Talk:List of career achievements by Michael Jordan

Vertical Leap
A vertical leap of 48 inches would put his head 6 inches above the rim. Jordan barely hit his head on the rim, so 48 inches is definitely wrong. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.207.176.74 (talk) 14:34, 10 November 2009 (UTC) http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/article/magazine/MAG1065465/index.htm "I've never had my vertical leap measured" —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.207.176.74 (talk) 08:56, 3 December 2009 (UTC)

That article is from 1986. His vertical leap was measured since then. In his prime, he peaked out at 48 inches. Furthermore, Jordan reached eye level with the rim on several occasions.Hoops gza (talk) 10:24, 3 December 2009 (UTC) ->

Please proof where it was measured. There is no clear picture where Jordan reaches eye-level with the rim. All videos and pictures are made from distorting angle. In the internet you only find rumors about an UNC Study where is vertical was measured at 45.76 inches. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.207.176.74 (talk) 10:51, 3 December 2009 (UTC)

Dubious Stats
This page has a lot of dubious and little known stats like usage rate and win shares. I assume these are some of the new mathematical formula stats for basketball like baseball's sabermetrics. I think some of them need to go as they are comprehensible to only a few people and probably of interest to even less.Quadzilla99 21:13, 11 December 2006 (UTC)
 * Considering that this is an individual player's achievements' page, and they are records, and they are acknowledged by statistical reference and analysis places, I think that they should be noted, perhaps in a separate section of achievements.--TyrusThomas4lyf 10:23, 4 May 2007 (UTC)

Sorting Stats
I'm trying to sort the stats better. Just spent sometime separating it into subsections, but I don't think that works best. I think the Holds Records for X, and Ranks among X is better. The only thing is, certain stats don't fit anywhere, so there might have to be a new subsection..or maybe just place them under accomplishments, i.e. "Led his team to an All-Time NBA best 72-10 club record" or whatever. Also the Chicago Bulls club records need to be sorted better, and i'm sure there's tons of data missing on that. Any ideas or contributions are welcomed. Zodiiak 21:01, 19 March 2007 (UTC)
 * Ok, took care of it and added some more stats. Zodiiak 03:12, 20 March 2007 (UTC)

Problematic edits by IlliniPride / 68.253.206.119 / TyrusThomas4lyf
Over the past 1-2 days, user IlliniPride has inserted numerous unsourced entries into this article. In scanning this article, I have found more than a dozen errors and/or omissions, many of which (perhaps even all) which can be traced to this user. I understand that people make mistakes. I've seen supposedly knowledgeable members of WikiProject National Basketball Association make factually erroneous edits in the past, and I quietly correct them since I understand that the edits (although undesirable) were made in good faith. But the volume of errors made by IlliniPride in such a short time suggests one of two things. Either this user is maliciously entering falsehoods, or this user is recklessly careless with the "facts". For now, I will assume the latter. . . but a quick look at the nature of the mistakes I've uncovered show errors that could not possibly have come from reliable source material. This user must (if making edits in good faith) be guessing or inflating claims and leaving it for more careful persons to clean up his/her mess. This is irresponsible and ultimately harmful to Wikipedia. That being said, I would like others to participate in validating IlliniPride's edits over the past few days since I would be surprised if I caught them all. In particular, I did not check the Chicago Bulls club records section. Myasuda 00:46, 23 March 2007 (UTC)
 * I've noticed the user adding some new supposed records, but I didn't have the chance to verify them. I've briefly scanned the Jordan Chicago Bulls records and removed a few that were actually pertaining to his Total career stats (bulls + wizards).  When I get the opportunity, I'll dig into it deeper, but for the most part, it seems fairly accurate, and theirs alot of noteable stats missing.  I'll keep a close eye on the new statistics added. Zodiiak 03:45, 23 March 2007 (UTC)

A few suggestions
Here's a couple of suggestions for the article: "All-Time" is redundant, first off it should be All-time, but the All-Time statement is redundant. Ask yourself is there any statistics such as 2nd 1980-1990, most points (x,xxx). When you say he holds the record for highest career average it's implied that it's all-time unless otherwise stated. See how this looks without All-Time:

Holds NBA regular season records for:
 * Highest scoring average, career (30.12)
 * Most consecutive games scoring in double-digits (866)
 * Most consecutive seasons leading the league in scoring (7, 1986-87 through 1992-93)
 * Shared with Wilt Chamberlain


 * Most seasons leading the league in scoring average (10)
 * Most seasons leading the league in total points (11)
 * Most seasons leading the league in field-goals made (10)
 * Most consecutive seasons leading the league in field-goals made (7)
 * Shared with Wilt Chamberlain

This works for 90% of the article, a couple of mods have to be made to make it work in some cases but the All-Time is redundant and you know how copyeditors feel about redundancy. Also makes it somewhat hard to read. Also, the career stats table should be wikified, although that's a pain in the ass. I started added the starting lineups to the Super Bowls and got about 1/3 of the way done before I quit (for now) due to the tediousness of it. Looks kind of nice in the ones I did though see here in Super Bowl I. Quadzilla99 06:27, 1 April 2007 (UTC)
 * I added the 'All-time' notes because of the way the page was structured before. It made it seem as if it was his own personal accomplishments, rather than NBA records. However, the way it's structured now, it might actually work without the All-time mentions.  Certain adjustments will need to be made, but i'll take care of it =)  Zodiiak 16:18, 1 April 2007 (UTC)
 * Ok, I removed the All-time notes and also the 'Most' mentions, as that also seems redundant if you state 'Holds Records for' and 'Rank among NBA leaders in other stats.' Feel free to edit Zodiiak 17:54, 1 April 2007 (UTC)

All-time stat edits
If you're going to remove data, you should provide proof of it, don't just remove it without explanation. The stat for minutes is sited is from nba.com all-time leaders. The NBA has it's own minimum qualifications required for all-time regular season leaders...it is not outdated, and was updated as of this year. Iverson, and those other active players are mentioned in the playoff all-time leaders, and other areas (within regular season) because they qualify for that area. You should only revert the edits if you have something that has higher precedence than nba.com. Zodiiak 03:55, 15 April 2007 (UTC)
 * It should have been clear to you that what the query at http://www.nba.com/statistics/default_all_time_leaders/AllTimeLeadersMPGQuery.html?topic=4&stat=16 is extracting is merely a sort by minutes per game of the 30 players who played the most minutes in their career: see the middle column at http://www.basketball-reference.com/leaders/MP_career.html . This is obviously not the same as a list of players with the most minutes per game for their career.  For one example that invalidates the ranking you support, look at the career mpg for Elgin Baylor http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/b/bayloel01.html.  I'll leave it to you to re-revert your mistake.  Myasuda 04:39, 15 April 2007 (UTC)
 * What are requirements for minutes per game average? --Ogp 04:45, 15 April 2007 (UTC)
 * According to my edition of "The Official NBA Basketball Encyclopedia" (ISBN 0-679-43293-0), the minimum requirement for regular season career minutes per game is 400 games played (exactly as you stated in your edit summary). Myasuda 05:00, 15 April 2007 (UTC)


 * I'm not entirely sure basketball-reference has it right. For example, they list Moses Malone as having played 49,444 minutes, where as nba's query has him as playing 45,071. Reason? Because Moses Malone registered those minutes in the ABA not NBA. This page lists the career achievements of Michael Jordan and ranks him among those of the NBA's all-time leaders. That "invalidates" the ranking system you support. As for minutes per game, you're right, they are sorting the top 30 players with the most minutes in their career...maybe that's what they deem as the best way to judge the All-time leaders for minutes per game? Either way, I'll make a note of it. Zodiiak 05:23, 15 April 2007 (UTC)
 * The site http://www.basketball-reference.com does have it right for career minutes played, of course. You just have to look at the middle column as I stated above.  But, yes, you were correct on the career minutes played ranking.  The correction should only have been for the minutes per game data (and therefore should not have been a full revert).  Myasuda 05:36, 15 April 2007 (UTC)
 * True. I was making a note of it, but after writing it, it didn't even seem noteable anymore "5th, minutes per game average among the 30 all-time leaders in minutes played." I'm not one of them editors who likes to put ridiculously specific stats to fluff up a page (such as those seen in other player pages). As such, it's better to just not include it...thanks for the input =) Zodiiak 05:45, 15 April 2007 (UTC)

3RR
Please be mindful of the three revert rule. Discussion (and consensus) on this talk page is a much better solution than revert warring. --PS2pcGAMER (talk) 20:51, 25 April 2007 (UTC)

Stats/Game Logs References
A user has demanded that a second source for Jordan's career statistics and game logs be added to the references/external links sections. This would of course not be a problem if it weren't for the fact that it is redundant and in fact offers less information than the original source. basketball-reference.com (the original source) has game logs all the way back to the 1986-87 season, while databasebasketball.com only tracks to the 1991 season. Furthmore, basketball-reference.com provides more in-depth statistical analysis than is typically found at databasebasketball.com. Furthermore, there is nothing found at databasebasketball.com that cannot be found at basketball-reference.com. For these reasons, only basketball-reference.com should be linked. TyrusThomas4lyf 7:16, 27 April 2007 (UTC)
 * The site has been described in Sports Illustrated as a comprehensive source with Britannica like accuracy: Also referred to in reverant tones by Bill Simmons: So while you're opinion is valuable it doesn't help with RS. Also the site you prefer has a really unrpofessional stats table that looks almost cut and pasted form elsewhere. Here's another source discussing ths site: Besides in this case there's a small EL section we generally only worry about cutting EL sections when they grow long. Thanks though. Quadzilla99 13:00, 27 April 2007 (UTC)
 * What do you mean by "EL"? Critical praise/references does not make one site more reliable than another.  The bottom line is that basketball-reference.com provides significantly more coverage and more in-depth coverage.  It offers information for achievements posted here that could not otherwise be verified (such as with databasebasketball.com).  Your opinion of the "layout" or appearance of the site has nothing to do with its content and relevance.--TyrusThomas4lyf 23:51, 27 April 2007 (UTC)
 * The reverts are pointless. It's an external link for crying out loud guys. The article discusses the career achievements of Michael Jordan, the more information about his statistics the better. Leave them both in, it's not distracting at all, and it's always great to have one source that can compliment the other or act as a backup for the other. That's my vote, include. Zodiiak 23:56, 27 April 2007 (UTC)
 * Exactly I was never removing the other one. As I was saying though if only one were included the one that has been proven to rise to WP:RS (databasebasketball) should stay. Anyways as for the summary of Tyrus see WP:OR. Quadzilla99 00:01, 28 April 2007 (UTC)

User RfC related to this article
See Requests for comment/TyrusThomas4lyf. Quadzilla99 11:15, 4 May 2007 (UTC)

Mistakes
I removed the line in Regular Season "Other" that said "only player in NBA history to be Most Valuable Player and Defensive Player of the Year in same season". This isn't true: Hakeem Olajuwon was MVP and DPoY in 1993-94. (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/o/olajuha01.html) I believe there are a few more mistakes in that section but no time to fix now. (e.g. Hakeem never won a scoring title as it says somewhere there). —Preceding unsigned comment added by 140.180.138.251 (talk) 15:33, 17 September 2007 (UTC)

I found a mistake in the game-winning shots table. In the Chicago Bulls @ New Jersey Nets game of March 16, 1996, 15 seconds before the end of 4th quarter with a score of 93-91 for Chicago, Jordan was fouled twice and scored all 4 fouls. this match cannot be in this table because don't have game-winning shots situation. There is the video from the game: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jhO9qXex4wE Just watch the last 15 seconds from the game.

Best regards: Rosen

incomplete list of players to lead team in four statistics in a season
Bird, Brand, Garnett, Hill, Kirilenko, Lever, Marion, Nowitzki, Odom, Olajuwon, Robinson, Webber. --Ogp (talk) 06:39, 9 February 2008 (UTC)

Drop some hard-to-maintain sections?
I would like to hear what other editors think about dropping the article sections "Ranks 4th in NBA history" and possibly also "Ranks 3rd in NBA history". News reports will usually note when an old record is broken, and they will occasionally also note when a sports player achieves the next-best mark. But for 3rd and 4th best marks. . . I don't think one could count on news reports to consistently note when these marks are eclipsed, and many of the listed categories of records are not accessible via the standard basketball databases.

Last month, I noticed that quite a few entries in this article's "NBA records" and "Ranks 2nd in NBA history" sections needed to be demoted due to them being surpassed over the past few years. It would be surprising if none of the entries in the "Ranks 3rd in NBA history" and "Ranks 4th in NBA history" sections needed to be demoted as well. Rather than worrying over the validity of the entries in these sections, I would like to consider simply removing them. This article is large enough as it is. Thoughts? &mdash; Myasuda (talk) 01:18, 20 July 2012 (UTC)
 * Since there were no objections, I've dropped the sections indicated above. For reference, the last version containing them is  and the diff from the drop is: . Note that there are a number of "see below" references that will eventually need to be cleaned up.  &mdash; Myasuda (talk) 16:41, 3 August 2012 (UTC)

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