Talk:List of best-selling music artists/Archive 36

Coldplay
I need Coldplay certified sales file. Thank you Esambuu (talk) 02:25, 24 July 2017 (UTC)
 * Here you are.--Harout72 (talk) 13:27, 24 July 2017 (UTC)
 * Some corrections are

1. Something Just Like This has certified 2x platinum in Canada (160,000 units)

2. Total UK single sales are 10,200,000 in my calculation. (Not 9,600,000)

3. Austrian Total sales are 182,500 (not 172,500) 132,500 Albums + 45,000 Singles + 5,000 Videos = 182,500

4. Belgian albums sales are 480,000 (your total is 470,000) Esambuu (talk) 02:21, 25 July 2017 (UTC)
 * Thank you, all of them are corrected now. Belgium's total was correct, but I corrected the albums' total on my file.--Harout72 (talk) 03:21, 25 July 2017 (UTC)
 * and also Trouble has been certified Silver in UK on 15 April 2016. Esambuu (talk) 05:21, 25 July 2017 (UTC)
 * I'm so careful when it comes to adding Gold and Platinum certifications, yet I end up missing some. Thanks again, that's added also now.--Harout72 (talk) 05:38, 25 July 2017 (UTC)
 * Another question, why we only accepts website certifications?. Nowadays, most of certification data coming from verified Twitter and Facebook pages. Traditional web sites started no longer used for future. Example on Coldplay, Their Latin American certification data are outdated (Not updated since 2008). But Warner Music Brasil, Warner Music Argentina and other many accounts informing to us their artist's new certifications. Sorry my bad english. Esambuu (talk) 08:07, 25 July 2017 (UTC)
 * All certifications are posted on the websites of the certifying bodies. Warner Music Brasil and Warner Music Argentina are not certifying bodies, they are record companies. Consequently, just because they claim their released titles are certified Platinum or Gold, it doesn't immediately make it true. In order to certify a single, album, video, there is a fee involved that record companies have to submit to the certifying body. Currently, we're only accepting certifications posted at the Amprofon's official Facebook page as they post all their certs on Facebook page for the current year, and transfer all those into their cert database in the beginning of the next year. If there are official facebook pages for CAPIF and ABPD where they store all yearly certified titles as Aprofon does, let me know, I'll take a look at them.--Harout72 (talk) 12:16, 25 July 2017 (UTC)
 * Thank you for answering

Adele's numbers are wrong
She's sold 27 million in the US according to the RIAA. --2A00:C440:20:164E:F51C:F2E7:902:56E1 (talk) 08:58, 26 July 2017 (UTC)
 * Is it possible that you're looking at albums' certifications only?--Harout72 (talk) 13:17, 26 July 2017 (UTC)

Rihanna "Wild Thoughts"
"Wild Thoughts" is now certified platinum in the United States (1,000,000), but on the RIAA web page the certification is only credited to DJ Khaled. (https://www.riaa.com/gold-platinum/?tab_active=default-award&ar=DJ+Khaled&ti=Wild+Thoughts#search_section) As the single includes two featured artists (Rihanna and Bryson Tiller) and all vocals are provided by the featured artists, it is acceptable to count the certification to Rihanna's data. So what now? Ilikeriri (talk) 13:14, 27 July 2017 (UTC)
 * All vocals are provided by featured artists? What about DJ Khaled, he has a part in it also. Yes, if all vocals were provided by the featured artists, then we'd include the certification in Rihanna's total.--Harout72 (talk) 13:43, 27 July 2017 (UTC)
 * So you really count this as vocals? All right, then forget about what I said but we both know that the song is actually performed by Rihanna and Tiller. Ilikeriri (talk) 13:53, 27 July 2017 (UTC)
 * Actually, after listening to the entire song, I see that DJ Khaled's part is very small, almost non-existent. Alright, we can agree to add the certs to Rihanna's total.--Harout72 (talk) 02:19, 28 July 2017 (UTC)
 * Thanks Harout72 Ilikeriri (talk) 10:50, 28 July 2017 (UTC)

Michael Bolton
Harout... Sorry but could you please provide the update Bolton's certification sales total, I really think he's deserve to gain a place in this list with 75m-claim. He is an old artists and quite famous worldwide. Thanks Politsi (talk) 06:24, 29 July 2017 (UTC)
 * His certified sales are up by 100,000 units only, since the last time we discussed it, it's now 37.2 million. But again, the 60 million in actual sales as most sources claim including this, is more logical based on his available certified sales.--Harout72 (talk) 16:16, 29 July 2017 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 2 August 2017
Belgium: Something Just Like This - 2x Platinum Esambuu (talk) 01:26, 2 August 2017 (UTC)
 * Red information icon with gradient background.svg Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. jd22292 (Jalen D. Folf) (talk) 01:44, 2 August 2017 (UTC)

Barry White
Harout. I think we should terminate Barry White from this list, since his certification sales total only less than 22 million but his sales claim is too much. Please see this source (http://articles.chicagotribune.com/1990-05-31/features/9002140172_1_soul-ii-soul-british-sensations-girlfriend), Chicago Tribune 1990 article said that White only sell 30m of his records. He can not sell another 70m-records since 1990. So his sales claims are only in range 60-80m, until then he can not claim the 100m-seller status. Need your opinion before we kick his name out from this list. Thanks Politsi (talk) 05:46, 4 August 2017 (UTC)
 * The 30 million is just for the disco era, so the source says, not until 1990 when the article was published. He's definitely sold more records than just 30 million based on his certified sales. Most likely White's actual sales stand around 50-60 million. But we need another concrete source that can give us a lower claimed figure than 75 million, in order to remove him from the list.--Harout72 (talk) 13:25, 4 August 2017 (UTC)

Linkin Park
Why can't we add Linkin Park to the list? --TIAYN (talk) 06:59, 27 July 2017 (UTC)
 * All artists need to have certain amount of certified sales to be listed to the list based on the year they've begun charting. You should have read the lead, and the definitions. That said, Linkin Park have begun charting in 2000, therefore, their claim figures need to be supported by 70% certified sales, that's 70 million certified units needed for a claim as high as 100 million. Their certified sales are only 50.1 million. They could very soon be listed with 75 million sales claim, if there is such a claim out there available.--Harout72 (talk) 09:25, 27 July 2017 (UTC)
 * Isn't 50.1 million nearly or more than 70% percent of 75 million? --TIAYN (talk) 19:09, 27 July 2017 (UTC)
 * No, 50.1 million certified units are only 66.8% of the 75 million claim. 70% would be 52.5 million. Like I said Linkin Park are very close to be listed with 75 million, but we'll need a reliable source claiming 75 million records.--Harout72 (talk) 02:12, 28 July 2017 (UTC)
 * I get it, but at the same time don't. For instance, according to the Official Charts Company UK "In the End" has sold more than 600,000, but its not certified Platinum and Numb/Encore has sold 814,000. See her.... It just seems you've gone too far. The logical thing would be to contact the RIAA - buts thats maybe impossible? --TIAYN (talk) 19:31, 28 July 2017 (UTC)
 * I'm not sure what seems so confusing. The sales figures in the source you provided for "In the End" and "Numb/Encore" are completely inline with the Gold and Platinum of the BPI. For example "In the End" has just reached 618,000 units of sales by July 2017, and it was last certified Gold by BPI back in April 2015 for 400,000 units. Meaning, BPI will soon issue the Platinum cert as it just recently has reached the Platinum level. let me inform you that certifications are not automatic, there is a fee that the record companies need to submit to the certifying bodies all around the world in order to get their titles certified. Similarly, I can't understand what seems so confusing with "Numb/Encore". It's sold 840,000 units, and it's already certified Platinum in the UK for 600,000 units. What do you expect to see for the remaining 240,000 units? BPI doesn't operate like Germany's Bundesverband Musikindustrie, which certifies 3x Gold or 5x Gold after records pass the Platinum or multi-Platinum status. In other words, once "Numb/Encore" reaches 1,200,000 units of sales in the UK, BPI will issue 2x Platinum.--Harout72 (talk) 03:12, 29 July 2017 (UTC)

Harout, I'm on mobile phone now so I can not showing it to you, perhaps tommorrow. Please look at the Wikipedia profile, there is a News Organization called World Socialist Web Site. And is it possible to use that source for reference in the list?. Because today, that organization publish an article about Linkin Park which said has sold 75m albums and singles. If you think a source from World Socialist Web Site is reliable, then I will bring it here to use as Linkin Park's 75m claim support. Need your consideration. Thank you Politsi (talk) 14:59, 4 August 2017 (UTC)
 * Harout. here the source (https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2017/08/04/benn-a04.html) from World Socialist Web Site, an Online newspaper but concern in socialist. Need your help to calculate Linkin Park's certification sales total. If their certification can cover 75m-claim, then we can use that source to bring them to the list. But we use that source only for temporary until I get the better source. Need your help. Thanks Politsi (talk) 01:41, 5 August 2017 (UTC)
 * Their certified sales are now 50.9 million as UK just added 700,000 units just today to their total. They only need to have 52.5 million certified units to be listed with 75 million claim. And I think your source is something we can work with. All in all, we should be able to get them on the list very soon as they'll be collecting quite a few Gold and Platinum certification in the next few weeks due to lead vocalist's death.--Harout72 (talk) 02:06, 5 August 2017 (UTC)
 * Okay Harout, need your help to keep an eye on their certification sales. Having them on the list is very good to increase the reputation and reliability of the list. Thanks Politsi (talk) 03:34, 5 August 2017 (UTC)

Why does it say "Total available certified units" on every line?
First of all, a shoutout to the wonderful music contributors that have spent hours and hours compiling this list. For real, this is my favourite WP-article measured in usefulness. :) To the subject matter: why does it clarify the certified units twice for every artist? Once in the heading of each table, and once for every artist entry. Of course, it is important to highlight how the figure is calculated, but writing it twice? A (literal, not figural) waste of space on this page layout, in my humble opinion. I'll admit, if I had enough edits to edit this, I'd be bold enough to remove it straight away. But I guess the monster which we call consensus cannot be avoided sometimes. Gaioa (talk) 22:57, 6 August 2017 (UTC)
 * Therefore, I call for a minor relayout of the page: remove the  in front of every cert-figure, and keep the   in the table headings. To simplify reading.
 * Well, the reason for this is because the heading as it states Total certified units is meant to indicate that the column is used for certified sales in general, while each box states Total available certified units, indicating that in some cases, it is not the complete certified sales listed, but rather the available certified sales. To simplify it, lot of the music markets didn't actually have certification systems in earlier days when artists like Elvis Presley and even The Beatles were around. These older artists/bands often times do have certifications coming from those music markets for later released titles when those markets had begun issuing certifications. Yet the listed certified sales for those markets are not complete as earlier records have sold without being certified. That is the main reason why it says Total available certified sales. I'd personally be open to changing the heading from Total certified units to Certified sales/units.--Harout72 (talk) 02:44, 7 August 2017 (UTC)

Big Bang (100m records)
Harout. As I remember, someone mention about this South Korean band before. I find this source (http://www.chron.com/entertainment/music/article/12-photos-of-G-Dragon-during-his-Houston-debut-at-11305103.php) from Houston Chronicle, which state the band has sold 100m-records. How many of their certification sales total? Is it enough for 100m-claim?. Need your help. Btw there's no lower claim figures for them other than 100m. Thanks Politsi (talk) 05:25, 8 August 2017 (UTC)
 * Actually, they only have certified sales coming from Japan which stand at 2.1 million. I'm currently working on gathering their sales figures for mainly digitals, posted at S. Korean chart website. But this is only to see how high their actual sales can go. So far, without any major certifications available, they have no chance for this list.--Harout72 (talk) 12:39, 8 August 2017 (UTC)

Maroon 5
Harout, any update from their certification sales? are they ready to enter the list with 75m-claim?. Thanks Politsi (talk) 14:11, 8 August 2017 (UTC)
 * Yeap, there has been a major jump in their certified sales since our last discussion. Their certified sales are at 53 million units now. They only need another 400,000 units and we can put them up on the list. What's the source again for the 75 million figure? Once they are at 53.4 million with their certified sales, I'll put them on.--Harout72 (talk) 02:02, 9 August 2017 (UTC)
 * So far, the source from Billboard (http://www.billboard.com/articles/news/6784957/adam-levine-maroon-5-sign-wme) is the only source for Maroon 5's 75m-claim. While another reliable source like (http://www.union-bulletin.com/things_to_do/entertainment/maroon-to-perform-at-festival-in-pendleton/article_bfa317d8-0041-11e7-a00b-3bbbfdc011c3.html) saying an inflated Maroon 5's sales at 90m-claim. We can use the source from Billboard. Need your help. Thanks Politsi (talk) 10:12, 9 August 2017 (UTC)
 * Right, the article from Billboard is great. They should get on the list within a few weeks.--Harout72 (talk) 13:22, 9 August 2017 (UTC)

P!nk
EMI Music Publishing has renewed its long-term worldwide administration agreement with Pink, who has sold over 40 million albums and 70 million singles globally. (http://www.billboard.com/biz/articles/news/publishing/1098133/publishing-briefs-pink-re-ups-with-emi-universal-inks-danger) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 179.211.255.220 (talk) 23:40, 9 August 2017 (UTC)

Bobby Vinton
Harout... Have you ever heard Bobby Vinton?. This source (http://www.hollandsentinel.com/x342384611/Tulip-Time-Fab-Five) was saying that Vinton has sold 75m-records... Need your help if you have much time to check his certification sales. Thank you Politsi (talk) 11:10, 11 August 2017 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 11 August 2017
Change Celine Dion "Claimed Sales" range from 175-200 to 200-250 million and move her to the first group. Here are the sources that come from BILLBOARD and the JUNO awards that claim she has sold 250 million.

http://www.billboard.com/articles/news/bbma/7356823/celine-dion-icon-award-perform-2016-billboard-music-awards http://www.billboard.com/articles/columns/pop/7776996/the-illustrious-career-of-celine-dion http://junoawards.ca/nomination/04-2017-album-of-the-year-celine-dion/

Thx 184.70.6.150 (talk) 17:42, 11 August 2017 (UTC)
 * Refer to the Definitions on the main page for better understanding as to how the list is managed.--Harout72 (talk) 02:16, 12 August 2017 (UTC)

Linkin Park to 100m-club
Harout. I've seen there is significant increase of Park's certification sales. When their certification pass 75 million, I will bring them to the 100m-club with this source (http://www.independent.co.uk/news/obituaries/chester-bennington-linkin-park-lead-singer-fans-death-suicide-childhood-chris-cornell-nu-metal-a7858551.html). Need your opinion. Thanks Politsi (talk) 01:30, 17 August 2017 (UTC)
 * Yes, let's use the 100 million when they are close to 80 million. In the meantime, if there is another figure available for LP that stands between 75 and 100 million, we can use that.--Harout72 (talk) 01:45, 18 August 2017 (UTC)
 * That doesn't make sense.. Other bands on the list, from the 1990s, such as Backstreet Boys have the same amount of certified records as Linkin Park... --TIAYN (talk) 05:15, 18 August 2017 (UTC)
 * Had you at least once read the Definitions on the main page, everything would have begun to start make sense to you. That said, it clearly states This list uses claimed figures that are closest to artists' available certified units: inflated claimed figures that meet the required certified units amount but are unrealistically high, are not used. And the 100 million is inflated for Linkin Park for having 72 million certified units. However, once they collect at least another some 5 million in certified sales, and if by then we don't have any other sales figure that is between 100 million and 75 million, we'll go ahead and replace the current 75 million with the 100 million figure. But until then, they are ok for at least another 3 million, until at least they reach 75 million.--Harout72 (talk) 10:30, 18 August 2017 (UTC)

Boney M.,James Last and The Doors
With sales claims ranging of up to 150 million I would say an addition to the list wouldnt be too bad.I am looking for certification numbers to ensure that the claims are backed by at least 20%.

Claims for James Last range from 80 million to about 150 to even 200 million.

Also The Doors have sold at least 100 million records.There are more sources that cite 100 million rather than this lists 80 million.Many of the other bands on this lists have a lower number of certified units than The Doors, but are still listed higher.


 * First, sign your posts. As for The Doors' sales, we've had a discussion about them once already.--Harout72 (talk) 16:57, 20 August 2017 (UTC)
 * To be honest your explanation did not make much sense (was kind of crpytic):Also reliable sources state that the Doors have sold more than 100 million albums.This list should be based on facts/reliable sources, not someones personal guidelines.So it would be great if you would explain again why the 100 million claim does not fit in the article.

Anyway I hope you will consider also including the other acts I named you. Cheers mate. WikiEditCrunch (talk) 18:02, 20 August 2017 (UTC)
 * This list is based on facts as well as reliable sources. Your aforementioned acts do not have enough certified sales to be listed. James Last has only 10.4 million certified units, Boney M only 14.2 million certified units.--Harout72 (talk) 19:35, 20 August 2017 (UTC)

Alright thanks.But I still have problems understanding the The Doors sales claims issue (80 mil or 100 mil). Cheers! WikiEditCrunch (talk) 19:42, 20 August 2017 (UTC)

What Kind Of Sales?
This article doesn't specify whether the sales being discussed are singles, albums, or some combination. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Schnapps17 (talk • contribs) 03:11, 23 August 2017 (UTC)


 * It's in the first paragraph: "This list includes music artists with claims of 75 million or more record sales.--88marcus (talk) 03:19, 23 August 2017 (UTC)

Jackson's claim sources
Harout, I'm not sure. Need your help, what do you think about this source? (http://www.edp24.co.uk/going-out/celebrating-the-magic-of-michael-jackson-1-4874900) from Eastern Daily Press, is it the contain reliable to support Jackson's 350m-records?. Thanks Politsi (talk) 11:12, 23 August 2017 (UTC)
 * The source Eastern Daily Press, itself is reliable but the wording Thought to have sold isn't as it seems like the writer(s) were doubting their own facts.--Harout72 (talk) 13:15, 23 August 2017 (UTC)
 * I agree with you.. That's why I feel not confident to use that source for Jackson. Politsi (talk) 06:15, 24 August 2017 (UTC)

B'z
Harout, I need your opinion. I already move up the claim sales of Shania Twain and Coldplay to 90m-records. And I want to do the same thing to B'z with 90m-claim also, but this time I want to use this source (http://events.kroq.cbslocal.com/silverspring/events/bz-/E0-001-047656666-9) from KROQ-FM, which is one the CBS Corporation organization. I think this source is reliable for temporary because although it's a radio station but it's part of mass media organization. B'z claim sales source already too old (2005), we need something new. When I find the better source, I will replace it immediately. Need your opinion. Thanks Politsi (talk) 14:36, 24 August 2017 (UTC)
 * No, I wouldn't view KROQ as something reliable for us.--Harout72 (talk) 02:33, 25 August 2017 (UTC)

Separating Album sales and single sales into different columns
Counting both album and single sales as a single unit in the same column is kind of misleading. Would it make sense to have them in separate columns and then another column as combined? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Apophis82 (talk • contribs) 22:35, 27 August 2017 (UTC)

Madonna inflates her sales
According to her official website, she sold 200 million records in 2006 - http://www.madonna.com/news/title/madonna-tour-dates-announced

And 300 million as of 2015 - http://www.madonna.com/news/title/madonna-announces-performances-in-australia--new-zealand

How did she sell 100 million records just within 9 years? Her biggest seller in this time is Hard Candy which only sold 4 million copies. It means she lies her sales.

My suggestion is either put Nana on top with 400 million records sold according herself and others - http://www.nanamouskouri-50.com/index.php?cid=biographie-page4&var=biographie-page4

http://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/books/reviews/memoirs-by-nana-mouskouri-with-lionel-duroy-trans-jeremy-legatt-399950.html

or

put Rihanna on top who has highest certifications. Thank you. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 182.56.127.65 (talk) 15:00, 29 August 2017 (UTC)
 * On her site, it is only the album sales mentioned (200 million albums), read it again carefully. The term records which is what our sources use, stands for Albums, Singles, Videos.--Harout72 (talk) 02:07, 30 August 2017 (UTC)
 * When it was mentioned as albums, it was actually mentioned as records, the same way how Guinness puts she selling 300 million records as albums - http://www.guinnessworldrecords.com/world-records/best-selling-female-recording-artist — Preceding unsigned comment added by 182.56.88.69 (talk) 18:52, 30 August 2017 (UTC)

Guinness also inflates Madonna's records
Guinness wrote Madonna sold 275 million records in 2012 - http://www.guinnessworldrecords.com/news/2012/4/madonna-beats-elviss-no1-albums-record-as-mdna-tops-uk-chart

And 300 million records in 2014 - http://www.guinnessworldrecords.com/world-records/best-selling-female-recording-artist

How did she sell 25 million records in just 2 years? MDNA sold only 2 million copies. It proves Guinness inflates her records as well. She might be paying it to stay relevant. This 300 million records number in not backboned by IFPI either.

Again my suggestion is if certified records do not matter then either put Nana on top with 400 million records sold according herself and others - http://www.nanamouskouri-50.com/index.php?cid=biographie-page4&var=biographie-page4

http://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/books/reviews/memoirs-by-nana-mouskouri-with-lionel-duroy-trans-jeremy-legatt-399950.html

or

put Rihanna on top who has highest certified records. Thank you. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 182.56.72.3 (talk) 18:35, 31 August 2017 (UTC)

Pitbull
Harout, need your help to check his certification sales so far. Is it adequate to get the 76m-claim sales? (http://www.sundaytimes.lk/170507/magazine/pitbull-to-rock-colombo-238955.html) Thanks. Politsi (talk) 07:57, 2 September 2017 (UTC)
 * Pitbull would need that 76 million claim supported by 55 million certified units (or 72.6%) as he's begun charting in 2004. I quickly looked at his US certified sales, which stand at 23.5 million. Surely, he can't have 31.5 million from the rest of the world. It would be waste of time to sit down and put together a file for him when his US certified sales are that low. Clearly that 76m is inflated.--Harout72 (talk) 12:38, 2 September 2017 (UTC)

Nicky Minaj
Harout, need your help. How many of her certification sales so far. As I remember from our last discussion last year, she only need less than 5 million to gain the 85m-claim sales (http://www.caribpress.com/2013/06/07/nicki-minaj-signs-up-spokesperson-and-investor-for-moscato-wine/). And how about Maroon 5? we could bring them to the list now?. Thanks Politsi (talk) 06:40, 9 September 2017 (UTC)
 * Since our last discussion Nicki Minaj's certified sales have changed quite a bit. She now has 71.3 million certified units. That figure is safe enough to put her on the list considering the over certifications due to streaming. She needs 65 million certified (or 76.6%) as she's begun charting in 2010. So I will go ahead and put her up on the list today.
 * As for Maroon 5, they are still stuck at 53 million certified units being short of 400,000 units. Pretty much it's unchanged since our last discussion.--Harout72 (talk) 16:28, 9 September 2017 (UTC)

ABBA
Harout, I need your opinion. Please look at this source (http://don411.com/the-arcadia-performing-arts-foundation-concert-season-begins-on-january-9-2016-at-8pm-when-abbamania-and-night-fever-perform-at-the-arcadia-performing-arts-center/#.WbZ0iDsxXIV), inside it's talk about ABBA's 140m-claim, but I'm not sure that source is reliable although the website claim they are a news service. What do you think?. Thanks Politsi (talk) 11:37, 11 September 2017 (UTC)
 * I wouldn't view that source reliable enough for our list. Although, the sales figure is more reasonable than the 200 million that we have.--Harout72 (talk) 11:58, 11 September 2017 (UTC)
 * But Harout, if that source is a legal news service, then we can use that source to put ABBA at 140m-claim. Again, I need your final opinion. If that source is a legal news service and not a blog or a private diary. I will use that source, because ABBA is too much inflated their claim sales and is our responsibility to open the fact about their real sales. Need your consideration...Thanks Politsi (talk) 12:31, 11 September 2017 (UTC)
 * Harout. I've change my mind, that's source is not reliable for the list... We should maintain the highest quality of the source in the list. Thanks. Politsi (talk) 15:08, 11 September 2017 (UTC)

Mariah Carey
Mariah's total certified sales has increased from 118 million to almost 136 million... Is it time to increase her total sales claim to 225 million? fidelovkurt 17:33, 13 September 2017 (UTC)
 * When we had a discussion about Mariah Carey back in January 2016, she was already at 131 million with her certified sales. Now it's at 135.9. The difference isn't big enough to re-visit that discussion. We shouldn't consider using the 225 million claim unless her certified sales get close to the 175 million mark, which is our lower listed claim figure. There is still some 40 million units of gap standing between her certified sales and that figure. That gap needs to be eliminated first.--Harout72 (talk) 19:15, 13 September 2017 (UTC)

Green Day
Harout.. How far of their certification sales total so far? is there any significant increase?. Thanks Politsi (talk) 10:30, 14 September 2017 (UTC)
 * They're still 2.2 million certified units short. They are at 47.6 million, they need 49.8 million (66.4%) as they've begun charting in 1994.--Harout72 (talk) 13:16, 14 September 2017 (UTC)

Certifications and Sales claim for P!nk, Beyonce, Sade and Rihanna
Can we please have a list of certifications for P!nk, I'm pretty sure she can fit into one of these categories and don't you think it's about time we move Beyonce to the 100 million section, I know because of the time she began charting that she needs between 75-80 million certified units, she's at 78 million right now, even if we decide that she needs the maximum certification which is 80 million, she's only two million away. Can we also have Rihanna's sales claim updated to 270 million and can we add Sade to the 75 million records list, providing that she has the certified units to back up such claims of course. (190.80.50.137 (talk) 00:32, 16 September 2017 (UTC))

Beyonce
Harout, I think it's time to bring Beyonce to the 100m-club. she's already in 78m-units. And we should not kept the source from Daily Mail in a long time. I'll bring Beyonce to the 100m-club but please undo it if you think she's still not deserve it. Thanks Politsi (talk) 03:20, 16 September 2017 (UTC)
 * Isn't there a source that claims 90 million. Moving her immediately to the 100 section might not be right. We should at least wait until she passed the 80 million mark with her certified sales.--Harout72 (talk) 03:30, 16 September 2017 (UTC)
 * No, I'm pretty sure on that. I've been searching for years to find the 90m-claim for Beyonce, but zero. My concern is that the source we use for her 85m-claim is Daily Mail and is not good keeping a gossip news website for years in the list, beside she's in 78 million certified sales, at least better than Rod Stewart for now. We should let her entering the 100m-club. Again, I believe you're better than me on this. Please revert it if you feel is not the right time for Beyonce, but from my personal view it's time for her to claim the 100m-seller status...Politsi (talk) 04:49, 16 September 2017 (UTC)
 * Ok, it's fine, I'm sure it won't take her too long to pass the 80 million mark.--Harout72 (talk) 05:03, 16 September 2017 (UTC)

Shania Twain to the 100m-club
Harout, after full consideration. I decided to bring Twain to the 100m-club, her certification has pass 75 million and she has start her chart career since 1993. She will release her new albums, Now on September 2017, meaning that her certification sales soon will be close to 80 million. I will use this source for her 100m-claim (http://www.getsurrey.co.uk/whats-on/music-nightlife-news/shania-twain-announces-headline-london-13643341). But, if you think it's not the right time for Shania to join the prestigious 100m-club. Please revert it. I need your advise. Thanks Politsi (talk) 04:57, 22 September 2017 (UTC)
 * Let's wait for her certified sales to reach the 82-85 million range, then we'll update it. I don't think she'll be able to add that many Gold and Platinum certifications with her new album. But maybe older releases will get re-certified. In any case, she's ok for now with 90 million. Also, let's bear in mind that most of her success comes from the English speaking countries who've always had certification systems since the beginning of her career. In other words, we're not missing certifications from other countries, also she's not an early beginner.--Harout72 (talk) 09:40, 22 September 2017 (UTC)
 * I agree, but I think we can up her position to the 100m-club when she pass 80 million certified sales.Politsi (talk) 10:06, 22 September 2017 (UTC)

BIGBANG 빅뱅
Harout,Can you please add BIGBANG 빅뱅 they sold up to 140m, here is some realible sources : SRC1      

+ i Have a Sources of 120,976,099 million certified units Exactly https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_Bang_discography Please review those numbers i believe they are 100% accurate.

| MRAU-vip — Preceding Hamza.A comment added by MRAU-vip (talk • contribs) 16:45, 20 September 2017 (UTC)
 * Those are not certified sales, those are download sales figures. This list requires certified sales. Only Japan has certified sales for Big Bang, and the total there is 2.115 million. However, out of curiousity I went as far as adding up all the download figures for all singles that appear on Geon charts. I put them all on a single file. My total for Korean figures comes to just over 45 million units. With Japan's certified sales it's about 47.5 million. The total for China taken from the singles table is 22.8 million, I'm not even gonna bother with verifying those. How can anybody claim 140 million records sales for them. Clearly that is just an inflated promotional figure.--Harout72 (talk) 03:21, 21 September 2017 (UTC)

Sorry Harout but the list you added is incomplete, you have not added many songs that have certifications, you said '''I'm not even gonna bother with verifying those. How can anybody claim 140 million records sales for them''' you need to verify them because they sold 140M+ its not depending in your opinion, the rules are clear if i give you certified link of these numbers you need to accept them, + BIGBANG IS VERY KNOWN AND THEY ARE BIGGEST BOY BAND IN THE WORLD, if you don't know them that's its not my probleme, i see 140m is VERY LOW compared to their achievements, so you need to do what this page is about and you need to put them in the list, because if i started calculating all artist in this list so some of them they gonna be out of the list because they have inflated promotional figure in thier Source link, do your research next time Correctly, i just calculate thier numbers based on the rules on this section and here is The real Numbers : 71.572 Million in Total, FORBES Last Year Stated : BIGBANG EARNED 44million in 2016 Only (https://www.forbes.com/sites/zackomalleygreenburg/2016/07/06/bigbang-theory-how-k-pops-top-act-earned-44-million-in-a-year/#6da108315830), Think of it logically they can earn 44M in one year and they can't sold 140M in their whole career ? Read THIS https://www.usatoday.com/story/life/entertainthis/2016/04/21/bigbang-biggest-boy-band-world-you-probably-havent-heard/83197506/

DO YOU STILL THINK THAT THIS A SMALL GROUP AND THEY CAN'T SOLD 140M ? btw Here is the list with Sales and certifications : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_Bang_discography#Singles So Please if you can't calculate their sales, i can do it for you ^^ — Preceding comment added by MRAU-vip (talk • contribs) 16:25, 21 September 2017 (UTC)
 * You need to learn the difference between certified sales and actual sales. This list as I mentioned above is based on certified sales, not actual sales. And I don't need to have every week's small figures that represent some few thousands of units, I just needed to to be convinced if their sales could get anywhere close to even 100 million. My research shows that it's impossible. With no success in the western world, I'm not sure how they could have sold 140 million records in medium to small sized Asian markets. And one more thing, just because reliable sources claim huge figures such as 140 million, it doesn't necessarily make it accurate. This is not the first time I'm seeing inflated figures.--Harout72 (talk) 16:50, 21 September 2017 (UTC)

i really appreciate your hard work, but downgrade a group achievement is not good, i know the difference between certified sales and actual sales, maybe all of BIGBANG Static sales came from GAON , Guess what , GAON are supperted by Korea Music Content Industry Association' (KMCIA) and (RIAK) recording industry association of korea http://www.kmcia.or.kr/sales/source http://www.riak.or.kr/chart/gaon_total.asp wich means all sales provided there are certified sales, do you research correctly — Preceding unsigned comment added by MRAU-vip (talk • contribs) 17:30, 21 September 2017 (UTC)

Just a by passer who happened to come across this talk page, I quote: "My research shows that it's impossible. With no success in the western world, I'm not sure how they could have sold 140 million records in medium to small sized Asian markets." I believe because you don't know how big Big Bang really is (because your knowledge appears to only be limited to the western market) let me just mention that minus the western market, the Asian market is the next biggest market especially the amount of revenues that come from South Korea, China and Japan. I'll leave you with this short video covered by CNN, just because one hasn't heard of a group doesn't mean they're not big, because I have an insightful knowledge on pop culture I can clearly see that they most certainly are able to sell 140+ million records throughout their 10 years of their careers (also as the person above stated all sales are certified under the KMCIA and RIAK) it's very much possible: http://edition.cnn.com/videos/world/2016/09/08/talk-asia-big-bang-spc-c.cnn (Watch from 0:00 - 1:09) I won't argue on this matter just wanted to provide you with some knowledge to understand how big they really are. Rain Forest (talk) 06:00, 22 September 2017 (UTC)
 * Rain Forest, let me inform you that revenues of countries do not determine the size of their music markets. That said, China has the largest GDP in the world, whereas their music market only ranks number 12 on the IFPI annual chart. In other words, China having the largest GDP, generates as much music sales as Sweden. It's both the economy and the per capita of the country that decide the size of the music market. If they were enormously successful in Japan, then yes, I could understand the 140 million being true. But such isn't the case here as they have 2.115 million certified units coming from Japan. Undoubtedly, Big Bang is one of Asian major bands/artists, but the news services only repeat the sales figures given to them by artists' record companies, they never try to verify those figures. Anyways, with no major certified sales, it's futile to even continue this discussion as I have already mentioned that this list is based on certified sales.--Harout72 (talk) 09:59, 22 September 2017 (UTC)

@Harout27 They are Biggest boy band in the world not only asia + Their sales are CERTIFIED http://www.kmcia.or.kr/sales/source http://www.riak.or.kr/chart/gaon_total.asp comment added by MRAU-vip   — Preceding (talk • contribs) 02:22, 23 September 2017 (UTC)

Eminem
Hello sorry to bother you Billboard.com made an update about Eminem total sales. Eminem is at 172 million albums sold now.

Rakim69 (talk) 16:30, 25 September 2017 (UTC) Rakim69

Metallica to 120m-club
Harout, I've seen their certification sales has pass 94 million. I think it's time for us to raise their level sales club to 120m by using this source (http://www.mercurynews.com/2016/04/16/metallica-celebrates-record-store-day-in-berkeley-with-live-performance/). Need your advise before I move their position. Thank you. Politsi (talk) 04:27, 27 September 2017 (UTC)
 * Exactly one year ago, their certified sales were at 91.5. There is no need to consider at this point to upgrade their claim figure as in a period of one whole year their certified sales have gone up by only 2.5 million units.. We should only consider upgrading it when they're close to 100 million.--Harout72 (talk) 13:03, 27 September 2017 (UTC)

Ed Sheeran
Harout, are there any sources for him? If I counted correctly, he has 45.5 million units in US and 29.06 in UK alone so it's enough to support a 96 million claim. With the rest of certifications he would be able to support a over 100 million claim.
 * He's begun charting in 2011, therefore, he needs his claim figures supported by 77.2%. That would be 77.2 million certified units required for 100 million. I personally haven't come across any sources, but if you do in the future, let me know.--Harout72 (talk) 16:17, 28 September 2017 (UTC)

Drake's Certifications
Where does Drake's certification lie. Is it enough to add him to the list? As well as Mary J Blige, TLC and Toni Braxton. I have read somewhere that both of them have claimed sales of 75 million and over. Can a check of their certified units be done.

Regards (190.80.50.137 (talk) 16:09, 14 September 2017 (UTC))
 * He has enough certified sales to make it between 75-95 million records. The problem is, I can't find a single article with those claimed figures. It's really annoying that these news outlets are more focused on the streaming records that he's broken, than the fact that he's sold this many records. -- Bobtinin  (talk)  00:10, 25 September 2017 (UTC)
 * I will try to find it for him too. Politsi (talk) 02:55, 29 September 2017 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 29 September 2017
80.67.137.12 (talk) 08:47, 29 September 2017 (UTC) Britney Spears has sold 200 million records worldwide, including 100 million albums and 100 million singles. Source: https://fotpforums.com/topic/102816-britney-spears-6th-best-selling-female-worlwide-sales-and-figures-official-topic/
 * Read the definitions on the main page.--Harout72 (talk) 12:59, 29 September 2017 (UTC)

Bruno Mars
Total sales in the US should be around 85 million instead of 84,5. His last single, "Versace on the Floor", was certified Gold by the RIAA and not yet updated here. MarioSoulTruthFan (talk) 10:23, 26 September 2017 (UTC)


 * "Versace on the Floor" is included in the US total. See this detailed file for Bruno Mars' certifications, whatever you see on that file, is included.--Harout72 (talk) 13:09, 26 September 2017 (UTC)
 * "Bubble Butt" is certified Gold and it's not included in the file. The same goes for "Versace on The Floor" in Italy. Therefore, his sales in US should be around 85 million. I thought it was the most recent single that was not included yet. Thank you for the file btw. MarioSoulTruthFan (talk) 21:03, 27 September 2017 (UTC)
 * "Bubble Butt" involves two many artists, therefore, the US Gold isn't included. See the bottom of all the yellow boxes at the top of this talk page, it specifies when certification awards are included. I still haven't updated this week's Italian certified sales, I will soon.--Harout72 (talk) 21:44, 27 September 2017 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the info. On the other hand, "Chunky" just got certified Gold. MarioSoulTruthFan (talk) 23:07, 27 September 2017 (UTC)

Harout, I've decided to raise Mars's records sales to 130m-claim because I feel that 124m is too low since he already has pass 118m certification sales. Is that ok? Thanks. Politsi (talk) 13:09, 29 September 2017 (UTC)
 * That's fine, it doesn't create that much a gap between the certified sales and 130 million.--Harout72 (talk) 14:25, 29 September 2017 (UTC)
 * I just noticed that "Young, Wild & Free" became certified Silver in the Uk back in 2015. However, it was never added to Wikipedia or even here. In order to access this certification, you have to type "Young Wild Free". No commas or ampersand. Please do that whenever you can, thank you. MarioSoulTruthFan (talk) 11:51, 30 September 2017 (UTC)
 * It's added now.--Harout72 (talk) 15:45, 30 September 2017 (UTC)

Italian singer
Why Adriano Celentano with 150 mil of copies dont show in list?

1 – Adriano Celentano 150 milioni; 2 – Mina 150 milioni; 3 – Patty Pravo 110 milioni; 4 – Luciano Pavarotti 100 milioni; 5 – Giorgio Moroder 100 milioni; 6 – Toto Cutugno 100 milioni; 7 – Andrea Bocelli 85 milioni; 8 – Umberto Tozzi 75 milioni; 9 – Pooh 70 milioni; 10 – Laura Pausini 70 milioni; 11 – Ennio Morricone 70 milioni; 12 – Domenico Modugno 60 milioni; 13 – Eros Ramazzotti 55 milioni; 14 – Zucchero 55 milioni; 15 – Edoardo Vianello

Pls include also italian singer.. Thks Enaud (talk) 22:04, 3 October 2017 (UTC)

Rihanna
Harout, her certification sales has pass 225 million. So when we can raise her up to 264m-claim? Because I think it's time for her to join the most prestigious 250m-club with 264m claim (http://www.azcentral.com/story/entertainment/music/2015/11/23/rihanna-anti-world-tour-phoenix-concert/76285950/). Need your help. Thanks Politsi (talk) 11:01, 5 October 2017 (UTC)
 * I looked at her certified sales on my file here, her total US certified sales gets chopped off by 28.6 million units when I use the actual sales figures for all those albums/singles that do have available actual sales figures. So her grand total comes down to 196.5 million when some of her US certified sales generated mainly by streaming are ignored. And that is only when we do that with the US, all other key markets certify based on sales and streaming also. We shouldn't even consider anything higher for her unless she's well above 240 million with her certified sales.--Harout72 (talk) 13:23, 5 October 2017 (UTC)

MC - "Honey"
Hey Harout, long time. I was reading your edit notes through the last few months or so, and can't seem to find anything on Carey's song "Honey". The BPI certified it Silver a few months ago so I'm just double checking it wasn't overlooked. Cheers!-- Peter Griffin  &bull;  Talk2Me   03:09, 7 October 2017 (UTC)
 * Hey Nathan, it's surely been a long time. Yeah, the UK's Silver I added the same day it was posted on BPI's site. It's also on my file.--Harout72 (talk) 12:13, 7 October 2017 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 14 October 2017
Bon Jovi has currently sold more than 130 million units of records worldwide and it is said on another Wikipedia page. If possible, try to correct this, if not please explain why it doesn't need to be changed. Thank You. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bon_Jovi 71.179.206.197 (talk) 04:30, 14 October 2017 (UTC)
 * You might want to read the definitions on the main page.--Harout72 (talk) 12:38, 14 October 2017 (UTC)

Katy Perry (143m-claim)
Harout, please look at this source (http://www.providencejournal.com/news/20170515/katy-perry-coming-to-mohegan-sun-in-september). The Providence Journal said that Perry has sold 143 million, but that claim sales come from the capital records. I think we can use this source for temporary until I find the better one and Perry's certification has pass 127 million. She able to get the 143m-claim. I will move perry to the higher club. But please revert it if what I do is not reliable for her. Thanks Politsi (talk) 04:37, 17 October 2017 (UTC)
 * Politsi, the 143 million for Katy Perry is inflated. Her US certified sales alone go down by 20 million units when I use the actual sales vs streaming generated certified sales. Her total certified sales drops from 127 million to 107 million, and leaves a huge gap between the 143 million and 107 million. So if we're going to upgrade her claim figure, it should be something between 110 and 125 million.--Harout72 (talk) 13:00, 17 October 2017 (UTC)
 * Okay. Thanks Politsi (talk) 13:10, 17 October 2017 (UTC)

Coldplay - 100m Claim?
I think now Coldplay should be considered as 100 million record seller. Esambuu (talk) 08:41, 18 October 2017 (UTC)
 * What do you think Harout? Is it the right time for Coldplay to be in the 100m-club with their recent certification sales? Politsi (talk) 12:02, 19 October 2017 (UTC)
 * They are ok for now. We'll consider the 100 million when they're around the 82-85 million mark with their certified sales. We still have 15 million gap sitting between their current certified sales and the claim.--Harout72 (talk) 12:54, 19 October 2017 (UTC)

Coldplay - Certified Sales
Hello, i need Coldplay's certification data. Thank you Esambuu (talk) 02:09, 1 November 2017 (UTC)

Backstreet Boys - Claimed Sales
I think the 100 million claimed sales for the Backstreet Boys is wrong and should be updated as they actually have 130+ million and therefore should be in the category above. You can find proof on many websites including other Wikipedia pages. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Bsbfanforever 1993 (talk • contribs) 01:55, 5 November 2017 (UTC)

Coldplay - Ink (Correction)
Ink has certified Gold in 2015 in Italy (15,000 units) Now Ink has certified Platinum in Italy (30,000 unites) as 2014 release. Esambuu (talk) 03:08, 7 November 2017 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 11 November 2017
I would like to place an edit on the units Bon Jovi has sold for this article, citing their Wikipedia page. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bon_Jovi. I would appreciate if you or me was given this request. Billy50 (talk) 16:56, 11 November 2017 (UTC)
 * This list uses those available claim sales that are closest to the artists' certified sales. This is all also stated in the Definitions.--Harout72 (talk) 17:21, 11 November 2017 (UTC)

For the band Bon Jovi, their claimed sales are at 100 million, however it should say 130 million. I am referring to the claimed sales, not the claimed figures or certified units. I would like you to change this, even their own Wikipedia page states that they have sold over 130 million units. Again, I am not referring to their certified sales. Billy50 (talk) 21:00, 11 November 2017 (UTC)
 * Please refrain from reposting the request template. As I mentioned above, we use those claimed sales which are in the neighborhood of the currently listed certified sales. Again, read the Definitions on the main page, that should help you understand how the list is operated.--Harout72 (talk) 21:10, 11 November 2017 (UTC)

Double counting certified units
In the world of album-equivalent units, I think we should reconsider how we should represent certified units on this page. The RIAA has revised their criteria for album certification by counting 15,000 streams = 1 certified album, as well as 10 song downloads = 1 certified album. So today, an album with 2x platinum doesn't automatically mean having shipped 2 million copies anymore. The problem is that there's also digital single certification, which required 150 streams = 1 certified unit and 1 song downloads = 1 certified unit. This clearly made the album's certification and the single's certification become overlapping.

For example: let's say Drake's "One Dance" sold 5,000,000 downloads and was streamed 1,500,000,000 times. How many certified units does he get? Well... see? In this example, "One Dance" which only sold 5 million copies can generate 16.5 million certified units through the current RIAA methodology. That's way Rihanna or Taylor Swift certified numbers look so much inflated. I personally say, let's stick to album certifications because they've already counted all their songs' streams and downloads. What do you think? Let's discuss. Bluesatellite (talk) 15:35, 12 November 2017 (UTC)
 * 5,000,000 downloads = 5 million certified units (single)
 * 5,000,000 downloads = 500,000 album equivalent = 0.5 million certified units (album)
 * 1,500,000,000 streams = 10,000,000 track equivalent = 10 million certified units (single)
 * 1,500,000,000 streams = 1,000,000 album equivalent = 1 million certified units (album)
 * We discussed this back in June of 2016. We can't ignore singles certifications only because Streaming helps get singles reach the required certified levels easily. We're already being very careful when upgrading the claimed figures for newer artists. In other words, we look at all available actual sales of both albums and singles for newer artists when there is a discussion about upgrading the sales. One such discussion is Katy Perry's. As you may have noticed, almost all newer artists' sales claims are being kept pretty tight to their certified sales. In fact, some of them including Katy Perry and Justin Bieber have much higher certified sales than sales claims. As for Drake's "One Dance", in Jan. 2017, it was reported that it's sold 2 million units, while in Sep. 2016, it was certified 4x Plat. it's not as far off as you're suggesting above.--Harout72 (talk) 16:53, 12 November 2017 (UTC)


 * My "One Dance" figure is definitely fake, it's just an example. LOL. I'm just trying to describe how a hit song's performance can inflate the certifications for both its single and album. I appreciated that you are carefully check the SoundScan numbers before updating claimed figures for newer artists. However, I still believe that one song download (worth $0.99) should not be treated as the same "unit" as one CD album purchase (worth $15). That's why they introduced album equivalent units, because such comparison isn't fair. Do we really say Rihanna is a better seller than Whitney Houston. By using album equivalent method, Rihanna's 200 million song downloads = 20 million albums. Whitney's The Bodyguard alone sold way more than 30 million albums. Bluesatellite (talk) 23:17, 12 November 2017 (UTC)
 * Most downloads are $1.29 including Drake's song you brought up as an example. Downloads per track are not cheap compared to physical singles we used to buy in the US market for $3, which would include three and even more tracks. Rihanna actually is no less seller than Whitney Houston. While I'm not a fan at all, I believe the number of Rihanna's downloads are absolutely incredible. By the way, the CDs in the US market don't cost more than $11-12 on average, often times it's less, see Whitney's CDs. Albums in US never cost $15 in the past either, the price for albums would range from $7.99 to maximum $11.99. It's the double CDs that would cost between $15 - $17. Cassette albums were much cheaper. Certifications of Whitney Houston and other older artists' albums are based on all formats, Cassettes (which cost not more than $5-7), CDs and Vinyls. No need to discount downloads.--Harout72 (talk) 00:32, 13 November 2017 (UTC)

Beyonce update figures?
The District Bey website has Beyonce's most recent total record sales as 271 million as of October 2017, however, it has Destiny's Child's sales figures factored in. District Bey. I am not sure if acts who were once apart of a group have those figures factored in or not; the most obvious comparison would be Michael Jackson. --Nk3play2 my buzz 02:46, 17 November 2017 (UTC)

Britney Spears
Britney Spears figures are way under stated. She sold 76 million albums worldwide and close to 100 million singles. Including DVD's she easily would have reach 180 million records. That is an 80 million records difference and way off the acceptable margin. Whoever did this page needs to correct it.

Boney M.
Shouldn't Boney M. be on here as they have 150m+ record sales? It says so on their wikipedia page and there are references for that.

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 18 November 2017
According to the RIAA (https://www.riaa.com/gold-platinum/?tab_active=awards_by_artist#search_section), Taylor Swift has sold 26.5 million units in the United States, not 135.5 million as the drop down menu asserts. This also changes the amount of "Total certified units" by 109 million. She should therefore be moved off of these lists, as the numbers do not qualify her for even the 75-79 million section. Shkee23 (talk) 22:01, 18 November 2017 (UTC)
 * Are you also aware that RIAA has a tab for Top Digital certifications? That said, here is Swift's solo digital accomplishments from RIAA.--Harout72 (talk) 22:18, 18 November 2017 (UTC)

Green Day
Someone should re-add Green Day. They were on this list and some hater probably removed them. I can't edit the page. 184.157.52.236 (talk) 19:31, 19 November 2017 (UTC)

External links modified
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Maroon 5
Harout, their new album already certified. Are they ready to enter the list with 75m-claim?. Thanks Politsi (talk) 03:51, 20 November 2017 (UTC)
 * I think they should be ready, I'll check today and add them if they have their required number of certified units. Was this the source for 75 million?.--Harout72 (talk) 16:18, 20 November 2017 (UTC)
 * Yes. We can use that source. Politsi (talk) 23:18, 20 November 2017 (UTC)

Bryan Adams's 65m claim
Harout, currently a lot of reliable source since 2016 to date said that adams sold only "65m records". Even his official website claim that same sales for him, while we still kept his name on the list with 100m sales. Adams's total certified units are less then 45m, so we should re-considered his position on the list. I suggest we put his position to the 75m list, it's much more reliable than 100m claim which is also quite inflated. What do you think?. Thanks Politsi (talk) 03:11, 26 November 2017 (UTC)
 * Sure, if there is a reliable source that claims 75 million, we definitely should move him into the 75 million. Based on his certified sales, he couldn't have sold anything more than 75 million.--Harout72 (talk) 13:32, 26 November 2017 (UTC)
 * It's nearly impossible to find a current reliable source (since 2015 to date) for Adam's 75m-claim, I will use this source (http://www.eadt.co.uk/news/bryan-adams-set-to-play-newmarket-1-186488) from East Anglian Daily Times for Adam's 75m claim. It was updated in 2010 but I think it's okay since I found that Adams only sold a little records since 2008. We can use it for temporary until I find the better one. Is that okay Harout?. Politsi (talk) 18:17, 27 November 2017 (UTC)

Justin Bieber (140m records)
Harout, I see Bieber's certification sales has pass 130 million. I think we should move him up to the higher level. Please look at this source (http://www.pressreader.com/canada/metro-canada-halifax/20171013/281749859579642) from NewspaperDirect Inc., inside it said Bieber has sold 140m-records. What do you think?, we can move him up now?. Thanks Politsi (talk) 18:45, 27 November 2017 (UTC)
 * That's too high, because his US certified sales alone get chopped off by 26.1 million units when the actual sales figures are counted for those single that have available sales figures vs the same singles that are over certified due to streaming. So his total certified sales go down by 26.1 million, from 130.5 mill to 104.4 mill. And that is for the US market. Streaming helps worldwide now to get singles and albums over certified. Perhaps, when Bieber's at 140 million with his certified sales, we'll consider that figure also to upgrade his sales.--Harout72 (talk) 20:50, 27 November 2017 (UTC)

Christina Aguilera
Harout. I need your help. How many of her certification sales total? I feel she is deserve to be on the list and I'm still working on to find a reliable source for her. Is it possible for her to get 80m-claim?. I'm curious and hopefully you can help me. Thanks. Politsi (talk) 07:31, 30 November 2017 (UTC)
 * Aguilera has begun charting in 1999, therefore, her claims should be supported by 64.4% certified sales. For a claim as high as 75 million, she'd need 52.050 million certified units, and her certified sales are already at 51.6 million. So if you locate a reliable source claiming 75 million records, I'll be sure to put her up on the list when she collects another 500,000 certified units.--Harout72 (talk) 14:53, 30 November 2017 (UTC)

Best of best selling music artists: Inaccuracies
Hi,

I hope you don't mind me pointing out the following, with respect...

The issue with this page is it's not using weight figures, so as it is, selling downloads at $1 is worth the same as selling an album for $15, which puts the likes Rihanna higher than Celine Dion The Rolling Stones. I'm sure you can see the issue with this.

For a good example of the correct analysis, go through this page Chartmasters Queen page and you'll find that it's been researched thoroughly (you can click the black boxes - there's 63 of them for Queen alone). http://chartmasters.org/2017/10/cspc-queen-popularity-analysis/63/

Some artists haven't yet been covered (for example, Elton John, Elvis), but we have a much better idea via Chartmasters. Despite Elvis and Elton John not yet being added (those are being worked on), Wiki should look more like this...

ARTISTS RANKING – CSPC – OVERALL SALES

1. The Beatles – 405,737,000 2. Michael Jackson – 323,741,000 3. Madonna – 241,135,000 4. Queen – 238,637,000 5. The Rolling Stones – 237,135,000 6. Pink Floyd – 229,426,000 7. Led Zeppelin – 200,459,000 8. U2 – 194,519,000 9. Céline Dion – 193,422,000 10. Mariah Carey – 167,149,000 11. Bruce Springsteen – 157,024,000 12. Bee Gees – 156,874,000 13. ABBA – 156,623,000 14. Eminem – 154,954,000 15. Whitney Houston – 151,693,000 16. Billy Joel – 146,695,000 17. Fleetwood Mac – 144,842,000 18. Bon Jovi – 144,095,000 19. Bob Dylan – 142,291,000 20. Metallica – 139,406,000

The list continues past 20 also (check the link below)

It's worth exploring this website and you'll find how well researched the information is

http://chartmasters.org/2017/10/cspc-data-collector/9/

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Album-equivalent_unit

This is the method used now. From another Wiki page:

"Album-equivalent unit From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The standard of an album-equivalent unit in the United States, according to the RIAA and Billboard magazine. The album-equivalent unit is a measurement unit in music industry to define the consumption of music which equals the purchase of one album copy.[1][2] This consumption includes streaming and song downloads, in addition to traditional album sales. The album-equivalent unit was introduced in the mid-2010s as an answer to the drop of album sales in the 21st century. Album sales more than halved from 1999 to 2009, declining from a $14.6 to $6.3 billion industry.[3] For instance, the only albums that went platinum in the United States in 2014 were the Frozen soundtrack and Taylor Swift's 1989, whereas several artists did in 2013.[4][5]

The usage of the album-equivalent units revolutionized the charts from the "best-selling albums" ranking into the "most popular albums" ranking.[6] The International Federation of the Phonographic Industry (IFPI) have used album-equivalent unit to measure their Global Recording Artist of the Year since 2013.[7]"

1) Sign your posts. 2) Keep your posts brief. 3) Do your research properly, the RIAA has certified countless number of albums in 2014.--Harout72 (talk) 23:26, 29 November 2017 (UTC) Will1111 (talk) 23:53, 29 November 2017 (UTC)

Hi,

Which part of the Chartmasters analysis do you think isn't researched? Try the Queen page, for example (as mentioned above). This starts at page one and runs you through it (see the black boxes below the text on each page): http://chartmasters.org/2017/10/cspc-queen-popularity-analysis/

Which part of it do you disagree with? I ask this a place to start, and from your response I'm not sure you understood what I meant by weight figures (along with citing the album equivalent unit Wiki page also). Will1111 (talk) 02:21, 30 November 2017 (UTC)
 * I suggest you read the Definitions on the main page, that should help you understand how the list is operated. Also, I have already discussed this with another editor, see this discussion.--Harout72 (talk) 03:55, 30 November 2017 (UTC)

The issue here is the double-flaw of overlap / lowest criteria. If a song sells 5 million downloads, it counts as 500,000 albums AND 5 million downloads, which creates double-counting. It doesn't change the picture much if you look at album sales OR single sales, but when you put them together, it gives this: Artist A releases an album which sells 500,000 units. His album goes Gold according to the RIAA. Artist B releases a single which sells 5 million units. His album goes Gold according to the RIAA, the single is eligible for 5xP. Please notice that the same units can be certified twice, but the RIAA does that because they are careful in never adding both tallies (which would mean double-count) together. They are two point of views, we can say that the artist B sold units worth 500,000 albums or 5 million singles.

As per the Wikipedia methodology, artist A sold 500,000 records while artist B sold 5,500,000 records. It means that sales which are considered as perfectly equivalent by the RIAA are represented with an 11 to 1 gap,. 2.96.149.103 (talk) 08:20, 1 December 2017 (UTC)2.96.149.103 (talk)

B'z to 100m List
Harout. Today I decided to move B'z to 100m-club, they deserve to be in that place considering their certification sales are over 85 million and they already start their career since 1988. And their current source for their sales claim is old enough already. Thanks Politsi (talk) 08:25, 2 December 2017 (UTC)
 * Ok, good, they deserve it. I believe their actual sales are at least 100 million.--Harout72 (talk) 13:42, 2 December 2017 (UTC)

BIGBANG
Bigbang already surpassed 140 Million, only in japan they surpassed 38.4 Million reported by oricon chart them self and you already calculated some of their sales and i have that document and to let you know you didn't completed it and you said there is more than 40 million sales , so let's do some math, 40+38= 78 at least they should be on the list, if you need any help i can calculate their numbers of sales in doc file and give it to you to check it , if oricon reported about the numbers then they should be certified and not claimed, so the 78 Million here is certified sales ,and 140 are claimed and here is the sources : 140M Claim 38,4M Japanese sales  — Preceding unsigned comment added by MRAU-vip (talk • contribs) 05:00, 29 November 2017 (UTC)

Can You Reply please ? --EXTENDED 14:13, 3 December 2017 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by MRAU-vip (talk • contribs)


 * The Japanese source numbers are earnings, not sales. Bigbang earned ¥3,840,000,000 in 2016. Sonio194 (talk) 01:52, 4 December 2017 (UTC)

Dear Sonio194 The list about sales ranking, Please Use better translator if You don't know Japanese, i recommend you to use BING for Better translation, and that number are total earning and the 38,4M are total sales , The Translation of The title : 【オリコン年間】乃木坂46初の総売上TOP3 BIGBANG・Hey!Say!は初TOP10 = [Oricon year] Nogizaka's first total sales of 46 top3 BIGBANG-Hey! Say, the first Top10

i hope you understand it now ^^

--#MRAU 03:39, 4 December 2017 (UTC)


 * I know Japanese. Translation of Title: [Oricon Yearly] Nogizaka46's total earnings is in Top 3 for the first time. Big Bang and Hey!Say! first time in TOP10 ranking.
 * 7位　38.4億円／BIGBANG
 * 7th 3.84 billion yen/BIGBANG
 * If the article was talking about the number of sales, it would say 38.4億枚 (3.84 billion copies/units). Translation of Oricon source. Sonio194 (talk) 06:54, 4 December 2017 (UTC)

oh sorry my bad, I've mentioned the wrong article , They sold 32.9 million copies and They earn 2.37 billion yen

23.7億円（32.9万枚）　BIGBANG : 2.37 billion yen (32.9 million copies) BIGBANG

and here is the right Article --#MRAU 23:33, 4 December 2017 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by MRAU-vip (talk • contribs)


 * It says they sold 329,000 copies (32.9万枚). 万 is 10,000. Sonio194 (talk) 23:55, 4 December 2017 (UTC)

Beyonce's Certified Sales
Can I have Beyonce's certified sales link please. Thanks (190.80.50.137 (talk) 00:39, 5 December 2017 (UTC))

2601:243:F80:FA0:59AE:8C0C:ABA6:C7CC (talk) 04:12, 5 December 2017 (UTC)
 * Red question icon with gradient background.svg Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format. Cocohead781 (talk) 04:38, 5 December 2017 (UTC)

I don't want to change anything. I just can't remember if Feeling Myself's certification was updated. I've recently found out that it is now 2xplatinum according to the RIAA. (190.80.50.137 (talk) 13:19, 5 December 2017 (UTC))
 * Here is the file for Beyonce's certs. I'd added the RIAA's 2x Plat. to Nicki Minaj's total only. Now it's added to Beyonce's total too.--Harout72 (talk) 16:51, 5 December 2017 (UTC)

Ok thanks. Final question, does she need 88.5 million certified units to move to 118 million or 94.4 million certified units? Regards (190.80.50.137 (talk) 19:44, 5 December 2017 (UTC))
 * If Beyonce's certification sales are over 95 million. Then she will be able to get the 118m claim.Politsi (talk) 00:16, 6 December 2017 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 5 December 2017
Beyonce has sold 200 million records worldwide X MalikDye (talk) 23:11, 5 December 2017 (UTC) MalikDye (talk) 23:11, 5 December 2017 (UTC)
 * Red information icon with gradient background.svg Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made and please explain what you want changed.  Terra  (talk) 09:15, 6 December 2017 (UTC)

Tino Rossi
Tino Rossi: ″He remains the only French singer to have sold more than 700 million records. His disc "Petit Papa Noël" alone sold 80 million copies worldwide." on his page but not Tino Rossi on List of best-selling music artists. Why? because not certified? GabrieL (talk) 10:42, 6 December 2017 (UTC)

Certification Credits for Remixes
Did Justin Bieber receive any certification updates from Despacito? If so is Beyonce eligable for such? I've just seen that Mi Gente is now certified 2x platinum. I know prior to the remix it had only sold 268,000 copies in the US. I know that both versions are counted together in order for the new certification, so does that mean Beyonce gets sales update? I hope you understand me lol. Clarification would be great.

Thanks in Advance (190.80.50.137 (talk) 14:26, 7 December 2017 (UTC))

New Kids on the Block
Harout, NKOTB once inside the list with 80m claim. Considering they are doing some reunion tour recently, is that any re-certification of their sales which can make them back to the list. At least with 75m-records?. Need your help for their certification sales total, and I have the reliable source for their 75m claim. Thanks. Politsi (talk) 11:42, 8 December 2017 (UTC)
 * NKOB need their claims supported by 51.9% certified sales as they've begun charting in 1986. So for a claim as high as 75 million, they'd need 38.9 million certified units, but so far their certified sales stand at 30.5 million.--Harout72 (talk) 14:05, 8 December 2017 (UTC)

Coldplay - Certified Sales
Hello Harout, can you give me Coldplay's certified sales document? Esambuu (talk) 00:18, 7 December 2017 (UTC)
 * Here you are.--Harout72 (talk) 14:12, 7 December 2017 (UTC)

-- Thank you, Here's my update: 1. Something Just Like This - 5x Platinum (Source: https://musiccanada.com/gold-platinum/?fwp_gp_search=something%20just%20like%20this) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Esambuu (talk • contribs) 05:10, 9 December 2017 (UTC)

Eric Clapton's 130m-records
Harout, so far there is no broadsheet newspaper or other music news organization talking about his sales. Please see this source (http://www.realclearlife.com/real-estate/eric-clapton-former-california-home-paloma-avenue/#1) it was published on 8 June 2017 by realclearlife.com, a news website which is part of RealClearPolitics, a Chicago-based Political journalism news website. Inside they are talking about Clapton's 130m-records. I believe Clapton's certification sales is good and able to get 130m-claim. Harout, I think we should include him to the list with 130m-claim by using that source, RealClearPolitics is still a news organization without any gossip or hoax news and something we can work with. But I will still searching the better source for him. Clapton is the only musician who's still out of the list, while he is deserve to be on the list. I need your help and consideration. Thanks Politsi (talk) 13:17, 13 December 2017 (UTC)
 * Politsi, the 130 million is too inflated for Clapton, his certified sales are only 68.5 million. We shouldn't use any sales claim for him that's higher 100-110 million.--Harout72 (talk) 14:37, 13 December 2017 (UTC)
 * Clapton is a very early beginner, his career even started since 1960. And based from the raw calculation sales. I believe his 68,5 million certification able to cover the 130m-claim. In my opinion, I think we should add him with that claim for temporary until we get the lower and closer claim sales to his certified sales. In this moment there is no other claim sales of Clapton, only this. We treat the same thing to other artist I think, when there is no closer claim sales to their available certified sales. We use the right and match calculation between their claim, year career and certification... Thanks Politsi (talk) 17:58, 13 December 2017 (UTC)
 * He started charting 1965. In this case even the source isn't all that reliable. We should wait for a better source and definitely a lower sales figure. If Clapton's certified sales go up by 10 million at least in the near future, I'll keep that source in mind, but for the time being it isn't right to bring him up on the list with that claim. Even Bee Gees that have 68 million certified units are listed with 120 million claim, and we all can agree that that figure for them is inflated.--Harout72 (talk) 20:49, 13 December 2017 (UTC)
 * Okay then, let see in the next few years, hopefully he is still alive and actively releasing records. Thanks Politsi (talk) 21:10, 13 December 2017 (UTC)

Backstreet Boys - 130 Million
Backstreet Boys (BSB) should have at least 130 million. According to another Wikipedia page (Backstreet Boys1): "The Backstreet Boys have sold over 130 million records worldwide,[7] making them the best-selling boy band in history,[8][9][10] and one of the world's best-selling music artists." This is supported by numerous other sites such as IMDb who said that BSB "have sold over 130 million albums world wide making them the best selling boy band in history"2.

1https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Backstreet_Boys 2http://www.imdb.com/name/nm1477802/bio

MARIAH CAREY ALL I WANT FOR CHRISTMAS
Please add the German certification level of 500,000 copies to the list. I did a comparison of the list prior to the certification date on December 13th.. .and NO it hasn't been added to the list here at all. Kindly update up fidelovkurt 07:56, 16 December 2017 (UTC)
 * Look again, before the update, and the current.--Harout72 (talk) 13:52, 16 December 2017 (UTC)

Lionel Richie out from the 100m club
Harout, after I remove Bryan Adams from 100m club and Barry Manilow from 80m club to a lower place. I will do the same thing to Lionel Richie, I will remove his name from 100m club and put him with 90m claim because his certified sales only 40m. I will implemented it immediately. Thanks Politsi (talk) 19:03, 17 December 2017 (UTC)
 * That's a good idea, his certified sales don't suggest he could have sold 100 million records.--Harout72 (talk) 20:01, 17 December 2017 (UTC)

Credit for songs featured on
Will Beyonce be credited for Mi Gente's certifications; the ones that she has largely affected of course. I see that the song is now double platinum so will that result in certifications for her? Also should the Perfect duet have additional certifications would she be credited for them as well? (190.80.50.137 (talk) 17:53, 14 December 2017 (UTC))
 * If the certifications for "Mi Gente" are issued specifically for the Remix version like in Australia and Spain, then yes they can be included, the US certification cannot however as it's not specifically for the Remix version. The certification for "Perfect duet" can also be included, already is for NZ.--Harout72 (talk) 19:28, 14 December 2017 (UTC)
 * Ok thanks, therefore considering that perfect is now 2x platinum in the US is she going to get certifications or does it have to specify as the duet version as well. If that's the case shouldn't certifications for feeling myself and Telephone be removed since RIAA certified them in the solo category? I'm confused again lol. Thanks in advance for clarifications (190.80.50.137 (talk) 22:29, 18 December 2017 (UTC))
 * Why are you confused? Has "Feeling Myself" been released without having featured Beyonce? No it hasn't. Has "Telephone" been released without having featured Beyonce? No it hasn't. But "Perfect" has, so has "Mi Gente".--Harout72 (talk) 22:52, 18 December 2017 (UTC)

Katy Perry and Justin Bieber - 120 Million+
I'm confused on why these two artists have not been moved to the 120 million+ listing given their certified sales numbers. Are there no sources to support claimed sales in this range? It seems unusual to see artists with such high certified sales listed with lower claimed sales. TJ 19:58, 17 December 2017 (UTC)
 * For Perry see this discussion, for Bieber see this.--Harout72 (talk) 20:14, 17 December 2017 (UTC)
 * I already found the reliable source for their new claim, We could raise their sales claim when certified sales both Perry and Bieber has reach at least 140 million. Politsi (talk) 11:30, 19 December 2017 (UTC)

Lady Gaga to 120m list
Harout. I have a reliable source to support Lady Gaga with 124m-sales. Her certification nearly 100m. I will move her position up immediately. Is that okay?. Thanks Politsi (talk) 05:28, 29 November 2017 (UTC)
 * Let's hold off on that. Let her get very close to the currently listed claimed figure with her certified sales, then we'll consider upgrading her sales. There is still over 14 million units of gap between those two figures.--Harout72 (talk) 14:15, 29 November 2017 (UTC)
 * This the source for her 124m-claim (http://www.adelaidenow.com.au/lady-gaga-and-robbie-williams-leave-adelaide-off-australian-tour-itineraries/news-story/0deff4e81726a8fc58c706331a08c4ec) let's keep it in archive until the day she'll get it.Politsi (talk) 08:45, 2 December 2017 (UTC)

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Michael Jackson's 1 Billion total sales (as of 2015 according to RIAA and Billboard)
Ok, it's still on 184 million certified units, not yet enough to support the billion figure (20% rules) but good enough to meet the 750 million units sold (CLAIMED SALES) as of 2006 according to the World Music Award and main sources such as MTV.com I really do not need to include sources as the 750 million figures is reported by a thousand of serious websites. Let's discuss on how the top list could be rearranged concerning "Claimed Sales"

Readerweb (talk) 19:27, 26 December 2017 (UTC)

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Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 30 December 2017
Hi there, I was looking through your list of best selling artists and when I came across Katy Perry's I noticed that the figure listed is not up to date. In February of 2017, Universal Music Group held their annual pre-GRAMMY showcase. At the event, they awarded Katy a plaque that certifies her with +40M album sales and +125M track sales, which equates to 165M total record sales. If you could update this figure it would be greatly appreciated. I will provide the source too. Thanks.

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/katy-perry-honored-global-sales-042100008.html Itsevren (talk) 20:35, 30 December 2017 (UTC)
 * Please read the Definitions on the main page, also refer to this discussion.--Harout72 (talk) 20:59, 30 December 2017 (UTC)

File nominated for deletion on commons
file:c:File:Eminem 2017 - EMAs 2017.jpg Reason:No permission indicated subpage: Message automatically deposited by a robot on 08:59, 2 January 2018 (UTC). — Preceding unsigned comment added by Harideepan (talk • contribs)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 4 January 2018
Please could an authorised editor add an image of ABBA to the section '200 million to 249 million sales', in keeping with the rest of this section and article? Gregory 01:30, 4 January 2018 (UTC)
 * Red information icon with gradient background.svg Not done: Proposals asking for the addition of pictures to an article are lacking in context when the whereabouts of the requested picture (i.e., a URL) are missing from the request.  Spintendo  ᔦᔭ   03:53, 4 January 2018 (UTC)

Pink
Harout. I need your help, once I bring a quite reliable source for Pink's 90m claim sales, it was about two years ago. And that source still in archieve. Need your help, How many of her current certification sales? Is it enough to support 90m claim? here the source (http://www.klkntv.com/story/21674082/pink-to) from KLKN. Thanks. Politsi (talk) 04:09, 6 January 2018 (UTC)
 * Yeap, looks like she has enough certified sales already to be on the list. She's begun charting in 2000, therefore, needs the 90 million claim supported by 70% certified sales, which is 63 million required. Her available certified sales are now 64.9 million. So, I'll put her up on the list later today.--Harout72 (talk) 13:32, 6 January 2018 (UTC)
 * Wow. Thank you... Welcome Pink!. Next we wait for Christina Aguilera, Green Day, and Tim McGraw to join the club. Politsi (talk) 13:48, 6 January 2018 (UTC)

Andrea Bocelli
Harout. Need your help, How many of his current certification sales? As I remember He has quite a lot certification and not so far from the limit for 75m claim. Is it possible for him to get back to the list with 75m claim?. Thanks. Politsi (talk) 21:30, 7 January 2018 (UTC)
 * Actually, he isn't close with his certified sales. The 75 million figure would have to be supported by 66.4% certified sales (49.8 million units), but he has only 38.7 million certified units.--Harout72 (talk) 21:34, 7 January 2018 (UTC)

Bing Crosby's 300m claim
Harout, I hope you can help me. Actually How many of his certification sales total? I mean he has the best selling singles of all time. Is it enough to support the 300m claim?. There a lot of recent articles said he has sold 300m records. I'm using a mobile phone now, I will bring the source here once I get to my laptop. Thanks Politsi (talk) 21:29, 7 January 2018 (UTC)
 * He has very low certified sales, some 7 million in US and some 800,000 units in the UK. He has no chance for this list.--Harout72 (talk) 21:37, 7 January 2018 (UTC)

Christina Aguilera and Justin Timberlake
Do either of them have enough certified units to qualify for this list? While I so far haven't been able to find a good solid reference for worldwide records sold, it would be rather surprising if the answer is no given how much prior success they've had. Snuggums (talk / edits) 22:44, 8 January 2018 (UTC)
 * Christina Aguilera is very close to get on this list with 75 million claim. She needs her claimed figured supported by 69.4% certified sales as she's begun charting in 1999. So for a 75 million claim, she'd need 52 million certified units. Her available certified sales are already at 51.7 million.
 * As for Timberlake, I haven't gone over his available certified sales, but for a 75 million claim, he'd need 53.4 million certified units (71.3%). If there is a such a claim, let me know, I'll take a look at his certified sales.--Harout72 (talk) 23:00, 8 January 2018 (UTC)

Alan Jackson
Harout, this country singer has an early music career. I think we should let him to enter the list with 80 million claim. I once asking this issue two years ago but you reject my idea since there's a 60m claim for him. But I think if his certification sales closed to cover 80m claim. We should bring him to the list. Need your help. Thanks Politsi (talk) 08:03, 9 January 2018 (UTC)
 * Politsi, Alan Jackson isn't an early beginner, he's begun charting in 1990. He's been issued only one Platinum in Australia (for 70,000 units) since our last discussion in March 2015. So there is no difference in his certified sales. Still the 60 million is a more logical figure I'm afraid.--Harout72 (talk) 14:24, 9 January 2018 (UTC)

The Carpenter to 90m claim
I remove them from the 100m-club because they have a quite short music career, Is that okay Harout?. Thanks Politsi (talk) 11:16, 10 January 2018 (UTC)
 * Yup, based on their certified sales, it doesn't look like they could have even sold 90 million, but it's better than 100 million.--Harout72 (talk) 12:53, 10 January 2018 (UTC)

Shakira
Harout. Two years ago her certification sales still not enough to enter the list for 75m claim. Sorry for bothering you, is there any re-certification of her certified sales?. Thanks Politsi (talk) 10:57, 12 January 2018 (UTC)
 * No, I'm afraid she's still at 45.5 million with her certified sales, she should have 50.2 million (67%) as she's begun charting in 1995.--Harout72 (talk) 13:18, 12 January 2018 (UTC)

ABBA out from the 200m club
Harout, I bring ABBA to the talk page again because I just see this source (http://www.publicnow.com/view/E0827DD9750CA3046007E8CA672F045DAFFD0903?2017-04-03-23:00:57+01:00-xxx1803) from Publicnow which is the largest web disclosure platform collecting, organizing and distributing press releases, company announcements, government statements and corporate news issued by the leading organizations of the world. Inside there is a press release which is said about ABBA's 140 million records. For me personally, I hate the fact that they only have 61 million in certification but they able to join the 200m-club and it's confusing me since we can not allow Eric Clapton to join the list with his 130m records claim but in fact, his certified sales are better than ABBA and begin his music career earlier than ABBA. I think it's time to remove ABBA from the 200m club and put them with 140m claim. What do you think?. Thanks Politsi (talk) 10:25, 12 January 2018 (UTC)
 * I agree with you that they don't deserve to be in the 200 million section, but that's not a source we want to remove them from there with. We'd need something much more reliable.--Harout72 (talk) 13:26, 12 January 2018 (UTC)

Elvis Presley's 500m claim
Harout, I think we should remove his 600m claim after I considered his certification sales is not so extremely high. And quite far from The Beatles. Let's remove his 600m claim and leave him with only 500m claim, something that we can do also to Michael Jackson when we erase his inflated 400m claim. We can use this new reliable source, need your advise which one is more reliable (http://www.newsweek.com/remembering-elvis-40-years-after-his-death-650506) from Newsweek, or Times of Malta (https://www.timesofmalta.com/articles/view/20120110/life-features/Pilgrimage-to-the-King-of-Rock.401767). What do you think?. Thanks Politsi (talk) 03:10, 15 January 2018 (UTC)
 * Well, it's only natural that Presley's certified sales are much lower than The Beatles'. Presley began charting in 1954, even the US didn't have a certification system back then. The RIAA has launched it's certification system in 1958. The Newsweek.com source says Elvis had already sold 500 million records when he died. And Timesofmalta source has two different figures for him, 1 billion and 500 million.--Harout72 (talk) 03:49, 15 January 2018 (UTC)
 * Sorry, I didn't see the 1 billion claim. Okay then we keep his 600m claim.Politsi (talk) 04:32, 15 January 2018 (UTC)

More Variable and Reliable Source
To all editor, I think we should use more variable source in the list. And not only stick to source from Telegraph or CBS News. Please Try to find a source from another broadsheet newspaper around the world and for those who think that The Daily Telegraph is reliable. Then you should read this source (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/celebritynews/9450131/Singer-Adele-babysits-for-a-strangers-child-at-high-street-cafe.html) Adele's 21 album sold 220 million?, This is a proof that telegraph is an error source and we use telegraph in the list ONLY for temporary. I hope you guys understand that. thanks Politsi (talk) 14:48, 5 January 2018 (UTC)


 * Using well known respected sources is to give readers (and other editors who are not usually involved with the page) confidence that what is on the list is accurate. I would prefer we keep using well known reliable sources until declared unreliable by the reliable sources noticeboard and not use local newspapers who in paper form only get sold in small areas. Yes more mainstream sources can get it wrong, in which case, an alternative source is found and discussed on this page if necessary. I'll refrain from changing any more refs until we get consensus on this. Mattg82 (talk) 19:32, 5 January 2018 (UTC)
 * A well known respected source like The Telegraph that you add in the list for Stewart and Elton John can make some error too, I already proof it. It means that we can not only rely on some well news organization without using our brain and logical. Any kind of broadsheet newspaper from a small city or areas is reliable but still we should read it first and use our brain to decided if the contain inside can be use as a reference. But still we should avoid a gossip tabloid like The Sun, Daily Mirror, and Daily Mail. There are several artists who's still out of the list and waiting a reliable source to support their sales claim. I will bring them to the list once a broadsheet newspaper or a news organization (other than The Telegraph or CBS news) write their claim. Politsi (talk) 20:24, 5 January 2018 (UTC)
 * Comment: "Broadsheet" refers to the physical size of a newspaper - a broadsheet is generally 29 1⁄2 by 231⁄2 inches, and a tabloid is 17 by 11 inches.  You're equating "tabloid" with "tabloid journalism," and assuming that broadsheets are reliable because they're not tabloids. There are cities where this would be an accurate assessment -- the New York Times vs The New York Post, for example, but in general, the physical format of a newspaper is not an appropriate measure of its reliability. JSFarman (talk) 01:34, 16 January 2018 (UTC)


 * All sources whether highly prestigious or not can get the sales figures wrong. Therefore, it's more important to focus on the sales figures within the articles rather than focus on the reliability. If the same figure is published by both well know reliable source(s) and also by less known source(s), of course we should work with the former.--Harout72 (talk) 13:48, 6 January 2018 (UTC)

Neil Diamond
Neil Diamond was downgraded from a credible claim of 130 million to 100 million based on a reference from an article about a Neil Diamond impersonator that ran in a local paper in a tertiary market. He is about to receive the Lifetime Achievement Award from the Grammys; this claim of 130 million is from NARAS, who may have a better grasp on record sales than a general assignment reporter Michael Martin at the La Crosse Tribune. (Here are a few of the many other sources: The Guardian, NPR from 2010, and People. JSFarman (talk) 00:40, 16 January 2018 (UTC)
 * @JSFarman, I hope you understand this list has been build by a lot of editors to protect the reliability of artists sales claim and to prevent any lying inflated sales claim for promotion purpose by record company. Diamond's certified sales are only 69 million, we can put him with 130m claim if there is no other lower claim for him. There is a 100m-claim for Diamond from a Broadsheet paper, and that's how this list work. We use the closest sales claim to artists certified sales. Harout... I need your help. Thanks Politsi (talk) 01:44, 16 January 2018 (UTC)
 * Politsi, I'm addressing only the edit to Neil Diamond; I have no doubt that many editors have worked diligently on this page.JSFarman (talk) 02:53, 16 January 2018 (UTC)
 * JSFarman, read up the Definitions on the main page. The list uses those claimed figures that are closest to artists' certified sales.--Harout72 (talk) 03:44, 16 January 2018 (UTC)
 * I did read it. My issue is with the source. ("To ensure the highest level of fact checking and editorial control, this list sources sales figures to news organizations and highly regarded music industry related organizations such as MTV, VH1, Billboard and Rolling Stone.")  But I'm not going to argue it -- there are no official worldwide sales charts --so if the La Crosse Tribune says Neil Diamond sold 100 million records, 100 million it is. JSFarman (talk) 05:04, 16 January 2018 (UTC)
 * @JSFarman, La Crosse Tribune isn't that bad, it is a very old Broadsheet, established on the year 1904 and a part of Lee Enterprises, a very prestigious publicly traded American media company. I'm handling all the source in this list and realize this issue about the quality of the source, that's why in the past two weeks I start to change the source from a Local Broadsheet into a very famous news organization. Although for me it looks beautiful and interesting to have a lot of kind Broadsheet newspaper source around the world. And we are not build this list for a fan base but reliability. Politsi (talk) 05:52, 16 January 2018 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 21 January 2018
Britney Spears sold 140m records worldwide according to Billboard Music Awards 2016. She sold additional 3 million records with Glory release and this is all excluding videography that in US alone sold 13m aka 13x platinum. Baby One More Time album is certified 14x platinum and Oops I did it again 10x platinum. You used nielsen for Britney while it doesn't use BMG ArminWooz (talk) 09:49, 21 January 2018 (UTC)
 * Read the Definitions on the main page to understand how the list is operated.--Harout72 (talk) 13:29, 21 January 2018 (UTC)

Claimed sales for Elvis Presley
For some time, the article has cited sources that claim Presley has sold a total of 500 or 600 million total units worldwide. Those sources are: Daily Herald of Arlington Heights, The News International of Pakistan, and International Business Times. Hmm. Well, yes, I guess, they do meet WP:V.

I just added four entirely up-to-date sources that state Presley has sold no less than 1 billion units. Those sources are: Rolling Stone, CNN, Agence France-Presse (that's one of the top three press services in the entire world, if you don't happen to be familiar with it), and Guinness World Records. And yet, for some strange reason, Harout72 has a problem. I'm eager to hear exactly what that is. — DCGeist (talk) 06:06, 22 January 2018 (UTC)


 * @DCGeist, not only Harout has a problem with it but also me, don't you know the meaning of INFLATED sales figure by a record company for promotional purpose? not only Elvis has a very unlogical sales figure but Michael Jackson's 750m claim and that's how this reliable list work. Harout72, me and some editor realize there are a lot of artists who's trying to promote themselves as a best-selling artists but actually NOT, the official certification sales total is the fact. And also, this list NOT a fan base, please do not using this list as your favorite artists playground. This list for reliability. Harout72, we need your help. Thanks Politsi (talk) 07:25, 22 January 2018 (UTC)


 * This list has a field for "claimed sales". Yes or no, Politsi?
 * I have provided high-quality sources—that do not cite the record company—for that field for a particular artist. Yes or no, Politsi?
 * What the heck is your argument? You have, so far, none. — DCGeist (talk) 07:38, 22 January 2018 (UTC)

@DCGeist, It will be difficult to argue with some dying hard fans of artists, they are usually always try to make their Idol look the best and even forget the fact. Are you one of those Elvis's dying hard fans?. Yes or no?. Politsi (talk) 07:48, 22 January 2018 (UTC)


 * No, I'm not. My big loves are the Mekons, the Pogues, and Kate Bush. But I recognize Presley's historical significance, and per the rules of this list, I added proper citations.


 * I answered your question. You still haven't answered mine. Does this list have a field for "claimed sales"—yes or no? I provided high-quality sources, that do not cite the record company, for that field for a particular artist—yes or no? — DCGeist (talk) 07:58, 22 January 2018 (UTC)

@DCGeist Read the Definitions on the main page where it says This list uses claimed figures that are closest to artists' available certified units: inflated claimed figures that meet the required certified units amount but are unrealistically high, are not used.. Yes this list for a claimed sales but do you realize that Elvis only has 213 million in certification sales? How come Elvis sold a billion records while his certification only 22% of 1 billion?. Are you understand? can you calculate logical in math way? yes or no?. Thanks Politsi (talk) 08:07, 22 January 2018 (UTC)
 * @Harout72, It looks like this person really serious and possessed with 1 billion claim of Elvis's claim. We need to take some serious action. Thanks Politsi (talk) 08:11, 22 January 2018 (UTC)


 * Be respectful, Politsi. If you will only be honorable enough to answer the questions I have long posed, I will be more than happy to answer your latest ones. — DCGeist (talk) 08:15, 22 January 2018 (UTC)

@Harout72, we need your help. This is serious. Thanks Politsi (talk) 08:31, 22 January 2018 (UTC)


 * @DCGeist You are edit-warring, step back and go over the Definitions on the main page. It clearly states This list uses claimed figures that are closest to artists' available certified units: inflated claimed figures that meet the required certified units amount but are unrealistically high, are not used. Even the highly regarded news agencies publish inflated sales figures. This is nothing new.--Harout72 (talk) 08:34, 22 January 2018 (UTC)


 * But as you well know, Harout72, 1 billion is not "unrealistically high" at all. Does it make you sad? Apparently. But that's not a proper basis for reverting an entirely well-sourced edit.DocKino (talk) 08:38, 22 January 2018 (UTC)

@DockIno, we are here not to make some personal issue, we are here to HELP wikipedia show the BEST FACT. It's not about sad or not, it's about reliability. We don't have to make some requirement or certification sales if we only need a statement from some news organization. Politsi (talk) 08:44, 22 January 2018 (UTC)


 * @DocKino, It is unrealistically high when there is over 750 million units of gap sitting between Presley's certified sales and those 1 billion claimed sales. Let me inform you that there is many years of consensus for the way this list is operated. Read up the Definitions.--Harout72 (talk) 08:47, 22 January 2018 (UTC)

@DocKino, we should stop this edit warring. Harout72, I think we should call some administrator patrol to handle this situation, we must kept the list reliable. Politsi (talk) 08:51, 22 January 2018 (UTC)

@DocKino and DCGeist, We need some consensus in this situation, we can not straight to change something before the consensus being held. I revert it to the first situation. Need your cooperation. Thank you. Politsi (talk) 09:01, 22 January 2018 (UTC)
 * Politsi, we have a long established consensus here at this list that inflated sales figures should not be used. This is why we have the Definitions and the Edit notice both of which clearly inform how this list is operated.--Harout72 (talk) 09:08, 22 January 2018 (UTC)
 * Sorry, my mistake. The consensus already exist, so we all editor should try our best to make this list running as the established consensus. Thanks Politsi (talk) 09:19, 22 January 2018 (UTC)
 * Yes, your mistake. Neither you, Politsi, nor Harout72 has made any case at all for why the figure provided by Rolling Stone and CNN and Agence France-Presse and Guinness World Records is "inflated". While to the contrary, I have provided a link to this carefully considered (though non-WP:V) article—"For the Billionth and the Last Time: Lifting the Lid on the King's Record Sales"—to respectfully demonstrate that, far from "inflated", the 1 billion figure at this point in time is most probably understated. Those are the facts at our disposal. Please tell us, Politsi and Harout72, why you find it so difficult to accept them. — DCGeist (talk) 09:56, 22 January 2018 (UTC)
 * The available certified sales for Presley clearly suggest that 1 billion in sales claimed by those sources are grossly inflated. Therefore, we should stick to lower claimed figures such as 600 million in sales as well as 500 million in sales, which are also published by reliable sources but are reasonably are closer to Presley's certified sales.--Harout72 (talk) 10:13, 22 January 2018 (UTC)
 * Did you read "For the Billionth and the Last Time: Lifting the Lid on the King's Record Sales" or not? — DCGeist (talk) 10:18, 22 January 2018 (UTC)
 * Stop trying to win your argument based on articles published by fan clubs. Certified sales are what matter. Had Presley really sold 1 billion records, his certified sales would've been well above 500 million units, such isn't the case as his certified sales are only 212 million.--Harout72 (talk) 10:25, 22 January 2018 (UTC)
 * Not "trying to win [the] argument", as you so desperately are, Harout72. Just trying to have a well-informed discussion. If you weren't so scared of learning something and dared to read the article I linked to, you would immediately see that it's not your average "fan club" puff piece at all. So, I ask you once again, have you read "For the Billionth and the Last Time: Lifting the Lid on the King's Record Sales" or not? — DCGeist (talk) 10:48, 22 January 2018 (UTC)
 * What's your claim based on, Harout? You, the edit-warrior who thinks the Daily Herald of Arlington Heights is a better source than Rolling Stone or CNN. You are a joke. No one takes you seriously anymore.DocKino (talk) 10:35, 22 January 2018 (UTC)

@DocKino and DCGeist. Is not a guarantee that CNN is a reliable source for sales claim. Let me show all of you that CNN is also make some confusing and unreliable calculation sales claimed for a very famous artists. in June 26, 2009 in the same day, CNN publishing a very far different sales claimed for Michael Jackson. One CNN reporter said Jackson sold 350 million (http://edition.cnn.com/2009/SHOWBIZ/Music/06/25/michael.jackson.world/index.html), while another CNN reporter said Jackson sold 750 million (http://edition.cnn.com/2009/SHOWBIZ/Music/06/26/michael.jackson.album.sales/). CNN in the same day published that confusing sales claimed. How is that?. This is the evidence that a big news corp like CNN is not a guarantee. We need calculation from their certification sales. Politsi (talk) 10:52, 22 January 2018 (UTC)
 * DocKino you might want to remain civil with your comments. Having an argument about claimed figures is one thing, but crossing the line with stupidity is another. Daily Herald of Arlington Heights is a reliable source also. As Politsi pointed out CNN and many other reliable sources have published two different figures (350 million and 750 million) for an artist like Michael Jackson on the same day. That's no reliability on CNN's part when it comes to sales figures. The reliability of a source depends on context. Each source must be carefully weighed to judge whether it is reliable for the statement being made in the Wikipedia article and is an appropriate source for that content. That's why we look at artists' certified sales to avoid inflated sales figures.--Harout72 (talk) 11:01, 22 January 2018 (UTC)
 * Hilarious. You want us to believe you've "carefully weighed" the Daily Herald of Arlington Heights? What a stinking joke. Clearly, the claimed sources field makes you fucking miserable. So let's discuss cutting it out altogether. But for now, as long as it's there, you're just spewing shit, Harout72, and everyone smells it.DocKino (talk) 11:29, 22 January 2018 (UTC)
 * Come on, Harout72, don't be shy. Share with us some of the many other citations of the Daily Herald of Arlington Heights you've culled to convince us that it "is an appropriate source for that content". I can't wait! Harout72!! The Daily Herald of Arlington Heights!!! This is going to be delicious!!!!DocKino (talk) 11:56, 22 January 2018 (UTC)
 * Neutral comment You realize that the source is actually the Associated Press, right? There's a big AP logo right on the byline, stating that it's an AP story (also the Daily Herald is the third-largest paper in the Chicago area, so it's hardly some random community newspaper). Next time you rage against a source, maybe take a closer look at it, please. I've clarified the link.  Nate  • ( chatter ) 14:34, 22 January 2018 (UTC)
 * In fact, the original Terre Haute Tribune-Star link to the story was still alive, so the source now uses that as the link. If you can find the original source, use it when possible.  Nate  • ( chatter ) 14:46, 22 January 2018 (UTC)
 * Thank you for fixing this.--Harout72 (talk) 14:55, 22 January 2018 (UTC)

Of course, Politsi. But we're not not discussing the certified sales field. We're discussing the claimed sales field. Entirely different. And here CNN is backed up by Agence France-Presse. And by Guinness World Records. And by Rolling Stone. Have I argued that Elvis should be placed above the Beatles in the list? No. I have not. I do believe certified numbers matter most. But there is no question that multiple major news organizations recognize Presley as having sold 1 billion units. That is sufficient in of itself. In addition, for those editors wedded to the "truth", I have provided a link to, yes, an amateur but carefully researched study that should satisfy any objective observer that Presley has by this point certainly sold over 1 billion units. Those are the simple facts. As I suggested before, Politsi, I wish the Mekons were the best-selling band on earth. But we can't always get what we want. — DCGeist (talk) 11:10, 22 January 2018 (UTC)
 * User:DCGeist, both columns the certified sales and the claimed sales are what the entire list is operated on. There is a reason why we have the column for certified sales. And there is a reason why we have detailed Definitions in the beginning of the list. Certified sales are always taken into account before claimed figures are implemented.--Harout72 (talk) 12:34, 22 January 2018 (UTC)

We could use some help getting this sorted at Elvis Presley honestly. There have been periodic discussions on the article Talk page about Elvis' sales figures but there is never much satisfaction with the sources available. edited the article in good faith but I reverted him (sorry) because he's using a tabloid as the source and removing several existing ones from the Elvis article. But, we need a real fix that gets the proper numbers in there with a high-quality published source. -- Laser brain  (talk)  18:38, 22 January 2018 (UTC)
 * You can use the source that this list is using for the 600 million. 88marcus is right for correcting Presley's sales there. The 1 billion should not be used anywhere on wikipedia as it's outrageously inflated.--Harout72 (talk) 18:42, 22 January 2018 (UTC)
 * I agree, I just wanted to get a good quality source in there. -- Laser brain  (talk)  18:44, 22 January 2018 (UTC)

@DCGeist and all Elvis Presley's fans. Please read this very carefully and bear in your mind Potentially unreliable sources, Fansites are generally not considered reliable and The opinions of a fan site owner or owners are generally not reliable. So don't ever bring any kind of official fans site as your argument in here!. DCGeist, now after I bring you the truth that CNN is also can make some error, and now you say of course? whatever back up on the CNN statement, whether is from by Agence France-Presse or by Guinness World Records or Rolling Stone or CNN reporter. What's different? They are same! from CNN!. And now you are trying lecturing me that we can't always get what we want? what are you thinking!. You are the one and DocKino, another Elvis's fans who's trying to bring that grossly inflated 1 billion claim to this list!. And worst from that, you bring a fans site here!. Harout, me and the main editor are doing our best to bring a fact in here. And we will do it, I WILL revert that inflated 1 billion claim from this list immediately. Politsi (talk) 01:35, 23 January 2018 (UTC)
 * They both are gone however source is fixed by other editor. Excelse (talk) 10:21, 23 January 2018 (UTC)

Mary J. Blige
Harout, is there any possibilities for Blige to enter the list with 75m claim? (https://www.billboard.com/articles/business/6897380/mary-j-blige-icm-partners). What do you think?. Thanks Politsi (talk) 02:25, 26 January 2018 (UTC)
 * Actually no, because she needs her sales figures supported by 65% certified sales as her first album has charted in 1992, that's 48.9 million certified units needed for 75 million claim, her certified sales are only 28.030 million.--Harout72 (talk) 14:36, 26 January 2018 (UTC)

Phill Collins
I Think Phil Collins's 150m claim is also too much, I mean his first charting as solo happens in 1980s also like U2. We put Rod Stewart with 100m claim, although his first charting in 1969 and Stewart has 78 million in certification. While Collins's first charting above 1980 and his certification only around 88 million, so I remove him from 150m club and put him to only 100m claim sales (https://www.dallasnews.com/news/texas/2014/10/28/phil-collins-remembers-the-alamo-with-donation-of-artifacts). What do you think?. Thanks Politsi (talk) 09:14, 27 January 2018 (UTC)
 * 100 million for Collins is low, he's definitely sold more than that based on his 87.8 million certified sales. It's definitely between 120 and 150 million. If you later find a source that says 125 or 130 million, then that should be fine, but the 100 million is low, besides that Kansas source says More Than 100 million.--Harout72 (talk) 10:35, 27 January 2018 (UTC)
 * Okay, thanks for your explanation. Politsi (talk) 11:09, 27 January 2018 (UTC)

U2
Harout, today I remove them from the 150m club and lowering them to only 140m claim, because I thought they are not charting below 1980s, they are not an old man player and their current certification sales is not that high. The source I use for them is released in 2010, but U2's albums after that year only has a minor impact. What do you think?. Thanks Politsi (talk) 08:38, 27 January 2018 (UTC)
 * Please let's discuss these changes on the talk before you make them. They actually have collected many Gold and Platinum and Silver awards from the UK after 2010, roughly 2.8 million. Another 645,000 from Italy after 2010. Another 210,000 units from Australia, Another 100,000 from France, some 40,000 from Spain. Another 40,000 units from Poland. 60,000 from Denmark. All in all, it shows that they have sold millions of records after 2010.--Harout72 (talk) 10:52, 27 January 2018 (UTC
 * Sorry for bothering you. Because I'm so confident with this then I decided to change it, and thanks for remind me. Next time I will take a time to wait some respond before I make some change. Well then, we let U2 keep their 150m claim based on how they able to sold their records since 2010. Politsi (talk) 11:07, 27 January 2018 (UTC)
 * If the source you used was brand new, then yes, it would make sense. We'd still have over 32 million between their available certified sales and 140 million claim.--Harout72 (talk) 13:25, 27 January 2018 (UTC)
 * In a 2015 report/video about the band, CBS News cited 170 million records sold. Plenty of other recent sources have cited the same sales figure, such as Irish Central in 2016, the Irish Independent in 2015, Esquire in 2017, among others... Y2Kcrazyjoker4 (talk &bull; contributions) 01:18, 28 January 2018 (UTC)