Talk:List of counties of the Kingdom of Hungary located in Slovakia

Untitled
The title of this page does not correspond to the introduction...the introduction seems to imply that these regions were traditionally Hungarian...am I missing something here? freestylefrappe 21:23, Jun 7, 2005 (UTC)

Slovakia was part of the Kingdom of Hungary from the 11th-14th century onwards. The term "Slovakia" for this territory has proovably existed since the 15th century (but is much older in reality), however without a clearly defined southern border (hence the "present-day" Slovakia)...This should have answered all your questions. Juro 03:41, 8 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Talking about Slovaks before 19th century is an anachronism. There was a Slavic population there, but not "Slovaks". It was not "Slovakia" that was a part of Hungary (this Kingdom of Hungary thing is also very interesting, I think Slovaks intend to make the distinction between Uhorsko and Madarsko, but there is _no_ such differentiation in any other language), but these were the northern territories of Hungary ("Upper lands", "Felvidék").

Do not take your personal ignorance as a fact. The term Slovakia is testified since the 14/15th century, and was used very frequently since the 16th century. It also appeared in contemporary (German) encylopaedias etc.. The distinction between Great Hungary and present-day Hungary also occurs in Czech (there they have a even special term for Hungary proper), and Croatian and Serbian (I do not know about Romanian, Slovenian etc.). The distinction is both correct and highly practical for history texts (enables to avoid problems when someone's ethnicity is unknown for example). Juro 23:51, 11 August 2005 (UTC)


 * OK, I would be interested in any reliable sources from the 14-16th centuries using the term "Slovakia" (not Felvidék, not "Upper Hungary" or similar") to the territory of present Slovakia. As to Uhorsko/Madarsko - I think it reflects the Slovakian (and OK, maybe Serbian, etc) view, that present Hungary is a successor of a former multiethnic country of the same name, just like Slovakia, etc. This differs from the Hungarian view of history: Hungarians tend to look at their country as the country founded by St Stephen, that has been in existence for more than 1000 years, and has been tragically mutilated in 1921 (hence it is "Csonka-Magyarország, truncated Hungary). (Note, that no major European languages, English, German, Spanish etc makes this distinction between Uhorsko and Madarsko). I don't think Hungarians will accept the Slovakian view or the Slovakians the Hungarian one in the near future, but it helps to understand each other if we know the story of the other party. (Eg we were never told about this Uhorsko/Madarsko differentation in school in Hungary, nor about the Moravian Empire, etc - but I wish we were.) Btw I'm a Hungarian with at least one Slovakian grandparent, and think that these nations have so much in common, that it is stupid to look at each other as rivals or enemies.

Since I have been discussing these things several times somewhere in the wikipedias, I see no point in repeating the same things all the time, let me just remind you that it is also correct in German, for example, to distinguish between ungarisch and magyar (but only as an adjective), the same holds (to a lesse extent) for English. Also, like 99% of "normal" people (even including Slovaks), your assumption about the use of "Upper Hungary" is just wrong in terms of time and in terms of space. Next, Slovaks do not look at Magyars as rivals or enemies (and if at all, some 10% just fear the Magyars or just emotionally "hate" them, without actually knowing why, but it has a lot to do with the Hungarian language and with the fact that many Hungarians just do not stop to claim neighbouring territories). Also, note that what we are talking about here is not a "view" and there is nothing to teach about it at schools, because it is simply how Slovak language has developed, that's all - the distinctions between Magyars and Hungarians is quite old (and quite natural) in Slovakia, Croatia, Czechia etc. and has no implications for historical facts. Juro 17:42, 12 August 2005 (UTC)


 * In German magyar = ungarisch, in English, Magyar = Hungarian. Where are the quotes of the reliable sources about the term "Slovakia" having been used during the 14-16th centuries?


 * Since I see from your your constribution that you are unable to any kind of "higher" thinking and knowledge (neither in terms of linguistic, not in terms of history), I certainly will not go to a library and search hundreds of quotes for you...If you want to stay with what you have heared in an elementary school, stay with it. If I wanted to discuss with children, I have many other possibilities than to do it here...Juro 19:34, 12 August 2005 (UTC)

I think your last contribution speaks for itself, and reflects very well the fears and complexes of a young nation.

"In Slovakia"
We don't need to have "In Slovakia" at the end of each heading because this article is clearly about Slovakia. It's just redundant. freestylefrappe 19:44, Jun 10, 2005 (UTC)

OK, but a heading ending with "incorporated" without anything else just sounds weird (at least) to me. Juro 23:04, 10 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Why does this page contain for example Mošoň or Ráb region? I have never heard anybody saying, that he comes from such a region. I think that comparsion of slovak regions to Hungarian counties is odd. If we are talking about traditonal regions, then we should forget about administrative units. Talking about Ráb region in Slovakia is riddiculous. ohtar