Talk:List of best-selling music artists/Archive 40

One Direction (80m records)
Harout. There is a source claimed this band sold 80m records. I will bring the source to the list. Is it possible for them to have sold 80m records? Thanks Politsi (talk) 23:05, 3 October 2020 (UTC)
 * I have to look at their US and UK certified sales to see if they could qualify.--Harout72 (talk) 00:36, 4 October 2020 (UTC)
 * Actually, their US certified sales are only some 25 million units, and their UK certified sales are some 11,200,000 units. I'm not gonna look at the other larger and medium sized markets as there is no way for them to have enough certified units to be on the list. In order for them to get on the list with 80 million claim, they'd have to have at least 61.7 million certified units as they have begun charting in 2011.--Harout72 (talk) 00:55, 4 October 2020 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 15 October 2020
Update the Police's Australian sales from 407,000 to 827,000 as the Police's album 1986 album Every Breath You Take went 6x Platinum for the sales of 420,000 Weberdexter666 (talk) 01:05, 15 October 2020 (UTC)


 * Where exactly are you seeing this? I can't find any certs for The Police on there.--Harout72 (talk) 01:38, 15 October 2020 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 15 October 2020 (2)
Update the Police's Australian sales from 407,000 to 827,000 as the Police's album 1986 album Every Breath You Take went 6x Platinum for the sales of 420,000 Weberdexter666 (talk) 02:13, 15 October 2020 (UTC)


 * ❌ Not sure if you are on the wrong Wikipedia article, but I cannot change 407,000 to 827,000 as the number 407,000 does not appear anywhere once here. GreenFrogsGoRibbit (talk) 07:16, 15 October 2020 (UTC)
 * There isn't any certification posted for The Police in 2006.--Harout72 (talk) 12:51, 15 October 2020 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 15 October 2020 (3)
Update the Police's Australian sales as their albums Outlandos D'amore went Gold for the sales of 35,000 and Regatta de Blanc went Platinum for the sales of 70,000 which as adds ups to 105,000 sales altogether, also update the Police's Belgian sales as Regatta also went Gold in Belgium for the sales of 25,000. Weberdexter666 (talk) 23:33, 15 October 2020 (UTC)


 * The certification-levels in Australia back in late 1970s and early 1980s were Gold=20,00, Platinum=50,000 units, as for Belgium, their earlier levels are unknown for that reason I can't add that.--Harout72 (talk) 00:16, 16 October 2020 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 20 October 2020
Modern Talking sold over 120 million records, Depeche Mode over 100 million records, Pet Shop Boys other 100 million records just to say few. All bands not even mentioned. I wonder how your "premium" and wise editors can miss those astronomical sums. so much for protected articles feature :-D 93.34.92.26 (talk) 11:28, 20 October 2020 (UTC)
 * None of those has enough certified sales to qualify for the list.--Harout72 (talk) 13:06, 20 October 2020 (UTC)

Tina Turner's first charted record
The year 1975 probably refers to her second solo album Acid Queen. But her first single in the charts—together with Ike—was A Fool In Love. The couple began hitting the charts in 1960 with "A Fool in Love," and notched charting singles throughout the '60s [...]. (allmusic.com) --FoolInLove (talk) 14:40, 20 October 2020 (UTC)
 * Yes, that's correct based on this. I have changed her first year on official charts to 1960.--Harout72 (talk) 15:12, 20 October 2020 (UTC)

Shania Twain
Harout. Now she has 79.8m in certified sales. Can I move her to 100m list now? Thanks Politsi (talk) 03:49, 21 October 2020 (UTC)
 * Let's do that once she's between 82-85 million with her certified sales.--Harout72 (talk) 14:14, 21 October 2020 (UTC)

Okay thanks. And by the way "Daily Mail" has Alicia Key's 75m claim since months ago... Politsi (talk) 15:33, 21 October 2020 (UTC)
 * Maybe we put Alicia Keys up on the list using that temporarily?--Harout72 (talk) 15:46, 21 October 2020 (UTC)
 * If Alicia has a very good certified sales. We should put her to the list immediately. I don't understand why Wikipedia took an extreme decision to banned Daily Mail. Yes, Daily Mail often makes sensationalist and inaccurate scare stories of science and medical research. But Daily Mail has won a number of awards, including receiving the National Newspaper of the Year award from The Press Awards eight times since 1995, winning again in 2019. It means Daily Mail wasn't that crap... here is the source

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-8708069/Alicia-Keys-beams-alongside-husband-Swizz-Beatz-two-sons.html lets used it only for temporarily. Thanks Politsi (talk) 03:12, 22 October 2020 (UTC)

Regarding Beyonce's US certification
Hello fellow Wikipedians, I was about to edit it but I thought it's worth discussing. I believe Beyonce's US certification is a little bit inflated. I've just calculated and it came 59.83m, I think the reason for this is that they've confused the "Video longform" certification with the "Album" or "Single" certification, because they're different criteria. So what you think about it? Moh8213 (talk) 00:18, 21 October 2020 (UTC)
 * See this file for Beyonce's detailed certified sales.--Harout72 (talk) 14:10, 21 October 2020 (UTC)

Okay u proved me wrong lol anyway, thank u for ur time. Moh8213 (talk) 15:57, 22 October 2020 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 22 October 2020
Moonlight Entm (talk) 16:20, 22 October 2020 (UTC) We have to enter a new artist and I'd love to edit it
 * Red question icon with gradient background.svg Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. Asartea   Trick  undefined  Treat  16:24, 22 October 2020 (UTC)

Alicia Keys
Harout. Several days ago, we failed to put Alicia Keys at the list because like I said, Daily Mail is banned to be used on wikipedia. But Keys already has nearly 75m in certified sales. Even 75m claim is too low for her. If a source directly come from Daily Mail is Banned. Then I think we could use this online news portal https://oltnews.com/alicia-keys-shines-alongside-husband-swizz-beatz-and-their-two-sons-2 oltnews.com is quite usable only for temporary. The source still came out from Daily Mail. But at least now, it's not using directly from Daily Mail website. What do you think? Thanks. Politsi (talk) 03:24, 25 October 2020 (UTC)
 * Actually, that one isn't any better. No rush, we'll put her back on the list when we have a better source.--Harout72 (talk) 06:55, 25 October 2020 (UTC)

Neil Young
Harout. I see that Young's U.S certified sales is quite impressive for a very old artists like him. Is it possible to put him to the list with 75m claim. There is no newspaper yet writing about his sales but Entertainment Tonight Canada from Global Television Network currently put his sales at 75 million / https://etcanada.com/photos/686186/after-the-gold-rush-at-50-12-things-you-didnt-know-about-neil-youngs-classic-album/#image-686244 the article is very good. It's not a newspaper but at least it's a part of news organization. I think we should put this legendary singer to the list by using that source if his certified sales able make him go inside. Thanks Politsi (talk) 04:20, 25 October 2020 (UTC)
 * That's not a good source honestly. But in any case, I don't have Neil Young's detailed certified sales. His US certified sales stand at 18.5 million, not very impressive.--Harout72 (talk) 06:58, 25 October 2020 (UTC)

Nana Mouskouri
Why is Nana Mouskouri not included in this list? It is claimed that she has sold 350 million albums https://www.neomagazine.com/2018/07/forever-young-with-nana-mouskouri-the-biggest-selling-female-artist-of-all-time/#:~:text=With%20over%20200%20albums%20released,female%20artist%20of%20all%20time. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2A02:C7F:A82A:EC00:2CA2:267E:CFC1:7AB9 (talk) 01:29, 26 October 2020 (UTC)

Beyonce
Harout, what do you think if I move her to 120m club with 120m sales? Thanks Politsi (talk) 11:44, 16 November 2020 (UTC)
 * Let's do that when she's around 105 million with her certified sales.--Harout72 (talk) 13:58, 16 November 2020 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 16 November 2020
Update the Police's Australian sales as their first 3 albums (Outlandos, Regatta and Zenyatta) all went Platinum for the sales of 50,000 each in 1981. Limpdudemandurst6 (talk) 17:50, 16 November 2020 (UTC)


 * Note that this is likely to be same person as the long-term abuser Long-term abuse/Nikita who adds fake certifications to a number of discographies. Hzh (talk) 18:35, 16 November 2020 (UTC)
 * Make sure that the cover of the book and the first pages of the description as well as all the credits including author's name are all scanned with the pages where the awards are listed. Make sure that all pages are scanned well so they can be legible, make it similar to this here which is done for Spanish certs. Otherwise, they cannot be added.--Harout72 (talk) 18:53, 16 November 2020 (UTC)

The Weeknd
Harout. Is it possible for this Canadian singer to be on the list with 75m claim? Because I see his digital certified in U.S only is high (nearly 75m). And if possible, until now the only source available to support his 75m records claim is come from Black Entertaintment Television (BET)/Via Com website and I think it is usable temporarily to use since BET is a part of Via Com. What do you think? Thanks. Politsi (talk) 20:46, 20 November 2020 (UTC)
 * Let me have a day or two to go over his certified sales. If his worldwide certified sales are close to 100 million, then we can use that source temporarily to put him on the list. His certifications are largely streaming generated, so the available certified sales should be well above the 75 million claim in order for us to consider him.--Harout72 (talk) 04:27, 21 November 2020 (UTC)
 * Okay Thanks. Here is the source https://www.bet.com/music/2020/11/19/soul-train-awards-2020-best-r-b-soul-male-artist.html BET is part of ViacomCBS Domestic Media Networks which is also run MTV and VH1. So it is reliable at least for while. Politsi (talk) 12:14, 21 November 2020 (UTC)

Miley Cyrus
Need your help also to check if Cyrus already able to enter the list with 77m claim. https://thenewdaily.com.au/entertainment/celebrity/2019/08/11/iam-hemsworth-and-miley-cyrus-announce-split/ Thanks. Politsi (talk) 12:16, 21 November 2020 (UTC)

Britney Spears
Billboard and Forbes have reported Spears has sold nearly 150 million albums worldwide; however, this page demonstrates she has sold 100 million.


 * This list requires certain amount of certified sales for all artists on the list based on the year they've begun charting, see the Definitions on the main page for detailed explanation. That said, since Spears has begun charting in 1998, her claimed figures are required to be supported by 68.8% certified sales. That is 103.2 million certified units required for a claim as high as 150 million. But as you can see her available worldwide certified sales are only 85.4 million. Therefore, we cannot use that figure. That's in fact an inflated claimed figure tossed about by her record company for promotional purposes.--Harout72 (talk) 01:29, 22 November 2020 (UTC)

Ariana Grande
Hello, I already opened a talk page about it, but it got deleted I guess? Is there any way she could get on that list too? I'm pretty sure her digital sales must be well over 60 million, and her certified sales are for sure by over 100 million worldwide, including streaming of course. With over 15 million units, she is one of the best-selling artists in the UK. She also has high certified sales in the US, Canada, Australia, Germany, Norway and Brazil. It seems strange to me because the number of certified sales worldwide, as well as the top tens and number ones, could be compared to many artists that are on the list. Would be cool if I could get an answer. Thanks. x Mirrored7 (talk) 03:50, 22 November 2020 (UTC)

Please find a reliable source to support Grande's sales with range at least 75m. That source must came from a news organization. Politsi (talk) 07:43, 22 November 2020 (UTC)
 * I'd go over her certified sales if there is reliable source claiming at least 75 million records.--Harout72 (talk) 14:27, 22 November 2020 (UTC)

Hm. She is more of a streaming artist, as you guys proMadonna claimed sales are over 335 millions according to Guinness World Record since at least 2015 editionbably know. It would be very hard to find some source, writing that she sold 75 million records. There's chart analysis website that claims that she sold nearly 50 million records in digital sales with her first three albums. The singles of her second album sold over 25 million records. But we know what happened with digital sales in the past years. However, Grande is the most streamed female on almost any streaming platform, and her certified units must be near 100 million, if not over. Soon she she's gonna have 20 top ten songs in UK, US, Australia, and Canada, and she's about to pass the Spice Girls and Rihanna for most number ones in UK. Shouldn't be that alone qualify her to be added on the list? Mirrored7 (talk) 15:19, 22 November 2020 (UTC)
 * No artist can be put up on the list without a claimed figure. First, we'd need a claimed figure coming from a reliable source and then the certified sales must be sufficient enough.--Harout72 (talk) 15:29, 22 November 2020 (UTC)

The figure must be 75 million or more? Sold or in units too? Mirrored7 (talk) 16:10, 22 November 2020 (UTC)
 * To get an idea, on the main page of the list, all artists in the 75 million section are listed with sources. See the sources in the column of Claimed Sales. You should also go over the Definition on the main page for detailed explanation as to how the list is operated.--Harout72 (talk) 16:19, 22 November 2020 (UTC)

The Weeknd to 100m list.
Harout. I just see that The Weeknd has 128m in certified sales. It means 75m that I've found for him is too low. I Will bring him to the 100m list with 100m claim. Thanks Politsi (talk) 14:30, 23 November 2020 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 30 November 2020
Update the Police's Australian sales as their 1980 album Zenyatta Mondatta was certified Platinum in 1981 for the sales of 50,000 Omegaman2233 (talk) 21:52, 30 November 2020 (UTC)


 * I added it.--Harout72 (talk) 23:01, 30 November 2020 (UTC)

Pharrell Williams
Harout. Please remind me if I already bring up this issue him. There are a lot of reliable souce saying that he has sold 100m records. The statement not refferring him sold that records as producers but as a singer. What do you think? Thanks. Politsi (talk) 06:39, 9 December 2020 (UTC)
 * I'd say it's one of the biggest nonsensical statements we've ever come across. Pharrell Williams has few singles and albums that have been certified.--Harout72 (talk) 06:43, 9 December 2020 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 14 December 2020
MODERN TALKING sold 120 million records, too. Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Modern_Talking#cite_note-SZ-7 Shohane (talk) 22:49, 14 December 2020 (UTC)
 * They don't have enough certified sales to qualify for this list.--Harout72 (talk) 23:32, 14 December 2020 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 9 January 2021
Simon & Garfunkel disbanded in 2010 and Van Halen disbanded in 2020. MarinStoykov (talk) 13:32, 9 January 2021 (UTC) I changed the disbandment year for Van Halen. As for Simon & Garfunkel, is there an actual source that they disbanded in 2010?--Harout72 (talk) 14:40, 9 January 2021 (UTC)

Mariah Carey
Mariah's total certified sales exceeded 175 million. What threshold she should claim to put her within the 220 million mark ? @fidelovkurt
 * Once she's at 185-190 million with her certified sales, we can use the 220 million claim.--Harout72 (talk) 13:55, 27 November 2020 (UTC)

Hello Harout72, since Mariah sales exceeded 182 million, I share with you some links claiming 220 million: https://eu.detroitnews.com/story/entertainment/2016/12/13/grapevine-lionel-richie-mariah-carey-hit-road/95357936/ https://www.nottinghampost.com/whats-on/music-nightlife/mariah-carey-announces-two-uk-421175 https://www.theguardian.com/music/musicblog/2014/may/22/mariah-carey-photoshop-album-cover-armour https://vegasnews.com/163570/mariah-carey-announces-return-to-the-colosseum-at-caesars-palace-in-december-2017-with-all-i-want-for-christmas-is-you.html https://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/global-icon-mariah-carey-announces-final-shows-of-1-to-infinity-her-first-two-year-las-vegas-residency-at-the-colosseum-at-caesars-palace-300329749.html https://www.standard.co.uk/showbiz/mariah-carey-poses-in-lingerie-for-terry-richardson-in-wonderland-9305890.html https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/article.mariah-carey-to-headline-in-baku-on-sunday.3L9mhnq904aGiQ8E6qOk4c.html https://www.bellevuereporter.com/business/singer-mariah-carey-makes-appearance-at-opening-of-bellevues-new-sugar-factory/ https://www.nzherald.co.nz/entertainment/tour-news-at-last-mariah-carey-heads-to-nz/PE5OHAM3VJGNE5ALADA7BHEHEM/ https://theboombox.com/mariah-carey-facts/ Alherpo (talk) 15:35, 11 January 2021 (UTC)
 * What is the most reliable source that claims 220 million records for Carey?--Harout72 (talk) 16:23, 11 January 2021 (UTC)

Garth Brooks
It shows his certifications are 165.1 million but counting, it's below (around 162 million). --Apoxyomenus (talk) 17:18, 11 January 2021 (UTC)
 * During the last update for Garth Brooks I had messed it up. It's correct now, his US certified sales are 158.4 million. Thanks for bringing it to my attention.--Harout72 (talk) 17:29, 11 January 2021 (UTC)

Argentina
Talking about MJ, I noticed in your file you didn't add the 500,000 certified units he got in Argentina for Thriller according to the official entity CAPIF. That's a different link from the regular database for Gold/Platinum but exists and it's from CAPIF itself. BTW, i've reviewed few countries in Madonna's case (not all yet) and there are some missing cert sales. I'll post them as soon as I can either to review/add them. --Apoxyomenus (talk) 20:37, 16 January 2021 (UTC)
 * @Apoxyomenus 500,000 certified units for Argentina? But the link you have provided doesn't state anything about the certifications for Thriller. Los premiados stands for "Winners". The tab for Diamond awards on there doesn't seem to function. As for missing certifications for Madonna, please discuss that in a new thread.--Harout72 (talk) 21:00, 16 January 2021 (UTC)
 * Sure, no problem it was just to point out briefly and i'll open the appropriate discuss once i'm available. Now, again with MJ and Thriller cert in Argentina, if you look there is two fields after/below "Premios Diamante" ("Diamond Awards") → (1) "El Premio" ("The award") in which talks about the requeriments. Later the final and second it's "Los Premiados" ("The Winners") and Thriller was included there as one of those albums with a Diamond status. Even with archived links the CAPIF database it's kinda complicated and the "Diamond awards" is even more. If so, I guess works listed there by Julio Iglesias, The Beatles and Queen needs to be updated. You can hear a second opinion —if we can call it in some way— to re-verify what i'm talking about. --Apoxyomenus (talk) 21:27, 16 January 2021 (UTC)
 * OK makes sense, Abbey Road was certified 3x Platinum in 1991 for 180,000 units, seems like later it reached the Diamond status. Luis Miguel's Romance, Aries and Segundo Romance were already Diamond on here. Ok I'll add them using the link you provided.--Harout72 (talk) 22:06, 16 January 2021 (UTC)

Madonna's missing certs
As I pointed out above, I've reviewed some countries (not all yet). But at this time, these are one of them:

As I said, I didn't verify all countries and in my understanding, I've used the same publishers (CAPIF, AMPROFON etc) whom have been used with any other artist. Regards, --Apoxyomenus (talk) 00:05, 17 January 2021 (UTC)
 * Germany: MDNA was added with Gold status but that album isn't certified there per BVMI. Unless, there is or was a special article/press release in their site or the album title it's misspelled or something. However, her German certifications always need to be updated because the song "American Pie" wasn't added and it's under her name with Gold status. Unless our system or i'm wrong, that means 250,000 certified copies for that work and her German certified units should stand at 12,550,000 now and not 12,400,000.
 * Denmark: There is two missed of her albums here: 5x Platinum for Ray of Light and the Platinum for The Immaculate Collection and this is the individual and specific link for both certifications. Unless our system it's wrong, as albums from 1990s, cert sales should be 250,000 and 80,000 respectively despite both reached the certification until 2006. I also see American Life (Gold) has certified sales of 20,000 when our system shows 25,000. Making numbers, her certified sales should be updated from 407,000 to 742,000 (counting 5K copies for the last album I mentioned. Otherwise and if i'm right should be 737,000 at least).
 * Mexico: "4 Minutes" was included with sales of 20,000 (2x Gold), but it was certified as a "Master ringtone" and not "Single track". That's means and if our system it's right, sales should be 60,000 for that song. Also, in this country The Confessions Tour was added with 10,000 certified sales but it was the album format whom obtained the Gold certification for sales at that time of 50,000 copies. You can either verify both categories in the general ref or this one exclusively for Madonna (until 2010): album cert (not DVD) and Master ringtone cert (not Single track). If this is right, her Mexican certified sales should be updated from 510,000 to 590,000.
 * Poland: The gold certification for Sticky & Sweet Tour wasn't added. It's the album format (see list in 2010), and not the DVD (in that year only two got Gold). Please confirm, Evita got Gold (50,000) in 1997 but probably is not counted since their system didn't show her name. Paradoxically, there are other works with "Various artists" on that list and "Evita" is the only one without a name. Anyways, if that's correct at least her certified units should be updated from 530,000 to 540,000.
 * Netherlands: This is a minor point. Unless our system it's wrong, Erotica should have 50,000 copies certified (Gold) and not 40,000 despite the certification was obtained until 2001. If so, her certified sales should be exactly 1.745 million (10K more copies).
 * Argentina: CAPIF is a completely messed website and now add the Madonna's case with a lot of albums/DVDs certified even with apparently different versions it's more complicated. I noted you haven't include certifications like American Life (Gold) for example, but there are other archived versions showing that. Her missing certifications here should be more than 100,000 more at least but once I have more time, i'll breakdown them with the specific links (all from CAPIF) to be in the same page.
 * Germany (BVMI): I'm not sure why the BVMI isn't showing MDNA, if it's on my file then obviously I've seen it, but anyways since it's not verifiable at the moment I removed it. Added the Gold for American Pie for 250,000 units.
 * Denmark: Good catch, added 250,000 units for "Ray of Light", and added 80,000 units for Immaculate Collection. The Platinum level there for albums released before 1994 was 80,00 units. I also corrected the release month on wiki page.
 * Mexico (Amprofon): The Master Ringtone levels are here. Yes, you're right about the Confessions Tour, I corrected it.
 * Poland (ZPAV): Added them both, Sticky & Sweet Tour (10,000 units) and Evita (50,000 units).
 * Netherlands (NVPI): Yes you're right, I corrected it from 40,000 to 50,000 units.
 * OK, so I'll be making the adjustments I indicated above for now. Good job.--Harout72 (talk) 00:58, 17 January 2021 (UTC)
 * Regarding Germany, Harout wasn't wrong tho. I remember archiving that gold certification on the album article back in 2012. Here's the archived link from its official website. It was there for about 3 years there until an IP removed it. Bluesatellite (talk) 05:00, 17 January 2021 (UTC)
 * No problem, Harout. I also had the impression with the German certification with that album. I thought the idea to start a research but have provided the link directly from the official entity. I supported the idea to remove it because the verifiability, but now with a proof I don't see biggest problems to reinsert it since a ref exists. Thanks for the explaination of the Mexican master singles certs. Although I don't know why our system shows different sales. The only idea came to my mind is that criteria levels were before 2008. At least we can see the first archived link was made on 2007 and probably increased a year later when master ringtones were popular. But idk. I'll have in a sandbox the breakdown of her Argentinean certs. since the two used (as generals) doesn't coverage some of her albums. There are some specific and all are from CAPIF too. And also noticed you wrote them in the list but they weren't included finally because the verifiability issue. I didn't notice this problem for the other two artists i've requested the files, but if there are others with the same problem, let me know and I could try find the specific CAPIF links. --Apoxyomenus (talk) 05:25, 17 January 2021 (UTC)
 * OK, I added Germany's Gold for MDNA back. Master Ringtone levels for Amprofon seem to have always been Gold=10,000, Platinum=25,000, at least they're the same in both archived versions. As for CAPIF certifications on my file, if I have a red asterisk next to the award, then it means those are currently verifiable. I once retrieved all the awards from CAPIF's site long ago when their searchable database was functioning. So if you can find archived versions of the CAPIF page that can support the awards that are still on my file but don't have the red asterisk, then we'll add them also.--Harout72 (talk) 14:22, 17 January 2021 (UTC)

Pink Floyd Missing In Collage
Each section of the 'Artists by reputed sales' portion of the article shows a picture collage of the artists featured in the table that's below the collage with all the statistics. In the '250 million or more records' section, Pink Floyd is missing from the collage at the top but listed in the table below. Is there any reason for this? If not, please fix this. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Nicholas The Second (talk • contribs) 07:12, 17 January 2021 (UTC)
 * Each section includes only seven images of the top certified artists.--Harout72 (talk) 14:27, 17 January 2021 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 19 January 2021 (2)
I might be wrong but I don't think anyone ever added the French Gold certification for the Police song Message in a Bottle for the sales of 500,000. Bluebuglove (talk) 03:44, 19 January 2021 (UTC)


 * Yes, that's added also. See this file for The Police, whatever you see on there has been added to the list also.--Harout72 (talk) 05:58, 19 January 2021 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 19 January 2021
Could you add to the Police's Argentina sales the 3x Platinum certification which was given to the Best of Sting and the Police album. Bluebuglove (talk) 00:54, 19 January 2021 (UTC)


 * It's listed as Platinum. Where are you seeing the 3x Platinum? The Platinum has already been added, but I don't see 3x Platinum for it.--Harout72 (talk) 02:33, 19 January 2021 (UTC)
 * This is our multi-socking Police vandal again above, but they are right – the album is listed on there twice, first for a platinum certification, then lower down for a triple platinum certification. Richard3120 (talk) 21:00, 19 January 2021 (UTC)
 * The 3x Platinum is for DVD (24,000 units), which has been added to the Argentina's total.--Harout72 (talk) 23:05, 19 January 2021 (UTC)

MJ
Harout72, with 234.5 million available certification for Jackson, it is time to update the sales claims of MJ to 400 Million. Even though the last few certifications updates are stream generated. What’s your opinion?.— Akhiljaxxn (talk) 20:00, 16 January 2021 (UTC)
 * @Akhiljaxxn Our first move will be removing the 300 million when MJ reaches 250 million mark with his certified units, and once the 300 million is removed, we'll add the 400 million. All his recent RIAA certifications must be streaming generated. What are the most recent sources for 400 million figures for MJ?--Harout72 (talk) 21:00, 16 January 2021 (UTC)
 * In 2016, there was a consensus to bring back Jackson's 400 million claims once his certifications passed the 200-220 mark. The available certifications now stand at 235 million. Even if you translate the RIAA certifications 40 million certification by RIAA from 2018 into 15 million considering they are streaming generated, Jackson will have 220 million claimed sales, which is 55% for his 400 million claims. Isn't it good enough for an artist who began charting in 1971?.— Akhiljaxxn (talk) 07:14, 17 January 2021 (UTC)
 * I couldn't find any recent sources for his 400 claims except this 7-year-old one. All of the recent sources are flooded with one billion claims.— Akhiljaxxn (talk) 07:18, 17 January 2021 (UTC)
 * For me a difference of 100-150 million of "missing" certifications aren't completely "wrong" since they (at least in the case of the first 6 artists) have a lot of uncertified units and probably some missing certs, so there always (millions of) numbers we can't see among other facts. A minor point: Michael Jackson started since 1971 as a solo performer, but his actual peak performance started in the late 1979. Even his singles/albums in the period of 1971-1978 weren't great in sales after his death so he's almost an artist of the 1980's in the rule terms (or 90% +). Also you have to keep in mind, Harout never mentioned in the previous discussion the certifications with streaming generated. That's why he's not wrong in mentioning it now; we can see two years later (2018) his certifications saw a boost of millions in the USA mainly from singles (digital sales) and have been the latest yet. It seems tbh like his record company/Estate of Michael Jackson paid the latest certifications fees of each even if they aren't actual/whole sales. All of these are facts. I don't oppose to the idea to move him with 400M but at the same time I don't oppose to the new Harout's point of view. That's why I wanna wait for a counter-response from him and if there are other comments from others users, that will be great. In the case if his sales are upgraded to 400M, I also don't have problem to include the 2013 reference. Cheers, --Apoxyomenus (talk) 08:37, 17 January 2021 (UTC)
 * @Akhiljaxxn We had a similar discussion back in August of 2018. That was 2.5 years ago, right after the RIAA update. So since then MJ has collected some 5 million certified units only. When we bring in the 400 million after MJ hits the 250 million mark with his certified sales, we'll still have 150 million units of gap between his certified sales and the 400 million. Yes there are tens of millions of records that are not certified, but not 150-160 million. Apoxyomenus is right about MJ having begun experiencing his success in the early '80s. So all main key markets did have certification systems. Anyways, what is the point of rushing into upgrading MJ's sales figure or any other artists' sales figure for that matter? He is in the top section of the world best selling list, isn't he?--Harout72 (talk) 14:53, 17 January 2021 (UTC)

The point of rushing into upgrading MJ's sales figure or any other artists' sales figure is to make this list more accurate with its available Certification. While taking a detailed look at the claimed sales of the top of 5 artists ( The Beatles, Elvis Presley, Michael Jackson, Elton John, and Madonna). I found the first two artists have been given more consideration considering the artists from the 50s and 60s have tons of million certifications that are missing considering there was no certification system during this period. That’s is far too liberal for the time period.

Let's start with The Beatles. Their first record was released in 1962. During this time RIAA, the biggest market of music sales, and the Beatles were already established. 217.2 Million out of 282.6 of The Beatles certifications from RIAA which is 77% of their total certifications. Their second-biggest market UK which is also their homeland only started the certification system in 1973. Their available certifications from the UK is 23 Million which is slightly more than 8% of their total certifications. Their third-biggest market in Canada where the certification system started in 1975. In Canada, their available certification is 14.4 million which is only 4% of their total available certifications. Considering the 89% of the total certifications of the Beatles are from these three countries. 77% out of 89 of these from a country where the certification system already established shows that this difference of 317.4 (600-282.6) millions of "missing" certifications is completely "wrong".

When it comes to Elvis Presley, his debut album was released in 1956. Before that, he only released four to five songs. RIAA has established in 1958 after four years of Presleys first song release. and 199M out of his 227.3 million total available certifications are from the USA. Which is almost 88% of his total available certifications. Presley's available certifications in the UK is 16.4 Million. Which is more than just 7% of his total available certifications. Since 95% of his total available certifications are from these two countries and one of these two countries had set up a certification system just after 4-year of Presley's career indicating there is no way he is missing another 100 Million from the USA or 372.7 Million (600-227.3) from World Wide.

The other problem that I see in the list is the claimed sales of Elton John and Madonna are the same even though John has 20.4 Million more available certifications than Madonna. And his first charted record in 1969, 13 years Before Madonna. The math and logic are way off here. This entire page is seemingly in need of a revamp.— Akhiljaxxn (talk) 20:08, 19 January 2021 (UTC)


 * @Akhiljaxxn Your logic and comparison is flawed. Yes The Beatles have 217.250 million certified units from the RIAA, and yes that is 76.8% of the total available certified sales. But you should also consider the fact that the US represents roughly only some 22% of the entire global sales. The fact that 217.250 million certified units comes from the RIAA which represents only 22% overall global sales, means, had all music markets had certification-systems when Beatles first started charting, their entire certified sales could be three times that. Even large or medium markets like Japan, UK, Germany, France, Canada, Australia, Netherlands Spain and others didn't have certification-system in the 60s, therefore, the certified sales for Beatles we have for those markets represent only fraction of their actual sales. One more important point needs to be considered, all bands/artists from US, UK, Australia, Canada sell much of their records in English speaking countries than in other markets. All in all, their 600 million for worldwide sales seems just about right. Presley's case is very similar also.


 * If I were to use the same analogy for MJ, who's international success has begun in 1979, then things change very quickly, because lot of the music markets had certification-system in late 70s or early 80s, including US, UK, Germany, France, Canada, Netherlands, Spain, Argentina, Finland, New Zealand. And again, MJ is from US and much of his records sales have been generated by the English speaking world. So, his 350 doesn't seem very low. As for Elton John, he hasn't been worldwide popular until mid 70s. Anyways, like I mentioned above, we'll remove his 300 million once he's around 250 million with his certified sales, and at the same time add the 400 million.--Harout72 (talk) 23:51, 19 January 2021 (UTC)


 * These three artists have had almost the same claimed sales in 90's and early 00's chronologically —except for the biggest jump in 2006 with the MJ hoax of 750 million— and contininuing to our present time. Their certified units have been similar as well. Take this version in 2016 for example, all of those three (Madonna, MJ and John) have had almost the same amount of certified units at that time. The same in a version of 2012. But in the Elton's case he increased his certifications thanks to RIAA as with MJ. All of those gaps now are mostly RIAA streaming certifications.
 * The other fact: John was active since 60's yes, and active back-to-back since 70's and we can see a proof both in his singles and albums discography. This is not the same with MJ's chart performance from 70's, except with Of the wall in the late 1979 and some singles with retrospective certified by almost only in the USA and another exception of "Don't Stop 'Til You Get Enough". After that, he's almost 90% (and above) an artist from 80's based on his performance since 1971-2021. As I said before, since there are some missing certs and numbers we can't always see, a difference of 100-150 from all of them (including The Beatles and Presley) it's not wrong. In regards the jump, I don't opposse but I still giving a part of the reason to Harout because he's right mentioning the issue with millions certs generated by streamings from RIAA. To be really honest, many RIAA certs seems very promotional in some artist's cases, and are far away to be actual sales. For some record label paying fees to get certs (mainly RIAA) to promote their artists will no be a problem. Although in other cases is based on shipments of millions unsold thinking singles/album will sold that amount but final sales are less. I also don't think you will agree to move Drake e,g that sold more records than MJ based only in certifications, which is almost streaming generated and thanks to RIAA. In a minor part now, that's apply at a certain point with MJ to move. --Apoxyomenus (talk) 20:50, 19 January 2021 (UTC)

Harout, I do not understand how my logic and comparison are flawed. The Beatles have 217.250 million certified units from the RIAA, which is almost 77% of the total available certified sales. RIAA represents only 22% of overall global sales. They have 23 Million certifications from the UK which is slightly more than 8% of their total available certifications. UK/BPI represents 8.5% of overall global sales. Their third-biggest market in Canada, where their available certification is 14.4 million which is only 4% of their total available certifications. Canada represents 2.1% of overall global sales. 89% of the total available certifications of the Beatles are from these three countries which represent 32.6%of overall global sales. Like you mentioned above all bands/artists from the US, UK, Australia, Canada sell much of their records in English-speaking countries than in other markets. Coincidentally These three countries are English-speaking countries and the primary markets of the Beatles. If you minus the RIAA certification of the Beatles from their total available certification, considering RIAA was already there before the start of their career, the available certifications from the rest of the market will be 65.35 Million. That’s the math. Math does not lie. Even if we consider your unsourced opinion of the Beatles selling three times more than the math adds up to be from the rest of the market where there was no certification system before they first started charting, the available certification will be 65.35X3=196.05 and their total available certification will be 196.05+217.250=413.3M Million. So the difference of 317.4 (600-282.6) millions of "missing" certifications is simply not justifiable.— Akhiljaxxn (talk) 19:50, 20 January 2021 (UTC)
 * Please read my explanation above again. You don't think for example UK's, German, French, Canadian, Dutch, Spanish certified sales would have all been much higher for The Beatles, had they all had certification-systems in the 60s like the US did? That's where your logic is failing. And that's not the case with MJ.--Harout72 (talk) 20:11, 20 January 2021 (UTC)
 * Your example of UK's, German, French, Canada, Dutch, Spanish, and the other markets is nothing more than your unsourced assumptions that the Beatles could have (unlikely) sold three times more records in these markets. This unsourced opinion have been included in this 196.05 Million ( 65.35 × 3 ). What is not clear here? Even if we added your opinion that they sold three times more in these markets their certification would be at 196.05+217.250=413.3M Million.  And still, there is an egregious gap of 186.7 Million (600- 413.3).


 * I don't think that the certified sales of the Beatles would have all been three times more If there were certification-systems in other countries in the 60s as the US except the UK. It’s just not historically a probability. It will be nowhere near their available certification from RIAA. There is no way they are selling three times more from non-English speaking countries. The language, market share, population of these countries, and their available certification from these countries don't suggest that.


 * There are a few other questions that need to be answered. How did you conclude that they could have sold three times if there were certification systems back in the 50s or even '60s? Why not two or four times? Do you have any sources suggesting your claims?. If not Isn't that WP:OR and doesn’t WP:CRYSTALBALL apply to this entire article?.— Akhiljaxxn (talk) 21:44, 21 January 2021 (UTC)
 * Original research? That really is the only counter argument MJ and Janet Jackson fans seem to have these days? Had you read everything I explained without shooting back in anger because MJ is not on the top of the list, you wouldn't have asked everything multiple times. There is no need for a source for what's been explained above, it's called common sense. Look for example at New Zealand's certified sales for Beatles (660,000 certified units), it's had a certification-system since 1978, and now look at Brazil's certified sales for Beatles (550,000 certified units) which didn't have a certification-system until 1990. Brazil has a music market that's 5 times bigger than New Zealand's market. Now compare Brazil to another south American market, look at Argentina's certified sales for Beatles (1.9 million certified units), it's had a certification-system since 1980 and it's over 3 times smaller than Brazil's market. If you still can't see the point I'm making, then perhaps you shouldn't get yourself involved in this kind of discussions. I'm going to conclude this discussion by suggesting you to read the Definitions, it clearly states The claimed figures are upgraded only when there is a significant progress in artists' certified units. In other words, the available certified units for each artist should get relatively closer to already listed claimed figure in order for higher figures to replace the listed ones.--Harout72 (talk) 23:23, 21 January 2021 (UTC)
 * Harout, you are not supposed to call the other editors by names or brand them as fans, yet again breaking more Wikipedia policies. You can be a fan of whoever you want to be. Wikipedia rules are in place to not be broken. I have read everything that you said and I still feel your argument contradicts the other and the figures don't tally up at all. And it is clear the page has issues like WP:OWNERSHIP, WP:OR and WP:CRYSTALBALL]].You said there was no certification system except the USA during the 60s and they could have certified three times more if there was a certification system back then. I have no idea how you reached that unsourced conclusion. The figure three times is not commonsense it is clearly original research or made up. Even if we consider your speculation and granted the Beatles three times the sales from the rest of the world except the USA, their certification will not be more than 196.05 Million ( 65.35 of their current total available certifications from all the market except usa× 3 times more ). If we add this figure to their available certification of the USA which was established in the late 50s their total certification will be 196.05+217.250=413.3M. And still, there is a gap of 186.7 Million (600-413.3). If we didn't calculate your “three times more” theory the gap of the available certification and claimed sales will be 317.4 M. These two figures contradict the definition of the claimed figures that they are upgraded only when there is a significant progress in artists' certified units. In other words, the available certified units for each artist should get relatively closer to already listed claimed figure in order for higher figures to replace the listed ones. if you are not ready to rectify this issue which I addressed above I will have to take this to the Admins notice board or to arbitration.— Akhiljaxxn (talk) 04:55, 23 January 2021 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 23 January 2021
I was reading this file for The Police's certification and just so happen to see that their single "De Doo Doo Doo De Da Da Da" was classified under albums instead of singles, anyway to 400,000 to the Police's UK sales to fox this mistake. Bluebuglove (talk) 07:07, 23 January 2021 (UTC)
 * On my file it is listed as Single.--Harout72 (talk) 11:25, 23 January 2021 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 23 January 2021 (2)
Could you add the Police's Grestest Hits album certification which went 2x Platinum in December 2020. Bluebuglove (talk) 18:06, 23 January 2021 (UTC)


 * Check the file I provided for you. It's on there. Whatever is on the file is also added to the list.--Harout72 (talk) 19:24, 23 January 2021 (UTC)

Part 2: Madonna's missing certifications
Hi, Harout. I finished four more countries. Please see in my sandbox (version: February 1, 2021). Pinging for a "third review" if he kindly re-verity Brazil's case if is available/or wants. Last time, I talked about at least 100,000 units missing in Argentina, but seems is above 1 million if everything is correct, also pinging if he can double-check info. Sincerely, --Apoxyomenus (talk) 01:36, 1 February 2021 (UTC)
 * I updated the Argentinean certified sales on my file, see here. Let me know if anything else needs to be addressed. The certification for Celebration is for the album, isn't it? As for Brazil, they apply certifications based on release dates, see earlier levels here. Their levels for digital downloads for international artists were different, see this IFPI 2009 list and this IFPI 2013 list for example, look under the notes section of singles table. That remained the same until September 2017, then changes in levels were made in November 2017. As for Something to Remember, it could be an error, I'm not sure, but I prefer to have only one Gold. As for the Gold for Music being 100,000 units, you're right, I corrected it on my list.--Harout72 (talk) 03:53, 1 February 2021 (UTC)
 * Yes, Celebration its supposed to be the album certified as audio/album unit. You already included it. Also in Argentina, seems you haven't included "Revolver" (20,000; platinum). It was also excluded the other DVD-version certified of The Girlie Show; judging by the wiki article, the video compilation was released in DVD too (one of the first video albums with this format) so at least it confirm the existence of two formats and seems both reached a platinum status in Argentina (proof; control + f) Aside the homonymous release of The Confession Tour who also went platinum with the album bundle format, what I understood there is two different packages certified platinum by The Confessions Tour in DVD/video format (specific link) Maybe I could be wrong, or I could be right and a third-opinion may help. Her current certifitications figure there are 2,068,000 and if i'm right needs to be 2,104,000 (including 20,000 + 8,000 + 8,000 from those three new titles).
 * Understood the IFPI summary in regards Brazilian digital singles certs and their cert-level application with releases date. Finally I don't wanna push on this, it just brought my attention and here are my thoughts: Initially I thought the same with Something to Remember and unless is other album who received that gold award but they counted twice with this one or simply they might no be wrong. Of course, I try to avoid cherry-pick things and keep accuracy. At the same time I know certifications databases aren't perfect, and virtually all of them contains different errors. This is how I bow/ed with the verifiability in this particular example supporting the inclusion because the title is verifiable twice with gold and different years. A third-opinion could help to add a new perspective or support one of both point of views or simply we could ask them. Regards, --Apoxyomenus (talk) 08:19, 1 February 2021 (UTC)
 * Argentina's database is the biggest mess I have ever encountered. I've left out the single "Revolver" because the song is from 2009, yet it says it's been certified as Platinum in 1991? I'm not sure what to make of that. Plus CAPIF doesn't seem to have certified any other singles as far as I'm concerned, although I see they have certification-levels for singles. I added the other DVD format for Girlie Show and also the other DVD format for Confessions Tour. Here is the updated file, includes Finland's and Norway's updates.--Harout72 (talk) 13:54, 1 February 2021 (UTC)
 * I think Harout72 clarified about the information from Brazil that I could help. About Something to remember I believe it is a mistake of the site, because in Brazil, unlike some Latin countries, we never had 2x gold or even Platinum + gold, the certifications have always been gold, platinum, double platinum, triple platinum and disc of Diamond. STR was probably certified platinum here.--88marcus (talk) 14:21, 1 February 2021 (UTC)
 * Thank you for your inputs, Harout and Marcus. While I don't have problem to have in their articles thoses certs since are a verifiable thing, I also don't oppose to exclude them in the sales report from this list despite errors from their databases. I think all is done. Cheers, --Apoxyomenus (talk) 02:17, 2 February 2021 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 2 February 2021
No one ever added the UK silver certification for the Beatle's Penny Lane song and the UK platinum certification for the Beatle's Let it Be album, both were certified in November 2020. Zenyattasting (talk) 03:09, 2 February 2021 (UTC)


 * I had missed all of the certifications posted that week by BPI, thanks for bringing it to my attentions. The Platinum for "Let It Be" is for the single, however. They're both added now.--Harout72 (talk) 05:05, 2 February 2021 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 2 February 2021
One other Beatle certification you forgot to add was for the SGT Pepper album going 18× Platinum in the UK in August 2020. Zenyattasting (talk) 06:11, 2 February 2021 (UTC)


 * I added it. It's very unusual of BPI to post certifications on a Monday. That's the reason why I had missed it along some other certifications.--Harout72 (talk) 14:53, 2 February 2021 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 3 February 2021
The Police's albums Zenyatta Mondatta and Ghost in the Machine 1990 CD reissues were both certified Gold in 1991 and it has not been added (Zenyatta and Ghost were both originally vinyl with Zenyatta certified Platinum and Ghost certified Gold both in 1981). Click the link to the French certifications archive and click on the artist finder until you find the Police and you will see the two 1991 Gold certifications for the two album reissues also this link is evidence for 1990 reissue. Zenyattasting (talk) 05:28, 3 February 2021 (UTC)


 * There is only one Gold for Ghost in the Machine certified in 1981, that's added. As for Zenyatta Mondatta, it's been certified Platinum in 1981, and that's added also. Whether it's Zenyatta Mondatta re-issue that's been certified Gold in 1991, it's unclear, Infodisc has many errors on that site. For example, they have two Double-Platinum posted for The Singles, one posted as Platinum certified in 1991 and the other Platinum certified in 1992. That doesn't mean they re-issued the Singles in 1992 which immediately reached another Double-Platinum status. Your sources for re-issues are not for the French market. Also, Infodisc doesn't specify whether the certifications are for the Vinyl format only. Certifications are issued based on all formats (Cassette, Vinyl, CD) combined.--Harout72 (talk) 05:57, 3 February 2021 (UTC)


 * Note that Discogs is not considered reliable per WP:ALBUMAVOID. They allow users to change the information, so they fail WP:USERG. Binksternet (talk) 06:03, 3 February 2021 (UTC)

Madonna
Madonna claimed sales are over 335 millions according to Guinness World Record since at least 2015 edition. Those 335 million record sales were also the same claimed by her old record label Warner when in 2009 they released another greateast hits album called "Celebration". Certainly her sales are already over 350 million but without any updates from official sources we cannot put that here still we can certainly say 335-350 million as she already released 2 studio albums, a few singles and other live albums since and her catalog keeps selling. Here is the link for that 335 million records nunber:https://www.guinnessworldrecords.com/world-records/best-selling-female-recording-artist — Preceding unsigned comment added by 95.94.43.146 (talk • contribs) November 28, 2020


 * How is that even possible for her to be selling 350 million records if her total certified sales are below 175 million? She sold 225-250 million records at MOST. Madonna needs to have total certified units of 260 million to have the claim of 335 million. She is currently at 173 million total certified units. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Fidelove (talk • contribs) December 17, 2020

Actually there are so many reliable source for 335 million sales figure:
 * https://www.theguardian.com/music/2020/sep/15/madonna-to-direct-and-co-write-her-own-biopic
 * https://www.reuters.com/article/film-madonna/update-1-madonna-to-direct-and-co-write-a-movie-about-her-life-and-music-idUKL1N2GC1OD
 * https://variety.com/2020/film/news/madonna-to-direct-her-biopic-co-written-by-diablo-cody-for-universal-1234770633/
 * https://ew.com/movies/madonna-directing-biopic-movie-universal/
 * https://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-8606291/Madonna-leaves-Interscope-Records-return-Warner-8-figure-deal.html
 * https://deadline.com/2020/09/madonna-biopic-movie-universal-pictures-diablo-cody-script-madonna-directing-amy-pascal-producing-1234576593/
 * https://www.guinnessworldrecords.com/world-records/best-selling-female-recording-artist —Navyiconer (talk) 14:58, 3 February 2021 (UTC)

Her certified sales are increased can we use the 335 million figure? There are so many reliable source for this figure and actually Madonna has sold more than Elton John can we put Madonna first? You are all so knowledgeable about sales informations you should know Madonna has sold more than Elton John i guess Navyiconer (talk) 15:09, 14 February 2021 (UTC)
 * Reliable sources might claim 335 million for Madonna, that doesn't mean she's actually sold 335 million records. They all copy the same inflated figure from each other. Based on the certified sales of both Madonna and Elton John, and based on the year each has begun charting, it's clear that Madonna has not sold more records than Elton John. All in all, the 335 million figure for Madonna should not be used unless her certified sales are somewhere in the neighborhood of 200-220 million. Also, Madonna's certified sales have gone up by only 6 million units in the past two years, that's not a significant increase.--Harout72 (talk) 16:26, 14 February 2021 (UTC)

Lady Gaga
Harout. I want to raise her sales to 149m. But, what do you think at this moment? She has pass 150m in her certified sales. Thanks Politsi (talk) 04:53, 21 February 2021 (UTC)
 * Her actual sales can't possibly be more than 124 million, as stated by our current source. All her past few years of certifications are streaming generated. We can use the 149 million when her certified sales are at least 160-165 million.--Harout72 (talk) 15:11, 21 February 2021 (UTC)

Updating Percentage in 2021
Recently I saw Canada, Sweden and Norway has changed. Then, it is more than 1% of total certification. How about raising 1990 to 65% and 2015 to 82%? 71.97 and 90.95 is actual calculation. It seems 3% for each year and 0.8% without round-off. --221.144.84.164 (talk) 05:11, 27 February 2021 (UTC)
 * The listed percentages for each market are based on 2010 IFPI data. The more recent data provided by IFPI, are for top 20 largest markets. The 2010 data is the most recent IFPI data that includes markets like Poland, New Zealand, Finland. If you have a complete IFPI data for more recent years than 2010, let me know, we can make changes.--Harout72 (talk) 14:28, 27 February 2021 (UTC)

new lady gaga certification in switzerland
Must Add new certification for Lady gaga in switzerland for chormatica and shallow and artpop album and the soundtrack a star is born and always remember us this way 5.89.204.151 (talk) 16:40, 28 February 2021 (UTC)

Céline Dion
Didn't Billboard already stated way back in 2021 that Céline already sold 250 million albums worldwide? Why is she still not included on the bracket? Billboard itself is a reliable source. Although she is one of the most undercertified artists ever, she needs to get the recognition she deserves.

Link: https://www.billboard.com/amp/articles/columns/pop/7776996/the-illustrious-career-of-celine-dion Loibird90 (talk) 15:13, 4 March 2021 (UTC)


 * I mean 2017

Billbiard already stated in 2017 that Céline already sold 250 million albums. Billboard is a reliable source like what this page says, she needs to be put on the same bracket as Madonna and Rihanna! Loibird90 (talk) 15:14, 4 March 2021 (UTC)
 * First, your source says albums and not records. Second, you need to read up the Definitions on the main page where it states "For clarity, the sources used, say the term "records" (singles, albums, videos) and not "albums". However, if all available sources for an artist or band say "albums", such sources are only used if the certified album units of the said artist meet the required percentage amount. This list uses claimed figures that are closest to artists' available certified units: inflated claimed figures that meet the required certified units amount but are unrealistically high, are not used."--Harout72 (talk) 15:24, 4 March 2021 (UTC)

Celine Dion's sales are obviously undercertified. If you're saying artists with claimed figures that are closest to artists' available certified units is a rule for this page, how about Madonna? Her certified sales based on this page is around 178m, yet the claimed sales is at 300m? Are those figures close to each other for you? And same goes for some artists on the list. All I'm saying is that, Billboard is already an enough reliable source. Loibird90 (talk) 13:57, 5 March 2021 (UTC)

Also, I see Pink Floyd is listed in the bracket "250m or more" when they only have 121m certified units.

While Celine Dion with 132m certified units is still in the 200m bracket? Despite Billboard already stated she sold 250m by 2017?

It doesn't make sense. It seems like the rule only applies to Celine then?

Both Pink Floyd and Céline Dion has the same claimed sales. But Celine has higher certified units than them. The difference is that Pink Floyd is place higher than her?

She should be placed in that bracket then if that's the case. Loibird90 (talk) 14:06, 5 March 2021 (UTC)


 * The main problem with this Billboard source from 2017 is that it asserts a number without showing their work, without calculating for us how that number was derived. The second problem is that subsequent writers ignored the figure of 250 million, showing that this particular article was not considered reliable by the media. Finally, the figure of 250 million is an unrealistic jump upward from previous claims. The math doesn't work. Binksternet (talk) 14:50, 5 March 2021 (UTC)


 * @Loibird90, claiming that Celine Dion's sales are undercertified doesn't help your argument. The fact of the matter is that there aren't enough certified sales supporting such an outrageously inflated albums sales figure as 250 million. As for you comparing Pink Floyd with Celine Dion, your entire approach is incorrect. Pink Floyd have begun charting in 1967, even the larger music markets including UK, Germany, France didn't have a certification system until mid 1970. Whereas Celine Dion has begun charting in 1981, whose international success didn't start until 1990. All significant music markets had a certification system in 1990. The rule applies to all. Once more I suggest you to go over the Definitions and see how the list is operated.--Harout72 (talk) 20:47, 5 March 2021 (UTC)

Pink Floyd is listed in the '250m or more' with only 121m certified units wouldn't that make it more questionable? And the fact that you said, there was no certification system around the time Pink Floyd started to chart, that makes it even more intriguing? 121m is way far from 250m to even be considered on the '250m or more bracket'. Loibird90 (talk) 07:08, 6 March 2021 (UTC)

Plus, Madonna with only 178m certified units is placed on the same bracket as well despite claiming over 300m. Does both numbers seems close to you to even consider that? That's like almost same gap with Céline (around 120m gap of certified and claimed). Loibird90 (talk) 07:15, 6 March 2021 (UTC)
 * @Loibird90 Are you actually reading what people are saying to you or you're only interested in stating your point of view? If larger music markets didn't have a certification system during the first 8 years Pink Floyd was charting, that means their albums/singles have sold without being certified, that means their certified sales could have been much higher had they begun charting in mid 1970s. Again, your source speaks of albums sales only. Celine Dion has only 106 million certified albums, the rest of the certifications are for singles and videos. Her certified albums sales would have to be much higher for us to continue this discussion. As for Madonna's 300 million claim, it is supported by 59.6% certified sales. As for Pink Floyd, who have begun charting in late 1960s, they have their 250 million claim supported by 48% certified sales. Even if your source said records for Celine Dion, and not just albums, that figure would be supported by only 52.8% certified sales. Either way it's totally inflated to use it here.--Harout72 (talk) 14:40, 6 March 2021 (UTC)

How much certified sales would it take then for her to be placed on the "250m or more"? since Billboard itself is inflating Celines sales then. Loibird90 (talk) 23:15, 6 March 2021 (UTC)
 * Her certified sales should first get close to the 175 million claim, once that happens, we'll first remove the 175 million claim. She'll have to be well above the 150-155 million mark with her certified sales for that to happen. After that, her certified sales should get really close to the 200 million mark so we can add a higher claimed figure next to the 200 million. But the source would have to speak of records sales, not just albums sales.--Harout72 (talk) 23:47, 6 March 2021 (UTC)

Falling Into You certification in the US finally got an update. Its now 12x Platinum. Update it please. Loibird90 (talk) 13:16, 9 March 2021 (UTC)

Celine Dion receives new RIAA Certifications. Please update her certified units. Loibird90 (talk) 13:38, 9 March 2021 (UTC)

Drake 356 Million
Isn't it about time we put Drake on the first list? he has more than 300 million total certified units, more than anyone else on the list, including everyone in the top list. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 209.128.2.98 (talk) 14:53, 12 March 2021 (UTC)

lana del rey and ariana grande
why they are not in the list? they sold over 75 million 5.89.204.151 (talk) 13:04, 13 March 2021 (UTC)

Shakira
On the Anghami page (the most important musical medium in the Middle East) and on the Celebraty Net Worth page it is specified that the Colombian singer has sold more than 125 million discs mixed with albums and singles.If we consider that Laundry Service sold 15 million copies, SHAKIRA sold 1.2 million, The oral fixation collection sold between them 12 million copies, Pies descalzos sold 5 million copies. MTV Unplugged sold 2 million copies. ¿Donde están los ladrones? sold 6-8 million copies. Sale el sol sold 4 million copies. She wolf sold 2 million copies. El dorado sold 2 million total copies. A total of 50 million sales that is adding the sales of singles of Hips don't lie with 12 million solid sales. Whenever Wherever with 10 million, Waka Waka with 10 million sales, Beautiful Liar sold 7 million sales, Torture sold more than 6 million copies. Try everything sold between 7-9 million copies. She wolf sold 7 million records. Can't remember to forget you sold 7 million records. Lalala sold 5 million copies. And blackmail sold 8 million total sales. underneath your clothes sold 4 million sales and Rabiosa sold 5 million copies. In total, it sold about 139 million records. That taking as sources pages like Billboard and reliable sources without counting streaming.

I think we should raise Shakira's position. I wait for an answer.Alejandro Ortiz 15 (talk) 20:44, 13 March 2021 (UTC)Alejandro Ortiz
 * I suggest you go over the Definitions on the main page, instead of waiting for an answer for such an inflated figure. In the future, make sure you post your request by providing the source you're speaking of, not that it would matter for the figure you mentioned.--Harout72 (talk) 23:23, 13 March 2021 (UTC)
 * What if I move her with 80m. Is that okay now?. Thanks Politsi (talk) 14:24, 15 March 2021 (UTC)
 * Let's wait for Shakira to get close to 65 million with her certified sales, and then we'll move her up.--Harout72 (talk) 19:51, 15 March 2021 (UTC)

Is this page misleading?
This page doesn’t differentiate between albums and singles or digital and physical sales. This means 10-20 streams equal an entire album. The price and durability of the album fare outweighs a handfull of stream. This makes Rihanna seems as a more successful artist than for example Elvis or The Beatles. Being a history major with in-depth knowledge of music history I can assure you it is not the case. But this is perhaps not even relevant to discuss. It is just a fact that digital and physical sales are incomparable and I think this page should show this. Could we split the list in two? The physical and the digital era? Friislund79 (talk) 18:32, 2 April 2021 (UTC)

2Pac's certification in the Netherlands
Tupac have certified sales of 200,000 units in the Netherlands in which they include:

(Albums) Greatest Hits: Platinum (100,000) R U Still Down? [Remember Me]: Gold (50,000) (Singles) Changes: Gold (50,000)

Also just in case if you wanna check it by yourself. You can go and type "2 Pac" in the NVPI database.

Not to mention if you also type "2 Pac" in the IFPI Denmark database, you'll find the certification for the album "All Eyez on Me" certified Platinum (20,000) so that raises the total to 155,000 units.

Hope whoever reads this has a great day. Moh8213 (talk) 17:09, 6 April 2021 (UTC)
 * Added them all, thanks for bringing them to my attention.--Harout72 (talk) 21:58, 6 April 2021 (UTC)

U welcome lol also forgot Pac has certification in France for his Greatest Hits album, certified Gold (100,000) in 2002. Moh8213 (talk) 08:29, 7 April 2021 (UTC)
 * I added that also.--Harout72 (talk) 13:01, 7 April 2021 (UTC)

Mariah Carey
What happened to the references listed that Mariah Carey's records of 220 million. there was tons of references and the discussion vanished.

Maybe add pink floyd image to the list, since they are on it?
File:Pink_Floyd_-_all_members.jpg this one is from their wikipedia page.

Incorrect Data
Hello, The data that has been used in this article is completely wrong and based on inaccurate estimates. For example, there is no way that Rihanna has already sold more than Mariah Carey. I think we should change this page to match this: https://chartmasters.org/2020/05/cspc-mass-update-streaming/. This website accurately analyzed artists by their album sales, single sales, streaming, and more to compile correct sales numbers. If you click on any of the artists in the list, there is a detailed page with many sub-pages that analyzes every component of an artist's sales and describes the calculations they make. These numbers are accurate and also make a lot of sense. Thanks

New ARIA certifications for Céline
Céline Dion has received new certifications in Australia! Loibird90 (talk) 15:11, 10 April 2021 (UTC)
 * And you see all that where?--Harout72 (talk) 15:31, 10 April 2021 (UTC)

https://australian-charts.com/forum.asp?todo=viewthread&id=58525 Loibird90 (talk) 00:47, 11 April 2021 (UTC)
 * How is that a reliable source?--Harout72 (talk) 00:53, 11 April 2021 (UTC)

Well didn't ARIA stop making new certifications visible to the public since September 2020 but that site continues to post updates. You can see even the newer ones everything is accurate. Loibird90 (talk) 04:26, 11 April 2021 (UTC)
 * How can you tell whether or not they're accurate if it's a forum and it's unclear where he/she is copying and pasting those certs from? We cannot rely on that, the certs must come directly from certifying bodies, in this case ARIA.--Harout72 (talk) 12:53, 11 April 2021 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 14 April 2021
To be added

Artist: Ariana Grande

Country / Market: United States

Period active: 2011-present

Release-year of first charted record: 2013

Genre: Pop / R&B

Total certified units: 121.14 million (sources: official websites of music recording certification systems, already referenced in article)
 * US: 76 million *false*
 * JPN: 1.3 million
 * GER: 2.8 million
 * UK: 18.8 million
 * FRA: 1.83 million
 * CAN: 5.64 million
 * AUS: 4.27 million
 * BRA: 1.96 million
 * NLD: 360,000
 * ITA: 1.725 million
 * SPA: 380,000
 * SWE: 435,000
 * NOR: 2.61 million
 * DEN: 1.285 million
 * MEX: 840,000
 * BEL: 290,000
 * NZ: 615,000


 * US sellings' value must come from RIAA website, and 76 million units is not a true number*

Claimed sales: 81 million (https://www.thethings.com/how-ariana-grande-earns-spends-her-150-million-net-worth/) DriesTaeymans (talk) 11:50, 14 April 2021 (UTC)
 * Red information icon with gradient background.svg Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. The source included is not reliable, nor does it outline the album sales you're providing. Thanks ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 12:03, 14 April 2021 (UTC)

Luke Bryan
Luke Bryan sold 75 million. Here is the source https://popculture.com/country-music/news/luke-bryan-shares-graphic-video-horrifying-fishing-accident/ Thank you 103.153.82.41 (talk) 08:45, 12 April 2021 (UTC)
 * Harout. That user above is actually.. ME. I put that source and acting like someone else only for Fun.. and there is no serious intention to bring Luke Bryan into the list with that source. And now I see Luke Bryan already inside the club. So it's okay to use that source (popculture.com) for him? At least for while?. Thanks Politsi (talk) 18:57, 14 April 2021 (UTC)
 * Actually, it's a good thing you mentioned him, his certified sales are high enough for 75 million claim. That source, while not what we'd usually rely on, it's ok temporarily. Also, have you come across a reliable source for Ariana Grande that claims some 75 million records? Her US certified sales alone are 77 million, probably largely streaming generated but with certified sales from all other markets, her certified sales could go as high as 125-130 million.--Harout72 (talk) 20:48, 14 April 2021 (UTC)
 * Not yet, I have found some reliable source for her but the sales calculated only 70m claim. Not enough to be on the list.Politsi (talk) 05:20, 15 April 2021 (UTC)

I have not yet found a reliable source of Ariana Grande's claimed sales, but RIAA has just updated some of her plaques and boosted her to 85 million. She could reach 100 million RIAA units if her entire catalogue is updated, so there might be coming some articles on that soon (just like when Nicki Minaj hit 100 million certified RIAA units). By the way, this update includes Side To Side ft. Nicki Minaj, which can be added to Nicki's total certified sales! --DriesTaeymans (talk) 21:47, 14 April 2021 (UTC)

Add Dolly Parton
Dolly Parton has claimed sales of 100 million records sold worldwide. The best (in my opinion) and most recent source for this is from IMG Licensing who are currently licensing Parton's name and image for her new perfume, among other products. (https://www.imglicensing.com/client-portfolio/dolly-parton/) The RIAA even awarded her a plaque for sales of 100 million records in 2014, although most news sources reported this as 100 million albums, the plaque itself states 100 million records worldwide. (Parton pictured with the plaque at this source: https://www.hometowncountrymusic.com/dolly-parton-celebrates-100-million-records-sold/)

Here are 14 sources for her claimed sales of 100 million records:
 * https://www.rollingstone.com/music/music-lists/20-insanely-great-dolly-parton-songs-only-hardcore-fans-know-70831/
 * https://www.hometowncountrymusic.com/dolly-parton-celebrates-100-million-records-sold/
 * https://www.visitmusiccity.com/walkoffame/stars/dolly-parton.html
 * https://www.reuters.com/article/us-people-dolly-parton-comic-book/country-star-dolly-parton-gets-her-own-comic-book-idUSKBN2BA28V
 * https://mmusicmag.com/m/2014/06/dolly-parton-2/
 * https://www.geo.tv/latest/340735-dolly-parton-gets-her-own-comic-book
 * https://www.today.com/popculture/dolly-partons-75-birthday-here-are-8-reasons-we-love-t206026
 * https://visitsevierville.com/dollyParton.aspx
 * https://www.chicagotribune.com/sd-et-radar-dolly-0922-story.html
 * http://www.cmt.com/news/1727361/dolly-parton-10-prime-hits/
 * https://www.imglicensing.com/client-portfolio/dolly-parton/

Now, I know that an artist such as Parton who has been releasing music since the 1960s must have 20 percent of her claimed sales backed up by certifications. In recent years Parton's certifications have increased enough to verify 20 percent of her claimed 100 million. Her total verifiable records from certifications is 21,520,000.

The breakdown of this is:
 * RIAA: 16,550,000 (https://www.riaa.com/gold-platinum/?tab_active=default-award&se=parton#search_section)
 * BPI: 3,900,000 (https://www.bpi.co.uk/brit-certified/)
 * Music Canada: 1,070,000 (https://musiccanada.com/gold-platinum/?_gp_search=Parton_)
 * New Zealand: 15,000 (https://nztop40.co.nz/chart/albums?chart=3262 (Trio) and https://nztop40.co.nz/chart/albums?chart=2447 (The Very Best of Dolly Parton))

Further breakdown:

RIAA 16,550,000

Title / Highest award / No. of units / Date of certification / Type
 * "Here You Come Again"	GOLD	500,000	2/1/1978	SINGLE
 * Here You Come Again	PLATINUM	1,000,000	4/28/1978	ALBUM
 * The Best of Dolly Parton	GOLD	500,000	6/12/1978	ALBUM
 * Heartbreaker	GOLD	500,000	8/16/1978	ALBUM
 * Great Balls of Fire	GOLD	500,000	11/13/1979	ALBUM
 * 9 to 5 and Odd Jobs	GOLD	500,000	3/6/1981	ALBUM
 * "Islands in the Stream"	PLATINUM	1,000,000	12/7/1983	SINGLE
 * Greatest Hits	PLATINUM	1,000,000	10/7/1986	ALBUM
 * Trio	PLATINUM	1,000,000	7/14/1987	ALBUM
 * Once Upon a Christmas	PLATINUM x 2	2,000,000	10/25/1989	ALBUM
 * White Limozeen	GOLD	500,000	12/6/1991	ALBUM
 * Eagle When She Flies	PLATINUM	1,000,000	8/4/1992	ALBUM
 * Slow Dancing with the Moon	PLATINUM	1,000,000	10/5/1993	ALBUM
 * Honky Tonk Angels	GOLD	500,000	1/5/1994	ALBUM
 * Home for Christmas	GOLD	500,000	12/27/1994	ALBUM
 * Trio II	GOLD	500,000	11/15/2001	ALBUM
 * An Evening with Dolly	GOLD	50,000	5/11/2012	VIDEO LONGFORM
 * "When I Get Where I’m Going"	PLATINUM	1,000,000	7/15/2015	SINGLE
 * "9 to 5"	PLATINUM	1,000,000	9/25/2017	SINGLE
 * "Jolene"	GOLD	500,000	9/25/2017	SINGLE
 * "I Will Always Love You"	GOLD	500,000	9/25/2017	SINGLE
 * "Islands in the Stream"	GOLD	500,000	9/25/2017	SINGLE
 * "There Was Jesus"	GOLD	500,000	1/13/2021	SINGLE

BPI 3,900,000

Title / Highest award / No. of units / Date of certification / Type
 * Both Sides	GOLD	100,000	11/10/1978	ALBUM
 * Little Sparrow	SILVER	60,000	4/12/2001	ALBUM
 * A Life in Music: Ultimate Collection	GOLD	100,000	7/22/2013	ALBUM
 * Gold: The Hits Collection	SILVER	60,000	7/22/2013	ALBUM
 * Greatest Hits	GOLD	100,000	7/22/2013	ALBUM
 * Love Songs	SILVER	60,000	7/22/2013	ALBUM
 * The Best of Dolly Parton	SILVER	60,000	7/22/2013	ALBUM
 * Ultimate Dolly Parton	PLATINUM	300,000	7/22/2013	ALBUM
 * Blue Smoke: The Best of Dolly Parton	PLATINUM	300,000	12/12/2014	ALBUM
 * Pure & Simple	SILVER	60,000	6/22/2018	ALBUM
 * "9 to 5"	PLATINUM	600,000	8/10/2018	SINGLE
 * "Jolene"	PLATINUM	600,000	3/29/2019	SINGLE
 * The Real Dolly Parton	GOLD	100,000	3/29/2019	ALBUM
 * "Islands in the Stream"	PLATINUM	600,000	9/20/2019	SINGLE
 * The Very Best of Dolly Parton	PLATINUM x 2	600,000	11/13/2020	ALBUM
 * "I Will Always Love You"	SILVER	200,000	12/25/2020	SINGLE

Music Canada 1,070,000

Title / Highest award / No. of units / Date of certification / Type
 * Here You Come Again	GOLD	50,000	3/1/1978	ALBUM
 * Heartbreaker	GOLD	50,000	12/1/1978	ALBUM
 * 9 to 5 and Odd Jobs	GOLD	50,000	4/1/1981	ALBUM
 * "9 to 5"	GOLD	75,000	4/1/1981	SINGLE
 * "Islands in the Stream"	PLATINUM	100,000	1/1/1984	SINGLE
 * Greatest Hits	GOLD	50,000	1/1/1985	ALBUM
 * Once Upon a Christmas	PLATINUM x 5	500,000	4/13/1988	ALBUM
 * Eagle When She Flies	GOLD	50,000	11/21/1991	ALBUM
 * Slow Dancing with the Moon	GOLD	50,000	9/24/1993	ALBUM
 * Honky Tonk Angels	GOLD	50,000	4/11/1994	ALBUM
 * Live and Well	GOLD	5,000	11/4/2004	DVD
 * "When I Get Where I’m Going"	GOLD	40,000	1/30/2019	SINGLE

New Zealand 15,000

Title / Highest award / No. of units / Date of certification / Type
 * Trio GOLD 7,500 1987 ALBUM
 * The Very Best of Dolly Parton GOLD 7,500 2014 ALBUM

Since Parton's claimed sales of 100 million records needs to be verified by at least a minimum of 20% certifications (20,000,000) and her current verifiable certifications show a total of 21,520,000 (the required 20%, plus an additional 1.5 million), I see no reason to not add her to this list.

Thanks! Benjichilders (talk) 21:16, 16 April 2021 (UTC)


 * You have added her to the list with unreliable source and your certified units are incorrect. We no longer add artists to the list with inflated sales figures that are far apart from their certified sales, we only downgrade artists with inflated figures if they were once put up on the list. You should go over the Definitions on the main page for information to see how the list is operated. You can find Parton's detailed certified sales on this file. All that said, Parton shouldn't be added the list unless she's reached 30 million with her certified sales at the least, currently she's at 22 million.--Harout72 (talk) 00:29, 17 April 2021 (UTC)

Lady gaga
Her australian certification at higher. She got last Week 3x platinum for Always remember us this way in Australia And she has more sales. She sold over 150 milion. Just look the certification — Preceding unsigned comment added by 188.153.132.57 (talk) 11:56, 24 April 2021 (UTC)

Is this reliable enough for Alicia Keys?
https://mena24tv.com/en/2020/09/08/alicia-keys-uses-family-photo-to-encourage-people-to-spread-love/ Harout. What do you think? ThanksPolitsi (talk) 21:59, 23 April 2021 (UTC)
 * I think it's reliable enough for temporary use. I'll put her up on the list this weekend.--Harout72 (talk) 12:22, 24 April 2021 (UTC)
 * Okay thanks, I Will change it once I found the better one. So now, only Ariana Grande still out of the list. I think she will never be on the list since I can not crack her Wiki Biography because the editor in there. Politsi (talk) 16:55, 24 April 2021 (UTC)

Photo order discussion
I was reverted by for putting the pictures in the first section in list order (i.e. the Beatles first, Rhianna last); however, the revert was technically correct, as the hidden comment says to put in the order of certified sales. I missed the nuance of the comment and assumed the list was in the same order. In any case - I think having the list and photos in different order is irrational and confusing. After all, unless you are editing, you cannot see the hidden comment, and no one is going to see the explanation. But more than that, what possible reason could there be to have the two different standards? The two should match. This is not an argument about which measurement (claimed vs certified) is more important, but rather about uniformity. Based upon the high number of archives, I assume this may have been discussed before, but I think it's time to re-examine. ‡ Єl Cid of Valencia talk  13:33, 26 April 2021 (UTC)
 * The order of images was decided to be based on certified sales, because the certified sales, in general, illustrate more accurate sales for artists than the claimed sales do. Claimed figures are often inflated by record companies for promotional purposes. However, ever since the certifying bodies have begun counting streaming towards certification thresholds, the certified sales for newer artists no longer hold the same accuracy of sales as they did once. If others believe that we should place the order of images based on claimed sales for all tables because the streaming generated certified tend to inflate the certified sales of newer artists, then we can do that.--Harout72 (talk) 13:57, 26 April 2021 (UTC)
 * Future is inevitable as we have Billboard reporting worldwide sales with combined streaming figures for albums such as Anti (11 million) and A Star Is Born (6 million) both used in their articles. This is a false impression of whole claimed sales as with certifications using streaming figures. Many of us know that issue is persistently active in the careers of newer artists (or commercially active in the streaming era) such as Drake, Rihanna, Swift etc in large quantities. And this will eventually flood the discography of older artists (or technically applied now to many of them) because is a criteria applied in many databases nowadays and they will keep certifying works for both past and newer artists. However one of the differences, if certain works receive retroactively certifications/update with streaming figures, maybe physical sales were also strong for many of those past works. If I can choose I would preferred ordering the list with claimed sales and also el cid, el campeador expressed good points. --Apoxyomenus (talk) 17:31, 26 April 2021 (UTC)

Alabama (Out of the list)
https://www.billboard.com/articles/columns/country/6693439/alabama-southern-drawl-interview Harout. In 2015, According to Billboard. Alabama only sold 70 million records. Their major certified sales only in 2 countries and only 48m. I think we should put them out of the list. What do you think? Thanks. Politsi (talk) 19:40, 26 April 2021 (UTC)
 * Why should we remove them if they have 48 million in certified units? The artists that should be downgraded or removed are artists like Barry White for example, with only 22 million certified units yet listed with a claimed figure of 100 million.--Harout72 (talk) 20:51, 26 April 2021 (UTC)
 * Okay then. If it's unnecessary to removed Alabama. I supporting it. As for Barry White, when I found a lower claim for him. We Will downgraded or removed him from the list. Politsi (talk) 21:50, 26 April 2021 (UTC)

Miley Cyrus
https://www.bbc.co.uk/teach/bring-the-noise/seven-child-music-stars/zk66jhv Harout. In case if Cyrus enough already to be in the list. Can we use this source to support 75m for her? I'm not sure enough. Thanks. Politsi (talk) 08:01, 29 April 2021 (UTC)
 * That's reliable enough for temporary use, but I'm gonna wait for Cyrus to reach 70 million with her certified sales before I put her up on the list, since most of her recent certs are streaming generated. She's so far at 58 million.--Harout72 (talk) 12:32, 29 April 2021 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 29 April 2021
Add 2 million to Lionel Richie, David Bowie and the Police's US sales as their songs appeared on the Wedding Singer soundtrack which was certified double platinum in 2003. Stevehurleywoof (talk) 21:48, 29 April 2021 (UTC)


 * Unless 50% of the soundtrack is performed by listed artists, it doesn't qualify for addition.--Harout72 (talk) 22:16, 29 April 2021 (UTC)

Linkin Park's certification in Argentina
Hello Harout71, hope you doing well. I just discovered that Linkin Park has a total certified sales of 100,000 units in Argentina in which they include:

Hybrid Theory: Platinum (60,000) Reanimation: Gold (20,000) Meteora: Gold (20,000)

If you want to check it out you can found them here in the archived database of CAPIF.

https://archive.is/20110706084844/http://www.capif.org.ar/Default.asp?PerDesde_MM=0&PerDesde_AA=0&PerHasta_MM=0&PerHasta_AA=0&interprete=&album=&LanDesde_MM=1&LanDesde_AA=1980&LanHasta_MM=12&LanHasta_AA=2010&Galardon=O&Tipo=1&ACCION2=+Buscar+&ACCION=Buscar&CO=5&CODOP=ESOP

https://web.archive.org/web/20110820130534/http://www.capif.org.ar/Default.asp?PerDesde_MM=0&PerDesde_AA=0&PerHasta_MM=0&PerHasta_AA=0&interprete=&album=&LanDesde_MM=1&LanDesde_AA=1980&LanHasta_MM=12&LanHasta_AA=2010&Galardon=O&Tipo=1&ACCION2=+Buscar+&ACCION=Buscar&CO=5&CODOP=ESOP

Thanks :) Moh8213 (talk) 12:39, 3 May 2021 (UTC)
 * I added it. I had 88,000 on my file. Hybrid Theory was listed on my file for 40,000, it should've been 60,000 as it's released in 2000. They also have one Platinum DVD for "Live in Texas" for 8,000. Thanks for bringing it to my attention.--Harout72 (talk) 22:39, 3 May 2021 (UTC)

You're welcome. I'd like if you'd re-check their total sales in Brazil, to me it came up 645,000 units tho I could be wrong. Hope you check that up too, thanks. Moh8213 (talk) 22:59, 3 May 2021 (UTC)
 * I actually had Live in Texas listed as Gold on my file, it's been certified Platinum for 125,000 units there in Brazil. I corrected it both on the file and list. Here is the file for Linkin Park. If you come across something else that's missing, let me know.--Harout72 (talk) 00:26, 4 May 2021 (UTC)

I've just checked it out and ngl you did a pretty good job arranging it, tho I found one needs an update and one's missing.

In Spain, the single In the End is certified Gold (25,000) in 2017 and here's a source: https://www.elportaldemusica.es/single/linkin-park-in-the-end

And in Denmark the album Meteora is certified 3× Platinum (60,000) in 2017 and here's a source: http://www.hitlisten.nu/default.asp?w=30&y=2017&list=a40

Other than that I didn't found anything missing. Moh8213 (talk) 10:06, 4 May 2021 (UTC)


 * Ok I added those also, thanks.--Harout72 (talk) 12:47, 4 May 2021 (UTC)

Oh forget something, their 5th album Living Things was certified Gold (7,500) in New Zealand, it wasn't added in your files. Thanks. Moh8213 (talk) 13:51, 5 May 2021 (UTC)

The Doors Certification in Italy and France
the american rock band the doors in Italy collected 215,000 certified sales and not 170,000. The Doors debut album 50,000, Morrison Hotel 25,000, The very best of (2007) 80,000, Light My Fire single 25,000, Riders On The Storm single 35,000, instead in France it certifies almost 3,000,000 million and not 1,900,000 since only the album L.A. Woman certifies 945,800 — Preceding unsigned comment added by 95.246.157.208 (talk) 13:25, 6 May 2021 (UTC)
 * The Doors' The Very Best Of is certified Platinum by FIMI in 2013 when the Platinum level for albums was 60,000 units. You can find The Doors' detailed certified sales here on this file. The French certified sales are correct.--Harout72 (talk) 22:00, 6 May 2021 (UTC)

sorry because this source https://www.infodisc.fr/Ventes_Albums_Tout_Temps.php?debut=150 says L.A. Woman in France sold 945,800 units and not 600,000. 95.246.157.208 (talk) 11:58, 7 May 2021 (UTC)
 * When it gets certified for higher certification levels, then we'll update it. What you're pointing out is a sales figure not certified sales. Our column on the list is for certified sales.--Harout72 (talk) 13:11, 7 May 2021 (UTC)

Drake to 200m
https://www.thefader.com/2018/06/29/drake-most-certified-digital-singles-history/amp Harout. His certified sales already hit at 360m. I think it is time for him to enter the 200m club. I have no reliable source to support it yet. But we could use this source from a magazine. I think it's okay to use temporary for his 200m claim. Is it right? Thanks. Politsi (talk) 12:23, 6 May 2021 (UTC)
 * If we don't have a reliable source, then we don't have to move him up on the list. Drake is barely selling records, don't let his high certified sales fool you, his certifications are in some cases 90% streaming generated. In other words, if one of his singles reach a Platinum level in the US, the actual sales for that single might or might have sold 100,000 in digital downloads. As it stands right now, his actual sales might barely be in the neighborhood of 100-120 million.--Harout72 (talk) 12:50, 6 May 2021 (UTC)
 * Well then we should let him remain with only 150m claim like we did for him previously. I Will bring him back to his 150m claim if needed. Politsi (talk) 14:03, 6 May 2021 (UTC)
 * He's ok where he is right now on the list.--Harout72 (talk) 13:12, 7 May 2021 (UTC)

The Rolling Stones
Hi, The Rolling Stones have sold over 240 million albums worldwide and not 200 million https://www.forbes.com/sites/jesselawrence/2014/12/30/with-touring-still-a-focal-point-the-rolling-stones-acdc-and-u2-fight-for-top-honors-in-rock-and-roll-history/?sh=1c10ef79a569 95.246.157.208 (talk) 13:09, 9 May 2021 (UTC)

The Doors certification
Hello, I noticed under The Doors certification of total sales 80 million records sold worldwide that uses a link extrapolated from the film directed by Tom Di Cillo elaborated in 2008 and published in the cinema in January 2009 an interview with Ray Manzarek in 2010 that states that the Doors at that time had more than 80 million sales in the world, the problem is that the link and the interview are 12 years old, I don't think it is appropriate to keep a link that old since the Doors have totaled 100 million record sales worldwide.https://www.bbc.com/news/entertainment-arts-22604798 https://www.cbsnews.com/news/ray-manzarek-founding-member-of-the-doors-dies-at-74/ The Doors total available certified 48.4 million, but have total sales of 80 million records sold worldwide. Keeping in mind that various artists have very low and lower certified sales than The Doors, but they have total sales of 100 million records sold worldwide, it seems to me a contradiction, for example:

Bob Dylan total available certified 46,6 million (Claimed sales 100 million)

Def Leopard total available certified 42,6 million (Claimed sales 100 million)

Cher total available certified 42,2 million (Claimed sales 100 million)

Genesis total available certified 40,3 million (Claimed sales 100 million)

David Bowie total available certified 38,4 million (Claimed sales 100 million)

Stevie Wonder total available certified 37,7 million (Claimed sales 100 million)

James Taylor total available certified 36,5 million (Claimed sales 100 million)

Olivia Newton-John total available certified 35,9 million (Claimed sales 100 million)

Tina Turner total available certified 35,3 million (Claimed sales 100 million)

Linda Ronstadt total available certified 33,2 million (Claimed sales 100 million)

The Beach Boys total available certified 32,2 million (Claimed sales 100 million)

Donna Summer total available certified 31,2 million (Claimed sales 100 million)

The Who total available certified 28,2 million (Claimed sales 100 million)

Barry White total available certified 22,2 million (Claimed sales 100 million) 95.246.157.208 (talk) 01:09, 10 May 2021 (UTC)
 * Your sources speak of albums sales, not overall records sales. If you could provide a reliable source that speaks of 100 million records, moving The Doors up on the list would be considered.--Harout72 (talk) 12:46, 10 May 2021 (UTC)

Hi I found this source directly from the official site and it seems reliable what you say.https://thedoors.com/news/the-doors-x-roxy-collection-has-landed 95.246.157.208 (talk) 20:00, 10 May 2021 (UTC)
 * We need a third party reliable source to make the change.--Harout72 (talk) 21:16, 10 May 2021 (UTC)
 * Helping IP, I found a couple of sources showing 100 million "records" for them: IrishTimes or Reuters. Although seem to be circular after member Ray Manzarek's death. --Apoxyomenus (talk) 23:03, 10 May 2021 (UTC)
 * I also agree. The Doors should be on the 100m club. Politsi (talk) 10:43, 11 May 2021 (UTC)
 * I moved The Doors up using one of the sources that states 100 million records.--Harout72 (talk) 12:53, 11 May 2021 (UTC)

Thanks to everyone for the help.95.246.157.208 (talk) 15:13, 11 May 2021 (UTC)

Source for Luke Bryan
https://www.express.co.uk/entertainment/music/1425521/Luke-Bryan-children-does-country-singer-Luke-Bryan-have-children-wife-evg Harout. I think there is something wrong with the source for Bryan from Fox2now that I add for him last week. It seems the contain for his "75m claim" is missing. If you also see something wrong with that source. I will put the source from Daily Express for temporary. Thanks Politsi (talk) 10:15, 12 May 2021 (UTC)
 * The 75 million records seems to be in the content, it's in the first paragraph.--Harout72 (talk) 12:43, 12 May 2021 (UTC)

Spice Girls
Harout. Need your help if you have a time to collected the girl group's certified sales. Just in case if they able again to be on the list. https://www.bbc.com/news/entertainment-arts-33816413 Thanks Politsi (talk) 09:59, 12 May 2021 (UTC)
 * They need 50.7 million certified units to be listed with 75 million records, they so far have 45.1 million certified units.--Harout72 (talk) 13:04, 12 May 2021 (UTC)

The Doors certification in Spain
Hi, I found this link where it indicates that The Doors soundtrack album of Oliver Stone's film is certified gold in Spain with 50,000 copies, so the total sales in Spain alone should be 350,000 and not 300,000.http://www.mediafire.com/file/x263f6daopkswo8/Spanish_certifications_for_1979-1990.pdf/file 95.246.157.208 (talk) 15:06, 13 May 2021 (UTC)
 * That's added to the list. See this file, whatever you see on the file is added to the list.--Harout72 (talk) 13:31, 13 May 2021 (UTC)

ok, I would simply like to know if the Link I put is true or not, since it bears the words 1991, The Doors (B.S.O. DE LA PELÌCULA) WEA certified gold, while the one you indicated to me only brings: The Doors debut album certified gold, with 50,000 units, Morrison Hotel Platinum, with 100,000 units, THERE. Woman platinum, with 100,000 units The Best of the doors gold, with 50,000 units, but missing as I told you The Doors (B.S.O. DE LA PELÌCULA) WEA certified gold.

http://www.mediafire.com/file/x263f6daopkswo8/Spanish_certifications_for_1979-1990.pdf/file 95.246.157.208 (talk) 16:05, 13 May 2021 (UTC)
 * I have the page number and the year indicated next to the awards on my file. If you're speaking of the Gold on page 929, certified Gold in 1991, then that's been added. Having (B.S.O. DE LA PELÌCULA) on the file is unnecessary. Those scans for Spain you're looking at are scanned and put together by me as I own a copy of it, so I doubt I have missed anything.--Harout72 (talk) 14:14, 13 May 2021 (UTC)

Rihanna
Her face is first in line as one of the best selling artists of all time. This is NOT true. Just because in recent times they are able to tabulate digital downloads, it doesn't mean she a best seller. And even using the digital downloads, they are SINGLES, not albums. On the RIAA website for the US (her biggest market), she is listed at #106 in album sales (behind Jimmy Buffet). She does sell singles, but to count singles the same as albums is bizarre and misleading and makes this page inaccurate (basically useless). Calling everything a "unit" and weighing everything equally is not equal. Wikipedia really needs to check this. This is misleading the general public and should clarify that she's a singles seller maybe (like the RIAA does), but albums sales that are about 10 times more valuable (#106 in her top market) does not put at the same level as some of the others. I love Rihanna, nothing against her, she's definitely one of my favorite artists, this is just simply inaccurate and definitely misleading. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2603:7000:483f:cd59:925:d18d:1cec:2921 (talk) 14:28, 13 May 2021 (UTC)


 * I definitely agree that different mediums of music sales should be weighted differently. In the physical era of music (before mid-2000s), people usually bought 1 album instead of 3 physical singles, because 3 singles had the same price as an album. This created only one sale. However, in the digital era of music (after mid-2000s), the price of a digital single is on average 10 times less than the price of an album. Thus, people tend to buy 3-4 digital singles instead of an album. This creates 3-4 sales. This creates an unfair advantage for newer artists such as Rihanna or Taylor Swift. This also makes physical single sales more weighted than digital single sales, because physical singles were more expensive.
 * Thus, this is the scale that should be used for calculating sales:
 * 1 sale = 1 album = 1 music video = 10/3 physical singles = 10/1.5 digital singles = 1500 audio streams = 11,750 video streams
 * You can find more information over here: https://chartmasters.org/2016/03/the-commensurate-sales-to-popularity-concept-cspc-introduction/ — Preceding unsigned comment added by 73.241.160.44 (talk) 19:16, 14 May 2021 (UTC)

The Carpenters & Earth Wind Fire
I see there is a raise of certified sales from two act in the 90m Club in recent years. The Carpenters (46m. 1969) and Earth, Wind, & Fire (43.8m. 1971). Both of them have a high certified sales for old artists. I Will bring them back to 100m club. Politsi (talk) 11:39, 16 May 2021 (UTC)
 * The Carpenters are already listed with 90 million, I don't believe there is a need to upgrade their claimed figure by another 10 million, unless they're over 50 million with their certified sales. The same actually goes to Earth, Wind & Fire.--Harout72 (talk) 13:49, 16 May 2021 (UTC)
 * I still feel they must be at 100m club. Especially how good their certified sales for an early beginner. I need others opinion. Thanks. Politsi (talk) 14:07, 16 May 2021 (UTC)

Journey
Their music chart begin since 1975 and with more than 64m certified sales in five different countries. They are definitely should be at the 100m club. I will bring them also. Politsi (talk) 12:07, 16 May 2021 (UTC)
 * Journey have had most of their success in the US and they've begun charting in 1975, the 100 million would be a stretch for them, but I would agree with 80 million if there is such a figure.--Harout72 (talk) 13:36, 16 May 2021 (UTC)
 * 80m figure. I agree with that. Okay then. Politsi (talk) 14:10, 16 May 2021 (UTC)

Meat Loaf and Foreigner
Meat Loaf and Foreigner started their music chart since 1977. And their certified sales are impressive. Meat Loaf. 45.3m and Foreigner 50m. I will bring them go inside 100m club. Politsi (talk) 11:50, 16 May 2021 (UTC)
 * There are things you have to consider before upgrading the claimed figures. Foreigners for example, have had most of their success in the US and they have begun charting after 1975, after that year our key markets have had certification system, so they're fine where they are. Meat Loaf also has begun charting after 1975, so he's also fine where he is for now.--Harout72 (talk) 13:29, 16 May 2021 (UTC)
 * I still feel they should be at 100m club. I'd like to hear other's opinion. Thanks Politsi (talk) 14:18, 16 May 2021 (UTC)

Van Halen
This band music chart since 1978 and they have more than 64m in certified sales. They are definitely should be at the 100m club. I will bring them also. Politsi (talk) 12:14, 16 May 2021 (UTC)
 * Van Halen have begun charting in 1978 and they've also had most of his success in the US, they should be left where they are for now. When they reach 70 million mark with their certified sales, then I would agree with 100 million claimed figure.--Harout72 (talk) 13:42, 16 May 2021 (UTC)
 * Okay then.Politsi (talk) 14:22, 16 May 2021 (UTC)

George Michael
Begin his music career and since his death. His certified sales has been raised close to 53m. We should bring him back to 100m club. Politsi (talk) 12:17, 16 May 2021 (UTC)
 * George Michael isn't an early beginner, yes his popularity comes from all over the globe, but for now he's fine with 80 million. He'd at least have to be close to 65 million with certified sales in order to justify 100 million figure.--Harout72 (talk) 13:45, 16 May 2021 (UTC)
 * Okay then, I feel we should wait him to reach at least 62m. Politsi (talk) 14:24, 16 May 2021 (UTC)

Johnny Cash
Cash music chart begin since 1956 and he has close to 32m in certified sales. He has a better certified units than Barry White, The Who, and Donna Summer who are younger than him. I will bring Cash to 100m club. Politsi (talk) 12:00, 16 May 2021 (UTC)
 * Can I understand why you believe that Johnny cash should be moved up with 32 million certified units, when we have discussed that Barry White and all others with low certified units in the 100 million section should be downgraded once we'll have located lower claimed figures?--Harout72 (talk) 13:32, 16 May 2021 (UTC)
 * There will never be any lower figure for Barry White and others. The 100m figure will remain on them. That why's we should bring Cash to the 100m club to avoid any confusing in the list and Cash is a very early beginner (since 1956). We should hear others opinion for this. Politsi (talk) 14:00, 16 May 2021 (UTC)
 * There should be no confusion when we clearly state in the definitions This list uses claimed figures that are closest to artists' available certified units. We should consider removing Barry White from the list altogether, because there is no way he could have sold 100 million records considering that he's begun charting in 1973 and has only 16 million certified units in the US.--Harout72 (talk) 14:08, 16 May 2021 (UTC)
 * We Should remove Barry White from the list to avoid any confusing and make the list more look equally. Politsi (talk) 14:14, 16 May 2021 (UTC)
 * Yes, I agree also.--Harout72 (talk) 14:19, 16 May 2021 (UTC)

Thanks. Politsi (talk) 14:50, 16 May 2021 (UTC)

The Who
Harout. We should considered this band to be out of the list. I feel some relief after seeing Barry White's name removed and I think the same situation should go to The Who since they are not reach 30m certified. Let's get them out also. Politsi (talk) 03:06, 17 May 2021 (UTC)
 * Politsi, The Who are early beginners, 1965. Even the UK and France, two key markets didn't have a certification system until 1973. And Germany and Canada didn't have a certification system until 1975. So The Who have gone selling lots of their records in all those markets without getting certified. I think their 22 million certified units from the US shows that their certified sales could have easily added up to 45-50 million if those aforementioned and some other medium sized markets had certification system since 1965.--Harout72 (talk) 03:54, 17 May 2021 (UTC)
 * I understand. Thanks for that explaination. Politsi (talk) 04:56, 17 May 2021 (UTC)

Queen's Claimed Sales
Apologies for being inexperienced here, but I believe Queen should be moved up into the >250 million section. The current source being used to cite Queen's claimed sales as 200 million is an article from the Herald of Glasgow published back in 2015. Since then, numerous credible sources have claimed that Queen has sold 300 million records worldwide, some of which including:

https://www.forbes.com/sites/simonthompson/2018/12/10/queens-bohemian-rhapsody-is-officially-the-worlds-most-streamed-song/?sh=fd28c7cc1f0a (4th paragraph down)

https://www.ocregister.com/2018/11/02/heres-how-the-song-bohemian-rhapsody-became-queens-biggest-hit/ (2nd paragraph down)

https://www.mirror.co.uk/3am/celebrity-news/rock-you-queen-double-earnings-6003124

300 million in claimed sales would fall right in line with their 166 million certified sales, especially considering their first song charted in 1973. Led Zeppelin, which by all means is comparable time-wise, has 141 million certified sales, but their claimed sales figures are 300 million. According to the sources provided above, Queen should be roughly around those numbers.

I'm just interested in what sort of consensus should be reached regarding whether the above cited sources warrants Queen be moved up into the 250 million or more section. (I apologize for being ignorant on alot of this, I've just started editing today and I'm still learning the ropes)

ChimChamIt'sAScam05 (talk) 22:16, 11 May 2021 (UTC)
 * Queen's certified sales should grow by another 20 million units in order for us to consider the 300 million. As it stands right now, we could add a reliable source that claims 250 million records for them. Let me also add that sources should speak of records sales (albums, singles, videos), not just albums as Forbes for example states. Also, sources should speak of one solid figure, not Queen has sold between 150 and 300 million as OC Register says.--Harout72 (talk) 03:29, 12 May 2021 (UTC)
 * Harout. I also think that Queen should be at the 250m club but we still keep their 200m claim until their certified sales close to 180m. However, reliable source for their 250m claim is very difficult to find in this current situation. But please look at this source https://www.indiewire.com/2019/06/rocketman-bohemian-rhapsody-elton-john-freddie-mercury-box-office-biopic-1202146662/ it was released by IndieWire which is a news online for film industry, but the website is part of Penske Media and is a News Media organization which is also released Rolling Stone magazine. I think we could use that source for Queen's 250m claim. What do you think? Thanks. Politsi (talk) 12:35, 12 May 2021 (UTC)
 * The statement about the records sales reads in an uncertain/ambiguous way: "rough estimates have John at around 300 million units sold, while Freddie Mercury and company sold around 250 million". The part for Queen sounds more like about Freddie Mercury's records sales than Queen. The 250 million is a figure that Queen definitely deserves to be listed with as they've begun charting in 1973, but we need a clear/solid statement for that number. Anyways, once Queen reach 180-185 million, we could use the 300 million for them.--Harout72 (talk) 12:57, 12 May 2021 (UTC)
 * I think the article is clear that the 250m sales belong to the Queen. Because it was stated in the paragraph "Elton John was as big a draw as QUEEN" and then continue with "Freddy and company" and not only Freddy himself. It's clear that 250m claim belong to the Queen. For me, it's okay to use that source only for temporary to support their 250m claim but we still keep their 200m claim below their new 250m claim. What do you think?. I need your final consideration. Thanks Politsi (talk) 16:03, 12 May 2021 (UTC)
 * Well, Freddie Mercury seems to have released solo material also. So, the main problem I'm seeing is the way wording is structured: while Freddie Mercury and company sold around 250 million. Is the writer trying to say that Freddie Mercury has sold 250 million records as a solo artists and also what he's sold with the Queen combined, or is he trying to say that the Queen have sold 250 million units? Seems a bit unclear. I personally don't mind using the source but I don't want to attract future futile discussions. What do others think?--Harout72 (talk) 21:37, 12 May 2021 (UTC)
 * I would agree with using the 250 million source in place of a 300 million source, unless we find any sources proving they had 180 million sales, which I haven't found through my searches yet. Maybe we should put the claimed sales within the 250 - 300 million range, rather than 200 million. That would work as well. It's your choice. --ChimChamIt'sAScam05 (talk) 21:44, 12 May 2021 (UTC)

Using 300m claim for Queen is not right at this time since most of their current new certified sales come from streaming. 250m-200m is the best sales for them now. If there is no complaint within the next days. I will put Queen to 250m club by using that source while still keep their 200m sales. Politsi (talk) 12:24, 13 May 2021 (UTC)
 * If you are still considering moving Queen up to the 250m club, please notify me. There seems to be no recent substantial criticism towards the 250 million source (other than Harout's comment).--ChimChamIt'sAScam05 (talk) 20:39, 17 May 2021 (UTC)
 * The clarity about the sales isn't clear at all in that source, I'm hesitant about using the source. If we can't find another source for 250 million records, then we might as well wait until Queen collects some 20 more certified units, then we can remove the 200 million claimed figure and move them up with the 300 million.--Harout72 (talk) 12:51, 18 May 2021 (UTC)
 * I'm looking into the RIAA certifications for Queen in the US. The 80 million US sales figure was retrieved back in 2011, which is likely pretty outdated considering the decade of natural growth and the popularity of the Bohemian Rhapsody movie. Thanks for the help.--ChimChamIt'sAScam05 (talk) 9:39, 18 May 2021 (UTC)
 * RIAA's recent certifications are from March and April 2021.--Harout72 (talk) 13:50, 18 May 2021 (UTC)

Well, I think we should considered other source which is more clear and better. As someone who's responsible to make many artist to be place in the list by using a prestigious reliable source. I feel responsible to make sure that all source must be clear and prestigious. Let's find another source or wait until Queen hit 175-180m in certified sales. Politsi (talk) 15:04, 18 May 2021 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 23 May 2021
2A02:8071:4590:1600:C155:CF29:1E25:769C (talk) 06:15, 23 May 2021 (UTC)

Eminem and EdSheeran have to put in the 250+mio List
 * Red question icon with gradient background.svg Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. Run n Fly (talk) 06:21, 23 May 2021 (UTC)

Edit request: Consider Ariana Grande
Ariana Grande could be considered part of this page as one of the best-selling music artists because she has sold over 80 million certified units. Here is evidence to support this figure from the RIAA website: Ariana Grande total RIAA Units Ariana Grande Digital Singles units Ariana Grande RIAA album units

The first link above shows all her RIAA certifications (albums and singles) and together this sums up to the total of over 80 million units. The second link is the amount of digital singles units she has sold and the third link is the total album units she has sold. 108.34.228.150 (talk) 03:46, 4 June 2021 (UTC)


 * RIAA certified units are not the same as record sales because they also include streams. She has enough certified worldwide units (around 120M I believe) to be on the list, but there needs to be a reliable source claiming she has sold 75M+ records worldwide for her to be added. Dries00 (talk) 19:25, 4 June 2021 (UTC)


 * Red question icon with gradient background.svg Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. Ben  ❯❯❯  Talk  17:51, 4 June 2021 (UTC)

Black Eyed Peas
Hey Harout, hope you doing well, I'd like if you can send me the file for The Black Eyed Peas, thanks. Moh8213 (talk) 15:44, 25 May 2021 (UTC)
 * Here you are with the file for Black Eyed Peas.--Harout72 (talk) 21:48, 25 May 2021 (UTC)

I've checked the file and here are the stuff that either needs an update or missing from your file. https://pro-musicabr.org.br/home/certificados/?busca_artista=elephunk
 * Australia: DVD certified Gold (7,500) in 2004. https://web.archive.org/web/20200727213700/http://www.aria.com.au/pages/aria-charts-accreditations-dvd-2004.htm
 * Belgium: Monkey Business certified 2× Platinum (100,000) in 2006. https://www.ultratop.be/nl/goud-platina/2006/albums
 * Brazil: Elephunk certified Gold (50,000) in 2005 & single Girl Like Me certified Platinum (40,000) in 2021. https://pro-musicabr.org.br/home/certificados/?busca_artista=Black+Eyed+Peas+X+Shakira&busca_tipo_produto=SINGLE
 * US: Gold Singles Certifications Typo.
 * Canada: Recent singles Ritmo & Mamacita are certified 3× Platinum (240,000) & 2× Platinum (160,000) in 2020. https://musiccanada.com/gold-platinum/?_gp_search=Ritmo%20The+Black+Eyed+Peas
 * Mexico: the album Elephunk was released in June 2003 hence the correct figure is (150,000) not (100,000), Mamacita is certified Platinum+Gold (90,000) in Dec 2020. https://amprofon.com.mx/es/pages/certificaciones.php
 * Sweden: Since Where Is the Love was released in May 2003, the correct figure for the single is 30,000 not 20,000. https://web.archive.org/web/20110616145600/http://www.ifpi.se/wp/wp-content/uploads/ar-20042.pdf
 * Spain: Ritmo certified 4× Platinum (160,000) in 2020. https://www.elportaldemusica.es/single/the-black-eyed-peas-x-j-balvin-ritmo-bad-boys-for-life

Other than that so far I haven't found anything else that seems incorrect. Thanks. Moh8213 (talk) 20:28, 27 May 2021 (UTC)
 * Australia's DVD: I added it.
 * Belgium: The album Monkey Business is certified Platinum for 30,000 units there. The first line is a typo, should be Gold. For their levels in 2005 see this here (page 23).
 * Brazil: Not sure why Elephunk doesn't come up here with the rest of their certifications, but the Gold level for 2003 International album is 50,000 units. I added the Platinum for "Girl Like Me".
 * US: Initial certification levels in the US were Gold=100,000, Platinum=200,000 units. Those levels were kept until the beginning of September 2006. The RIAA site isn't programmed correctly to bring up the earlier levels. When those singles get certified Platinum in the future, the RIAA will apply the present levels.
 * Canada: I added both.
 * Sweden: Yes, you're right, I corrected it.
 * Spain: Used your source for 4x Platinum.--Harout72 (talk) 22:01, 27 May 2021 (UTC)

Oh that's great, though the 15,000 (Gold) and 30,000 (Platinum) certifications are for the domestic artists. For the international artists (such as the Black Eyed Peas) certifications are 25,000 (Gold) and 50,000 (Platinum). so the album Monkey Business is with 50,000 not 30,000. Moh8213 (talk) 22:56, 27 May 2021 (UTC)
 * Yup, you're right. I hope I've made the mistake of applying the domestic Platinum level only to that album title. Corrected it now.--Harout72 (talk) 23:55, 27 May 2021 (UTC)

Cool tho I don't think, it will make any difference but the album Elephunk was certified gold with sales of 23,541 in Finland https://www.ifpi.fi/tutkimukset-ja-tilastot/kulta-ja-platinalevyt/artistit/black+eyed+peas/ you can add them in your files if you want. Also have you forgot about the Mexican certifications or what? Lol Moh8213 (talk) 00:19, 28 May 2021 (UTC)

Oh shot, new discoveries. Apparently, there is a remix of the song Meet Me Halfway called Meet Me Halfway (Richard Vision Solmatic Remix)'' the remix is certified Platinum (40,000) in Spain and it's already included in your file but I've just found out that the regular of the song is certified Gold (20,000) and here are sources https://www.elportaldemusica.es/single/the-black-eyed-peas-meet-me-halfway https://www.elportaldemusica.es/single/the-black-eyed-peas-meet-me-halfway-richard-vision-solmatic-remix I've also found out their album Monkey Business &  Elephunk was certified Platinum (120,000) & (130,000) in Italy and here are sources from Music & Media & la Republica https://web.archive.org/web/20140106032032/http://www.musicaedischi.it/mdonline/7046.pdf https://ricerca.repubblica.it/repubblica/archivio/repubblica/2006/07/03/in-200-mila-san-giovanni-il-luglio.html Moh8213 (talk) 01:07, 28 May 2021 (UTC)
 * The Spanish Platinum for "Meet Me Half Way" is for the standard version, see SEMANA 33: del 16.08.2010 al 22.08.2010 at https://www.promusicae.es/listas/semanales. As for Italy, those are not certifications, they're actual sales figures, which we don't add in the column of Certified sales.--Harout72 (talk) 03:46, 28 May 2021 (UTC)

Hey Harout, Apparently, Black Eyed Peas' single Mamacita is recently certified 2× Platinum (40,000) in Poland, along with their previous certifications: Monkey Business Platinum (40,000) in 2007 and The E.N.D. Platinum (20,000) in 2010, their Polish certified sales is raised to 100,000. Moh8213 (talk) 20:38, 9 June 2021 (UTC)
 * Yup, I added it.--Harout72 (talk) 20:59, 9 June 2021 (UTC)

Shakira
Are the albums sold only albums or are singles also counted? Because in that case Shakira has sold more than 50 million albums, said by Billboard and if that we put together the sale of Hips don't lie and Waka Waka that each one says 10 million sales go to 70 million and adding the other song sales. I say that your sales can go much higher. Nice to know if you can help me and / or correct me. Link: https://www.billboard.com/articles/news/267379/shakira-the-she-wolf-billboard-cover-story AlexanderShakifan29 (talk) 17:15, 13 June 2021 (UTC)
 * The source says according to her label, not according to Billboard. Labels can say anything, the question is, could she have sold 50 million albums when her available certified sales for albums stand at 23.3 million? Doesn't look like it.--Harout72 (talk) 18:51, 13 June 2021 (UTC)

Eminem & Tupac
Hello Harout, I'd like if you can send me the files for Eminem & Tupac, thanks. Moh8213 (talk) 12:53, 19 May 2021 (UTC)
 * Here you are with Eminem file, and 2 Pac's file.--Harout72 (talk) 13:35, 19 May 2021 (UTC)

Isn't the 8 Mile Soundtrack album part of Eminem's sales?, cause if so, Em have lots of certifications from that album Eminem certification in Australia needs minor updates which includes The Eminem Show certified 2× Diamond (1,000,000) in 2021 and here's source: https://www.aria.com.au/charts/hip-hop-r-and-b-albums-chart/2021-04-19 Eminem's recent album Music to Be Murdered By is certified Gold (35,000) and here's source: https://www.aria.com.au/charts/hip-hop-r-and-b-albums-chart/2021-04-19

Though it's currently not available on the database but Eminem's album Recovery is certified 7× Platinum (560,000) in Canada, I remember seeing it once on the database but for some reason it's not available now. But here's a Neilsen Year-End music report Canada 2019 PDF https://static.billboard.com/files/pdfs/NIELSEN_2019_YEARENDreportCANADA.pdf and if you go to page 41 there you will find Top 10 best selling albums and Recovery is at number 4 with 613,000 units.

With Tupac, his single California Love certified Gold (400,000) in the UK and here's source: https://www.bpi.co.uk/award/13643-4153-1 though in your files it's listed as Silver (200,000) Other than that I didn't find anything that seems incorrect. Thanks. Moh8213 (talk) 20:14, 19 May 2021 (UTC)
 * No, the certifications for 8 Mile cannot be included because there are 16 tracks, and only 4 tracks are performed by Eminem. We need to have at least 50% of the soundtrack performed by Eminem in order to consider the inclusion of the available certifications. As for the certifications you mentioned, they have been added. As for the Canadian certification, we need to wait for Music Canada to certify it, we don't add actual sales figures in the column of the Certified Sales.--Harout72 (talk) 23:01, 19 May 2021 (UTC)

Oh alright I understand, again thanks for your time. Moh8213 (talk) 01:15, 20 May 2021 (UTC)

You're welcome for the Mariah edit. I might be wrong but I think Eminem's album The Marshall Mathers LP is certified 2× Platinum (160,000) in the Netherlands, according to the NVPI database, the album was first certified Gold and then Platinum in 2000 and again certified another Platinum in 2001. What do you think? Moh8213 (talk) 17:14, 17 June 2021 (UTC)
 * I know I've seen that, but since I wasn't sure whether it's duplicated or it's just a typo, I just decided to leave it at Platinum on my file. It's by the same label, in other words, it doesn't seem to have been released by another label and earned yet another Platinum, and it doesn't say 2x Platinum, so I feel safer to leave it at just Platinum. If in the future, NVPI certifies it 3x Platinum, then we'll update it, and that'll also tell us that they should have listed it previously 2x Platinum.--Harout72 (talk) 19:23, 17 June 2021 (UTC)

Mariah Carey
Hey Harout, it seems that Mariah Carey's total Belgian sales is 225,000 with Music Box certified 2× Platinum (100,000) in 1995, Daydream certified Platinum (50,000) in 1995, Butterfly certified Gold (25,000) in 1997, her compilation album #1's certified Gold (25,000) in 1998 (I think it was certified Platinum in some later year though I'm not sure) and Rainbow certified Gold (25,000) in 1999 Moh8213 (talk) 13:50, 17 June 2021 (UTC)
 * Yup, those seem to have been posted retroactively. I added them, the total there is 325,000 units though now. Thanks.--Harout72 (talk) 15:01, 17 June 2021 (UTC)

Oh and one more thing, since the album Rainbow was released in November 1999, the correct unit of the German certification is 300,000 not 500,000. Thanks. Moh8213 (talk) 19:49, 17 June 2021 (UTC)
 * Yup, you're right. It's corrected now.--Harout72 (talk) 20:05, 17 June 2021 (UTC)