Talk:List of best-selling video game franchises/Archive 1

Split

 * Split List of best-selling video games since it was mandated due to it being too far over the article size limit.( Article Size)-- Hrödberäht (gespräch) 23:52, 30 September 2007 (UTC)

Splitting
We are currently fixing the article. Hopefully it will be solid enough to keep it as a separate entity. -- ReyBrujo (talk) 03:38, 1 January 2008 (UTC)

Overlinking?
Concerning the table, is there really a need to link the name of a franchise in both the "Franchise name" column and the first occurrence in the text? --Silver Edge (talk) 03:18, 2 January 2008 (UTC)
 * Well, I was not going to link them, but found out that needed to link it in the Mario and Pokémon franchise since I linked to the franchises in the title, but not in the description itself, and then though to myself "If I don't link them all, someone will come here crying that I did not link their game", and decided to do it afterwards. But yes, it may not be necessary. -- ReyBrujo (talk) 03:38, 2 January 2008 (UTC)

Lemmings
I found this report (that is relatively reliable) saying the Lemmings franchise sold approximately 20m in 2003, but the press release we are using now as source from 2005 says 2005. That Gamersmark article also informs about 10m for Donkey Kong Country, which would be a franchise we still don't have in the list (it is included in the Donkey Kong one). -- ReyBrujo (talk) 20:38, 7 January 2008 (UTC)
 * Also this PDF which says 20m as well (page 5). -- ReyBrujo (talk) 20:40, 7 January 2008 (UTC)
 * Well, since I have found more interviews, I changed it to 20 million. I am guessing the press release was wrong, since the creators are presented as the guys who, besides GTA, created the 20m Lemmings franchise. -- ReyBrujo (talk) 02:56, 8 January 2008 (UTC)
 * Now I am wondering whether to add that DCK thing. The sites has archived news since 2001 (older than Kotaku and Joystiq, for instance), but has a low Alexa ranking. -- ReyBrujo (talk) 03:04, 8 January 2008 (UTC)

Bomberman
While new references say it sold 10 million, I found this 2003 Hudson paper where it says it sold 11 million in Japan alone. I am leaving the 10 million one, though, guessing it was a miscalculation (just like the 27-25m for Street Fighter). -- ReyBrujo (talk) 18:33, 8 January 2008 (UTC)

THQ franchises
The Nickelodeon franchise sold 45m, and includes the SpongeBob (which itself sold 20m) and the Avatar one (which sold 4 or 5 millions, can't remember right now the reference). They also state the Disney Pixar franchise sold 30 million, with the Cars selling 8m, The Incredibles 7m, and Finding Nemo 8m. They sure like to make things complex. I have added Cars because they talk about the "Cars franchise", but haven't added the others yet. Maybe we should create another list for franchises that include several different products, like Nickelodeon, Disney, Disney Pixar and Marvel, just as we have the originally bundled games in the other list? -- ReyBrujo (talk) 19:27, 3 January 2008 (UTC)
 * I agree, since for example, the Marvel franchise's 14.5 million most likely includes the Spider-Man franchise's 8 million. --Silver Edge (talk) 12:05, 4 January 2008 (UTC)

THQ 8K filling states "With three 30-million unit licensed franchises" We have listed Nickelodeon at 45m, Spongebob at 20m and WWE at 31m, however since Nickelodeon includes Spongebob, I wonder if there is a third THQ franchise that may have broken that mark. Apparently they publish Power Rangers games, but haven't found a source with the number of units sold for that franchise. -- ReyBrujo (talk) 03:15, 14 January 2008 (UTC)
 * Never mind, I just noticed the Pixar franchise is also published by THQ, making it the third. -- ReyBrujo (talk) 03:22, 14 January 2008 (UTC)

Zoo Tycoon
I found this reference that says it sold 6 million. Unfortunately, there is no reliable site for it (it appears it is some kind of template text for the product preview, but there is no formal press release about it). Anyone able to find it? -- ReyBrujo (talk) 20:22, 9 January 2008 (UTC)


 * Not sure, but surely it could be merged into 'rollercoaster tycoon'? Indeed, the whole 'tycoon' series should probably just be merged into one franchise... --129.234.4.10 (talk) 13:28, 24 January 2008 (UTC)
 * However, they are not the same series, as each is made by a different developer. -- ReyBrujo (talk) 14:08, 24 January 2008 (UTC)

Brain Age/Brain Training -- new sales numbers.
|"Nintendo Australia's" website says "More than 21 million people globally are training their brains with Brain Training™ and More Brain Training™." If this could be edited into the article, that would be appreciated because I find data in tables difficult to edit. 58.104.3.15 (talk) 05:40, 4 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Oh, that is nice! I will update the article, thanks! -- ReyBrujo (talk) 16:34, 4 February 2008 (UTC)

Kingdom Hearts hits 11 million
It has been stated on both IGN and Gamespot that Kingdom Hearts have now shipped 11 million world wide. I think it should probably be updated. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Lionheart08 (talk • contribs) 21:24, 6 February 2008 (UTC)
 * That is cool, of course! -- ReyBrujo (talk) 00:47, 11 February 2008 (UTC)

Command & Conquer and Street Fighter
Should the references for Command & Conquer (dated December 3 2007) and Street Fighter (dated September 30 2007) be switched to one of these sources which cite the same numbers, but at an earlier date. (January 10 2007)  --Silver Edge (talk) 00:01, 11 February 2008 (UTC)
 * The problem with those two links is that The Independent picked the numbers from Wikipedia (but didn't mention us, unfortunately). Check here for the archived mention. Just to point out, here is the source they use (the news was published on January 10, 2007). Wikipedia, on the last version of January 4, 2007, had exactly the same list, in the same order. I prefer keeping the existing references than switching to that one. While reliable sources picking from unreliable sources make the information acceptable for Wikipedia standards, I feel as if we will be losing two good references. -- ReyBrujo (talk) 01:01, 11 February 2008 (UTC)

Format
This format is way too difficult to edit, having to change the numbers of all the games just to move a game or add one. Plus, you'll need to mess with the plain text part and I'm no good at references, so I created 2 of the same site. Help! (And please consider a better format). --haha169 (talk) 01:23, 14 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Hey there. The Smash Bros reference doesn't say that number anywhere, so I removed it. And note that we try not to include games that sold more than 5 millions unless the reference notes it is the first game of a franchise.
 * The format is not ideal, yep, but it is better for the casual reader than a plain list of names and numbers which does not help him know what each game is about. The idea is to delete the plain text list later, but it is kept to edit the references easier. -- ReyBrujo (talk) 02:14, 14 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Oh, sorry. I didn't notice that the link didn't say the amount. I went and used the site that they used to reference the other games. Then, I used the figures amounted in List of best-selling video games and added them up. I thought that the references there would be correct, so I didn't bother to look...--haha169 (talk) 05:11, 14 February 2008 (UTC)

Age of Empire
The 2006 article in Forbes about the best selling games state it sold 20 million. However, a newer reference from 2008 said it sold 18 million. Just pointing out for future reference. -- ReyBrujo (talk) 11:41, 21 February 2008 (UTC)

Famicom Mini
Hmm... the 2005 Annual Report from Nintendo (PDF) states that In addition, to commemorate the twentieth anniversary of Famicom, the “Famicom Mini” series, [...] Sales of the entire series exceeded 6 million units worldwide. Should we add the Famicom Mini series to the list? -- ReyBrujo (talk) 19:52, 24 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Since it is a series, it should probably be included; however, if it were included, which title would it use? The North American or European name? --Silver Edge (talk) 03:46, 27 February 2008 (UTC)
 * It's not really a series, unless you want to count things like Player's Choice as a series too.  TJ   Spyke   04:44, 27 February 2008 (UTC)

Guild Wars
Now that the Guild Wars franchise has reached 5 million in sales, shouldn't it be moved from the List of best-selling video games article to this one? --Silver Edge (talk) 04:08, 27 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Indeed. There is a similar discussion at that list right now. I think we should find an old reference with the sales of the original game (when they did not mix the franchise numbers), use it to justify the inclusion there, and then leave the 5m here. -- ReyBrujo (talk) 11:38, 27 February 2008 (UTC)

Gran Turismo: 47m or 50m?
Apparently Sony has problems with their press release: The real driving simulator that's sold 50 million units is back... but the About section reads With more than 47 million units sold worldwide... so which one is correct? -- ReyBrujo (talk) 22:36, 27 January 2008 (UTC)


 * I would say the lower one. I can't now for sure, but I'm going to presume the 50mil is just rounding the number to the nearest 10 million.58.104.3.15 (talk) 05:26, 4 February 2008 (UTC)


 * Hmm... the UK game blurb says it sold 50 million, and it appears it has sold that many since August 2007, so I am updating this. -- ReyBrujo (talk) 13:16, 12 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Now their latest press release from March this year says 48 million. Using the Street Fighter precedent, I am reverting to 48m (the 50m could have been a mistake they fixed lately). -- ReyBrujo (talk) 20:38, 15 March 2008 (UTC)

Pac-Man
Shouldn't Pac-Man be in there somewhere? tomtom 20 03 08 —Preceding unsigned comment added by Tomtomtomabc123 (talk • contribs) 16:59, 20 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Yes. Pac-Man is probably the biggest title we are missing. I have tried very hard to find references for old games (I know Breakout sold 10 millions or so, but found sites that are not that reliable), but when talking about Pac-Man, Namco always says it has been played for billions of players, or that it grossed billions of dollars, abut never a single amount. We cannot just add up different Pac-Man titles, nor we can use a single game as reference (for example, the Atari Pac-Man version sold 7 million, but we cannot include it here because the source needs to explicitly say the franchise has sold 7 million, not a single game). I guess it has sold well over 50 million units, to reach the top ten (just like Tetris did), but no reference = no listing. Pity. -- ReyBrujo (talk) 03:37, 28 March 2008 (UTC)

Burnout franchise
Has sold 15 million copies. Moves from 92 to 55. (Was going to add this myself until I saw the sales ranks needed to be changed by hand...) --Tntnnbltn (talk) 13:16, 5 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Nice, thanks! I will update the article immediately. -- ReyBrujo (talk) 17:11, 5 April 2008 (UTC)

Unreal, 7m, 9,m 11m?
Our current reference says 7 million. The official page says 9 million. And the Interactive Content Exchange site presents the creator as having sold over 11 million. Which one is better? -- ReyBrujo (talk) 18:32, 5 April 2008 (UTC)

Where is Super Smash Brothers?
According to several Wikipedia pages, Super Smash Brothers (as a series) has sold over 13 million games. Where is it? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.34.75.122 (talk • contribs)
 * See . --Silver Edge (talk) 05:12, 4 May 2008 (UTC)

Guitar Hero franchise - 19m
The 15 million figure for GH franchise is outdated, Activision announced today that "19 million copies of the Guitar Hero franchise sold worldwide."... SeanMooney (talk) 22:16, 8 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Neat :-) Thanks! -- ReyBrujo (talk) 02:32, 9 May 2008 (UTC)
 * I couldn't find the number in their press release, though :-/ -- ReyBrujo (talk) 02:37, 9 May 2008 (UTC)

EyeToy games and Buzz!
This source states: "Sales of EyeToy games have now reached 6.7 million, while for Buzz! the figure is 6 million and for SingStar it's 12 million." --Silver Edge (talk) 03:18, 9 May 2008 (UTC)

Nintendo franchises sales not updated yet?
According to this The New York Times article, collectively Mario, Zelda and Donkey Kong sold 350m units. That means we are missing 50m (I am guessing around 10m for Zelda and the rest for Mario). Nintendo should have updated the numbers at the press room already, but we need to wait until someone reports them. So, pay attention folks! -- ReyBrujo (talk) 02:52, 25 May 2008 (UTC)

Plain text
How about moving the plain text list into a subpage of the article /list (plain text)? The majority of readers only really need the tabular format. Anyway, just a thought. MahangaTalk 02:41, 2 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Right now, the idea of the plain text list is to allow easy copy/paste for readers (these lists are used by gaming forums), to keep the references in the list instead of the table (which would make the table slightly harder to read), and to be able to verify the positioning of the games in the table (the list will always have the correct positioning, but the table is manually modified which may introduce errors). If we were to remove the list, it should be put in Talk:List of best-selling video game franchises/list, because we cannot have two articles about the same in the main space. I once asked in the WikiProject about this issue, but nobody replied. -- ReyBrujo (talk) 03:17, 2 June 2008 (UTC)

Mario Party franchise
In this review it states the franchise sold 7 million (contrary to the current one that says 5 million in US). What people think about the site credibility? -- ReyBrujo (talk) 00:08, 9 June 2008 (UTC)
 * If you're talking about this part This wasn't that huge of an issue in the GameCube games, but one would expect a deliberately family-oriented console with seven million units sold worldwide to make multiplayer as easy as the game's single-player mode., it's referring to the number of Wii consoles sold. Rhonin the wizard (talk) 16:16, 11 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Ugh, you are right, don't know how I misunderstood the statement :-/ -- ReyBrujo (talk) 16:25, 11 June 2008 (UTC)

Non-gaming intellectual properties
This list includes non-gaming IPs adapted to gaming (James Bond, Tom Clancy, Madden, others). I don't mind it, but the parent list, List of video game franchises, does not include them at all. It seems kind of inconsistent. I'm at odds at which is best or if it's fine as it is. Comments? MahangaTalk 16:04, 11 June 2008 (UTC)
 * We have thought about creating a separate section with these series (mostly Nickelodeon, Tom Clancy, Marvel, etc), but wouldn't that bring some controversy? I mean, most sports franchises would be moved there (Madden, Fifa, NCAA, NBA, etc). -- ReyBrujo (talk) 16:29, 11 June 2008 (UTC)

Another top 10 franchise list
This time from AskMen (?). By the comments, it appears the article went up on May 27, which means this was the list available at around that time (modified on May 22, next modification was on May 28).

As you can see, the same 10 titles appear in both lists. However, they modified some amounts (I notice they used the old 155m number for Pokémon, updated GTA with the 6m from GTA4 sales, discounted 2m from Clancy, and added 16m to Tetris). Some time ago I found the 86 million reference for Tetris, however it pointed to an IGN article which stated 70m, so I considered it untrustworthy. The other reference, this one, appeared not trustworthy because the newest THQ press release from February 2007 (that would be 2 years after TechDigest report) stated 70m and not 86m.

I believe this passes the duck test because they used Wikipedia to get a draft of the top 10, and then independently searched for the numbers. Anyone disagreeing with including this as an online reference to the article? -- ReyBrujo (talk) 06:56, 16 June 2008 (UTC)

Pixar?
I don't see why Pixar is listed as a franchise. There's no common thread between the various Pixar properties which comprise the 35 million videogames which are listed as belonging to the Pixar 'franchise'. Looks to me as though it should be removed from the list. 203.87.6.149 (talk) 16:45, 21 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Check . There are several franchises that involve several others, some involving media products instead of gaming ip (Pixar, Nickelodeon, Marvel, etc). While they don't appear to be franchises, the media and the companies say they are, and we cannot contradict what they say regarding gaming franchises. We may have to create a new list for these franchises, but right now, they are here and should be accepted because our restriction is just the near 5 million mark. -- ReyBrujo (talk) 18:42, 21 June 2008 (UTC)

SingStar at 15m
In their E3 conference, Tretton said SingStar reached 15 million units worldwide. But I couldn't find any print reference to that. Anyone can confirm the E3 reference, or find a print one? -- ReyBrujo (talk) 05:35, 16 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Eurogamer live blog had it, using it as reference. -- ReyBrujo (talk) 02:57, 17 July 2008 (UTC)

MGS
metal gear solid is at 25million according to Q1 financial report. NeoGAF has it, it's probably in the official report, which I can't find. Waiting for a better source. 129.120.193.111 (talk) 17:53, 5 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Thanks, I saw the thread, but couldn't find any reference. I think we will have to wait until their Annual and Transition Report. -- ReyBrujo (talk) 01:28, 6 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Unfortunately, Konami never mentions the total cumulative shipments/sales, it is just the conclusion of 22 million of old shipments plus 3 million of MGS4. We will have to wait for the annual filling, or a reliable source doing the math for us. -- ReyBrujo (talk) 01:50, 6 August 2008 (UTC)

GTA at 70 million?
Should GTA stay at 50 million or be moved to 70 million? AFP lists it today at 70 million, and is a quite reliable source. Fram (talk) 09:02, 21 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Ugh, seems changed all the values at the top. We already have GTA at 70 million, so no worries. -- ReyBrujo (talk) 13:26, 21 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Ah, I see. Thanks! Fram (talk) 14:35, 21 August 2008 (UTC)

Gears of War
A quick Google search indicates that Gears of War has sold/shipped over 5 million units. Does it classify for this list, despite there only being one game in the franchise? (Gears of War 2 is only another two weeks away anyway.) --Tntnnbltn (talk) 00:46, 25 October 2008 (UTC)
 * If we find a reference where they talk about the Gears of War franchise selling 5 million, or that the first game selling 5 million is a good start for the franchise, sure. -- ReyBrujo (talk) 03:07, 25 October 2008 (UTC)
 * How's this: "Epic, based in Cary, is the developer of the successful “Gears of War” game franchise, which has sold more than 5 million copies around the world." - http://www.bizjournals.com/triangle/stories/2008/10/20/daily48.html —Preceding unsigned comment added by Tntnnbltn (talk • contribs)
 * Yes, I just fixed the reference at the list of best-selling video games and noticed it could be used here. Thanks! -- ReyBrujo (talk) 03:14, 26 October 2008 (UTC)

Formula One franchise
What do you guys think about this as reference for the 6.5m sold for the franchise? -- ReyBrujo (talk) 05:07, 5 June 2008 (UTC)


 * I don't think that F1 should be considered as a franchise given the myriad versions and publishers that have licensed the sport. Otherwise we would have to bundle all of the soccer games together and I'm sure that the FIFA and Pro Evo fanboys would have major issues with that! Danno uk (talk) 01:40, 17 November 2008 (UTC)

Where is Doom?
Doom should be on this list. According the list of top selling games, Doom 3 has 3.5 million sales and Doom 2 has 2 million sales. Adding these 2 together meets the 5 million sales requirement without even adding the rest of the games of the franchise. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.183.210.65 (talk)
 * Yes, but we don't add individual games to come with the franchise order, instead wait for a single reference to indicate the franchise sales amount. That is why Doom hasn't been included yet, there is no single reference stating how much the series have sold. -- ReyBrujo (talk) 18:31, 2 August 2008 (UTC)

Also, should the Doom figures include the huge number of shareware PC installs out there? They're not strictly speaking sales figures as such but they are actual (and legal) copies of the game. As a precedent for this, look at Tetris. If 33m of that game's sales are on the Gameboy format, then the vast majority of those will have been bundled with the Gameboy (i.e. free like shareware) rather than individual shop bought units. On another note, should the Doom franchise numbers include Wolfenstein 3D or even Quake or should they be considered as standalone franchises? Danno uk (talk) 23:04, 16 November 2008 (UTC)
 * How about this reference? Old (pre-Doom 3) but apparently Id's own figures for the series prior to Doom 3 http://www.cnet.com/4520-6022_1-5148371-1.html. I'd say that even with the omission of the Doom 3 sales that 4m is still a very conservative figure Danno uk (talk) 20:02, 21 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Still not good enough, our threshold for this list is 5 million, and we cannot add Doom 3 sales to this reference by ourselves. I will see if I can find something today. -- ReyBrujo (talk) 16:02, 22 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Ah, just got one that states 8.5 million from 2004-08-24, just three weeks after your reference. Strange difference, but well, it is a reliable reference. -- ReyBrujo (talk) 16:07, 22 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Yay! I'm so glad that Doom is now included, it's too big a game to miss. I bow to your superior googling skills. Well done. Danno uk (talk) 21:07, 23 November 2008 (UTC)

Hitman
Our source says it has sold 10 million, although a recent Square Enix report states it sold 8.3m only. -- ReyBrujo (talk) 18:22, 16 February 2009 (UTC)
 * The number comes from this report(page 16). Rhonin the wizard (talk) 18:26, 16 February 2009 (UTC)

Animal Crossing
Shouldn't the Animal Crossing series be over 10 milliion copies? Wild World has over 9 million. Here's a reference.http://www.nintendo.co.jp/ir/pdf/2008/080425e.pdf#page=6 GamerPro64 (talk) 23:51, 30 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Yes, and so probably Star Fox over 5m, but Nintendo hasn't released numbers about the whole franchise, and we cannot sum numbers around to get the franchise total sales. -- ReyBrujo (talk) 01:37, 31 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Sure We can! --74.143.59.210 (talk) 16:55, 17 February 2009 (UTC)

SingStar
Disc sales have reached 17 million. --Tntnnbltn (talk) 15:32, 20 February 2009 (UTC)

Harvest Moon
Shouldn't Harvest Moon be somewhere in this list? I mean it must have sold 5 million copies worldwide by now. Kukisanban 22:29, 04 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Same as Pac-Man, Star Fox, Smash Bros, etc. We need an article that says "The XXX franchise/series has sold/shipped ...", which we haven't yet. -- ReyBrujo (talk) 01:15, 5 April 2009 (UTC)

well no
If you can get a source saying that one game in a series has sold # number of games, then you can say that the franchise has sold # number of games. Hence, says that Wii Sports has sold 40.5ish million copies. Wii Sports is part of the Wii series/franchise, therefore you can say that the Wii Series has sold 40.5 million games. We can't add the games together cause of the wikilaw that states that A+B doesn't = C   But this is not adding them together, therfore, this franchise should be added to the list at 40.5 million, and wait until the number gets updated by another source. Same goes for other franchises IAmTheCoinMan (talk) 05:27, 19 April 2009 (UTC)
 * We prefer to get this straight: if the source speaks about a franchise or series, we add it, if we assume the franchise exists and/or just one game makes up a franchise, we are treading mud there. We could have added the Pac-Man franchise since the Atari version sold 7 million alone, but we prefer just waiting for the reference to appear. We have time. -- ReyBrujo (talk) 17:42, 19 April 2009 (UTC)

Tap Tap series?
Where is the Tap Tap series listed in all of this? This video game franchise for the iPhone OS has been digitally distributed over 10 million times:  --Brianreading (talk) 08:47, 25 April 2009 (UTC)


 * Hmm... nowhere he mentions any tap tap series... -- ReyBrujo (talk) 02:20, 26 April 2009 (UTC)


 * Well yes, but Tap Tap Revenge, which was mentioned in the source, is a part of the Tap Tap franchise. This means that it has over 10 million installs. Brianreading (talk) 07:17, 26 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Check the section just above this one. Pac-Man for Atari sold 7 million, but we didn't add the Pac-Man franchise to the list. It could be added in the list of best-selling mobile games, though, if all of them are sales. -- ReyBrujo (talk) 18:17, 26 April 2009 (UTC)
 * I see. There is one issue about adding it to that section you suggested.  The game is not strictly a mobile phone game, as the iPhone OS is a general mobile OS that also runs on iPod touch devices as well as iPhones. Brianreading (talk) 18:40, 26 April 2009 (UTC)
 * In that case, we can add it to the PC section, which includes Mac and Linux (specifying it is for the iPhone OS). -- ReyBrujo (talk) 20:33, 26 April 2009 (UTC)

Nintendo sales updated (important)
I have updated the sales figures for Mario (201m -> 210m), Zelda (52m -> 57m), Donkey Kong (48m -> 49m) and Metroid (13m -> 14m) using this link. During E3 Nintendo allows guests to login to their press site to download information about products (without having to register for a press account); this year the login information is username E32009 and password Nintendo. To login, go to press.nintendo.com and log with that information, once in choose the Corporate tab, and from there, the :: Sales Information & Financials link:


 * Source: Nintendo [as of March 2008]:
 * Total Mario series: more than 210 million units sold worldwide
 * Total Zelda series: more than 57 million units worldwide
 * Total Metroid series: more than 14 million units worldwide
 * Total Pokémon series: more than 180 million units worldwide
 * Total Donkey Kong series: more than 49 million units worldwide

Since this is a temporary login (which will expire on July 1, 2009), I need a few extra editors to check the amounts and confirm them, so that once the login expires, there will not be complains about the information is no longer accessible. Note that the numbers are from March 2008, so I left Pokémon at 186m (our reference is a year newer). -- ReyBrujo (talk) 02:28, 15 June 2009 (UTC)

starcraft / diablo update
http://e3.gamespot.com/story/6210427/starcraft-ii-by-end-of-2009 MahangaTalk 04:04, 1 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Starcraft - 11 million
 * Diablo - 20 million
 * Thanks, updated! -- ReyBrujo (talk) 02:39, 15 June 2009 (UTC)

Humongous series?
The latest Majesco filling says the Humongous series sold 15 million. Does anyone know it? -- ReyBrujo (talk) 03:48, 12 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Humongous Entertainment is a company. It is not really a "series" as it consists of several unrelated series by the same company. Maybe that was what you were thinking (or maybe you have never heard of Humongous Entertainment).75.142.61.19 (talk) 05:14, 19 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Nop, never heard about them, so thanks for the explanation. I guess we would not add a "Nintendo franchise" to the list, since it is not an IP but rather several properties from a single company. -- ReyBrujo (talk) 12:01, 19 November 2008 (UTC)

Yes, similar to "Nickelodeon", Humongous should not be included. 173.52.136.109 (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 13:59, 16 July 2009 (UTC).

Some of These Are Not True Franchises
You can't list things like Nikelodeon, Marvel, and Disney as franchises...thats too vague. Franchises are specifics; Mario, Mortal Kombat, Halo, ect. You can't just list all nickelodeon based games as a Nickelodeon franchise...if that was the case you could just list all football games as NFL. Its ridicoulous. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.104.253.197 (talk) 07:39, 22 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Indeed. If you had checked above, you would have found a previous discussion about that. We considered creating a new section for media franchises, but did not do so for lack of more opinions. Also, if EA and TTwo merge and EA begins talking about "Our Football franchise has sold over 100 million units" we would include it here as well. It doesn't matter what _we_ think a franchise is, it only matters what the reference says. For example, Assassin Creed franchise consisted of one game for PS3 and Xbox 360, yet Ubisoft talked about the Assassin Creed franchise. Therefore, even though it had only one game for two platforms, it was right to include it here as a franchise. Pac-Man for Atari sold 7 million, over the 5 million needed to rank here. However, the reference did not talk about the Pac-Man franchise, but instead the Pac-Man game, therefore it cannot be used here. -- ReyBrujo (talk) 03:41, 28 March 2008 (UTC)

How is the inclusion of Simple as a franchise justified? Surely this a label or brand rather than a franchise. For example, during the 1980s, following its purchase of the bankrupt Imagine software house, Ocean published arcade game conversions under the Imagine label, but to view this as a franchise would surely be wrong?Danno uk (talk) 23:18, 16 November 2008 (UTC)

The approach described above is a little misguided. I agree that only sources with references should be included on the list. However, just because we can find a reference stating that something (in this case games based on nickelodeon franchises, or marvel, or whatever) has sold x number of copies that does not mean it belongs on this list! 173.52.136.109 (talk) 14:03, 16 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Hi there. I restored the article to the original version before the discussion started. This article lists video game franchises. On to the topic: If a reference exists, it should be included. Remember that we don't care about truth, we only care about verification. If Nintendo says the Touch Generation franchise has sold over 100 million units, we will include it, even if one could say it is a number of elements that may not be considered from the franchise.
 * It has been some talk about splitting the table, putting Nickelodeon, Pixar, Marvel, Barbie, Disney and DreamWorks (and probably others) in another table for "franchises that started as something other than video games". But then, we may have to take away many titles, like Madden NFL, FIFA, Tom Clancy, WWE SmackDown!, James Bond, etc. So, we usually just keep these titles here because we have a reference and because it doesn't hurt the list. -- ReyBrujo (talk) 01:40, 17 July 2009 (UTC)

Hi. I'm reverting; please don't turn this into an undo/redo war while we're in the middle of this discussion. Anyway, the point is that the approach you are suggesting DOES hurt the list. It makes the logic and purpose of the list completely opaque. There have been several comments from several different users to this very point. "Nickelodeon" appearing at position 12 and "SpongeBob SquarePants" appearing at position 53 is completely nonsensical and looks amateurish. Not only does Nickelodeon CONTAIN SpongeBob, but a media company that owns a large number of franchises like SpongeBob or Invader Zim, etc, is in no way a franchise itself, at least not in sense that the vast majority of the items on list are.

The list should be clear and logical and easy to use. Users shouldn't have to turn to the discussion page to puzzle out quirks like this.173.52.136.109 (talk) 04:00, 17 July 2009 (UTC)
 * This article may never be completed, and the numbers are only a guide. In no way it represents the actual "ranking" of a franchise, and in fact only in forum boards this is used to show popularity. Amateurish? We are amateur ;-) This list is a "take it or don't", as I mentioned, we don't care if it is true or not, we just pick sourced information, so if Nintendo decides to give us the "Nintendo franchise" amount, we will include it. It is up to the readers to filter the information taking away metafranchises (franchises that include others), company franchises, etc. As for metafranchises (Nickelodeon including others that may appear in the list) we do that with others, like Mario franchise and Mario Kart franchise, or the Tom Clancy and the Rainbow Six, Splinter Cell, etc. Again, we don't judge how companies release their numbers, we use them if fitting. -- ReyBrujo (talk) 15:36, 17 July 2009 (UTC)

The issue we're having with the list has nothing to do with popularity or a dispute about the "ranking" of franchises. It is about what exactly is eligible to be represented on the list. In other words, what is the definition of a franchise in this context? As you yourself mentioned on this very talk page:

"Nop, never heard about them, so thanks for the explanation. I guess we would not add a "Nintendo franchise" to the list, since it is not an IP but rather several properties from a single company. -- ReyBrujo "

You make a good point about the problems with meta-franchises like Mario vs Mario Kart and the Tom Clancy series, although I personally don't view these as severe as Nickelodeon.

As another user mentioned below, the descriptions are probably unnecessary and as I myself discovered the other day, the format of the list makes editing and re-ordering far more tedious than necessary. I may take a crack at a larger scale update this week if I have time. My worry is that without a more rigorous editorial angle the list may become vague and inclusive to the point of being useless. I don't have all the answers personally but I do think the current approach needs to be re-thought. I encourage other users to comment with their input! 98.14.91.123 (talk) 17:07, 18 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Hmm... seems I gave different opinions for a "Nintendo franchise", probably because as you say there is not a solid threshold for inclusion. In principle, I would agree now with you that if we kept the Humongous franchise out of the list, so we should with the Nickelodeon.
 * So, let's begin with a clarification of the scope of the franchises. What is the difference between "Humongous franchise", "Nickelodeon franchise" and "Tom Clancy franchise"? Well, the "Tom Clancy" one may be a bit complex, since it is the name of a writer, but Ubisoft bought all the rights to the name regarding video games... -- ReyBrujo (talk) 03:35, 19 July 2009 (UTC)

Monster Hunter update
According to a Capcom Unity blog post, the Monster Hunter series is now at 10 million units shipped. Rhonin the wizard (talk) 19:44, 29 July 2009 (UTC)

Super Robot Wars
Why no Super Robot Wars, one of Banpresto's best selling franchise. According to this source, it outsold Pokemon in Japan. Donnie Park (talk) 01:42, 5 August 2009 (UTC)
 * If you can find a reliable source that states the sales of the Super Robot Wars franchise it will be added. The one you posted is just for one week. Rhonin the wizard (talk) 05:14, 5 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Outsold it for the week ;-) -- ReyBrujo (talk) 13:35, 5 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Although it is there somewhere, if only my Japanese was any good, especially for a game that is non-notable outside of Japan. Donnie Park (talk) 13:36, 12 August 2009 (UTC)

SingStar @ 19.5 million
Stats from GamesCom convention video: http://www.ausgamers.com/videos/view.php/46486  134.7.248.130 (talk) 10:20, 19 August 2009 (UTC)

Wii Series
sports

play

fit

music

chess

sports 2

fit 2

must be in top 10? surely? The preceding unsigned comment was added by somebody (talk) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.107.89.126 (talk) 21:42, 30 August 2009 (UTC)

Grand Theft Auto value
GTA's sales in the table is 91 million, while in plain text it is 75 million. Which is which? 112.201.107.227 (talk) 08:56, 6 September 2009 (UTC)

Tiger Woods PGA Tour series
I can't find a suitable source, but a game that's been released since the 90s and is released on many major consoles and in top-10 lists should sell over 5 million.

APAD (talk) 10:59, 5 November 2009 (UTC)
 * Yes, it is true. And so with other franchises like Pac-Man. However, as you mentioned, we can't find a suitable source. -- ReyBrujo (talk) 15:49, 7 November 2009 (UTC)

New idea
As all contributors to this list probably know, not every series, even if it's known to be successful, has a concrete sales total from a reliable source. Therefore, I propose that series sales totals can, if no other total exists from a reliable source, be compiled from sales of individual games in the series. This would be done with a footnote in place of a reference, that contains sales for individual games that make up the total. For example:

Series (14 million)

The series would have collectively sold at least, probably well over, 14 million. Tezero (talk) 18:51, 6 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Yes, it has been brought to our attention a modification in verification (where addition of individual title sales are not considered WP:SYN, as it used to be). My main complain (one I have mentioned a few times around) is that people will start "updating" franchise sales this way (for example, once New Super Mario Bros Wii sales are public, people may update Super Mario franchise sales to 222+10 (for example), where they are mixing a reference for the franchise with a reference for individual sales.


 * I am not against including franchises adding up individual franchise title sales. But this gives us a problem: for the Smash Bros franchise, you have three games. But for the Super Mario one, you got over 100. What if someone adds up the sales for every Super Mario title and determines it is higher than the amount informed by Nintendo? Then he may replace a single franchise reference with 100 references for each game, which creates several problems: who would have the time to check every link, and update them as necessary? how can we be sure certain games are included in the franchise or not (the Mario franchise may not include the Mario Kart franchise, for example)? how can we prevent mixing franchise sales with individual titles? The casual user needs to have the information straight: he should not be given a 222m reference and a 10m reference and hope he will understand why we are mixing both references, or without having to tell them that the franchise reference was published before the sales of the newest game?


 * That is why I had proposed to create a new table in the talk page with series whose numbers we don't know but could be included, polish it, and then add it to the article but not in the main table, but instead in another named "Unreferenced series". Note that the threshold for these should be higher (I would say 10m instead of 5m) because virtually every blockbuster multiplatform title could be considered a franchise in itself if it sells more than five million. -- ReyBrujo (talk) 23:44, 6 December 2009 (UTC)
 * I agree; that's why I said it should generally be done only for series that don't have any other sales total from a reliable source. The ones I had in mind when I proposed this were Star Fox, Lego, and Wii (like Wii Sports and Wii Fit, which alone could probably knock off most of the competition on this list). Tezero (talk) 22:37, 8 December 2009 (UTC)
 * I agree with Star Fox and Lego. The Wii franchise is questionable, since Nintendo never talked about a "Wii franchise". It would be like a "64" franchise for Nintendo N64 games, or a "Super" franchise for Super NES games. I would say Smash Bros (which is usually requested) and Pac-Man. -- ReyBrujo (talk) 03:54, 10 December 2009 (UTC)

Star Wars Franchise
Why don´t all the Star Wars games go together?, over all they have sold over 50 million http://www.vgchartz.com/games/index.php?&results=50&name=star%20wars&console=&keyword=&publisher=&genre=&order=Sales&boxart=Both&showdeleted=&region=All&alphasort=

130.225.102.1 (talk) 14:01, 3 September 2008 (UTC)
 * We need to find a reference that says so, we cannot just add up all numbers of all games and say that the franchise has sold something. -- ReyBrujo (talk) 21:27, 3 September 2008 (UTC)

How about writing a note stating that the individual sales add up to over 50 mill?, that does not explicitly say that the franchise has sold that much. I just think it would be good to mention since it is one of the best selling franchises 130.225.102.1 (talk) 11:58, 5 September 2008 (UTC)

What about the "generic" Star Wars games like Star Wars: The Force Unleashed? How are those counted? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 172.166.189.144 (talk) 01:02, 8 April 2009 (UTC)

You can add the TFU as its own frachise because the first one sold about 6 mill and second on the way. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Star-wars-josh32 (talk • contribs) 10:55, 23 December 2009 (UTC)

Zuma
What do you think about this reference for Zuma (Zuma is PopCap's second most popular title after Bejeweled, with more than 17 million units sold across numerous platforms and devices since it debuted in 2003.). -- ReyBrujo (talk) 01:29, 21 December 2009 (UTC)
 * It seems ok to me. --AndreaFox2 (talk) 20:24, 24 December 2009 (UTC)

Madden sales in USA
This article says the Madden franchise has sold 63m units in USA only. Keeping it here for future reference (and to show Madden as a virtually USA-only driven franchise). -- ReyBrujo (talk) 18:02, 6 February 2010 (UTC)

Sonic The Hedgehog sales increased
According to http://gamereactor.se/nyheter/13445/Sega+om+Sonic+Unleashed/ Sonic has sold over 50 mil. Could someone who knows how to properly update the article do it? Also the top 10 here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_best-selling_video_games 87.202.115.17 (talk) 02:44, 28 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Is it a reliable site? Sega.com has press releases stating it sold 45 million only, but none saying it sold 50 million. So, it depends if that site is reliable or not (was that news submitted by a user or an editor of the site?). -- ReyBrujo (talk) 03:31, 28 March 2008 (UTC)

I can't reference it, but if you add up the sales for Sonic on Sonic the Hedgehog (series) it's around 74 million units worldwide. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Najs91 (talk • contribs) 06:12, 15 February 2010 (UTC)

Update
This list needs to be updated. For example the list has the Grand Theft Auto series at 70 million. But other sources have up to 125 million.
 * Like which one? -- ReyBrujo (talk) 01:20, 8 March 2010 (UTC)

Like the article here on Wikipedia>


 * They quote sources published at different times. Whichever reliable news source is most recent, is the one to use.  Sometimes they list how many are shipped, instead of sold.   D r e a m Focus  23:34, 9 March 2010 (UTC)

Uncharted games have reference

 * Last evening in Las Vegas, UNCHARTED 2: Among Thieves took the Interactive Achievement Awards by storm, grabbing ten awards, the most for any one title. It also won “Overall Game of the Year” for 2009, which is the second time PlayStation has been awarded this coveted honor by the academy. UNCHARTED 2: Among Thieves has also garnered more than 150 other industry awards, has over 1.5 million online users worldwide, and has surpassed 3.5 million copies sold worldwide – the fastest selling first-party title for PlayStation. Not to mention, it’s established a new standard for games developed on the PS3 platform.


 * There are two references for the Uncharted games, both of them seem quite credible. Stop erasing information.  Does anyone sincerely doubt the information here about their sales?   D r e a m Focus  19:19, 4 April 2010 (UTC)
 * Check . I don't see anything wrong in waiting until they give us a single reference for sales numbers, there are thousands of references we could be using but then the article would become a mess because people would want to try to update them with sales information from series and particular games (for example, when Super Mario Galaxy 2 launches, people would just add the franchise sales of 222 and the sales for SMG2 to create a new pseudo amount, instead of waiting for a reliable source to update the reference. I don't see the point in having to do that, series sales are regularly updated, and we can wait until a single reference is found. The anonymous user had an agenda since he has been rolling back without discussing, even though there were threads open here (in the past and nowadays) that talk about that, and he specifically looked into Uncharted instead of trying more known examples of missing games (like Pac-Mank or Smash Bros). -- ReyBrujo (talk) 00:38, 5 April 2010 (UTC)
 * You do not doubt the game is a best selling franchise, but you want to remove it from the list. That doesn't make any sense at all.  And if you have a reliable source for each game, you can do simply mathematics and add it together.  2.6 million plus 3.5 million equals 6.1 million.  And these games keep selling for years after they were released, with new games being released in the series to add to their numbers.  If you find updated sales figures, use them, if not, anything is better than nothing at all.  I'll add a disclaimer at the top of the article that these are the minimum confirmed sales figures though.   D r e a m Focus  01:12, 5 April 2010 (UTC)

Star Fox
The Star Fox series has sold at least 8.5 million when added together (Star Fox has sold over 4 million, Star Fox 64 has sold 3.3 million, Star Fox Adventures over 1 million, and Star Fox Assault at least 250,000 in order to have been considered a "Player's Choice" title by Nintendo, and that's not even counting Star Fox Command)... I can't find any totaled data for this, just the individual amounts sold... am I to take it (because of Wikipedia's tendency to obey the letter of the law in expense of its spirit) that it can't be included? --Harlequin212121 (talk) 16:47, 21 April 2010 (UTC)
 * You can add it together yourself. That isn't original research, its common sense.  D r e a m Focus  16:51, 21 April 2010 (UTC)

Grand Theft Auto
The source cited for Grand Theft Auto does claim that it has sold 70 million, however that is not including many of the game wihthin the series. Such as GTA 1, GTA 2, GTA III, GTAIV. Some of their biggest selling titles. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Dcipjwdcjiwc (talk • contribs) 19:26, 5 May 2010 (UTC)

100 million list
Because several games at the top of the list are close to or are already exceeding 100 million sales, another chart may need to be set up to differentiate between the 50 million-99 million range and the 100 million+ range. I'm not sure whether Mario should be placed in a separate category at the moment (200 million+ sales), but it's also something to think about. fds Talk 00:43, 26 May 2010 (UTC)

Pixar
should be removed at a franchise. It gives it a bump in numbers but you are only talking about games based on all separate pixar franchises collectively. Other games listed can be collectively put together. Mario and zelda numbers could be put together for the same reasons you put pixar related games together. I question why this method was used.70.15.191.119 (talk) 01:11, 5 June 2010 (UTC)

What about Microsoft Windows bundle games?
List of best-selling video games shows many bundled games. But what about Windows bundle games such as Freecell, Solitaire, Minesweeper? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Dongvil (talk • contribs) 10:59, 6 June 2010 (UTC)

Sim franchise vs. The Sims franchise.
Is there a consensus on how to handle the maxis games. Should Simcity, Simcoaster, Simant, The Sims, Simcopter, et al. all be one franchise? Or is Simcity one franchise, the Sims another, and the rest stand alone games? 72.94.197.60 (talk) 17:06, 19 June 2010 (UTC)

Red Dead franchise should be added to the list
The first game sold 1.5 million copies (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_Dead_Revolver), the second game sold over 5 million copies (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_Dead_Redemption). That's way over the 5 million requird to be on the list. Im2duvi (talk) 10:30, 30 August 2010 (UTC)
 * I'd say go right ahead if the Redemption page had a source for 5 million, but it doesn't. If you can find one (a reliable one, not VG Chartz etc) then go feel free to add it to the list, and add the citation to the RD:Redemption page.  Alphathon ™ ( talk ) 10:37, 30 August 2010 (UTC)

Series missing
The Pac-Man, Fatal Fury and Virtua Fighter series deserve to be mentioned here. These franchises surely sold more than 10 millions of games. AndreaFox2 (talk) 13:15, 14 September 2010 (UTC)
 * Assuming you can find a ref for each and you are willing to go through the trouble of changing all the following numbers (we really need a better system) then go right ahead; you don't need permission to do so.  Alphathon ™ ( talk )

Original research
I'd just like to point out that assigning numbers like #1 and #2 is original research and/or synthesis unless a source can also be found which corroborates this numbering. SharkD  Talk  16:22, 16 September 2010 (UTC)

Halo Series Doesn't Add up
While I do not have a source to cite or reference (thus why I haven't edited the number myself), according to the list of best selling video games, if you add up the sales of all three Halo games, they equal over 20 million. --Xander756 (talk) 02:02, 12 February 2008 (UTC)
 * That is expected for most franchises listed here because the references are old (the reference for Halo here is from October 4, 2007, while the Halo 3 sales link is from January 3, 2008. We wait for reliable sources to report franchise sales instead of adding them up. Sometimes this takes time, unfortunately (for example, The Legend of Zelda doesn't include Phantom Hourglass which has sold almost 4 million nor Link's Crossbow Training, while Mario doesn't include the over 5 millions from Super Mario Galaxy. Call of Duty is missing a lot (we have only the North American sales, but we know it sold over 7 million worldwide last year, plus all the sales that hasn't been accounted for since our reference is only for North America), etc. And although Smash Bros. sold combined over 10 million copies, it is not even listed here because there is not a single reliable reference stating it sold that much. Just wait until Microsoft touts the number, they are likely to do by the time Halo Wars is released. -- ReyBrujo (talk) 03:22, 12 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Do you think it would be more beneficial to not require sources for the numbers listed on the franchises page if they can be acquired by combining the sourced numbers from the list of best selling video games? It would solve the franchises numbers being out of date but also still be relying on cited, reliable sources from the other page. --Xander756 (talk) 17:07, 12 February 2008 (UTC)
 * As far as I know, we have always used a single reference for franchises instead of adding numbers up, as we would have to do that for every franchise, which would be rather tiresome (imagine with franchises like Madden, where you need to find sales information for 10 or 11 platforms, or with games that report both shipped and sold numbers, or with games that are so broad you cannot determine which individual games are included and which not). My personal opinion is that we keep using just one reference and wait for reliable sources to inform about sales milestones. Remember that according to our policy, Editors should not make the mistake of thinking that if A is published by a reliable source, and B is published by a reliable source, then A and B can be joined together in an article to advance position C. This is a problem in the list of best-selling video games which I am trying not to bring here. -- ReyBrujo (talk) 17:41, 12 February 2008 (UTC)

According to the main Halo (series) page, the games have sold over 34 million copies, while this page claims the series to have sold 30 million. Also, the sales of Halo: Reach have not yet been given in terms of games sold, so the number may likely surpass 35 million, in which the series should be moved up the list. And is this only for games, and not supplementary material? Because the halo games, including all merchandise, has made 1.7 billion dollars. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.246.31.37 (talk) 00:29, 2 October 2010 (UTC)

Assassin's Creed Franchise
In this site it says the Assassin's Creed Franchise is #117 and has sold 8 million, but actually they have sold 19 million and if you look at the reference you can even see that it says so there. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 173.95.180.92 (talk) 22:17, 21 October 2010 (UTC)
 * Hmmm, it would seem that the page is updated periodically (so wasn't originally 19 million). My bad on the reversion.  Alphathon ™ ( talk ) 22:54, 21 October 2010 (UTC)

ATV Offroad Fury
I'm not sure if ATV Offroad Fury should actually be on this list. It says in the article itself the ATV Offroad Fury has sold almost 5 million units, but the minimum requirements to get on the list are supposedly at least 5 million units. So while it gets close I'm not sure if it should actually be here. Unless there is some other reason it got on the list I'm unaware of. I Feel Tired (talk) 02:47, 8 November 2010 (UTC)

Banjo-Kazooie
Shouldn't this series be listed under more then 5 Million? It states on the "list of best-selling video games" section on Wikipedia that Banjo-Kazooie sold more then 2 Million copies, it also states that Banjo-Tooie, it's sequel has sold 3 Million, which would make it more then 5 Million. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Dupthattroop (talk • contribs) 01:45, 2 May 2009 (UTC)
 * See the discussions above. Summing numbers isn't allowed here. Brianreading (talk) 17:43, 4 May 2009 (UTC)

Banjo-Kazooie sold 5 milion only with Banjo-Kazooie and Banjo-Tooie. What if we add BK: Grunty's Revenge, Banjo-Pilot and BK: Nuts & Bolts? --Walecs (talk) 12:00, 24 December 2010 (UTC)

Ape Escape
Can someone please change Ape Escape's sales figures as 129.25 million. The sources used have been updated and do not match the current Wikipedia page. Could someone change this? Thanks.--58.161.71.92 (talk) 11:52, 28 December 2010 (UTC)

Pokemon Games?
It says there are six main games for the pokemon series, divided in to 18 different versions. What about Diamond & Pearl and Black & White? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.111.138.224 (talk) 19:57, 15 January 2011 (UTC)

Donkey Kong more than 50 million copies
Put Donkey Kong in the more than 50 million copies category. DKCR has already sold more than 4 millions, which raises the total of copies sold for games of the DK series up to 53 millions. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 109.242.4.240 (talk) 12:40, 29 March 2011 (UTC)

Mario top?
Does Mario top placing include the numbers for spin-off mario series such as Mario Kart? Because mario kart is not part of the mario series. However, the Mario Kart series has sold over 52 million copies thus making it about the 11/12 best-selling video game franchise. IAmTheCoinMan (talk) 12:03, 18 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Nintendo is the one who determines what belongs and what does not belong to the Mario franchise, and whether games like Mario Picross or Mario Kart are counted or not. However, I fairly believe the franchise reaches 200m with only platform games, but this is speculation. -- ReyBrujo (talk) 01:47, 19 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Mario only reaches 155.51 for the main platform series of games, heres the units sold, in order, for the mario series platform games.
 * It is in millions
 * Main
 * 1.63
 * 40.23
 * 0 (No data)
 * 10
 * 14
 * 18
 * 20
 * 2.7
 * 11
 * 5.5
 * 7.16
 * 17.63
 * 7.66


 * 155.51 (total).


 * This data is correct and is the numbers found on reliable sources, including nintendo sales information releases.
 * IAmTheCoinMan (talk) 11:20, 21 March 2009 (UTC)
 * As I said, Nintendo determines what belongs to the "Mario franchise", not us. -- ReyBrujo (talk) 17:07, 21 March 2009 (UTC)

I think it's safe to say, from my own quick calculations (with numbers taken from vgchartz.com), that the 200 million is just from Mario's platformers alone and does not include any spin-offs. Here is my working:


 * Mario Bros - 2.28m
 * Super Mario Bros - 40.24m
 * Super Mario Bros 2 - 7.46m
 * Super Mario Bros 3 - 17.28m
 * Super Mario Land - 18.14m
 * Super Mario Land 2 - 11.18m
 * Super Mario World - 20.61m
 * Super Mario 64 - 11.89m
 * Super Mario Sunshine - 6.28m
 * New Super Mario Bros - 18.62m (and counting)
 * Super Mario Galaxy - 8.01m (and counting)

And then there's the remakes/re-releases:
 * Super Mario AllStars - 10.55m
 * Super Mario Bros Deluxe - 5.07m
 * Super Mario Advance (SMB2) - 5.49m
 * Super Mario Advance 2 (SMW) - 5.46m
 * Super Mario Advance 4 (SMB3) - 5.20m
 * NES Classic/Famicom Mini (SMB) - 2.26m
 * Famicom Mini (SMB2) - 0.41m
 * Famicom Mini (MB) - 0.08m
 * Super Mario 64 DS - 7.46m (and counting)

TOTAL = 203.97 million

To avoid any confusion perhaps the description should be changed slightly. Saying that the Mario franchise has "spawned over 200 games" makes it seem like the number is indeed for all Mario franchises when in actual fact the 200 million is just for his platformers alone. I suppose also when Nintendo gets round to releasing some official global Mario Kart franchise sales (which will almost certainly put Mario Kart in the top 10) it will make it clearer still. —Preceding unsigned comment added by SuperVigilant (talk • contribs) 18:06, 11 May 2009 (UTC)

Repute and Accuracy of Numbers

 * If China says that there not in Asia but in Europe it doesn't make it true.
 * But what I am saying is that there has been disputes over time on the accuracy of the numbers due to unreleased information from Nintendo, and other organisations. If you look above you can see disputes about Animal Crossing and Star Wars among others. If Nintendo is saying what games are found in certain series, and haven't said total franchise sales in a while, and we can't go on our and and make A+B=C (I didn't say there was this in the article, but that because we couldn't to fix errors, it's a stupid rule anyway). There is gonna be incorrect info in the article.
 * Like, if DS sales are 100 million as of Feb 2009, and PSP sales are 30 million as of March 2008, yet both the data is the most recent available. It is misleads one if one states. "The DS has sold 100 million, where as the PSP has only sold 30 million." The reader will think that the DS is owning the PSP by 70 million, where in fact, The DS has 1 year extra sales information on the PSP, and therfor, it is only fair to the PSP, to point out that the PSP information is out of date/that the accuracy of the statement is disputed.
 * Mario data is 11+ months old, where Pokemon is only about 1 month.


 * Do you get where I'm coming from now? IAmTheCoinMan (talk) 14:08, 22 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Yes, I noticed that. There are games that have old information too, some franchises like Twisted Metal have references from 2000. However, as you can imagine, every single article about sales has the same problem. In fact, if you get the new sales information today for the Mario franchise, it will be already outdated tomorrow. That is why we have disclaimers that the information in Wikipedia may not be accurate, like Risk disclaimer—PLEASE BE AWARE THAT ANY INFORMATION YOU MAY FIND IN WIKIPEDIA MAY BE INACCURATE, MISLEADING, DANGEROUS, ADDICTIVE, UNETHICAL OR ILLEGAL.—, Verifiability—The threshold for inclusion in Wikipedia is verifiability, not truth—that is, whether readers are able to check that material added to Wikipedia has already been published by a reliable source, not whether we think it is true., etc). It is like the spoilers warning, the disclaimer already states our information contains spoilers, there is no need to warn against that. Most information in Wikipedia (or any other source, in fact) becomes obsolete as soon as it hits the consumer.
 * The list of best-selling video games is maybe more up to date because it adds information from several different sources that are updated more often, but it is still violating WP:SYN. Between both we preferred to keep this one outdated but free of synthesis.
 * I wish companies would release statistics more often, but they do that whenever they feel like. Hopefully the PR departments will release information more often as this list is used more often, but who knows. -- ReyBrujo (talk) 16:48, 22 March 2009 (UTC)


 * But a lot of this information is out of date and is only fair and right to note that it is so.IAmTheCoinMan (talk) 15:33, 7 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Agreed! And when the user wants to verify the information by clicking on the reference, he obtains it as well as the date when the source was created and when we last accessed it. For example, if we were to change all the sales information to, say, "201 million as of 2008", "186 million as of 2009", "100 million as of 2008", etc, it would be redundant, since that information is already in the references below.
 * A few years ago we discussed somewhere a point: suppose X series reaches 10 million by year 2000. So, we add X saying it sold 10 million. Then we find a 2002 reference that says X series has sold 10 million. What do we do, do we keep the 2000 reference (because this way we know when the game reached it for the first time) or switch for the 2002 reference (which is a newer date). In the end we decided to keep the older reference instead of renewing the references to keep them up to date. -- ReyBrujo (talk) 01:05, 8 April 2009 (UTC)

I'm probably just being stupid, but why don't Mario Kart, Mario Party etc count as part of the Mario franchise? In a similar vein why is World of Warcraft separate from the Warcraft franchise? (Is it something to do with the fact that MMORPGs are strictly subscribed to not bought?) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.6.96.22 (talk) 23:59, 13 March 2011 (UTC)

I don't know why World of WarCraft isn't included with the rest of the WarCraft games. But the game is DEFINITELY purchased and then subsequently subscribed to- you don't even need to subscribe to immediately play. Does anyone have an answer to this? WoW is considered canon, it is considered a sequel to the WarCraft 3, it obviously bears the same name, many of the same characters, shares developers and publishers... is there something I missed? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.231.67.164 (talk) 00:30, 9 May 2011 (UTC)

Mario Kart
Mario Kart Wii on its own has sold 22.5 million copies, so why is it not even in the over 20 million copies sold category? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.178.129.57 (talk) 19:39, 28 September 2010 (UTC)


 * Feel free to change it. Total comes to at least 34.55 million by my reckoning (22.55 million MK Wii + 12 million franchise in NA up to 2005).Don't forget to add citations though (you can just copy the one of the Wii games page for the 22.55 million).  Alphathon ™ ( talk )


 * Thinking about it, wouldn't Mario Kart be counted under the Mario franchise anyway?  Alphathon ™ ( talk ) 20:00, 28 September 2010 (UTC)
 * If Mario Kart goes under Mario, so does DK. Despatche (talk) 17:36, 28 May 2011 (UTC)

where's the wii franchise
THis article is about how much a certain game franchise sells total. It includes different systems if the games are on different consoles. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Pokemas493 (talk • contribs) 04:44, 11 January 2010 (UTC)
 * We don't have a Wii franchise reference, though. Also, a Wii franchise could be original research, otherwise we could have a Super franchise during the SNES era, or a 64 franchise during the N64 one. -- ReyBrujo (talk) 18:00, 6 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Wii (series) states its total sales is 181.34 million with reference. --Kusunose 05:46, 31 May 2011 (UTC)

Get rid of the 5 million list?
With seemingly so many games selling in the 5 million range, should we get rid of the franchises that haven't yet sold 10 million units? 5 million sold for the whole franchise doesn't seem like as much of an accomplishment as it used to be. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 174.253.160.212 (talk) 01:25, 10 November 2011 (UTC)

Mario franchise is just the main platformer series
I think this should be cleared up to avoid any more confusion (and to give the Mario platformer series the proper credit it deserves); the (at the time of writing) 262 million sales is for the Super Mario platformers alone. The source that the 262 million number is from (which is basically from Nintendo themselves) says "more than 262 million games in the core Super Mario series have sold worldwide". Also, someone above has already added up the main platform series' sales (including remakes/re-releases) and as you can see it hits the (at the time of writing) number almost exactly. I mean, it's pretty obvious that if the number were to include all the Mario spin-off games (Kart, Party, Sports, etc) that it would be a hell of a lot more than 262 million. The Mario Kart franchise alone has sold over 80 million (which makes it all the more frustrating that Nintendo still hasn't put out an official statement on this, thus leaving Mario Kart ridiculously under-represented on this list).

In order to make it clear, unless there are any objections, I'm going to slightly re-word the entry, removing the "Mario has appeared in over 200 games" line as that creates the misconception that this number includes every single Mario spin-off game and have added a little more emphasis onto the main platformer series. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.186.231.63 (talk) 19:20, 14 November 2011 (UTC)

Reference Problems
Someone needs to fix a couple of the references - they are marked with "reference error". I would fix them, but I'm not sure what's wrong with them. Alphius (talk) 01:47, 20 November 2011 (UTC)

Outdated
This list seems very outdated.

We have articles and such that state indivual games in the Halo and CoD franchise have made upwards of 300 million dollars in revenue from US alone, so the stats we have for those franchises, and therefore can safely assume for others is VERY inccorect. 69.132.69.87 (talk) 19:19, 3 December 2011 (UTC)


 * Oh, my mistake, this goes by units sold. Perhaps a article should be made for it in revnue, or even fastest selling video games (revnenue from first 24 hours), or fastest entertainment releases ever. I have sources for those. 69.132.69.87 (talk) 19:55, 3 December 2011 (UTC)

Angry Birds
Shouldn't Angry Birds be on this list somewhere? Alphius (talk) 01:44, 20 November 2011 (UTC)
 * I'm thinking about it too... It's strange how it'd enter in the list though, being a franchise with far less depth than the others, being a mobile game... IMO it isn't very fair, we have to consider the incredible boost it got from getting into the top apps list of the original platform it was released. The market really changed a lot. PS. Also notice the Angry Birds Wikipedia article says 500 million downloads, not purchases of the paid versions. --Rafaelluik (talk) 16:37, 4 February 2012 (UTC)

Mario Kart 12 Million
According to this article, Mario Kart series sold only 12 million copies ? I'm sure there's something wrong here 65.95.5.90 (talk) 05:21, 20 February 2012 (UTC)

Oh well. Elder Scrolls is not mentioned at all, despite its latest entry selling upwards of ten million copies. So this list is basically worthless. 84.47.189.201 (talk) 13:21, 24 February 2012 (UTC)

Rhythm Heaven
75 million in Japan, 2 million in USA. Reference. -- ReyBrujo (talk) 00:02, 24 April 2012 (UTC)

Companies as franchises
This was discussed before, years ago, but I this topic should be brought up again. I've removed Nickelodeon, Disney, Pixar, and Dreamworks for the following reasons: Marvel technically isn't a franchise, but Marvel Universe is, and has been changed to the latter.--Gamerontheinternet (talk) 02:18, 9 June 2012 (UTC)
 * Nickelodeon, Pixar, Disney, and Dreamworks are companies and subsidiaries, not franchises. They own or make franchises, but are not franchises by themselves, for the same reason that Nintendo, Capcom, and Microsoft are not franchises. Spongebob, Cars, Mickey Mouse, and Shrek are franchises (Cars, in fact, is already included in the list).
 * The PR releases that are cited as references never actually refer to any of these companies as franchises. This PR release for THQ refers to Nickelodeon as a "portfolio," not a franchise.

Orphaned references in List of best-selling video game franchises
I check pages listed in Category:Pages with incorrect ref formatting to try to fix reference errors. One of the things I do is look for content for orphaned references in wikilinked articles. I have found content for some of List of best-selling video game franchises's orphans, the problem is that I found more than one version. I can't determine which (if any) is correct for this article, so I am asking for a sentient editor to look it over and copy the correct ref content into this article.

Reference named "bare_url": From Donna Summer:  From Tales (series):  From The Legend of Zelda:  From North America: What's the difference between North, Latin, Central, Middle, South, Spanish and Anglo America?, about.com 

I apologize if any of the above are effectively identical; I am just a simple computer program, so I can't determine whether minor differences are significant or not. AnomieBOT ⚡ 18:00, 19 August 2012 (UTC)

Little big planet?
Surely Little Big Planet must be their. the first one sold 3 million.

It then had a. Squeal Little big Planet 2, then little big planet PSP, then Little BIg Planet PS vita. Then Sackboy prehistoric moves and lastly Little Big Planet Karting.

http://images.search.yahoo.com/images/view;_ylt=A0PDoTDFubBQbxgAEOaJzbkF;_ylu=X3oDMTBlMTQ4cGxyBHNlYwNzcgRzbGsDaW1n?back=http%3A%2F%2Fimages.search.yahoo.com%2Fsearch%2Fimages%3Fp%3Dlittle%2Bbig%2Bplanet%26sado%3D1%26n%3D30%26ei%3Dutf-8%26fr%3Dipad%26fr2%3Dsg-gac%26tab%3Dorganic%26ri%3D4&w=1760&h=2022&imgurl=www.dlcoyun.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2010%2F10%2FLittleBigPlanet_PEGI_WM.jpg&rurl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.dlcoyun.com%2Fetiket%2Flittle-big-planet-ertelendi-mi%2F&size=1.5+KB&name=L%C4%B0ttle+%3Cb%3EBig+Planet+%3C%2Fb%3EErtelendi+0+Yorum+5+Ekim%2C+Sal%C4%B1&p=little+big+planet&oid=359bd25d8b0f2a3a8ce0b5b794b88338&fr2=sg-gac&fr=ipad&tt=L%25C4%25B0ttle%2B%253Cb%253EBig%2BPlanet%2B%253C%252Fb%253EErtelendi%2B0%2BYorum%2B5%2BEkim%252C%2BSal%25C4%25B1&b=0&ni=64&no=4&ts=&tab=organic&sigr=11tpad4u0&sigb=13peuh7fu&sigi=1261l0q04&.crumb=blxgxcQo2PF — Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.236.79.4 (talk) 12:14, 24 November 2012 (UTC)

Mario since 1980s
All the games that marrio has appear in has sold more the 1.1 billion should we put a spicacal  row in for them I.e 1 billon or more It me marrio. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.236.79.4 (talk) 15:47, 30 December 2012 (UTC)

Angery brids
Angry briads is the 2nd best selling at 1 billon game. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.236.79.4 (talk) 15:54, 30 December 2012 (UTC)

Angry briads part 2
So I was worng it is 1.12 billon And 12 million has been paid for. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.236.79.4 (talk) 15:58, 30 December 2012 (UTC)

Marrio
Marrio has sold 1.9 billon games — Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.236.79.4 (talk) 16:03, 30 December 2012 (UTC)

The smurfs
Has sold at lesat 60 million games — Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.236.79.4 (talk) 16:05, 30 December 2012 (UTC)

Marrio
It is 1'548'688'000 — Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.236.79.4 (talk) 16:21, 1 January 2013 (UTC)

Harry potter
Is book of spells part of the Harry potter franchise. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.236.79.4 (talk) 16:30, 1 January 2013 (UTC)

Fallout Series
The Fallout Series should be included somewhere on here. Fallout 3 alone sold 4.7 million in the opening week, and much more than that in total, let alone the other games in the series, such as Fallout 2, Fallout (Video game), and the spin-offs. Timeoin (talk) 08:24, 1 August 2010 (UTC)


 * Yeah, if you are to believe vgchartz (hint: you shouldn't), to date Fallout 3 have sold 7.93m retail copies and Fallout: New Vegas 6.67m. If anyone can find good sources, it should be added. 213.115.186.190 (talk) 14:36, 6 February 2013 (UTC)

Megami Tensei
Megami Tensei is a big and famous franchise. I was surprised to see it not listed. I'm looking for sources for sales, so if anyone knows anything, feel free to contribute. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.127.168.137 (talk) 03:19, 17 December 2012 (UTC)


 * The whole series has sold about 8 million copies according to this Famitsu article.--61.125.197.35 (talk) 14:58, 9 March 2013 (UTC)

LEGO game sales
What is the source for the sales of LEGO games? The cited link is only talking about LEGO games from 2005-2012 being 50 million. What's the reference for the 1997-2004 LEGO game sales? --Lair of Rockwhales (talk) 03:20, 12 July 2012 (UTC)
 * One of the LEGO Island games apparently sold 7 million units (making the 50 million estimation much higher), but I can't find proper information on the sales except the TT ones. --Lair of Rockwhales (talk) 02:40, 7 September 2012 (UTC)
 * Has any real number been found so far? --Lair of Rockwhales (talk) 13:39, 28 March 2013 (UTC)

Pokémon
Why isn't Pokémon #3 on this list? Wait 'till the gang over at Bulbapedia hears about this... —Preceding unsigned comment added by 173.104.253.67 (talk) 04:05, 5 October 2009 (UTC)
 * Technically it's #2. Sub-series don't count.173.59.36.206 (talk) 22:17, 23 April 2013 (UTC)

Dollars or Games Sold?
Why is this in number of games sold? US Dollars made would make more sense, as the Tap Tap series, whose games cost 0 - 5 dollars has likely made much less money than a series whose games cost about sixty dollars. I believe that an overhaul is needed, or at least information giving sales in terms of money. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.246.31.37 (talk) 00:33, 2 October 2010 (UTC)
 * This page is called "best-selling video game franchises" not "most profitable video game fanchises" 21:48, 16 May 2013 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.189.46.33 (talk)

Angry Birds, again
I really think Angry Birds should be somewhere on this list, if the information can be found. As a franchise, it's up to 1.7 billion downloads, and while I'm sure a lot of those are free, freemium or ad-supported, a hell of a lot of them come from platforms where the game costs money. Even discounting downloads that the user didn't directly pay for, it should be somewhere - the 360/PS3/3DS "Angry Birds Trilogy" release sold over a million copies and had a $40 RRP, according to http://uk.gamespot.com/news/angry-birds-trilogy-sells-1-million-6403987. I'd add it somewhere (if I felt like trolling, I'd take the 1.7b as "shipped" by the standards of the article's intro and slap it right up top) but I don't have the time to ferret out actual sales figures right now. 80.43.144.6 (talk) 09:55, 1 June 2013 (UTC)
 * I looked around a bit, and the CEO of Rovio claimed 12 million sales of Angry Birds during a 2010 interview (and 30 million downloads overall). While I don't have actual figures for current sales, and the claim of 1.7 billion downloads sounds like it would be inflated by free versions and people downloading the app more than once, 12 million is more than enough to justify adding it to the list in the 10m+ section. I'll try to get it done later on, if no-one does it first. 80.43.144.6 (talk) 10:07, 1 June 2013 (UTC)

Mario up to 700 million?!
Someone screwed up the Mario sales, I'm pretty sure the ones for "Super Mario" are wrong. Other than that, it really needs more checking. --Zettion (talk) 22:01, 12 June 2013 (UTC)

Super Smash Bros
I think we should include Super Smash Bros franchise. We have proper references for both the original N64 game and the gamecube game so why can't we have Super Smash bros in the list? - Gartheknight 24/03/08 —Preceding unsigned comment added by Gartheknight (talk • contribs) 19:43, 24 March 2008 (UTC)
 * "A sold X, B sold Y, the franchise is made of A and B, therefore the franchise sold X+Y" is considered Synthesis of published material serving to advance a position: "If the sources cited do not explicitly reach the same conclusion, or if the sources cited are not directly related to the subject of the article, then the editor is engaged in original research." Until we find a reliable source that says it sold over 5 million, we cannot include it. I found a blog post that said it sold over 10 millions (duh!), but no reliable site has ever stated "... Smash Bros series/franchise has sold over 10 million units since its first release..." or similar. -- ReyBrujo (talk) 03:33, 28 March 2008 (UTC)
 * And here I thought it was basic addition. My bad. 00:25, 29 April 2008 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 129.120.86.178 (talk)

The Smash Bros Series is Absent from the list, although my math shows that the 3 games combined sold 15.55 million copies (3.7 million from the original, between U.S and Japan, 7 million from Melee worldwide, and 4.85 from Brawl, worldwide, thus far)24.174.152.109 (talk) 01:46, 17 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Check my reply above. -- ReyBrujo (talk) 03:23, 17 June 2008 (UTC)

I'm sorry, but the reasoning used to not include Smash Bros is incredibly flawed. You refuse to include data based on that wikipedia rule... but by leaving out key data, the list loses its purpose - it's not a listing of franchises that have sold large numbers, it's a listing of franchises that have been bragged about by their companies, and thus the list is not encyclopaedic. While I can accept that the list should not claim anything that isn't verifiable, a decision must be made - is this a list of best-selling video game franchises, or is it a list of video game franchises for which explicit announcement of numbers for total sales of that franchise can be found? I posit that, if you are unable to at least use confirmable sales numbers for each game in the series as proof of total sales of the series, you must change the list's format and purpose, and find a way to bypass this issue... that, or alter the method by which a series' sales can be added to the list, to enable sensible inclusion of all best-selling video game franchises.

Otherwise, the choice to NOT include smash bros, for instance, in the list could itself be construed as a way to "advance a position". Indeed, just considering the fact that, in addition to not including Smash Bros, at least one other significant Nintendo franchise is missing (the Wii games franchise - Wii Sports, Wii Fit, etc - as well as Yoshi), while at least two major Nintendo franchises only include US numbers (Mario Kart and Mario Party), thus placing them far lower on the list than they should be, makes it appear that the list is actually underrepresenting Nintendo's contribution to the best-selling video game franchises - thus "advancing a position". I am sure that other publishers and developers similarly have significant franchises absent from the list. (side note: ATV Offroad Fury shouldn't be on that list as "almost 5 million", since the list requires at least 5 million. Similarly, Mobile Suit Gundam, Pixar, Gran Turismo, Kingdom Hearts, and Conflict should not be on the list with only "shipped" numbers, as shipped does not equal sold). Aielyn (talk) 16:17, 31 August 2008 (UTC)
 * We work by verifiability. If you want to put it in a way, yes, we must wait until someone brags the success of their franchise. We cannot make conclusions ourselves by adding up numbers, we are not a verifiable source ourselves. The list includes shipped values because it is within our definition of "best-selling" (which, yes, is our own). We put a list disclaimer, dynamic list, which establishes the list may never be completed, besides our general disclaimer which says data may not be accurate. Just to give you an idea, the list is lacking several franchises like Pac-Man, Contra, Gradius, Double Dragon, etc, etc. Sure, it is missing Nintendo franchises, but is also missing Capcom, Konami, Namco and many others. EA must have several multimillion games (like Tiger Woods and NHL) which are not included. It is a matter of waiting for the right bragging around. I believe the list is pretty good, I doubt you will find this kind of list anywhere.
 * And just for the sake of completion, according to reliable sources, I stated a reliable reference says Mario, Zelda and Donkey Kong sold collectively 350 million units. Our numbers add up to 300 million, so we are missing 50 million units. However, we prefer waiting for reliable sources to appear instead of guessing.
 * The ATV Offroad case is similar to the old list, where the cut was 10 million, and I added Battlefield which had sold back then 9.9m and people discussed against it. My opinion is always the same: if the difference is negligible (100k in 10m is 1%, "almost 5 million" is much better than "over 4 million", etc) it could be included. However, if people don't really think it should, it can be removed until a newer reference comes up. -- ReyBrujo (talk) 17:13, 31 August 2008 (UTC)
 * I understand how wikipedia works. I take issue with this list because it is incomplete in a manner that is highly questionable. Yes, it is openly stated that it is an incomplete list... but the list is known to have incorrect data on it, yet that data remains on there anyway. As you said, it is known that Mario, Zelda, and Donkey Kong together have sold at least 350 million, but the data here only says 300 million, thus indicating that the contents of the page are known to be false... but they are kept anyway. This is not appropriate for what is supposed to be a place for facts. Indeed, based on the fact that wikipedia doesn't allow the approach that is necessary to complete the list, I feel that the list is actually non-encyclopaedic.
 * Fortunately, Wikipedia provides an "out" for this sort of situation - Ignore all rules. By applying the rule regarding "Synthesis of published material serving to advance a position", the list is actually harmed - the list loses its accuracy and effectiveness because out-of-date data gets used even when newer data is available, while other data gets left off entirely, not because it's not available, but because it's not in the optimal form.
 * As such, I recommend that the "Ignore All Rules" rule be applied, here, and simple summation of available data should be allowed, so long as the original data is both included and sourced. Indeed, the key here is that the SYN rule specifically says "to advance a position" - summing sales numbers for games in a franchise would not be advancing a position - there is no opinion involved. It would be no different from listing total sales of a console based on the number sold in each region separately - it's not advancing a position, it is simply collating all available information. "Synthesis of published material serving to advance a position" talks about taking A and B, and drawing a conclusion based on the two combined... but this rule is broken routinely on wikipedia if you interpret it so strictly - a good example is on the "list of Wii games", which has the list... and then, at the top of the page, says how many titles have been released for the Wii, determined by counting the number of entries on the list. Sure, it's technically synthesis of data, but it's not actual research, just basic arithmetic.
 * Obviously, the "Ignore all rules" rule doesn't just nullify all rules - one can only break a rule if it can be demonstrated that doing so actually improves the article. Well, in this case, breaking the "synthesis" rule makes the article better, so I suggest we ignore the troublesome rule. As per the What "Ignore all rules" means explanatory essay, this means that the question now becomes whether the consensus supports this break of that rule or not. Aielyn (talk) 06:28, 1 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Before invoking IAR, remember one of our core policies: The threshold for inclusion in Wikipedia is verifiability, not truth—that is, whether readers are able to check that material added to Wikipedia has already been published by a reliable source, not whether we think it is true. In other words, we don't care if the information here is outdated, we only care whether about it is verifiable or not. This very simple policy allows Wikipedia (and this article between millions) to exist. That one article breaks SYN does not mean this article could break it as well, it is like saying just because one article does not use references this one should not use them as well.
 * There have been many complains before (Halo, GTA, even Smash Bros itself) that the list is outdated. And so far, waiting for a correct reference has always paid off. Even if other lists suffer of SYN, this one does not, and I (and I guess many others) would like it to be this way for the time being. -- ReyBrujo (talk) 12:30, 1 September 2008 (UTC)
 * I'm not suggesting that we discard verifiability, just the synthesis rule. It would require a change to the format of the list, perhaps, but I think it would be more reasonable than the current approach of "if there's no single source claiming a total value, don't even include the game on the list". Verifiability is important, but it shouldn't trump correctness - that is, if the information is known to be wrong, it shouldn't matter that it can be verified, it's still wrong. Including information that is now known to be incorrect is like doing an analysis of an experiment and finding that the experiment's conclusions are wrong, but believing the conclusions anyway because no alternative experiment exists with correct conclusions. You can hide behind rules all you want, but this is a matter of common sense (which is also a rule - I like the irony in all this).
 * All it would require is allowing multiple sources to be combined to get the number - the numbers should still be verifiable through sources, but if the article can be made more accurate by combining multiple sources, without in any way actually advancing a position, I do not see why this should be something opposable.
 * On a side note, I think the list would be better with the descriptions of the franchises removed - those descriptions should be available on the respective pages for the franchises. Aielyn (talk) 02:52, 2 September 2008 (UTC)

All sources say A sold __, B sold __, C sold __... I don't really understand the problem with adding those three numbers together. How do you think people get the final tally anyway? As of September 2008 SSB has sold over 17 million games. Just put it on the freaking list. 24.34.75.122 (talk) 03:57, 12 November 2008 (UTC)
 * It is not our task to add them up, besides we cannot do that. What is the problem in waiting until someone respectable does that? There are many older and more known franchises (Pac-Man, Contra, Gradius, etc) that aren't in the list. -- ReyBrujo (talk) 12:51, 12 November 2008 (UTC)

I'm aware of the original research rule, but surely that was never meant to apply to the simple addition of sales numbers? We're not re-interpreting anything, just collating numbers. Much as I respect the work that you've done on this article Rey, I think that your interpretation of the SYN rule is incorrect. If we can quote the references for the individual games and then present the total as an amalgam of them, I don't see how that is original research, just a best estimate given the available references. With regard to "waiting until someone respectable does that", I think that you underestimate the esteem in which wikipedia is held now. Many journalists, internet or otherwise (and lazy or not) use wikipedia as the source of their stats. If we don't get them right now, who's to say that anyone else will bother? Especially as older webpages disappear and the facts held there disappear too. Facts (as best as we can get them) and which can be preserved for posterity here will be lost because we were reluctant to break rules that were never set in stone anyway. I think that would be a shame and an error on our behalves. Danno uk (talk) 00:54, 17 November 2008 (UTC)

It may be worth noting that since this discussion, No original research has seen the addition of a note saying that "this policy does not forbid routine calculations, such as adding numbers"... -xx521xx (talk) 12:53, 2 August 2009 (UTC)


 * Anyone wish to argue with the above reply, or can we preceed with the changes?65.175.159.182 (talk) 09:58, 28 November 2009 (UTC)
 * We should create a list of franchises that would be added in this way. I still don't like the idea because people would start adding numbers on top of franchise numbers (for example, if a new CoD game is released and sells 10m units, they would add the old franchise amount (55m) and add 10m instead of waiting for a reference that gives the new amount. Maybe we can create the list and add it to the article as "Incomplete information" or something like that, to demonstrate it is not in the same level of the other (because we are "assuming" which games belong to a franchise). -- ReyBrujo (talk) 17:39, 28 November 2009 (UTC)

This is a franchise that has sold a significant amount of copies, and should have a spot oon this list. Otherwise, this list loses accuracy as stated above, and for simplicity sakes, could probably be deleted. -- ZeWrestler  Talk 21:08, 15 August 2010 (UTC)

This discussion is totally ridiculous. These numbers are entirely verifiable and addition is not overstepping Wikipedia's boundaries. If you can validly say "A sold X and B sold Y", you can definitely validly say "A and B together sold X+Y". This is simply semantic rephrasing; if it is disallowed, Wikipedia should be nothing but direct quotes. 21:55, 16 May 2013 (UTC)~

Here, people. You have figures on the Wikipedia pages for SSB, Melee, and Brawl - and I quote - "Super Smash Bros. received mostly positive reviews from the media and was commercially successful, selling over 4.9 million copies, with 2.93 and 1.97 million copies sold in the United States and Japan, respectively." and "The game [Super Smash Bros. Melee] received universal acclaim from the media, as well as awards and acknowledgements from gaming publications. It achieved strong sales upon release, and is the GameCube's best-selling game, with more than 7 million copies sold as of March 10, 2008." and "As of March 2012, it [Brawl] is the eighth best-selling Wii game by selling a total of 10.79 million copies worldwide." Moreover, here are two articles that clearly indicate that Super Smash Bros Brawl alone has sold more than ten million copies - and one of them goes further, showing that the entire franchise sales total up to some 23 million. . . here and here. If reputable news articles and other sales figures that tell you that Super Smash at least warrants a place on the list - Melee or Brawl alone could get on this list, they've sold over five million copies each, as it's universally acknowledged, and Super Smash Bros sold some 4.9 million, most say. It's its own franchise on its own - even while the characters are from individual franchises, the World of Trophies / Subspace / Taboo / Galleom / Duron / Master and Crazy Hand et cetera are from Smash alone, and so it's more of a spinoff franchise, almost like Jumpman and the Lady from Donkey Kong (Mario and Peach) y'know. Also, the 'more-known' and older Pac-Man has been put on this list. . . 23 million copies is most likely more than half the games on the list. Okay? If there's no reasonable objections soon, I'm going ahead and putting it on the list - the general consensus is "yes, it SHOULD be on the list" anyway, and yet none of us have put it up there. Soon enough, there will be five games in the series, and there's no reason for Smash NOT to be on this list. 68.99.140.120 (talk) 17:00, 17 July 2013 (UTC)

Call of Duty
Call of Duty is listed in 5th place at over 120 million copies sold, but there are three franchises below that which have sold more than Call of Duty. Those three franchises are The Sims at over 150 million, Grand Theft Auto at over 125 million, and Tetris which is also at over 125 million. So Call of Duty should be behind those three franchises. Can you please fix that? Alex032691 (talk) 23:50, 20 July 2013 (UTC)

Sonic the Hedgehog sales
The Sonic the Hedgehog series sold 140 million  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 173.19.180.26 (talk) 00:24, 4 October 2013 (UTC)
 * The problem is that ref specifically says 'sold or downloaded' meaning some of the apps may have been free, and just downloaded, which technically isn't a sale. But if you find another source, please be bold and add it! Thanks,  Dark Toon Link Heyaah! 00:32, 4 October 2013 (UTC)

The Last Ninja series
According to the numbers listed on the pages for The Last Ninja 1 2 and 3 has sold 12.5 million copies on the commodore 64 alone. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 217.118.57.153 (talk) 14:29, 29 March 2014 (UTC)

Just Dance is Inflated
I wanted to check with some people before I changed it, but it makes no sense to include games NOT in the Just Dance franchise together with Just Dance just because they are all from Ubisoft. It makes no logical sense. TheRealAfroMan (talk) 19:24, 7 April 2014 (UTC)

Minecraft
I didn't add minecraft, I just updated their sale but then another guy just removed the whole thing. Just want to make sure if he made the correct thing. He stated that minecraft is not a franchise, it's a single game. By my calculations, minecraft was on the 49M. Esimene (talk) 15:46, 8 May 2014 (UTC)

Split Mario?
Why is Mario counted TWICE as Super Mario and Mario in the first two lines? The Super Mario is a subset of Mario and should NOT be listed a second time!!§ — Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.182.239.10 (talk) 18:53, 27 May 2014 (UTC)
 * Re-read the article. It states that the "yellow" coloured boxes indicate that the series is part of another franchise. The "Super Mario" sales are included in the "Mario" sales. The reason "Super Mario" is also listed separated is probably because it is the highest selling Mario series, and also because it is considered to be the "main series". --Zettion (talk) 12:50, 31 May 2014 (UTC)

LBP
Should Little Big Planet — Preceding unsigned comment added by 77.101.38.140 (talk) 09:57, 17 June 2014 (UTC)

no
can we have number of game in series? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 77.102.93.78 (talk) 12:37, 22 August 2014 (UTC)

Delete under 10 million
Article is getting too large, Carnival Games is at 7.5 million because it's mass produced shovelware. Article should just cover 10 million and up.--Vaypertrail (talk) 23:35, 3 May 2014 (UTC)
 * The article is indeed huge and slow to open and edit. But instead of deleting the work done, I propose we split under 20 million into another article. Rodze (talk) 01:24, 17 October 2014 (UTC)

Somebody needs to keep an eye on Mortal Kombat
Somebody needs to update the Mortal Kombat sales soon. With Mortal Kombat (2011) released and outselling just about everyother fighting game ever made, somebody needs to calculate those sales. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.162.154.129 (talk) 05:32, 2 May 2011 (UTC)

There is no proof that Mortal Kombat (2011) had sold well or better than other games of it's time. Lifetime sales of Mortal Kombat (2011) preceding the now current Mortal Kombat X (2015) were only 3 million unit sales. Furthermore, Mortal Kombat has been removed from the article entirely for not having any cited sales numbers or evidence to back up the claim the franchise had sold 40+ million units worldwide, with various independent sales charts pointing more towards the 10 million range. Should Mortal Kombat be appropriated for this article, it needs accurate sales units and not deceptive over-exaggerations. 24.205.110.111 (talk) 20:01, 12 June 2015 (UTC)

Mount Blade series
http://www.pcgamer.com/mount-blade-series-has-sold-6-million-copies/ — Preceding unsigned comment added by Cibili (talk • contribs) 21:10, 31 August 2015 (UTC)

Forza Franchise
The Forza franchise is stated to be over $10 Mil as of Feb 2010 in the Forza Wikipedia post. Surely with the additions to the franchise since 2010, the total earnings should be well on the way to $100 M by now. SquashEngineer (talk) 15:36, 30 September 2015 (UTC)

Tetris Sales Update
So while searching around I found this interview with Henk Rogers, Founder of The Tetris Company

http://venturebeat.com/2014/04/07/mr-tetris-explains-why-the-puzzle-game-is-still-popular-after-three-decades-interview/

According to him the total sales of the Tetris franchise currently stands at 495 million (425 million mobile, 70 million boxed). And no the mobile figure is just for paid downloads, it doesn't include freemium downloads as you can see in the quotes below:

"Rogers: We have 425 million total paid mobile downloads. That’s all just on mobile. We had 35 million on the original Game Boy. Boxed products, I think altogether we sold something like 70 million."

"Rogers: Yeah, we have made that jump. That 425 million number doesn’t count free-to-play. We have Tetris Blitz now. Electronic Arts secured the mobile rights and decided to do a product that’s similar to their Bejeweled Blitz, a free, item-based game. That’s another level on top of the 425 million paid downloads." — Preceding unsigned comment added by Fares.Ketbi (talk • contribs) 17:16, 13 December 2015 (UTC)

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Sonic Dash Greatly Increased Sales For The Sonic Franchise
Should the fact that Sonic Dash was downloaded over 100 million times mean that the figures for the Sonic franchise of this list should be greatly increased? Or does it already include them?
 * No. This list does not consider downloads because they include include free and free-to-play game downloads. If the list did consider such downloads, then the entire list would be radically different thanks to the downloads of so many free-to-play games out there. It's also impossible to tell how many people who downloaded the game payed for the game's microtransactions, which are another issue in itself. Sonic Dash ' s downloads should not be considered because it is a free-to-play game, and Sega has not revealed how many of those resulted in microtransactions. Video game companies, especially those in mobile gaming, like to tout downloads of their free-to-play games to inflate their standing to investors.--WPA (talk) 18:08, 23 November 2015 (UTC)
 * If that is our criteria, Sonic should be at 80+ million, not 335 million.TheTimesAreAChanging (talk) 06:26, 27 November 2015 (UTC)
 * An IP keeps on re-adding that 335 million figure. When you consider the number of Sonic games, and how much they typically sell, it's literally seems impossible to add up to 335 million without using free downloads. It looks like you guys shared the same concern, but I'll ping you to see if your stance has changed. Has it, or  - let me know.  Sergecross73   msg me  13:47, 12 May 2016 (UTC)
 * In response, to Sergecross, I feel like the free downloads not counting toward sales should just be thrown out. Also, the report from SEGASAMMY in question did not specfically mention that free-to-play games were a factor in the series sales. 198.108.244.62 (talk) 17:13, 12 May 2016 (UTC)
 * Right, the report doesn't state either way, right? But if its not stated, there's no reason to assume they wouldn't be included. Not to mention, again, that 335 million is just too high to get to otherwise. I mean, look at the sales chart at Sonic the Hedgehog. Its not complete, and there are outliers, but as you can see, most of the mainline series tend to sell between 1 and 2 million. The spinoffs and little Game Gear titles, much less. In order to get to that 335 million sold section without f2p app downloads, to make the math work, you'd need like each main entry to sell more like 15-20 million copies, or have like 100-150 mainline titles selling their 1 or 2 million. Neither scenario is true to reality. Sergecross73   msg me  17:23, 12 May 2016 (UTC)
 * Actually, Sega's 2015 annual report, page 29, is perfectly clear regarding the fact that 335 million is counting all "units/downloads"—and apparently Sonic-themed pachislot/pachinko machines, arcade cabinets, and even toys to boot. However, the 140 million estimate from Sega's 2014 report is no more useful for our purposes, although it is easier to see how they could have arrived at the figure. (After all, it is commonly claimed that Sonic 1 and Sonic 2 sold a combined 21 million units on the Genesis alone, either on their own or bundled with the system. If you add that 21 million to the over 8 million paid downloads for the mobile version of Sonic 1—not to mention stuff like the 3D Classics remasterings and iOS/Android "remakes" of Sonic 1 and 2—as well as the 100 million+ downloads for Sonic Dash, you can reach close to 140 million units/downloads on the strength of Sonic 1/2/Dash alone. In fact, because the Mario & Sonic series has sold in excess of Sonic 1/2 ' s estimated 21 million, you might even be able to approach 140 million with just Mario & Sonic and Sonic Dash—but that's only by counting many tens of millions of free downloads.) In terms of packaged game sales—what this article is trying to measure—Wikipedia's main article on Sonic the Hedgehog puts the series total at 85.69 million, composed of an estimated "over 80 million units" sold as of June 2011 and the subsequent sales of Sonic Generations (1.63 million), Mario & Sonic at the London 2012 Olympic Games (2.7 million), and Sonic & All-Stars Racing Transformed (1.36 million). (Of course, that's more than a million short of where the cumulative total would be if it had been updated to reflect anything released after 2012.) But how good is that 80 million baseline in the first place? While it might seem high, one of the major contributors to the NeoGAF "Retro Sales Age Thread" that produced near-definitive numbers for most of Sega's hardware platforms put the series shipment total at 78 million as of December 2014, so it's probably not too far off, and should be used here (with or without some additional WP:CALC) instead of 140 million (NeoGAF, unfortunately, not qualifying as a WP:RS). I simply gave up trying to maintain the 80 million figure after it became clear that a never-ending stream of IPs—convinced that higher numbers are automatically more complete—would constantly edit war to reinsert their preferred sum, and that these IPs care more about "correcting" Wikipedia on this point than I do. All that said, Serge, while I understand why you deleted this sentence, there ideally should be some acknowledgement in the lead that Sonic really is noteworthy for its sales and popularity over time, exaggerated statistics notwithstanding.TheTimesAreAChanging (talk) 00:19, 13 May 2016 (UTC)
 * That's fine, I agree, there should be some mention in the lead in regards to the sales - they're no doubt notable and relatively high in the scheme of things in the industry. I just had no idea what the best figure to mention would be, so I merely reverted his whole edit. I fully support re-adding content once we can agree what the figure is. Sergecross73   msg me  01:23, 13 May 2016 (UTC)

So, to reiterate, Sonic had shipped slightly over 75 million physical units as of December 2014 (of which about one-third were Genesis cartridges, about one-third were the Mario & Sonic games, and about one-third were everything else Sonic, broadly construed). While I can't cite NeoGAF directly—even though that "Retro Age Sales Thread" is filled with fascinating information from industry sources—combining the cited 80 million baseline from June 2011 with publicly available figures for subsequent releases yields a rough total of 87.82 million. To put that in perspective, that's more than Zelda! Note, however, that this could overstate the real number by as much as 9.2 million, although it does not include the recent Mario & Sonic at the Rio 2016 Olympic Games.TheTimesAreAChanging (talk) 07:14, 8 September 2016 (UTC)

So, can we get some confirmation on this Sonic thing? I haven't visited this page in a while and I've seen that the Sonic franchise has suddenly taken a massive jump. Is this because of Sonic Dash downloads, because the intro to the article says that free-to-play downloads should not figure into the sales figures. Thanks. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Haywired (talk • contribs) 16:08, 10 February 2017 (UTC)

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Long list
Your list is too long, it's better if it was short and then it will be interesting to read it. For example list of the best-selling video games of all time (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_best-selling_video_games) and List of the highest-grossing video game franchises (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_the_highest-grossing_video_game_franchises). This two list is short and that's the only reason they are interesting and take less time to look at them. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 217.219.70.34 (talk) 13:42, 3 December 2017 (UTC)

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Why the various Sim games not all counted as one?
I believe they should all count as one. There are several characters that make appearances in both The Sims and Sim City.Schnapps17 (talk) 01:59, 13 May 2018 (UTC)

FIFA sales
I was watching this and 25 seconds in it says FIFA has sold 150 million worldwide.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MRzPSxRHlN4

Do you think a youtube source is good? Seems kind of strange, but the channel itself is the official US Soccer channel, so it's not like its a fan statement69.108.65.150 (talk) 07:36, 29 May 2018 (UTC)