Talk:List of divided cities

Historical cities
They should be removed.

Nova Gorica/Gorizia
I doubt that these two can really be considered a divided city. The city of Nova Gorica was built after their division, as a "substitution" for Gorizia, which was ceded to Italy. When Gorizia was given to Italy, the region in the Slovenian part lost its regional entre and a new one was decided to be built. Nova Gorica was built on Solkansko polje, a flat and muddy area with little agricultural activity, next to Gorizia. But the city of Gorizia itself was never really divided.

Apart from the railway station, no notable buildings in the city of Gorizia remained on the Slovenian side, not to my knowledge at least.

Also, unlike many others, these two cities were always in good terms. An example is the "Marathon of Friendship" organized between the cities every year, even when Slovenia was still a part of communist Yugoslavia. I have to admit that lately I haven't heard of it (there never was as much cooperation as there is today though), but I did a history project on it a few years ago. edolen1 17:18, 10 March 2006 (UTC)

Rome?
Any reason Rome is not listed? It's in two states. Or is this not the concept of "divided cities" the article has in mind? Anorak2 14:07, 14 March 2006 (UTC)


 * Added, thanks. · Naive cynic · 12:48, 11 September 2006 (UTC)


 * I'm not so sure this should be in the list. The Vatican City is a national entity entirely surrounded by the city of Rome, but it is not legally part of Rome or of Italy.  The city of Rome excludes the area occupied by the Vatican City.  Rome is in one country only, Italy.  --  JackofOz 06:17, 4 June 2007 (UTC)


 * That argument is somewhat circular. Any divided city is by definition in two states and two separate administrative units (e.g. municipalities or whatever). If we applied your logic rigidly, we'd have to say divided cities don't exist because in all cases they are legally separate.


 * People think of such cities "as one", because they were historially part of an integrated settlement, despite the fact that a state border was drawn across it at some later stage because of some historical accident. In this sense, most people think of the Vatican as part of Rome, because its territory has been considered part of that city for approx 1,200 years. The state border between it and "the rest" of Rome was drawn a mere 80 years ago. Anorak2 13:50, 4 June 2007 (UTC)


 * Fair point. Thanks.  --  JackofOz 11:31, 7 June 2007 (UTC)

Definition
_ _ What is the basis for stating this definition? IMO the natural topic of cities straddling a border does not hinge on having had a common government at one time, but on having as much social and economic integration as would be expected of a single city, in spite of a border that impedes governmental integration. Texarkana lks here but describes a history that AFAI can see suggests social and economic integration occuring despite a pre-existing border. The two Kansas Citys, in Missouri and Kansas, may be another example, and Mystic, Connecticut, partly in Groton and partly in Stonington IIRCC is likely to be. _ _ My point is not that the dictionary definition admirably included in the lead sentence may not give the definition right, but that i doubt there is a clear enuf established expression to justify a single dictdef. This topic may call for an article that treats a topic too seldom discusssed to have --Jerzy•t 18:16, 2 November 2006 (UTC)
 * on one hand either of two histories (division at a point in time vs. joint growth despite a prior barrier to formal integration) as a focus, or
 * on the other, an short unambiguous name as a phenomenon.

Merge with Cross-border town naming
This article and Cross-border town naming appear to be covering the same territory (pun intended). I propose they be merged. TiffaF 07:44, 4 December 2006 (UTC)

Both articles are defective, partly out of lack of awareness of the researchers/writers of various places and situations and partly because some divided towns, especially with different names for each side, grow apart over time. Thus while Pyatskuny/Norviliskes (Belarus/Lithuania) has (now) some mutual access for divided families, tourists and others are generally unable to cross.

A quick look did not show Rock Island (Stansted) QC/Derby Line VT, yet there's a Wiki page for the Haskell Free Library & Opera House and the national border runs down the center of its reading room. As for St-Gingolph (Valais CH/Haute Savoie FR) I discussed the "degree of separation" with the respective town halls. There isn't much separation commercially (most of the shops are in France) but unlike pre-War there are few or no cross-border marriages anymore because the Swiss take the train to school 20 km or more away to the south and the French teens take a bus towards Evian.

Another interesting, but omitted, category is divided tribal communities. With respect to USA/Canada, the Jay Treaty preserves immigration and tax-free rights. But the Tohono O'odham and other US-Mexican cross-border tribes get no such rights, and with the "sealing off" of the southern US border they have serious problems - at least those not born in a US hospital (midwives' birth certifications are questioned by the US authorities after some frauds came to light).

Lists are nice, but every item deserves a story in itself and I'm afraid Wiki is hit-or-miss on that score. Particularly since much that would be contributed is local lore not otherwise published on the Internet. I don't write for Wiki for that reason: I have crates of PhD research stuff and it's just too much trouble to justify a statement that I know to be true but that absent a reference (and sometimes even with a reference) will be deleted by "editors". As is their right. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Andygx (talk • contribs) 08:05, 20 December 2009 (UTC)

Divided city category.
Why is Berlin part of the Category:Divided City but Jerusalem isn't? I would have though both should be. --Peter cohen 14:08, 18 June 2007 (UTC)

Qorasuv
And what about Qorasuv and Kara-Suu? These cities have similar names and divided by border.-- Anatoliy  ( Talk ) 20:16, 6 February 2009 (UTC)

Kehl/Strasbourg
I think this pair of cities should not be part of this list. Historically, Kehl was only part of Strasbourg during the Nazi occupation of Alsace. So they are not one city divided into two parts, but two cities which were temporary merged. I will remove them from the list. --Hansbaer2 (talk) 08:27, 24 July 2009 (UTC)

Kansas City/Texarkana
I'm not sure Kansas City Missouri/Kansas should be on the list. Granted, they do, for all practical purposes, constitute a "divided city" insofar as they are contiguous to one another, share the same name, and together form nucleous for a single metropoliatin entitity. However, the definition provided for a "divided city" would seem to require that they constituted a single entity in some time in the past. I don't think this is the case with Kansas City. If I recall correctly, the establishment of the border between Kansas and Missouri preceeded the founding of either Kansas City, Kansas or Kansas City, Missouri. Thus, they have never consituted a single entity.

I'm not sure, but I think the same may be the case for Texarkana Texas/Arkansas.Johnsonkurtis (talk) 02:45, 20 September 2010 (UTC)


 * That leaves the question of whether sub-national borders are within the scope of this list, for instance New York/Newark. This also risks becoming a list of every pair of border towns along the line. K7L (talk) 13:12, 12 August 2013 (UTC)


 * K7L's point can be answered by restricting this page to cities which currently have, or once had, a united government. Listing suburbs of a metropolitan area seems very silly to me in this context. Getting back to Kansas City (which I'm NOT very familiar with) I see it as very similar to Niagara Falls: Two cities which were never a single unit, but which are so close geographically, and so similar sociologically, that the residents consider it a single city in all ways except legal and political. Keeves (talk) 14:24, 18 September 2013 (UTC)


 * I can speak for KC at least. The cultures of eastern Kansas and western Missouri are nearly indistinguishable from each other. However the cultural difference between Kansas City, Kansas and Kansas CIty, Missouri has historically been vast. KCK has been, historically, primarily an industrial district with some suburban "streetcar" style suburbs as you move away from the city center. The confusion that they are a single city comes from the choice of the founders of KCK to name that city after Kansas City, Missouri in the hopes that investors back east would invest in the already recognized name. So it really comes down to how you define city. As governmental units, absolute difference. As the "built up" or "urban" area they are absolutely one city along with all of the other inner and outer ring suburbs within the metropolitan area. Grey Wanderer (talk) 17:43, 18 September 2013 (UTC)

Tornio/Haparanda
Finnish/Swedish Tornio/Haparanda is listed under "United cities that were divided". I think it should be removed! Haparanda was not founded until after the Swedish/Russian border was installed in the area. -- Innocent bystander (talk) 07:09, 2 May 2017 (UTC)

El Paso/Ciudad Juarez
This cities are listed on the "Formerly united cities that were divided" but then they are also mentioned on the "Cities that arose next to each other across a boundary line" — Preceding unsigned comment added by 190.229.147.190 (talk) 23:13, 7 March 2020 (UTC)

Belfast
Should Belfast in Northern Ireland not be added here? 95.141.18.12 (talk) 00:07, 30 August 2022 (UTC)