Talk:List of entertainers who died during a performance

Misleading
Might be best just to delete the sentence in the first section saying "The following list excludes deaths involving stunt persons as they are listed separately." The list DOES include some deaths involving stunt persons. Also, the link points to the article Stunt where there is no list of deaths involving stunt persons. In that article Stunts that have gone wrong has only a link pointing to List of Film Accidents. --OctaviaGraystone (talk) 00:50, 20 January 2020 (UTC)

Lully
"1687: Jean-Baptiste Lully, French composer. Lully was conducting a Te Deum in honor of Louis XIV's recent recovery from illness. He was beating time by banging a long staff (a precursor to the baton) against the floor, as was the common practice at the time, when he struck his toe, creating an abscess. The wound turned gangrenous, but Lully refused to have his toe amputated and the gangrene spread resulting in his death two months later."

This is not dying in public.

Entry removal
I am removing entries that consists of those who died during filming as that does not mean dying in front of the audience unless it wass done so. Donnie Park (talk) 16:55, 19 October 2009 (UTC)
 * I am going have to say that indiscriminate sums up this list and you know what I am thinking... Donnie Park (talk) 17:04, 19 October 2009 (UTC)

Um
I am the one who created this article, and it has been completely changed. This article was originally titled "list of people who died onstage". I explained that this included deaths while performing, whether at a TV show rehearsal or shooting or film shooting, or during a public performance. That was strictly explained. I did not intend for it to be about "dying in public". That is something different. Don't change the entire purpose of an article. It is what it is. It will be reverted back to its original state soon.--Rebelkass (talk) 17:57, 20 October 2009 (UTC)
 * I say go for it, it will save me from having to put this in AfD, IMO "list of people who died in public" is indiscriminate to me. Although I am not a performing arts person, I always believe that dying onstage dosen't mean dying during filming a TV or movie unless it is a live audience, it means dying in on stage. Donnie Park (talk) 10:38, 21 October 2009 (UTC)
 * How about the title list of people who died during a live performance, as that original title narrows it down to just theatre and concert performance. Donnie Park (talk) 10:45, 21 October 2009 (UTC)

Requested move

 * The following discussion is an archived discussion of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section. 

Moved. If any editor believes that this article should be deleted, that needs to be a discussion at AfD and not here. Vegaswikian (talk) 08:09, 26 November 2009 (UTC)

List of people who died in public → list of actors and musicians who died during a live performance — The aim of this list, as revision history shows, it had gone away from what it originally was to being also about people dying on live television, people dying on the street and sportspeople dying in a sporting event (which a list exist for that), also this proposal aims to keep this list less indiscriminate, mainly to keep anything other than sports separate from this list and to keep this list to what it was originally was, about actors and musicians who died during a performance. --Donnie Park (talk) 19:31, 19 November 2009 (UTC)


 * Delete trivia, and the current title would include, oh millions and millions of people, anyone who died on a street, in a televised or photographed battle, in a televised flood, televised plane crash, an earthquake in a public area... if someone committed suicide by jumping off a public bridge, anyone who got lost on public lands and then died... 76.66.197.2 (talk) 05:18, 20 November 2009 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

Still confusing
John Hughes (on the list) died while walking on the sidewalk in Manhattan years after he retired from show business to become a farmer.

On the other hand, Carmen Miranda (not on the list) can be seen in a 1955 clip experiencing a heart attack before the live studio audience of The Jimmy Durante Show. She died later that evening after a second heart attack. Pepso2 (talk) 07:00, 3 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Its upto you to do something about it, thats what Wikipedia is for. Donnie Park (talk) 19:28, 3 December 2009 (UTC)


 * After more than 15,000 edits, I'm beginning to slow down. I did add Lee Morgan, since it seems being murdered during a performance makes for an entry of note. Pepso2 (talk) 21:32, 3 December 2009 (UTC)

I am a little confused about how inclusive this list should be. Karl Wallenda is listed, but the 1962 accident that killed two members of his family during a circus performance is not. If you open it up to circus type acts, there would be many more, such as Lester John Parker, killed in 1975 while performing on the sway pole at a fair.

Are sports figures considered entertainers? Ray Chapman died shortly after being hit in the head by a pitch in a baseball game. Numerous race car drivers have died in accidents during races (I checked and there is a huge list of motorsport deaths, so they probably shouldn’t be added here). — Preceding unsigned comment added by Hank Gillette (talk • contribs) 17:09, 16 October 2015 (UTC)

Owen Hart
Shouldn't Owen Hart be on the list? He fell over 70 feet during Over the Edge (1999) and died on arrival to the hospital in Kansas City, Missouri. I'll be happy to add him but under your discretion though. --Geekboy6 (talk) 05:22, 7 January 2010 (UTC)

Heath Ledger
Didn't he die during filming of a movie back in early 2008 or 2009 (forgot which year)? Can someone add this please? Thanks.
 * But he didn't die during a performance, or even while filming a scene. -- kosboot (talk) 11:09, 13 September 2010 (UTC)

Giuseppe Sinopoli
Sinopoli died in 2001 while conducting Verdi's Aida. Should he not be included? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 220.253.236.192 (talk) 08:38, 13 September 2010 (UTC)

~Garfield Turtle Anime~ (talk) 19:42, 17 January 2010 (UTC) Hajiru

title needs changing, or a lot of trimming needed
"Entertainers" means something. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 208.127.183.159 (talk) 18:56, 14 March 2010 (UTC)
 * Yes, I don't understand why journalists and news presenters are included here in a list of entertainers, rather than in their own list. The Sanity Inspector (talk) 13:28, 15 July 2010 (UTC)

Technically, this list is wrong.....
A lot of these deaths did not technically happen "while performing." Many of the causes that led to death happened while the individual was performing, but they died at a later time. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.201.52.8 (talk) 15:17, 17 November 2010 (UTC)

2006: Academic Craig Ewert
Is this entry really appropriate? He was not an entertainer. Also, a documentary is not really a "performance"69.212.127.84 (talk) 20:14, 28 May 2012 (UTC)

ADD LISA "LEFT EYE" LOPES
Lisa died in a car accident which was on tape when she died, and that clip was added to The Last Days of Left Eye, I dont know if she was bored and they just decided to tape it or she was filming for the documentary  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.227.249.80 (talk) 16:26, 4 July 2012 (UTC)

Journalist and Reporter
Journalist and Reporter should be removed from the list because they are not performers in a strict sense. If they are to be included, why are many journalists killed in war zone during reporting not listed? --218.102.143.202 (talk) 19:58, 23 October 2012 (UTC)

During while performing, not right after
I removed Eric Morecambe, who had a heart attack right *after* a performance and died; he was listed mostly because he had joked during the show that he didn't want to die onstage like Tommy Cooper. The key to this article is that it happens during a show/rehearsal - DavidWBrooks (talk) 13:45, 11 November 2012 (UTC)

Title says 'performance', not rehearsal. The interest here is in those that died 'publicly' and not during a private rehearsal. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 79.64.3.212 (talk) 19:14, 18 March 2017 (UTC)

Non-entertainer public figures
It seems to me that the various academics, writers, journalists, and politicians, etc., that are on this list should be removed, as they are not "entertainers." I propose that the relatively small number of affected entries be split off into a separate list, "List of public figures who died during a media appearance." --DavidK93 (talk) 16:56, 29 April 2013 (UTC)

Roy Kinnear
According to Wikipedia article http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roy_Kinnear the actor died in 1988 falling from a horse while filming a scene for The Return of the Musketeers. He was admitted to hospital and died the next day from a heart attack. The film's director Richard Lester retired as a result of this death. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.175.151.185 (talk) 13:35, 12 December 2013 (UTC)

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Raphael Schumacher
I have removed Raphael Schumacher because he is not notable in any sense. No one cared about him before his death and unless something notable comes from his death he remains non-notable as per WP:BLP1E.McMatter (talk)/(contrib) 22:30, 7 February 2016 (UTC)
 * He is notable because he has received significant media coverage. Sei un esperto di teatro italiano? Do you understand that his death is a major international news story? There is no reason he should not have a single sentence here. Look at the other people on this list who do not have their own articles. How many entertainers are constantly dying on stage that we must be so very vigilant and selective about this list? Who are all these non-notable entertainers constantly dropping dead during their performances? —Мандичка YO 😜 22:46, 7 February 2016 (UTC)
 * Perhaps what you guys need to do then is create List of deaths of entertainers during performances as then I would agree this would fall into that list. From day one this list was supposed to be about notable entertainers who died while performing. By lowering the bar to include any death on stage we open the flood gates for any on stage death to be included in a list which was designed to only show notable entertainers' death during a performance, now it is any death with news coverage while on stage. I agree the death would meet the criteria for a list, just not this one.McMatter (talk)/(contrib) 14:39, 8 February 2016 (UTC)
 * The AFD for Raphael Schumacher (Articles for deletion/Raphael Schumacher) included the recommendation that mention should be here, with a redirect. There were several requestes to WP:REFUND this article due to the new appearances. However we rejected the undelete requests. If there was a List of deaths of entertainers during performances page it would just be a superset of this page, and quite mergable. So I would recommend that the scope be changed to include notable deaths, not just notable performers. Graeme Bartlett (talk) 02:47, 10 February 2016 (UTC)
 * So there are 2 things which need to be discussed. Item 1 do we expand this list to included all notable deaths while performing regardless of performer's notability. Personally I am not a fan of ambiguous lists which can become to big to be effective, which I'm afraid this can be if we lower the bar to notable deaths, WP:LISTPEOPLE speaks to this. Item 2 is whether this death is notable which I actually now believe is not notable enough for inclusion in Wikipedia. If we look at WP:EVENTCRIT the last point states "Routine kinds of news events (including most crimes, accidents, deaths, celebrity or political news, "shock" news, stories lacking lasting value such as "water cooler stories," and viral phenomena) – whether or not tragic or widely reported at the time – are usually not notable unless something further gives them additional enduring significance." This story is a shock story about a tragic death but I see no enduring significance beyond this initial story, this event in my opinion is not notable. The primary reason for a list is not to act as a collection of information indiscriminately but to provide links for further research through use of wikilinks, this entry would provide none as there is nothing notable about him, the theater or his death. McMatter (talk)/(contrib) 00:08, 11 February 2016 (UTC)

Title does not indicate a requirement for the person to be notable - just that they died on stage during a live performance. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 79.64.3.212 (talk) 19:09, 18 March 2017 (UTC)

Michael Fallows - Millom
Just another one for the record which could go somewhere round here - but I can't find accurate details :(

Person: Michael Fallows

Place: Millom Palladium, St. George's Road

Date: ? Late 1980s / early 1990s

COD: Heart attack (?) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 79.64.3.212 (talk) 19:06, 18 March 2017 (UTC)

Definitions
It appears that this page would benefit from some definitions - so here are my suggestions:


 * Entertainer: A person presenting a presentation to an audience.
 * Performance: The act a person carries out while making a presentation to an audience.
 * Died during...: The person was seen to die by the audience & declared dead before being moved from the place they died.
 * Audience: A group of people not connected to the production of the performance and invited to witness the performance. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 79.64.3.212 (talk) 19:31, 18 March 2017 (UTC)

Dick Shawn
This article has several concerns; but I'll just take issue with one in particular: Dick Shawn. Dick Shawn suffered a fatal heart attack and died on stage. He lay there several minutes (only one audience member reported that it "seemed" like it must have been as long as 5 minutes; another said it was closer to 20 mins). The stage manager actually came out several times to check on him, and audience members made comments such as: "Take his wallet" and "How long is this going to go on?". Dick Shawn's own article on WP confirms this, as well as obits. The doctor at UC the performance unsuccessfully performed CPR until the medics got there, but Shawn was "officially" pronounced dead at Scripps hospital. The Times does not mention "hitting his head" nor does it state that he "suffered a heart attack later at the hospital". Furthermore, the source that is cited is far from reliable. I am removing the source and updating the content. Maineartists (talk) 01:43, 22 August 2017 (UTC)

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... or thereafter
I've added "or thereafter as a consequence of an event during the performance" to the lead sentence, to reflect what's on the list. If that's not what we want, then some people need to be removed from the list, e.g.:


 * William Elsworth Robinson died the following day
 * Bert Williams died a week later
 * Memo Morales died in the ambulance
 * Bruce Hampton died later at hospital
 * Yann Arnaud died later at a local hospital


 * Shouldnt really the basis of the page is that they actually died during the performance, not just after it. MilborneOne (talk) 11:08, 1 April 2018 (UTC)
 * I don't care either way, but the lead sentence and the contents should be consistent. (Ideally the article title should also be consistent, but brevity might take precedence of literal meaning.) As said, if we limit to people who died during the performance, we need to delete a few of the entries. Perhaps we need more input as to what the scope should be - I see it has been raised a few times in the past, but there's no indication of consensus either way. Mitch Ames (talk) 11:40, 1 April 2018 (UTC)


 * I think the "died during a performance" in the title shows the consensus. MilborneOne (talk) 11:51, 1 April 2018 (UTC)

Removal of Christina Grimmie's entry?
Regardless of definition of died 'during' a performance people are talking about when a person dies in the hospital a bit later, a autograph signing is not a performance. Should it be removed?4.15.105.218 (talk) 15:46, 22 May 2019 (UTC)


 * Should be removed as it was not during an actual performance. MilborneOne (talk) 15:48, 22 May 2019 (UTC)


 * Fabulous. But neither should these be included stating the same principle: Jon-Erik Hexum (he was not "entertaining"), Jane Dornacker (not an "entertainer entertaining"), Mehmood Faiz (no article or source), M.N. Vijayan ("entertainer entertaining"? debatable), Mango (did not die on stage ... died the next day), John Taylor (did not die at the venue) ... The title of this article is "List of entertainers who died during a performance". WP editors have stretched this to its limit: "during a performance" is where you and I disagree" and so do many who have allowed the entries into this article. The entertainer in question was at that location due to a performance and was still "entertaining" as a performer (signing autographs): if you include Jon-Erik Hexum who was not performing or entertaining, or M.N. Vijayan who is neither an entertainer nor performing, one must allow this inclusion based on what constitutes a "performer" still acting as a performer and entertaining for their fan base. Maineartists (talk) 22:11, 28 May 2019 (UTC)


 * If these do not meet the inclusion criteria they should be removed. MilborneOne (talk) 08:51, 29 May 2019 (UTC)


 * Likewise, for the same reason renowned Indian professor and academic Rita Jitendra, who died live on television during an interview, is not listed in this article; listings such as the Dick Cavett entry in this article should also be removed. Sorry, but once you open up that can, the "non-entertaining" worms must be removed. Maineartists (talk) 16:42, 29 May 2019 (UTC)