Talk:List of best-selling music artists/Archive 39

Miley Cyrus
Harout. Need your help to look over of all Cyrus's certified sales, just in case we can welcoming her to the list with 77m claim. Here the source from The New Daily / https://thenewdaily.com.au/entertainment/celebrity/2019/08/11/iam-hemsworth-and-miley-cyrus-announce-split/ Thanks Politsi (talk) 11:41, 12 August 2019 (UTC)
 * She'd need her 77 million claim covered by 57.4 million certified units as she's begun charting in 2007. I'm seeing only some 35 million certified units from the RIAA, I doubt she'll have the rest of the needed 22 million from the rest of the certifying bodies. But I'll start putting together a file for her just to see where she's exactly at.--Harout72 (talk) 13:23, 12 August 2019 (UTC)
 * Thanks. She is also popular worldwide, we should look carefully to other countries's certified sales. Need your help to informed whether she can be in the list or not. Politsi (talk) 13:45, 12 August 2019 (UTC)

Harout. Cyrus's started charting not since 2007 but since 2006 when she is under the name Hannah Montana. As Hannah Montanah she has charting since 2006 and already sold more than 10m albums in U.S only until she begin to sing with her real name, Miley Cyrus. We must also calculated her certified sales under the name of Hannah Montana and other songs that Cyrus as featured artists. Thanks Politsi (talk) 14:46, 12 August 2019 (UTC)
 * If Miley Cyrus was the actual performer on the Hannah Montana, why is cyrus listed here as the performer for the track 13? I'm confused, it seems like she wasn't the actual vocalist on the soundtrack.--Harout72 (talk) 00:24, 13 August 2019 (UTC)
 * I re-check information of Hannah Montanah's discography and find out that it's true, the first soundtrack that released in 2006 is not considered as Cyrus's albums. But Cyrus's is credited as the lead singer and the album's "owner" in the next three soundtrack that released in 2007-2010, which means that the three soundtrack (Hannah Montana 2/3/Forever) is Cyrus's albums. Harout, have you look the RIAA certification for Hannah Montanah albums and singles? I belive RIAA mentioned in the certification who's the singer that portrayed as Hannah Montanah and we just calculated the certification sales that has credited to Miley Cyrus. I hope my explanation clear. Do you have any suggestion? Thanks. Politsi (talk) 05:10, 13 August 2019 (UTC)
 * Harout, do you still on going calculated Cyrus's certified sales. Please informed if you decided not to continue this issue. I will close it. ThanksPolitsi (talk) 11:34, 14 August 2019 (UTC)
 * I'm still not done with going over her certified sales, I might have it ready by Sunday.--Harout72 (talk) 12:40, 14 August 2019 (UTC)
 * So I finished going over Cyrus' certified sales, and they stand at 49.7 million units. I have included all her work as Hannah Montana including the very first Hannah Montana title. She needs to have 56.9 million certified units to get on the list with 77 million claim as her first charted material is from 2006. So I will keep updating her certified sales as I go, and will put her up on the list when she reaches the required amount of certified sales, whichs can be many months actually.--Harout72 (talk) 04:42, 17 August 2019 (UTC)

Thank you. Let's keep the source in archieve.Politsi (talk) 05:28, 17 August 2019 (UTC)

Claim sales
I do a lot of change of claim sales in recent weeks. I updated or lowered claim sales of Jay Z, Lady Gaga, Drake, Katy Perry, Lil Wayne, Reba McEntire, The Black Eye Peas. In the next few weeks or month I will do some changes such as: Tim McGraw-80m, Maroon 5-120m, Chris Brown-120m, Adele-120m, Fleetwood Mac-120m, Drake-170m, Shania Twain-100m, Red Hot Chilli Peppers-90m. With consideration of their year career's and certified sales which is too close to their claim. Harout or anyone, feel free for your suggestion. Thanks Politsi (talk) 00:59, 23 August 2019 (UTC)
 * Red Hot Chili Peppers are fine with their 80 million claim. Shania Twain should also be left where she is for the time being. Tim McGraw is fine too where he is with his claim. I would hold off on Drake also, his certified sales are abnormally streaming generated.--Harout72 (talk) 01:50, 23 August 2019 (UTC)
 * We should updated McGraw's when he passed 70m in certified sales and Shania when she passed 80m in certified sales. As for Drake, I'm also curious, why his certified sales very abnormal even if it's related with streaming system. Politsi (talk) 01:59, 23 August 2019 (UTC)

Rolling Stone is not reliable
I begin to think that the Rolling Stone magazine should be banned as reliable source on the list. That magazine is too focus on popular culture and personal blog. In order to maintain the high quality of the list, we should only use a source from a general news organization like an Online News site and Broadsheet Newspaper. It's okay to put MTV/VH1/Billboard as a reliable source of music industry but NOT a popular culture magazine like Rolling Stone. I will deleted that magazine from the list immediately. Thanks Politsi (talk) 02:00, 25 August 2019 (UTC)

Rihanna under 'United States'
Is Rihanna a U.S. citizen? Or is she just listed as Barbados/U.S. because she works in the industry there? AIowA (talk) 19:49, 1 September 2019 (UTC)

nicky minaj
Harout, her certified sales already reach 99.9. It's time for her to join 100m club. Am I right? Thanks Politsi (talk) 15:18, 3 September 2019 (UTC)
 * Let's use the 100 million claim for her when she's at least at 110 million units with her certified sales. All her recent 2-3 years of certs are streaming generated. Her actual sales should not be more than 70 million as it stands right now.--Harout72 (talk) 15:35, 3 September 2019 (UTC)

Chris brown
Chris Brown has reportedly had a slew of new Platinum plaques and a slew updated Platinum plaque albums and songs and on his page it says he has sold 140 million records worldwide but he's still in the same place on the list (100 million) as he was before are yall gonna put him higher now? since it been updated by riaa — Preceding unsigned comment added by Bhris breezy (talk • contribs) 13:49, 7 September 2019 (UTC)
 * Please find a reliable source to support Brown's 140m claim. Bring it here.Politsi (talk) 15:04, 7 September 2019 (UTC)

here is a reliable source for the usa sales and WW sales https://www.riaa.com/?s=chris+brown

https://www.google.com/search?safe=strict&rlz=1CAXTLW_enUS683US683&biw=1366&bih=641&sxsrf=ACYBGNT32n9RBcNhs4b0YXLV21DpcZYd3A%3A1568683136416&ei=gDSAXYOHGfG1tgXalJTABw&q=chris+brown+worldwide+sales&oq=chris+brown+world&gs_l=psy-ab.1.4.0l8j0i22i30l2.10530.13225..14872...0.0..0.163.684.1j5......0....1..gws-wiz.......0i67j0i131.-X_a_-OEQds

Beyonce
Harout, is it too much now if I put Beyonce with 118m sales? Thanks. Politsi (talk) 13:53, 18 September 2019 (UTC)
 * Let's use that 118 million, when she's closer to 100 million certified units.--Harout72 (talk) 15:33, 18 September 2019 (UTC)

oasis
hello I was wondering if it was time to add oasis to the 75 million sales worldwide list as I'm sure they have more than they need in certified sales for being added to it.2A02:C7F:B09F:5B00:7DB5:FF20:AED3:EEB3 (talk) 09:19, 21 September 2019 (UTC)
 * Oasis's certified sales too low to reach 75m claim. Politsi (talk) 11:51, 21 September 2019 (UTC)

120m club
In the past weeks. I raised Drake, Jay Z, Katy Perry, Lady Gaga, and Fleetwood Mac position to the 120m club. Their high certified sales making them deserved to be on that list. Today, Adele and Rod Stewart will join the 120m club with 120m sales after some consideration. Adele's certified sales already pass 109m and her certified sales is very strong and not the type of streaming system. Rod Stewart's certified sales has passed 80m and his career begin since 1969, so the 100m claim is definetely too low for him. I have a new reliable source for Adele, but the reliable source for Stewart came from 2004. However, I will put it only for temporary until the new one comes. In the next weeks I hope Chris Brown, Lil Wayne, and Maroon 5 able to join the 120m club since I'm still working to find reliable source for them... Harout and Others, feel free for your suggestion. Thanks Politsi (talk) 14:29, 21 September 2019 (UTC)
 * We don't have to update Rod Stewart's claimed figure if the source isn't reliable. If his certified sales get too close to the 100 million mark, then yes, we can use something that isn't all that reliable temporarily. For the time being we don't need to do that. Also, it's best to discuss artists' updates on individual basis, rather than the way you're doing it above.--Harout72 (talk) 16:50, 21 September 2019 (UTC)
 * Okay thanks, I will bring the artist's issue one by one. So we can focus for every artists. I will hold for Stewart but once I get the more reliable one. I will bring it here. Politsi (talk) 17:57, 21 September 2019 (UTC)

Jackson 5/Jackson's
Is it time to add the Jackson's or the Jackson 5 to the 75 million or 100 million, if not then how many records would they need certified in order to get onto the 75 million list, thanks.2A02:C7F:B09F:5B00:A1E2:4ED8:78AE:24D5 (talk) 23:33, 22 September 2019 (UTC)

Michael Jackson's 350 million figure seems low
Any reason for this? I searched the archives for a cursory glance, and there seem to be reliable sources to back up higher claims. The current citations for "claimed sales" don't say where they got those numbers. Many publications just take numbers off of Wikipedia, which would be WP:CIRCULAR. —Partytemple (talk) 20:43, 25 September 2019 (UTC)
 * You should go over the Definitions on the main page, the answer you're looking for is there.--Harout72 (talk) 01:15, 26 September 2019 (UTC)
 * I did. 350 million still seems like an underestimate. —Partytemple (talk) 01:56, 26 September 2019 (UTC)
 * I'm also skeptical at Elvis's numbers. I don't know what formula those citations used, but even with his numerous albums and singles I doubt his combined sales topped Michael Jackson. I have some reliable numbers, if you want them. —Partytemple (talk) 02:49, 26 September 2019 (UTC)

Elvis's numbers: 500-600 million sounds absolutely ridiculous. The Beatles' numbers, too.
I don't know how these numbers come about, but they sound as ridiculous as Michael Jackson's "1 billion" figure that has been reported. Here is a CSPC source with numbers broken down:


 * Elvis Presley, equivalent album sales.


 * Elvis Presley, total album sales.


 * The Beatles, equivalent album sales.


 * The Beatles, total album sales.

—Partytemple (talk) 03:05, 26 September 2019 (UTC)
 * You're wasting your time. I suggest you read up the definitions once again thoroughly. Chartmasters isn't a reliable source, it is a self published source. See also Record charts.--Harout72 (talk) 03:52, 26 September 2019 (UTC)
 * That's an odd judgement to make. Chartmasters has a variety of contributors and cited sources. It's not like the sources in the article is any better. They don't even explain how they got those numbers. The definitions don't preclude Jackson's 750 million or 1 billion figure. I also doubt Elvis is higher than Jackson because of streaming and YouTube numbers. Wikipedia has a poor metric for this article. —Partytemple (talk) 04:40, 26 September 2019 (UTC)
 * @Partytemple Do you see all the source that posted on each claim of every artists? They are come from a highly regarded news organization such as BBC, CBS, Times Group, and several U.S News website. Politsi (talk) 09:33, 26 September 2019 (UTC)
 * @Partytemple The Definitions clearly state This list uses claimed figures that are closest to artists' available certified units: inflated claimed figures that meet the required certified units amount but are unrealistically high, are not used. So yes, they do preclude inflated promotional figures such as the 750 for Jackson, and 1 billion for both Presley and The Beatles. The certified sales that Presley has is 99% non-streaming.--Harout72 (talk) 12:50, 26 September 2019 (UTC)
 * Okay, but that still doesn't explain the 650 million figure. Many "reputable" sources also say 1 billion for both Elvis and Jackson. I think this is a problem coming from WP's own rules about citing record sales. —Partytemple (talk) 19:25, 26 September 2019 (UTC)
 * Currently, both Elvis and Beatles' numbers are "unrealistically high." —Partytemple (talk) 19:47, 26 September 2019 (UTC)
 * Neither Presley's nor The Beatles' sales figures are unrealistically high considering that they are both early beginners. Even the US didn't have a certification system when Presley began first charting. As for The Beatles, only the US had a certification system when they were charting in the early 1960s. Even though, lot of their early records have sold in many parts of the world without being certified, they both still have quite a big number of certified sales.--Harout72 (talk) 00:36, 27 September 2019 (UTC)
 * That is a guess at best. No facts or figures to back that up. I'm aware that the certifications weren't available, but that doesn't mean we should over-count sales when certifications didn't exist. Again, the articles don't state how they got the numbers. This problem stems from WP's poor sourcing. —Partytemple (talk) 09:35, 27 September 2019 (UTC)
 * You're contradicting yourself when you're using that analogy for Presely and claiming that Jackson's 350 million is an underestimate in the discussion thread above?--Harout72 (talk) 12:51, 27 September 2019 (UTC)
 * No, I'm saying the top three artists' numbers aren't accurate. My initial reaction was that Jackson was far too low compared to Elvis and Beatles. Then I realized it's because both Elvis and Beatles are too high. I don't know where you are getting that I'm contradicting myself. Chartmasters broke this down very well, but it's a shame we can't cite that. WP rules use poor methodology. —Partytemple (talk) 19:59, 27 September 2019 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 28 September 2019
Update uk's certified sales:Michael Jackson (Gold for "Black or White", 400,000 units) 49.15.86.197 (talk) 16:23, 28 September 2019 (UTC)
 * All new issued certs are updated here, no need for reminders.--Harout72 (talk) 18:13, 28 September 2019 (UTC)

Eagles to 200m club
Harout. This is weird to see Eagles with nearly 150m in certified sales but their claim still at 150m, while they are a very early beginner. with that amount of certified sales, they should be at 200m club. I still can not find any reliable source to support it but I will use the source from Patch Media / https://patch.com/california/pleasanton/calendar/event/20190914/637052/midnight-flyer-a-tribute-to-the-eagles. It's only for temporary. I will put them. What do you think? Thanks Politsi (talk) 15:09, 9 September 2019 (UTC)
 * I also think that they deserve to be listed with 200 million claim, I guess we can use that source temporarily. Hopefully, a reliable source will publish the 200 mill soon, because we don't want that source supporting one the listed names in the upper sections for a long time.--Harout72 (talk) 00:44, 10 September 2019 (UTC)
 * It's solved, I also re-new some sources and place with more bigger news organization in order to make the list more reliable. Politsi (talk) 18:22, 28 September 2019 (UTC)

Scorpions
Harout, is it possible to bring Scorpions back to the list with 75m. Just in case there is some re-certification. https://www.jpost.com/Israel-News/Culture/The-Scorpions-sweep-Tel-Aviv-with-a-Wind-of-Change-563011 Thanks. Politsi (talk) 18:45, 28 September 2019 (UTC)
 * They've begun charting in 1979, therefore, they need 31.6% certified sales at the least to be on the list. That's 23.7 million certified units needed for 75 million, but their worldwide available certified sales are only some 19 million.--Harout72 (talk) 21:27, 28 September 2019 (UTC)

Mireille Mathieu?
Her article says she has sold over 150 million records worldwide. Dylanvt (talk) 16:59, 30 September 2019 (UTC)

Julio Iglesias
Numbers are wrong and not by only a few million but of the charts..... This link brings you to the GUINNESS WORLD RECORDS, the global authority on record-breaking achievements https://www.guinnessworldrecords.com/news/2013/4/julio-iglesias-receives-world-record-certificate-in-beijing-47865/ — Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.68.175.105 (talk) 01:33, 2 October 2019 (UTC)

Mariah Carey
Please, take into consideration updating Mariah Carey claimed sales. Sources claiming 175 million records are from 2013 and 2014 and she has recently certified many records in the US becoming the second artist with the most certified albums in the US (66.5 million certified only in the US). In addition, the All I want for christmas is you phenomenon is undeniable, giving the single and album many sales across the world. Some updated sources are:

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-7295227/Mariah-Carey-proves-twins-Moroccan-Monroe-eight-following-musical-footsteps.html

https://www.bbc.com/news/entertainment-arts-43726181

https://www.thesun.co.uk/tvandshowbiz/9157981/mariah-carey-looks-incredible-in-a-plunging-satin-suit-after-wowing-fans-at-royal-albert-hall-gig/

https://www.who.com.au/young-mariah-carey-then-and-now

Many thanks! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 213.0.107.44 (talk) 08:30, 11 October 2019 (UTC)


 * Well She already has claimed sales of 200 million like in all your articles, as for removing the lower claims this is what you can find in the archives. Quoting:


 * "Harout, I noticed that several claim sales of those artists in the 200m club such as Queen, Mariah Carey, and Whitney Houston already pass 130m. I think we should erase their 170m-175m claim sales and just leave them with 200m sales. What do you think? Thanks. Politsi (talk) 12:17, 7 August 2019 (UTC)


 * We should consider doing that when their certified sales are closer to 170-175 million. As it stands right now, there is still over 30 million units for Mariah Carey's certified sales and her lower claim, and and some 28 million for Queen's certified sales and their lower claim. The gap is even bigger for Whitney Houston and Celine Dion. We can consider removing Queen's lower claim once their certified sales reach 155-160 million.--Harout72 (talk) 13:04, 7 August 2019 (UTC)"


 * Strongerq (talk) 11:16, 13 October 2019 (UTC)

Mariah Carey 220m
For an artist starting in 1990, I think its more than fair to now list the 220m figure as well. 220m & 200m now that she's at 165m certifications.-- Peter Griffin  &bull;  Talk2Me   23:45, 13 October 2019 (UTC)
 * Our first move will be removing the 175 million claim once Carey collects a few more million in certified units. The 220 million should not be used here until she reaches 185-190 million with here certified sales. As it stands right now, there is still 55 million units of gap between her available certified sales and the 220 million claim. That should not exist if she's really sold 220 million. Even Austria, Switzerland, Brazil had certification systems in 1990.--Harout72 (talk) 01:39, 14 October 2019 (UTC)
 * Harout. Carey's recent certification is based on streaming or pure certification? Because if it’s from a pure certification, I think it's okay to leave her with only 200m claim. But not the 220m. The 220m should be used when Carey reach at least 185m claim.Politsi (talk) 09:03, 14 October 2019 (UTC)
 * At least 25% of here recent certifications should be streaming generated. Unless her actual figures are published by Billboard, we won't know, we don't have direct access to checking her actual sales.--Harout72 (talk) 13:13, 14 October 2019 (UTC)
 * Okay then, it should be okay for her now to have only 200m claim. Politsi (talk) 04:13, 15 October 2019 (UTC)
 * Since we both agreed that the recent certifications are at least 25% streaming generated, shouldn't we have waited for Carey to get to 170 million with her certified sales until we removed the 175 claim? Anyways, I guess it's fine since the gap wasn't big.--Harout72 (talk) 14:07, 15 October 2019 (UTC)

Carey's certified sales already reach 165.9m and her career begin in 1990. And yes, the gap wasn't big so she deserved to have a full 200m claim. Politsi (talk) 15:33, 15 October 2019 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 22 October 2019
At the end of the introduction please add on: "Only Sir Paul McCartney and Phil Collins appear on the list twice, both as a member of a band and as a solo artist." because this should be highlighted as it can be easily missed among the lists and so doesn't reflect their impact musically or culturally. Using the statistics supplied on the lists, if their sales figures as a band member and a solo artist were combined it would place them far higher on the list than most other artists. It would not only distinguish McCartney's place as being so far ahead of anyone in music history, but just as importantly reflect that Collins is in the very top group of artists of 250 million reputed sales. The support for the suggested sentence to add is the actual data provided by the reference on the page. Mimaroba (talk) 06:25, 22 October 2019 (UTC)
 * I don't see the necessity for this.--Harout72 (talk) 13:04, 22 October 2019 (UTC)

Eminem certified sales
Hi! While adding the new certification for Eminem's "'Till I Collapse" (it went double platinum in Italy on Monday), its total certified units in Italy were lowered instead of being increased. Is this due to a previous error in the total certified units? Anyway, if it's possible, I am interested in getting the updated file listing all his available certifications. , I see that you sometimes provide this file for individual artists in this talk page, could you please share it? Thank you for your tireless contribution! --Stee888 (talk) 16:39, 23 October 2019 (UTC)
 * The first digit was to supposed to be changed to a nine in that update, which I must have missed, which resulted in not affecting the grand total, it is fixed now. It was certified Gold for 25,000 units, now it is certified 2x Platinum for 100,000 units, which added 75,000 units to Italy's total. Thanks for bringing this to my attention, here is the file.--Harout72 (talk) 22:08, 23 October 2019 (UTC)
 * Ok, thanks! I think there are some missing certifications in the file:
 * "Homicide" (single) by Logic feat. Eminem is Platinum in the U.S.
 * "Best Friend" (single) by Yelawolf feat. Eminem is Gold in the U.S.
 * "River" (single) is Platinum in Norway
 * "Revival" (album) is Platinum in Norway
 * "Kamikaze" (album) is Gold in Norway
 * "My Life" (single) by 50 Cent feat. Eminem & Adam Levine is Gold in Australia
 * "My Life" (single) by 50 Cent feat. Eminem & Adam Levine is Silver in the U.K.
 * If I'm not wrong, could you please add them? Thanks. Stee888 (talk) 23:04, 23 October 2019 (UTC)
 * I'll look into everything except for Norway as I'm still leaving the certs of Norway out for all artists, at least until I get their certification levels for all periods.--Harout72 (talk) 23:44, 23 October 2019 (UTC)
 * Ok, thank you very much! Stee888 (talk) 18:16, 24 October 2019 (UTC)

The Weeknd
He's sold 77 million units in the US alone, at least 5 million in Canada, would it be fair to add him into the 100 million range worldwide?

Eminem
Harout. I want to add 230m for Eminem and will deleted his 220m claim. What do you think? thanks Politsi (talk) 01:58, 26 October 2019 (UTC)
 * Eminem was issued too many certifications in 2018 by the RIAA, most of which must have reached the certification levels due to streaming. Let's upgrade his claim from 220 million to 230 million when he's at 240-245 million. As it stands right now, Eminem's actual sales should be way below the 200 million mark.--Harout72 (talk) 12:31, 26 October 2019 (UTC)

Barbra Streisand
Harout. I think we should raise Streisand's claim sales to 150m, since the 145m claim is kind of old, since 2012. I see she has a few million certified in recent years. She is also has a better certified sales than Aerosmith and Phil Collins. Is it okay? Politsi (talk) 02:10, 26 October 2019 (UTC)
 * She's barley collected some 1.7 million in certified units since 2013. Personally, I don't think she's sold 150 million records worldwide, but my thoughts are also the same about Aerosmith. Phil Collins has scored internationally big, all markets including the smaller ones have significantly high certified sales, even though he's an early beginner. But to be on the fair side of it all, since Aerosmith is listed with overblown 150 million claim, I guess it's ok to have Streisand with 150 million claim also, since she's begun earlier and has more certified sales.--Harout72 (talk) 12:48, 26 October 2019 (UTC)

This page needs better organization
Why are the artists organized by unproven sales claims, rather than the certified totals? Also, lumping them into arbitrary sales ranges is odd. What is the reason for this and how were the ranges chosen?

Drake's placement is way off. How can he be listed lower than artists of whom he has twice the record sales? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Snippert (talk • contribs) 19:44, 2 November 2019 (UTC)
 * Read the Definitions please.--Harout72 (talk) 20:45, 2 November 2019 (UTC)

My questions are not answered in the definitions, as far I I can tell. One item that was surely not mentioned is the grouping of artists by arbitrary sales rages. You have not defined your method. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Snippert (talk • contribs) 22:15, 2 November 2019 (UTC)
 * @Snippert what is your purpose here? and what do you mean with "unproven sales claims"? Have you seen all sources that posted in the list? They are the world's most respected news organization. Politsi (talk) 03:05, 3 November 2019 (UTC)
 * As far as your question about Drake, I suggest that you read the part that explains about streaming.--Harout72 (talk) 22:37, 2 November 2019 (UTC)

Asking my purpose is unacceptable and sounds like a thinly veiled ad hominem attack. Please keep the argument academic.

The Claimed Sales list is comprised of non academic, general media sources. The BBC is not a valid source unless corroborated with a confirmed authority.

Also, the arbitrary sales range question is being clearly avoided. What is the method? The question has not been answered. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Snippert (talk • contribs) 03:41, 3 November 2019 (UTC)
 * @Snippert Saying this list organized by unproven sales claims without any early discussion also unacceptable. If you want to have the argument look academically. Please begin by yourself. Politsi (talk) 04:57, 3 November 2019 (UTC)

Ad hominem attacks are bizarrely allowed in an academic discussion without consequence? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Snippert (talk • contribs) 05:10, 3 November 2019 (UTC)

I am only interested in productive discussion. Let's debate the topics at hand. The arbitrary grouping of artists has not been defined. Again, what is the method. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Snippert (talk • contribs) 05:22, 3 November 2019 (UTC)
 * Have you read the explanation at the top of the list? you better be carefull before saying that BBC News is not a valid source, BBC news is the world's largest broadcast news organisation and regarded as one of the most Reliable sources to use, that's why I'm asking you to not put some argument without initial discussion and what is your true purpose for the list?.Politsi (talk) 06:19, 3 November 2019 (UTC)
 * Politsi, he/she has no purpose. Regardless how many different ways we try to explain a disruptive person like that how the list is operated, they will still shoot back with some nonsensical comment such as your answer's not satisfactory, my question's not answered, you're not being academic, so on and so forth. Before you realize it, you will have wasted hours with someone who's not here to contribute. Snippert is just a cantankerous individual who's pissed off because Drake is not on the top of the list.--Harout72 (talk) 07:03, 3 November 2019 (UTC)

I think all music artists need some more percentage on certified sales
Some older artists seem too lower percentage. Furthermore, it indicates they get too inflated claims while their contemporary peers already achieved nearly certain results until today. Of course, I surely agree that four decades ago there was few audio institutions even in Western developed countries except US, UK, Germany, France, Canada and other specific nations. However, what about numerous artists who are over half of certifications as they started charting before 1980s?

I think an artist who has available claimed figures supported by under 30%, 33.3% or 40% needs to be removed regardless of his or her first charting year. 20% means too lower. Then, we need to sum up percentage by following years by years to reach 64% and 70%.

--Zenithal9714 (talk) 13:45, 7 November 2019 (UTC)
 * Obviously, our opinion is clearly the list as it stands right now with all its rules. Frankly it's not even 100% understandable what it is you're saying, too lower?--Harout72 (talk) 13:55, 7 November 2019 (UTC)

"Too lower:" the one I thought of 20% as.

The world market share ratio took 30% to 50% of gross units even between 1975 and 1979, according to table. And there were many artists who are over one-third of certification although they started their Billboard charting earlier than 1980s. Some of them are even more than two-fifth or an half.

For example, I agree with Kiss, Barry Manilow, Johnny Hallyday, Meaf Loaf, Johnny Cash, Earth, Wind & Fire, Stevie Wonder, Olivia Newton-John and others. Nevertheless, I disagree with Frank Sinatra, The Beach Boys, The Who, Barry White and others. --Zenithal9714 (talk) 12:18, 9 November 2019 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 14 November 2019
The band Queen have claimed to have 300 million sales. Here is the link for it https://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-1169307/For-time--Queen-Ten-great-hits-sensational-rock-band-todays-The-Mail-Sunday.html.

Thanks, Brian Ruff. Brff19 (talk) 14:21, 14 November 2019 (UTC)
 * Read the Definitions please, it explains why widely published inflated sales figures are left out on this list.--Harout72 (talk) 15:29, 14 November 2019 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 16 November 2019
U2 has sold ~175 million copies Luchophelps13 (talk) 21:24, 16 November 2019 (UTC)
 * Red information icon with gradient background.svg Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. Eggishorn (talk) (contrib) 21:52, 16 November 2019 (UTC)

Alla Pugacheva
There are currently no Russian/Soviet/Slavic acts in this article, although the Russian music market is perhaps one of the largest in the world. Therefore, I was wondering whether we could add Alla Pugacheva, although I am not sure how we can suffice the requirements for non-Western artists, as hit lists were not really a thing in the Soviet Union. It is for example claimed that Alla Pugacheva sold an estimated 250 million copies according to various sources (https://www.unian.net/lite/stars/10514181-alle-pugachevoy-70-interesnye-fakty-o-tvorchestve-primadonny-kotoryh-vy-ne-znali-video.html), including a line in her Encyclopædia Britannica article that says that number was estimated in 1997. On top of that, it is also mentioned in her own Wiki articles https://www.britannica.com/biography/Alla-Pugacheva. In a 1997 artice of the New York Times, it is claimed she sold at least 100 million records. https://www.nytimes.com/1997/04/23/arts/most-famous-singer-in-russia-but-invisible-in-the-west.html. How can we proceed on this? 2001:985:CE83:1:2C41:B163:1312:ECF2 (talk) 19:30, 17 November 2019 (UTC)

Bon Jovi
Harout, I think we should seriously to consider bringing Bon Jovi with 120m claim. They are already reach 85.5m, their certification worlwide is so excellent and they are begin since early 1980s. 100m claim only for them is too low. 120m is better now. What do you think? Thanks. Politsi (talk) 03:39, 26 November 2019 (UTC)
 * Let's wait until they reach the 90+ million mark with their certified sales as we've discussed before.--Harout72 (talk) 05:03, 26 November 2019 (UTC)

Britney Spears
Britney Spears already sell 220 Million Records: 150 worldwide and 70 million in US
 * https://www.billboard.com/articles/columns/chart-beat/8493258/britney-spears-career-sales-baby-one-more-time-20th-anniversary-ask-billboard
 * https://www.billboard.com/articles/columns/chart-beat/6509510/ask-billboard-britney-spearss-career-sales
 * https://www.officialcharts.com/chart-news/britney-spears-her-biggest-selling-singles-and-albums-revealed__9774/
 * https://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/britney-spears/article-5528867/What-Britney-Spearss-net-worth.html
 * https://www.qwant.com/music/artist/britney-spears?l=en
 * https://www.ticketmaster.ie/Britney-Spears-tickets/artist/945152
 * https://books.google.com.my/books?id=zs1CDwAAQBAJ&pg=PA1722&lpg=PA1722&dq=britney+spears+selling+records+150+worldwide&source=bl&ots=wyZfQRXsvF&sig=ACfU3U1gYdQjTrqSG4DmwVvVQj7RodGLow&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiBpoWh8pjmAhWLe30KHcrCAq8Q6AEwE3oECGkQAQ#v=onepage&q=britney%20spears%20selling%20records%20150%20worldwide&f=false
 * https://books.google.com.my/books?id=Hs5CDwAAQBAJ&pg=PA2443&lpg=PA2443&dq=britney+spears+selling+records+150+worldwide&source=bl&ots=Cd5Pdqaf78&sig=ACfU3U2UQ5z7Qqw0S4NfT10UD_HRHZY16A&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiBpoWh8pjmAhWLe30KHcrCAq8Q6AEwFHoECGoQAQ#v=onepage&q=britney%20spears%20selling%20records%20150%20worldwide&f=false
 * https://popculture.com/celebrity/2019/04/04/britney-spears-rollercoaster-career-personal-life-throughout-years/
 * https://www.breakingnews.ie/showbiz/britney-spearss-las-vegas-residency-unlikely-to-go-ahead-her-manager-says-924602.html
 * https://www.tmisrael.co.il/event/BRSIL/ALL/en
 * https://www.stubhub.com/britney-spears-tickets/performer/5462/


 * @Johhnyfrankie13 First, sign your posts. Second, do not copy and paste nonsense from ticket master's site or anywhere else. Most of your sources above are unreliable, and they do speak of 150 million records, not 220 million. You need to read the Definitions once and for all as I have brought that to your attentions multiple times when you edited the main page in the past. Britney Spears cannot be listed with a claimed sales as high as 150 million, because her certified sales should be at least 103.2 million for that. Even if she manages somehow to collect another 19 million on the top of her current 84 million certified units, that won't mean she's actually sold 150 million records worldwide. As it stands right now, we cannot make any changes to her claimed sales.--Harout72 (talk) 14:09, 3 December 2019 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 4 December 2019
Garth Brooks has sold 148 million albums. Elvis has sold 146.5 million albums. Garth Brooks name isn’t even listed at all on this wikipedia page and it should be. 67.149.86.70 (talk) 17:25, 4 December 2019 (UTC)
 * When I view the page, Garth Brooks is listed first in the section. &#8209;&#8209; El Hef  ( Meep? ) 19:05, 4 December 2019 (UTC)

Italian artist
Why they don't appear here? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Italian_estimated_best-selling_music_artists — Preceding unsigned comment added by 47.53.6.3 (talk) 12:06, 9 December 2019 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 16 December 2019
Madonna has sold more records than Elton John. She has sold over 300 million while Elton John has sold approximately 250 million. Madonna is a higher selling artist. Meyoumeyoume (talk) 05:17, 16 December 2019 (UTC)
 * If you have better sources than those that are cited in the article, please post them here. – Jonesey95 (talk) 05:47, 16 December 2019 (UTC)

Drake
Harout. What do you think if I raise Drake's to 170m?Politsi (talk) 11:35, 16 December 2019 (UTC)
 * Let's keep him on the list with 150 million claim for now. This guy's certified sales are only flying forward at this rate because of streaming not because of digital downloads, or albums sales. Let's use the 170 million once he's at 320 million with his certified sales, which I'm sure won't take that long.--Harout72 (talk) 14:19, 16 December 2019 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 1 January 2020
Please change Taylor Swift's UK Certifications to 12.4 million records as "Lover" was certified Silver on December 13, 2019 according to their official twitter account and their website. Thank you. I look forward to your response promptly. LtheMaster12 (talk) 18:40, 1 January 2020 (UTC)
 * It's already included in the total as it's also posted in the BPI database.--Harout72 (talk) 20:04, 1 January 2020 (UTC)

Muse
Muse are one of most popular rock bands. Are they close to include on this list? Esambuu (talk) 11:30, 13 January 2020 (UTC)

The Police
Update the Police's US certified sales from 23.150 million to 24.650 million as their song Every Breath You Take was certified gold in America for the sales of 1,000,000 singles sold in 1983. Singles certified gold in the US were for selling 1 million singles until 1989. 2112obiA (talk) 21:39, 22 January 2020 (UTC)


 * The source for the RIAA's earlier certification-levels is actually posted in the Notes section, so yes we are aware and the aforementioned Gold certification is listed for 1 million units.--Harout72 (talk) 01:15, 23 January 2020 (UTC)

Change the Polices certified sales from 23.150 million to 23.650 million because the you forgot to include Sting and Police Greatest hits which was certified Gold in 2005. 2112obiA (talk) 03:21, 23 January 2020 (UTC)


 * Keep your discussion in the same thread as it's for the same artist. It's added now.--Harout72 (talk) 14:23, 23 January 2020 (UTC)

Nicki Minaj
It is well known that Nicki Minaj has became, in 2019, the first female rapper to surpass 100 million RIAA certified units across albums, singles and features. She is now sitting at more than 113m RIAA units. Would be great the update that. Thanks — Preceding unsigned comment added by Onikaflow (talk • contribs) 19:26, 28 January 2020 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 28 January 2020
Nicki Minaj France certifications are at a total of 766,666 units Onikaflow (talk) 19:13, 28 January 2020 (UTC)
 * Red information icon with gradient background.svg Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. This applies to the section below as well. This should not need saying, but "it is well known" is not a reliable source. Eggishorn (talk) (contrib) 21:39, 28 January 2020 (UTC)
 * I'm counting 666,000 units for France. See the table below.--Harout72 (talk) 06:30, 29 January 2020 (UTC)

Jennifer Lopez 80 Million records needs to be added
Jennifer Lopez discography her discography says she's sold 80 Million a few other sources, Forbes, MTV have also backed this claim can we see about adding her to the list? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2603:3006:404:BE00:9DC4:F2DE:2C28:8D96 (talk) 01:01, 24 January 2020 (UTC)

People (magazine) just also posted an article with the 80 Million records line aswell — Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.182.51.254 (talk) 23:53, 24 January 2020 (UTC)


 * I would love her to be included too, but her certifications are too low. She has less than 40 million copies in certified sales (I think), and need to has her claimed figures supported by 72% certified sales, which would be 57.6 million. :( !--88marcus (talk) 00:07, 25 January 2020 (UTC)
 * That's correct Lopez's certified sales are only 36.8 million. She's required to have her claimed figures supported by 69.4% certified sales, that's 55.5 million certified units for 80 million claim.--Harout72 (talk) 01:51, 25 January 2020 (UTC)
 * Hello Harout72 you forgot to include the Gold certification for Dinero in the US(https://www.riaa.com/gold-platinum/?tab_active=default-award&se=Dinero#search_section). Thank You.--Jlo Fan 1999 (Talk) 15:54, 29. Jan. 2019 (CET)
 * It's added on my document now, but it doesn't help her certified sales all that much.--Harout72 (talk) 15:23, 29 January 2020 (UTC)

Best Selling Artists
Frank Sinatra? He sold millions of records before record sales were officially certified. Just surprised he is not listed anywhere on this page. He must have reached at least 75 million, worldwide? Daleftone (talk) 22:49, 19 January 2020 (UTC)

Frank's listed on this page. His sales figure is reported as 150 million, same as on his own page. — Preceding unsigned comment added by FukangShet (talk • contribs) 01:50, 3 February 2020 (UTC)

120 million to 199 million records
Requesting Chris Brown's sample at the top of the "120 million to 199 million records" section be removed and replaced by one depicting Frank Sinatra, due to Chris Brown controversies and lack of 20th century artists pictured as examples for this section. — Preceding unsigned comment added by FukangShet (talk • contribs) 01:59, 3 February 2020 (UTC)

Adding Mariah Carey 220m Claim
Having begun accumulating certifications in 1990 and that figure now standing at 168m (84% of 200m & 76% of 220m), I believe it is now more than appropriate to add a "220m" figure for Carey.-- Peter Griffin  &bull;  Talk2Me   03:15, 4 February 2020 (UTC)
 * We discussed this not long ago when Carey was at 165 million with her certified sales. Back then, the 175 million was removed, but as we agreed the 220 million will be implemented when Carey's at 185 million with her certified sales.--Harout72 (talk) 04:06, 4 February 2020 (UTC)
 * Respectfully, I don't think it is fair to have specific rules and criterion listed and then argue to raise the bar in specific instances. I don't see any wide ranging consensus on the matter, just your own personal viewpoints. You've done a lot of good work on this article but this appears to be ownership and you weighing your opinion as final and decisive. I'm not going to engage in a long debate but I think the numbers speak for themselves.-- Peter Griffin  &bull;  Talk2Me   05:35, 4 February 2020 (UTC)
 * Actually, the Definitions clearly state "This list uses claimed figures that are closest to artists' available certified units: inflated claimed figures that meet the required certified units amount but are unrealistically high, are not used". It also, states "The claimed figures are upgraded only when there is a significant progress in artists' certified units. In other words, the available certified units for each artist should get relatively closer to already listed claimed figure in order for higher figures to replace the listed ones". Between now and your previous discussion, we haven't seen any significant progress in Carey's certified sales. Honestly, had a singer-who's begun charting in 1990-sold 220 million records, would have accumulated close to 200 million certified units. Let's re-visit this discussion when she's between 180 and 185 million with her certified sales. Fair enough?--Harout72 (talk) 06:18, 4 February 2020 (UTC)

Madonna's photo
I don't wanna change anything without a previous notification or comments from other users =). Maybe we can use for Madonna. It's one of her most associated style and this a list of consulted by all types of readers and countries. This is a portrait photograph too. Please let me know to proceed with this "minor" change. Thanks, --Chrishonduras (talk) 22:35, 8 February 2020 (UTC)
 * I personally don't mind, but isn't it better to use a recent/newer photo as the one we have? After all, the iconic style Madonna had in early 1990s is no longer perceived as her persona.--Harout72 (talk) 23:32, 8 February 2020 (UTC)
 * That's what I mean, depends on each point of view and to avoid unnecesary reverts. Keep it up with the recent pic and in case of someone else comment about the second one, maybe. Cheers, --Chrishonduras (talk) 02:59, 9 February 2020 (UTC)

Madonna claimed sales are over 335 millions according to Guinness World Record
This figure was already published on the 2015 Guinness World Record book and include Madonna sales from her formal recording company Warner Music only and based on detailed numbers on the link being equal to the ones Warner Music provided by the released of 2009 compilation "Celebration" I would say numbers must have been provided not long after that.

They also say it's conclusive that only Elvis Presley, The Beatles and Michael Jackson sold more records than Madonna. This means she should be ahead of Elton John on that chart.

There are several fan websites claiming sales over 350 million already (and they are probably right as Madonna did 3 world tours, released 3 studio albums, 3 new live albums and 10 new singles on the meanwhile with a new record company - and her back catalog kept selling during this decade being regular on TOP 200 iTunes charts in dozens of countries).

Here is the link to proof what I'm saying (Guinness World Records it's one of the most reliable sources worldwide):

https://www.guinnessworldrecords.com/world-records/best-selling-female-recording-artist?fb_comment_id=751374691584982_812339138821870 — Preceding unsigned comment added by 95.94.43.146 (talk) 11:16, 12 February 2020 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 13 February 2020
Change the Police certified US from 23.650 million to 24.650 million as the song Every Breath Yo Take was certified Gold in 1983 134.204.15.62 (talk) 22:36, 13 February 2020 (UTC)


 * Didn't you discuss this here not long ago at this thread here?--Harout72 (talk) 01:27, 14 February 2020 (UTC)

Shakira 80M
According an article byCBS News (2020), she sold 80M records https://www.cbsnews.com/news/superstar-singer-shakira-once-teased-by-school-classmates-for-singing-like-a-goat-60-minutes-2020-01-05/ — Preceding unsigned comment added by 190.232.241.152 (talk) 00:34, 15 February 2020 (UTC)

Shakira's SPOTIFY "About" (artist description) also confirms the above claim by CBS: https://open.spotify.com/artist/0EmeFodog0BfCgMzAIvKQp/about

Green Day 75m
Are they ready to be on the list Harout? https://www.usatoday.com/story/life/music/2014/10/09/rock-and-roll-hall-of-fame-nominees-green-day-nine-inch-nails-lou-reed/16852249/ thanks Politsi (talk) 09:57, 15 February 2020 (UTC)
 * I added them to the list.--Harout72 (talk) 17:39, 15 February 2020 (UTC)

Queen
Harout, Queen's certified sales has reach 146m. I think we should leave them with 200m only, just like Eagles since they are from the same era. Is it right? thanks Politsi (talk) 13:58, 18 February 2020 (UTC)
 * Yup, we can do that when their certified sales are also close to 150 million.--Harout72 (talk) 14:54, 18 February 2020 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 18 February 2020
Update the Police's certified Australian sales from 407,500 to 477,500 as the album "their greatest hits" was certified 5× platinum in 2016. Zhuwazi78 (talk) 22:32, 18 February 2020 (UTC)

What makes you believe that it's not included and needs an update? By the way, if you are using two different accounts including the one above and also 2112obiA, I suggest you to stick to only one of them. It's obvious that this thread here was posted by you.--Harout72 (talk) 02:15, 19 February 2020 (UTC)

Coldplay
Something Just Like This has certified 7x Platinum in US Esambuu (talk) 05:48, 25 February 2020 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 26 February 2020
I'd like to update Nicki Minaj's sales, which are now up to 120,5 millions worldwide based on certifications. I've done it fo the French version of this page. In the US alone, she has surpassed 100 certified RIAA units a while ago now, which has been reported in several publications. GeHum (talk) 13:38, 26 February 2020 (UTC)
 * Please don't make any edits on the main page without having a detailed discussion here on the talk page. You should also go over the Definitions on the main page which explains when the sales figures are updated. As for Minaj's certified sales, you should refer to this file which lists all of the certifications for Nicki Minaj's that are included on the main page of the list. Note that the certifications for songs/singles by more than three artists are not included on this list.--Harout72 (talk) 14:27, 26 February 2020 (UTC)

Drake
Drake has the highest confirmed number of all, and much higher than his own "claimed" and I understand this list is sorted by claimed and not certified but it's plain Drake should be in the top section. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.209.132.6 (talk) 14:08, 20 February 2020 (UTC)

I'm looking at the page and it says "US: 246.34 million" but when you check the source (RIAA.com) they only claim 25.5 million. Other I'm reading something wrong, or that number is severly miscalculated. Same issue with Rihanna, it says "US: 201.55 million" referring to RIAA but they claim it's 22.5 million. Johanneswiberg (talk) 17:49, 28 February 2020 (UTC)
 * Johanneswiberg, before you posted your comment above, did you consider to click on (Top Artists/Digital Singles) also on that RIAA's page?--Harout72 (talk) 03:21, 29 February 2020 (UTC)
 * Harout72 I did write "Other I'm reading something wrong, or(...)". And even if I hadn't, why would you reply in such a rude way? Johanneswiberg (talk) 15:51, 1 March 2020 (UTC)
 * I'm not seeing anything rude on my end, but I'm surely noticing rudeness in your comment above which discounts the thousands of hours that I've spent in collecting all the data.--Harout72 (talk) 17:20, 1 March 2020 (UTC)
 * Are you serious? I responded to someone who saw a discrepancy in the numbers. I saw the same discrepancy. It's quite obvious that the discrepancy is due to conflating album sales and singles sales into "record sales" which makes the entire list very unclear, not considering the discrepancies in sales reports from various international sources. I did a quick check at the source and found a number much closer to the "claimed sales" figure. I did not, as you pointed out, check the singles column, which was a mistake on my part. Your respons was "before you posted your comment above, did you consider to (...)". You don't see how that is rude? You could have written "I think you missed the singles sales" or "that's just albums sales, you made a mistake". That would be blunt but not rude, like your comment. Next, you claim that me even daring to dispute your numbers is rude, as if verifying facts is somehow something bad? BTW are you saying that you've spent years of your life gathering statistics for this page? Because thousands of hours is quite a lot. Johanneswiberg (talk) 08:36, 3 March 2020 (UTC)
 * Initially I thought your comment you posted was deliberate which seemed both rude and/or disruptive, but now that you described that looking at albums and singles sales makes things unclear, I realize that you are simply lost when it comes to the music industry. There is nothing unclear about the list as you believe it, it's just an unfamiliar territory for you it seems. Yes, I have literally spend thousands of hours gathering detailed certified sales such as this for Drake and all other artists on the list since 2009. I have also detailed certified sales for another hundred artists including some that were once listed with 50 million claims, and some that have not qualified to be on the list.--Harout72 (talk) 14:17, 3 March 2020 (UTC)


 * I'm out. You seem very happy here in your personal kingdom of one wikipedia page. Thousands of hours. And it's the people who haven't done thousands of hours that are "simply lost". I'm certainly no expert when it comes to the music industry (I'm a music teacher, musician and low level producer) so I guess I and everyone else who hasn't wasted years of our lives should stay out of your playpen. Okaynowbyebyethen. Johanneswiberg (talk) 21:52, 3 March 2020 (UTC)
 * A musician, a producer and a music teacher? I'm hoping you made that up for arguments sake, if not, then I'm hoping you're the only music teacher who doesn't have the slightest clue that the certifying bodies certify singles and videos also. You considering my thousands of hours of free work a complete waste of time shows your disrespectful and disruptive intentions which were obvious from the beginning of the thread.--Harout72 (talk) 02:07, 4 March 2020 (UTC)

lil wayne section
Harout, what's wrong with lil wayne section? Politsi (talk) 01:47, 5 March 2020 (UTC)
 * I fixed it.--Harout72 (talk) 02:48, 5 March 2020 (UTC)

Beyonce
Since Beyonce already at the top of the list and she now has 95m certified. Is it okay to have her with 118m? Thanks Politsi (talk) 01:49, 5 March 2020 (UTC)
 * Let's use that when she's at 98 million with her certified sales.--Harout72 (talk) 02:49, 5 March 2020 (UTC)

Period active
What's the point of saying when said artist began performing? Surely we should only be concerned about when their first record was released since this is purely about record sales? To say Michael Jackson was active since 1964 is unimportant when his first (solo) record wasn't till 1971, same with Madonna - active since 1979, but she has no record sales till 1982. It may as well say what year they were born for all the use that information is. It's also equally pointless to say Elvis Presley was only active till 77 when his record sales have continued to date as has The Beatles - their record sales didn't end in 1970. The column should be scrapped. Tuzapicabit (talk) 10:55, 7 March 2020 (UTC)

Depeche Mode
Depeche Mode is not on this list even though according to their wikipedia page with source they have sold over 100 million albums. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.254.21.90 (talk) 08:44, 19 March 2020 (UTC)

Lady Gaga
Harout. I have 149m claim for Lady Gaga / https://www.emirates247.com/entertainment/confirmed-lady-gaga-to-perform-in-dubai-on-september-10-2014-05-12-1.548756 when we can use it for her? is it possible right now? most of her certified units not come from streaming but real sales. What do you think? Thanks Politsi (talk) 02:08, 21 March 2020 (UTC)

Miley Cyrus's 75m claim
Harout. I think her certified units make possible for her to get 75m claim. I try to find the best source for her but still I can't find the good one. If Cyrus's certified sales able for her to get 75m claim, we should bring her into the list. We could use a source from The Irish Sun / https://www.thesun.ie/tvandshowbiz/4524546/megan-mckenna-and-miley-cyrus-strike-up-unlikely-friendship-after-hitting-it-off-on-twitter/ only for temporary. The Irish content is more reliable than U.K edition. So we can use it only for temporary until I find the reliable one. Need your help, Thanks Politsi (talk) 02:33, 21 March 2020 (UTC)
 * Miley Cyrus needs to have the 75 million claim supported by 73.9% certified sales as she's begun charting in 2006 as Hannah Montana, that's 55.4 million certified units. Currently her worldwide available certified sales are still 50.7 million. So not much has changed since our last discussion here.--Harout72 (talk) 14:50, 21 March 2020 (UTC)

ABBA's 140m records
Harout. I just read this source https://caerphilly.observer/news/977926/abba-tribute-group-to-perform-in-bedwas/ it's Caerphilly Observer and is an award-winning independent newspaper serving Caerphilly County Borough. The source only mention 140m records for ABBA. I think it's reliable enough at least for now. We should use only 140m records claim for ABBA and remove their 150m/100m claim. What do you think? Thanks Politsi (talk) 02:16, 21 March 2020 (UTC)
 * But the 150 million we have for them is also reliable. So the difference of only 10 million is probably unworthy to make changes. I personally don't mind if you want to replace the 150 with 140 million. As for the 100 million claim, once they get close to the 70 million mark with their certified sales, I believe we can remove the 100 million claim because they have been quite popular in the European continent, and most of the smaller markets there didn't have a certification-system in early '70s. But as it stands right now, their available certified sales suggest that their records sales lies between 100 million and 150 million max.--Harout72 (talk) 15:02, 21 March 2020 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 1 January 2020
Please change Taylor Swift's UK Certifications to 12.4 million records as "Lover" was certified Silver on December 13, 2019 according to their official twitter account and their website. Thank you. I look forward to your response promptly. LtheMaster12 (talk) 18:40, 1 January 2020 (UTC)
 * It's already included in the total as it's also posted in the BPI database.--Harout72 (talk) 20:04, 1 January 2020 (UTC)

Muse
Muse are one of most popular rock bands. Are they close to include on this list? Esambuu (talk) 11:30, 13 January 2020 (UTC)

Best Selling Artists
Frank Sinatra? He sold millions of records before record sales were officially certified. Just surprised he is not listed anywhere on this page. He must have reached at least 75 million, worldwide? Daleftone (talk) 22:49, 19 January 2020 (UTC)

The Police
Update the Police's US certified sales from 23.150 million to 24.650 million as their song Every Breath You Take was certified gold in America for the sales of 1,000,000 singles sold in 1983. Singles certified gold in the US were for selling 1 million singles until 1989. 2112obiA (talk) 21:39, 22 January 2020 (UTC)


 * The source for the RIAA's earlier certification-levels is actually posted in the Notes section, so yes we are aware and the aforementioned Gold certification is listed for 1 million units.--Harout72 (talk) 01:15, 23 January 2020 (UTC)

Change the Polices certified sales from 23.150 million to 23.650 million because the you forgot to include Sting and Police Greatest hits which was certified Gold in 2005. 2112obiA (talk) 03:21, 23 January 2020 (UTC)


 * Keep your discussion in the same thread as it's for the same artist. It's added now.--Harout72 (talk) 14:23, 23 January 2020 (UTC)

Jennifer Lopez 80 Million records needs to be added
Jennifer Lopez discography her discography says she's sold 80 Million a few other sources, Forbes, MTV have also backed this claim can we see about adding her to the list? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2603:3006:404:BE00:9DC4:F2DE:2C28:8D96 (talk) 01:01, 24 January 2020 (UTC)

People (magazine) just also posted an article with the 80 Million records line aswell — Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.182.51.254 (talk) 23:53, 24 January 2020 (UTC)


 * I would love her to be included too, but her certifications are too low. She has less than 40 million copies in certified sales (I think), and need to has her claimed figures supported by 72% certified sales, which would be 57.6 million. :( !--88marcus (talk) 00:07, 25 January 2020 (UTC)
 * That's correct Lopez's certified sales are only 36.8 million. She's required to have her claimed figures supported by 69.4% certified sales, that's 55.5 million certified units for 80 million claim.--Harout72 (talk) 01:51, 25 January 2020 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 28 January 2020
Nicki Minaj France certifications are at a total of 766,666 units Onikaflow (talk) 19:13, 28 January 2020 (UTC)
 * Red information icon with gradient background.svg Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. This applies to the section below as well. This should not need saying, but "it is well known" is not a reliable source. Eggishorn (talk) (contrib) 21:39, 28 January 2020 (UTC)

Maybe if you would just look on her Wikipedia Discography page (where certifications are provided by RIAA.com itself) and add all her RIAA plaques, you'd see she's at more than 115 million. Also Tusa got a SNEP gold certification. Thank you — Preceding unsigned comment added by Onikaflow (talk • contribs) 05:05, 5 April 2020 (UTC)
 * I think reading the Definitions on the main page would be a good starting point for you, especially the last paragraph. As for her detailed certifications, refer to this file.--Harout72 (talk) 15:20, 5 April 2020 (UTC)

Just did, after removing songs including 4 or more artists, that brings us to more than 100 million units sold and not the 79 million ones you refer to. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Onikaflow (talk • contribs) 20:43, 5 April 2020 (UTC)
 * Don't shoot back without going over the file I provided for you. It does not bring us to more than 100 million. Look at the file in detail, and let me know which certifications are missing for the songs that include not more than three artists. If you respond with another impatient comment, don't expect me to continue this discussion.--Harout72 (talk) 21:16, 5 April 2020 (UTC)

I put in green what was only updated and in red what was added. Also added at the end the markets you either forgot or excluded i don't know. Here is the file, thank you. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Onikaflow (talk • contribs) 18:33, 9 April 2020 (UTC)
 * Good work, thanks for stepping in and putting effort and time into it. First let me provide you with my renewed file here so you can look at it. The certifications that have been left out, do not qualify per our list's requirements, including those RIAA certifications that Minaj's participation is on Remix versions, but RIAA's certs aren't. The song "Tapout" has more than three artists involved. "The song "Idol" involves Minaj on an alternative version. Germany's cert for "Girl on Fire" doesn't mention anything about inferno version.--Harout72 (talk) 00:06, 10 April 2020 (UTC)

I'd like to ask why these remixes don't make the cut knowing their successes depended on minaj's participation, she is on the only available music video, credited on billboard, credited on some countries certifications (like New Zealand's). Also would notice you that RIAA don't credit all artists on their site despite the fact that these artists are co-leading the song (Nicki Minaj with Tusa or Fefe). Onikaflow (talk) 01:32, 10 April 2020 (UTC)
 * If it's specifically the Remix version RIAA issues the certifications for, then immaterially next to the title of the song it's indicated like for all these. In the case of the songs (the remixes) you have added on the file, those certifications issued by the RIAA are for all versions available. The Danish certifications you've added are for Streaming not downloads. IFPI Denmark combined Streaming and Downloads effective November 17, 2014. Only the certifications for downloads should be added before that point. Also, for Sweden, you have Platinum for "Where Them Girls At", but the song seems to have only gold on the last week on charts. For Mexico, you have 2x Plat. for "Turn Me On", I'm seeing only Plat.--Harout72 (talk) 03:53, 10 April 2020 (UTC)

Shakira Norway Certifications
Please add Shakira's "Can't Remember to Forget You" (feat Rihanna) to Norwegian Certified Sales list. It's certified 5 times platinum and is excluded. http://www.ifpi.no/component/rstrophybridge/ --Petertshomela (talk) 18:03, 10 April 2020 (UTC)
 * Norwegian certifications are currently left out for all artists on the list as it's unclear what the certification-levels for singles were before July 2002. Until we get this information, Norwegian certs will not be included.--Harout72 (talk) 19:30, 10 April 2020 (UTC)
 * hello question, how many certified units does she need for a 80M sales claim? Cornerstonepicker (talk) 22:28, 10 April 2020 (UTC)
 * The 80 million could be considered when she's above 60 million with her certified sales. In other words, when her certified sales get much closer to her currently listed claimed figure, the 80 million can replace the former, as it is explained in the Definitions.--Harout72 (talk) 00:03, 11 April 2020 (UTC)
 * I see. thanks. Cornerstonepicker (talk) 00:10, 11 April 2020 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 11 April 2020
Pink Floyd are missing from the over 250 mil photo gallery despite being in the list! Can you add then please? 2A00:23C7:2800:2F00:B8FB:A64C:B0D1:D632 (talk) 20:29, 11 April 2020 (UTC)
 * We only include seven pics for each section, photos of highest certified artists.--Harout72 (talk) 22:16, 11 April 2020 (UTC)

ABBA
The edit header warns to not use "highly inflated" figures even if it meets the technical 20% threshold. However, for ABBA, media outlets regularly use the 300+ million figure. Besides the sources currently provided, I've not seen reliable media outlets use numbers as low as 100-150 million. Curious to hear what others think about this. The alliance (talk) 02:09, 12 April 2020 (UTC)

Lady Gaga sales update
The US certified units of Lady Gaga are not accurate, they are at 101.5M units according to the certifications listed in RIAA database, not 91.5M units. 84.57.117.233 (talk) 02:42, 18 April 2020 (UTC)

Shakira's Underneath Your Clothes
Underneath Your Clothes by Shakira has now been certified Gold in the United Kingdom. https://www.bpi.co.uk/award/11437-1091-1 --Petertshomela (talk) 20:27, 18 April 2020 (UTC)
 * Checking the history of the main page could help.--Harout72 (talk) 21:28, 18 April 2020 (UTC)

Lady Gaga
Harout. I've seen that her certified sales has been reach 142m. Is it the right time to raise her with 149m claim? Thanks Politsi (talk) 09:02, 20 April 2020 (UTC)
 * Let's use that 149 million when she reaches the 150 million mark with her certified sales. All of her past few years of certs on singles are streaming generated.--Harout72 (talk) 12:55, 20 April 2020 (UTC)

Ricky Martin
Hi Harout, but many other artists in the list have less certified units than Ricky Martin, why can't he be included on this list? While Latin Grammys has declared his sales as over 95 millions; Barry White, The Who, Beach Boys & Donna Summer have less certified units than Ricky Martin, but included in the list for 100m sales. I don't understand what is the problem with Ricky. Their labels hadn't updated their certifications and Ricky Martin is the same... And well honestly it took me "a lot of time and difficulty" to find and collect his certifications data, I'd be thankful if you let me add him to the list. آرمین هویدایی (talk) 16:00, 22 April 2020 (UTC)
 * Did you go over the Definitions on the main page? It clearly explains of all the requirements for certified sales amount based on the year artists have begun charting. Your source incorrectly speaks of album sales only, not records sales (albums, singles, videos). In any case, Ricky Martin needs to have his claimed figures supported by 67% certified sales as he's begun charting on official singles/albums charts in 1995, that is 63.6 million certified units required for 95 million claim. His available certified sales are only 30.3 million. Even for 75 million claim, Ricky Martin would need 50.2 million certified units. In other words, his available certified sales are so low that he would not be able to qualify with 75 million. For his detailed certified sales refer to this file. Your posted certified sales while close, were off for many markets.--Harout72 (talk) 16:15, 22 April 2020 (UTC)

Oasis
I think Oasis with more than 41 milion units sold is still missing here and they should be somewhere at bottom on this list don't you think? BittersweetBen (talk) 00:14, 23 April 2020 (UTC)

Michael Buble
Harout, is it possible to include him on the list with 75m records? https://news.sky.com/story/michael-buble-to-retire-from-music-following-sons-battle-with-cancer-11525641 need your help. Thanks Politsi (talk) 02:49, 25 April 2020 (UTC)
 * I'm gonna have to take a look at his certified sales, at least I need to go over the key markets. I'll let you know where he stands in a few days.--Harout72 (talk) 14:37, 25 April 2020 (UTC)
 * So I finished going over Buble's certified sales, his available certified sales are only 37.6 million, but he'd need to have 53.9 million certified units (71.9%) for 75 million claim to get on the list. As it stands right now, I'm not seeing Buble getting on this list in the near future.--Harout72 (talk) 13:51, 26 April 2020 (UTC)
 * Thank you for your help. Politsi (talk) 02:45, 27 April 2020 (UTC)

New Zealand certifications
Hello, is there any chance to see album and single certifications in New Zealand. Currently, i can only see certifications from Chartnztop40.co.nz. How can i see older and non-charted album and single certifications?

Thank you Esambuu (talk) 05:36, 30 April 2020 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 8 May 2020
Why is not Nana Mouskori on this list a all??? 213.161.248.106 (talk) 11:07, 8 May 2020 (UTC)
 * She lacks the required amount of certified sales.--Harout72 (talk) 12:59, 8 May 2020 (UTC)

Alan Jackson
Harout, I think Alan Jackson is deserved to be on the list. If 80m is too much for him, I think 75m is okay. This is the source https://www.ky3.com/content/news/Country-star-Alan-Jackson-announces-concert-stop-in-Springfield-Mo--565699811.html from KYTV (TV). He has more than 45m in certified sales, and his career begin since 1987. We should add him with 75m claim. Need your help. Thanks Politsi (talk) 03:53, 11 May 2020 (UTC)
 * He's actually begun charting on the US album chart in 1990, so he's required to have his claims supported by 64% certified sales. That's 48 million certified units required for 75 million claim, but he's got only 47.2 million. We should also bare in mind that Alan Jackson has never gained much success outside of the US. He doesn't have a single certification coming from the UK, just some from Australia and very small amount from Canada. So even if in the future he meets his required certified sales amount, we should only add him to the list with 75 million claim when he's well over 60 million with the certified units.--Harout72 (talk) 13:30, 11 May 2020 (UTC)
 * Okay. Thanks. Well in that case, is it needed if we remove Reba McEntire from the list? her certified sales only around 42m, 41m from U.S and 800.000 from Canada. I agree if it makes this list more reliable.Politsi (talk) 02:55, 12 May 2020 (UTC)
 * Yup, to be consistent we can remove her. Clearly she could not have sold 75 million records, when her certified sales are under 43 million and she's never experienced success outside the US.--Harout72 (talk) 04:16, 12 May 2020 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 12 May 2020
Please can you update Lady GaGa's total sales. The source used is almost 5 years old. Her record sales have now surpassed over 330 million EAS. The system used to calculate the best selling artists also needs updating to include SPS and EAS. 'Shallow' alone has sold over 10 million standard copies and almost 23.5 million single units. Please update accordingly.

In sources, I have found her estimated STANDARD record sales are 200 million. Her EAS sales are 330 million.

Thanks. 2A02:C7F:9E4E:CD00:5C96:7FCF:AFF5:92FD (talk) 18:20, 12 May 2020 (UTC)
 * You might want to read the Definitions on the main page.--Harout72 (talk) 18:57, 12 May 2020 (UTC)

Unreliable source
This website is unreliable, doesn't meet the standard news organizations and highly regarded music industry related organizations.

Cornerstonepicker (talk) 05:31, 12 May 2020 (UTC)
 * Do you have a better reliable source? we will welcome if you have a better one. Minaj already has more than 122m in her certified sales. Clearly 100m claim is reliable for her. RJR News is still quite reliable ONLY for temporary, we will replace that source immediately if a better cource come. Meanwhile, let use that source and still put 100m claim in Minaj's Wikibio. Politsi (talk) 09:29, 12 May 2020 (UTC)


 * RJR News seems "obscure" at least for music sales industry. Despite being a Minaj's fan, "temporary reference" to be quite honest, it's like making a primary source. Maybe we can perfectly wait, even if she meets criteria since only 20 million of her 122M certified units are outside USA. Today an important portion of USA certifications in most artists are streamings. We can see more examples of artists like Taylor Swift, with 212 million certified units worlwide, but 181M as of today are USA sales and many of her albums are "over-certified", e.g Fearless with Diamond status vs 7 million units. She looks like almost a "Garth Brooks example", with exceptions of UK, CAN and AUS markets but highly low in the rest of the world, at least in certifications. --Apoxyomenus (talk) 16:51, 12 May 2020 (UTC)
 * Large portion of Gold/Platinum certifications are streaming generated in many markets not just in the States, with an exception of the Japanese market (where 70% of the music sales are based on physical). RJR News is ok for temporary use, but we can also place Nicki Minaj back in the section of 80 - 99 million, where her 85 million sales claim was supported by The Guardian (Nigeria). Anyways, Minaj's actual sales can't possibly be more than 85 million (singles/albums combined).--Harout72 (talk) 17:20, 12 May 2020 (UTC)
 * Agree with that change. Yes, I mean "streaming" sales/certifications in the level of United States, the big market that isn't compared to Danish or Spanish e.g. --Apoxyomenus (talk) 17:26, 12 May 2020 (UTC)

Okay then, I support decision for Minaj back again to 80m list. Politsi (talk) 03:16, 13 May 2020 (UTC)

Update of Lady GaGa sales from 124 million to 170 million
Hi guys. As I am unable to edit myself. Can I please make a request to update GaGa's sales? The certified unites stand at 140 million yet the claimed sales which are where she sits in the table are at only 124 million? Surely it should be 140 million?

That aside, the source for certified total sales is almost 10 years old (2011), and the claimed sales 5 years old (2015).

With the Star Is Born era, her sales have increased dramatically. Also, why the success of Joanne was less impactful, sales from Joanne era total almost 5 million in the US alone. The Star Is Born cycle has included 10.2 million worldwide singles sales of Shallow as stated by the IFPI - https://www.ifpi.org/bestsellers-and-global-artist.php

The Star Is Born album has also sold over 4 million units in the US alone. This figure is 6 million worldwide according to Billboard - https://www.billboard.com/articles/news/8517526/a-star-is-born-soundtrack-certified-double-platinum-us

However, this figure has recently changed. RIAA has recently (March 27th, 2020) released an update of her certified sales. Please see here - https://www.riaa.com/gold-platinum/?tab_active=default-award&se=lady+gaga#search_section.

These include an increase of: The Fame (album) - 3 million units Born This Way (album) - 2 million units Applause (single) - 1 million units Just Dance (single) - 1 million units The Fame Monster (album) - 4 million units Million Reasons (single) - 2 million units

That is an increase of 13 million units in the US ALONE. Including the 6 million units sold of The Star Is Born soundtrack and 10.2 copies of 'Shallow', that increases GaGa's sales by a minimum of 30 million. Therefore totalling AT LEAST 170 million. This, of course, is not including updates from various other worldwide sales sources since 2011 and 2015 respectively. For side note, the RIAA records were also updated in Feb 2016, Oct 2017, Feb 2018 and again in July 2019. All of which are post the two sources used for her claimed and certified sales. These figures are (not including the March singles above) an increase of another 10 million at least. But there is fine-tuning to be done in terms of updating her figures worldwide. They are probably now in excess of 180 million.

Side edit - having just checked both the BPI and ARIA on GaGa sales updates, in 2020, she has had an increase of another 3 million sales between the two countries. (Of course, this includes the Star Is Born WW sales above, but also includes recent hits such as Stupid Love. My point stands that there is likely to be a mammoth increase possible hitting the 180 - 190 million mark.

Thanks. JediRapture (talk) 09:07, 13 May 2020 (UTC)
 * Have you gone over the "Definitions" on the main page? It provides quite a bit of explanation as to why newer artists can have higher certified sales than their claims are. As for Lady Gaga's detailed certified sales, refer to this file.--Harout72 (talk) 15:18, 13 May 2020 (UTC)

Thanks - that document proves incredibly useful and is clearly up to date. I understand the point about certified sales and claimed sales, however with artists like Drake having almost 150 million discrepancy it is a little insane!

It may be worth noting, that in 'Definitions' it claims that articles are far more reliable than inflated certified sales. On GaGa's Spotify bio (presumably neutral, non-biased, and reliable) the claims of her sales are 30 million albums and 150 million singles. Totaling 180 million. Perhaps something to investigate. Thanks again for your input. Although without being fickle, I would definitely argue without question that her WW sales are far above 124 million! — Preceding unsigned comment added by JediRapture (talk • contribs) 16:47, 13 May 2020 (UTC)
 * Drake's music is largely streamed and not purchased. And as you already know Gold/Platinum programs all across the globe count streaming towards certification awards. Therefore, it should not surprise readers/editors that his certified sales are more than twice his claimed figure. As for Lady Gaga, I would not believe those inflated figures tossed about by her record company for promotional purposes. While only 25% of Lady Gaga's certified sales are streaming generated, the available certified sales amount combined for all the markets, do not suggest her actual sales to be higher than 120 million units maximum (albums/singles/videos combined).--Harout72 (talk) 17:30, 13 May 2020 (UTC)

Nicky Minaj (100 million units?)
Harout. Please look at this source https://www.abc15.com/entertainment/nicki-minaj-announces-shes-retiring-from-music from KNXV-TV. Inside it's said that she has sold 100 million units. Is this source usable to bring her back to 100m list?. Thanks. Politsi (talk) 04:52, 13 May 2020 (UTC)
 * That's not a bad source, but the part that says "to sell 100 million units across her albums, singles and features as certified by the Recording Industry Association of America" makes it unclear whether or not the source speaks of the US sales only based on RIAA certifications. What do others think?--Harout72 (talk) 05:47, 13 May 2020 (UTC)
 * I think it's okay since the source mention all of her records (albums, singles, and features) sold 100 million units and it doesn't stated only sell around U.S and of course KNXV-TV is a reliable source. If there is no complaining within a day. I will bring Minaj back to 100m list. Politsi (talk) 06:08, 13 May 2020 (UTC)
 * I wouldn't be comfortable with this addition without more support from other reputable sources.-- Peter Griffin  &bull;  Talk2Me   14:49, 13 May 2020 (UTC)
 * Source is clearly talking about her RIAA certified units. Cornerstonepicker (talk) 20:20, 13 May 2020 (UTC)

I will put this source on Minaj's wikibio and let's see. If there is no new source with more reliable sales claim for her and her certified sales already pass 130m. I will use this source to bring her back to 100m list. Politsi (talk) 01:52, 14 May 2020 (UTC)
 * That would just make minor websites use the 100M sales as a fact.. Like it was said, there's no need for temporary refs when we can wait. Cornerstonepicker (talk) 03:01, 14 May 2020 (UTC)
 * No need to wait. I will put her at 100 million list by using this source https://www.timeslive.co.za/tshisa-live/tshisa-live/2019-09-06-nicki-minaj-quits-the-rap-game-ive-decided-to-retire-have-my-family/ from The Times (South Africa). Politsi (talk) 03:29, 14 May 2020 (UTC)
 * Why come to the talk page if your intention is to do what you want anyway? We already have a majority opinion here. Wait or be reverted, here or her bio page.-- Peter Griffin  &bull;  Talk2Me   16:24, 14 May 2020 (UTC)
 * Why was this edit reverted? Politsi is right, that is a reliable source. The source that was being discussed above has nothing to do with his recently edited source.--Harout72 (talk) 18:21, 14 May 2020 (UTC)
 * I agree with your statement on "Unreliable source" section that her actual sales can't possibly be more than 85 million (singles/albums combined). Bc 122M w/ streaming to 100M sales? Cornerstonepicker (talk) 20:33, 14 May 2020 (UTC)

I didn't see the new source he provided, kind of stopped at the "no need to wait". This is fine.-- Peter Griffin  &bull;  Talk2Me   20:59, 14 May 2020 (UTC)
 * Despite original "discussion" was about reliability of "RJR News", I think edit reverted by PeterGriffin9901 (the first) could be accepted, at least for me. Yes, I know we have definitions/criteria for this list and certainly we use "common sense" in artists like Drake by itself. And also, I understand we should avoid compare an artist with another, because there are many factoid. But newer best-selling artists have in common many certifications generated by streams. With all of these new artists (Minaj, Swift etc) we need to "reinforce" that treatment again: that's means also avoid as possible questionable "temporary references" like RJR News, when only generates cyclic information taken probably from us, Wikipedia. --Apoxyomenus (talk) 21:10, 14 May 2020 (UTC)
 * I agree that the certified sales of newer artists' should always be at least some 20% higher than their listed claimed figures. Minaj's certified sales are way above her claimed sales, also her certified sales are growing each week. As for Drake, yes, his certified sales and many other newer artists' certifications are undoubtedly aggressively streaming generated, but if we come across a reliable source for Drake that states 200 million in sales, we should move forward with replacing our current one (150 million) with that. We should also bare in mind that we don't have the actual sales available for each certified album and single, whether in the States or elsewhere. So it'd be unreasonable to argue where exactly their actual sales truly stand, when their certified sales are already 20% and in some cases 40% higher. We can't disregard the fact that Digital and Physical sales are still existent either.--Harout72 (talk) 00:39, 15 May 2020 (UTC)

Tupac
Tupac Hosin bahmani (talk) 11:39, 25 May 2020 (UTC)

A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for speedy deletion
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for speedy deletion: You can see the reason for deletion at the file description page linked above. —Community Tech bot (talk) 03:52, 29 May 2020 (UTC)
 * Red Hot Slane.jpg

Flo Rida
Harout, I have a source for 100m-claim of Flo Rida. He has 82m in certified sales, is it now the right time for him to be in the 100m club? Thanks. Politsi (talk) 05:06, 1 June 2020 (UTC)
 * Let's wait and use that 100 million for Flo Rida when he's at 100 million with his certified sales. All his recent few years of certifications are streaming generated.--Harout72 (talk) 13:08, 1 June 2020 (UTC)

Coldplay
Hello Harout, i'm requesting Coldplay's certification file from you. Thank you. Esambuu (talk) 12:11, 28 May 2020 (UTC)
 * Here you are.--Harout72 (talk) 13:53, 28 May 2020 (UTC)
 * Thanks, i found few difference on some totals.
 * 1) Italy, total singles should be 2,245,000
 * 2) UK, total singles should be 16,600,000. But i wondering why there is 2 "Princess of China" certifications exist?
 * 3) In Norway, you missed Mylo Xyloto's platinum certification. Link : https://ifpi.no/trofe/trofeoversikt/?aar=&searchterm=coldplay


 * And i have few questions


 * 1) In Poland, foreign artists platinum certifications level is 20,000 according to this link http://bestsellery.zpav.pl/wyroznienia/regulamin.php I think Coldplay's A Head Full of Dreams should be 60,000 units.
 * 2) Why Coldplay's US gold certifications are all 100,000? Esambuu (talk) 02:50, 1 June 2020 (UTC)
 * Don't worry about Norway for right now, Norway is being left out for all artists. I'm still trying to get their certification-levels for all periods. As for UK, "Princess of China" has two release dates on two different Parent record companies, 2012 (EMI) for the one that has only reached Gold status and 2011 (Warner)for the one that has reached the Platinum status. Although, right now when you click on the title of the track, it's only showing the Warner release 2011, but you can see that both release dates still come up. The US digital certification-levels before Sep. 9, 2006 were Gold=100,000, Platinum=200,000. When those singles are re-certified Platinum, the RIAA will apply the newer certification-levels.--Harout72 (talk) 13:43, 1 June 2020 (UTC)

Why 20% for pre-1975 artists?
It looks very lower to pre-1975. There are lots of artists reaching near 50% or more than a half of their claimed sales, supported by certified units.

e.g.) Bob Seger, Barry Manilow, Bob Marley, Journey, The Doors, The Carpenters, Bob Dylan, Simon & Garfunkel, Neil Diamond, Barbra Streisand, Bee Gees, Fleetwood Mac, Rod Stewart, Billy Joel, Aerosmith, Bruce Springsteen...

Those are quite contrary to some artists.

e.g.) Barry White, The Who, Donna Summer, The Beach Boys, Linda Ronstadt, Frank Sinatra.

The latter is much smaller than the former.

As the music market indicates, it is definitely above 20% in US, UK, Germany, France, Canada and Finland. We could take aside from several countries or from Year 1975 because their sales highly relied on nothing but US — one more, UK — at that time. But even only two countries, US and UK take higher than 25%.

Do we need to leave or remove those quite lower than others? Then, what is the reason of 20%?

Asgreat1234 (talk) 07:38, 29 May 2020 (UTC)
 * Your question is quite unclear, it seems google translated. The US music market generates approximately 20% of all the music sales on the global level, some years it generates more sales percentage wise, but it's almost always below 25%. No other music market other than the US has had a certification system in 1950s and 1960s, that is the reason why we keep the requirements for early beginners at 20%. Some artists on the list that have begun early have not been active after 1975 and/or 1980. Yes, some of their earlier recordings have sold for decades, but it's also not fair to require more than 20 or 25% certified sales for those that have not been active after those aforementioned years.--Harout72 (talk) 13:13, 29 May 2020 (UTC)

Actually, I don't believe Google and other translaters because they occasionally show me inappropriately, so written only by my one. But I am very glad of you to point what I have wanted to ask quite perfectly.

that have begun early have not been active after 1975 and/or 1980

that have not been active after those aforementioned years

These are definitely plausible and understandable. And I think The Beatles, Elvis Presley, Led Zeppelin, ABBA, The Carpenters, Bob Marley and others are also examples about 'not been active'. Thanks for answer. Asgreat1234 (talk) 00:55, 8 June 2020 (UTC)

Lady Gaga
I wanted to resolve the issue of Lady Gaga's record sales. The article currently states that she sold 124 million records based on a source from 2014. In 2016, Billboard stated that she sold 146 million singles and more than 27 million albums (173 million records overall). Shouldn't this be updated? ArturSik (talk) 15:02, 12 June 2020 (UTC)
 * If Lady Gaga's current worldwide available certified sales stand at 143 million and all her recent few years of certifications on her singles are streaming generated, how could she have sold 173 million records? Have at least 100 million in sales on her albums/singles/videos gone uncertified? Because as it stands right now, based on her available certified sales, her actual sales should be between 100-120 million.--Harout72 (talk) 16:11, 12 June 2020 (UTC)
 * Fair enough. Just wanted to clear this up. ArturSik (talk) 16:27, 12 June 2020 (UTC)

Drake
Why is the certified units figure for Drake so high? The RIAA website says something like 25 million, but the figure listed would make Drake the most popular artist on the list. If this is true, he should probably be moved to the top. PiGuy3 (talk) 16:30, 11 June 2020 (UTC)
 * Did you click on the tab for Digital singles, it puts Drake as the top certified artists for Digital singles. And that doesn't even include his work on singles that he's been featured on. As for Drake's detailed certified sales, see this file.--Harout72 (talk) 04:34, 12 June 2020 (UTC)
 * I see now, sorry about that. PiGuy3 (talk) 08:36, 17 June 2020 (UTC)

Drake
Harout. Drake now has 320m in certified units, therefore I raised his claim to 170m. When we can put him into 200m club? I will find that source. Thanks Politsi (talk) 02:17, 13 June 2020 (UTC)
 * Yup, no problem. That guy's certified sales are growing at a very fast rate. I'm guessing his actual sales should be somewhere between 120-150 million by now. So, once there is a 200 million claim for Drake, let's discuss here first. If his certified sales have reached 350-400 by then, we can proceed. otherwise it'll be wise to wait a little.--Harout72 (talk) 14:06, 13 June 2020 (UTC)

This might be a dumb question, but why are the claimed sales less than the certified sales? PiGuy3 (talk) 08:36, 17 June 2020 (UTC)

Black Sabbath in the 75-80 million range
Black Sabbath, since 1970, has sold 75-80 million records worldwide with an RIAA-certified 15 million records in the US alone. Therefore they also must be added to the list in the relevant tier.

Source:

https://chartmasters.org/2020/03/black-sabbath-albums-and-songs-sales/

"All of it adds up to 77,895,000 equivalent album sales to date for Black Sabbath."
 * Your source is unreliable per this discussion. SolarFlashDiscussion 14:56, 17 June 2020 (UTC)

Billie Eilish 86.4.228.40 (talk) 23:20, 17 June 2020 (UTC)
86.4.228.40 (talk) 23:20, 17 June 2020 (UTC) I was wondering if Billie Eilish is eligible to be added onto the 75-79 million best selling list, her recent certification86.4.228.40 (talk) 23:20, 17 June 2020 (UTC) have passed 44 million in the us, and by now adding all the other ones from uk and elsewhere she must be at least be allowed onto the list, if not then my bad.

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 19 June 2020
Update the Police's Australian certified sales 407,000 to 442,000 since the Police's album "Best of Sting and The Police went gold in 1997 for the sales of 35 000. And update The Police's US certified sales from from 23.6 million to 24.6 million since the Police's " The Police Live" album went Platinum for sales of 1,000,000 in 2001. Lovegwd8 (talk) 03:29, 19 June 2020 (UTC)
 * Just a note that this editor is under investigation as a possible sock of this sockmaster - Long-term abuse/Nikita. Hzh (talk) 12:52, 19 June 2020 (UTC)


 * Red information icon with gradient background.svg Not done: This request is Original research: Do not combine material from multiple sources to reach or imply a conclusion not explicitly stated by any of the sources. The implied totals are only reached by adding the previous totals to these figures. Eggishorn (talk) (contrib) 19:06, 19 June 2020 (UTC)

Britney Spears
Billboard recently updated Spears' sales, stating that she has sold nearly 150 million albums worldwide. Thus, I believe should be updated here as well.

Source:

https://www.billboard.com/music/britney-spears — Preceding unsigned comment added by Alienatedney (talk • contribs) 02:13, 24 June 2020 (UTC)

Usher's total figures update
I've been notified that a discussion on the talk page should be held before changes can occur here. As such, I am making a suggestion that Usher's total sales figure should be updated to 100 million, with the new figure being quoted in this [article]. Any thoughts? -  Et 3  rnal 
 * This list does not use such sources that you have, it largely relies on articles coming from prestigious news outlets. Also, Usher must have 66.4 million certified units at the least for us to list him with the 100 million claim. You need to go over the Definitions on the main page, which will give you clear explanation as to how this list operates.--Harout72 (talk) 19:29, 27 June 2020 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 5 July 2020
The Police's song Every Breath You Take has been certified Platinum in the UK for the sales of 600,000 since 6/28/2019 and no has added it to the Police's certified UK sales, i have checked the edit logs from the week in June when it was certified and no one added it. Could you change the Police's UK sales from 8.760 million to 8.960 million 2600:1700:4400:7560:8002:9AE:3CAA:443E (talk) 03:48, 5 July 2020 (UTC)


 * I added it. It seems BPI has posted some of that week's certs retroactively, because some had been updated and some hadn't. I couldn't have possibly missed five certs including the one you mentioned.--Harout72 (talk) 06:43, 5 July 2020 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 9 July 2020
Change the Police's UK certification from 8.960 million to 10.160 million as no ever added the 4x platinum certification that "The Very Best of Sting and the Police" got in 2013 for sales of 1,200,000 2600:1700:4400:7560:B435:C470:D897:2E07 (talk) 03:08, 9 July 2020 (UTC)


 * What makes you think it's not included? Here is the detailed certified file for The Police.--Harout72 (talk) 13:10, 9 July 2020 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 9 July 2020
change the Police's Netherlands certification from 250,000 to 350,000 as no one ever added 2 greatest albums that both went Gold in 1988 and 1994 for the sales of 50,000 each 2600:1700:4400:7560:19F8:B52B:209B:FF50 (talk) 18:07, 9 July 2020 (UTC)

I added both. I'm not sure, however, how The Greatest Hits got certified Gold in the Netherlands in 1988, when it was released in 1992.--Harout72 (talk) 21:39, 9 July 2020 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 14 July 2020
No one ever added any of the Police's Swiss certified sales which are at 100,000 as 4 of their albums (Every Breath You Take, Greatest Hits, Their Greatest Hits and Very Best Of) have all gone Gold each for the sales of 25,000 each. 2600:1700:4400:7560:ED4B:5F93:1BF1:4AA4 (talk) 01:24, 14 July 2020 (UTC)


 * I Added them all.--Harout72 (talk) 02:51, 14 July 2020 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 14 July 2020
Update the Police's Australian units since no one added that the Best of Sting and the Police went Gold for the sales of 35,000 in 1997, also update the Police's Argentinian units since the Best of Sting and the Police went Platinum for sales of 60,000 2600:1700:4400:7560:ED4B:5F93:1BF1:4AA4 (talk) 03:35, 14 July 2020 (UTC)


 * Those are both included on the list. Be kind enough to look at this file again, it's the same file I provided for you the last time. Don't assume what's been added or not added without checking the file first.--Harout72 (talk) 03:43, 14 July 2020 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 14 July 2020
Add the Police's New Zealand certified units 6 of their albums went platinum (Regatta de Blanc, Zenyatta Mondatta , Ghost in The Machine Synchronicity , Every Breath You Take , Greatest Hits ) for the sales of 15,000 each while 2 went gold (Best of Sting and the Police , the Police ) for the sales of 7,500 each which totals to 105,000 all together. 2600:1700:4400:7560:ED4B:5F93:1BF1:4AA4 (talk) 05:28, 14 July 2020 (UTC)


 * I only had 82,500 units of certs on my file, which I'm sure you didn't look at again. I added the rest.--Harout72 (talk) 12:56, 14 July 2020 (UTC)

NM
It has come to my attention that the article Nicki Minaj discography included the certifications from four singles ("Dance A$$", "The Way Life Goes", "Girl on Fire" and "Down in the DM") when the RIAA does not credit her for her remixes. I want to ask if that US: 95.7 million total units include those. The same case with Music Canada. Cornerstonepicker (talk) 21:41, 21 July 2020 (UTC)
 * The certifications of remix versions can only be included, if the remix versions are certified. When an artist collaborates on a remix version but not on the standard version, the certification issued for the standard version naturally will not be included here. The certification for "Dance A$$" is included because the official single version seems to be a remixed/reworked version which includes Minaj. To see in detail what's been included on the list for Minaj, see this file.--Harout72 (talk) 21:55, 21 July 2020 (UTC)

Album vs Single
Instead of tallying both albums and singles as the same record sales, a new weighted formula should be used, for example, album sale == record sale, and single sale = 1/3 record sale. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2601:647:4401:6960:F455:242A:EC35:42FF (talk) 19:32, 26 July 2020 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 3 August 2020
Hi there. I'm absolutely out of my depth, here – I don't know code (or even how to edit Wikipedia reasonably). I'm only a music fan.

And as such, I'm *confounded* by this article claiming that Rihanna has sold "250 Million" "records" or more. There's just no way that can be the case, right?

Am I missing something here? ROC Nation says she's sold 60 million "albums," and "215 million digital tracks."

That's not the same thing, unless I'm *really* mistaken. Which I'm willing to admit is possible, if not even likely.

Thanks for your time,

–REO. Readyeyeopen (talk) 18:15, 3 August 2020 (UTC)
 * Digital sales for tracks are considered part of the entire records sales.--Harout72 (talk) 18:23, 3 August 2020 (UTC)

Michael Jackson 400 - 450 million records sold
Billboard has reported last year that according to Nielsen, since his death, Michael Jackson has managed to sell around 50 million singles and albums in the USA only. . According to IFPI, by the time of his death, Jackson had already sold around 350M records worldwide. This means that with USA sales only, 11 years after his death, he should already be at around 400M records. If we also include sales in the rest of the world, Jackson should be really close to the 450M mark. His sales would look close to this:

If Nielsen and billboard numbers are correct, it's impossible for Michael Jackson's sales to still be around 350M when he was around that already by the time of his death. Can you please update his numbers? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Bocadrew (talk • contribs) 09:13, 11 August 2020 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 20 August 2020
Rihanna's sales figures do not compare to that of Madonna's or the other artists in the top tier of your list. Calling them "units", you're equally comparing singles to albums. Per RIAA Madonna is certified at 64.5 million albums in the U.S. and Rihanna is certified at 22.5 albums in the U.S.

Also, you're stating that Rihanna sold 180 million singles then in the U.S. compared to Madonna's 21 million. Both of those figures need to be confirmed as well. Madonna has sold more than 21 million singles in the U.S. as she was NOT an albums artist.

Either way, comparing to a single that is about $1 to an album that is about $10 disproportionately elevates Rihanna's sales figures to those of The Beatles, Elvis Presley, Michael Jackson and Madonna.

Also tracking of albums to singles has changed throughout the years. Tabulating albums is more accurate as we have record of album sales going back much further than singles. If you include singles, it will disproportionately skew to newer artists as the introduction iTunes and other apps capture newer data that wasn't available back when major artists were selling millions of singles.

Even if the numbers aren't confirmed, at least compare the artists accurately with "albums" and "singles" specified. Otherwise "singles" artists will be elevated for selling about 1/10 the value of sales from other artists. 104.162.193.66 (talk) 14:29, 20 August 2020 (UTC)


 * The singles/videos as well as albums are considered part of the entire records sales. If a digital single costs $1.30 for one song in the US for example and a physical album costs $10 for 10 songs, then why are the sales of the singles less significant. The certified sales of all artists posted on the list are verifiable through the sources provided. For Rihanna's detailed certified sales refer to this document.--Harout72 (talk) 15:41, 20 August 2020 (UTC)

Bing Crosby
I believe that Bing Crosby should be un this list, he sold 1 billon worldwide, Crosby was very popular and famous on all the world. Sparcus97 (talk) 17:08, 20 August 2020 (UTC)

Billboard on Shakira's Sales
According to Billboard, Shakira has sold 80 million records. Petertshomela (talk) 13:14, 24 August 2020 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 5 September 2020
Someone forgot add 700,000 to the Police's French sales as the Police's Every Breath you Take album was certified 2x Platinum for the sales of 600,000 twice once in 1991 and once in 1992, it has been counted only once in the French sales. Also in 1991 Zenyatta Mondata was certified Gold again for the sales of 100,000 being previously certified Gold in 1981. So by adding 600,000 and 100,000 it equals to 700,000. Stewiedrummerboy (talk) 19:14, 5 September 2020 (UTC)


 * The double Platinum for compilation album Every Breath You Take: The Singles in Infodisc source is included in the total for 600,000 units. As for the two separate Gold awards for Zenyatta Mondata, once in 1981 and again in 1991 could be an anomaly which is frequently practiced by Infodisc. You can also see in that the same source lists the double Platinum for Every Breath You Take: The Singles twice, that doesn't mean it's been certified once in 1991 and again in 1992. For the detailed certified sales of The Police refer to this file.--Harout72 (talk) 21:24, 5 September 2020 (UTC)

Chartmasters puts MJ 2nd, Elvis 3rd
https://chartmasters.org/2020/05/cspc-mass-update-streaming/ Also, their numbers differ from the Wikipedia article – any thoughts on reliability?
 * I think it is time to put MJ above Elvis since there is plently of accurate calculations that confirm it (e.g. https://chartmasters.org/2020/05/cspc-mass-update-streaming/). Even if we look into the article right now, the certified sales quantity is bigger than the Elvis'. Certified sales are higher, so there would be no problem putting MJ above Elvis. However, Elvis has a claimed sales quantity of 600 million. In the case of Michael Jackson, there are estimations after his death of 1 billion records (https://thatgrapejuice.net/2012/01/michael-jackson-sells-1-billion-copies-worldwide/) and that place him above even The Beatles. I don't know if this is realistic or not, but there is a quantity that I have been seeing since before MJ's death, which taking into account the years that have passed, I think it is equal to or more realistic than the Elvis' 600 million sales claim. It is 750 million record sales.Salvabl (talk) 10:26, 10 September 2020 (UTC)
 * First off, do not make any such changes on the list as you did. As I mentioned in the edit summary, the exclusion of those idiotic, inflated figures have been thoroughly discussed here amongst editors in the past. Also, your chartmasters isn't a reliable source.--Harout72 (talk) 11:40, 10 September 2020 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 10 September 2020
You forgot to add 500,000 to the Police's US sales as the Very Best of Sting and the Police went Gold in 2005, it wasn't added to the certified sales of The Police file Stewiedrummerboy (talk) 18:24, 10 September 2020 (UTC)


 * I added it to my file, but the total for US on the list somehow had that figure included. So no need to make changes on the list.--Harout72 (talk) 18:56, 10 September 2020 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 10 September 2020
I checked the Police sales file and saw that no one added the Very Best of Sting & the Police gold certification, so could someone change the Police's Spain sales from 300,000 to 350,000 as the Very Best of Stong & the Police went gold Stewiedrummerboy (talk) 22:14, 10 September 2020 (UTC)


 * Could you point out where that's posted? Page? The year it's posted under?--Harout72 (talk) 22:52, 10 September 2020 (UTC)

Harout72 Hey sorry wrong file, this is the right one on page 964 — Preceding unsigned comment added by Stewiedrummerboy (talk • contribs) 00:27, 11 September 2020 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 11 September 2020
Can some please fix the Police's certified sales someone badly edit it and wiped half of the countries on the list, also it should be 40.8 million, instead of 40.7 million since the gold Spanish certification for the Very Best of Sting and the Police was added a couple hours ago and no one changed the total sales. Stewiedrummerboy (talk) 03:12, 11 September 2020 (UTC)


 * Spain's Gold added 50,000 units only, the grand total still is just under 40.8 million (40.795 million).--Harout72 (talk) 03:45, 11 September 2020 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 11 September 2020
You need to add 500,000 to the Police's UK units as the single De Do Do Do, De Da Da Da went Gold in 1981, the BPI website made an error by classifying it as an album instead of a single, there is no album by the Police called De Do Do Do, De Da Da Da. Stewiedrummerboy (talk) 23:56, 11 September 2020 (UTC)


 * Good catch.--Harout72 (talk) 01:32, 12 September 2020 (UTC)

Digital artists vs. pre-digital artists
Buying a major artist's new record was quite a task back in the 20th century. Long return bus trips, lots of bad weather, lots of queueing, lots of being told "sold out" and having to try elsewhere, where you'd also have to queue and possibly be told "sold out" (at which point you might despondently order by snail mail through a catalogue). Someone like Rihanna enjoyed her peak during an era where people could instantly acquire albums without moving anything other than a finger. Her "250 million sales" largely occurred on three-seater sofas through wireless devices, while Pink Floyd's mostly happened in bustling, sweaty, stressful Tower Record outlets, as people wrung the rain water from their jackets.

Is there a way we can differentiate more? Peaking in the vinyl age, and peaking in the piss-easy digital age, are two completely different beasts. 2A02:C7F:8F1A:F700:7062:1E00:16C3:79D3 (talk) 18:54, 11 September 2020 (UTC)


 * If you point to published analysis that matches your own then you'll have more leverage. Binksternet (talk) 19:36, 11 September 2020 (UTC)
 * Selling an album with $21.98 is not the same as selling a digital song with $1.29. This is what this list fails to showcase with the so-called "records" or "units". Artists like Rihanna and Drake are benefited with the double-counted certifications (song streams and track downloads are contributed to "album" certification as well as "single" certification), which is not the case for pre-digital artists ("single" was single, while "album" was album. Sales of "Can't Help Falling in Love" CD singles wasn't counted to Blue Hawaii certification). This page should be able to point out this somehow. Bluesatellite (talk) 21:49, 15 September 2020 (UTC)
 * Physical albums have never sold for $21.98 in the US, whether CDs, Cassettes or Vinyls. So I'm not sure where you're getting the $21.98. Those are the prices of Double-CD albums you're speaking of. In fact, CD albums have in most cases always cost much less than $15 whether now or in the past, take Lady Gaga's recent album for example, going for $12 on average. Whereas, each one of the 16 downloadable tracks sells for $1.29, making 9 separately bought tracks costing as much as the entire Physical album. Even if one bought the entire album in a digital format, it would still cost $11.50. Also, it should be noted that all newer, Digital era artists are listed with much higher certified sales than their claimed figures. Which isn't the case with older, Physical era artists, who are listed with certified sales that are at least 30% lower than their claimed figures. Your link for Mariah Carey's album is an out of print Vinyl which isn't fair to use as an argument.--Harout72 (talk) 22:24, 15 September 2020 (UTC)
 * Maybe my example was too random. But you get the point. An album is an album (whether physical or digital). But saying (as this page suggests) is just wrong. Buying one Chromatica CD is not the same as downloading "Rain on Me" (unless you download it ten times). If Gaga sold 1 million Chromatica, this page would say that she earned 1 million "records", but ironically she could sold 10 million "Rain on Me" and got 10 million "records" to her tally. See the anomaly? General readers who access this page would simply think Rihanna sold more than Mariah Carey, which is actually untrue since Mariah got way a lot more money from selling albums. I'm not saying List of best-selling singles is a good list (it's very very poor), but at least it separates the digital and physical era. Or we can separate artists based on "formats" they sold the most. Anything to reflect this unbalanced usage of "units" or "records" is welcomed, IMHO. Bluesatellite (talk) 23:45, 15 September 2020 (UTC)
 * Music enthusiasts didn't have the option in the past to purchase only the tracks they wanted on an album and leave the rest on the table. In other words, if they liked only three songs on an album, they would have to purchase an entire album. Now people can simply download any one of the songs they like, whether they're singles or just tracks. That said, there are lot of non-single tracks that get certified which aren't released as singles. And the availability/easy access that digital downloads provided is the reason why singles received higher certification levels than physical singles in the past, even before streaming was included in certifications. At the end of the day, units are units, records sales are records sales. Rihanna and all other newer artists are not lesser artists than Mariah Carey. And lets not forget that Mariah Carey's or others' albums/singles certifications in the past were based on shipments, not necessarily sales. So the 172 million certified units for Carey isn't really based on sales, it's based on shipped physical album/single/video units. Whereas, downloads immediately translate to purchased units, at least they did until the streaming.--Harout72 (talk) 00:22, 16 September 2020 (UTC)

Gloria Estefan 75 million claim
Gloria begun her career in the 1970s, and I found a claim she sold 75 million copies worldwide link. Last time she was included in the list she had already 35.4 million certified. Maybe is time to include her...--88marcus (talk) 20:26, 9 September 2020 (UTC)
 * There is no relatively newer source? That article is from 2005. She has 37.3 million certified sales and can be included on the list with 75 million claim.--Harout72 (talk) 21:29, 9 September 2020 (UTC)
 * Unfortunately not. I only found 70 million and 90 million or even more than that. I couldn't even found 80 million or 85 million. Maybe can help me with that.--88marcus (talk) 22:59, 9 September 2020 (UTC)
 * Same result. Since late 90's to late 2000's her sales were estimated in 70-75 million 1,2, 3, 4 or 5. Since then, English or non-English sources usually put her sales in 90, 100 or 120 million even. Maybe as other exceptional cases, Tampa Bay reference could be used as a "temporary source" if she meets requirements. Regards, --Apoxyomenus (talk) 22:16, 10 September 2020 (UTC)
 * Thank you. I agree.--88marcus (talk) 02:03, 11 September 2020 (UTC)
 * I added Estefan to the list with the article published by Tamba Bay Times. Let me know please once we have a newer reliable source, we'll replace it.--Harout72 (talk) 16:14, 12 September 2020 (UTC)
 * Ok, I will . Don't forget erase Gloria's name on that part of the article: "That is why Cliff Richard, Diana Ross, Scorpions, Bing Crosby, Gloria Estefan (...)"
 * Yup, got it.--Harout72 (talk) 16:44, 12 September 2020 (UTC)

Hey everyone here's a source with an 85 million claim. Didn't know if you were still looking for one but I thought I would share it in case it helps. FanDePopLatino (talk) 08:23, 19 September 2020 (UTC)
 * Thanks, but that one is older (it's from 2000!), what we needed was a recent 75 million claim but unfortunally we only found 90 million and 70 million. But Gloria is already in the list. :)--88marcus (talk) 22:13, 19 September 2020 (UTC)

So many sources: Madonna has sold 335 million records

 * https://www.theguardian.com/music/2020/sep/15/madonna-to-direct-and-co-write-her-own-biopic
 * https://www.reuters.com/article/film-madonna/update-1-madonna-to-direct-and-co-write-a-movie-about-her-life-and-music-idUKL1N2GC1OD
 * https://variety.com/2020/film/news/madonna-to-direct-her-biopic-co-written-by-diablo-cody-for-universal-1234770633/
 * https://ew.com/movies/madonna-directing-biopic-movie-universal/
 * https://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-8606291/Madonna-leaves-Interscope-Records-return-Warner-8-figure-deal.html
 * https://deadline.com/2020/09/madonna-biopic-movie-universal-pictures-diablo-cody-script-madonna-directing-amy-pascal-producing-1234576593/
 * https://www.guinnessworldrecords.com/world-records/best-selling-female-recording-artist

Can we update her sales? And we all know that Madonna has sold more than Elton John why does he come before Madonna in this list? Elton John's certificate sales seems like more than Madonna but we all know that Madonna has sold more than Elton John even Guinness World Records confirmed that. And Elton John's certificate sales are rise in nowadays his certificates increased beacuse of new system in certificate and streams. —Navyiconer (talk) 01:24, 23 September 2020 (UTC)
 * Why should we inflate Madonna's claimed figures anymore than they already are. Just because we have her listed with 300 million records, it doesn't mean she has actually sold that much, let alone 335 million. Her certified sales clearly do not suggest sales beyond 250-275 million. Elton John has begun charting 13 years earlier than Madonna, what makes you believe Madonna has sold more records than Elton John, especially when latter's certified sales are higher? Also, it's a good idea to go over the Definitions, specifically the part that says "The claimed figures are upgraded only when there is a significant progress in artists' certified units. In other words, the available certified units for each artist should get relatively closer to already listed claimed figure in order for higher figures to replace the listed ones".--Harout72 (talk) 02:21, 23 September 2020 (UTC)

Streaming artists
Hi! Ariana Grande sold nearly 60 million records in pure sales. She is better known as a streaming artist and has not been active in the digital age of music. Is there a way to add her to the list anyway? As I can see, it's also all about certifications. She has a wide variety of certifications worldwide, including over 60 million units certified in the US and over 10 million units in the UK. She would have sold at least 80 million records if we follow this criterion. The same applies to other artists of her time such as The Weeknd or Post Malone. Is there a chance? Mirrored7 (talk) 21:54, 30 September 2020 (UTC)
 * What's the source that claims her records sales? A side note, all newer artists whose certified sales are streaming generated, can enter the list if their certified sales are 20% higher than their claimed figures.--Harout72 (talk) 02:44, 1 October 2020 (UTC)