yet, but I would assume they may still be far away from qualifying for this list. TLC don't have a chance for being listed as their certified sales are only 34.1 million, which is enough for 55 million claim.--Harout72 (talk) 17:22, 30 August 2015 (UTC)

Bruno Mars
I found source that say Bruno Mars sold 100 million record http://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/news/2013/jul/24/bruno-mars-talks-musical-inspiration/ His certified units are pretty high now. Can we use this source to place him in the 100 table?

And something more. He's sold 330 000 albums in Philippines http://www.pari.com.ph/awardsgoldplatinum.html but it's not in his certified units section yet. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 178.36.21.181 (talk) 15:53, 28 August 2015 (UTC)

Harout are You here? :( — Preceding unsigned comment added by 178.36.21.181 (talk) 19:40, 29 August 2015 (UTC)
 * Yeah, I saw your post, but we're not using Philippines' certifications as it's a very small music market and I don't yet have their certification levels for all time periods. In the year 2010, Philippines' music market represented literally 0.09% of global music sales, that is not significant enough.--Harout72 (talk) 21:05, 29 August 2015 (UTC)

I understand that this is small market and usually few artists sold that much there, but if an artist sold more than 330 000 records why can not it be included in this table? That's not small amount and including it would make his certified units more reliable. And what do you think about this article about his claimed sales? Is it reliable enough? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 178.36.21.181 (talk) 13:26, 30 August 2015 (UTC)
 * The source itself, the San Diego Union-Tribune is reliable, but the article is over two years old. The total within is 108 million including his albums sales. The figure for his digital singles, the 100 million, is exaggerated, as the total certified units by now are 66.9 million. And the second album's sales, the 2 million units, for August 2015 is old/understated, as the certified units for that are already 4.4 million. By the way, for 108 million claim, Bruno Mars needs 82.7 million certified units. He needs 6.3 million more to reach that.
 * As far as the certifications for Philippines go, I might consider including it, only because their certification levels for foreign artists have been the same since 2010, and they don't have any artists from earlier years that we need to include. So not having their certification-levels for earlier periods isn't going to be a problem.--Harout72 (talk) 17:01, 30 August 2015 (UTC)

Thanks :) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 178.36.21.181 (talk) 21:08, 30 August 2015 (UTC)

Please don't touch or change the line Throughout his singing career, he has sold over 100 million singles and albums, making him one of the world's best-selling artists of all time.[1] in Mars's wikiBio because it's provide by me, including the source from the San Diego Union-Tribune. I want to encourage the media to release his new 100m-records claim because Mars's certification has been reach 76m and we need a new claim sales (more reliable). Politsi (talk) 09:01, 31 August 2015 (UTC)

"His total number of worldwide single download sales has surpassed 100 million". That 100 million is not only about singles but about both singles and albums. So article claims that he's sold 100 million records worldwide and he can be listed with this claim if this article isn't too old. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 178.36.21.181 (talk) 13:53, 31 August 2015 (UTC)

Updates
Rihanna's Italy certifications updated
 * FourFiveSeconds is now 2×Platinum.
 * B*tch Better Have My Money is now Gold.

--24.139.120.225 (talk) 02:05, 28 August 2015 (UTC)



--Rudeby88 (talk) 23:23, 7 September 2015 (UTC)
 * Bitch Better Have my Money is GOLD in Denmark

Bruno Mars's 100m-records claim from alternative weekly newspaper
Harout, I've found this source (http://www.eugeneweekly.com/20140807/music/mission-mars) from Eugene Weekly. Inside it was said that Mars has sold over 100 million copies of his singles and albums. And the article still new (August 2014).

What do you think? is he ready to enter the 100m-list with his current certification sales (77m)? and is it possible to use that source to support Mars's claim, at least for temporary until i found another more reliable source?

In my opinion, I think we should put Mars to 100m-list with that source because his current certification is enough already and the source/Eugene Weekly is a quite old reputable newspaper published.

Harout. What do you think? Thanks. Politsi (talk) 07:33, 2 September 2015 (UTC)
 * Let's wait a little longer to see if another more reliable source will publish the 100 million for Mars. I'm hesitant about supporting claimed figures with tabloids. But if Mars' certified sales pass the 80 million mark, and still no other source, then we'll turn to this one temporarily.--Harout72 (talk) 12:57, 2 September 2015 (UTC)

I understand that all the source for all artists in this list should be came from a very reputable broadsheet daily newspaper.

But like you said Harout... we can use Eugene Weekly to support Mars's 100m-claim when his certification pass the 80 million mark for while and I will still looking for more reliable source, I keep an eye on that. Thanks Politsi (talk) 15:13, 3 September 2015 (UTC)

Lady Gaga 100m-records claim
Harout, I still remember that you have said this singer sales claim can reach 95 million? But is quite impossible to find the exact same of that calculation from a newspaper.

I need your advised. Please see this source (http://www.rivieratimes.com/index.php/monaco-article/items/lady-gaga-returns-to-monaco-in-2015.html) from The Monaco Times – The English language newspaper for the Principality of Monaco.

Inside it is said that Lady Gaga has sold 100m-records.

What do you think Harout? her current certification very nearly reach 75 million and the source is reliable.

I think we should bring her to 100m-list too. I need your consideration. thanks Politsi (talk) 07:44, 2 September 2015 (UTC)
 * I am actually expecting many certifications for Gaga to be released soon based on rumors going on in the forums. So some more days and we can zoom her up. — Indian: BIO  [ <b style="font-family:Tempus Sans ITC;color:#1C1CF0;">ChitChat</b> ] 09:44, 2 September 2015 (UTC)
 * She's ok for now as her certified sales are lower than her claim by over 12 million. We'll come back to her when she's in the neighborhood of 80-85 million with her certified sales.--Harout72 (talk) 13:03, 2 September 2015 (UTC)
 * Harout, can you link here Lady Gaga and Madonna's certification docs? — Indian: BIO  [ <b style="font-family:Tempus Sans ITC;color:#1C1CF0;">ChitChat</b> ] 13:11, 2 September 2015 (UTC)
 * Sure, this is for Lady Gaga, and this is for Madonna.--Harout72 (talk) 00:54, 3 September 2015 (UTC)

Well, I think I did a good job here since most of reliable source still release Gaga's inflated sales figures (such as 125 million singles & 40m albums or album and single sales of 28 million and 140 million). When Gaga's certification reach at least 78 million. We should put her at 100m-list, I need you help Harout and also you IndianBio. Politsi (talk) 15:17, 3 September 2015 (UTC)

Backstreet Boys
Hi. This source and other sources say that the Backstreet Boys have sold 130 million records. http://abc.go.com/shows/dancing-with-the-stars/cast-announcement BrunzPOP (talk) 17:53, 2 September 2015 (UTC)

They started charting in 1995 so for 130 milion claim they would need 84.5 milion certified units. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 178.36.174.150 (talk) 18:46, 2 September 2015 (UTC)

The Criteria has changed again!
Hello, thank you for re-check my findings. I just have got your sincere confirm and am so glad to read your real opinion that I didn't understand. Well, I guess our law has changed tremendously, dealing more than plus minus 10 millions sales. Am I right? Before 2012 (10%) — Mid 2012 (15/35/50) — Late 2012 (20/40/60) — Mid 2014 (20/45/75) — Late 2015 (20/60/70)

Well, in my perspective, we are too loose toward many older artists and bands, highly more strictly of who has started their area since Nineteen-Eighties. Yes, we all know that before the MTV and 1980 the most of world has yet a recording certification licensed and registered by world common market. However, if they are world legendary, no, supernova, transcendent, eminent World Star in our global recordings, I think we now have to be more careful to any contemporary musicians. In my opinion, 30% has now been very acceptable for Nineteen-Seventies or the more previous decades since Eighteen-Eighties that the popular music of North America had initially been called.

And, I wanna ask you a question that I wonder what was your thinking that you shortened the gap of 1980 to 2000 and sharply rose the ending point of Nineteen-Eighties. In my wild guess you thought a vast enlargement of music industry and certification system of global scale. But I still wanna know more fairly.

Thanks for reading, Harout72.

--115.92.209.15 (talk) 15:22, 7 September 2015 (UTC)
 * I'm afraid I can't understand most of what you've written as it all seems like a google translation. But what I can vaguely understand is that you'd like to know what the requirements of the certified sales are based on? They are based on the generated sales by the music markets whose certified sales we look at. The music markets we use cover the 90% of global sales. That is 90% since 2009 to present, Italy being the recent market making its certifications available online. For the most recent artists, we require only 90% certified sales of the sales that all of the music markets combined generate, which is 80%. For more information about the global portion each market represents, see the bottom portion of the second yellow box on this talk page. By the year 2000, for example, we have 77.9% of the global sales generated by the markets we look at, and the 90% of that is 70%, therefore, our requirement is 70% for the year 2000. The same patters is followed for the year 1990.--Harout72 (talk) 17:57, 7 September 2015 (UTC)

So now to be on this list, artists who began charting: before 1980 are required to have their available claimed figures supported by 30% in certified units, between 1980–1990 are required to have their available claimed figures supported by 30-60% in certified units. And the rest hasn't changed. Tell me if I'm right.

US/WW sales
This page is a mess. Sales overseas are not verifiable. The only thing that can be tracked is how many units were SHIPPED. The only credible and accurate source for SALES (best selling artists) is Soundscan and RIAA which scrupulously tracks sales in the US. Perhaps this page has two sections: BEST SELLING US - SALES    /  BEST SELLING WORLDWIDE - SHIPMENT Otherwise, the information here is just flat wrong. 107.184.253.15 (talk) 04:28, 19 September 2015 (UTC)
 * First, you need to sign in, before you make a comment here. Your repeated similar edits are nothing but disruptive, and you might find yourself blocked for edit warring. You need to discuss your concerns here on this talk page. The column of certified sales cannot have actual sales figures, there is a reason why the column has Certified sales at the top. And we don't add those markets whose totals are lower than 100,000 units, including your additions of China and France in this edit. Also, your certified sales for Ireland is incorrect, Irish certified sales are only 52,500. For complete certified sales of Taylor Swift refer to this document. As far as using Facebook, we currently use that for Amprofon only.--Harout72 (talk) 09:38, 19 September 2015 (UTC)

James Last (80 million records)
Hi Harout, need your help and advise. What do you think about him? The German composer who died this year claimed has sold 80m-records (http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/entertainment/news/james-last-tributes-as-big-band-leader-and-pioneer-of-happy-sound-dies-at-86-31293919.html)

What do you think? how many of his certification sales?. Thank you Politsi (talk) 09:03, 22 September 2015 (UTC)
 * His available certified sales stand at 10.4 million only. He needs at least 16 million for a figure like 80 million.--Harout72 (talk) 02:29, 23 September 2015 (UTC)

Certification and market share
I'm afraid I can't understand most of what you've written as it all seems like a google translation. But what I can vaguely understand is that you'd like to know what the requirements of the certified sales are based on? They are based on the generated sales by the music markets whose certified sales we look at. The music markets we use cover the 90% of global sales. That is 90% since 2009 to present, Italy being the recent market making its certifications available online. For the most recent artists, we require only 90% certified sales of the sales that all of the music markets combined generate, which is 80%. For more information about the global portion each market represents, see the bottom portion of the second yellow box on this talk page. By the year 2000, for example, we have 77.9% of the global sales generated by the markets we look at, and the 90% of that is 70%, therefore, our requirement is 70% for the year 2000. The same patters is followed for the year 1990.--Harout72 (talk) 17:57, 7 September 2015 (UTC)

Oh, yes. Thanks. Harout72.

I'd get an short, clear contents. I'm sorry for puzzling you. Instead, you gave a far more, direct, perspicuous explanation than my expansive, ambiguous question. It is true that you put contents which is highly easy to read and understand.

Actually, I knew you use data of Market Share. But, I forgot how you've used and referred. Two weeks ago, you described to me all, even I didn't know at that time. Your one was very, very nice.

Then, the question I raised was like that: before 2012 (10% of claimed sales) — Mid 2012 (15/35/50) — Late 2012 (20/40/60) — Mid 2014 (20/45/75) — Late 2015 (20/60/70). As you know, it has dramatically changed year to year. Plus, one more thing is we once discussed percentages in 2012, although we had a market data. All these two points were my questions that I firstly wanna heard of answer.

I guess you got a confusion because I brought some researches, columns, plus some too unusual words. I know you got puzzled at my second and third paragraphs. Let me un-tighten these.

The certification-systems go in USA: RIAA (1958) (22.5%) · Japan: RIAJ (Million-seller database),RIAJ (Physical certifications since 1994),RIAJ (Physical certifications since 2003),RIAJ (Digital certifications) (1989) (25%) · Germany: BVMI (1975) (10%) · UK: BPI (1973) (8.5%) and et cetera...

It shows these systems has typically started around 1975 or 1990. Yes, it is really sure that older musicians may have very fewer certified sales. Nevertheless, as we've been dealing with very legendary and eminent artists, I think they also need at least 30%. Recording system, distribution rules, MTV and media received tremendous progress after 1960s. How do you think about it? I'm gonna hear your opinion. Thank you. 168.131.72.187 (talk) 10:18, 24 September 2015 (UTC)

Uptown Funk
Uptown Funk has been certified 5x platinum in New Zeland. http://nztop40.co.nz/chart/singles?chart=4146 — Preceding unsigned comment added by 178.36.34.143 (talk) 11:27, 26 September 2015 (UTC)

And in Canada is 9x platinum http://musiccanada.com/gold-platinum/?fwp_gp_search=%22Uptown+Funk%22%20%22Mark+Ronson%22 — Preceding unsigned comment added by 178.36.34.143 (talk) 13:31, 26 September 2015 (UTC)

Uptown Funk
Uptown Funk is 2x platinum + gold in Mexico https://www.facebook.com/sonymusicmexico/posts/10153274367907861 — Preceding unsigned comment added by 178.36.142.81 (talk) 11:52, 5 October 2015 (UTC)

Why hasn't anybody added this 30000 units to his Mexican sales? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 178.36.142.81 (talk) 19:12, 7 October 2015 (UTC)
 * Unless it appears also at Amprofon, it should't be added.--Harout72 (talk) 22:23, 7 October 2015 (UTC)

Eric Clapton and A-ha
I was reading our whole history of "L of B. S. M. A," though I've watched and supported around 4 years. As many dozens of months flowing, it is obvious that we've increased our minimum percent value for certified units on market and number value for claimed sales on coverage, year by year. However, there are still two missing points that aroused my curiosity. You see my theme. Yes, these are two artists.

Eric Clapton has been told that he reached already 70 millions on his certified amounts. Nevertheless, I haven't seen him for 4 years. Months ago, I didn't realized this case. Well, as a few years have passed since we are not given of him, I am sure some magazine, paper, or broadcast have already got it. Has his units openly claimed?

One more thing points A-ha the missed group. 4 years ago they seemed more than 50 millions and many years already passed. If any artists has not yet retired or passed away, these kinds of musicians who we always deal with—from Madonna to Green Day (or Robbie Williams) who are still currently handle their vigorous career—usually receive their dozens of million sales. On the other hand, A-ha disappeared just before we changed 20%/40%/60% or 50M/70M/75M. I remember they kept until Aug or Sep 2012 when the values was 15%/35%/50% and 50M. Can you explained what happened and how a lot of sources proved of disappearance of our world? --Csciey9654above8848 (talk) 14:30, 11 October 2015 (UTC)

Bruno Mars
'Marry You' is platinum in Grat Britain http://www.bpi.co.uk/certified-awards/birthday-bpi-award-for-bruno-mars.aspx — Preceding unsigned comment added by 178.36.142.81 (talk) 14:55, 12 October 2015 (UTC)

Document
I would like to see Rihanna's certified sales document. --Rudeby88 (talk) 23:58, 29 September 2015 (UTC)
 * There you are, Document for Rihanna.--Harout72 (talk) 00:11, 30 September 2015 (UTC)


 * Thanks. Talk That Talk (feat. Jay-Z) is Gold in Sweden. --Rudeby88 (talk) 02:02, 30 September 2015 (UTC)

FourFiveSeconds is 4× Platinum in Sweden.(prev. 3× Platinum). --Rudeby88 (talk) 01:58, 18 October 2015 (UTC)

IFPI Certification Award Levels
Hello again! So I decided to dig into the whole IFPI Norway thing, and I found a lot of articles citing figures of albums before 2007 (when they set their latest certification value), and much to my frustration, there was no actual document that said any cert value before that date. I feel like I'm getting really close, but I recently came over this document which might help with other things. This document provides the value of certifications for all IFPI countries since 2009. I made a mediafire download for you here: http://www.mediafire.com/view/8bux93bkk2ey7r6/ifpi-certification-award-levels.pdf ... Hopefully this is useful to you, and maybe with enough digging I'll find that document. --Bobtinin (talk) 05:46, 19 October 2015 (UTC)


 * We've got those 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012, 2013. Even for 2005 (see page 23). And also I know that their levels circa 1998 for albums were 50,000 for Platinum, 25,000 for Gold. I need a specific document preferably from IFPI Norway that lists all of the changes for all time period, similar to the one I got from Austria IFPI for example.--Harout72 (talk) 13:44, 19 October 2015 (UTC)

Gene Austin - does he belong in one of these lists?
According to the article on Austin, he sold 80 records in the 1920s and 1930s. It's also noted that this went unmatched by any solo performer for 40 years. True or not? I don't know where to find the sources on this, and the article itself does not back up the claim with citations. Allreet (talk) 05:39, 23 October 2015 (UTC)

Katy perry? ? ???????????!!!
What's happening with the weird difference between her certificated sales and the claimed sales? !?!?! Yes we know Wikipedia policy is to have a well known source But it's not good to leave like this it's un logical Just but her in a column that suits her numbers and just say it need a source for confirmation It will be more than logical like this...

Love Wikipedia Peace Thx 83.137.1.222 (talk) 11:08, 25 October 2015 (UTC)

Usher with 75m
Hi Harout, how are you?. I remember that once you have said this R&B singer sales estimation can reach 75m. I found this source but I'm not sure this source is reliable since I can't find any data which explain the quality of the publisher

here the source which said Usher has sold 75m (http://www.newspaperpost.com/2015/09/25/usher-marries-longtime-girlfriend/)

What do you think? thanks. Politsi (talk) 03:02, 25 October 2015 (UTC)
 * Yes, Usher needs 48 million certified units to be listed with 75 million, and he has 48.4 million by now, so he does qualify. But your source doesn't seem to be something we can go with. Let me know if you find another source.--Harout72 (talk) 16:09, 25 October 2015 (UTC)

Certified sales vs claimed sales
I am curious to know why Wikipedia ranks the singers based on claimed sales rather than certified sales. Don't you think the claimed sales would be inflated by the singer's constituents. At least for claimed sales, there is actual data supporting it. I would love for someone to explain to me why the claimed sales are taken with more weight than certified sales. I think its a little silly and deceiving. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.234.132.35 (talk) 00:10, 27 October 2015 (UTC)


 * This question has been posed before, and the only explanations given essentially boil down to "rules are rules". Earlier this year I proposed that certified sales should be used ahead of claimed sales if the latter are less than the former and therefore obviously out of date.  Needless to say, the suggestion was summarily dismissed because it was counter to rules already in place.  I guess the only justice here is that out-of-date information eventually gets updated in a way that satisfies this article's rather arcane rules, and the artists eventually get their due.  ChrisCarss Former24.108.99.31 (talk) 09:20, 28 October 2015 (UTC)

The Black Eye Peas certification record are missing
Harout, I've seen their certification sales records are missing. Need your help. Thanks Politsi (talk) 01:47, 31 October 2015 (UTC)
 * I fixed it.--Harout72 (talk) 03:19, 31 October 2015 (UTC)

Lady Gaga to 100m-records list
Harout, her certification sales already reach 75 million. Is it good enough to bring her to the 100m-list? I think she has been complete the 75% requirement. (http://www.rivieratimes.com/index.php/monaco-article/items/lady-gaga-returns-to-monaco-in-2015.html)

What do you think? Thanks.Politsi (talk) 10:48, 2 November 2015 (UTC)
 * We are almost there I believe, just 75.3 million and we can upate. — Indian: BIO  [ <b style="font-family:Tempus Sans ITC;color:#1C1CF0;">ChitChat</b> ] 17:14, 2 November 2015 (UTC)
 * Yeap, just another some 300,000 units needed.--Harout72 (talk) 00:59, 3 November 2015 (UTC)

Me Against the Music
Harout can you check if for Britney's "Me Against the Music" a Japanese certification for ringtone was added? If yes then was it added for Madonna as well? — Indian: BIO  [ <b style="font-family:Tempus Sans ITC;color:#1C1CF0;">ChitChat</b> ] 21:48, 3 November 2015 (UTC)
 * No, Japan doesn't have any certifications for "Me Against the Music" as far as I'm concerned. On my document for Britney, only Australia has a certification for it. But it's a good thing you brought this up, because I haven't added that Australian cert for Madonna.--Harout72 (talk) 00:33, 4 November 2015 (UTC)

Pink Floyd - Years Active
I'm not sure what the proper definition of "years active" is, but Pink Floyd did reunite (all four of the members of their most popular albums) in 2005 for, I believe, the Live8 benefit concert in Hyde Park, London, England. Shouldn't, therefore, 2005, be listed as an active year? Or must an album or record be officially released to be "active"?

Morvandium (talk) 06:21, 6 November 2015 (UTC)

When we can welcoming Adele to the list?
Harout, Adele will release her new album at the end of November and her new single topping the chart at the moment. How much of her certification sales could support 90 million sales (http://www.telegraphindia.com/1150224/jsp/t2/story_5056.jsp) ?

Need your help. Thanks Politsi (talk) 10:33, 6 November 2015 (UTC)


 * Adele needs her claimed figures supported by 75.3% certified sales, that's 67.7 million certified units needed for a 90 million claim. Her certified sales at the moment stand at 62.6 million. My guess is that we should be able to put her up on the list soon, maybe in a month or two.--Harout72 (talk) 14:12, 6 November 2015 (UTC)

James Taylor / 100m-records
Harout... I'm sorry, Did I mention him already?. How many of his certification sales? is it quite enough to support the 100m-records sales? (http://www.berkshireeagle.com/local/ci_28372833/james-taylor-first-new-album-hit-top-billboard)

I think this old legendary singer has a good certification sales in U.S.

What do you think? Thanks. Politsi (talk) 14:57, 7 November 2015 (UTC)
 * Yes, he has enough certified sales for 100 million claim, 35 million in all. I put him up on the list. Is there a lower claimed figure for him? Because based on his 35 million certified units, the 100 million seems a bit stretch.--Harout72 (talk) 19:18, 7 November 2015 (UTC)

Harout, so far. I just only found the 100m- claim but I think since Taylor's career begin since the mid 1960. His 35 million certification is good enough to support the 100m-claim. Especially comparing with the other old artist like Barry White or even Tina Turner.. Taylor is better. We should put his legacy on the list. Need your help. Thanks Politsi (talk) 03:40, 8 November 2015 (UTC)
 * James Taylor is already on the list politsi. — Indian: BIO  [ <b style="font-family:Tempus Sans ITC;color:#1C1CF0;">ChitChat</b> ] 18:47, 8 November 2015 (UTC)

R. Kelly
I erase my question regarding with R. Kelly. I knew already. Thanks Politsi (talk) 14:46, 10 November 2015 (UTC)

Rihanna to 200m-list
Harout.. I've see her certification sales has been reach nearly 178 million, and based on our calculation. It's meet the requirement already to support the 230 million sales.

I know we should keep the claim sales on the list always logical but I think 178 million against 230 million is logical, especially how spread of Rihanna's certification sales worldwide and how much of her popularity in many countries.

We can use these two reliable source for her 230m-claim and update her position as the best seller in the 200m-list (more than Mariah Carey).

http://www.latimes.com/entertainment/music/posts/la-et-ms-rihanna-to-receive-icon-honor-at-american-music-awards-20131114-story.html http://www.coventrytelegraph.net/news/coventry-news/cov-kid-says-no-speed-6317064

What do you think? need your help. Thanks Politsi (talk) 08:29, 10 November 2015 (UTC)
 * Yes I believe she can be firmly moved up. — Indian: BIO  [ <b style="font-family:Tempus Sans ITC;color:#1C1CF0;">ChitChat</b> ] 09:48, 10 November 2015 (UTC)
 * We should definitely move her up! She has more than enough to get that claims and a higher sales are reported too (262 million, which I am not saying those should be posted, but just a comparison.) — Tom (T2ME) 10:42, 10 November 2015 (UTC)
 * Rihanna's certified sales are still some 13.5 million units away from her current claimed sales, 191 million. If we update her claimed figure now, we'll create a huge gap between her 177.6 million and the 230 million units claim, that's over 50 million units of difference. Clearly, she still hasn't reached anywhere near the 230 million mark with her actual sales, based on her available certified sales. That's just a promotional figure tossed about by her record company. I'd agree, however, to take her claimed figure to 200 million at the moment, if there is such a claim.--Harout72 (talk) 14:19, 10 November 2015 (UTC)


 * Rihanna sold 200 million records, according to the Irish Mirror (http://www.irishmirror.ie/whats-on/music/preview-rihanna--aviva-stadium-1971078). I agree with Harout72 she'll need at least 200-210 million in certified sales to put her with 230 million. She'll release her new album soon, so in a couple months her certified sales will be near 200 million. For now we can use that source to put her with a 200 million claim. --Rudeby88 (talk) 14:34, 10 November 2015 (UTC)


 * Is there a newspaper that claims 200 million? Irish Mirror is a tabloid, but we can use that temporarily.--Harout72 (talk) 14:40, 10 November 2015 (UTC)

No Harout.. I've try.. At least we use that source for Rihanna until her certification reach 190 million and then we can updating her claim sales to 230m. Need your help. Thanks. Politsi (talk) 14:50, 10 November 2015 (UTC)


 * Elle UK (http://www.elleuk.com/fashion/celebrity-style/rihanna-read-full-interview-elle-uk-april-2013) I haven't find anything else. --Rudeby88 (talk) 14:54, 10 November 2015 (UTC)


 * Apologies, I had somehow overlooked between Rihanna's certi and Mariah's certi and thought they are close. Pretty poor judgement. — Indian: BIO  [ <b style="font-family:Tempus Sans ITC;color:#1C1CF0;">ChitChat</b> ] 15:12, 10 November 2015 (UTC)

Harout, I will erase the source from Elle (magazine) for Rihanna 200m-sales, because we already have one reliable source for her from Irish Mirror though it's a tabloid, but Irish Mirror is one of the national newspapers in the Republic of Ireland.

But a source from Women's fashion magazines in the list? Definitely not. I will erase it, It's enough for Rihanna to have one source for both 200m and 191m claim sales at this moment. Thanks Politsi (talk) 02:14, 11 November 2015 (UTC)

Genesis to 100m-list
Harout. I was re-new several sources for some artists and decided to put Dire Straits to 100m-list because I've see their certification sales (43.4 million) is too low to support the 120m-claim sales.

Harout, I need your opinion. Genesis claim sales so far being published about 130 million by several newspaper recently but as we are know that their certification even less than 40 million.

I suggest we put them to the 100m-list by using this source (http://www.themoscowtimes.com/sitemap/free/1997/12/article/collins-may-be-gone-but-genesis-plays-on/296344.html)

The source is quite old, from 1997. But it's reliable because the last time Genesis very active in music world and releasing album is in 1997, their last studio albums (Calling All Stations) is released in 1997. Since then, there is no significant music impact from them.

But I will still searching more new reliable source for 100m-claim sales of them but meanwhile. We could use that source to put them at the 100m-list.

What do you think? Thanks. Politsi (talk) 07:43, 11 November 2015 (UTC)


 * Good job on the Dire Straits. As for Genesis, I completely agree that they could not have sold more than 100 million records, but that source is extremely old. I went over the certifications they have collected after 1997, and this is what it looks like:
 * US=500,000 units
 * UK=1,255,000 units
 * Germany=1,250,000 units
 * France=160,000 units (the platinum certifications do not show in the newer database)
 * So, we're looking at some 3.16 million certified units. I know it isn't much, but we probably should not rely on a source from 1997. What do others think?--Harout72 (talk) 14:02, 11 November 2015 (UTC)


 * Harout, as long as the source still active and the quality of contain is very match. It's Ok if we use it. Beside we always try to prevent any inflated figures in the list, right? And for your information, I have a reliable source for Neil Diamond's 100m-records claim. I was thinking that if you agree with me to kick out Genesis's inflated sales figure from the 120m-list. I will also kick out Neil Diamond from the same list and put him at the 100m list. Harout, I'm waiting from your final response. Thanks Politsi (talk) 17:35, 11 November 2015 (UTC)


 * Is the source for Neil Diamond relatively new? If so, we should move him down on the list. Let's wait a few days for Genesis, if no comments or objections, we can proceed.--Harout72 (talk) 17:54, 11 November 2015 (UTC)


 * I've found the source for Neil Diamond's 100m-claim from the National Review/http://www.nationalreview.com/article/262076/rock-and-roll-hall-lame-mark-goldblatt / 2011 edition. It's one of American news magazines and of the Major English-language current affairs and culture magazines. I think it's reliable to be use on the list for Diamond's claim sales. And for Genesis, I will wait at least three days from now. If there's no objections from other editor. I will proceed to put Genesis at 100m-list. Harout, need your other advised. Thanks Politsi (talk) 02:13, 12 November 2015 (UTC)


 * We can also use this for Neil Diamond (http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/photos-e6freon6-1225783773107?page=7) but I prefer the source from National Review Politsi (talk) 02:29, 12 November 2015 (UTC)


 * Harout... I can't wait any longer, to be honest. I really hate seeing Genesis standing in the list with a big claim sales and with their poor certification. I will put their name in the 100m-list but I will still searching the newer reliable source and replace it once I've found. But just undo it if you feel my action still un-neccessary. Thanks Politsi (talk) 10:50, 12 November 2015 (UTC)
 * Politsi can you please use indent in your conversations? Its very difficult to read. See how I have aligned the content. — Indian: BIO  [ <b style="font-family:Tempus Sans ITC;color:#1C1CF0;">ChitChat</b> ] 10:56, 12 November 2015 (UTC)
 * Like this? I'm afraid any misstyping. Politsi (talk) 11:00, 12 November 2015 (UTC)
 * Perfect. Thanks. — Indian: BIO  [ <b style="font-family:Tempus Sans ITC;color:#1C1CF0;">ChitChat</b> ] 11:06, 12 November 2015 (UTC)

ABBA to the 100m-list
Harout. I also kick out this group from the 200m-club to 100m-list because after I read a good article from WSJ (http://www.wsj.com/articles/SB124760651612341407), you should read it also. It's very clear to me that this band always telling lie to the world about their inflated 350m-400m sales figures. I'll put them to the 100m-list by using this source (http://www.skegnessstandard.co.uk/what-s-on/arts-leisure/abba-gold-and-the-uk-bee-gees-tribute-acts-to-perform-in-skegness-1-5373757) It's still new, reliable, and clear enough. Need your advised. Thanks Politsi (talk) 12:10, 12 November 2015 (UTC)
 * Politsi, again you are using the same response structure. Please write your sentences one after another and donot introduce unnecessary paragraphing in talk page discussions. Coming to ABBA, please wait for Harout's input on this because it is a widely discussed topic about their sales. I have reverted your ABBA edit for now. — Indian: BIO  [ <b style="font-family:Tempus Sans ITC;color:#1C1CF0;">ChitChat</b> ] 12:18, 12 November 2015 (UTC)
 * I'm sorry but IndianBio... I suggest you better read the contain of what I've written carefully and do not read it in a rush. Harout always understand what I say in this talk page... So, as long as he understand my question and doesn't complaint about the way I write. It's enough for me. If you feel any problem with the way I write, do not push yourself to read. You're not under obligation to answer. Harout... please read the article from the WSJ, I really feel we should kick out ABBA from the 200m-club. Need your help. Thanks Politsi (talk) 12:27, 12 November 2015 (UTC)
 * Politsi, please be reminded that this is an open talk page for all, and if I feel your way of writing is disrupting a normal talk page flow, might I suggest you to read WP:TPYES where it is clearly mentioned to keep formatting clear and use standard formatting. The standard is to use the indent and not paragraphs for single sentences and you would do better to follow it. — Indian: BIO  [ <b style="font-family:Tempus Sans ITC;color:#1C1CF0;">ChitChat</b> ] 13:12, 12 November 2015 (UTC)
 * Politsi, I believe we should leave ABBA where they are for the time being. ABBA may not have sold 200 million as some of our sources claim, but their actual sales could be around 120-130 million. Let's bear in mind that ABBA have experienced am enormous success in almost all parts of the world, and lot of those countries didn't have a certification system, so it's very difficult to track down their initial sales generated in the 1970s.--Harout72 (talk) 13:35, 12 November 2015 (UTC)
 * To Indian Bio... Thanks for remind me, but again... for me, as long as Harout doesn't complain about the way I write, I will still do it. But if Harout didn't like my writing style and warning me with some regulation like you did. I will follow it. and to Harout... thank you for your patient after all this years doing a lot of discussion with me. Politsi (talk) 13:45, 12 November 2015 (UTC)
 * Politsi, you should not wait for me to complain, wikipedia is not my project :). You should follow the formatting policies (in this case) to make your writing legible.--Harout72 (talk) 14:23, 12 November 2015 (UTC)

Okay then. It's feel better if that's come from you because of your patient on me so far. But actually, I'm very happy that IndianBio also keep an eye on this talk page. I mean after all, he also put a great attention and care for the list. Especially answering my question. I like it. Politsi (talk) 15:00, 12 November 2015 (UTC)

Neil Diamond, Genesis, Bee Gees, and Julio Iglesias to 100m-list
Harout. Today, I remove their name from the 120m-list and bring them to the 100m-list. And it look's better for me.

What do you think? I'm sorry for not asking you first. Thanks Politsi (talk) 11:48, 12 November 2015 (UTC)
 * Politisi, please do not proceed unless we're done discussing whether or not artists should be moved up or down on the list. That said, you've used this source for the Bee Gee, which doesn't immediately speak of the sales of Bee Gees, therefore, you should move them back where they were if that's the only source. Also, we decided to wait on Genesis for a few days, remember, why so soon. As for Neil Diamond, isn't there a newspaper?--Harout72 (talk) 13:48, 12 November 2015 (UTC)
 * Harout. I'm sorry because I was too excited for Genesis, and for Bee Gees records sales claim source, I will change it with this one (http://news.bbc.co.uk/local/threecounties/hi/front_page/newsid_8855000/8855434.stm) and for Neil Diamond, I just only found this one (http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/photos-e6freon6-1225783773107?page=7) but it's not clear, I think the source from National Review is better.. What do you think? thanks. Politsi (talk) 14:01, 12 November 2015 (UTC)
 * Harout.. I see you revert my edit regarding with Bee Gees, then how about the source from BBC News that I've mention above? It's clear and reliable for their 100m-records claim. Please, I need your advised. Thanks Politsi (talk) 14:07, 12 November 2015 (UTC)
 * The source of BBC says in excess of 100 million, meaning more than 100 million. So it's no use.--Harout72 (talk) 14:14, 12 November 2015 (UTC)

Well, I do agree that we should let Bee Gees at the 120m-list after I read your explanation about ABBA popularity. Perhaps, Bee Gees has same experience success like ABBA did, beside after all, it's only about 120m of Bee Gees and still logical. But about Genesis and Neil Diamond, I suggest we kept them at the 100m-list and their source is reliable. I still do searching for some better source. Thanks Harout. Politsi (talk) 15:01, 12 November 2015 (UTC)

Depeche Mode (50 million records sales) / They do not deserve to be on the list
Harout, to be honest. I feel we should kick out this Band from the list since their certification sales are not good enough to support the 75m-claim (less than 27 million). Beside, our source (from the 2009 edition/The Seattle Times) for them in this list is still said about "Albums" only, not "Records". Therefore, It's not appropriate to let their name in the list. But especially, after I found this source (http://www.baltictimes.com/news/articles/14672/) from The Baltic Times/2006 edition, inside it's was stated that they are only sold 50 million records and the source from The Independent/2009 edition/(http://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/music/reviews/depeche-mode-wembley-arena-london-6104605.html) stated they are sold 50m-albums. That two 50m-sales claims is more reliable for them based on their poor certification sales. Harout, we should erase their name from this prestigious list. What do you think?. Thanks Politsi (talk) 05:39, 13 November 2015 (UTC)
 * I agree with you Politsi in this case. It does not tie up comfortably. Harout what do you think? — Indian: BIO  [ <b style="font-family:Tempus Sans ITC;color:#1C1CF0;">ChitChat</b> ] 12:04, 13 November 2015 (UTC)
 * You're right, Depeche Mode have only 22.5 million certified albums available which could support 62 million albums sales. Their overall certified sales are 26.3, which actually is enough to support 73.4 million claim only. So they don't even have enough for a claim 75 million records. When I updated the requirements some months ago, I failed to look at this. So, yes, they should be removed for now.--Harout72 (talk) 14:18, 13 November 2015 (UTC)

There's no Tabloid Format as a source in the list.
Harout, starting from now I will try to keep all sources in here from a very prestigious Broadsheet newspaper. There's no tabloid format, even that Tabloid has an old history, But for some artists which is still stand in the list with a Tabloid Format as the claim source. We let them until we found the source from a Broadsheet newspaper format. We should do this to keep the list in a very high quality and prestigious format. Thanks Politsi (talk) 14:39, 13 November 2015 (UTC)

R. Kelly
Harout.. I'm sorry for mention his name again because I still curious, I mean after all if his certification sales is quite enough why we're not welcoming him to the list. Need your help, how many of his certification sales so far and how many he must have to gain the 100m-claim sales (http://www.tuscaloosanews.com/article/20141026/NEWS/141029659)? Again Harout... I still curious, need your help. Thanks Politsi (talk) 09:49, 14 November 2015 (UTC)
 * R.Kelly would need 63 million certified units to be listed with 100 million claim, his available certified sales are only 53.7 million. He can, however, be listed with 85 million claim, if there is such a claim.--Harout72 (talk) 16:39, 14 November 2015 (UTC)

George Michael (80m-records)
Harout, I've seen he only has about 43.5 million in certification sales to support the 100m-claim but I wonder. What if we put him to the 80m-list since I feel his certification sales not really good for 100m-claim. I've found this source from 2013 edition (http://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/showbiz-news/george-is-ready-to-rock-stadium-997071 2013 edition) and from the 2008 edition of UK Reuters (http://uk.reuters.com/article/2008/01/16/uk-michael-autobiography-idUKL1631352320080116 reuters 2008 edition). I suggest we kick him from the 100m-club, and for comparing, even Santana who has over 60 million in certification only get 90m in claim sales. Harout, what do you think?. Thanks Politsi (talk) 08:57, 14 November 2015 (UTC)
 * I agree with you Politsi for George Michael, as for Santana, I would wait to see Harout's certification list. — Indian: BIO  [ <b style="font-family:Tempus Sans ITC;color:#1C1CF0;">ChitChat</b> ] 09:01, 14 November 2015 (UTC)
 * Speaking about Santana.. To be honest, I'm not in comparing argue but looking from the year since Santana begin their music career (in 1969) and looking how good their certification sales (60 million), I think.. It's not too much to put their name to the 100m-list, it's only about 10 million different from their usual claim sales in the list.. Again, this is my opinion. and again to George, Harout. Need your advise. Thanks Politsi (talk) 09:55, 14 November 2015 (UTC)


 * Since George Michael has collected only 660,000 certified units, almost almost all from the UK between 2007 and now, I think the 80 million records would still be better and more logical, based on his [ http://www.mediafire.com/download/c610x6gclc8xcs8/George+Michael's+Certified+Sales.docavailable certified sales]. As for Santana, there is no need at the moment to change his claimed figure.--Harout72 (talk) 16:49, 14 November 2015 (UTC)

#Artists by reputed sales images and 500 million figure
I think that we should remove the images, they seems to be establishing that Beatles are best selling, although that position is disputed between Elvis and the Beatles. Having these images removed will be more due for the article. Excelse (talk) 06:01, 18 November 2015 (UTC)
 * The images are fine, and please don't remove any reliable sources from the list as you've done in this edit.--Harout72 (talk) 14:22, 18 November 2015 (UTC)
 * Sorry but it looks like a misleading attempt to claim that Beatles have more sales when they don't. Also why you inserted this URL back? It is not written by a sales expert, and per WP:NPOV, I have added this source which is far reliable than ibitimes regarding "500 million" sales, but this time for the Beatles. Excelse (talk) 17:07, 18 November 2015 (UTC)
 * The purpose of this list isn't to turn it into a competition, but rather into a list that informs readers about higher selling music artists. By the way, while 500 million is logical for The Beatles, we don't use such sources as this source. Our claimed figures should come from news agencies, and/or music magazines such as Billboard, Rolling Stone.--Harout72 (talk) 02:05, 19 November 2015 (UTC)
 * Not getting how Wiley is not this usable than news links because WP:RS is the policy. Exactly this is not competition but it does seems. I will wait then probably go for noticeboards or RFC. Excelse (talk) 08:40, 19 November 2015 (UTC)