Talk:List of characters in Fire Emblem: Path of Radiance/Archive 1

Capitalization.
Because it's come up before and it will probably come up again, I'd like to note that the terms "laguz" and "beorc" should not be capitalized unless used in a subject heading. Think of the terms as you would think of writing "human." Beorc and laguz functionally mean the same as human for their respective races/species and should be treated as such. --Hailinel 02:27, 11 January 2006 (UTC)
 * Fine, I'll yield on this one. I was going to dispute it, but I just realized that the game manual doesn't capitalize the terms. --Tjstrf 22:39, 11 January 2006 (UTC)
 * Not in section titles either: "Capitalize the first letter only of the first word and of any proper nouns in a heading, and leave all of the other letters in lowercase." Capitalization

Article Standards
I'm not sure of the standard when it comes to writing descriptions of characters, but it seems like the language is way too charged when describing them--it would seem silly to quibble over it, but if we're to take seriously the discussion of these characters in the context of this page, then there're a few who need revisiting--shinon[honestly, if this were an entry on a character in any piece of literature covered here in Wikipedia, I don't think you'd ever see the words "unrepetent(misspelled, no less) jerk" in a description], devdan, a zillion others; it'd also be nice to mention only the information that is gleaned from support conversation and other story bits, rather than personal interpretation.

Also, the whole mentioning of such and such character over so and so is plain idiotic in the face of random stat growth; if you're going to delve into comparisons, then be sure to mention fixed growth mode and what it entails.


 * There really wasn't a fixed standard when the article was first created. The main intent of creating this article was to clear as much of the character list and unnecessary character description out of the Fire Emblem: Path of Radiance article and work from there. The original form of this list article was, quite literally, the entire character list from the PoR article copied and pasted. After that, this article was expanded, and the character section in the PoR article was cut down. As for the current content of this article, it's very true that the writing is uneven, mainly because different contributors with different styles have all been making their own edits, and not always paying attention to how the new text fits with the old. It's also true that there are misspellings and other mistakes, but that's not uncommon for any Wikipedia article that hasn't been given a thorough line-by-line edit.


 * Anyway, there's no question that a large number of the descriptions should undergo further editing. I don't think that there's anything wrong with sounding a bit charged in the descriptions when it's warranted, but you're right in that personal interpretations should be kept to a minimum, but when some speculation is warranted (ex: there is evidence that Bertram is actually a possessed Lord Renning, but no one has stepped forward with concrete proof that this is actually the case), then such speculation can be allowed with the proper disclaimer, so long as it's reasonable and fits within the context of what the article is trying to accomplish. However, speculation such as crazy romantic relationships that make no sense except in a poorly written fanfic (Jill/Lethe? WTF?) and that has no evidence of existing within the game itself should be kept out of the article.


 * Mainly what I'd say we're shooting for here is an article that paints a fairly detailed portrait of each character and that could also give some small detail on a particular playable character's strategic strengths in terms of the game's mechanics (Which is where all of the Character X is better than Character Y text sprouted from, and that of course, needs editing, as well). The point is, the article is still a very early work in progress, so if you feel you can contribute, then help out.--Hailinel 09:26, 1 February 2006 (UTC)
 * Just noting that the placement of images and such with the characters makes the article seem rather strange and nonstandard, considering how lists on other articles are. Might I recommend the removal of the images (especially those that do not provide rationale) or a much better placement? --Tetsuya-san (talk : contribs) 12:07, 28 March 2006 (UTC)

De-Merge
This article has been de-merged from List of minor characters in the Fire Emblem series on purpose. Do not remerge the article. Thank you. --Tjstrf 21:45, 19 May 2006 (UTC)

Characters
Should Titania and Soren be added to major characters? While they had little to do with the Fire Emblem Medallion, Titania was Ike's deputy, and Soren his strategist, consulted at nearly every step of the journey. Just a suggestion.

Indeed. They appear in many cutscenes and according to the plot. Sounds reasonable to me. David Martin Chao 04:26, 8 May 2007 (UTC)

Where is stated that Kieran is gay?
 * That, my dear friend, would be Vandalism. Delete it, and maybe laugh a little. You get used to it happening occasionally after a while here. --tjstrf 07:51, 3 October 2006 (UTC)

Recent edits
I've noticed that many edits as of late have attempted to inject some very obvious bias and subjectivity into the article, not to mention the fact that the authors aren't making any effort to make it read like an encyclopedia entry. I'd like to take this opportunity to remind everyone that you should not add anything to the article unless what you want to add can: A) Be found in the game. B) Be solidly proven through cited reliable sources. C) Is written in an unbiased, educational manner; particularly one that does not attempt to invoke personal attacks. (i.e.: Don't call people fanboys in the article.)--Hailinel 05:04, 1 August 2006 (UTC)

Naesala
Link to Naesala? Minimoose 22:29, 2 January 2007 (UTC)

Strategy
There is a ridiculous amount of gameplay strategy in this section. As that is not up to Wikipedia's standards, I suggest that anything discussing how to use a character, character stats, and character popularity, be removed from the descriptions. Also, character archetypes count as a original research and should also be removed. While fans call Titania a Jeigan, no official Fire Emblem resource does and this article should only reflect that. Rebochan 17:14, 16 January 2007 (UTC)

Elincia
I don't think this article ahould be merged, I'm currently improving it, furthermore, it is highly likely that more information will enfold in Goddess of Dawn about Elincia, so there will be mor reason to keep it as an independant article. Thanks. Ashnard  talk  09:35, 20 February 2007 (UTC)

The Black Knight
Has anybody thought of producing an article about the Black Knight? I really think that it should be done. Ashnard  talk  13:10, 20 February 2007 (UTC)
 * Why? We don't even need an article for Ike here. Besides, most of the Black Knight's history is implied and therefore speculative. --tjstrf talk 16:11, 20 February 2007 (UTC)
 * There is a new Fire Emblem game coming out in the near future (already in Japan) that will almost definitley remove specualtion. Ashnard   talk  14:29, 24 February 2007 (UTC)

Rename to List of Character in Fire Emblem: Path of Radiance/Goddess of Dawn
I'm wondering if this list of characters should contain both characters from Path of Radiance and Goddess of Dawn, since it's been confirmed that a good portion of Path of Radiance's characters are returning in Goddess of Dawn. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 24.148.19.127 (talk) 22:01, 20 February 2007 (UTC).
 * That wouldn't really work. Although both games do share characters, the casts are very large, and adding in all of the new characters in Goddess of Dawn would make this already very long article unreasonably large. When it comes time for it, I'd be in favor of making a separate article for Goddess of Dawn-specific characters. Returning Path of Radiance characters can have their information updated in the PoR article, and any characters particularly important to the Goddess of Dawn might warrant having their own articles, depending on information.--Hailinel 04:28, 21 February 2007 (UTC)
 * Well, it seems it isn't just a good portion of characters, everyone from Path of Radiance is returning in Goddess of Dawn. Well, everyone that isn't truly dead. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 24.148.19.127 (talk) 20:03, 3 March 2007 (UTC).
 * That being the case, a separate article should still be made for the Goddess of Dawn-specific characters. This article is large enough in just covering the Path of Radiance characters.--Hailinel 20:38, 3 March 2007 (UTC)
 * Maybe there should be three seperate articles. Path of Radiance only characters, Goddess of Dawn only characters, and characters that appear in both games. Although that might not work, even this list as it is seems unwieldy, especially considering the fact that a couple of NPCs in PoR are now PCs in GoD. 24.148.19.127 22:28, 3 March 2007 (UTC)

Pegasus triangle attack
Why isn't it mentioned? 62.183.205.191 20:17, 23 February 2007 (UTC)
 * Gameplay information such as that is considered FAQ-ish and isn't meant for inclusion in the article.--Hailinel 04:04, 24 February 2007 (UTC)
 * But mentioning the Boyd-Rolf-Oscar triangle is okay? 62.183.205.191 11:10, 24 February 2007 (UTC)

Pegasus triangle attack? Who are the three people that can do that?? Marcia, Tanith and...??? Armando.O talk • Ev 21:18, 24 February 2007 (UTC)
 * Oh...and Elincia, I've just read it. Yeah that's true. That should be inclued. Armando.O talk • Ev 21:36, 24 February 2007 (UTC)

(Pokey) What is the pegasus triangle attack? (>o.o)> ~Crowstar~  crow calls 01:20, 26 July 2007 (UTC) Never mind, I looked it up. ~Crowstar~ crow calls 01:23, 26 July 2007 (UTC)

Many mistakes
There's so many mistakes in this, it's unbelievable, stupid grammar errors like "Lethe, an powerful cat" and "Boyd, the youngest of the three brother." There are loads of these, I've cleared some of it up, but this article needs major revision. Ashnard  talk  15:26, 24 February 2007 (UTC)
 * Dude, chill out. If you see an error, either grammatical or as a possible result of vandalism, go ahead and change it. You don't have to list every last change you make here, and you don't need to refer to simple errors as "stupid grammar errors." It's not always easy for someone to go over what they've written with a fine-toothed comb.--Hailinel 19:03, 24 February 2007 (UTC)
 * Okay, *Breathe, Ashnard breathe* Sorry, I have a habit of portraying myself as more annoyed than I actually am. I'm still a newbie, but I need to learn how to relax. Not meaning to be aggresive, but the mistakes in here are far worse than the ones in the "mess" you called the Ashnard page. Sorry, I'll try to relax. Ashnard   talk  19:09, 24 February 2007 (UTC)
 * Hahahaha!!!!! Well, I've started a process to be able to use the AutoWikiBrowser..So i can fix that grammatical errors...now, i must wait for the aproval of my registration -.- Armando.O talk •  Ev 21:15, 24 February 2007 (UTC)

LOL, one more. Titania is the first Paladin able to use axes, or something of that context. Disapproved by the existence of Marcus. Fixed. David Martin Chao 04:43, 8 May 2007 (UTC)

Elincia image...


it must be



If you have the game, go and check the instruction booklet. Armando.O talk • Ev 17:51, 24 February 2007 (UTC)
 * Well, what about Bertram on this page? Either we lose the statement or we lose the Bertram comparison to Lord Renning, because they can't co-exist without contradicting. Ashnard   talk  17:56, 24 February 2007 (UTC)


 * It must be deleted, it's just a rumor. Wikipedia is not a crystal ball Armando.O talk •  Ev 18:02, 24 February 2007 (UTC)
 * I didn't put it in there, so just delete the Bertram rumour and keep the Elincia statement if you want. Ashnard   talk  18:04, 24 February 2007 (UTC)

Featured list
Well, it's probably that the article will fail. I don't care cuz I've realised that I didn't have to nominate it. I was excited xD cuz it looked great will all the new changes. Now, the only thing we have to do is focus in this article to see if it can get the FL status someday. Armando.O talk • Ev 15:13, 25 February 2007 (UTC)
 * I'm looking over it now, I hope it gets FL status, I'll try to edit out mistakes and improve the tone. Ashnard   talk  15:35, 25 February 2007 (UTC)

Oh my God!
I just went the old official PoR website, on the class section they listed Greil as a Ranger, The Black Knight as a Paladin, Lucia as myrmidon and Caineghis as a Tiger and they listed Ashnard as a Lord! I'm removing this from the references. Ashnard  talk  17:49, 25 February 2007 (UTC)


 * What link are you talking about? Armando.O talk •  Ev 17:56, 25 February 2007 (UTC)
 * The official English PoR website, it was under references, but I've deleted it now. Ashnard   talk  17:59, 25 February 2007 (UTC)


 * Ok. Armando.O talk •  Ev 18:11, 25 February 2007 (UTC)
 * I can't believe an official resource was so flawed (or outdated), this may have been a website released before the game, so it could've recorded things that later changed in the game, that's one reason. Ashnard   talk  18:15, 25 February 2007 (UTC)
 * Yeah, it sucks. Armando.O talk •  Ev 18:50, 25 February 2007 (UTC)

Rajaion is apparently a red dragon because black dragon's are only through laguz royalty. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.125.205.106 (talk)
 * Who says that? That thing of royalty isn't mentioned in the game. Just cuz the king of Goldoa, Deghinsea, is a black dragon, we can't asumme that the black dragons are only royalty. Armando.O talk •  Ev 23:00, 26 February 2007 (UTC)
 * It isn't a certain method, but you can usually tell by their appearence i.e. hair colour and complection, but we can't put predictions in, Gareth is probably a Red Dragon, but I won't put it in because it is only probable. I've never heard about the Black Dragon royalty thing though. Ashnard   talk  18:24, 27 February 2007 (UTC)
 * Yeah the site is wrong in so many ways, such as literally translated skills and implying that Valkyries can use Light Magic. Anyway, Rajaion is a Red Dragon in FE9 (according to data), but he is a Black Dragon is FE10. Aveyn Knight 15:24, 19 March 2007 (UTC)
 * I find it laughable that it is actually an official site, not even fan sites would make them type of mistakes. Ashnard   talk  20:25, 19 March 2007 (UTC)

Japanese names?
Are those really needed? I'm assuming only a small minority of fans can actually read Japanese. Also removing them would help to reduce the size of the (overly-wide) list. I couldn't find any discussion regarding them, so... Aveyn Knight 15:11, 20 March 2007 (UTC)

death
rajaion supposedly died at the end because in the next game it is listed that he is dead. Raaion probably died right after the end of PoR because the galdr did not physically but mentally restored him.
 * Wow, are loads of spilers being spread throught the internet now? I'll have to trust you on this one, although I'm steering clear of GoD spoilers. Ashnard   talk  07:20, 21 March 2007 (UTC)
 * I just realised that I deleted that, d'oh! Can you provide a source for where you found this information? Don't worry, it won't be taken off by me if you don't provide one, I would just like confirmation. Ashnard   talk  07:22, 21 March 2007 (UTC)
 * I haven't been able to turn up a reference. There's no point in listing him as dead *here* without a line or something.  The Sorrelation chart in Goddess of Dawn does list Rajaion as dead, but there's no other information on the chart indicating when he died. Can someone turn up a translation of the Japanese text from Path of Radiance to confirm this? Rebochan 19:56, 11 April 2007 (UTC)

Do you mean Japanese translation of GoD? I'm sorry, I can't help you here, I'm steering clear of GoD information until I buy it. Ashnard  talk  19:59, 11 April 2007 (UTC)
 * No, a Japanese translation of Path of Radiance. I assumed that the reference in Rajaion's entry was referring to Path of Radiance, so providing a translation of material that indicates Rajaion's death or corroborates his living is all we need.  No need for GoD spoilers :) Rebochan 20:48, 11 April 2007 (UTC)
 * Doing some quick research including getting the script for FE9, the text is a little unclear, but he gets no further lines and the characters talk about him in the past tense. It's a little more clear if Nasir is in the party.  Without any GoD spoilers, his death scene from the end of PoR is discussed by characters in GoD.  However, I haven't found anything to indicate the dialogue is different in the Japanese version save for greater use of ellipses, so I'll try to fix the article reference and include an inline citation of the relevant dialgoue from PoR. Rebochan 21:04, 11 April 2007 (UTC)

Sorry for the confusion -- I hadn't actually realised that the scene at the end was his death, I just thought they were reunited (so naive); I thought it was part of the beginning of GoD. Well done for the citation though. Ashnard  talk  21:33, 11 April 2007 (UTC)

Naesala and Nealuchi are not related!
Take a look at this FE10 relationship chart. FE10 SPOILERS. In the bottom right corner, Nealuchi's relationship to Naesala is translated as being 'loyal' to him. In addition, their relationship line is green, as opposed to the red lines of Ike, Mist, Greil, and Elena; Lucia and Geoffrey; Leanne and Reyson; etc. Thus, Naesala is clearly not related to Nealuchi. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 68.48.74.192 (talk) 01:15, 27 March 2007 (UTC).

Images
There's a lot of full-portrait images here, scaled down in size, so it almost makes the list seem cluttured. I think what would help distinguish this article from the site where the images came from if the images are cropped with Photoshop to show each character's general head and torso area; the pictures can then be scaled up so that the characters appear much "closer" to the screen. Does anyone else think this should be done? Erik Jensen (Appreciate 00:32, 29 March 2007 (UTC)
 * One could also crop some of these images so that there isn't as much white space in the images that make the characters look small. I could do it just this way if people prefer, I'm planning on doing some image work on the page soon if there aren't any comments or objections. Erik Jensen (Appreciate 06:03, 2 April 2007 (UTC) Ashnard  talk  22:03, 2 April 2007 (UTC)

I hope it goes well! Ashnard  talk  09:08, 2 April 2007 (UTC)
 * Yeah, basically it'd look like the Marcia image, but with more of the body below shown. Erik Jensen (Appreciate 17:20, 2 April 2007 (UTC)
 * Okay, so I reuploaded one, check the Caineghis image to see what it is I'm talking about. Erik Jensen (Appreciate 18:15, 2 April 2007 (UTC)

I've just checked it now; I really like it, nice job! I agree with the points you made earlier, now seeing the contrast between the Caineghis image and the others has proved how well it works. Ashnard  talk  22:03, 2 April 2007 (UTC)

Help??
Does anyone know how or if I can direct an internal link towards a specific character from this article? Normally I would do (with use of redundant tags so it doesn't go into a link): Ashnard]. But this just directs straight to the page, I think it is because the characters are only sub or sub-sub headings, but I don't think I should change this. Any advice? Ashnard  talk  21:44, 11 April 2007 (UTC) Ashnard
 * It appears that your link has "characters" capitalized as "Characters", whereas the name of the article itself uses lower-case "characters"; the software is case sensitive. Direction to subsections does work, as far as I know. Erik Jensen (Appreciate 16:30, 12 April 2007 (UTC)

--Ashnard-- Nope, I've tried using characters when not capitalised, sorry. If you click on the link it directs just to the page, not the specific section. Ashnard  talk  18:29, 12 April 2007 (UTC)
 * Oh wait, I figured it out: That link is pointing to a section of the page that doesn't exist. The section talking about yourself, Ashnard (^_^), is not named "Ashnard", but rather "Ashnard (アシュナード)", which the software considers a lot different. Either make the link Ashnard], or change the title of the section to read simply "Ashnard" and provide the katakana as part of the text content below the header. Erik Jensen (Appreciate 20:45, 12 April 2007 (UTC)

Thanks! Also, I'm looking for the Ashnard page to get a review or possibe rating upgrade of some sort. I've provided refernces and I'm going to fix links; do you know how I'd go about getting a review? Thanks Erik!! Ashnard  talk  21:05, 12 April 2007 (UTC)
 * Aw shucks. I don't know anything about article review process, however, as I haven't dealt with that before. I can, however, direct you to the Fire Emblem page on SmashWiki as a little treat. Enjoy, I made most of it myself. Erik Jensen (Appreciate 21:16, 12 April 2007 (UTC)

Thanks, nice job, cool page! Ashnard  talk  21:33, 12 April 2007 (UTC)

Name Changes
Because of the problems raised above, I've decided to place the Japanese names elsewhere on the page, just let people know. Ashnard  talk  21:34, 12 April 2007 (UTC)

Move to gaming wiki tag
On the Ashnard article I moved it to the gaming wiki Encyclopedia gamia. You can see it here and I merged the article. --Cs california 22:10, 24 April 2007 (UTC)

Janaff's a bird! (Excuse the pun)
Why has someone edited Janaff as if he is a female? Is this just vandalism or is someone extremely misguided? I've always known him as a male. Can someone confirm/clear this up please. Ashnard  Talk  10:42, 29 April 2007 (UTC)

I've changed it now although I suspect random IP will only change it. Ashnard  Talk  10:55, 29 April 2007 (UTC)

Information as units.
Should we really be mentioning the characters' abilities as units. Doesn't this steer too close to being game-guide material? Ashnard  Talk  20:20, 2 June 2007 (UTC)

Silence is golden eh. Well, no response= Ashnard dictatorship. I'll delete it all now. Ashnard  Talk  17:33, 8 June 2007 (UTC)

Giffca merge.
I've merged the Giffca page to this. I'm sure nobody will lament the loss of that page – it shouldn't have been created in the first place. Ashnard  Talk  16:15, 3 June 2007 (UTC)

Greil's sword
Thanks to information from Goddess of Dawn I remove the statement that says Ragnell was Greil's sword, since the sword most likely did not belong to him. The only "evidence" in this game is when the Black Knight tells him to use his "proper" weapon, which can now be assumed to refer to his swordfighting ability. Aveyn Knight 22:24, 11 June 2007 (UTC)

Naesala Merge
So...anyone have any objections. Ashnard Talk  Contribs  15:40, 21 June 2007 (UTC)

'''No respone again! Am I on my own here!''' Well, I'll probably merge it tonight unless anyone can come up with any reasonable objections. Ashnard Talk  Contribs  06:11, 22 June 2007 (UTC)

I've merged it now. It's quite long the section now so I guess I'll clean it up later. Ashnard Talk  Contribs  21:38, 22 June 2007 (UTC)

Ranulf's Image?
Is there a mistake? His right eye is neon green. @_@ ~Crowstar~  crow calls 20:00, 25 July 2007 (UTC)


 * Doubt it &mdash; he's a laguz after all. They're supposed to be funny-looking. Ashnard  Talk  Contribs  20:03, 25 July 2007 (UTC)


 * The TV I'm using is too small to see clearly, but his left eye doesn't appear to be bright green in-game. It does look like it might be a different color from his other one though. I've seen this in dogs (one brown, one blue), but not in cats. Who knows, it's a fictional world anyways. All the web images (using official and not fan art) I can find seem to give him the neon green eye. Infernal Inferno 23:43, 25 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Well, you can see it from his in-game sprite. I didn't notice it, myself, until I got to his image. Aveyn Knight 15:00, 26 July 2007 (UTC)

Haha, if it were, then it's a great touch ^_^ But anyways, I don't think I'll be seeing him for a while. I'm on chapter 15, which is in Bengion. So I seriously doubt he'll show up soon. ~Crowstar~ crow calls 00:22, 26 July 2007 (UTC)


 * Great game. I've just went on a run through whilst trining Rolf!!!!. Anyway, I digress &mdash; we mustn't discuss such matters on Wikipedia. Ashnard  Talk  Contribs  08:31, 26 July 2007 (UTC)

Ike get his own page?
Well, now that Ike has been confirmed for Brawl, shouldn't he get his own page? Every other character that has shown in previous Smash Bros games has gotten their own page, so why not Ike? Chadtank 1 August 2007 (UTC) Why not? He's notable, and he's set to appear in GoD, right? Crowstar Vaseline-on-the-lens-Jitsu!fwends! 17:01, 1 August 2007 (UTC)
 * The Ice Climbers and Dr. Mario don't have their own pages, and Pichu is part of a list, apparently. If there isn't much to tell about the character, then I'd say that they don't have the need to be in their own article (no offense). If people think that Ike has enough info about him that can only be told in a separate article, then... D i saster K i rby 17:06, 1 August 2007 (UTC)


 * I raised this at User talk: TTN. He was the user who decided that the other characters weren't notable enough (and I concurred). There's an obvious change in circumstance so it should be recreated to be consistent with Roy and Marth's entries. Ashnard  Talk  Contribs  17:08, 1 August 2007 (UTC)


 * The need for an article relates to the amount of (possible) out of universe information. Marth and Roy are worth keeping around because they may have something due to the whole marketing FE thing. Ike doesn't really have any potential in my eyes. TTN 20:52, 1 August 2007 (UTC)


 * Well, Ike is a main character in two games: Path of Radiance and Akatsuki no Megami. Roy, however, is only really a main character in one game, making only an appearance in a second. I think the point of making Ike a character in SSBB was for the marketing strategy as Roy. I don't really see how Roy is so much more deserving of his own page than Ike. Lore aura 20:56, 17 August 2007 (UTC)


 * Lore does have a point, which I agree with. Crowstar  Vaseline-on-the-lens-Jitsu!fwends! 00:59, 18 August 2007 (UTC)

SSBB Tag
I personally believe that having a SSBB tag under Ike is somewhat odd. It would be better to have the tag if Ike has his own page, however that is clearly not the case. Thus I believe it would be best to take off the tag for this page. What do you guys think? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Parafusion2 (talk • contribs) August 2007


 * I don't see any problems with it. The fact that no other FE character on the list makes it look out of place. If it is placed on other non-article sections related to SSBM, then I see no reason why it shouldn't be placed here. Ashnard  Talk  Contribs  09:11, 2 August 2007 (UTC)

I think that it should be placed on the entire page. It ruins the flow of the page. Crowstar Vaseline-on-the-lens-Jitsu!fwends! 15:44, 2 August 2007 (UTC)


 * Do you want it putting at the bottom? Ashnard  Talk  Contribs  16:11, 2 August 2007 (UTC)

Sure. We need more consensus, tho. Crowstar Vaseline-on-the-lens-Jitsu!fwends! 16:14, 2 August 2007 (UTC)


 * If we put the template at the bottom people might get confused and not know which of the many characters in this article are in the game. It should go on the character's section for convenience. And only one of the characters on this page is in the series, so putting on the bottom of the page seems pointless as we need to keep this page organized with each character's section.
 * Also this discussion should govern if we put the templates on Pichu and Falco Lombardi.→ 0 4 1 7 4 4  18:15, 2 August 2007 (UTC)


 * The only reasons against putting the box under Ike are aesthetic. I couldn't care less about how it looks, so I'd prefer having it in Ike's own section. Of course, there is also the matter of whether Ike should get his own article. Ashnard  <sub style="color:red;">Talk  <sup style="color:black;">Contribs  21:09, 2 August 2007 (UTC)


 * Yes Ike having his own article is a topic on this page but can we keep this discussion focused on weather or not the template should be in Ike's section or not?→ 0 4 1 7 4 4  13:49, 3 August 2007 (UTC)


 * Well, I've given my thoughts on the main discussion. The part about having his own article doesn't negate my thoughts about the section. It's whether by the way, not weather. Thanks. Ashnard  <sub style="color:red;">Talk  <sup style="color:black;">Contribs  13:55, 3 August 2007 (UTC)

It doesn't matter now, This talk is now irrelevant as the template is now not shown on each character's page as this is a crossover game. See The template page discussion page.→ 0 4 1 7 4 4  21:50, 3 August 2007 (UTC)

Lead
The lead should be expanded; it can include the role of Beorc, the role of support conversations in retrieveing information about characters, and how reviewers have commented on the use of characters in PoR. Ashnard <sub style="color:red;">Talk  <sup style="color:black;">Contribs  12:51, 23 August 2007 (UTC)
 * If I could find any reviews, yes, I'd help. Crowstar  Vaseline-on-the-lens-Jitsu!fwends! 12:55, 23 August 2007 (UTC)

Thanks. You can also use the reviews from the main article, which is fully referenced. Ashnard <sub style="color:red;">Talk  <sup style="color:black;">Contribs  12:59, 23 August 2007 (UTC)


 * It's been expanded but will require clean-up. Right now, I'll cut down the class and class cahnge sections into one line, as well as removing the race section and placing it in the class section. Ashnard  <sub style="color:red;">Talk  <sup style="color:black;">Contribs  14:26, 23 August 2007 (UTC)

Organization, nomenclature, et cetera
First issue, what defines a "Major Playable Character"? Other Fire Emblem character lists seem to limit it to Lord characters. In this game, only Ike and Elincia's deaths lead to game over, a condition associated with 'Lord' status (though their actual class names might say otherwise.) Other inclusionary criteria seem completely arbitrary. Volke is mostly unseen and irrelevant, except for one important plot relevation. Ena and Nasir are barely playable, and not most frequently seen, but they made the cut. Titania and Soren, who are constantly providing Ike with advice, didn't. I say "Major Playable Characters" should only cover the Lords, as that is a criterion that has a reflection somewhere (in this case, in-game.)

Next is the issue of ordering. It seems that characters have been ordered by join order, which really doesn't make sense as a scheme fitting an encyclopedia. Seeing as this isn't a game guide, I say organize them alphabetically within their subheadings. Of course, the subheadings may be suspect. What is the value to grouping some characters as "The Greil Mercenaries" when what a Greil Mercenary is has not been explained. The article construction largely seems to be for the benefit of people who are already intimately familiar with the game, while it should be helping people who aren't familiar with it. Minor playable characters should really be just one undivided category, as race and group affiliation are or should be noted in individual character bios. Infernal Inferno 20:25, 23 August 2007 (UTC)


 * List of characters in Metal Gear Solid uses a similar system; yet, there roles are easier to define. I support limiting the major playable characters to the Lords, and maybe Mist. I'd keep Greil mercenaries but have an intro explaining them. The remaining playable beorc can be in alphabetical or chronological order of appearance. Ashnard  <sub style="color:red;">Talk  <sup style="color:black;">Contribs  07:55, 24 August 2007 (UTC)


 * I'd prefer to leave Mist to the Minor characters. Whatever inclusion criteria are decided upon, the choice will be arbitrary to a large degree. It makes sense to me to at least make that criteria clearly defined. The most sensible way I can think of is to limit it to 'Lords' – those whose deaths results in loss of the game. It is very clear, and as valid a choice as any other criteria. Infernal Inferno 08:40, 24 August 2007 (UTC)

Of course, that raises the question of whether Elincia is a Lord; there is not a defined criteria for what one is unless it's stated in their class. Ashnard <sub style="color:red;">Talk  <sup style="color:black;">Contribs  11:30, 24 August 2007 (UTC)

Furthermore, the title would then have to be renamed, because such characters as Mist are considered major. It is an abitrary classification, but it would be sending out the wrong signal to have a major character list without some important characters in. That's where the problem is, because if we rename it Lords, then only Ike can really be in. It wouldn't be factually accurate to include Elincia. I know that you raise the death criteria, but this is not a definitive or accurate method to determine whether a unit is a Lord. Ashnard <sub style="color:red;">Talk  <sup style="color:black;">Contribs  11:37, 24 August 2007 (UTC)


 * I did not suggest naming the category Lords, I'm only using the word for purposes of discussion as shorthand meaning "those whose deaths results in loss of the game." I'm sorry if I didn't make that entirely clear. Anyways, you claim Mist is major, but we still haven't defined any sort of criteria, objective or otherwise, as to which characters are Major. Mist seems more like a plot element than a character to me. As far as I recall, she doesn't really influence anything, only things that happen to her are important. If she was replaced by a special glass jar that protected the medallion and contained a recording of the galdr the story would be pretty much the same. Volke's role in the story is just as a messenger. Who is and is not major is not a clearly defined issue. Everyone will have different opinions, which is why I'm suggesting we try to define "Major" in the first place. Preferably the criteria would be objective, clearly separating those who are and aren't included. The Lord criteria does that. If name is a concern, we could rename it "Main characters." Infernal Inferno 19:53, 24 August 2007 (UTC)

I wasn't suggesting that we should do this on a subjective basis. To be honest, the only obvious criteria is the death thing, but that would leave only two characters. Would there be a point in having two characters and then the rest? Ashnard <sub style="color:red;">Talk  <sup style="color:black;">Contribs  20:04, 24 August 2007 (UTC)


 * It seems to work for most of the other Fire Emblem articles. Case in point, List of characters in Fire Emblem: The Sacred Stones. Of course, that game was much more focused on the two main characters facing off with Lyon. Path of Radiance really did a good job of having several different plot threads that worked together towards a whole, each with important characters, which is why this is hard. Infernal Inferno 20:23, 24 August 2007 (UTC)


 * I suppose that could work. For the list of minor characters, the word "minor" could be subsituted with "other". I advocate keeping the Greil Mercaneries section, but having an introduction. Do you think that characters should be ranked alphabetically or chronologically in time of when they're recruited? Ashnard  <sub style="color:red;">Talk  <sup style="color:black;">Contribs  21:09, 24 August 2007 (UTC)


 * "Other" is quite acceptable. I think alphabetical organization is a better idea, as chronological organization doesn't really make sense unless the info that it is chronological by joining time is included, which would seem to verge upon game-guide material. Alphabetical seems to make more sense, especially for anyone scanning for a specific character by name but not knowing when they join, such as someone who read Elincia's bio and want to know who Geoffrey is. Infernal Inferno 22:47, 24 August 2007 (UTC)


 * Alphabetical it is then. By the way, Axem Titanium has left some good suggestions on my talk page, if you want to have a look. Ashnard  <sub style="color:red;">Talk  <sup style="color:black;">Contribs  07:57, 25 August 2007 (UTC)


 * What do you think? Ordering it by country would require a major revamp of the article, but would make it more presentable and cohesive. Also, any suggestions about which images to keep and which to lose? Ashnard  <sub style="color:red;">Talk  <sup style="color:black;">Contribs  08:23, 25 August 2007 (UTC)


 * Furthermore, in the NPCs section, the Four Riders could be grouped. I like the idea. Ashnard  <sub style="color:red;">Talk  <sup style="color:black;">Contribs  08:26, 25 August 2007 (UTC)


 * Right, I've trialed this method out for "Greil's Mercenaries". If it all goes hideously wrong, it can always be reverted. Ashnard <sub style="color:red;">Talk  <sup style="color:black;">Contribs  09:02, 26 August 2007 (UTC)

References.
If you can find an out-of-universe source for anything, then use that as opposed to an in-game quote. We need to get the article sourced. This will revolve around in-game quotes mainly. For these, there dosen't need to be a citation template, just write the quote and the speaker in a reference tag; using List of characters in Metal Gear Solid as an example. Thank you. Ashnard <sub style="color:red;">Talk  <sup style="color:black;">Contribs  13:50, 24 August 2007 (UTC)
 * You can use Template:Cite video game also. Kariteh 14:41, 24 August 2007 (UTC)

Jill
There are two actions that Jill can take, does anyone know which is canon? I'm currently moving all of this "if the player does this" stuff and replacing it with the canonical storyline. Thank you. Ashnard <sub style="color:red;">Talk  <sup style="color:black;">Contribs  14:03, 24 August 2007 (UTC)


 * Since Jill is playable in Akatsuki no Megami, it is safe to assume that she didn't become an enemy. However, if it's possible, it might be worth mentioning her "betrayal" as some kind of option (perhaps, by cutting most of the detail). If not, it's not such a big loss. Aveyn Knight 14:26, 24 August 2007 (UTC)


 * Thanks. Ashnard  <sub style="color:red;">Talk  <sup style="color:black;">Contribs  14:37, 24 August 2007 (UTC)

Two minor things
Just an idea- how about renaming the "Four Riders" section to "Daein" or "Daein army"? Then, Shiharam can be added there. Perhaps, Greil, Ashnard and the Black Knight can be added there, although their entries seem pretty large already. Secondly, I don't know if the editor has discussed it already, but regarding Zihark in the Daein section, it is stated in Radiant Dawn that his homeland is Daein. That said, what is the criteria for a character being listed under a certain country? For example, doesn't Ilyana originate from Crimea (I'm not completely sure though)? Aveyn Knight 14:36, 8 September 2007 (UTC)

Greil, Ashnard and the Black Knight are major characters, so I'd leave them as they are. I like the sound of renaming it Daein and including Shiharam though. As for characters, as well as personal knowledge of the game, I've assumed that their place of recruital is their hometown&mdash;this isn't always the case though. If an editor is certain that a character is not placed in their country of origin, just move the relevant information to that section. Don't be afraid of cutting things down too&mdash;I still think that there's a little bit of minuiae in the list. Thank you. Ashnard <sub style="color:red;">Talk  <sup style="color:black;">Contribs  15:52, 8 September 2007 (UTC)

Japanese names 2
Basically, what should we do with these? Should we add them all back in (again), or remove them altogether? Aveyn Knight 16:28, 9 September 2007 (UTC)


 * I'm not really aware of the guidelines relating to this. Unless it is felt that they are absolutely necessary, I'd just leave it. Ashnard  <sub style="color:red;">Talk  <sup style="color:black;">Contribs  16:38, 9 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Characters of Final Fantasy VIII (the "model" for this kind of articles) doesn't mention Japanese names for minor characters. Kariteh 20:48, 9 September 2007 (UTC)
 * I see the point now, although it does look kind of inconsistent. If there's no problem, however, I guess this isn't a problem. Aveyn Knight 13:59, 10 September 2007 (UTC)

Elincia2
If Elincia is one of the main characters her image should not be removed. Javier12345

Some have got to go. Sorry. To conform with fair-use guidelines, I can't have too many. I just wanted to balance it out, you know; there was no need to have Ike and then Elincia immediately after. Thank you. Ashnard <sub style="color:red;">Talk  <sup style="color:black;">Contribs  06:16, 24 September 2007 (UTC)
 * In that case remove Ike —Preceding unsigned comment added by 201.163.39.74 (talk) 21:23, 24 September 2007 (UTC)


 * Does it really matter? As for Ike, he's the only ine with any out-of-universe notability. I really don't see why this is of concern. Ashnard  <sub style="color:red;">Talk  <sup style="color:black;">Contribs  16:38, 25 September 2007 (UTC)

Sorry but i will keep adding Elincias image. Remove ikes. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 201.163.39.74 (talk) 03:00, 28 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Then you can be blocked for vandalism. >_> And if you really want it in, don't be immature, as you :are being. Crowstar  Crow callsTalon Marks 10:05, 28 September 2007 (UTC)

Are you heading the Elincia fan club or something? Unless you can form a convincing argument warranting her inclusion, then your edits will be reverted. If you persist, an administartor will be notified. Thank you. Ashnard <sub style="color:red;">Talk  <sup style="color:black;">Contribs  15:16, 28 September 2007 (UTC)

THATS NOT FAIR, WHY ELINCIA. ITS OK I WONT ADD HER ANYMORE. BUT ITS NOT OK TO REMOVE ONE OF THE MAIN CHARACTERS. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 201.163.39.74 (talk) 15:10, 29 September 2007 (UTC)

Images aren't supposed to be representative of the characters' notability. I don't see how her inclusion or exclusion has an effect on anyhting. Some had to be removed&mdash;Elincia's was just below Ike's, so I removed it to have a better balance of images in the list. Ashnard <sub style="color:red;">Talk  <sup style="color:black;">Contribs  15:18, 29 September 2007 (UTC)

Actually its true, sorry for causing trouble. I dont even know elincia. Sorry. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 201.163.39.74 (talk) 17:31, 29 September 2007 (UTC)


 * No worries. Consider registering and permanently contributing to the project. Thanks. Ashnard  <sub style="color:red;">Talk  <sup style="color:black;">Contribs  17:39, 29 September 2007 (UTC)

Actually i am javier12345 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 201.163.39.74 (talk) 00:50, 30 September 2007 (UTC)

Why haven't you been posting under that account then? Ashnard <sub style="color:red;">Talk  <sup style="color:black;">Contribs  07:44, 30 September 2007 (UTC)

I always forget to do so. But no more (I think). Javier12345 —Preceding signed but undated comment was added at 16:16, 30 September 2007 (UTC)

FL
If nobody minds, I'll be putting this up for Featured List nomination tomorrow. Thanks. Ashnard <sub style="color:red;">Talk  <sup style="color:black;">Contribs  08:29, 29 September 2007 (UTC)
 * I'd say to wait just a tiny bit longer, to see if 1) any more copyeditng needs to be done, and 2) any more citations for a few still uncited facts can be found. ThunderkatzHo! 15:39, 29 September 2007 (UTC)


 * Okay. I was hoping for a better peer review response. I don't mind waiting for longer, though. Ashnard  <sub style="color:red;">Talk  <sup style="color:black;">Contribs  15:41, 29 September 2007 (UTC)


 * Just a minor thing that I thought wasn't worth starting a section on. I noticed that references were added for the names Gawain and Gurgurant. Although they are probably correct, Nintendo/IS has never confirmed the inspiration of the namesakes, so wouldn't the references be original research? Aveyn Knight 19:04, 1 October 2007 (UTC)

Apologies for intruding with my long review. User:Krator (t c) 23:54, 1 October 2007 (UTC)


 * No way; your review really helped. Ashnard  <sub style="color:red;">Talk  <sup style="color:black;">Contribs  17:18, 2 October 2007 (UTC)