Talk:List of catgirls and catboys/Archive 1

Apologies
I wasn't aware that Tigra was included.Sorry. - R.G. 06:26, 17 September 2007 (UTC)

Intress from chaotic?
Intress from the cartoon and card game Chaotic, should be listed here...somewhere.. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.118.123.125 (talk) 05:24, 11 May 2008 (UTC)

Gegege no kitaro Neko Musume character?
Neko Musume (a yokai catgirl from Gegege no Kitaro) is a classic catgirl from 1959! Where is she? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.233.65.60 (talk) 02:44, 20 January 2009 (UTC)

Nekomusume?
What's the definition of the nekomusume category? What differentiates this category from the others? --Jonathan Drain (talk) 21:13, 10 March 2009 (UTC)

Catboys?
The article contains a section on "catboys". Given the title of the article, should this section be removed? Sincerely, --A NobodyMy talk 23:34, 21 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Actually, there was an entirely separate article on catboys at one point - it was AfD'd. 159.182.1.4 (talk) 12:16, 25 March 2009 (UTC)

Wait, what?
Shouldn't "catgirls" in the title be capitalized? --97.123.0.179 (talk) 19:59, 26 July 2010 (UTC)

Huh?
Why does this page exist? It seems absolutely pointless. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.165.186.81 (talk) 05:18, 15 February 2008 (UTC)


 * This article is the result of a compromise between the people who wanted the list to be included in the actual catgirl article, and the people who didn't want there to be a list at all. 216.59.230.119 (talk) 03:19, 2 June 2008 (UTC)

Bast is clearly not a catgirl. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.68.131.66 (talk) 18:38, 4 April 2008 (UTC)

Like the late Diego Bank (talk) 05:29, 24 August 2010 (UTC)

What would batman say?
I love the way that cat woman isn't in there. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 143.167.172.109 (talk) 06:00, 25 November 2010 (UTC)

New title
Even though the word literally names just the ears, "nekomimi" actually means the entire creature, in both English and Japanese. This is an example of metonymy. No reliable or unreliable source calls these creatures "nekomimi wearers" and so that title fails the guidelines for page titles. It also seems not to include the type of cat-person whose ears are a natural part of his or her body rather than something "worn." I suggest "List of catgirls and catboys" rather than inventing a new term. 130.179.29.61 (talk) 02:40, 10 October 2013 (UTC)

Misc
This is the stupidest Goddamned page on wikipedia. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.228.130.101 (talk) 06:34, 22 February 2010 (UTC)

Agreed. This article is pointless. --Jswf (talk) 20:57, 16 December 2010 (UTC)
 * Concur. 155.213.224.59 (talk) 18:06, 15 October 2014 (UTC)

Ichigo Momomiya wrongly classified
Ichigo Momomiya is incorrectly listed under Catgirls who always have cat ears and a tail. In both the anime and manga she is fully human most of the time, and is only a catgirl when she transforms. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Frogheck (talk • contribs) 15:08, 18 May 2018 (UTC)


 * The lists are now grouped by original media and not specific attributes of whether they have ears and a tail. AngusWOOF  ( bark  •  sniff ) 17:39, 22 May 2018 (UTC)

Western animation
Perhaps the most famous western catgirl is featured in "Catwoman from Channel 6", a TMNT episode. This is a temporary transformation of April. 46.173.12.68 (talk) 15:54, 1 August 2018 (UTC)

Removed image
I've removed File:Neko Wikipe-tan.svg since Wikipe-tan is not included in the list. Per WP:IUP, images should illustrate the content of the article. — BillHPike (talk, contribs) 13:01, 26 June 2019 (UTC)


 * It's linked to Wikipe-tan's page and illustrates the content of the article. AngusWOOF  ( bark  •  sniff ) 15:06, 26 June 2019 (UTC)
 * Can you identity the specific sentence in List of catgirls that is illustrated by File:Neko Wikipe-tan.svg? — BillHPike (talk, contribs) 15:16, 26 June 2019 (UTC)


 * , that's fine. It's just a list of catgirls in mainstream and popular media. It isn't the Catgirl article, where you can use any random picture including Wikipe-tan's. See Ninjas in popular culture.  AngusWOOF  ( bark  •  sniff ) 16:49, 26 June 2019 (UTC)

Catboys; refactoring as "List of kemonomimi characters"
Lately there's been some back-and-forth edits related to whether catboys should also be included in the article. If the answer is no, one might ask what article they should be included in instead, but as far as I was able to determine, there isn't one. Even Catboy links to an article about a musician and has nothing to with the sort of characters this article addresses. Why have an article for catgirls but not catboys? For that matter, why have an article limited to catgirls (with or without catboys) but not for other animal phenotypes, e.g. foxgirls, rabbit girls, wolf girls, and so forth?

May I propose for your consideration that this article be renamed "List of kemonomimi characters" and refactored to include male as well as female characters, and to include other species phenotypes. Catgirls are the most common and may take up half or more of the article, but at least it would give the other types/genders a place to be listed. One possible issue with this is that the term kemonomimi may imply a narrower focus on anime/manga and other otaku characters where the current list includes some characters that fall outside that realm.

Thoughts? --mwalimu59 (talk) 13:31, 17 April 2021 (UTC)

I don’t know if this makes sense without also restructuring the source Catgirl article. Iimmyykk (talk) 17:30, 6 May 2021 (UTC)

Hermione Granger
Lately there's been a lot of edit-warring over Hermione Granger's entry in this article, so I'm creating this thread to discuss and hopefully reach a consensus on whether or not she should be listed.

In my opinion, she should not be. Her transformation is a one-off incident that happens in one scene and to my recollection there are no repeat occurrences nor does the possibility arise as a plot or character element. Every other entry in the article that I am familiar with is either a catgirl full-time or transforms into one on a recurring basis (though in some cases it's simply a human in a costume, e.g. Catwoman).

That said, if enough others think she belongs, I'm not going to lose any sleep over keeping her in the article. It's just getting tiresome to see it going back and forth, with some edit comments implying that her removal is vandalism when it's arguable enough to be treated as good faith (even if it's not what we ultimately settle on). So let's work this out. mwalimu59 (talk) 18:03, 14 August 2021 (UTC)

RfC: is Hermione Granger a catgirl?

 * The following discussion is an archived record of a request for comment. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this discussion.  A summary of the conclusions reached follows.
 * No. There is strong consensus that Hermione Granger is not a catgirl, because reliable sources do not describe her as such. (non-admin closure) I can't believe this is a serious RfC; it's probably the silliest I've seen.  Tol  (talk &#124; contribs) @ 21:52, 29 October 2021 (UTC)

Is Hermione Granger a catgirl (and therefore, should she be included in this article)?

As this seems to be a somewhat contentious topic, leading to an ANI thread, I'm starting an RfC as an editor who is personally neutral on the matter. Elli (talk &#124; contribs) 19:10, 2 October 2021 (UTC)

Survey

 * Oppose The book does not define her as one, so the source is invalid. Seloloving (talk) 19:52, 2 October 2021 (UTC)
 * No The entry here is based off a singular incident that takes place in Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets. To the best of my recollection it never happens again and is never discussed again. The other characters listed in the article are either catgirls full time or turn into one on a recurring basis (even if it's just costume accessories for some of them). The popularity/notoriety of the Harry Potter series does not merit a lower standard of inclusion for Hermione. mwalimu59 (talk) 20:10, 2 October 2021 (UTC)
 * Yes, if she turned into a cat at all then that seems to satisfy the criteria. Pinging user who may be able to clarify the situation. Randy Kryn (talk) 20:53, 2 October 2021 (UTC)
 * Taking a look at their talk page (specifcally here), it looks like Catgirl is so named because they speak Catalan and not because of any interest in catgirls. Rema goxer  (talk) 21:02, 2 October 2021 (UTC)
 * Yes, but still, who better to know. Just playing. I don't get the opposition though, if Hermione turns partially into a cat in the book (maybe someone can quote the books detail here) then for that period of time she was a catgirl. Was it seconds, minutes? What is the time period a girl has to have cat body parts to qualify, and what parts did Hermione have (a tail, the ears, etc.). Asking for an imaginary friend. Randy Kryn (talk) 22:29, 2 October 2021 (UTC)
 * Sigh. What is the bot summoning me to this time... Is there at least one independent reliable source which says she's a "catgirl"? If so, then absent consensus for a clear, stricter inclusion criteria, then sure, add her. I'd like to reject the idea that if a girl/woman turns into a cat in a work of fiction, if they have cat-like characteristics, or whatever, then it's suitable to call them a "catgirl". That reeks of WP:OR and fancruft to me. Anyone on the list should have a reliable independent source calling them explicitly a "catgirl". &mdash; Rhododendrites  talk \\ 22:42, 2 October 2021 (UTC)
 * No. Arguably Hermione Granger is not a catgirl for a multitude of reasons, not least being she is never mentioned as one in the book, she isn't associated with the catgirl subculture and does not have the characteristics of one. I can't find any sources to back up these claims either. ✨ Ed  talk!  ✨ 23:04, 2 October 2021 (UTC)
 * The page doesn't seem to be about a subculture or its characteristics. It lists girls who one time or another have turned partially into cats. Since the book exists it should count as a source concerning the books content, and the cite even designates the page number. Her catgirlness even occurs in the film. Randy Kryn (talk) 23:15, 2 October 2021 (UTC)


 * If the page is about a subculture, then Hermione Granger doesn't belong on it. If the page isn't about a subculture, then it is an indiscriminate list and it should probably be deleted. The Moose  00:42, 3 October 2021 (UTC)
 * No, Hermione Granger is not a catgirl. She is not "a female character with cat traits, such as cat ears, a cat tail, or other feline characteristics on an otherwise human body".
 * I seriously never imagined I would ever see the phrase "Is Hermione Granger a catgirl?", let alone that apparently being asked as a serious question. I still can't stop giggling. Loki (talk) 06:46, 3 October 2021 (UTC)
 * No The book does not describe her as a "catgirl" and neither does any other reliable source. Sea Ane (talk) 18:26, 3 October 2021 (UTC)
 * No Just no. Per all the other No editors. ~Gwennie &#128008; &#xFF5F;💬 📋&#xFF60; 22:31, 3 October 2021 (UTC)
 * No - This list seems to be defined by characters who are primarily known by this characteristic, as mentioned with the catwoman example. Hermione Granger is definitely not primarily known as a catgirl. Fieari (talk) 07:22, 4 October 2021 (UTC)
 * No Herminoe is not a cat girl. I am completely independent of this topic, but it seems to me that "catgirl" is tied to Japanese anime fetish.  Hermione changes one time on accident.  Why don't we include professor Mcgonagall?
 * No I agree with others that this list should only be for characters primarily known for being cat girls, which Hermione is not. Link20XX (talk) 16:27, 9 October 2021 (UTC)
 * No, by applying Rhododendrites's reasoning to the fact that there are no sources. Very silly question. Catgirl is a word with connotations and subtext, not literally "something that's cat and girl" (this isn't Newspeak). As is the case with thousands of lists in this sort of area, every entry needs to go unless: (a) the piece of fiction itself uses the term "catgirl"; or (b) there's a reliable source that describes the character as a "catgirl". — Bilorv ( talk ) 01:58, 17 October 2021 (UTC)
 * No, by applying Rhododendrites's reasoning to the fact that there are no sources. Very silly question. Catgirl is a word with connotations and subtext, not literally "something that's cat and girl" (this isn't Newspeak). As is the case with thousands of lists in this sort of area, every entry needs to go unless: (a) the piece of fiction itself uses the term "catgirl"; or (b) there's a reliable source that describes the character as a "catgirl". — Bilorv ( talk ) 01:58, 17 October 2021 (UTC)

Discussion

 * I'm the one who started the referenced ANI thread, having previously created a thread here to discuss the question, seeing no responses to it, then witnessing another round of edit-warring over the entry in question. I do have an opinion (stated above) and don't care that much what the outcome is, but the recurring edit wars have become tiresome, especially with arguably good-faith edits sometimes being characterized as vandalism. On Wikipedia we assume good faith and hold discussions to address disagreements. mwalimu59 (talk) 20:10, 2 October 2021 (UTC)
 * I've moved your comment from the RfC statement section to here. Elli (talk &#124; contribs) 20:20, 2 October 2021 (UTC)
 * I don't have an opinion on the RfC question, but I do have an opinion on the user(s) removing Hermione from the list. They are all apparently sockpuppets of one user who has been pestering multiple wikis for some time. If you were to peruse this edit or this edit or some of the others on simplewiki, I think you get some idea of their intentions. -- zzuuzz (talk) 20:58, 2 October 2021 (UTC)


 * How about this for a minimum inclusion criteria: everything on the list must be explicitly called a "catgirl" by at least one reliable independent source, and not just in the context of one scene/issue/episode/whatnot. &mdash; Rhododendrites  talk \\ 23:15, 2 October 2021 (UTC)
 * Problem solved if the opening language, which is now "... a female character with cat traits, such as..." includes further description "... a female character who regularly exhibits cat traits, such as...". Randy Kryn (talk) 09:23, 3 October 2021 (UTC)
 * That's not a solution Rhodo, because I can probably rustle up a dozen anime where the character is clearly a catgirl, isnt referred to as such, and reliable sources are thin on the ground. Randy's solution is much better as it will only eliminate those characters who turn into a catgirl once and it never happens or is talked about again. (Incidentally my criteria for quality anime are threefold: Catgirls, unfeasibly large weapons, and some sort of transforming spaceship/robot/mecha. Which is why Outlaw Star is the best anime of all time.) Only in death does duty end (talk) 08:25, 4 October 2021 (UTC)
 * "When I watch anime, I see X. It's not covered by reliable sources, but because I see it, we should include it anyway" - this is the essence of original research-based fancruft on Wikipedia. Randy's solution is, frankly... not good. And I'm surprised to see two experienced contributors supporting it. First, it's a list of "catgirls". "Catgirl" isn't some objectively observable thing in the world like "is this person a professional singer", but jargon for a type of character in fiction. We need sources to justify that a character has been called a particular type of character. Further, the way Randy has framed it invites anyone to add absolutely any female character in the history of fiction who has been described as catlike, feline, turns into a cat, etc. regardless of sourcing. It's wildly indiscriminate. At very least rename it to be List of female characters Wikipedians have seen who turn into cats, are catlike, or otherwise we think should be called "catgirls". TL;DR - yes, we do need reliable sources for this. &mdash; Rhododendrites  talk \\ 13:00, 4 October 2021 (UTC)
 * Good points, and a combination of the two 'solutions' would work. As the lead is now worded it would include any girl or woman who grows cat ears one time, the loophole that Ms. Granger has entered into. Many of the editors in the RfC are aware of the genre called 'Catgirl' which is well defined on its page, just need to import some of that language in this pages lead to make Hermoine scoot. Randy Kryn (talk) 13:17, 4 October 2021 (UTC)
 * Some wikipedia editors thinking that a character is "clearly a catgirl" but providing no reliable sources for it is exactly the problem which has led to the Hermione Granger inclusion dispute; the fact that Rhododendrites' proposal would prevent it is not a bug, it's a feature. Under the current inclusion criteria, as expressed in the lead, I can see the case for describing Hermione Granger as being a temporary catgirl; however I would personally consider "temporary catgirl" to be a fairly meaningless  category.  If a character doesn't exhibit catgirl traits over a long period, I wouldn't consider them a catgirl (and I don't think I'm super far outside mainstream opinion on that, insofar as there *is* mainstream opinion on the category!) Caeciliusinhorto (talk) 12:07, 6 October 2021 (UTC)


 * If the character would likely have a Category:Catgirls then we should use category-defining criteria WP:CATDEF, such as multiple different sources that regularly refer to them as catgirls. On the flip side, the list entry criteria doesn't require multiple sources. AngusW🐶🐶F  ( bark  •  sniff ) 14:40, 6 October 2021 (UTC) updated 15:52, 6 October 2021 (UTC)


 * Not finding anything in a standard RS search. Google scholar throws up nothing, Google books only throws up a wikipedia mirror, Site:.edu and site:.ac.uk threw up nothing of significance and I got as far as page 4 of google before giving up.©Geni (talk) 20:12, 6 October 2021 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Possible additional section
Is there any possibility for adding a drop down for online exclusive media (webtoons, vtubers, etc)? 184.56.191.206 (talk) 16:07, 23 January 2022 (UTC)
 * Sure, if those webtoons, vtubers, etc. have reliable sources which indicate those media have catgirls. --Historyday01 (talk) 16:24, 23 January 2022 (UTC)

CAN WE PLEASE CHANGE THE IMAGE????
It looks bad and is too sexual. Why does it need to be like that? Just have an image of a single catgirl from some type of media, idk add neco-arc or something lol. — Preceding unsigned comment added by MisterBasse (talk • contribs) 21:02, 25 June 2022 (UTC)
 * I think this one is used because it is a free image. Partofthemachine (talk) 04:48, 4 August 2022 (UTC)
 * And honestly, a good number of the images on Wikimedia for catgirls looks sexual, so I'm not sure if there is a better image on there. The only other one which might be good is Wikipe-tan as a catgirl as a LOT of the images on Wikimedia for catgirls are cosplay. Historyday01 (talk) 13:02, 4 August 2022 (UTC)
 * Wikipe-tan would be a suitable replacement, it’s higher quality and a lot of other anime related pages use Wikipe-tan to represent concepts MRN2electricboogaloo (talk) 15:01, 18 August 2022 (UTC)
 * Cool. I'll replace it later today. Historyday01 (talk) 15:47, 18 August 2022 (UTC)