Talk:List of circulating currencies/Archive 1

its a start
Uhm, I know its kinda messed up, but at least its a start.....

My hope is that a list of countries be made (maybe grouped by continents so thts its easier), and next to it is a direct link to its the legal tender.

Uhm......... help?! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 203.76.250.53 (talk • contribs) 22:42, 22 December 2004 (UTC)


 * Well, this is my attempt at listing active currencies. I prefer to list them by currency codes and the country they're used in. Suggestions and help appreciated. Nightstallion 12:37, 28 Dec 2004 (UTC)

OK, listing it by currency codes is probably the best option, nice job....

You missed the Somaliland shilling. It meets the same criteria as the Trannistrian ruble: Fully self governing without international recognition. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 202.81.187.241 (talk • contribs) 08:14, 31 December 2004 (UTC)

Reformatting
I think that this page could use some changes, the following is what I think needs to be changed. Firstly, I think that the currencies should be arranged in a grid, like on the list of state leaders page. There would be a column for the county or territory, the currency, and then the ISO code. Also they should be arranged alphabetically by the country or territory that they are used in. The dependencies that use the same currency as the country that they are owned by, would be omitted and it should be noted at the top (all independent countries should be listed). I also think the little flags should be omitted, but if anyone objects I won’t really care. Lastly, I think some of the things under “Notes” should be deleted like the thing about Russia and Belarus using the same currency in the future, and other things that look like rumors. Please tell me what you thing about my ideas. If no one says any thing after a wile I make all the changes. Zntrip 13:44, 25 July 2005 (UTC)


 * I'd say, be bold. Personally, I really like the little flags, but maybe that's just me. Regarding the "rumours": Let me just add that all of these currency unions and other changes have in fact been mentioned numerous times in newspaper articles, so I thought them noteworthy. Nightstallion 14:12, 25 July 2005 (UTC)

I finished the "reformating," if someone could fix it up a little by addind flags or italics, or anything please do so. Zntrip 23:05, 3 August 2005 (UTC)


 * Yeah, keep flags, the only thing that adds color. Other than that, if it makes it better, I'm all in.    Jo  e  I  07:59, 9 July 2006 (UTC)

Tristan Pound
Is there a currency called the Tristan pound that is used in Tristan da Cunha? There is very little information on Google. Dose anyone know anything? Zntrip 05:34, 16 August 2005 (UTC)

No there isn't they use the Saint Helena and English Pound. Enlil Ninlil 00:52, 19 April 2006 (UTC)

Subdivisions
Why are we featuring subdivisions for currencies that are such large denominations that they are no longer subdivided? For example, the following currencies do not feature subdivisions: Japanese yen, Chilean peso, New Taiwan dollar, Vietnamese dong. There are more and we should track them down and note them on this list. --Jiang 02:58, 18 September 2005 (UTC)


 * I put all of the subdivisions on because technically they are still legal tender even if you can’t use them. I don’t think it matters if it is noted that mills for example aren’t used in everyday transactions like a dollar bill, but that’s what the links are for.  If you click on “Mill” you would find out that they would be legal tender if they made coin for them.  So I don’t know.  I don’t see the need to explain that some subdivisions aren’t used because of inflation, but I guess adding it at the top won’t hurt. – Zntrip 05:15, 18 September 2005 (UTC)


 * From what I understand, the sen has been demonetized in Japan. And if you want to put obsolete subdivisions, the sen was furtehr subdivided into 10 rin.  According to the Vanuatu Vatu page, the Vatu has never been subdivided Nik42 07:19, 9 July 2006 (UTC)

I think we should use footnotes. --Jiang 03:51, 20 September 2005 (UTC)


 * If you want to, go ahead. I don't know all of the countries that don't use fractional units. – Zntrip 01:55, 21 September 2005 (UTC)

rename?
I'd like to create a list of all currencies (not just circulating currencies). I'd like to call it "List of currencies" which I obviously can't right now. Would anyone object if I renamed this to "List of circulating currencies"? Mom2jandk 20:33, 11 December 2005 (UTC)
 * I would (sorry). You can find a list of "all" currencies on the currency page. If it is not complete (and it probably isn't complete) you can add the currencies there. This page is for currencies that are being used now, and the other page is for all currencies. – Zntrip 21:20, 11 December 2005 (UTC)
 * Actually, on the currency page, it's two lists, one for current, and one for historical. I don't think that lists should be embedded in pages, but that's a separate issue that I really should bring up on the currency talk page. Do you object to me creating a new list, or specifically to me renaming this list? That is, if I named a new list "List of all currencies", would that bother you? Even if I didn't create a new list, I think the name of this list is misleading, since to me, "List of currencies" implies "List of all currencies". Mom2jandk 21:31, 11 December 2005 (UTC)
 * Good point. Have you seen List of historic currencies? That should be the list for historic currencies.  Tell you what, I think you should rename this page List of active currencies. I won't object. As for the currency page I think it should be left alone. – Zntrip 21:40, 11 December 2005 (UTC)
 * I'd have said either List of circulating currencies or List of currencies in use, but I'm principally in favour. [[Image:European-Austrian flag hybrid.svg|20px]] ナイトスタリオン ✉ 10:52, 12 December 2005 (UTC)
 * Hm. List of circulating currencies, implies that people actually use the currencies, this really is a list of official currencies, with a few de facto ones for places that don’t have their own currencies.  How about List of official currencies? – Zntrip 05:46, 13 December 2005 (UTC)
 * Mh, okay - but then we can never add the Transnistrian ruble to the list. ;) [[Image:European-Austrian flag hybrid.svg|20px]] ナイトスタリオン ✉ 08:01, 13 December 2005 (UTC)
 * Sure we can, it was declared official by the Transnistrian government. Uh, wait, was that a joke?  Anyway, what does everybody think about renameing this page to List of official currencies? – Zntrip 23:26, 13 December 2005 (UTC)
 * If possible, I'd like to try to match the category structure proposal, whether that means picking a name for this article to match that (circulating) or changing that to match this. For the categories, there was a split Ancient/Medieval/Modern, and also Modern/Historical which had to be merged. So, I chose Ancient/Medieval/Modern obsolete/Circulating. I'm not tied to those names (or even that structure, if someone has a better idea), but since the category and the list will probably match, the names should probably also match. Mom2jandk 06:13, 14 December 2005 (UTC)
 * So, is "List of circulating currencies" okay? I understand zntrip's point, but I don't think "official currencies" works either for the list or the category because obsolete currencies are also official, just not active/circulating. We could use active and obsolete for the categories. I'm still partial to "circulating" even if it's not perfect, but whatever everyone else wants is fine with me. Ingrid 23:50, 17 December 2005 (UTC)


 * Sounds good. ;) – Zntrip 23:58, 17 December 2005 (UTC)

Formatting & additions
The denominations shouldn't be capitalized, per the numismatics style guide. I don't want to deal with changing them though, so if no one else does, I guess they'll stay as is for now.

Also, what about the Channel Islands? They have their own coins (and maybe bills). I believe they're not exactly separate from the British pound, but not exactly equivalent either. UK money/legal tender status is confusing. There's no wikipedia entry for Alderney pound (but there is such a thing IRL). There is one for Guernsey pound, Isle of Man pound (which I believe should be Manx pound) and Jersey pound. Ingrid 22:34, 16 December 2005 (UTC)


 * The status of these currencies is similar to those of the Faroese krona to the Danish krone and of the Tuvaluan dollar to the Australian dollar: They're not separate as far as ISO and the international market are concerned, but they've got distinct notes and coins. [[Image:European-Austrian flag hybrid.svg|20px]] ナイトスタリオン ✉ 22:59, 16 December 2005 (UTC)


 * Actually, Guernsey and Jersey have their own currencies. So they have their own banknotes too. I'll get to the denominations capitalized thing.  And about the Manx pound, I think it is officialy the Isle of Man pound. – Zntrip 23:27, 16 December 2005 (UTC)


 * AFAIK, they're as separate from the Pound Sterling as the Faroese krona is from the Danish krone... I agree about the Isle of Man pound, though. [[Image:European-Austrian flag hybrid.svg|20px]] ナイトスタリオン ✉ 23:32, 16 December 2005 (UTC)


 * What do you mean "it is officially the Isle of Man pound"? Isn't something from the Isle of Man called Manx? Isn't our style guide to use "Somewhereian", i.e., Manx? I'm happy to be corrected when I'm wrong, I just want to understand. Thanks for taking care of the capitalization, zntrip. I hate to mention something like that when I don't want to deal with it myself. Ingrid 01:36, 17 December 2005 (UTC)


 * I think its called the Isle of Man pound (not Manx pound), because that's the article's name. That's what I meant by official. Of course, I'm just assuming that the articles is correct. I guess you could call it either one, like the new Israeli sheqel or the Israeli new sheqel. – Zntrip 02:53, 17 December 2005 (UTC)

Symbols
Do you think it would be a good idea to have a column for the symbol the currency uses? I assume they would need to be images as most of them would not be in most fonts. Zhatt 18:55, 23 December 2005 (UTC)


 * I have actually thought about that, it might make the page to big, but I think it will look nice. They wouldn’t necessarily all have to be images. Their could be a link to the Currency sign page which could have the symbols. So, I think it would be a great idea. – Zntrip 21:45, 23 December 2005 (UTC) PS, Zhatt, your user name is bright; that thing could give someone a seizure. ;)

Abkhazia, South Osetia
Why are those territories not included in the list? -- tasc talkdeeds 10:08, 18 April 2006 (UTC)


 * Abkhazia and South Ossetia are both include on this page. In Georgia’s entry there is a link to a note at the bottom of the page that says “Russian ruble (р., RUB, kopek, 100) is the only legal tender in Abkhazia additional legal tender in South Ossetia”. – Zntrip 00:08, 19 April 2006 (UTC)

List of circulating currencies
I've added Featured list candidates/List of circulating currencies. If anyone as added to this page, please provide references used. :) Jo e  I  11:40, 20 June 2006 (UTC)

Other currencies
Should the following currencies be added to this list?


 * Bolivian mvdol
 * Chilean unidades de formento
 * Colombian Unidad de Valor Real
 * Special Drawing Rights
 * Mexican Unidad de Inversion
 * WIR Franc
 * WIR Euro
 * UIC-Franc
 * Gold-Franc
 * European Unit of Account 17
 * European Unit of Account 9
 * European Monetary Unit
 * Bond Markets Units European Composite Unit

Also the Guinea-Bissau peso is listed in the ISO's list of currencies. Does anyone know of it is still used? – Zntrip 01:56, 22 June 2006 (UTC)


 * Guinea Bissau peso CFA franc replaced it in 1997
 * Special Drawing Rights not a currency
 * Mexican Unidad de Inversion index of funds not a currency
 * UIC Franc could be used
 * Gold-Franc replaced by Special Drawing Rights in 2003
 * European Currency Unit replaced by the euro
 * No info on wikipedia about others. I'll add UIC franc I think.  THNX Zntrip.  :)   Jo  e  I  08:12, 22 June 2006 (UTC)
 * If I added UIC Franc, I would have to add Liberty Dollar, and Ithaca Hours and such. I would rather just add a see also to Private currency.   Jo  e  I  10:22, 22 June 2006 (UTC)


 * I guess so, but also check unidades de formento. – Zntrip 03:29, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

Currency signs
I don’t know if it is possible, but is there a way to display some of the currency signs on this page? The signs that don’t appear in most Web browsers are the afghani, cedi, rupee, kip, tugrik, naira, guaraní, peso, hryvnia, and the rial. (The symbol for the Iran rial is a actually multiple characters.) If you want to see what they look like see this Adobe file from the Unicode Web site:. – Zntrip 03:25, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

Pegs, convertibility, promissory status
Should we add information on:


 * whether a currency is freely convertible (at least one African currency is not)
 * whether a currency is pegged to another currency, trades in a band, etc.
 * who manages a currency (independent central bank vs. direct government involvement)
 * whether a currency is fiat money or not (I think all are)
 * what the main monetary policy goal is
 * recent inflation rate in the area the currency is used
 * legal tender status

I'm trying to think of a way to fit that all into the table, but IMHO it's much more important information than what the subdivision is called.

RandomP 11:43, 7 July 2006 (UTC)


 * I think all that should be available on the currencies page. Seems like alot to get into a list that's allready full.   Jo  e  I  13:11, 7 July 2006 (UTC)


 * I agree, it does seem like a lot, and all of this is on the currencies' individual pages. But legal tender status is listed on this page. – Zntrip 23:21, 7 July 2006 (UTC)


 * Strongly agree The most important lesson I have learned as a programmer in the recent pass is that copying and pasting always causes trouble later. The same is true for code and stuff on Wikipedia. If something is updated, maintaining consistency would be a big hassle. This is a list, after all. I have no problem listing them separately by current legal status. But the bigger problem is, people have added a lot of defunct currency articles in the pass, notably by Dove1950, and this list gets outdated (not with respect to current event, but with respect to articles on Wikipedia). --Chochopk 01:03, 8 July 2006 (UTC)

Swiss Currency Sign
Where does the "S₣" appear and come from? I live in Switzerland and I NEVER EVER saw that sign. Swiss Franc is usually abreviated with "Fr." and (in international context) with it's ISO-Code CHF - "SFr." is no longer used and disappeared completely! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 157.161.88.147 (talk • contribs) 00:58, 8 July 2006 (UTC)

Double entries
Does anyone know how to make a double entry on the list for a country that has two currencies? For example, under Cuba, there would be two rows next to it with the Cuban peso and the Cuban convertible peso. A little like what’s on List of legislatures by country. – Zntrip 16:33, 13 July 2006 (UTC) --

This code

will give

We should do the same for Palestine? Countries that uses USD/AUD/NZD but have their own coins? --Chochopk 17:02, 13 July 2006 (UTC)


 * What countries are those? – Zntrip 03:41, 14 July 2006 (UTC)

smallest/largest coin/banknote
I appreciate your effort of bringing information to List of circulating currencies. But I think it is better if we leave the information of smallest/largest coin/banknote to the individual articles. I am a computer programmer, and one of the biggest problems in my work life is that people copy and paste stuff, and later only 1 copy is updated and the other copies become stale and become a bug. The same applies here. In addition, it is sometimes hard to tell which one is the smallest, as the smallest may be in the process of phasing out, and a bigger unit may eventually take the smallest place. The same applies for "very large" note, like 1000 Canadian dollars around year 2000. I hate to remove such important information, but it is for better maintainability. --Chochopk 09:25, 14 July 2006 (UTC)


 * I agree, and besides, there's only so much info that we can put on one page. – Zntrip 15:22, 14 July 2006 (UTC)

Liechtenstein frank and Kiribati dollar
Are the Liechtenstein frank and Kiribati dollar still minted? If it is not I would suggest removing it from this page. – Zntrip 16:13, 16 July 2006 (UTC)


 * Last minted Liechtenstein frank was in 1990. Kiribati did mint some coins that do not look like commemorative, in 1979 and 1992. Because they don't look like commemorative, so I think the better question is, are they still in use. I don't know the answer. --Chochopk 23:35, 16 July 2006 (UTC)

So should they be on the page? They're not made anymore. – Zntrip 03:13, 17 July 2006 (UTC)


 * Since we're on this subject, we might as well consider it for all instances:


 * I know this page is about circulating currencies. So the pre-euro ones are just here for comparison. I am suggesting the following:


 * If any coin was ever minted or any note was ever printed, make an article. Stub is ok.
 * Countries that mint their own subunit coins only, with a different name (let's call this Ecuador class)
 * Have something like East Timor centavo coins. And put it on List of circulating currencies (two-row style with main currency), but what about List of currencies?
 * Put it on navigational box
 * Make it clear that both the main currency and the local subunit coins are circulating in the main currency infobox as well as the country infobox
 * Countries/territories that have their own coins/notes and they are circulating (let's call this Faroe class)
 * Same style as Ecuador class
 * Countries/territories that have commemorative coins/notes (Liechtenstein class)
 * Infobox and list style as before, but "commemorative only" must be very visible somewhere
 * I'm not sure what to do with nav box. I'm thinking about having a separate sub group called "commemorative only. But this may open a can of worms.


 * Now what we have to do is to reach a consensus and classify them.


 * And thank you! For removing the stupid duplicate list in the article Currency. --Chochopk 05:48, 17 July 2006 (UTC)

From the list you have provided I would add the following with the reasons given:
 * Official independent currency:
 * Panamanian balboa, (official currency of Panama with its own ISO code and regulated by the Banco Nacional de Panama)
 * Ecuador class:
 * East Timor centavo coins, (recently minted and circulating)
 * Ecuadorian centavo coins (Ecuadorian sucre), (recently minted and circulating)
 * Faroe class:
 * Faroese króna, (recently minted and circulating)
 * Tuvaluan dollar, (recently minted and circulating) (if I am correct)
 * Commemorative only:
 * Cocos (Keeling) Islands dollar, (recently minted)
 * Cook Islands dollar, (recently minted)
 * Micronesian dollar, (recently minted) – Zntrip 15:48, 17 July 2006 (UTC)

It seems that our classifications are not so much different. What do you think about the actions that I suggested? --Chochopk 21:38, 17 July 2006 (UTC)


 * I agree with them compleatly. But for commemorative currencies how would we determine which ones are "circulating" so they could be on this list. – Zntrip 23:04, 17 July 2006 (UTC)


 * The rigorous way is to call/email embassies and ask them. I've seen some hardcore timezone fans did that. If real life prevents us from doing that, I guess we have to fall back to internet resources. I guess some tourist websites could be a good place, since they provide practical info (i.e. what's really circulating). Or government website. Also try wikitravel (not a wiki project tho) --Chochopk 00:40, 18 July 2006 (UTC)

This is what I found in the 2006 Standard Catalog of World Coins (unless otherwise noted):

Commemorative
 * American Samoa dollar – Last minted in 1988
 * British Virgin Islands dollar – Last minted in 2003
 * Cocos (Keeling) Islands dollar – Last minted in 2004
 * Kiribati dollar – Last minted in 2000
 * Liechtenstein frank – Last minted in 1990
 * Marshall Islands dollar – Last minted in 1998
 * Micronesian dollar – Last minted in 2004 (according to this link )
 * Nauruan dollar – Last minted in 2002
 * Niuean dollar – Last minted in 2002
 * Northern Mariana Islands dollar – Last minted in 2004 (according to this link )
 * Palauan dollar – Last minted in 2004
 * Pitcairn Islands dollar – Last minted in 1997
 * Tokelauan dollar – Last minted in 2000 (tala is Tokelauan for dollar)
 * Turks and Caicos Islands crown – Last minted in 1996

Official
 * East Timor centavo coins – Last minted in 2004
 * Ecuadorian centavo coins – Last minted in 2000 (know people that went there and used local coins)
 * El Salvador colon – “Note: The Monetary Integration Law of November 2000 resulted in the elimination of the Colon coinage and notes by early 2002. No new coins are expected to be minted.”
 * Faroese króna – Officialy used
 * Panamanian balboa – Still official in Panama
 * Tuvaluan dollar – Officialy used (in CIA World Factbook )

The ones that are crossed out I think have been discontinued and shouldn’t be on this page unless evidence of newer issues is found. Also, contacting diplomatic missions is not only a waste of time, but also near impossible. Most of the currencies in question are issued by territories that have no diplomatic missions or Pacific island nations that maybe have five diplomatic missions. (I have written to diplomatic missions in the past and have never gotten an answer.) – Zntrip 23:17, 18 July 2006 (UTC)


 * Somebody has a different opinion about Panamanian balboa. See Talk:Panamanian balboa. --Chochopk 18:21, 19 July 2006 (UTC)

It still has an ISO code and is contolled by the National Bank of Panama. At the very least it is used in finance. – Zntrip 22:56, 19 July 2006 (UTC)

I looked on the ISO 4217 page and it says that the El Salvador colon, Guinea-Bissau peso, and the Panamanian balboa are still in use. It also says that in Haiti the United States dollar is used. I guess they should be on this page... – Zntrip 23:36, 19 July 2006 (UTC)


 * I am suspecting the accuracy of that page, about the part that Guinea-Bissau still uses peso. --Chochopk 02:22, 20 July 2006 (UTC)


 * I just added the classification of these in the big table, with the additional classfication

I have to save my progress now because my internet is very untable. --Chochopk 03:17, 20 July 2006 (UTC)


 * I updated the table again. Here are some "currencies" that look like and may be circulating. I will use mintage number to verify.

This is what I found (format is place (currency) lattest year of minting, source:

Commemoratives
 * Alderney (pound) 2006
 * Asension (pound) 2003 2006 Standard Catalog of World Coins
 * British Virgin Islands (dollar) 2006
 * Cocos (Keeling) Islands (dollar) 2005 2006 Standard Catalog of World Coins
 * Cook Islands (dollar) 2006
 * Kiribati (dollar) 2005
 * Micronesia (dollar) 2004
 * Nagorno-Karabakh (dram) 2004 2006 Standard Catalog of World Coins
 * Nauru (dollar) 2005
 * Niue (dollar) 2005
 * Northern Mariana Islands (dollar) 2004
 * Palau (dollar) 2006
 * South Georgia and South Sandwich Islands (pound) continuous
 * Tristan de Cunha (pound) 2005

Official
 * Ecuador centavo coins
 * Faroe Islands (króna)
 * Salvadoran colón
 * Tuvalu (dollar)
 * Panama (balboa)

I will add all of the above unless there are any objections. – Zntrip 15:45, 21 July 2006 (UTC)


 * Wow, that's good research. Of course, I wouldn't have any objection. I also think it's as important to create articles for the missing entities, a stub is good enough for now. I just have one question about El Salvador. The central bank says:


 * On January, 2001 when the Monetary Integration Law went into effect, the United States dollar was authorized as legal tender in El Salvador (Art. 3).  The Law established that both currencies, the dollar and colón  (Arts. 3 and 5) could circulate as legal tender, establishing at that time the exchange rate of ¢8.75 per Dollar (Art. 1).
 * --Chochopk 18:20, 21 July 2006 (UTC)

Yes, the Salvadoran colón is still legal tender in El Salvador. – Zntrip 23:00, 21 July 2006 (UTC)

Kyrgyzstani Som and Uzbekistani som
IMHO, I don't think сом, su’m and сўм are "symbols". They are the full name of the unit. They just happen to be short. And it's so‘m not su’m. --Chochopk 23:38, 16 July 2006 (UTC)
 * I guess your right, I'll remove them. – Zntrip 03:11, 17 July 2006 (UTC)

Somali shilling and Somaliland shilling
I can't seem to find exactly how the subunits of these two schillings are spelled. The catalog is completely not reliable in this matter. And Somali shilling changed its spelling numerous times in the past. Note that there are separate articles for "cent" and "centesimo". --Chochopk 23:40, 16 July 2006 (UTC)
 * The Somali shilling page has both spellings... – Zntrip 03:12, 17 July 2006 (UTC)

Tajikistani somoni
I'm not inclined to believe the symbol for this entry; it's currently listed as SM, but surely Tajikistan uses Cyrillic? In which case it seems that см is much more likely.--Ajhoughton 17:50, 26 July 2006 (UTC)


 * Sound reasonable. But before we have any concrete evidence, let's not jump to conclusion. --Chochopk 23:05, 26 July 2006 (UTC)

Currency signs
This section of the article needs some fixing. I suspect that most of the symbols on here are not in use. For example I doubt that “Af” is used in Afghanistan, but there is a afghani sign in Unicode which is probably used (but has been removed on this list). I also don’t know if you should used things like “A$” or “Z$” because I’m sure that in Australia and Zimbabwe the standard dollar sign is simply used. The same would go with variants of the pound or franc sign. – Zntrip 05:38, 28 July 2006 (UTC)


 * Ajhoughton, a new wikipedian, has been working on this world wide. --Chochopk 06:24, 28 July 2006 (UTC)

World wide? – Zntrip 18:58, 28 July 2006 (UTC)

Yes, that would be my fault :-) I couldn't identify the Afghani symbol, but I did find reference in various places to the use of "Af". I probably should not have removed it, and should just have added "Af" as well; my apologies.

This does raise one other point, however, which I think is worth discussing here; there are a number of cases (of which "Af", I think is one), where there are currency symbols that might not be used by natives of a particular country, or that would only be used for disambiguation purposes ("A$", "Z$', et al.)

I am of the opinion that all symbols/abbreviations in common use should be listed on Wikipedia, since I think that best serves the community. Some people, for instance Valentinian, who I hope will not mind being singled out here, seem to feel that only the "official" symbols should be included. Valentinian and I were having a discussion about the merits of including NKr, SKr and DKr for the krone/a currencies, for instance.

Perhaps, as has happened in a few cases already, it would be appropriate to point out that a symbol is unofficial, or is only ever used for disambiguation? I certainly don't think it makes sense to remove all unofficial symbols and abbreviations, since some currencies don't actually have an official symbol (yet/at all) despite there being various things in common usage. A particularly good example would be the Russian ruble, as I believe they're choosing an official symbol at the moment.

I will also add that since going through all of the currencies, I found the Unicode Consortium's CLDR (Common Locale Data Repository) Project. This is currently used by IBM's ICU library as well as (I believe) Microsoft's .NET frameworks, so it is in use in rather a lot of computer software; it uses both the "Af" symbol and the "NKr", "SKr" and "DKr" symbols that were previously reverted (though if you are in the Afghan locale, you will see Arabic instead, and similarly if you are in the Norwegian locale you would see "kr" rather than "NKr", but still "SKr" and "DKr"). If anyone wanted to contribute to that project, I believe they have mechanisms allowing that. Equally I imagine that the data would be quite a useful resource for this part of Wikipedia.

I will probably bow out of the discussion at this point since I don't really mind what the conclusion is and have rather a lot of other work to get on with. It has been rather a fascinating excursion for me into a field that I don't normally come into contact with, and I hope that you find my changes (and my thoughts here) more useful than not.--Ajhoughton 22:04, 28 July 2006 (UTC)

BTW, some of the changes Zntrip just made are certainly wrong. For instance, MOP$ is certainly an official abbreviation for the Pataca (it's used on the Macanese governments' own websites), and the Brazilian real is supposed to have a cifrão rather than a dollar sign (at least, according to the Cifrão page). I don't have time to look through in detail to see which other ones I'm certain are wrong, but I think those are not the only ones.--Ajhoughton 22:18, 28 July 2006 (UTC)


 * I believe it would be best to only include the symbols used in day-to-day commerce and leave the disambiguational symbols (Ikr, NZ$, C£) for the currencies’ own page.


 * For example “MOP$”, even if it is on a Macanese government Web site is most defiantly not used in Macao. “MOP$” is simply the ISO code for the pataca with a dollar sign at the end.  It is more realistic that in Macao “$” is used.


 * As for the cifrão, I doubt its use. I have seen advertisements on Brazilian Web sites with “R$”.  The cifrão is mostly substituted with a dollar sign because the dollar sign usually appears on keyboards with only one vertical line. – Zntrip 00:13, 29 July 2006 (UTC)


 * Are you sure about MOP$? In Macau, the Hong Kong dollar is also an acceptable (and from the looks of things, popular) currency, so they have two currencies that want the same symbol… Just using $ won't work so well. Try Googling for MOP; I think there's plenty of evidence that MOP$ is in common use.--Ajhoughton 01:08, 29 July 2006 (UTC)

Merge
Should this be merged with ISO 4217? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Wellithy (talk • contribs) 06:14, 10 August 2006 (UTC)


 * No. – Zntrip 20:17, 10 August 2006 (UTC)


 * oppose. Not all "currencies" listed here have ISO 4217 code. Some codes listed on the article of ISO 4217 are obsolete, therefore not on this page. --Chochopk 22:57, 10 August 2006 (UTC)

There are some redundancy between this and ISO4217. Could we remove deprecate the list of used currencies in one of the pages? (cons) The 2 main inofs not in ISO 4217 (the document and the standard) are the currency symbols and the minor-unit name. (pros) However these tables should be kept-in sync somehow. Any suggestions. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Wellithy (talk • contribs) 05:47, 14 August 2006 (UTC)

It does not matter if there are redundancies. The ISO 4217 page lists all ISO 4217 codes ever used. This page lists currencies that are used now. There is really no need for a merge. – Zntrip 17:15, 14 August 2006 (UTC)

Apology for the confusion, I meant to merge ISO 4217 with List of circulating currencies as they are/should be essentially the same (at least this is my understanding). ISO 4217 has 3 tables, Table 1 is essentially the valid currencies, Table 3 lists the obsolete currencies (when a currency is deprecated it is moved from Table 1 to Table 3). Wael Ellithy 11:34, 16 August 2006 (UTC)

Maybe removing the table from ISO 4217 and pointing to this page would be a better idea. Wael Ellithy 11:38, 16 August 2006 (UTC)


 * As I said before, the lists are too different to be merged. – Zntrip 17:41, 16 August 2006 (UTC)

Population - Usage
I'm looking for some more details. Do we have sources for these:
 * Amount of currency in circulation (maybe on some recent date in the past)
 * Population who are primary users of the currency
 * Number of countries where the currency is used officially. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Natrajdr (talk • contribs) 01:42, 11 August 2006 (UTC)


 * There is no way for to know how much currency is circulating.
 * This list is by country, so this is here already.
 * If the currency is used officially, it is listed here for every country. Also, check the currencies page (i.e. United States dollar) for more information. – Zntrip 17:43, 11 August 2006 (UTC)

Template:Lists by country
The lists by country template has been added to this page, I think it makes the page look awkward since it leaves lots of empty space next to the table with the list. Would anyone object to its removal? – Zntrip 22:09, 16 December 2006 (UTC)


 * Actually, even at the resolution of 1024 × 768 (about 1/2 of the internet users), even with the list by countries, most rows are still single line. I don't think it's a big problem. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Chochopk (talk • contribs) 22:22, 16 December 2006 (UTC).

I understand that, but I just think it's awkward to have lots of empty space under the template and next to the table. Perphaps we should add another template. Isn't there a numismatics one? – Zntrip 23:21, 16 December 2006 (UTC)


 * A numismatic template that contains currency lists of different flavor? To my knowledge there isn't one. And the list by countries template wouldn't be a problem if it were horizontal and at the bottom of the page. --ChoChoPK (球球PK) (talk | contrib) 23:32, 16 December 2006 (UTC)

I found one, numismatics, but I can't get it to be under the other one. – Zntrip 01:58, 17 December 2006 (UTC)


 * If your looking for a template with purely Numismatic lists, we can easily make one(the thought had occured to me awhile back), although that is what the category should be for. Tho, with templates, we usually make a category of matching info, so it would basically be the same.   Jo  e  I  02:45, 17 December 2006 (UTC)

Can some one put the Template:Numismatics on this page under Template:Lists by country? Other wise I think Template:Lists by country just makes the page look wierd and I'll be tempted to remove it. – Zntrip 00:47, 20 December 2006 (UTC)


 * IMHO, Template:Lists by country should be made into a horizontal nav box, just like Template:Lists of countries. In a crystal clear language, Lists by country is "list of x sorted by country", whereas Lists of countries is "list of countries by sorted by some criteria". I would like to make both of these like our numismatic navbox. I'm very interested in the development of template space. If I haven't done that in a few days, please remind me. --ChoChoPK (球球PK) (talk | contrib) 04:46, 20 December 2006 (UTC)

Kelantanese dinar
Should the Kelantanese dinar be added to this list? – Zntrip 23:58, 30 April 2007 (UTC)
 * Maybe considering this is not a page of official currencies it mighr as well be put in this section, only because it is sanctioned by a governing body. Enlil Ninlil 00:24, 1 May 2007 (UTC)

Greenland
Any particular reason why Greenland (currency: Danish krone) is missing? --MosheA 01:35, 3 May 2007 (UTC)


 * The last sentence of the into of the article: "All dependencies listed here use a currency other than that of the sovereign state that they belong to." – Zntrip 02:23, 3 May 2007 (UTC)
 * Talking about Greenland, anymore information on their upcoming currency issuence? Greenland Krone. Enlil Ninlil 03:34, 3 May 2007 (UTC)
 * Question, Zntrip: is the currency listed for the sovereign states the only legal tedner currency in that sovereign state? For example, is the Isle of Man pound the only money used in the Isle of Man, or is the GBP also legal? --MosheA 13:09, 3 May 2007 (UTC)
 * The currency listed is the only currency used as legal tedner. If not, additional currencies should be added. As for the Isle of Man and other Crown dependencies, I do not know if the GBP is also legal tedner. If it in fact is, it should be added to the list along with the currency of each Crown dependency. – Zntrip 04:20, 4 May 2007 (UTC)
 * From there web sites they state that the English pound is legal tender in the crown dependencies but the currency of Jersey, Gibralter etc are not legal tender in the Britian itself, andd must be changed into English pounds. I wonder if it is like the Cook islands where they had to keep two New Zealand dollars for every Cook Island dollar issued?. Enlil Ninlil 04:58, 4 May 2007 (UTC)
 * I'll add them then. – Zntrip 03:08, 5 May 2007 (UTC)

Order
Alphabetically Akrotiri and Dhekelia comes before Albania. Is there any reason why their order is changed? Timur lenk 01:16, 21 July 2007 (UTC)


 * It's just an error, I'll change it. – Zntrip 01:39, 21 July 2007 (UTC)

Nagorno-Karabakh dram
Is there any evidence of the fractional currency of the Nagorno-Karabakh dram? I thought it consists of a 2 and 10 dram bill which have nothing to do to the armenian dram). If so, the entry about luma should be removed. Timur lenk 13:50, 22 July 2007 (UTC)


 * According to the 2006 Standard Catalogue of World Coins, in 2004 two types of 50 luma coins were produced. – Zntrip 15:45, 22 July 2007 (UTC)

A question (poll)
Do you think the article would be enhanced by adding more entries, that is, dependencies that have the same currency as the sovereign state that controls them? This is just a poll to gage the community’s opinion. – Zntrip 05:13, 18 September 2007 (UTC)


 * What do you have in mind? --ChoChoPK (球球PK) (talk | contrib) 06:25, 18 September 2007 (UTC)

Adding places like Greenland and Puerto Rico that don't have their own currencies. I'm not necessarily in favour of the idea, I just want to see what people think about it. – Zntrip 01:04, 19 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Mh. Not really necessary, is it? — Nightstallion 16:32, 19 September 2007 (UTC)


 * That's what I'm thinking. – Zntrip 22:42, 19 September 2007 (UTC)


 * I agree, we don't need to expand in this field. Enlil Ninlil 06:53, 14 October 2007 (UTC)

Palestinie
Currently the Palestinian territories of the Gaza Strip and the West Bank are collectively included in this list under “Palestine”, which a link to “Palestinian territories”. The flag shown is the flag of the Palestinian National Authority, the Palestinian territories’ current de jure government. The entry is also in bold face indicating that it is a “partially or wholly unrecognized” country, which is true since Palestine is recognized by 108 sovereign states. The source provided for the list of countries and territories, lists both the Gaza Strip and the West Bank, which on this list are included under the entry of “Palestine”, which means that it is properly sourced. Radical-Dreamer has altered the entry of “Palestine” repeatedly, claiming that it was not sourced. I would like to hear his or her thoughts on the matter. – Zntrip 23:47, 8 October 2007 (UTC)


 * Your source clearly states 'Gaza Strip' and 'West Bank'. 'Palestine' is not a country and therefore 'Gaza Strip' and the 'West Bank' can not be merged into one since there is no country nor territory called 'Palestine'. Please stick to the source. Radical-Dreamer 18:12, 10 October 2007 (UTC)

“There is no territory called 'Palestine'”!? Are you crazy? Take a look at an atlas my friend. Your argument is totally fallacious. First of all, I don’t need a source to claim the existence of a territory called “Palestine”. Secondly, no one is calling Palestine a sovereign state. If you read the introduction to the list, it clearly states that “partially or wholly unrecognized countries” are included, among them Palestine. It appears to me that you are here to impose your biased point of view on the article and masking your motives by claiming that information that is common knowledge is not sourced. I would like to ask you to stop editing the article and explain you position. It is possible to compromise if you engage in an actual discussion. – Zntrip 05:41, 11 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Considering the Oslo accords actually classes these two territories as one identity, make them under the heading Palestine.Enlil Ninlil 07:53, 11 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Absolutely. It should be Palestine. — Nightstallion 16:09, 11 October 2007 (UTC)

Additional source?
Page 236 FOREIGN MONEY [Based on information provided by the International Monetary Fund updated to July 26, 2000] http://www.gpoaccess.gov/stylemanual/2000/chapter_txt-17.html jengod (talk) 21:38, 6 March 2008 (UTC)
 * It seems like a valid source, but I don't think we realy need another one. – Zntrip 23:58, 6 March 2008 (UTC)

78.151.146.252’s edits
The last two sentences of the first paragraph read, “Partially or wholly unrecognized countries are in bold. All dependencies listed here use a currency other than that of the sovereign state that administers them.”


 * Undoing the bold face text deviates from the established style of this page and seem to serve no purpose. Bold face is used to differentiate between sovereign states with widespread international recognition and between those without widespread international recognition.


 * Northern Cyprus should not be moved because the word “northern” is part of the short name. Just as you wouldn’t move Western Sahara, South Africa, South Ossetia, the Northern Mariana Islands, or East Timor you wouldn’t move Northern Cyprus.


 * As you can see in the first paragraph, currencies are arranged by territory. The People’s Republic of China, Hong Kong, Macao, and the Republic of China are all separate entries, and should not be grouped together under “China.” – Zntrip 19:17, 2 July 2008 (UTC)


 * I will agree with the first two points. However, I strongly disagree with the last. The UN recognizes that Hong Kong, Macao, and the ROC are all part of the PRC. The article shouldn't start spreading out the different territories across the list. It should place Hong Kong, Macao, and Taiwan underneath China, so it is clear. A person is not going to look at China, rather than "Hong Kong" or "Macao". 78.151.146.252 (talk) 20:12, 2 July 2008 (UTC)


 * Hong Kong and Macao are special administrative regions and therefore have a degree of autonomy. They are part of the People’s Republic of China, and no one will argue that. Since they use their own currency they will be categorized just like every other autonomous entity on the list. As for the Republic of China, while the majority of countries recognize it as a province of the People’s Republic of China, it is obvious that it exists as a de facto state. – Zntrip 22:16, 2 July 2008 (UTC)


 * Actually no. The now majority of countries in the world recognize the PRC over the ROC, since the PRC refuses diplomatic ties with anyone who establishes them with the ROC, and the ROC's place in the UN was lost to the PRC since the UN now considers that the ROC is a part of the PRC. And Hong Kong and Macau are not autonomous regions. They are semi-autonomous. Please go and read up on the difference. A reader will look for them under China, and that is where they shall go. 89.242.88.123 (talk) 07:53, 3 July 2008 (UTC)

Sovereign Military Order of Malta
The intention of this page is to list currencies used and issued by sovereign states and their dependencies. The Sovereign Military Order of Malta is not listed because, while it does issue a currency, it is not an actual state. Note there are numerous ISO 4217 currencies not listed because they are not issued by states, such as the UIC franc issued by the International Union of Railways and Special Drawing Rights issued by the International Monetary Fund. – Zntrip 17:47, 4 October 2008 (UTC)
 * I support the previous edit on the grounds that the title of this list is "List of circulating currencies", not "List of circulating state-issued currencies". Even if it refers to the latter, it is still unable to satisfactorily respond to the following -
 * (a) Some currencies like Euro, Central African CFA franc, East Caribbean dollar and West African CFA franc are issued by supranational organs, not by any single state.
 * (b) Many states on this list do not issue currencies itself but use those published by other states.
 * (c) Some states legally permit the use of precious metal as medium of exchange. If it is the case that the intention of this list is to list out currencies "used" by states/dependencies, those types of precious metal on the ISO 4217 list should not be excluded.
 * (d) You're right in the sense that SMOM is not a typical sovereign "state". However, the legal (sovereign) status of those "unrecognized" or "partially recognized" states such as Somaliland, which is recognized by none or just a handful of "de jure" sovereign states, is more disputable than that of SMOM with diplomatic relations with more than 100 states and international organizations. So if SMOM cannot be put on this list, those "unrecognized" and "partially recognized" states should also be excluded from the list until their status are totally cleared.
 * (e) In view of the problems listed above, I am of the opinion that all currencies with active ISO 4217 codes must be included in this list.
 * – DD Ting 05:52, 5 October 2008 (UTC)

Look, you’re over thinking this. The purpose of this page is to list currencies used in places. If a sovereign state or a dependency declares a currency official legal tender, it is listed here. It doesn’t matter who issued the currency, what matters is who uses it. – Zntrip 21:05, 5 October 2008 (UTC)


 * Indeed I get confused with what you have pointed out here so far. At first you mentioned that the currencies listed here are both "used and issued by sovereign states and their dependencies" (quoted from your 1st post). In your 2nd post, you seemed evading my above questions about those currencies issued by supranational entities by shifting to the "use" side. Even if your latter definition (the "use" principle) applies, the SMOM case is still valid because the Maltese Scudo can be "used in places" (quoted from your 2nd post) where SMOM has rights of extra-territoriality. Examples include its headquarters and its embassy to the Republic of Italy, both located in Rome. It could hardly be imaged that there exists a currency in the world which is issued by a country/entity but can't be used elsewhere.
 * An additional remark: It states in the very beginning of this list that it contains the "192" current official or de facto currencies of the 192 United Nations member states…. In fact, there are only 182 types of currencies on the list.
 * - DD Ting 05:32, 6 October 2008 (UTC)

Currencies issued by “supranational organs” such as the euro and the East and West African francs are included because countries use the currency. Like I said, “It doesn’t matter who issued the currency, what matters is who uses it.” What this article encompasses are sovereign states. You can’t put your finger on a globe over the Sovereign Military Order of Malta – it is an organization, not a place. Sure, maybe you can use the scudo to buy something from its gift shop in Rome, so what? I can use Disney dollars at more Disneyland. And the Order has diplomatic relations with more places than Taiwan, again so what? For a currency to be listed on this page it must be legal tender of an actual country or territory. The Sovereign Military Order of Malta is neither a country nor a territory and therefore cannot be listed. As for your additional comment, if that is what you have found, I suggest you change the page. – Zntrip 04:59, 6 October 2008 (UTC)


 * While I still have reservation in your comment, I try to revise the definition in the very beginning of the page to better reflect what we have discussed and clarified here. Please take a look to see if you have further comment.
 * And, may I take the liberty to point out what we are doing here is just to discuss and clarify something but not to fight against each other on a warlike platform. I think all of us should be in favour of, and try our best to keep, a friendly discussion environment in every parts of Wikipedia. So I hope all of use would beware of our tone when pursuing an idea or making a response.
 * - DD Ting 19:16, 6 October 2008 (UTC)

I have to agree with Zntrip; the SMOM is not a country, so it shouldn't be on the list. — Nightstallion 07:29, 6 October 2008 (UTC)


 * DD Ting, I respect your opinions and I hope I don’t come off as belligerent. That said, what do you mean by revising the beginning? Do you think the list should be expanded to entities other than countries? – Zntrip 21:26, 6 October 2008 (UTC)
 * First, the latter remark of my previous post is just a general observation for what I have read in other parts of this discussion page, not for your comments on the SMOM case. I'm sorry if it caused any misunderstanding to you.
 * Second, you may wish to note that the 245 entities in the List of countries covers all (and nothing more than that) the de jure and de facto (including both partially recognized and unrecognized) sovereign states and their inhabited dependencies listed on this table. Please take a count of the total number of countries on this table as compared with that of the List of countries and you will get what I mean. Thanks.
 * - DD Ting 17:43, 7 October 2008 (UTC)

I understand, but there are 136 countries listed here because dependencies that use the same currency as their parent country are not listed. – Zntrip 00:03, 8 October 2008 (UTC)

Currency of Kosovo
The page says it uses the Serbian dinar but its my understanding the de facto currency is the euro. 76.18.160.16 (talk) 03:48, 4 January 2009 (UTC)

Note on HKD
The note on the Hong Kong dollar isn't needed. It's mixing languages: in English, there's only one subunit used: the cent. The terms "sin" and "houh" are only meaningful in Chinese, but this article uses only English names (we don't mention that "dollar" is "yuan" in Chinese, for example, and shouldn't, since that info is readily available at Hong Kong dollar and would merely clutter up this list). As the footnote stood, we had a note from "cent" saying 10 sin = 1 houh. Well, what's a sin? A houh? How do they relate to a cent? Better to just keep it in English and let those who want to know about the Chinese names read it on the main article on the currency.

Full disclosure: Garden's edit was essentially a proxy edit for me because he was helping me with some technical elements, so don't count this as two votes or anything. Heimstern Läufer (talk) 13:25, 3 June 2009 (UTC)
 * According to the Hong Kong dollar article, the subunits have different names in Chinese and in English. Both Chinese and English are official languages of Hong Kong. I think the terminology in both languages should be clearly mentioned. - Alan (talk) 16:43, 3 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Well, where would we put the Chinese terminology? I can't see that there's any room in the table. As a footnote, maybe we could, though it needs to be made much clearer than it was before. I frankly don't think it's worth it in a list and that it's fine to just keep it on the main article. Heimstern Läufer (talk) 23:37, 3 June 2009 (UTC)

I don't understand what the problem is. This list includes multiple fractional units for other currencies, so why are we removing one from the Hong Kong dollar? – Zntrip 18:09, 6 June 2009 (UTC)
 * These are not multiple fractional units; they are names for the same units in different languages. (OK, technically not true of "houh", since that has no English equivalent.) Mentioning "sin" and "houh" in the footnote alone doesn't make sense, as it tells us nothing of how they relate to the dollar and cent. We could explain that "sin" is Chinese for "cent" and "houh" for ten cents, in which case we'd also need to mention that "yuan" (or its Cantonese equivalent) is "dollar", though I can't see that that's necessary, since it seems to me that none of the other multiligual currencies have multiple languages represented. Heimstern Läufer (talk) 00:28, 7 June 2009 (UTC)

I've fixed the note, all I did was replace the word "sin" with "cents". – Zntrip 00:52, 7 June 2009 (UTC)


 * No, it's still incorrect. Ten cents are not one houh. The houh exists only in Chinese, not in English. The coin worth a tenth of a Hong Kong dollar is labelled in English as ten cents but in Chinese as one houh. The houh exists only in Chinese, not in English, and thus trying to say how many cents equal one houh is mixing languages. Heimstern Läufer (talk) 01:04, 7 June 2009 (UTC)

According to the Hong Kong dollar article, the houh or ho is a fractional unit of the currency. If this is in fact correct, it should be added to this list. Just because the word for houh does not exist in English, does not mean the concept does not exist. – Zntrip 01:10, 7 June 2009 (UTC)


 * Like I said, we could include it, but it would only make sense if we also include the Chinese names of the other units. The houh makes sense only in the context of the Chinese name of the dollar; i.e., "yuan". Otherwise you might as well try to say how many centavos are in a dollar. As I've said, I don't think it's needed to include the information about the Chinese units here, as they're readily available at the article linked to. You say if the fact is correct, it should be added to the list. That's just not true: factuality is not the only criteria for information to be in the list; relevancy also is. As long is there is no info on other Chinese units, the info on the houh is completely irrelevant and even misleading because it suggests that one would say call ten cents one houh in English, which is not the case. If we include the other Chinese units, it then is relevant, though I think it's unneeded for a summary list like this. Heimstern Läufer (talk) 01:16, 7 June 2009 (UTC)

I think I understand now, I'll leave the page as it is. – Zntrip 01:23, 7 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Or, here's an idea: If it's really, really important to name the other subunit, we could write something like this: "In Chinese, a second subunit exists: the houh, which is equal to 10 sin (cents). 'Houh' has no standard English translation." This would properly acknowledge that the term is Chinese-only and relate it to the English terms used in the table. I'm still not sure it's needed, but if it is, here's a way it could be done accurately. Heimstern Läufer (talk) 05:49, 7 June 2009 (UTC)

I don't think it is needed either, your explanation has already convinced me. – Zntrip 21:22, 7 June 2009 (UTC)

Adding a Monetary Basis Column
I took a stab at this, but my difficulty in quickly finding reliable information for most countries underscores the need for something like this. I think an additional column called Monetary Basis or something of that nature might be very useful. Most currencies are backed by debt owed to the central bank; others are backed by precious metal reserves, etc. I think we should probably use this page to compile all the research for this and establish a shorthand for all the various mechanisms for currency issue, perhaps ensuring that each column's value links to a section of the respective currency's page explaining the means of currency issue in greater detail. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.151.125.133 (talk) 15:45, 15 June 2009 (UTC)