Talk:List of entertainment events at Civic Arena (Pittsburgh, PA)

Add a show
Please add that U2 performed on October 22nd, 2005

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hOsOv2vmz20&ab_channel=U2start

https://u2tours.com/tours/concert/mellon-arena-pittsburgh-oct-22-2005

Thomasthedarkenguine (talk) 20:00, 1 August 2023 (UTC)


 * This would be a better source than any of those, I think? It's from The Province. Valereee (talk) 22:44, 1 August 2023 (UTC)
 * Thank you for your assistance Thomasthedarkenguine (talk) 22:47, 1 August 2023 (UTC)
 * The changes are not supported by neutral, independent, reliable sources. Please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made.  's source did not state that U2 performed on October 22nd, 2005. While your sources are not reliable. Lightoil (talk) 02:55, 2 August 2023 (UTC)
 * how about some concert reviews instead, will that be ok? Thomasthedarkenguine (talk) 23:37, 2 August 2023 (UTC)
 * Depends on where they're from. The Province or some other Vancouver newspaper, yes. Some random bloggy concert review site, no. Or you could decide whether the exact date is crucial, throw away the exact date, and use The Province to support they performed in 2005. Valereee (talk) 00:10, 3 August 2023 (UTC)
 * Ok, because I had this in mind but I'm uncertain and I would like a second opinion Thomasthedarkenguine (talk) 02:40, 3 August 2023 (UTC)
 * That's a fan site. While about-self/affiliated can be used for certain noncontroversial details, why would you use one when you've got a reliable source in The Province? Valereee (talk) 15:23, 4 August 2023 (UTC)
 * Because Lightoil said The Province didn't confirm they performed on that day. I would say the YouTube source I put is probably the most reliable because it was from that tour and I heard Bono say "Pittsburgh" multiple times in that video. Don't get me wrong, I thought The Province was excellent. Thomasthedarkenguine (talk) 18:27, 4 August 2023 (UTC)
 * Maybe this one might help Thomasthedarkenguine (talk) 18:37, 4 August 2023 (UTC)
 * Also perhaps you may have pages mixed up but this is the Vancouver problem which then The Province is relevant. But unfortunately The Province isn't relevant for this show. Thomasthedarkenguine (talk) 18:31, 4 August 2023 (UTC)
 * Yes, I had the pages mixed up, sorry, but the problem on both is the same: YouTube is almost never a reliable source for anything -- literally anyone can post anything there -- and listening for Bono to say "Pittsburgh" is original research. Flickr is not a reliable source; literally anyone could post a photo, incorrectly say it's October 22 2005 in Pittsburgh, and hit publish. The Province doesn't help here, but you need to find something similarly reliable for this information you want to add.
 * I'm afraid these discussions are demonstrating why you shouldn't be editing directly. You still don't seem to be understanding what is and isn't a reliable source. You need to go spend significant time reading about WP:reliable sources. This is the exact problem you were blocked for, and which you said you now understood.
 * I would say it might not be a bad idea for you to adopt a rule for yourself: If it's not listed in green at WP:RSNP, you should stay away from it. That's unfortunately going to rule out a ton of reliable sources that haven't been discussed multiple times at WT:RS -- such as The Province, for example -- but it might help you learn to distinguish the difference. Valereee (talk) 12:58, 7 August 2023 (UTC)
 * Well what if its a review in a Pittsburgh newspaper? Will that work? Additionally on Flickr I saw the datestamp on the photo say "Oct 22 2005" which makes me think "if it'snot there then what other notable concerts from around the world took place?"Thomasthedarkenguine (talk) 03:26, 8 August 2023 (UTC)
 * Heres a source I found from the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette. This talks about the tour in general and mentioned it stopped by the Mellon Arena (what it was called at the time being) "last October" this newspaper was from December 20th, 2005. Thomasthedarkenguine (talk) 03:39, 8 August 2023 (UTC)
 * Trying to figure it out by datestamps is original research, which we don't do here. The Pittsburgh Post-Gazette, like most major-city newspapers, is a reliable source. It's behind a paywall for me, but if it says in December 2005 that the tour was in October, we can add "October 2005" to the article. Valereee (talk) 12:59, 8 August 2023 (UTC)
 * Oh, wait, I can get it through Newspapers.com...I don't see where it says "last October" or mentions Mellon? Valereee (talk) 13:08, 8 August 2023 (UTC)
 * Are you talking about the "Reality Check" article that starts with the heading U2 Earns Top Dollar? Valereee (talk) 13:10, 8 August 2023 (UTC)
 * I have one more.
 * https://www.newspapers.com/image/96600557/?terms=%22U2%22%20%22vertigo%22%20%22mellon%22&match=19
 * This is the best I've got that isn't original research. This is from a couple days prior to the show. Thomasthedarkenguine (talk) 17:35, 8 August 2023 (UTC)
 * We can't use stuff that was published prior to the show. It has to be after. Valereee (talk) 18:00, 8 August 2023 (UTC)
 * I take it back, here's one more Thomasthedarkenguine (talk) 17:46, 8 August 2023 (UTC)
 * The WYEP (which is a radio station) is a RS and gives the full date. We can add based on that. Valereee (talk) 17:53, 8 August 2023 (UTC)
 * I've added it. Valereee (talk) 17:58, 8 August 2023 (UTC)
 * thank you so much Valereee, again you are my favorite wikipedian. Thomasthedarkenguine (talk) 18:45, 8 August 2023 (UTC)
 * Thanks, but there are any number of other editors who are as or more helpful! Valereee (talk) 18:57, 8 August 2023 (UTC)
 * To be honest helpful is hard to find on this website. Thomasthedarkenguine (talk) 00:08, 15 August 2023 (UTC)
 * Also I don't see datestamps under "original research" on No original research. Thomasthedarkenguine (talk) 17:42, 8 August 2023 (UTC)
 * You can discuss with others at WP:ORN whether datestamps on Flickr photos is original research or not, per the exceptions for routine calculation. They're the experts. Unless they agree it's not, for me it's OR. Valereee (talk) 17:54, 8 August 2023 (UTC)

Add a show J. Geils
Please add that J. Geils Band performed on August 21, 1982 as part of the Freeze-Frame Tour. Here's the source in question from The Pittsburgh Press Thomasthedarkenguine (talk) 23:08, 8 August 2023 (UTC)


 * here's a better source"Wolf hasn't prowled a Pittsburgh stage as J. Geils singer since Aug. 21, 1982, at the Civic Arena". Thomasthedarkenguine (talk) 02:53, 10 August 2023 (UTC)
 * I would say that the "better" source is pretty poor. First, as far as I can tell, concertarchives.org is user generated content. It appears that anyone with an account can write anything they want on that site, and the site's About page doesn't indicate that there is any editorial oversight. Second, the page you link to is just an image, purportedly of an advertisement by Saratoga Performing Arts Center, but anyone could cobble together a similar image that says anything and upload it. Nothing verifies that the image is what it purports to be. I wonder why you think this source is better than the first one, from the Pittsburgh Press? CodeTalker (talk) 02:15, 12 August 2023 (UTC)
 * @CodeTalker The "better source" was supposed to have a different link and I will go a my bad on that one, I mean the show is already listed but I'll still put the source I intended to put right here. Thanks for pointing that out, what went from me saying I have some decent knowledge with articles assisting me now turned into a learning experience that I should make sure the link is for what was intended for as I was sending the link from concertarchives.org to my father and forgot about it but again thanks for pointing it out. Thomasthedarkenguine (talk) 00:06, 15 August 2023 (UTC)
 * ✅, added. Thanks for the Pittsburgh Press source. ~Anachronist (talk) 17:25, 14 August 2023 (UTC)

Add a show Madonna
According to this Madonna performed at the arena on May 28, 1985 on the Virgin Tour. With the Beastie Boys as opening acts. Thomasthedarkenguine (talk) 23:37, 8 August 2023 (UTC)


 * Actually it looks like it just says 1985. Where are you getting May 28? Valereee (talk) 13:41, 23 August 2023 (UTC)
 * Let's just use this website again. Thomasthedarkenguine (talk) 15:35, 23 August 2023 (UTC)
 * That's 404. Valereee (talk) 15:50, 23 August 2023 (UTC)
 * Well now I'm sad, I found a website that was like a Bible (metaphor) and now it's 404. Now I know how Willie Nelson felt during his IRS raid. Thomasthedarkenguine (talk) 15:53, 23 August 2023 (UTC)
 * You had the right URL? If so, check wayback machine. (And FFR, you can ask wayback to archive an URL.) Valereee (talk) 16:04, 23 August 2023 (UTC)
 * For a slight second I forgot Wayback machine existed. Thomasthedarkenguine (talk) 16:13, 23 August 2023 (UTC)

Add Shows Van Halen
According to this Van Halen has performed numerous times

First one: April 30, 1980 Van Halen World Invasion Tour

Second one: July 14, 1981 Fair Warning Tour

Third one: November 1, 1982 Hide Your Sheep Tour

Fourth one: March 7, 1984 1984 Tour

Fifth one: May 13, 1986 5150 Tour

Sixth one: April 30, 2008 Van Halen 2007–2008 North American Tour. Thomasthedarkenguine (talk) 23:10, 12 August 2023 (UTC)


 * If you'll create the tables here or in your sandbox as you want it to be, it would make it easier for people to simply copy/paste. Editing tables in source is all way too fiddly for me. Valereee (talk) 13:46, 23 August 2023 (UTC)
 * I'll do that once I get on my laptop. Thomasthedarkenguine (talk) 15:37, 23 August 2023 (UTC)

Add Shows Bruce Springsteen
Let's use this again

November 30, 1980/December 1, 1980: The River Tour

March 20, 1988: Tunnel of Love Express Tour

December 16, 1992: Bruce Springsteen 1992–1993 World Tour

December 4, 2002: The Rising Tour

November 14, 2007: Magic Tour

May 19, 2009: Working on a Dream Tour Thomasthedarkenguine (talk) 23:23, 12 August 2023 (UTC)


 * Ditto. Create it here or in your sandbox and someone can just copy it over instead of having to edit the tables in source. Valereee (talk) 13:47, 23 August 2023 (UTC)