Talk:List of deadliest Atlantic hurricanes

How to make changes to this list?
Making changes to this list needs to be done carefully. Many of these storms don't have articles, so there are no other sources *within* wikipedia. The main source is the NHC document given in the sources; post-1996 storms use the main hurricane article as their source. Changing any numbers for pre-1996 storms I think would make things a lot harder to verify - the solution here is that anything that's going to be changed needs to have its own source, with note added to the sources list and ref used on that storm's entry in the table. Jdorje 23:35, 2 January 2006 (UTC)


 * Sorry if I was too bold, but I added summaries for the 6 deadliest hurricanes. Hurricanehink 22:19, 9 March 2006 (UTC)


 * Adding summaries is good. What we have to be careful with is changing the ordering of the list.  Because of uncertainty over the number killed, it is impossible to impose a fixed ordering on the list.  Thus if we try to change the ordering ourselves, we run into POV issues.  Just as an example, Flora is listed at #6 with 7,200-8,000 deaths (even though the flora article says 7,192), whereas the #5 entry gives 2,000-8,000 deaths.  It might be tempting to reverse the two entries, but really there is no basis for any ordering at all.  Which is why we have to go to official sources - the NHC - and use their ordering.  Only when the NHC doesn't give updated information in the list (for mitch or okeechobee for instance) should we change the ordering. — jdorje (talk) 22:59, 9 March 2006 (UTC)


 * You sure the table is best where it is? I personally liked where it was before. Now, there's too much white space. Hurricanehink 01:50, 21 March 2006 (UTC)


 * I really didn't like it going adjacent to the storms text. If it was made narrower it would fit there, however.  Feel free to play around with the formatting to find something that looks better. — jdorje (talk) 02:21, 21 March 2006 (UTC)


 * Actually, that was before you added pics. It's better now. Hurricanehink 02:24, 21 March 2006 (UTC)


 * I couldn't decide whether it was better to use the storm track or have no picture. We need more pictures for these storms... — jdorje (talk) 04:24, 21 March 2006 (UTC)


 * I guess the storm track is better than nothing, but only barely. More pictures would be great, but 1930 and 1780 don't have anything. Hurricanehink 12:37, 21 March 2006 (UTC)

Storms text
The text on storms that we have here should not just be a general overview of the storm. It should focus on the impact and particularly deaths. Maybe this is a problem for some storms that don't have articles and aren't well covered anywhere, but the season article should have the main storm histories for those storms. For this list we need to keep the text concise and tell where, how, and how many people were killed. — jdorje (talk) 02:22, 21 March 2006 (UTC)

What if.... ?
What if this article were changed to (or we created) that of List of Atlantic hurricanes by death toll. Yes, I am proposing listing every deadly Atlantic hurricane. It would be quite long, though it would be very useful. Thoughts? Hurricanehink ( talk ) 19:46, 21 December 2006 (UTC)


 * The WP:SIZE guideline says that science articles shouldn't be too long.Mitchazenia (8600+edits) 19:50, 21 December 2006 (UTC)


 * List articles are different, though. Hurricanehink ( talk ) 20:00, 21 December 2006 (UTC)

Fact Police
"The death toll from the Great Hurricane alone exceeds that for any other entire decade of Atlantic hurricanes." I researched that and found that, between 1995 and 2004 (a ten year period), 20,154 people were killed by tropical cyclones. This number includes those missing and pressumed dead and indirect deaths. Obviously, this is not an official number, but it's worth posting here seeing as the toll for the Great Hurricane is listed as 20,000-22,000. This stands on top of the fact that the Great Hurricane definatly wasn't deadlier than even its own season, let alone decade. -- § Hurricane E  RIC  archive 00:13, 22 September 2007 (UTC)

Hurricane Sandy is currently listed as killing 80,000-140,000 people, which is incredibly high and would put it at the top of the list. The real number seems closer to 100: http://earthsky.org/earth/who-died-during-hurricane-sandy-and-why — Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.112.240.150 (talk) 13:34, 22 May 2013 (UTC)

EPAC
So as i am refurbishing this article, i am wondering about including the tropical cyclones that have caused over 1000 deaths in the Eastern Pacific Basin and changing this lists title to List of deadliest Northern American hurricanes. The reasons for this include the fact that the only tropical cyclones known to have caused are/were in Mexico/Central America which is the same continent as this one.Jason Rees (talk) 12:44, 24 April 2014 (UTC)
 * You could say the same thing about WPAC versus NIO, which would be totally misleading, having Typhoon Nina and Nargis on the same page. ♫ Hurricanehink ( talk ) 18:09, 24 April 2014 (UTC)
 * Yeah you could say that but unfortunately in those basins there is more than a handful of systems of systems, that have caused 1000 odd deaths unlike the Eastern Pacific. Also i doubt it would be that misleading, to include the two systems that i am aware off.Jason Rees (talk) 18:41, 24 April 2014 (UTC)
 * I don't see any reason to, but I see no real reason not to either. YE Pacific  Hurricane 21:51, 24 April 2014 (UTC)

Earl
Can someone put hurricane earl 2016? It killed 67.Wyatt2049 (talk) 12:19, 29 September 2016 (UTC)
 * I'm afraid 67 is not enough for a system to be put on the list.Jason Rees (talk) 12:28, 29 September 2016 (UTC)
 * ok jason rees---Wyatt2049 (talk) 19:10, 11 October 2016 (UTC)

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Should the deadliest Atlantic hurricanes be in order in the HURDAT-era section?
There are now ranks for the deadliest hurricanes in the HURDAT-era section, but shouldn’t ranked-objects be in order instead of a timeline? The way it’s sorted may confuse readers and the section rank-by-rank may be easier for the reader to understand. HorsesARENice Ride me to my talk page 14:59, 6 October 2018 (UTC)
 * Not unless you can provide a source for such rankings.Jason Rees (talk) 22:20, 6 October 2018 (UTC)

Should Maria be included?
Maria is presently included in the list. Maria's official direct Puerto Rico death toll in near-real time was 65, but later studies have found much higher excess mortality, including the 2,975 total excess mortality by GWU described in the cited CBS news story. The National Hurricane Center report on Maria lists 81 direct dead and missing outside of Puerto Rico, if my math is correct, which when added to the 2,975 gives 3,056 rather than 3,057. Total excess mortality includes both direct and indirect deaths, but the Wikipedia article states that its list should only include "all known storms that caused at least 1,000 direct deaths". To my knowledge, there is not an authoritative updated estimate of direct deaths from Maria. That same excess mortality study found flaws in the identification of direct deaths on Puerto Rican death certificates. It's anybody's guess how many of the 2,975 excess Puerto Rico deaths were direct vs. indirect. One study that compared direct deaths with excess mortality in Florida hurricanes found that the vast majority of the excess mortality was indirect (McKinney et al. 2011). So it seems to me that, if she's included at all, Maria should be listed as possibly having 1000+ direct deaths, with a minimum of 81+65=144, and the mashup of 3,056 or 3,057 direct+indirect deaths should not be listed as though they're all direct deaths. Sorry about formatting/reference anomalies; I'm a very infrequent contributor. Nielsengammon (talk) 18:36, 29 November 2018 (UTC)

Proposal: Move this to List of the deadliest tropical cyclones, and keep the minimum at 1,000 deaths

 * The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion. 

The result of the move request was: No consensus to move, but there is some indication that the alternative of keeping this article's scope as is but augmenting it with the creation of additional list articles (proposed by Rreagan007 and seemingly now being undertaken by Hurricanethink) may satisfy the concerns of all participants here. (non-admin closure) Colin M (talk) 20:12, 21 February 2022 (UTC)

So there's no equivalent for this type of article in any other basin. The EPAC would only have two storms, the SHEM just three, but the WPAC and NIO would have a bunch. Most of the Atlantic ones can be easily sourced to the NHC deadliest storms list, but sources for the other basins might be trickier. Still, I think it is a worthy endeavor to have a more global approach, rather than just one basin. ♫ Hurricanehink ( talk ) 23:02, 8 February 2022 (UTC)
 * List of deadliest Atlantic hurricanes → List of the deadliest tropical cyclones
 * Strongly Support – Per the proposer. Our coverage of weather is really lacking in multiple areas, and we seriously need better documentation of the deadliest tropical cyclones. Either we should have a single page listing all of the deadliest cyclones, or we have one page for each basin's deadliest cyclones; I think I prefer the former. There isn't all that much on the deadliest Atlantic hurricanes page, so I think we can easily accommodate all of the deadliest tropical cyclones with 1,000+ deaths. I'm also making this an official RfC, to get more input on this discussion.  Light and Dark2000  🌀 (talk) 03:35, 9 February 2022 (UTC)
 * Oppose for now. As there are other articles such as List of costliest Atlantic hurricanes and List of Atlantic hurricane records that are essentially companion articles to this one, I'm not sure whether it's a good idea to broaden the scope of this article. I'd like to see someone actually make a new article at List of the deadliest tropical cyclones first and see how it goes. And then if appropriate, we can merge this article into it later. Rreagan007 (talk) 06:10, 9 February 2022 (UTC)
 * The costliest list is a bit different, given how many of the costliest storms have hit the United States. I'll work on a draft for the global deadliest TC's list. ♫ Hurricanehink ( talk ) 06:15, 9 February 2022 (UTC)


 * Support with the caveat that we add a "Basin" column. 🐔dat (talk) 12:16, 9 February 2022 (UTC)

Update - I'm working on the draft - Draft:List of the deadliest tropical cyclones. I removed the columns for intensity, since that doesn't directly have anything to do with the number of deaths. Look at Thelma, Winnie, and Washi in the WPAC. I have all of the storms of the 21st century (I just gotta get better sources for Washi and Durian), and I'd appreciate the help with the 20th century and earlier. ♫ Hurricanehink ( talk ) 00:24, 15 February 2022 (UTC)


 * Oppose and create articles for the other basins in addition to the overarching article – I feel these lists should contain some commentary as to why TCs were particularly deadly in parts of the world and what has caused TC deaths to trend downwards over time (and why this trend started later than others in some places), rather than just a table of statistics. Honestly this could be more suitable for the Tropical cyclones in [location] article series, but there'd be nowhere to fit global/basin-wide context into those – hence this proposal. ~ KN2731 {talk · contribs} 08:49, 17 February 2022 (UTC)

Merge with List of the deadliest tropical cyclones?
Well, I made the worldwide article like I said I was going to do, largely using this article as a basis. This article is redundant now. It could be reformatted to go on a country-by-country basis, but I don't think any lower of sub-division would be useful (sorry Hurricane Ike for being one of the deadliest hurricanes in Tennessee). Or this article could just be merged. Thoughts? ♫ Hurricanehink ( talk ) 16:23, 15 March 2022 (UTC)
 * I boldly redirected this article with the worldwide article. ♫ Hurricanehink ( talk ) 02:23, 16 April 2022 (UTC)